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Old 04-11-2009, 08:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
Lecture, presented at America Lodge
Good Morning Lightgiver,

This will be something of a marathon:::

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The oldest Masonic document is the Halliwell Manuscript - which was written in 1,390 AD. - it didn't give any references to Masonry before the Flood.
At the time the Halliwell was written; the prevailing view on mankind was pre-Darwinian; meaning that everything started with the flood. Therefore in the minds of the early Christians, there was nothing before the flood.

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It begins with the foundation of Masonry in Babylon. The fact however remains that in this Manuscript the Temple is directly and definitely referred to as a place, where Masons met in great numbers.
The Halliwell tells of Euclid and how he taught Geometry in Egypt; and how that knowledge of Scared Geometry became Free Masonrie. There is no mention of Masonry having its roots in Babylon. As for the temple being the place that Masons met in great numbers, it should be no surprise. It is recorded that Solomon had 4 score thousand Masons involved in the construction....so it is fair to say that they might just meet one another.

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One more reference to the Temple is in the first Charge, which is: "That you shall be a true man to God and the Holy Church". There is no mention of King Solomon's Temple. The Cook Manuscript -which was written in 1,490 AD.- puts the origin of Masonry at the time of the building of the Tower in Babylon.
This statement is not accurate. Cook [sic] merely states that 'Ham' taught his workmen the craft of masonry. It is not an indication of the origins of the craft. Curiously the number of 'artificers' required to build the tower of babel was almost the same required to build king solomons temple.

Cooke also says " What time that the childrewn of Israel dwelt in Egypt they learned the craft of masonry".

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Nimrod was the first Grand Master, who made a first Charge; frames the first Constitution, that Freemasons ever had. Originally Nimrod was a Sumerian in Babylon, around 3,000 BC. His name was Nib-úr (Nib = panther; úr = hero). The discovery of the original inscriptions of great significance to prove, that Nimrod had actually been a historical personage. He was described as the founder of all the king- doms of Mesopotamia: Uruk, Akkad, Babylon and Assyria, and the royal city of Kish.
According to Hebrew writings, Nimrod was of Mizrain (Egypt) through his Mother, and Hebrew through his Father Cush, Noah's eldest son. Nimrod is the antithesis of Christianity and in Islam is classed as the great tyrant.

Two prominent theories are now held in regard to Nimrod's identity: one, adopted by G. Smith and Jeremias, is that Nimrod is to be identified with the Babylonian hero Izdubar or Gishdubar (Gilgamesh); the second, that of Sayce,Pinches, and others, identifies Nimrod with Marduk, the Babylonian Mercury. (Source - The Jewish Encyclopedia)

As for Nimrod being a historical personage; I doubt that very much. Interestingly Cooke goes on to say that Abraham taught Euclid the science of Geometry, which would suggest that Abraham was the first Grand Master.

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One, who carefully reads the Halliwell and Cook Manuscripts finds unmistakable evidence, that Nimrod organized the first Craft of Masonry.
One who UNDERSTANDS both these MS's finds no such evidence.

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In Egypt, the pyramid-builder's priestly elite called each other "Brother Mason". Their god was "Ptah" and they called Him "Great Architect of the Universe". Their symbols and rituals were passed on to Freemasons by the Tem-plars and Jesuits, without any knowledge of natural science and architecture. The early Freemasons were a secret society. They were the inheritors of an ancient and pre-Chris- tian tradition handed down from ancient times.
In Egyptian mythology, Ptah was a deification of one of the 9 God's involved in the Egyptian creation myth. Essentially Ptah was the creator or at least the God that had the initial idea. He is associated with Atum and subsequently the Horus. He became Ptah-Seker, and then Ptah-Seker-Osiris; obviously you can see the connection.

The term 'Great Architect of the Universe' is associated with John Calvin, who, to the best of my knowledge, does not feature in Egyptian mythology.

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A very powerful Masonic lodge, the Illuminati -which were founded by a young Jew, Adam Weishaupt- influenced many Masonic lodges in Europe.
Perhaps somebody can confirm this one way or the other. Weishaupt was a Jesuit, not a Jew. Being a Jesuit would make him a Catholic not a Jew.

Whilst this lecture is of some interest as a story; it is riddled with innacuracies and should not be considered anything other than something that a Grandfather might impart to his Grandchildren whilst sucking a Werthers Original
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:05 AM   #62
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If it helps, Weishaupt was a young Jewish man who was sent by his uncle to be educated by the Jesuits.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:02 PM   #63
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If it helps, Weishaupt was a young Jewish man who was sent by his uncle to be educated by the Jesuits.
Thanks; I struggled to find a reference to his heritage. Would it not be strange for a Jew to undergo a Jesuit education?

I did find these quotes:

Weishaupt was initiated into Freemasonry Lodge "Theodor zum guten Rath", at Munich in 1777. He worked at first to divest Freemasonry of its pseudohistorical mumbo-jumbo and reform it. Weishaupt had no use for other occultisms in general:

His project of "illumination, enlightening the understanding by the sun of reason, which will dispel the clouds of superstition and of prejudice" was an unwelcome reform. Soon however he had developed gnostic mysteries of his own, with the goal of perfecting human nature through re-education to achieve a communal state with nature, freed of government and organized religion. He began working towards incorporating his system of Illuminism into that of Masonry, with the aim of spreading his ideals throughout the world.


I thought both of these quotes to be illuminating
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:14 PM   #64
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Not really Steve. I was educated at St Ignatius College when it was in Stoke Newington, North London. My best friend at school was Jewish. We took the overflow from the Jewish School at the top of the hill. Of course, they did not take part in religious assemblies. They clocked in at the Jewish school and then walked down to us for lessons.

Hey. Business is business!
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:58 PM   #65
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link
The Halliwell Document

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The manuscript was recorded in various personal inventories as it changed hands until it came into possession of the Royal Library, which was donated to the British Museum in 1757 by King George II to form the nucleus of the present British Library.
During this time, the document was generally described as a poem of moral duties. The significance of the document as relating to Freemasonry was not realized until it was featured in an article on Freemasonry by James Halliwell in 1840.
The text of the document states that Freemasonry was brought to England during the reign of King Athelstan from 924 to 939.
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The Matthew Cooke Manuscript is the oldest of a class of about one hundred early documents known as Freemasonry's Gothic Constitutions, and the second oldest known manuscript in Masonic history.[1] Typically, the Gothic Constitutions included an invocation, a mythical legend of ancient Masonry, a list of charges and regulations for Masons, and an oath or obligation.[2]
The manuscript was published by R. Spencer, London, in 1861 and it was edited by Mr. Matthew Cooke—hence the name. In the British Museum's catalogue it is listed as "Additional M.S. 23,198", and has been dated by Hughan at 1450 or thereabouts, an estimate in which most of the specialists have concurred.
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The Kirkwall scroll is a manuscript of uncertain origin which depicts several masonic devices. It hangs on the west wall of the temple of Lodge Kirkwall Kilwinning No. 38(2) in Orkney.
It is commonly claimed to be the floor cloth recorded as having been given to the lodge by Bro. William Graeme in 1785. Various legends link the scroll to the Knights Templar and location of the Holy Grail. These claims, however, have been challenged by Robert L.D. Cooper in his book "The Rosslyn Hoax?"[6]. Cooper presents evidence arguing that the scroll was made by William Graeme, or under his direction, and he dates it to the latter part of the eighteenth century on the basis of a detailed analysis of its symbolism.
These dates are not in doubt

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The Constitutions of the Free-Masons was a constitution written for the Premier Grand Lodge of England, to standardize the rituals and practices of Freemasonry among lodges of London and Westminster operating under that Grand Lodge. Obviously, it was not meant to apply to other lodges in other parts of England, Scotland and Ireland. The first and second edition were written by Rev. James Anderson in 1723 and 1738.
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Anderson's Constitutions were based on the old masonic manuscripts (also called "Gothic Constitutions") and on the General Regulations which had been compiled first by George Payne in 1720.[7] The full title of the 1723 edition was The Constitutions of the Free-Masons, Containing the History, Charges, Regulations, &c. of that most Ancient and Right Worshipful Fraternity, For the Use of the Lodges.[8]
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The 1723 edition of the Constitutions was edited and reprinted by Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia in 1734 (online pdf edition), becoming the first Masonic book printed in America.
And they all come after 1717

Documents can be faked and this is also true of the Dead Sea Scrolls etc

I suggest that the entire mystery history of the kind of Temple/Ritual/Judaic/Kabbalah etc is a complete fabrication and that the reality is the Pharisee class with their Usuary and banking use Freemasonry as a means to their ends.

In Rosslyn Masonic elements were later added to suggest an older history - another example of Hoaxes R Us @ work. Otherwise why adulterate Roslyn?
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:59 PM   #66
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Poppycock. How could it be Christian and started by Nimrod. "Their object was magic". "Modern Freemasonry is Jewish with gentile dupes and lackeys at lower levels." This man is very confused. 1/10 must do better.

No evidence, references, quotations, nothing.
Au contraire G-S

The link to the source book is in the OP

Here it is again

http://heygeorge5.tripod.com/id5.html

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Old 04-11-2009, 02:30 PM   #67
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Cooper presents evidence arguing that the scroll was made by William Graeme, or under his direction, and he dates it to the latter part of the eighteenth century on the basis of a detailed analysis of its symbolism.
I'm not sure of the significance you attribute to these words which you highlighted. The Lodge minutes book clearly show that a Floor Cloth was presented by William Graeme in June of 1786. Brother Graeme was an Orcadian by birth but whose Mother Lodge was Lodge 128 of the Ancient Constitution of England. Lodge 128 was known as Lodge Prince Edwin in Bury in Lancashire.

It was never used as a Floor Cloth or carpet as it was too big to be used within the Lodge building in use at the time, and so it was hung on the wall.

http://www.robertlomas.com/Orkney/scrolldi.jpg

This Article Appeared in the Scottish Press, written by Kath Gourlay:

The results of radio carbon dating carried out on a rare wall hanging has shocked members of a Masonic Lodge in the Orkney Islands who have been told that their document is a medieval treasure worth several million pounds.

He claims that radio carbon dating of the scroll points to the huge 18 foot sailcloth hanging as being 15th Century.

"The operative side of the craft, connected with the trade guilds and stone masons, was also strongly associated with the St Clairs" says Rosslyn Chapel's Exhibition Director Bob Brydon "so there's little doubt that the Kirkwall Scroll has very significant implications."

However Brydon is not convinced that the scroll is 15th Century. "Its usual to date these kind of things stylistically" he says "and the small copy we have hanging in the Rosslyn museum is a perfect example of 18th Century naïve art - unique, because of the symbolism and in Masonic terms its indeed priceless."

Contact with the University of Oxford Research laboratory which did the radio-carbon dating adds to the mystery by supporting both dates.

"We analysed material from the Kirkwall Scroll on two separate occasions" says a spokesman from the Archaeology and History of Art department which carried out the work. "You have to allow a certain margin of error in calibrating carbon content and the first sample taken from the outside edge of the material was possibly 18th or early 19th Century. The second piece which came from the central panel produced a much older date - 15th or Early 16th Century."

A senior Lodge member from Kirkwall says they have a possible answer to that one.

"The cloth has been joined at some stage. You can clearly see where the two side panels interlink with the centre panel ."

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Old 04-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #68
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The most venerable Cardinal Jose Maria Caro R., Archbishop of Santiago and Primate of Chile, also proves, in his authoritatively supported work “The Secret of Freemasonry”, that it is the Jews who direct this sect, in order to rule the world and to destroy Holy Church. In connection with its origin he affirms:

“The Freemasonic rite clearly betrays its Jewish origin: the symbols, which begin with the Bible itself; the coat of arms upon which an attempt is made to explain the different forms of the Cherubim described by Ezekiel in his second poem, an ox, a man, a lion and an eagle; the two pillars of the Freemasonic temple in remembrance of the temple of Solomon; the rebuilding of the temple which is the work of the Freemasons, etc. The reading matter and the handbooks, which in greater part are taken from the Bible, they turn almost always towards Freemasonic taste, especially the legend of Hiram, which plays an important role in the Freemasonic rite.

“The customary words and expressions, like the names of the pillars ‘Boaz’ and ‘Jachin’, the words of knowledge and of admittance: Tubalcain, Shibboleth, Giblim or Moahon, Nekum or Nekam, Abibalc, etc; the importance, which is allotted to numbers, a matter very original to the Cabbala, all these are further proofs of the Cabbalistic influence on Freemasonry.

“Finally the facts, the rule of terror, the outbreak of Satanic hatred against the Church, against our Lord Jesus Christ, the terrible blasphemies against God that the revolutionary Freemasons perpetrated in France, are nothing more than the expression and the fulfilment of the Cabbalistic and secret sects, which already for several centuries have fought secretly against Christianity. What the Jewish Bolshevists to greatest part do in Russia against Christianity, is only another edition of the deeds of the Freemasons in the French revolution. The executioners are others; however the doctrine that motivates and empowers them and the supreme leadership are the same.”
This jumped out @ me...

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The famous Archbishop-Bishop of Port-Louis says, when he speaks of the Jewish origin of Freemasonic doctrines, the following:

“The doctrines of Freemasonry are those of the Jewish Cabbala (Mysticism) and in particular those of their book ‘Sohar’ (Light). This is not recorded in any Freemasonic document; for it is one of the great secrets, which the Jews preserve so that only they themselves know it. Nevertheless we have been able to discover it, when we followed the traces of the Number 11. Here we have discovered the fundamental doctrines of the ‘Jewish Cabbala’ which were taken up into Freemasonry.”
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay/

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Old 04-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #69
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Au contraire G-S

The link to the source book is in the OP

Here it is again

http://heygeorge5.tripod.com/id5.html
Enough said, but I haven't changed my opinion.
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:56 PM   #70
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No coincidence that the creation date of the 'moderns' non masonry masons (1717) follows the ascent to the throne of England by the House of Hanover in 1714.


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Old 04-11-2009, 03:57 PM   #71
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rodin - well done!
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“Pascalis or Pascualis (Martinez) Jewish theosopher and renowned enlightener, leader of the sects of the Martinists . . . founded a school of the Cabbalists, made in 1754 talk about himself for the first time as founder of a philosophic-spiritual, Jesuitical rite, which he described as a rite of the chosen Coons . . . It is revealed from his writings that the doctrine of Martinez Pascalis goes back to the Cabbalist tradition of the Jews.”340

In connection with this rite, it is stated in the freemasonic dictionary under the term “Elegidos Coons”, word for word: “Chosen Coons. Description for a philosophic-spiritual, ultra-Jesuitical rite, which was founded in 1754 by a Portuguese Jew named Martinez Pascalis. Coons means priest in Jewish.”341

Concerning the repeated attempts of Jewish freemasonry to introduce itself into the Society and to control it, another source gives us information about this freemasonic rite created for this gloomy purpose. It is stated in the official encyclopaedic dictionary of freemasonry under the term “estricta observancia” (strict observance): “Estricta observancia. Description for a rite which had split up into many others and represents the most perfect expression of the Templar system in freemasonry. This rite was the third freemasonic innovation of the Jesuits, who stirred up the hope among their supporters to come into the possession of the riches of the old Templars. The chronological history of the Grandmasters corresponds to that of the generals of the Society of Jesus. The rite of strict observance was finally set up in Germany, between 1760 and 1763, by the brother Karl Gathels, the Baron of Hund, who to the six grades of the Order at first determined added yet another. The rite was organised in the following seven degrees: pupil, companion, master, Scottish master, novice, Templar in three classes: Eques, Socius and Armiger, and Eques professus.”342

The fact that, since his grounding in this Rite which was intended to control the Jesuits, a new Grandmaster was also chosen if a new general of the Order was appointed, shows the tenacity of Jewry and its satellites, freemasonry, to introduce themselves in the Holy Work of St. Ignatius and to control it.

On the other side is the special wish to make this freemasonic rite in connection with the Templar Order very significant. We must not forget that the Templar Order was founded in order to defend Holy Church against its enemies. The “Synagogue of Satan”, however, gained entry into it until the secret Jews occupied the leading positions, then brought it away from its original aims and made it become a serious danger for the Church and the Christian peoples. One must also bear in mind that, in the prosecutions against the Templars, the effort was revealed to skilfully conceal themselves, for, although the Christian Order was watched over by the enemy, it remained in its official outward realms bound to Holy Church, even if also in secret circles the easier controlled Catholic Templars were seduced and their religious faith gradually taken from them, until they had finally become secret satellites of Jewry. The infiltrations of the Synagogue and of Freemasonry into the Society of Jesus followed visibly the same aims, for this freemasonic-Templar rite of the Jesuits wishes apparently to make the Society of Jesus into a new Templar Order with retention of its outer official structure is then finally secretly ruled by the enemies of the Church and then used in order to destroy its defenders and with the purpose of making easier the victory of Jewry and its satellites, freemasonry and Communism. From the valuable Freemasonic document, which we study, it is revealed that even other schismatic rites of Freemasonry, which were for this reason called mixed rites or also controlled by the Jewish Cabbalists, were organised in order to influence the meritorious work of St. Ignatius of Loyola and to control it. Accordingly it is stated under the expression “Clerigos de la estricta observancia”: “Clergy of the strict rule of the Order. Title for a Jesuitical mixed rite, which was formed by Cabbalists, Alchemists, Black Magicians and members of the Society of Jesus.”343

This is apparently a Freemasonic rite, which emanated from a schism of the “Rite of the strict rule of the Order”, which, as is stated in the dictionary of Freemasonry mentioned, was subjected to schisms. Both rites are of Jewish origin and we must allude to the fact that in Judaism frequently inner dissensions occur, which are reflected in the schisms which every Jewish party calls forth in the Freemasonic organisation, which at first is ruled by the Jewish cell, but then later passes through its own split. It is not further remarkable that to this Freemasonic rite, which is intended to control the Jesuits, Black Magicians belonged, for we have indeed already proved that the Jews were the most principal spreaders of the Lucifer cult and of Black Magic. On the other side, it was revealed, through many prosecutions of Templars, that in secret circles of the Order the devil was worshipped, even if the open outward structure of the Templar order appeared additionally so Catholic and orthodox as in good old times.

The hair-raising facts, which we describe and have taken from official works of Judaism and of Freemasonry, allow us to clearly recognise the devilish stiff-neckedness of the “Synagogue of Satan” in infiltrating itself into and controlling the Society of Jesus, which in modern times was for it the most combative, most dangerous Catholic Order, in order then to use it against Holy Church, just as it did circa seven centuries ago with the Templar Order.
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/pinay/
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:05 PM   #72
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No coincidence that the creation date of the 'moderns' non masonry masons (1717) follows the ascent to the throne of England by the House of Hanover in 1714.
OK I need some help here - Why is the Number 11 so important to Kabbollox?

The Star of David = 7 I learned from Wiccapedo

I am thinking 911 and 7/7 are Judeo Masonic events of great significance to them

Also Apollo 11 thru to Apollo 17 from Freemasonic NASA ties in
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:06 PM   #73
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Enough said, but I haven't changed my opinion.
Pity I thought you might be an ally in exposing lies so be it
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:20 PM   #74
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Pity I thought you might be an ally in exposing lies so be it
I am, I do, and I will, but only when it makes sense. I do not prescribe to the view "all's fair in love and war".
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:53 PM   #75
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kabbollox + germatria

The next two methods of gematria calculation are Mispar Sidduri, ordinal value, where each of the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet are given a number between 1 and 22, and Mispar Katan, reduced value, where every letter is equal to a single digit number.

This system is called milu'i or milu'im. Since some letters can be spelled differently as words, different numerical equivalencies can be achieved for a single word. Thus, the Tetragrammaton, yod, hei, vav, and hei, has the values of 72, 63, 45, or 52, each of which has vital significance in Kabbalah.

22 / 2 = 11

72 representing the Holy Name of 72 letters 7+2 = 9

63 9x7

6+3 = 9

45 4+5=9

52 5+2=7

There is also a "great number" that counts the final letters of the alphabet as a continuation of the alphabet (500 = ם; 600 = ן; 700 = ץ; 800 = ף; 900 = ך). However, there is a calculation according to the usual order of the alphabet whereby the numerical values of the final letters are as follows: ך = 500, ם = 600, ן = 700, etc.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...7_0_07165.html

777 and other Qabalistic writings of Aleister Crowley


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OK I need some help here - Why is the Number 11 so important to Kabbollox?

The Star of David = 7 I learned from Wiccapedo

I am thinking 911 and 7/7 are Judeo Masonic events of great significance to them

Also Apollo 11 thru to Apollo 17 from Freemasonic NASA ties in
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:48 PM   #76
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I am, I do, and I will, but only when it makes sense. I do not prescribe to the view "all's fair in love and war".
This is not war it is truthseeking. Are you in or out?
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:49 PM   #77
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kabbollox + germatria

The next two methods of gematria calculation are Mispar Sidduri, ordinal value, where each of the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet are given a number between 1 and 22, and Mispar Katan, reduced value, where every letter is equal to a single digit number.

This system is called milu'i or milu'im. Since some letters can be spelled differently as words, different numerical equivalencies can be achieved for a single word. Thus, the Tetragrammaton, yod, hei, vav, and hei, has the values of 72, 63, 45, or 52, each of which has vital significance in Kabbalah.

22 / 2 = 11

72 representing the Holy Name of 72 letters 7+2 = 9

63 9x7

6+3 = 9

45 4+5=9

52 5+2=7

There is also a "great number" that counts the final letters of the alphabet as a continuation of the alphabet (500 = ם; 600 = ן; 700 = ץ; 800 = ף; 900 = ך). However, there is a calculation according to the usual order of the alphabet whereby the numerical values of the final letters are as follows: ך = 500, ם = 600, ן = 700, etc.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...7_0_07165.html

777 and other Qabalistic writings of Aleister Crowley

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/777_and...eister_Crowley
A load of hokum I see it like the gangs who spray subway trains. It is a brand that's all. 777 yes 7/7 etc
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Old 04-11-2009, 07:27 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by stevepenny View Post
Good Morning Lightgiver,

This will be something of a marathon:::


Perhaps somebody can confirm this one way or the other. Weishaupt was a Jesuit, not a Jew. Being a Jesuit would make him a Catholic not a Jew.

Whilst this lecture is of some interest as a story; it is riddled with innacuracies and should not be considered anything other than something that a Grandfather might impart to his Grandchildren whilst sucking a Werthers Original

There are plenty inaccuracies around this day and age.

Hiram Abiff and the true origins of masonry comes to mind.
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Last edited by lightgiver; 04-11-2009 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 07:34 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by lightgiver View Post
there are plenty inaccuracies around this day and age.

Hiram abiff and the true origins of masonry comes to mind.
+1 :d

Last edited by rodin; 04-11-2009 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:56 PM   #80
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Snake oil salesmen...& psychopathic neanderthals, malevolent power & control are the 'mysticism' they strive for, from West to East are the beneficiaries of their murderous bloodlust.

Five more dead sacrificed in Afghanistan today. Thanks vatican, thanks zionists, thanks masons.

mark of cain.

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A load of hokum I see it like the gangs who spray subway trains. It is a brand that's all. 777 yes 7/7 etc
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Last edited by decim; 04-11-2009 at 08:57 PM.
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