Masonic Beliefs & Practices (2)

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by kadosh

The 11th international conference on ‘The Origins of Freemasonry’ -

http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/images/conf2009.jpg

The conference weekend will begin on Friday 23 October at University College London - The conference itself will take place on Saturday 24 and Sunday 25 October at Canonbury Academy, 6 Canonbury Place, Islington, London N1 2NQ, England. - Full details: http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/

It will feature keynote addresses delivered by three internationally acclaimed scholars:
Dr Margaret Jacob, Distinguished Professor of History at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA)
Professor Dr José Antonio Ferrer Benimeli, Founder and Director of the Centro de Estudios Históricos de la Masoneria Espanola (CEHME), Zaragoza University
Dr David Stevenson, Professor Emeritus of Scottish History at the University of St Andrews.

The 11th international conference on ‘The Myopic View of the Origins of MODERNS Freemasonry’ You won't learn much.

[zero1]

Originally Posted by decim

A power structure shape that would better suit our Celtic nature is this



Radiating outwardly, interconnected, no point at the top, perfect, a fractal of spirals, a theodolite has 3 legs.

Beautiful.

Originally Posted by decim

Top down power corrupts, we inherited a crooked pyramid

Indeed.

[kadosh]

Centre for Research into Freemasonry and Fraternalism, Sheffield University, England. The CRFF was established in the academic session 2000-1 as the first centre in a British university devoted to scholarly research into Freemasonry. Since 2001, the Centre has produced a wide range of published work, organised many seminars and conferences, and developed extensive collaborations with other scholarly projects in Europe and elsewhere. In 2006, the Centre moved into new premises named in honour of Prof. Douglas Knoop, the Sheffield scholar who was a pioneer in research into the history of Freemasonry.
http://www.kena.org/Hirams/Pictures/...enRAMApron.jpg
CRFF Newsletter 41, August/September 2009 - http://freemasonry.dept.shef.ac.uk/i...l0=&level1=264

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by kadosh

Centre for Research into Freemasonry and Fraternalism, Sheffield University, England. The CRFF was established in the academic session 2000-1 as the first centre in a British university devoted to scholarly research into Freemasonry. Since 2001, the Centre has produced a wide range of published work, organised many seminars and conferences, and developed extensive collaborations with other scholarly projects in Europe and elsewhere. In 2006, the Centre moved into new premises named in honour of Prof. Douglas Knoop, the Sheffield scholar who was a pioneer in research into the history of Freemasonry.
http://www.kena.org/Hirams/Pictures/...enRAMApron.jpg
CRFF Newsletter 41, August/September 2009 - http://freemasonry.dept.shef.ac.uk/i...l0=&level1=264

And Jack Daniel was its first Director and made all of the appointments. Give me a break!

[kadosh]

Time Line History of Early Freemasonry 1717-1813
http://www.chevalierramsay.be/files/...initiation.png
1717 First Grand Lodge in the world formed on 24th June.
1721 First nobleman elected to be (5th) Grand Master.
1723 First Book of Constitutions published.
1723 First appointment of a Secretary to the Grand Lodge to keep minutes of its meetings.
1723 The Third degree was introduced.
1724 Board of Benevolence (later Board of General Purposes) appointed.
1725 Grand Lodge of York formed.
1725 Grand Lodge of Ireland formed.
1726 First Provincial Grand Masters are appointed.
1730 First of several exposures on Freemasonry printed in the press.
1732 Oldest known warrant issued by Grand Lodge of Ireland.
1736 Grand Lodge of Scotland formed.
1741 Royal Order of Scotland degree recorded being worked in London.
1743 First reference to a Royal Arch at Youghal, Ireland.
1745 Oldest known Royal Arch Chapter formed at Stirling, Scotland.
1751 Grand Lodge of the Antients formed.
1753 First lodge of Royal Order of Scotland formed in Scotland at Edinburgh.
1753 Oldest known Royal Arch minute recorded at Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA.
1754 Scottish Rite (Rose Croix) degree formed at Claremont, France.
1758 Oldest Royal Arch minute in England recorded at Bristol.
1760 Lodges began using names other than that of their meeting place.
1761 Grand Lodge of All England revived at York.
1766 Grand and Royal Arch of Jerusalem formed by the "Moderns".
1767 Grand Lodge of Royal Order of Scotland formed at Edinburgh.
1769 Oldest known Mark minute recorded at Portsmouth, England.
1770 Oldest known Mark minute in Scotland recorded at Dumfries.
1772 Alleged date of the formation of the Grand Lodge of the Society of Ancient Masons of the Deluvian Order, or Royal Ark and Mark Mariners.
1773 "Moderns" Grand Lodge purchase property in Great Queen Street, London.
1773 Order of David and Jonathan being worked in the Netherlands.
1776 Freemasons' Hall built in Great Queen Street, London.
1779 Grand Lodge of England South of the River Trent formed.
1780 First known record of the Royal Ark Mariner degree at Portsmouth, England.
1782 First reference to the Rose Croix degree in British Isles is found in Ireland.
1788 Royal Cumberland Freemasons' School (later Royal Masonic Institute for Girls) formed by the "Moderns".
1789 Grand Lodge of England South of the River Trent ceased.
1791 First known record of a Grand Conclave of Knights Templar being held.
1792 Grand Lodge of All England at York ceased.
1793 First known record of the Rose Croix degree in England at Bath.
1798 Institution for Clothing and Educating the Sons of Indigent Freemasons (later Royal Masonic Institute for Boys) formed by the "Antients".
1799 First known record of the 'Old Mark' or Red Cross of Babylon degree at Haworth, England.
1799 Act of Parliament passed declaring all Societies unlawful that require members to take an oath not required by law. Freemasonry exempt.
1801 Supreme Council for the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite formed in Charleston, South Carolina, USA.
1809 Lodge of Promulgation formed by the "Moderns".
1810 The "Antients" resolve that a union of the two Grand Lodges would be expedient.
1811 Lodge of Promulgation makes recommendations for combining the ceremonies and ritual of the two Grand Lodges.
1813 United Grand Lodge of England formed on 27th December.

[kadosh]

It is generally accepted that the first Grand Lodge for speculative Freemasons in the world, was the Premier Grand Lodge, the Grand Lodge of England, now The United Grand Lodge of England, formed in 1717. The second Grand Lodge in the world was the Irish Grand Lodge formed in 1725. It is quite strange that one hears much more about how pervasive Freemasonry is in Scotland and not so much about Irish Masonry.

Grand Lodge Inception Dates:
England: 1717
Ireland: 1725
France: 1728 - (Grand Orient de France)
America: 1730 - (Massachusetts)
Scotland: 1736

What about even 1250 ? - http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...y_germany.html

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by kadosh

Well, it is generally accepted that the first Grand Lodge for speculative Freemasons in the world, was the Premier Grand Lodge, the Grand Lodge of England, now The United Grand Lodge of England, formed in 1717. The second Grand Lodge in the world was the Irish Grand Lodge formed in 1725. It is quite strange that one hears much more about how pervasive Freemasonry is in Scotland and not so much about Irish Masonry.

Grand Lodge Inception Dates:
England: 1717
Ireland: 1725
France: 1728 - (Grand Orient de France)
America: 1730 - (Massachusetts)
Scotland: 1736

What about even 1250 ? - http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...y_germany.html

"It is generally accepted" by whom?

Do you imagine that the general public gives Freemasonry even a single thought? The vast majority of the public go about their lives and through their lives without considering it at all.

Here is a statistic for you. Approximately .04% of the male population of the world ever comes into contact with Freemasonry per se.

Now, this is the current situation as I see it:

The United Grand Lodge of England and its satellites have been pumping out propoganda about "the first Grand Lodge for speculative Freemasons" UNOPPOSED since 1813, almost 200 years. This fact explains why Moderns freemasons "generally accept" it.

This proves nothing, except that Moderns Masons are either too dim or too comfortable to question this statement, or too stupid to face the fact that the statement is plainly ahistoric. The fact is that the records of history are against you. You can repeat and repeat and repeat until hell freezes over. You will not change this.

Now, we revived this Grand Lodge, The Grand Lodge of All England, in December 2005. Not that long ago.

If you were simply a member of the public taking an interest in Freemasonry for the first time, you would want to find out about it. You would do some simple research at first, probably using the internet nowadays. If that is a reasonable hypothesis, you could not avoid finding both the United Grand Lodge of England and The Grand Lodge of All England.

Twenty years ago we would have had a problem getting our message across. Not today.

kadosh, you can continue to pump out your partisan propoganda here, but nobody who is seriously considering this subject will accept what you say, unopposed any more. The free ride is well and truly over.

A breakthrough will take some time, we know this, we are not fools, but 2017 is fast approaching. This subject will be in the public spotlight, in the press and in the media. So you carry on pumping it out here as much as you like, until then, but no longer unopposed.

We are working very hard on this, and we are already in partnership with various agencies which will ensure that the truth will be told, and we have no doubt that it will thereafter not be "generally accepted" by anybody.

PS : Just a footnote: our website is currently being viewed by 5 visitors and 5 new website members, 24 hours of every the day. The average stay is 8 minutes. That means that every day we welcome 1,800 people to our website, and this number is rising. Only 19.5% of these are return visits. That means that we are speaking to approximately 540,000 new, interested readers per annum. Over half a million hits from new readers who no longer "generally accept" your propaganda.

[kadosh]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ron.jpg/449px-

About 8 years to go! Roll on 2017, or possibly even 2013 when the official history many be available. I'm sure UGLE will be prepared with all rebuttals ready.

[stewart edwards]

I really dont think that jo public is going to be all that bothered. Those who are interested in business deals/networking will continue to join lodges that promote this sort of stuff (and before anyone tells me this doesnt happen I have seen it first hand when people were trying to get me to be involved with deals). Those who want to join a club will continue to join those who promote this. Those who are encouraged to join in their fathers footsteps will equally continue to do so. The only difference is that the internet and the discussions theirin are positively enabling non masons, and masons who perhaps feel that the "system" is letting them down, to make more informed choices about which lodge to be in. Quite frankly the man made politics of the masonic world is of little interest to anyone outwith the masonic world. It is what masons actually do in the community that is noticed and which judgements are made upon. Not which brand of masonry you happen to belong to.

Whether you realise it or not Peter is actually doing UGLE a big favour in that he is encouraging thought about the core essence of UGLE/moderns masonry. And thought is never a bad thing, for you can benefit from it and move forwards positively from it. The only people who fear thought are those who are controlled by darkness.

Freemasonry is not a point scoring exercise. Now please stop acting like bairns in the playground. I think that I heard somewhere that tolerance was a valuable thing to have in the masonic world.

Please accept my apologies now for my bluntness.

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by kadosh

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ron.jpg/449px-

About 8 years to go! Roll on 2017, or possibly even 2013 when the official history many be available. I'm sure UGLE will be prepared with all rebuttals ready.

Well we shall see, but I am sure you will agree that we cannot be ignored any longer.

"The 1717 movement was not a "revival," as Anderson has it, and recent writers contend it to have been. REVOLUTION is the proper term, as it was the culmination of revolutionary movements commenced more than one hundred and fifty years prior, and continued through all those years to gain the end aimed at. The movements subsequent to 1717 prove it, as the course pursued by the new Grand Lodge towards the York Grand Lodge was of the same character as before the revolution. The York Grand Lodge cannot be ignored, as Anderson and some writers of the present day aim to do. It has a record prior to 1717 and subsequent ..." (SOURCE: Freemasonry in England from 1567 to 1813, London Grand Lodges, p.17, by Leon Hyneman, 1877)

"In 1746, however, Grand Lodge decided it would be simpler to recite its history and derive its authority from its own foundation in 1717, so a fascinating and spiritually rewarding chapter of Freemasonic history was consigned to the dustbin." (SOURCE: Freemasonry Today, Autumn 1998, Article - Henry Jermyn, Grand Master of the Freemasons?)

Will this be part of the rebuttal I wonder?

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by stewart edwards

I really dont think that jo public is going to be all that bothered. Those who are interested in business deals/networking will continue to join lodges that promote this sort of stuff (and before anyone tells me this doesnt happen I have seen it first hand when people were trying to get me to be involved with deals). Those who want to join a club will continue to join those who promote this. Those who are encouraged to join in their fathers footsteps will equally continue to do so. The only difference is that the internet and the discussions theirin are positively enabling non masons, and masons who perhaps feel that the "system" is letting them down, to make more informed choices about which lodge to be in. Quite frankly the man made politics of the masonic world is of little interest to anyone outwith the masonic world. It is what masons actually do in the community that is noticed and which judgements are made upon. Not which brand of masonry you happen to belong to.

Whether you realise it or not Peter is actually doing UGLE a big favour in that he is encouraging thought about the core essence of UGLE/moderns masonry. And thought is never a bad thing, for you can benefit from it and move forwards positively from it. The only people who fear thought are those who are controlled by darkness.

Freemasonry is not a point scoring exercise. Now please stop acting like bairns in the playground. I think that I heard somewhere that tolerance was a valuable thing to have in the masonic world.

Please accept my apologies now for my bluntness.

Quite right Stewart but unfortunately there are those who will not think, and the malisons of this world who simply do not have the capacity for rational thought. They are so insecure that they choose to pick a fight that they cannot win.

[kadosh]

http://ns6745.ovh.net/~godf/foreign/uk/img/monnaie1.jpg

A Concise Study Of Freemasonry In France - http://www.adsmithlor1949.org/Transa...n%20France.pdf - "Historically, one cannot prove that there was a requisite for any religious belief in the pre-Grand Lodge era. We do know that no such requirements were given in the 1723 Constitutions and it was not until 1815 that a belief in God was written into the constitutions of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England. The Bible was not introduced into the ritual until about 1760 and its status was not clearly defined. It was called both a part of the furniture and a Great Light of the lodge. ...... "

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by kadosh

http://ns6745.ovh.net/~godf/foreign/uk/img/monnaie1.jpg

A Concise Study Of Freemasonry In France - http://www.adsmithlor1949.org/Transa...n%20France.pdf - "Historically, one cannot prove that there was a requisite for any religious belief in the pre-Grand Lodge era. We do know that no such requirements were given in the 1723 Constitutions and it was not until 1815 that a belief in God was written into the constitutions of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England. The Bible was not introduced into the ritual until about 1760 and its status was not clearly defined. It was called both a part of the furniture and a Great Light of the lodge. ...... "

This ignores La Grande Loge of 1720.

The Society and Fraternity of Freemasons having been established in Paris (1720) by Charles Ratcliffe (Earl of Derwentwater), he together with Chevalier Maskelyne and M. d'Henquelty inaugurates the first French Masonic Lodge in Paris in the rue Boucheries-St Germain.

"The year 1725 is indicated as the epoch of the introduction of Freemasonry into Paris. Lord Derwentwater, the Chevalier Maskelyne. M. d'Henquelty, and some other Englishmen, established a lodge at the house of Hure, the keeper of an ordinary in the Rue des Boucheries. This Lodge acquired a great reputation, and attracted five or six hundred brethren to Masonry in the space of ten years." (SOURCE: Acta Latomorum ou Chronologie de l'Histoire de la Franche-Maçonnerie Française et Étrangére, p.21, by Claude Antoine Thory, Paris 1784)

"... we are compelled to admit the naked fact, that there was an English lodge in Paris in 1725. There is no evidence that this lodge was at that date or very soon afterwards constituted by the Grand Lodge at London." (SOURCE: History of Freemasonry by Albert Gallatin Mackey, Chapter XXXVIII)

"... most impartial historians assert that from 1720 to 1725 Freemasonry was clandestinely introduced into France by some English Masons." (SOURCE: Report made to the Grand Orient of France, contained in the Journal, La Globe, tome I., p.324, 1838)

You just can't help yourself can you?

[keystone]

I've lost track of this thread.

I'll have to go back "n" pages and start again.

Cheers

[merlincove]

Welcome back

Masonic Beliefs and Practices is open for business again.

We have dug this thread out and decided to post it back into the main forums, minus all the hoohar that got it ranted.

The thread is now open for discussion; please don't allow this one to be rant roomed to.

If in doubt, don't feed the trolls.

Enjoy.

[merlincove]

The Thread is now back home and ready to go



Please be nice.

[se19_london]

PS : Just a footnote: our website is currently being viewed by 5 visitors and 5 new website members, 24 hours of every the day. The average stay is 8 minutes. That means that every day we welcome 1,800 people to our website, and this number is rising. Only 19.5% of these are return visits. That means that we are speaking to approximately 540,000 new, interested readers per annum. Over half a million hits from new readers who no longer "generally accept" your propaganda.[/QUOTE]

GS - how many members are there in the GLAE?

Regards,

[stevepenny]

Originally Posted by kadosh

http://ns6745.ovh.net/~godf/foreign/uk/img/monnaie1.jpg

A Concise Study Of Freemasonry In France - http://www.adsmithlor1949.org/Transa...n%20France.pdf - "Historically, one cannot prove that there was a requisite for any religious belief in the pre-Grand Lodge era. We do know that no such requirements were given in the 1723 Constitutions and it was not until 1815 that a belief in God was written into the constitutions of the newly formed United Grand Lodge of England. The Bible was not introduced into the ritual until about 1760 and its status was not clearly defined. It was called both a part of the furniture and a Great Light of the lodge. ...... "

Hi Kadosh,

The above quote is not correct. A belief in God was inserted into Anderson's Constitution, Third Edition, in 1756 after his death by John Entick. Not 1815 as suggested.

Operative Masonic Ritual from 1390AD clearly indicates the Bible and it's place and purpose in the Lodge, not the date of 1760 indicated above.

[azaziel01]

I don't think the original purpose of this thread was to bait individuals.

I hope this will end

[cheeney1]

Originally Posted by azaziel01

I don't think the original purpose of this thread was to bait individuals.

I hope this will end

As I stated either this thread or another round and round the merry go round