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Old 20-11-2007, 04:14 PM   #41
lydia78
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Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
............

Yes lol. So many different meanings. Which reminds me you typed Soloman Solo man ( solar man/salamon ) sun man. What I was saying before, is that Solomon might be a symbolic, mystery school teaching, and a man named Solomon never existed. I can't remember where I read this.
wasn't it david icke...on one of his dvd's as well lol!
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Old 20-11-2007, 04:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
............

Yes lol. So many different meanings. Which reminds me you typed Soloman Solo man ( solar man/salamon ) sun man. What I was saying before, is that Solomon might be a symbolic, mystery school teaching, and a man named Solomon never existed. I can't remember where I read this.
There is evidence for the Temple of Solomon:

Quote:
April 2003

From Hebrew University of Jerusalem

"Hebrew University excavations strengthen dating of archaeological findings to David, Solomon
A new, laboratory-based affirmation of the existence of a united Israelite monarchy headed by kings David and Solomon in the 10th century B.C.E. has been revealed as the result of excavations carried out by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Institute of Archeology.

The findings have particular significance in view of the debate existing among archaeologists as to the authenticity of the biblical account of the two kings and the period and extent of their reign.

The late, famed Hebrew University archaeologist Prof.Yigael Yadin argued more than 40 years ago that a series of monumental structures – and particularly the city gates of Hazor, Megiddo and Gezer as well as certain palaces at Megiddo – were founded by Solomon, corroborating the text in I Kings 9:15. However, during the last decade various scholars criticized this view and claim that the United Monarchy of David and Solomon should be dismissed as a real historical period of any value in the history of Israel. Indeed, it has even been argued by these critics that the findings described by Yadin were only from the 9th century B.C.E., the period of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab.

Writing in the April 11 issue of Science magazine, Prof. Amihai Mazar of the Hebrew University, Dr. Hendrik Bruins of Ben-Gurion University, and Prof. Hans Van der Plicht of Groningen University, Holland, tell of their findings from excavations at Tel Rehov, located some 5 kilometers south of the town of Beit She'an in the Beit She'an Valley. The scholars argue that these findings conclusively prove that they found at Tel Rehov signs of an urban society from the 10th century B.C.E. which can be compared with finds from other sites in Israel, such as Megiddo, Hazor and Gezer, which were attributed in the past to the United Monarchy.

The excavations at Tel Rehov have been carried out since 1997 under the direction of Prof. Mazar, the Eleazar L. Sukenik Professor of Archaeology at the Hebrew University, with the financial support of John Camp of Minneapolis, Minn. The excavations revealed several strata from the time of the Judges (12-11th centuries B.C.E.) until the Assyrian conquest of Israel in the 8th century B.C.E.

In the article in Science, Mazar, Bruins and Van der Plicht write of radiometric carbon 14 tests that were carried out at Groningen University on charred grain and olive pits found in various strata at Tel Rehov. The dates achieved in this research were particularly precise, with minimal range. The authors further state that this is one of the best sets of radiometric dates based on stratigraphic sequence from any site related to the biblical period.

The results show that two strata at Tel Rehov are safely dated to the 10th century B.C.E. One stratum was destroyed in heavy fire. The date of this destruction fits very well with the reign of Shishak, the Egyptian Pharaoh who invaded the Land of Israel around 925 B.C.E. and whose invasion is mentioned both in the Bible (I Kings 14:25) and in his monumental inscription at the temple of Amun at Karnak, Egypt, where Rehov is mentioned among many other places conquered at that time.

Since the Shishak conquest occurred a few years after the death of Solomon, the identification of a city destroyed by him at Tel Rehov provides an anchor for dating other sites with similar material culture. This similar culture was found at Hazor and Megiddo in occupation levels which were identified as "Solomonic" in the past.

Thus, these results provide a new foundation for the traditional view concerning the attribution of occupation strata and buildings at Tel Rehov (and conjunctively other locales in the region ) to the time of the United Monarchy of Solomon and David, and negates the view that all these finds should be dated to the 9th century."

Source:

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2003/E/20033095.html
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Old 20-11-2007, 06:35 PM   #43
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cheers for the link titurel...good info!
just found this, if he existed he's claimed to be a very busy fella lol

GezerSolomon.jpg

"King Solomon loved, in addition to the daughter of Pharaoh, many foreign woman, Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian and Hittite women, from the nations concerning which the Lord had warned the Israelites. "You must not cohabit with them, nor they with you, for they will certainly turn your hearts to their gods". Solomon held fast to them in love. He had 700 official wives and 300 concubines...."

The Holy Bible 1 Kings 11:1-3

http://www.kingsolomonsgate.com/
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Old 20-11-2007, 09:02 PM   #44
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King Solomon lost favour with God for allowing himself to fall under the guiles and deceptions of witchcraft. Even the elect, such as wise King Solomon, can be deceived, as is recorded:

Quote:
"As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done. On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. He did the same for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods.

The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD's command. So the LORD said to Solomon, "Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen." - 1 Kings 11:4-13

"The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents, not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the land." - 1 Kings 10:14
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Old 20-11-2007, 11:29 PM   #45
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That was very interesting and I have a question or two:

"Satanists and occultists use the pentagram to call upon demons--to practice white magic and black magic."

What is the difference between 'Satanists and occultists' and 'white magic and black magic'?

"The source of its rituals and symbols is from paganism and witchcraft"

Whats a good pagan/witchcraft source to find references to these rituals and symbols?


"The Bible calls these spiritual beings demons, with God forbidding such practices completely."

Are any reasons for this put forward by anyone?

"Enoch is also the central figure around which a great deal of Masonic legend is centered, as he is said to have constructed the two pillars of Masonic lore to preserve the antediluvian high knowledge of Atlantis inside them"

"as well as the meaning of Boaz, the left-hand pillar in the Porchway of Solomon's Temple"


Could you explain any connection between these two extracts concerning Pillars?

I encourage you to post more about freemasonry and Mystery School history.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:28 AM   #46
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Here's a good definition of black magick that's also a very interesting read:

Quote:
The Secret Teachings of All Ages

by Manly P. Hall

Chapter: Ceremonial Magic and Sorcery

Ceremonial magic is the ancient art of invoking and controlling spirits by a scientific application of certain formulæ. A magician, enveloped in sanctified vestments and carrying a wand inscribed with hieroglyphic figures, could by the power vested in certain words and symbols control the invisible inhabitants of the elements and of the astral world. While the elaborate ceremonial magic of antiquity was not necessarily evil, there arose from its perversion several false schools of sorcery, or black magic.

Egypt, a great center of learning and the birthplace of many arts and sciences, furnished an ideal environment for transcendental experimentation. Here the black magicians of Atlantis continued to exercise their superhuman powers until they had completely undermined and corrupted the morals of the primitive Mysteries. By establishing a sacerdotal caste they usurped the position formerly occupied by the initiates, and seized the reins of spiritual government. Thus black magic dictated the state religion and paralyzed the intellectual and spiritual activities of the individual by demanding his complete and unhesitating acquiescence in the dogma formulated by the priestcraft. The Pharaoh became a puppet in the hands of the Scarlet Council--a committee of arch-sorcerers elevated to power by the priesthood.

These sorcerers then began the systematic destruction of all keys to the ancient wisdom, so that none might have access to the knowledge necessary to reach adeptship without first becoming one of their order. They mutilated the rituals of the Mysteries while professing to preserve them, so that even though the neophyte passed through the degrees he could not secure the knowledge to which he was entitled. Idolatry was introduced by encouraging the worship of the images which in the beginning the wise had erected solely as symbols for study and meditation. False interpretations were given to the emblems and figures of the Mysteries, and elaborate theologies were created to confuse the minds of their devotees. The masses, deprived of their birthright of understanding and groveling in ignorance, eventually became the abject slaves of the spiritual impostors. Superstition universally prevailed and the black magicians completely dominated national affairs, with the result that humanity still suffers from the sophistries of the priestcrafts of Atlantis and Egypt.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:36 AM   #47
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cheers for the link titurel...good info!
just found this, if he existed he's claimed to be a very busy fella lol

Attachment 1301

"King Solomon loved, in addition to the daughter of Pharaoh, many foreign woman, Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian and Hittite women, from the nations concerning which the Lord had warned the Israelites. "You must not cohabit with them, nor they with you, for they will certainly turn your hearts to their gods". Solomon held fast to them in love. He had 700 official wives and 300 concubines...."

The Holy Bible 1 Kings 11:1-3

http://www.kingsolomonsgate.com/
Yes, and did you also know that God, not only never intended man to worship in temples, but that he also never intended his people to have kings to lord and rule over them? You may already know that but not many people do!

Up until the time of Samuel, the Israelites had no king. However, they looked around at neighbouring nations and became envious that these other nations had kings, so because most of them were typical humans, they demanded from God that they should have a king also. After the plea for a king, God warned the Israelites that if they elected to have a king rule over them, he would send their sons off to wars, their daughters would become servants and they would be taxed. Even upon hearing this sound advice from God, the Israelites still insisted on having a king, so a king they got and all the things that God warned about came to pass... what a surprise!

God's Warning against Electing to have Kings and Rulers

Quote:
"This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots."
Context of the above words:

Quote:
"And the LORD told him: 'Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do.'

Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said,

'This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day.'

But the people refused to listen to Samuel. 'No!' they said. 'We want a king over us. Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.'

When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. The LORD answered, 'Listen to them and give them a king.' " - 1 Samuel 8:7-22
God listened to the People crying out for a king and he gave them what they wanted. Now we have "King" George on the "throne" of America coveting the World!

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Old 21-11-2007, 12:42 AM   #48
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Behind both "The Law" and the Royal Family was the priest-hood that upheld and enforced "The Law" (Their Law), which provides them with all power. Nothing has changed even until today. Extended Family members of the original blood-line stemming from the founder of the priest-hood became the Pharaohs and their network of aristocrats. With the high-priesthood guiding Pharaoh and enforcing "The Law" of Pharaoh (Seen as God), the black-magic image crafting priest-hood had immense power right up to our current leaders of Britain, & America amongst other European nations. Family members of the illumined blood-line priesthood would marry into the families of other tribes to continue consolidating all power for the Egyptian High Priesthood. This inter-marrying generally still occurs today.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:43 AM   #49
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The first very clever Egyptian High Priest crafted numerous fantasy Images (constructs) that enchanted the communities of Ancient Egypt and it has always been through the crafting of their very clever black-magic images that maintained their higher standing (power & control) over the people.
The evolution of their black-magic craft evolved as they sought more power and control over the known lands and peoples of the world. To impress new tribes to join Egypt's ever-expanding empire Pharaoh was glorified as an all mighty powerful God. Through war or through treaties Egypt's expanding empire gradually spread around the globe. As Pharaoh's power grew so did the Images (constructs) to convey this thought. They started building smaller temples & palaces that gradually evolved across the ages into massive Pyramids and Sphinxes etc.

For thousands of years money (fiat - credit creation/debt-finance - usury) did not exist in Egypt. Near and far tribes continued bartering/trading their goods and services between each other, produced by their labour. A % of their goods and services were given to Pharaoh which benefited the high priest-hood. Metals, jewels, silks and spices etc were being traded or stolen by war and conquest. As it has always been and up to around the 17th/18th centuries, 99.99% of the population worked the lands, growing food or tendered to their flocks of goats, sheep or cattle etc. They bartered/traded their crops, flocks and wares at markets etc. The serfs/commoners were also dragged of to war and were generally rewarded with victory or they died or ended up as slaves to the victors.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:44 AM   #50
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It was not until the times of Babylon that the idea of money (fiat, credit creation/debt finance) was crafted. Money/usury was knocked on the head by the people who rose up and destroyed this system, becoming the altered Bible folk-lore of Jesus turning the tables of the money changers and the Christian Religion years later. Babylon was Egypt under the guise of a different religious-occultic-esoteric sects. The high priest hood evolved primarily three major religious sects which worshiped the moon, the sun and saturn but there were many others as well. As part of their divide and rule/order out of chaos, the high priesthood continued to adapt to be sure they always had power and control over the people. They did this by creating new images (constructs) all the time, they crafted names like Atlantis, Sumeria, Phoenicia, Minoa, Babylon, Canaan, the 13 tribes of Israel (not 12), amongst many other names for nations. New Languages were crafted on Par with their inventions of these new nations/civilisations. By constant adaptations the high priest hood unfolded an elaborate and very long recording of their history. A history that is written in language code so that those who are initiated to the codes can decipher, while the other 99.99% of the population were fed lies.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:46 AM   #51
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Prior to 99.99% of the population being forced to learn the Fantasy English language, all serfs/commoners were renters. They owned nothing and with their blood, sweat & tears they worked to pay their masters either with a % of their crops or with other trades, services or wares. This enabled them to have land and a roof over their heads. The serfs generally had no money and they bartered/traded with each other.
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Old 21-11-2007, 12:53 AM   #52
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That was very interesting and I have a question or two:

"Satanists and occultists use the pentagram to call upon demons--to practice white magic and black magic."

What is the difference between 'Satanists and occultists' and 'white magic and black magic'?
Black magic is performed by those who are aware that what their doing is not in humanity's collective interest.

White magic, as is commonly understood, is IMO merely the outer portico of black magic, where practitioners practise what they do with the best of intentions but are naively being misled by a complex disguises of what their really involved in. I know what I'm saying will anger some, but I'm not going to get het up with them because I'm more concerned with those that have power and influence over our lives, rather than with those that don't...

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Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
"The source of its rituals and symbols is from paganism and witchcraft"
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post

Whats a good pagan/witchcraft source to find references to these rituals and symbols?
Doing a Google search for "Masonic rituals" may help...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
"The Bible calls these spiritual beings demons, with God forbidding such practices completely."
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post

Are any reasons for this put forward by anyone?
I'm not sure what you mean, please clarify!

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Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post
"Enoch is also the central figure around which a great deal of Masonic legend is centered, as he is said to have constructed the two pillars of Masonic lore to preserve the antediluvian high knowledge of Atlantis inside them"
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Originally Posted by cruise4 View Post

"as well as the meaning of Boaz, the left-hand pillar in the Porchway of Solomon's Temple"

Could you explain any connection between these two extracts concerning Pillars?
King Solomon had to build theTemple, but someone from outside had to undertake the actual construction of it and that was Hiram of Tyre, probably related to Cain. The Temple included a representation of two important pillars, Jachim an Boaz, which are said to have originated from before the flood.

Here's Josephus' account of the history of the actual pillars, from his "Antiquities of the Jews", Book I, Chapter II:

Quote:
"Now Adam, who was the first man, and made out of the earth, (for our discourse must now be about him,) after Abel was slain, and Cain fled away, on account of his murder, was solicitous for posterity, and had a vehement desire of children, he being two hundred and thirty years old; after which time he lived other seven hundred, and then died. He had indeed many other children, (8) but Seth in particular. As for the rest, it would be tedious to name them; I will therefore only endeavor to give an account of those that proceeded from Seth. Now this Seth, when he was brought up, and came to those years in which he could discern what was good, became a virtuous man; and as he was himself of an excellent character, so did he leave children behind him who imitated his virtues. (9) All these proved to be of good dispositions. They also inhabited the same country without dissensions, and in a happy condition, without any misfortunes falling upon them, till they died. They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order. And that their inventions might not be lost before they were sufficiently known, upon Adam's prediction that the world was to be destroyed at one time by the force of fire, and at another time by the violence and quantity of water, they made two pillars, (10) the one of brick, the other of stone: they inscribed their discoveries on them both, that in case the pillar of brick should be destroyed by the flood, the pillar of stone might remain, and exhibit those discoveries to mankind; and also inform them that there was another pillar of brick erected by them. Now this remains in the land of Siriad to this day." (Siriad is Egypt)

Last edited by titurel; 21-11-2007 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 21-11-2007, 03:02 AM   #53
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"The Bible calls these spiritual beings demons, with God forbidding such practices completely."

I was wonderinmg if anyone knew WHY God forbade this. Do any supposed reasons exist?
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Old 21-11-2007, 03:40 AM   #54
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"The Bible calls these spiritual beings demons, with God forbidding such practices completely."

I was wonderinmg if anyone knew WHY God forbade this. Do any supposed reasons exist?
Because these beings are fallen angels, demons whose leader is elsewhere described in the Bible as Reptilian in nature... the Serpent, the Dragon that Revelation describes as the power behind the rulers of the world. That's why, of course, the NWO agenda is also described as the Reptilian agenda.
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Old 21-11-2007, 09:10 AM   #55
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That was very interesting and I have a question or two:

"Satanists and occultists use the pentagram to call upon demons--to practice white magic and black magic."

Hi Cruise, you have to appreciate some of the links i provided were from the Christian perspective, and they will always perceive any magic as dark...but actually the tools themselves are neutral energy...like a sword, a gun, a pen what have you...it all boils down to the intention of the user at the end of the day. However, 'white magic' refers to the intent, it is a practice that is used but only when the user has aligned themselves with their higher attributes, have done the inner work, know thyself, trust thyself, love thyself are the foundations, which sounds pretty egoic but in fact by doing these things we can know others, empthy, compassion, altrusim, connection to the creator etc comes into play, and we can respond and transmute negatives...bringing them back to neutral..
This is a very long process but many (especially of the 'new age, instant gratification era) take shortcuts and dont do the inner work, this is where they fall apart, hence the new age conspiracy lol...but yes the pentagram can be used to do whatever the user intends...whether that is summoning demonics or neutralising that energy.


What is the difference between 'Satanists and occultists' and 'white magic and black magic'?

Again, it boils down to the intent of the user..satanists are directing their energy to satan, occultists dont neccessarily do this, in fact it is very rare i meet a divination user to find them doing it for 'dark intent'...I believe some can leave their psychic channels wide open and they encounter 'neg's' or lower plain spirits, but this is true for many people, we are by nature psychic...its the conditioning that has reserved the doubt for us..but when undertaking occultism, it should be treated with respect and the inner work should take presidence over the ego's want to 'try out the cards' or 'dabble' this is not reccomended...once we have our ego's in check that is not repressed by the 'super ego' to use a freudian term, not suppressed by our fears, but when it is in harmony or centred the ego is a good tool.

"The source of its rituals and symbols is from paganism and witchcraft"

Whats a good pagan/witchcraft source to find references to these rituals and symbols?

i would always reccommend checking it all out, and then do your cross referencing...check out the sources and what perspective their coming from...its an on going process finding a really 'good' source, a bit like conspiracy writers lol

"The Bible calls these spiritual beings demons, with God forbidding such practices completely."

Are any reasons for this put forward by anyone?

Well the bible is biased in its opinion inho lol


"Enoch is also the central figure around which a great deal of Masonic legend is centered, as he is said to have constructed the two pillars of Masonic lore to preserve the antediluvian high knowledge of Atlantis inside them"

"as well as the meaning of Boaz, the left-hand pillar in the Porchway of Solomon's Temple"


Could you explain any connection between these two extracts concerning Pillars?

There is alchemical significance regarding the pillars: The outer pillars of the temple are called the "Pillars of Enoch". Enoch, fearing that the principles of the Arts and Sciences might be lost, erected two pillars, the one of marble to withstand fire, the other of brass to resist water. On each he engraved all the knowledge which he feared would be lost. The globes are symbols of unity, peace and plenty. These pillars also support the "Rainbow" which is sometimes associated with the Holy Royal Arch. It is also called the "Arch of Heaven", symbolic of the architectural arch.

http://www.masonicworld.com/educatio...twopillars.htm

I encourage you to post more about freemasonry and Mystery School history.
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Old 21-11-2007, 02:33 PM   #56
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you have to appreciate some of the links i provided were from the Christian perspective, and they will always perceive any magic as dark...
That's blatantly false propaganda and it also depends how you define 'magic' in the first place and context. The essence of life itself is 'magic' and I've not come across any Christians who say that there is darkness in pure spirit. Like you said, it depends how spirit is used, and using it for selfish purposes is dark, so you were at least right on that score.
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Old 22-11-2007, 09:22 AM   #57
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That's blatantly false propaganda and it also depends how you define 'magic' in the first place and context. The essence of life itself is 'magic' and I've not come across any Christians who say that there is darkness in pure spirit. Like you said, it depends how spirit is used, and using it for selfish purposes is dark, so you were at least right on that score.

Is it blatant false propaganda?
Is it unfair to say christians disprove of the harry potter stories for example or divination systems?
Individual differences do matter here but the majority seem to implicate divination or psychic ability as being tied down to the dark forces..well at least in my experience of conversing with Christians anyway.
There are many factions of christianity who vary in their belief systems...it gets a bit confusing when so many factions stand under the umberella of Christianity.
wiki said:
"Christian views on magic vary widely across denominational and individual barriers, and are often influenced by scriptural, theological, and historical considerations. Some Christians actively condemn any form of magic as satanic while others do not or simply dismiss it as superstition."

If this is wrong then by all means I'm open to hearing a different interpretation, as we are all learning here...
you are spot on with the interpretation of magic, very well put too!!
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Old 22-11-2007, 09:47 AM   #58
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This is weird, a friend of mine lent me a book, written by Robert Lomas, published by Lewis Masonic and over seen by Martin Faulks...who happens to be one of my 'friends on myspace' not that we communicate, not sure when i added him tbh,....however, 'Turning the Templar Key' is a book about masons written by masons...so I thought I'd have a look and see how far they were prepared to go in writing about their craft. It does go into certain rites and rituals...some half truths and 'history', but what is their angle in writing such a book?

Turns out that martin faulks is the first Freemason ever to appear on national television and talk openly about what it was like to go though the Masonic initiation ceremonies. The appearance was on BBC's Sunday morning religious programme The Heaven and Earth Show. Martin is also the author of numerous articles on Freemasonry and has contributed to magazines such as 'Freemasonry Today', The Square and the Scottish magazine The Ashlar.

So why have the masons got a 'poster boy' all of a sudden? what is their game? What do they hope to acheive by going public? are they trying to create a new image?? Anyone got any ideas other than the disinfo
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Old 22-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #59
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Default the kirkwall scroll

According to Robert Lomas, the Kirkwall Scroll is the oldest masonic document, and shows the symbolic spiritual journey of Freemasonry. The scroll has been radiocarbon dated to round 1490 CE. This around the time that Freemasonry was established in Scotland by the St Clairs of Roslin.

kirkwebscroll.jpg
Lodge No 38' Kirkwall Kilwinning, Castle Street, Kirkwall

The Scroll, measures 18 feet 6 inches in length, and 5 feet 6 inches in width. The material of which it is composed is a strong linen, and consists of a full width of cloth in the centre with a divided width sewn along each side.
It occupies the west wall of the Lodge room, but the height of the apartment is not sufficient to show the whole scroll at one time.
It is very roughly painted in oil; the emblem down the centre being mainly in pale blue, but the top panel shows some attempt to imitate nature, the hills being brown, the sea green, the trees brown, and ground reddish, Eve and the animals and fishes pink. On each side of the centre strip runs a ribbon of three colours ‑ blue, yellow and green ‑ the blue being inside. On the left side the rivers and cities are green, the trees and hills brown, and the same may be said of the other side, the tents and symbols being, however, blue. The margin all round is a dark slate colour.

kirkwallmarks.jpg

The border on the spectator's left hand would seem to represent a map of the wanderings of the Hebrews until their settlement in Egypt. The rivers Tigris and Euphrates run down the centre, through a pastoral country almost devoid of cities, but in the lower‑most panel we are landed in Egypt, with the "Nillus" running through it, and many cities and buildings depicted. The right hand border should apparently be read from the bottom to the top, and seems to portray the wanderings of the Israelites in the desert. The central ribbon is not a river but evidently a road and is marked off in years, beginning at year 1, and ending at the year 46. We start from the Land of Midian and Mount Sinai, and have the first camp, the fall of Manna, a graveyard, the Waters of the Rock, the Worship of the Golden Calf, Sepulchre of Sarah, or Aaron, the elevation of the Serpent, &c., &c., while at the 46th year the road branches into numerous small paths, one leading to a building which probably is intended for the Temple at Jerusalem. Both margins, especially the right hand one, are covered with place and city names, but Bro. R. Muir, who has kindly collated our drawings with the original for me, writes that "The names appear to be of more modern date than the scroll itself, and have not been all written at the same time even, the ink is different and fresher in certain instances, and some of the writing is plainly by a different hand."


The central panels speak for themselves. They commence at the top with Eve and the animals in the Garden of Eden ‑but why Adam is omitted would be difficult to say ‑ and end at the bottom with the Craft degrees. There are several cryptograms, some of which I have deciphered, but others have eluded my skill. At the very top is one such word and another will be found at the base of the hour‑glass‑like figure in the second panel. On the cornice of the altar within the Arch, is a third. The next panel shows a cryptogram on the face of the altar, which I have partially solved, the chief difficulty consisting in the fact that many of th e characters are incorrectly depicted. But, making the needful alterations, it reads :-

I am hath sent me

unto you. I am that

I am; I am the Rose

of Sharon and the Lily

of the valley. Hegee

as her hejah. I am

that I am, or I will

bee that I will bee

Jaldadaiah.

To the left of this is something which might be a highlander's feather bonnet, or a fountain, or even a tree, with a scroll beneath. On the ribbon is a word thrice repeated, which if written in the same cypher would read, Jugee Jugee Jugee! If not in the same cypher, then it is almost impossible to guess what it means, as there is not enough of it to furnish a clue. The words Three Three Three would obviously be possible,* and it may be an allusion to the 3 x 3 so well known in Masonry. The altar in the lowest panel has also a cryptogram on its cornice and face, which, being transliterated without making any allowance for incorrect writing, reads:

1 Chronikils, 2d captr 48, 49

Judges cgaptr 12, 6, 7

Hensis Chapr 4, 22

1 Kings, chapr 7, 21

Mashew Cgapr, 16, 18

This represents the kind of faults to be found in the verses given above; they arise from the want of a dot, or the redundance of one, or from a line more or less in the different characters.

It may be worthy of consideration whether the original purpose of the scroll was not to serve as a floor cloth for the Lodge, for which its size would be suitable. The earliest form of our modern movable tracing board was that of a floor cloth, consisting of various symbolic designs, of which the mosaic pavement was usually, though not always, a feature. The actual tracing board, sometimes called also a square, was black. Gradually the design was transferred to the board, and the floor cloth preserved only the pavement. If this supposition be correct, the date of the scroll would fall into the first half of the eighteenth century, or very little later. Failing some clue, which we can scarcely hope to find except at Kirkwall, itself, its origin is likely to remain a mystery. The scroll can scarcely have been intended to hang on the wall, as it does now; unless, indeed, a lodge chamber 20 feet high was contemplated! ‑ G. W. Speth.

http://www.lodgecraigellachie.co.uk/...l/Kirkwall.htm
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Old 22-11-2007, 10:52 AM   #60
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The following appears in the Daily Telegraph, 22nd July 2000:

"Masonic Lodge's Secret Scroll "is £8 million treasure" by Thomas Harding

A secret scroll which has been hanging in a Masonic Lodge in the Orkney Islands for almost three centuries is thought to be one of the most significant recent finds in Britain.

The Kirkwall Scroll, depicting secrets of the Knights Templar, has been carbon dated to the 15th Century, greatly increasing its significance.

The Masonic Lodge in Orkney was unaware it possessed a priceless medieval treasure, thinking it was from the 18th Century.

Andrew Sinclair, a Cambridge History Don claims that the little known Kirkwall Scroll, which he says could be worth £8 million, is second in value only to the famous 13th Century Mapa Mundi which hangs in Hereford Cathedral, and was valued at £7 million by Sothebys in 1989.

Mr Sinclair, who heard about the Scroll while researching the history St Clair Earls of Orkney, said "Its significance is immense. This will demand the rewriting of Scots medieval history."
Mr Sinclair, a descendant of the St Clairs, was allowed access to the Scroll and took a piece of it a away for carbon testing. The 18 foot sailcloth hanging is said to contain ancient Freemason and Templar symbols of great significance, including clues for the trail to the Holy Grail.
Parts of the scroll date from the 18th and early 19th Centuries.

The St Clair Earls of Orkney have been strongly associated with the legendary Knights Templar and secret orders.

Mr Sinclair said the Kirkwall Scroll is unique in that it proves how the ancient knowledge amassed by the Knights Templar during the Crusades has been passed on into Freemasonry by the St Clairs, to safeguard it.
But Mr Sinclair's proposal to remove it for safekeeping has incensed the Freemasons.
"Anything is priceless if you've got a market for it, so his sensation-making claims of it being worth millions mean nothing," said a spokesman.
"It is priceless to us and we have safeguarded it well for more than two and a half centuries."
"No-one can have access without special permission and it is protected from the light, so we would urge "Leave well alone." ."
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