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Old 09-12-2009, 05:38 AM   #1
cathar
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Default Curious Case of Criminal Last Names/My 1st Post

Thirty years ago I was looking through the NEW DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES by Elsdon C. Smith and happened to glance at an open newspaper which had an article about serial killers.Long story shortver the next few weeks I came to realize that there is a statistical probability that murderers have one of the following last name meanings.
[1]dweller in or near a swamp,marsh,moor,or waste land.
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest/[3]dweller on uncultivated or barren land./[4]dweller in a deep valley or hollow.
Examples:Richard Speck:One who came from Speke[brushwood] in Lancashire.
Kissingerne who came from Kissing[swamp]in Germany.
Cheneyne who came from Chaney[oak grove] in France.

Bush:dweller on uncultivated ground.

>the above IS NOT A JOKE!! all questions will be answered..there is more to this than what's on the page.

Last edited by cathar; 09-12-2009 at 09:51 PM. Reason: no one is resbonding
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Old 15-12-2009, 11:58 AM   #2
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interesting.
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Old 15-12-2009, 03:11 PM   #3
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Palin:dweller near a swamp or marsh...Sarah's maiden name is Heathne who came from Heath,waste land with low schrubs..these people tend to marry each other the term "BEYOND THE PALE" comes from thes word meaning..

Want more? just ask.
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Old 27-12-2009, 11:57 PM   #4
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Another strange dynamic to this Last Name Meaning business is that many of the gun fighters of the old west have last names that originated in West Riding in Yorkshire,which is where some of the battles between the Scots and Crown armies took place.The battle that the Stewart forces lost {Bonnie Prince Charly**resulted in the deportation of many on the losing side to America.So you see where I'm going with this...Racial memory? Fighting spirit in the DNA? There is something going on here but I haven't got all the puzzle pieces put together..
I do know that ghosts tend to inhabit wet areas more than dry areas...so I'm thinking some sort of generational spirit possesion.I do think that the worst sort of killers are possesed because the nature of some of their crimes is "beyond belief" What other explaination is there.
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Old 29-12-2009, 01:25 AM   #5
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Ok, i thought i should look into this to see how accurate it is. I found a site that lists the top 10 most evil serial killers

1. Gilles de Rais. Pays de Retz is a historic area of France that lies between the southern shore of the Loire estuary and the Marais breton (Breton marshes). His father was Guy de Laval-Montmorency. Montmorency if French for the Morello cherry, which is a cultivated form of the sour cherry. Also Morello is associated with a . Looks like a good explanation for this guy.

2. Richard Trenton Chase. Chase, in geographic terms, refers to a wild area of wetland, heath or grassland usually reserved for hunting. Similar to the Royal Forest. This theory is looking good.

3. Jeffrey Dahmer. The name Dahmer comes from the German Dahme. Its the name of a river, town and district in the Brandenburg state.
Quote:
The Dahme river is a tributary of the Spree. It forms many lakes in the northern part of the district.
Assuming the many lakes in this part of the district makes the land here marshy then it looks like your theory may be right again.

4. Albert Fish. It might work here if we cast the net a bit further (excuse the pun), to include wildlife that dwell in wild watery places. Also fish could relate to hunting, i.e. fishing, in or near marshes. A maybe.

5. Andrei Chikatilo. Sorry can't find my Russian-English dictionary and online translators are no good so until we find the meaning of the root to his name can't say anything.

6. Joachim Kroll. Kroll has two possible origins. One explanation give this name an origin related to king. But I was suprised to read that another explanation is "groll" which means grassy bank.

7. Dennis Rader. This one is tough. It has two meanings, one is occupational meaning wheelwright, flour sifter or army counselor. The other is habitational, belonging to the places Rödern, Röderau or one of various places in Germany and Austria named Rode. Need to know more specifically which place if it is the latter.

8. John George Haigh. Derives from Old English Haga, Old Norse Hagi, Norman La Hague meaning "dweller by the haw".

9. Javed Iqbal Mughal. Javed = eternal, Iqbal = prosperity, Mughal = from Mughal dynasty, Turkic ruling family with Mongol roots. Family names dont seem to be hereditary here as they are commonly found throughout south asian and muslim communities. However after reading his wikipedia entry there seems to be doubts that he was responsible.
Quote:
This is disputed now because 26 of the children he claimed to have killed were found alive after his death. The case stands officially closed but allegedly not well investigated.
This case doesn't apply here.

10. Ted Bundy. A variant of Bond. From the ME Bunda meaning peasant farmer. Probably ultimately derived from OE buende, a dweller. Of course Farmers farm on various types of land including barren land and valleys, and a farmer is a type of tamer or cultivator of wild land. Given its specifically a peasant farmer then i assume it wouldn't be the best land they would be farming.

So out of the 9 examples (I'm excluding Javed Iqbal since his name isn't hereditary and since there is doubt towards his guilt), your theory is correct for 6 of them, (De Rais, Chase, Dahmer, Kroll, Haigh and Bundy) maybe for one (Fish) and need more information for the other two (Chikatilo and Rader).
Not bad, you may be onto something there.
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Old 29-12-2009, 05:36 AM   #6
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whats my last name mean?
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Old 29-12-2009, 06:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathar View Post
[2]dweller in a grove of trees or forest
Similar to my first name, which means of the forest or forest dweller.
I haven't killed anyone, I don't think.
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Old 29-12-2009, 11:14 AM   #8
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Herman Mudgettweller in or near a swamp...Mudgett,using an alies Dr.Holmes {dweller on an island in a stream** built a World"s Fair Hotel near the 1893 Chicago World"s Fair complete with a gas chamber,dissection table,and crematorium.He lured women to his "hotel"/considered one of America's first serial killers.He sold the skeletons of his victims for medical studies
Prenderghast:dweller in the priest's deep glen..this man assassinated the mayer of Chicago during the fair...
Lenard Lake,,LAKE : dweller at a dried-up water course in the moors..Lernard Lake video taped his murders in California with his partner in crime ,Charles Ng,,Ng means crow in chinese...strangly enough,birds enter the picture in that some of the "evil" names mean dweller in a grove of trees frequented by this or that type of bird.

Lee : Dweller at an open place in the wood...this name is often a middle name..Henry LEE lucas,,I can't remember them all.

Curmugeon;a bad tempered,cantankerous,difficult person..this is related to Mudgen:dweller in or near a swamp...{in my opinion]
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Old 29-12-2009, 01:20 PM   #9
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Mr. Stewart...you can google "stewart/last name meaning" and click on ancestry.com ....most American last names are listed there...

Just because a person's last name IS Swamp related doesn't mean they are inclined towards the dark side...Terence McKenna said that the more he looked into history ,the more it looked like a well written novel...History/reality is lite up like a Christmas tree with coencedence and syncronisity..

Let's take just one example...Lee Harvey Oswald..Lee has already been covered above,Harvey means:decendant of Harvey [bitter,carnage-worthy]..Oswald:dweller in,or near,the eastern forest...most people believe that Oswald wasn't the shooter,but he was in on it...and "HISTORY" and the controlled Main stream Media is trying to make Oswald the historical lone gun man...so basically Lee Harvey Oswald is a tripple whammy as far as this last names theory goes...make sense?
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:15 AM   #10
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Raderne who came from Raden [moor; reedy place ] in Germany..Dennis Rader of Kansas,known as the BTK killer;.Bind,Torture, Kill..
RAID:a sudden attack or assault.
RAIDER:a person or THING that RAIDS
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:45 AM   #11
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A popular loan-name among Roman men was Silvanus,which developed from the Roman god of "uncultivated land beyond the boundaries of tillage." A man with the name Silvanus was depicted as "uncanny and dangerous."

When an otherwise tame pet dog suddenly runs amuk and attacks people [usually a small child] biologists call it "reversion"...the dog REVERTS to his wild ,undomesticated nature...

from New Dictionary of American Family Names..by Eldon Smith the following>>>>
>>> Slaughter [English] Dweller at,or near,a muddy place or slough; One who came from Slaughter [muddy place] in Gloucestershire; one who killed animals,a butcher.

Does it not follow that a person who isn't squemish about killing animals for a living might "REVERT" and possible become a murderer...or do the forces of darkness ie:the Archons written about in the Nag Hamadi Library Chose these people to posses?????
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Old 16-01-2010, 02:29 AM   #12
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BOYS DON'T CRY,the film that Hilary Swank won the Oscar for was based on a true story.One of the murderer's last name was Lotter..Lotter means :A ne'er-do-well or one good-for-nothing..
Lottman:One who came from Lotte[muddy water] in Germany.
from New Dictionary of American Family Names by Elsdon C. Smith
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Old 21-01-2010, 04:20 AM   #13
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Arthur Shawcross:the Genessee River Serial Killer in Rochester ,New York
Shawcross[Eng]..Dweller by the cross in the GROVE.
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Old 22-01-2010, 09:41 PM   #14
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Cristopher SPEIGHT,suspect in the slaying of 8 in Virginia on Wednesday,surrenders..

Speight[english]:One who came from Speke[brushwood],in Lancashire; one thought to possess the characteristics of a woodpecker..the name Speight has the same meaning as Speck,as in Richard Speck,killer of 8 student nurses in Chicago in the 1960's. Speck died in 1991 in prison.

OK..same exact last name meaning,same number of victims,both were rampages..odd coincedence of spelling of Sp"EIGHT" [8]..Speight

Friday Jan.22,2010 Main Stream Newspaper

Last edited by cathar; 22-01-2010 at 11:25 PM. Reason: incorrect bio info
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Old 25-01-2010, 09:58 PM   #15
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BLAIR means plains dweller or battlefield......
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Old 26-01-2010, 04:18 AM   #16
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Ickeecendant of Yeo or Iko,or of Hick,a pet form of Richard.[rule,hard]
[alex]...Jones:The son of Jone,the Welsh pronunciation of John[gracious gift of Jehovah]
[terence] McKenna:The son of the man beloved of Aodh[fire],the fire god.
[clif]..High: Dweller on the high place,such as an eminence or hill.

These are all good names according to my research...the high ground is where you want to be,high and dry.....not the low ground ,where water can create dampness and rot..
...RUST NEVER SLEEPS...
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Old 27-01-2010, 06:44 AM   #17
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SPECK>>>>>Specker: One who came from Specken[swampy place] in Germany.

SPECTER [1] a visable incorporeal spirit,especially one of a terrifying nature:ghost,phantom,apparition [2] some object or source of terror or dread.

Did Phil Spector become his last name?
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Old 28-01-2010, 04:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathar View Post
Another strange dynamic to this Last Name Meaning business is that many of the gun fighters of the old west have last names that originated in West Riding in Yorkshire,which is where some of the battles between the Scots and Crown armies took place.The battle that the Stewart forces lost {Bonnie Prince Charly**resulted in the deportation of many on the losing side to America.So you see where I'm going with this...Racial memory? Fighting spirit in the DNA? There is something going on here but I haven't got all the puzzle pieces put together..
I do know that ghosts tend to inhabit wet areas more than dry areas...so I'm thinking some sort of generational spirit possesion.I do think that the worst sort of killers are possesed because the nature of some of their crimes is "beyond belief" What other explaination is there.

Hope you'll expand further on this extremely interesting subject

Like you, I believe there is something going on, threading its way through lives, largely unsuspected yet powerful and disturbing

And there's confirmation of the various threads you've woven

For example, as you say, it's believed that low-lying, swampy regions (including other watery locations) are a powerful attractant to spirits/ghosts, etc. T.C. Lethbridge appeared to be of this opinion. In fact, it may well be that these entities require water or humidity in order to manifest and/or to provide them energy --- perhaps even as an adjunct to their own awareness


Jung concluded that spirits are only able to define themselves via the living (which provides more food for thought than we have years to ponder), so perhaps it's the living, in fact, who are in some way 'activated' via vicinity to water (swamps/marshes etc) and thus gain their awareness of spirits/ghosts and related phenomena

The ancient Greeks warned that reclaimed land and swampy, marshy places are extremely unhealthy (and cause of many conditions, i.e., cancer) for humans and animals alike

I suspect the same could be said about subterranean water and particularly 'crossings' of underground streams and rivers, etc. For instance, some may remember the mysterious and numerous road accidents a couple of decades ago in (I think) Holland, for which no logical cause could be found. The road was quite new, multi-carriageway and well-designed and constructed, yet numerous motorists drove off the road (at approx. the same location) into surrounding ditches, often with fatal results. Finally, after all possible causes had been exhaustively explored, investigators researched an 'unscientific', possible explanation. Beneath the road, they discovered, two and possibly more underground rivers intersected. They speculated that the energies released by this may have the power to disrupt human concentration (or cause altered-states of consciousness), resulting in the accidents (see T.C. Lethbridge for more on this).

Another possible explanation offered was that people were leaving the road to follow an ancient trackway which had once lain beneath the new road, the remnants of which 'branched off' and headed in a different direction to the new road at approximately the point where so many accidents had occurred -- despite that those involved in accidents had not been alive when the old trackway had been in use hundreds of years earlier


Malachi Martin, I believe, made reference to 'generational spirit possession' in his book, 'Hostage to the Devil' which was devoted to 'possession' and exorcism

So, numerous elements: generational spirit possession and/or hauntings, paranormal phenomena; physical/psychical violence and horror; specific locations, particularly water/swamp/marsh/low-lying areas; family-names connected with some or all the above

All well deserving of serious research and investigation, imo.

Perhaps life is not the blank-slate we imagine it to be ... ?
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Old 28-01-2010, 05:07 PM   #19
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Almost everyone has heard by now of the 'middle name Wayne' phenomenon

If not, people around the world have been at a loss to explain the fact that an extensive list of murderers bearing the middle name of 'Wayne' not only exists, but continues to grow !

For the list, please see this link:
http://www.newsoftheweird.com/wayne.html

and for more recent additions to the list, see here:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...strikes-again/


Wayne ? Why should it feature so often in connection with crime, often horrific crime ?

Interdimensional tricksters (i.e. 'jinn') having fun ?

Or could it be the 'value' of the letters contained within 'Wayne' ?

I have no idea
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Old 28-01-2010, 10:32 PM   #20
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wanion [noun] Archiac. curse;vengeance [1540-50];alternative of waniand MEreposition of wanien,to wane from the phase in the waniand [mone] in the time of the waning [moon] i.e.,in an unlucky hour.
wayless:lacking a road or path: a wayless jungle.
way lay..to intercept or attack from ambush,as in order to rob,seize,or kill
wanton[1]done maliciously or without motive:wanton creulity[2]without regard to what is right.
wangle:to bring about or obtain by scheming or underhanded methods.
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