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Old 12-08-2009, 06:44 PM   #1
eternal_spirit
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Default Child/baby head cutting ritual


Parental love is instinctive both in animals and in humans. These pictures are to show the level of brainwashing that it takes to make a parent harm and mutilate his own toddler to appease his imaginary deity.

A Shiite mother rejoices after inflicting wounds on the head of her toddler

A loving father teaching "religious values" to his son, Islamic way.

A proud mother watching her son bleed. The more pain the greater the reward. After this she is assured of paradise.



Some Shiites believe cutting children honors a 7th-century Muslim leader
• Kids as young as a monthold and men as old as 100 are slashed
Ashura marks the decapitation of their most revered Saint Imam Hussein
• Rite continues despite being banned in Lebanon


Young Iraqi Shiite boys have their foreheads slashed to honor the Ashura, the tenth day of Muharram when Imam Hussein was killed in the Battle of Karbala in the year 680.


NABATIYEH, Lebanon (AP) -- The 6-year-old boy screamed and shook his head to avoid the razor blade. But his father held him firmly as Hajj Khodor parted the boy's black hair and sliced his forehead three times with the blade.
Ali Madani's cries became more violent as blood gushed from the wound, covering his small, terrified face.
His father and a few other men, waving daggers, broke into a religious chant, recalling how the 7th-century Shiite Muslim saint, Imam Hussein, was decapitated, his head placed on a lance. (Watch Shiites flagellate themselves as part of an Ashura ritual )
In marking the holiest day of Ashura, some Shiites believe children should learn at an early age about Hussein's suffering, which is at the heart of their faith.
Lebanon's top Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, has banned bloodletting during Ashura, even for adults.
Clerics in mainly Shiite Iran forbid it as well, saying the practice is un-Islamic because it harms the body.

But traditions die hard, especially in a rite as fervent and emotional as Ashura, marked Tuesday by Shiites across the Islamic world. (Attacks on Shiite pilgrims kill 38 in Iraq)
Toddlers and babies cut

In the southern Lebanese town of Nabatiyeh, hundreds of nervous young boys -- ranging from early teens to toddlers -- were ushered by their fathers into a hall hung with black banners and paintings of Hussein's last moments.
Hajj Khodor, a businessman and organizer of the Ashura ceremonies, and several other men wiped blades with alcohol before swiping each boy three or four times on the forehead.
Some boys cried and resisted, but the cutting proceeded.
"We're used to it," said Mahmoud Jaber, 43, who brought his five boys and two girls for the ritual. "We've been doing this since we were kids. I started when I was 3. It doesn't hurt because the cry of pain goes away with the faith."
Hussein Shihab, 13, wrapped in a white sheet symbolizing Hussein's burial shroud, said he felt a burning sting -- "from the alcohol" -- as the blade hit.
His father, Jaber Shihab, told Hussein not to be "a wimp," and to "be brave" as a reporter photographed him after the cut.
It was "for the sake of Hussein" that he had his head cut, the boy said. "Because blood came from Hussein's head. They cut his head off and blood flowed."
For their blood, cookies and juice

In the Ashura rites, Shiites march in huge processions, beating their chests in mourning for Hussein's martyrdom at Karbala -- a city in present-day Iraq -- in A.D. 680. The most fervent cut themselves with swords or razors or lash themselves with razor-lined chains to draw blood.
The bloodletting is a reminder of Hussein's suffering, as well as punishment for the failure of Muslims to help Hussein in his battle against Islamic ruler Yazid, leader of what became the majority Sunni branch of Islam.
Hussein was the son of Ali, the Prophet Muhammad's cousin, who Shiites believe should have been his rightful successor. The loss at Karbala effectively consigned Shiites to minority status in the Islamic world -- and it became a symbol of the sense of oppression that runs through the sect's beliefs.
Women in Ashura processions usually confine themselves to striking their chests with their fists, without drawing blood. But in Shiite areas of Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India and elsewhere, processions of men marched drenched in blood -- along with boys.
In the Nabatiyeh hall, splashes of bright red blood covered the floor from the cutting. Some of the children held back tears and tried to put on a brave face as Hajj Khodor sliced the skin of their foreheads.
Their reward was fruit juice and cookies.
A father shoved a pacifier into his toddler's screaming mouth, the boy's forehead stained with blood.
Ali Madani's screams did not save the 6-year-old from the razor blade. His father, Bilal Madani, said his son was crying because the smell of blood scared him.
Afterward, Ali said he was happy he had gone through with it -- "for Hussein's sake."
What did he expect in return?
"God will make me do well in school," he said, sipping juice from a straw.
Hajj Khodor, wrapped in white and wearing a white turban, said he has done cuttings on boys as young as 1-month-old and men as old as 100.
Asked if it was difficult for him to hurt the children, he said: "The child doesn't understand what's going on. The parents are faithful and believe by doing this, their children will be protected and will enjoy a long life."
Hind Abinabi, a 52-year-old Shiite woman and mother of four, said to maim children was not only cruel, but also against the religion.
"When the rest of the world is going to the moon, look where these people are -- still drawing blood from their heads," she said.
One boy's screams and resistance Tuesday did pay off.
"No, no, I don't want it," the terrified boy kept yelling at the top of his voice.
After a few failed attempts, his mother quietly walked him down the stairs and out of the hall
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:50 PM   #2
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This is the fourth time you've posted this ES. What happened? Not enough bad feeling created the last 3 times?
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:52 PM   #3
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The practice of circumcision in Islam comes from the Hadith, Shariah law and the consensus of Islamic communities.

The Hadith

Narrated Umm Atiyyah al-Ansariyyah: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to her: Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband. (Sunan Abu-Dawud: book 41, number 5251, Hasan)

Part 2.
The Shariah

The following reference to Shariah law comes from Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Reliance of the Traveller - A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law. This book comes with the approval al-Azhar University.

Al-Azhar University ( الأزهر الشريف) is the leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world.

Circumcision was introduced to the Iranians through Islam

However the practice has a long history in the middle east and was closely related to rituals dedicated to ancient gods and goddesses of fertility. Ancient Mesopotamian had festivals where the actual organ of a young boy was cut off and dedicated to the fertility goddess. The action was later reduced to inducing an incision instead. The blood was offered to the goddess and the occasion was celebrated publicly. In the old kingdom of Egypt myth contended that blood from circumcision to guarantee the fertility realted to the river Nile, and early Egpytian myth contended that blood from circumcision of another god fell down and created the universe. In one document from Egypt a man is stating that he was circumcised with 120 males and 120 females.

The prophet Muhammad himself is quoted as saying " It is an ordinance in men and honourable in women" indicating that the practise is very strongly urged, if not required outright. Many Islamic theologians have insisted that Muhammed and indeed all prophets were born circumcised. It is practised on Both male an female children born to Muslim parents as well of males of any age who join the religion. Most literature regarding circumcision is found in "hadith" these are narratives, sayings and deeds of prophet and his associates recorded by Muslim scholars and biographers. Legal discussions in the hadith literature about it resemble Talmudic discussions on issues of religious importance to Jews. Additionally the language used by the arabic sources evokes the more familiar Hebrew terminology.

Like the Quran, the different reports in the Hadith literature reveal little information concerning the reasons for male circumcision among Muslims. On the other hand reports point to one's status as a Muslim, a practitioner of the faith of Allah. Similarily other traditions teach that certain Islamic practices require the participants to be circumcise Muslims. These can include coversion, pilgramage to Mecca, inheritance, even prayer.

Shiite traditions regard the practice obligatory and tend to lead toward the extreme side on the issue. One account relates that the earth cries out to god in anguish on account of the uncircumcised. Another notes that Muslims should circumcise their sons on the seventh day, if not the earth becomes ritually contaminated for 40 days. Hadith are reported that the Prophet's grandsons Hassan and Husayn were circumcised on the seventh day after their birth and Fatima herself is quoted talking about her son's circumcision on this day.

The most common hadith attributed to the Prophet himself, mentions it in a list of practices known as "fitrah" meaning natural way or instinct. Abu Hurayra a companion of the prophet quotes, "five things are fitrah: circumcision, shaving the body with a razor, trimming the moustache, paring one's nails and plucking the hair from one's armpits" (al-Bukhari, al-Jami' al-sahih)
more here really bizzare
http://www.iranchamber.com/culture/a...rcumcision.php
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krakhead View Post
This is the fourth time you've posted this ES. What happened? Not enough bad feeling created the last 3 times?

It's important to tell the truth right? First thread I've dedicated to relgious rituals
Believe me this will be a good thread exposing sick rituals.

Last edited by eternal_spirit; 12-08-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:55 PM   #5
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Some Moslems do circumcise the women.
The following copy is from http://www.dhushara.com/book/orsin/rites/rite.htm

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As part of the initiation rite, these girls have little choice but to undergo circumcision. 13 December, 2000 Kenyan girls win circumcision ban Female Circumcision: A Summary - (Jan Goodwin Price of Honour) A major campaign of Saadawi's organization before the government closed it was to halt female circumcision. "The majority of rural Egyptian women are still circumcised. Here they remove only the clitoris; they do not do the much more extensive procedure, but even so, there are many problems. Infection, bleeding, damage to the urinary tract, sepsis, even death. Later, it may cause pain during coitus, and psychological damage. In the villages it is performed on girls just before puberty, by untrained village midwives using any kind of knife or razor, without painkillers, and in unsanitary conditions. In the middle and upper classes, it may be carried out by a doctor. The reasons given for clitoridectomies in Egypt are 'cleanliness,' and 'so that girls will not run after men."'
..........................



In many societies, it is also believed that if the baby's head touches the clitoris during delivery, the infant will die. Female circumcision is frequently described as an "age-old Muslim ritual," when in fact it predates Islam and is even believed to be pre-Judaic. There is no mention of it in the Koran, and only a brief mention in the authentic hadiths, which states: "A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet said to her: 'Do not cut severely, as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.' But because of this still debated hadz'th, some scholars of the Shari school of Islam, found mostly in East Africa, consider female circumcision obligatory. 'I'he Hanafi and most other schools maintain it is merely recommended, not essential. In the nineteenth century, women in the United States and Europe were sometimes circumcised because it was believed to relieve epilepsy, hysteria, and insanity. Today, an estimated one hundred million women have undergone the sexual mutilation. It is performed in many African countries, including Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Chad. It is also a tradition among Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia, and in a number of countries in the Middle East, including Egypt, the UAE, and parts of rural Saudi Arabia. Coptic Christians in Egypt and animist tribes in Africa as well as Muslims, undergo the ritual. More than 90 percent of Sudanese women undergo the most severe form of circumcision, known as "pharaonic," or infibulation, at the age of seven or eight, which removes all of the clitoris, the labia minora, and the labia majora. The sides are then sutured together, often with thorns, and only a small matchstick-diameter opening is left for urine and menstrual flow. The girl's legs are tied together and liquids are heavily rationed until the incision is healed. During this primitive yet major surgery, it is not uncommon for girls, who are held down by female relatives, to die from shock or hemorrhage of the vagina, urethra, bladder, and rectal area may also be damaged, and massive keloid scarring can obstruct walking for life. After marriage, women who have been infibulated must be forcibly penetrated. "This may take up to forty days, and when men are impatient, a knife is used," recounted Sudanese women at a conference that I attended several years ago in Cairo on the "Development of Women in the Islamic World." They also told of special honeymoon centers built outside communities so that the "screams of the brides will not be heard." At this time also, the risks of infection and hemorrhaging are high. During childbirth, the scar tissue must be cut and the opening enlarged, otherwise mother and child may die. In the mid-eighties, American Nursing magazine began advising medical practitioners in the United States how to treat such patients, since the influx of women from countries where circumcision is standard meant that U.S. health-care providers were now seeing them in hospitals here. And if such cases are not handled correctly, major complications can ensue. The tradition of female circuincis'on in many countries is so strong that circumcised women even in the United States usually request reinfibulation after each delivery.
Nawal El Saadawi 1980 The Naked (Hidden) Face of Eve 1. The Question That No One Would Answer 2. The Very Fine Membrane Called 'Honour' 3. Circumcision of Girls Alice Walker 1991 Possessing the Secret of Joy
Circumcision in Religion: Judaism, Christianity and Islam I docunent the traditional religious history of circumcision. As a male circumcised against my will, I request all religions to cease the practice of circumcision, even for men, to act as a good example against this practice of sexually-exploitive mutilation.
Abrogating Religious Laws which permit Violence to the Female Help me abrogate violent laws in ancient texts by supporting the Renewal. Help me oppose the torture of women by fundamenalists worldwide. You don't have to believe in me, just support me and I will stand against injustice against the female. Disembowelling Pregnant Women in Algeria 200 killed in a Week.

In the 12-week old fetus it is impossible to distinguish male penis from female clitoris. Neither is "unclean". (The Human Body BBC) Marcus Maybury and David Hecht - 27th November 1996 On a cloudy afternoon last month, thousands of women danced through the shabby streets of Freetown, Sierra Leone. Most were members of Bundo, a female secret society whose initiation rite includes female "circumcision' - removal of the clitoris, cutting of the labia or stitching up the genital lips. Uninitiated girls led tile throng, followed by elders and a sea of women singing, ringing bells and beating drums. It felt like a party - until the parade reached Dr Olayinka KosoThomas' clinic. There the crowd angrily chided KosoThomas, a critic of female circumcision, calling her ogborrka - uninitiated and dirty. They laid cursed charms at the clinic door and waved' placards that read Agent Of The West. Then the mob began to chant, "Let's circumcise her here and now." Practitioners of female circumcision are striking back in Sierra Leone. The procedure is common throughout Africa, a rite of passage from adolescence to adulthood in countries as disparate as Egypt, Kenya and Liberia. Since the early 90s, Western development agencies and women's groups have criticised the practice, arguing that it brutalises women and puts their health at risk. They claim that as many as 130 million African women from at least 22 countries have been cut.
The natural homology between the sex organs is not dirty or uninitiated. It is central to the way human society evolved through the independence of women to unite sexually with the partners they 'love' through both sexes retaining the germinal clitoris. Various forms of circumcision and infibulation vary from Muhammad's warning 'reduce, but do not destroy' - clearly intended to leave at least part of the clitoris - to full infubulation, removal of external genitalia and stitching up the labia to prevent unwanted pregnancy. There is a bloodthirsty rite associated with infibulation in which the husband runs through the streets holding the bloodstained dagger to declare he has 'opened' his wife for conception. Subincision is also practiced by Amazonian tribes. Estimates of the number of adolescents in Africa who undergo the procedure each year range as high as two million. The women often contract septicaemia, tetanus or gangrene. They may develop difficulty in urinating and chronic pelvic infections. Amnesty International recently recognised female genital mutilation as a human rights violation, and the ttnited States and other Western countries have begun granting asylum to women who fear that they or their daughters would be circumcised if forced to retum home. For Bundo members, the fear is that African elites, who do not usually engage in the practice, will be influenced by the campaign against circumcision and attempt to curb it. "We will continue to do it no matter what people say," insists Ines TomaElias, a Bundo elder and the mayor of Bo, the country's second largest city. What are the Bundo protecting? Their secrets, they say. The society constitutes 90 per cent of the women of Sierra Leone and is-a powerful traditional institution, respected and feared by the male dominated establishment. Every year Bundo elders take pubescent girls deep into the bush for several weeks to receive teybos, or things that are forbidden to discuss with the uninitiated, particularly men. "All you can know is thatwhen the girls retum they are women," says Toma Elias.
These Kenyan women are among the 130 million African women whose culture demands that they be circumcised. Even some anti-circumcision Africans say the Western critics have got it wrong. Aja Tounkara Diallo Fatimato, a Guinean gynaecologist, opposed the practice on health grounds. Still, Dr Tounkara, who was circumcised as an eight-year-old, says, 'Westerners think African men force us to do it. They say only Muslims do it ... [They say] we cannot experience sexual pleasure - they don't know what they are talking about." In Sierra Leone, the debate is further complicated because the Bundo is a rare civic org in a virtually ungoverned society. Weary of the toll the civil war was taking on their families, the women of Sierra Leone united in 1994 to found a group called the Women's Forum to push for peace. Educated, mostly uncircumcised women organised nationally, while the Bundo mobilised locally, uniting women from both the rebel and the amiy camps. The Forum won support for intemationaflv supervised elections, and the first democratically elected govemment in nearly 30 years was installed in April. The fight over circumcision has cnished that solidarity. Local women politicians seeking the support of Bundo members are stirring fears that the campaign against genital mutilation is an attempt to abolish the secret society. Circumcision opponents disagree. At her Freetown clinic , KosoThomas says, 'I am not against the Bundo secret society. I am against the suffering of the girlchild."
The female human has naturally evolved to have at least as intense an orgasm as the male. Sexual arousal is accompained by blood flow to the labia and clitoris just as it is to the penis. This is central to the nature of human courtship and the expression of bonding between the sexes. It is not something 'unclean' or 'inappropriate' about the female anatomy. Infibulation - an Extreme The most thorough method of securing the virginity of the bride is by the operation of infibulation (see below). This is a variety of female circumcision. As with innumerable other primitive practices, it has become adapted to a purpose the very opposite of that which originally led to its adoption. Unless special means are employed, as is done in all primitive societies by the introduction of a foreign body or by immediate sexual intercourse, female circumcision, when completely carried out in its original form, results in an occlusion by cicatricial tissue more complete than that presented by the hymeneal membrane. In Egypt, where, in the lower classes, the operation is usually carried out by a barber, who, seizing all the soft parts in one hand, cuts them at one stroke with a razor, adhesions invariably result which necessitate considerable cutting at the time of the first delivery. The original intention of the operation having long since become obsolete, the cicatricial closure has been utilised as a means of securing virginity; the formation of adhesions is encouraged by immobilising the parts or by stitches, only a small opening being contrived by inserting a quill during the healing process. The practice is universal in Nubia, south of Gebel Silsineh and in the Sudan, and is also in use in Abyssinia, Somaliland and West Africa. In some parts of Darfur and Kordofan no girl can find a husband unless she has undergone the operation. The assistance of a midwife has generally to be invoked in order to render possible the consummation of the marriage, and the operation is frequently repeated after each confinement. In some places the husband ceremonially rushes through the streets with a bloodied knife to announce he has impregnated his wife. The introduction of the practice is generally set down by writers to the Arabs; but this is denied both by the Arabs and by the natives. Infibulation is condemned by Muslims. (Briffault 3 344) · Bees disrupt ceremony 30-1-1997 FREETOWN -- Thousands of bees disrupted a female circumcision ceremony in Sierra Leone, putting half the 100 girls taking part in hospital, one of the girls said. Hospital sources said that some girls who had been mutilated were also being treated for serious bleeding and fever. · August 1996 Egypt: A girl dies in hospital after an attempt to circumcise her. · July 1997 Egypt: Parliament votes to reinstate female circumcision in public hospitals after protests from muslim clerics to overthrow the ban in the interests of moral 'decency'.

Waris Dirie recalls the horrors of her childhood-mutilation and reveals the enigma for her and exreme difficulty of sexual pleasure. She had to be operated on as an adult before she could have sexual relations. For a live commentary get a Genesis CD NZ Herald Nov 98 Dirie's mother believing she was doing the best thing for her daughter, walked her into the brush, held her down and told her to bite on a root. A gypsy woman cut at the lithe girl's genitalia, using a dirty, broken razor blade. "I heard the sound of the dug blade sawing back and forth through my skin," Dirie writes in Desert Flower. The woman used thorns from an acacia tree to puncture holes in her sldn and sew her up, leaving a tiny hole the diameter of a matchstick, through wlich urine and menstrual blood could dribble. My legs were completely numb, but the pain between them was so intense that I wished I would die." Five-year-old Wans was left in a hut to recuperate, her infibulation. Two cousins died from infection after the procedure, carried out to ensure virginity and make girls marriageable commodities. Uncircumcised girls are seen as unclean and treated as outcasts. For more than 20 years Dirie suffered health probleim and side-effects from , her radical circumcision. Menstruation was a long, agonising process each month, as the menstrual blood backed up in her body. Finally she got up courage to visit a London doctor who operated to make the aperture more of a normal size. Writes Dirie in Desert Flower. "Waris was a new woman. I could sit down on the toilet and pee whoosh! There's no way to explain what a new freedom that was.' But the doctor could not undo the damage which had been done to her genitalia during the circumcision It's when we touch on the subject of sex that Dirie becomes agitated. "Please," she implores, "lefs not talk about that. Just use your imagination." It doeswt take much. Women who have been htibulated, the most extreme form of FGM, have had their entire clitoris, labia minora and the inner surface of the labia minora removed. They will never enjoy a normal sex hfe, never experience an orgasm, something most New Zealand women woldd find mcomprehensible. In Desert Flower Dirie is more forthcoming about her. jazz musician boyfrined and father of her 17-month-old son, Aleeke. "Besides the health problems that I still struggle with, I will never know the pleasures of sex that have been denied me," she writes. "I feel incomolete, crippled and knowing that there's nothing I can do to change that is the most hopeless feeling of all. When I met Dana, I fmally fell in love and wanted to experience the joys of sex with a man. But if you ask me today, 'Do you ENJOY sex?' I would say not in the traditional way. I simply erjoy being plhysically close to Dana because I love him.' For Dirie the effort of sharing something which has troubled her for so long and affects her life every day is tough. "It never gets easier. It is emotionally draining to talk about something which has been locked deep for so long." But for the esdmated 130 million women who have already been circumcised and the 6000 girls a day who have FGM performed on them, Dirie keeps going, keeps going, keeps travelling. "The hardest part is to start somewhere. Everybody is waiting, they don't kncvw what to do. The West are aware of the problem. But they're told to back off, it's none of your business."
A Shrine to the Pain of the Girl Child The following is a shrine to the unnecessary and unspeakable pain of the girl child.
Girls wait to be circumcised.
Any objects on hand in any condition are used. The tradtion passes responsibility to older women to mutilate the young ones of their own sex so that they will not be unclean in the eyes of the men. The source is the desire of the men to control the fertility of 'their' females, even at grave risk and human bondage and misery.
Faces of misery
A girl is dragged to a place to lie down. A girl has her leggs trussed together. Girls frequently die from loss of blood or from infection.
Hawa Adan Mohamed was born and raised in Somalia. At the age of 8 she underwent the most radical form of mutilation practised infibulation. Performed by her aunt in a small village, the procedure was carried out without anaesthetic, using basic cutting tools and thorns. "You know in Somalia, circumcision is such a deep deep part of a girl's life. From the moment we are crawling we know about circumcision, we know that our gran(hnother and mother and sisters are circumcised and we look forward to it being done. Back then, no one would even dream of not being circumcised.' Hawa Adan Mohamed's struggle with mutilation was a long and brutal one suffering many of the complications of the practice and losing an older sister who died after the operation. "I have seen girls die after being circumcised, and the harmful effects go on and on, so I do feel much anger about it all, but I have no one to be angry at. 'You see, mothers always make sure their daughters are circumcised because they believe that this is the best for them. Despite the pain, I myself agreed with the practice because I thought that was best for me. "For example if a mother doesn't get her daughter circumcised, her daughter will be an outcast, no one will marry her and everyone would think she is a prostitute so it is a very difficult situation we can't be angry at anyone, because the mothers' intentions are good." In her early 20s Hawa Adan Mohained travelled and studied overseas where she discovered there were other women who were not circumcised, and most importantly, other Muslim women who were not. Slowly she realised "how wrong the tradition was" and committed herself to the fight against the practice. In the early 70s she returned to Somalia and with a small group of women began her campaign. She was appointed director of women's education, the women's movement began to bring about change and in 1977 infibulation was declared illegal. Government money was provided to start an anti-mutilation campaign. With the outbreak of civil war in 1991, the campaign was disbanded and millions of Somalis fled the country, including Hawa Adan Mohained who, with her husband, went to Canada. There she worked in a group campaigning against mutilation among Somali refugees. "Circumcision is a very difficult and sensitive issue for refugees. Many doctors and nurses in Western countries don't know how to look after circumcised women and the women feel very shy and embarrassed seeking help. "Almost every refugee has faced so much pain and trauma and lost so much anyway that working against circumcision can seem very insensitive in light of all their other terrible experiences so it must be approached with a lot of understanding." In 1995 Hawa Adan Moharned returned home, despite civil turmoil, to help her countrywomen. There she found a resurgence of the practice. "I was devastated by what I saw. It seems that we have gone back 40 years. Girls were being infibulated every day with razors and thorns. Two young girls recently died following the procedure and yet still many don't question it." Despite the horrors, she bears no anger toward the women who perpetuate the practice. "We cannot blame them because it is all they have ever known. Most of the women have never had any education on how harmful circumcision is. They believe that it is part of their religion and that the terrible pain is part of a woman's life. Many of the women have very little power and very little education. In this area, all the women need is education on circumcision.' So, despite civil war and lack of resources, that is what Hawa Adan Mohamed and 18 other Somali women in the town of Kismayo are now delivering. On a shoe-string budget from overseas supporters, they have set up a women's centre providing education programmes, small-business , a bakery and schooling for orphans. 'Our message to them is that circumcision is very very harmful, that it is bad for our daughters, that it is not part of our religion and we must give it up.' Pictures of families that have given up mutilation now line Hawa Adan Mohamed's makeshift office. The 60year-old has many hopes for the future, including that Somalia will be a land of peace and that the women's programme will grow and receive more money. But her dream is simple: "My dream is that in my lifetime there will be young girls living in the heart of Somalia who can run free and play without pain, without the cruel and devastating effects of circumcision. Even just a few. Even 10." NZ Herald 25 Nov 98
Zenebu Tulu (Women in the Material World, Faith d'Aluisio and Peter Menzel, Sierra Club Books, SF 70) "The others would laugh at Like when she goes to school if she were not circumcised. It isa humiliation, not circumcising a daughter. It is terrible not to." At the age of 18 Zebebu Tulu was kidnapped by her future husband, Getachew (Getu) Moneta, and taken to his brother's home. Tradition forbade the tearful Zenebu from returning to her parents and the pair was married after negotiations between the two families. Such forced unions are not uncommon in Ethiopia, where men often have near-total control over women's lives. For Zenebu, now 29, the abduction is a distant memory. For Getu, 32, it is a source of embarrassment-a reminder that he was "ignorant" as a young man. The couple and their five children live in a fanu'ly compound in the village of Moulo-a two-hour drive from Ethiopia's capital city of Addis Ababa-with Getu's parents, siblings, and grandmother. Their home is made of sticks cemented with mud and cattle dung; it leaks during the rainy season and needs constant work. Zenebu struggles to keep the yard clean and says her dream is to have "a very good yard and a garden." On Sundays, she attends services at an Ethiopian Orthodox church - a brief respite in a week of constant toll. Zenebu's biggest help is her daughter Like (pronounced " lee-kay"), 10, who spends the day pounding grain and pressing fresh dung into the wans of their home (inset). Like dreams of going to school like her brother, Teshome, 12, an avid student who wants to become a teacher, but Zenebu says she needs the girl at home and that in any case the family can't pay her school fees. Asked if she thinks life will be better for her children, Zenebu, proud of her son's progress, says that she hopes it will, but is inclined to believe that not much will change.

French FGM Case Ends in Trial and Sentence feb 99 PARIS - 'My mother had told me she was taking us there to have injections. But then I heard my sister Sira scream," the softly spoken young woman told the court 'Now it was my turn. There were several women. They forced me to lie down. One held my legs, the other held my arms. The third bent down and then cut out my clitoris. I screamed, and asked my mother why she hadn't said to stop them. She cried when she saw me." Sitting in the dock just five metres away from Mailatou Koita were the parents who last saw her on her 18th birthday and are accused of being accomplices in the act that ruined her life. The main accused is Hawa Greou, 52, a . Frenchwoman of Malian origin known in her community as Mama Greou. Accused of having cvarried out scores of female excisions over the past five years, she faces charges of inflicting voluntary irjury causing mutilation or permanent disability, which cames a jail term of up to 15 years. The other defendants are five fathers and. 22 mothers. It is due to the 'courage of Mariatou that the authorities have been prompted 'into launching the crackdown. Koita underwent excision at the hands of Mama Greou at the age of eight. Over the years, she bore her suffering in silence until the circumcision of her younger sister Mariam prompted her to go to the police. By becoming an infomer, she gave investigators a vital lead on the shadowy practice but also became an outcast in her community and brought shame upon her family. After Koita flied her complaint police identified 48 girls between one month and 18 years old who had been taken to Greous Paris flat for excision, a figure disputed by the Abolition of Genital Mutilation group, which says the figure is is closer to l00. Investigators found creams compresses, unsterilized razors allegedly used in the operations, as well as an instrument made of two metal spikes fixed to a plastic tube. Greou often carried out the excisions, for 500 francs ($165) apiece, during the holidays - when Paris is virtually deserted, so, that few people would hear the girls' screams. 'I do it the way my mother -and my grandmother did it,' Greou reportedly told police. 'I cut out the clitoris, I take clean earth and mould it into a charm that I place on the chfld's sex." At the start of the trial she sobbed as she told the Court 'I am sorry if I have done wrong It is just a custom, I did not, do it to hurt anyone ... now I understand and we have to stop. A court has handed down tough sentences in a land-mark trial of a Malian charged with mutilating young girls in the rite of female excision. Hawa Greou, 53, was handed an eight-year term for practising excision on 48 girls, while the mother of a young woman who had been mutilated by Greou was given a two-year term for failing to come to her daughters aid. Twenty-six other defendants, from Mali, Senegal, Gambia and Mauritius were given suspended terms ranging from two years to five years for abetting the mutilation.
Togo bans female genital mutilation Nov 98 LOME, Togo (Reuters) - Parliament in the west African nation of Togo has passed a law banning female genital mutilation and setting prison terms or fines for those who carry out or encourage it. The parliamentary human rights commission said studies concluded the practice, known as female circumcision, was not supported on religious or cultural grounds and was an attack on its victims' physical integrity. It said the mutilation, which typically involves removal of all or part of the clitoris, was particularly widely practiced among the country's Muslims, affecting two women out of three. New Zealand passed a private members bill to ban female circumcision at the behest of Christine Fletcher. Jan 99 Senegal joins Burkino Faso, Central African Republic, Dijbouti, Ghana, Guinea Conkery, and Togo in outlawing circumcision.
Wednesday, 13 December, 2000, 15:51 GMT Kenyan girls win circumcision ban Case could heighten war against female circumcision For the first time in Kenya, two teenage schoolgirls have won a court order preventing their father from forcing them to undergo female genital mutilation, traditionally known as circumcision. A court in Rift Valley Province issued a permament injunction on their father, Pius Kandie, stopping him from allowing his daughters - 17-year-old Ednah and 15-year-old Beatrice - to undergo the process without their consent. The magistrate Daniel Ochenja ordered the father to continue providing financial support for the girls, who are still living in the family home. The order has been welcomed by human rights activists as an important step towards ending the practice, which remains widespread in much of rural Kenya. Historic case The Centre for Human Rights and Democracy in Kenya helped the girls bring the case. The girls' lawyer, Ken Wafula, has termed the case historic saying it would encourage other girls in the province, who are forced into circumcision, to make a stand against the practice. He told the BBC that the two sisters considered the practice outdated and repugnant to justice and morality in the 21st century. The human rights group says girls from the Kalenjin tribe are normally subject to circumcision and immediately forced into sexual activities or marriage. This, says Mr Wafula, disrupts their academic growth, exposes them to unwanted pregnancies and the deadly disease, Aids. Monday, September 6, 1999 Published at 14:09 GMT 15:09 UK Kenya: Changing attitudes to female circumcision
By BBC correspondent Cathy Jenkins in Nairobi Agnes Poroi is the sort of teacher who oozes warmth and practical common sense. She needs to, because her subject is the most sensitive and the most controversial she could ever have to deal with in this part of East Africa. She is explaining to a class of 37 girls the dangers of female circumcision, commonly known in health circles as female genital mutilation. "What does the clitoris do?" she asks the girls, and a dozen hands shoot up. "Yes," says Agnes "it sends messages to the brain. Look at me, I've been circumcised, I don't have a key to start my engine". Agnes goes on to list some of the side effects: trauma, bleeding, difficult childbirth. Then she tells the girls, in no-nonsense terms, what she remembers of her circumcision day. "Painful, yes, it was painful what happened to me that early morning. The old mama came, she was very fat. In the first place I was taken outside. No one talked to me. Everyone was rough to me because there was something that was going to happen to me, and they wanted me to be brave." The old mama whom Agnes was refering to was the old woman who carried out the circumcision. It is a tradition which is still widely practised by many of Kenya's tribes. The most basic type of circumcision is the "sunna", where the covering of the clitoris is removed. Among Agnes's tribe, the Masai, circumcision is more severe. It involves the cutting away of the whole clitoris, together with the labia majora and the labia minora. Traditionally, a Masai girl is circumcised before she is married, and that can be from a very young age. During the ceremony, the girl is expected to remain silent. To cry would be a sign of weakness. Agnes works for an organisation called Maendeleo ya Wanawake, which means the Development of Women - it is trying to stop the practice in Kenya. But so sensitive is the issue that campaigners cannot approach it head on. Instead they are using education and economic factors as a lever. Among the Masai community, parents are increasingly eager for their daughters to finish school because this increases their chances of earning money for the whole family. But the problem is that once a girl is circumcised, she drops out of school to get married. Her earning power drops to nil.
"I had to go around the area for one year without even mentioning female circumcision" says Agnes. "I just had to go round saying to parents 'I'm here and I want to know why your girls are dropping out of school; what will you think if they're not the teachers of tomorrow, not the doctors of tomorrow?' Slowly it came from the parents themselves. 'What about this circumcision. It makes them drop out of school.' " The parents of the girls in Agnes's class have been convinced. Instead of having their daughters circumcised, they have sent them to Maendeleo ya Wanawake. Over the course of a week with the organisation, the girls are taught what their community expects of them as adults. Then at the end there is a ceremony of singing and dancing. It is a rite of passage for the girls and marks their passage from childhood to adulthood. But they have become women without being cut. Dorcas Samante is very happy about it. She is twenty, and first heard about the dangers of circumcision when she was at school. But she only avoided circumcision because her uncle, who brought her up, is an urban, educated man who was already convinced. Dorcas needed his support because among Masai it is the men who make all the decisions. But Dorcas knows that many of her former schoolfriends do not understand her. "They see me as odd" she says. "They keep away from me. But I'm proud. Perhaps I'm an unusal woman here, but there is an outside world and I know that it will agree with me." Watching the ceremony is Mary Karanja, the mother of another of the girls, Esther. Mary is beaming with delight. She says that she was circumcised in 1956, but none of her six daughters has been cut. "I realised when my first child was born that I had difficulty. I am very happy about this ceremony" she says. But these are small numbers yet, and the campaigners know that some of the girls at their ceremony may yet come under pressure to be circumcised. But they are also prepared to work very carefully and patiently. They say that this is the only way to change attitudes.
· The Female Genital Mutilation Resource Page · To Mutilate in the Name of Jehovah or Allah · Amnesty International's 'Human Rights Information Pack' on FGM
Reunion with Eden - Sakina Epiphany 2000 Jerusalem - please come!! Daughters of Israel, Daughters of Palestine, Daughters of Eden, Daughters of Gaea - please help Spread the word - this is the final justice, peace and the reconciliation. · Fertilize the Renewal · The Bridegroom and the Sacred Marriage · Hymn to the Epoch · Ways of the Sacred Marriage
References 1. Keeton, William (1976) Biological Science 3rd ed., WW Norton & Co., New York 737.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:56 PM   #6
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CHRISTIANS FORCED TO CONVERT TO ISLAM AND TO GET CIRCUMCISED

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73174
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:57 PM   #7
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Please stop this madness.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:23 PM   #8
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This is the fourth time you've posted this ES. What happened? Not enough bad feeling created the last 3 times?
why dont you do something about his incessant vile posts?

The only purpose they serve is to spread disinformation, create fear and hate, and divide people further.

We could all have some good friends amongst the muslims, they are very clued up on tptb, it was them that planted the seed in my mind, and no they were not so called "extremists".
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:25 PM   #9
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Please stop this madness.
lol, funny coming from you.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:35 PM   #10
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why dont you do something about his incessant vile posts?

The only purpose they serve is to spread disinformation, create fear and hate, and divide people further.

We could all have some good friends amongst the muslims, they are very clued up on tptb, it was them that planted the seed in my mind, and no they were not so called "extremists".
Find counter arguments to ES's claims then. Post them. Get him to defend the points he raises.

Don't just moan to the moderators - 'I don't like this, remove this now' - look into what he says, research it, see if he's right, if he is - learn to live with it. If he isn't then post your research/counter argument.

Another thing to point out would be that all A do not = B and to tar all followers of Islam with the same brush is myopic and ultimately redundant.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:35 PM   #11
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http://www.channel4.com/health/micro..._designer.html

ES, why dont you scream and shout about this?

is our society progressive? Atleast the muslims allowed this 1500 years ago, allowed women to vote and own property, own their own business and didint burden them with so called "equality" by making them work too hard and bring up children.

by the way in islam anything a women earns is her's to keep!

Propoganda posts such as yours only serve to keep muslims away from these forums, I sincerely believe we could have good allies in the muslims, they know alot more than you think, and are alot more vociferous, but i suppose unity is not something you desire.

Last edited by mr t; 12-08-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by krakhead View Post
Find counter arguments to ES's claims then. Post them. Get him to defend the points he raises.

Don't just moan to the moderators - 'I don't like this, remove this now' - look into what he says, research it, see if he's right, if he is - learn to live with it. If he isn't then post your research/counter argument.

Another thing to point out would be that all A do not = B and to tar all followers of Islam with the same brush is myopic and ultimately redundant.
i have and so have others, but i suppose this forum is for shills, as they are allowed to spread thier hate on every thread, repeating the same rubbish over and over again.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:32 PM   #13
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Find counter arguments to ES's claims then. Post them. Get him to defend the points he raises.
its quite simple actually

for something to be "part" of (shia) islam, it must fulfill one of the four following criteria:

- the prophet did it
- its in the quran
- the 12 imams did it
- the 12 imams encouraged it

this act of blood rituals - called qamma zani - fulfills not one of those criteria, so is not considered islamic. its that simple.

it is a cultural arab/iranian expression of mourning, which itself is only a few hundred years old. it takes place in the indian subcontinent too.

let me give you an example

prayers 5 times a day - fulfills all 4 criteria

fasting - fulfills all 4

giving to charity - fulfills all 4

looking after orphans - fulfills all 4

qamma zani - not even one.

in fact, the majority of shia scholars, with the exception of a minority, ban it outright.
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:33 AM   #14
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its quite simple actually

for something to be "part" of (shia) islam, it must fulfill one of the four following criteria:

- the prophet did it
- its in the quran
- the 12 imams did it
- the 12 imams encouraged it

this act of blood rituals - called qamma zani - fulfills not one of those criteria, so is not considered islamic. its that simple.

it is a cultural arab/iranian expression of mourning, which itself is only a few hundred years old. it takes place in the indian subcontinent too.

let me give you an example

prayers 5 times a day - fulfills all 4 criteria

fasting - fulfills all 4

giving to charity - fulfills all 4

looking after orphans - fulfills all 4

qamma zani - not even one.

in fact, the majority of shia scholars, with the exception of a minority, ban it outright.
These scholars think it OK

http://www.shirazi.org.uk/tatbir%20fatawa1423.htm

I recognise that Islam is a huge religion with numerous strands of belief and that not all scholars will agree with those on the site I linked to. I recognise also that the western media will sometimes latch on to some Islamic practice which may not be mainstream and present it as a horrifying aspect of modern Islam.

However whilst adults can carry out whatever ritual they like in private, providing it harms no-one (a Wiccan would include not harming oneself in this) it is quite abhorrent to see children being involved in this. Not so very long ago, in the UK, a man was prosecuted for encouraging two young teenage boys to whip themselves with a whip made of knives and chains during the same type of ceremony as the subject of the OP. It had been pointed out to the man concerned that no boys under the age of 16 should be involved but he had ignored that warning from his fellow Shia Muslims.

This is the whole problem. There are many, many decent Muslims out there who would find these proceedings quite as horrific as we do but they are not coming forward to protest as they should. Many years ago, when I had Sky tv I used to watch the Islam channel but gave up because I was sickened by some of what I heard there. There was a programme where people could ring in with a question and a scholar would answer. There was one question about female circumcision and the scholar explained that there was no Islamic law requiring it and that it was a cultural practice. What distressed me was that the scholar did not condemn this barbaric practice, which, becuase of cultural reasons, is almost exclusively carried out by Muslims. By accepting it he was condoning it and this made me feel sick. Why aren't Islamic scholars and Imams coming out against this practice and banning it?

So let's have some more Muslims willing to speak out and push the extremists into the background. That's the only way but I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:39 AM   #15
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is it just me or is in eternal_spirit really anti-muslim? most of the posts he/she has made have been about the 'things that these people do, the shock horror'
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:44 AM   #16
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Read the message not the messenger.
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:53 AM   #17
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Read the message not the messenger.
If the messenger has no credibility, the 'message' they promote is likely also bunk
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:59 AM   #18
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If the messenger has no credibility, the 'message' they promote is likely also bunk
Reality is "real" not "bunk" which makes the messenger credible, as the information posted is based on reality - head cutting rituals and circumcision "blood rituals." thus grants legitimate debate and exposure.

Have you anything to add to the debate? So far you have a personal vendetta against the messenger if that's your only input then it's not welcome or relevant.
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Old 14-08-2009, 11:34 AM   #19
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Reality is "real" not "bunk" which makes the messenger credible,
Only IF there is 'reality' in their 'message' and your threads/post contain neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
Have you anything to add to the debate? So far you have a personal vendetta against the messenger if that's your only input then it's not welcome or relevant.
Whats 'welcome' or considered 'relevant' by you is not of interest to me. If you wish to dictate what 'input' is in threads you had better get your own forum which you can spam with impunity
I have no 'vendetta' against you , If I had, it would not be confined to an internet forum. I honestly want to know why you are obsessed with postring 'anti-islam' threads


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Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
- head cutting rituals and circumcision "blood rituals." thus grants legitimate debate and exposure.
So why do you just object to Islam? Most muslims do NOT practice 'blood rituals' , however if a male child is to be considered 'Jewish' , he must have his genitals ritually mutilated, often the 'rabbi' sucks the blood from the infants maimed penis, why not make threads about this ?

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Old 14-08-2009, 04:10 PM   #20
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the shirazis (may god protect them) are one of the minority, you will be able to find fatwas both for and against, but when it comes to numbers, the anti far, far outweigh the pro.

personally, im strictly neutral. its none of my business. theyre doing it to themselves not forcing it on others so ill put it down to personal choice. might be distasteful to those who dont do it, but then again plenty of things those who dont do qamma zani can be viewed as distasteful to those who do.

azadari - mourning - takes different forms. at its simplest, its simply crying, reciting eulogys/ dirges, giving to the poor, donating blood, prayers etc. some choose to express it by qamma zani.

eternal_spirit i am still waiting for you to provide either a single sentence from the quran, or a single hadith from any hadith book, shia or sunni, strong or weak, even by the dodgiest of dodgy narrators, which state along the lines of "cut your heads open with knives in grief and do it to your children".


if you cannot, then this whole thread is meaningless and again you are exposed as a hate mongering liar.
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