The Waitaha people of pre-maori nz

[dana]

Thats ok at least you've got the sense to re-think what you said.

I'm not actualy Maori myself I am Waitaha (which is realy a different people from Maori) most Waitaha peoples these days also have Maori blood in them because they were pacifists in the ancient past & refused to fight (when the maori arrived in NZ) and for Maori of the time fighting was a way of life and survival.

So as you can probably imagine those (Waitaha) who never fled/escaped became dead, enslaved and/or "wives" of Maori.

However many did escape to places like the chatham Islands, down to the southern most regions and up into the snowy alps, where it was too cold for the Maori to live (because they came from tropical parts of the pacific where they had been living for hundreds of years)...many of those came back up north eventualy and there are still a few left but as I said in above posts, the government here assumed they were maori & still do.

Anyway my ancestors were waitaha and also of a people of...you could say pre celtic decent. When i was very young (12-13) i ran away from an extremely abusive step-father and when i had nowhere to go and no-one to turn to i was taken in by Maori families more than once who had many problems/issues of there own but always treated me as one of thier own and no matter how little they had they shared it around everyone (often alot of people in a family group).

Maori are very caring people and will offer to share whatever they have with you no matter who you are-it is thier custom.The children are always fed first, then the elders and guests, then everyone else. Much of the time we had to forage for our own food and were sent to get seafood or watercress etc.

I spent much of my teenage life on the Marae (communal living house a bit like a viking longhouse) where everyone works very hard just to eat (although we ate well) to this day i concider many of these people more of a family even than my own family (who aside from my stepfather i love dearly) . When you live with people as closely as that you come to understand them better than anyone living separate and very different lives.

No matter what people (as a race) were like in the past we all have a past you know. European people (as a race) are not terrible people who rape pillage & plunder. Although thier ancestors did (vikings etc) and "SOME" of them still are like this...just as some "Maori" dont seem to have evolved much.

Maori and other aboriginal peoples of the pacific islands have not had as many hundreds of years to adapt to alcohol as Europeans have and yet when i watch documentary's focused on the abuse of alcohol in countries such as England, America and even Australia it seems to me many European peoples dont seem to be able to "handle" thier alcohol either. It's a realy bad problem especially with the youth here in NZ (of all races). Sorry if im ranting off topic lol

[feralgoose]

hi dana i've to confess to ignorance! i've never been to New Zealand. I only known one Maori family the girl I mentioned in my first post was a girlfriend of a few years ago one of the people I've been closest to my whole life and I miss her very much.

You are right her family where very generous and respectful, respect being a key principle in their community and history. I cant remember the word for it but they had certain rules such as not sitting on tables, taking shoes off in the house, if you where a guest you would bring a gift (some food or something) if you where able to. I remember they would feed children and guests first her mum made me feel like I was her favourite son in a warm way. I've always wanted to be able to afford go to new zealand and see them again.

I understand they do a thing where another family takes on children from other familys as a sort of fostering system?

I'm not racist I understand every race has it's bad eggs who choose a difficult path and we shouldnt judge them on the whole. She was the one who told me the reasons he didnt drink was because "maoris cant handle their piss" but i apologize for spreading that ignorance if that's what it is, i have no evidence either way.

The reason this thread interested me was because to be honest her and her mother didnt look very maori. i had no doubts they where and she told me she hated when people would ask what race she was and that she didnt look very maori so of course i kept my mouth shut lol. but it's not racist if i'm just being honest am i? perhaps you can educate me further

[feralgoose]

also i wonder if you have any information on the 'Mongrol Mob'?

[dana]

feralgoose-dont worry not accusing you of racism at all! Most people who make loose statements about one race or another (in my opinion) aren't racist, just lack knowledge & understanding. Racists on the other hand choose to be ignorant and dont want to be shown any different.

When i was a kid, i always used to think i'd like to be God for a day so i could take all the racists of the world & re-incarnate them in the body of the races they hate the most. I think i got the idea from an episode of "Twilight Zone"

I used to say i couldnt stand indians because i had been treated with disrespect...but then i met some real nice indian families & discovered that it had more to do with thier religon, upbringing and even what part of India they came from (because of the class destinction etc) well thats what they taught me anyhow.

Sounds like your friend could very well be Waitaha decent, most with the red or what we call waka/blonde (waka is maori for boat or canoe) hair, bronze-fair skin and green or blue eyes are. But many dont even know thier own heritage and think Waitaha's Maori.

There are also some Redheads "Maori" who are said to be decendants of those who had children to various trading ships etc back in the day. There was a 15th-century Portuguese or Spanish galleon dug up in the north island at a place called Bailey's Beach...also i have seen online documents (held in Scotland) that show there were celts dropped off in NZ back when Waitaha peoples were here (pre-Maori).

Apparently two brothers (sons of a cheif) were banished from their homeland and to be dropped off in an un-inhabited land with a few animals, their familys/followers & provisions to last 3 months.

The banishment was to last around 120 yrs i think and if they were still alive their decendants would be brought home. But when the ship was sent to retrieve them, the majority of them didnt want to return as they had settled in well with the Waitaha and were happy here. Some beleive this is why there are old celtic style stone ruins here that pre-date Maori.

I know a fair bit about MM as my cousin used to be a member, theyre not people you would want to know much about imho. I dislike gangs and what they stand for, i'm pro self sufficiency & independence as opposed to sheeple menality.

[dana]

Originally Posted by feralgoose

I cant remember the word for it but they had certain rules such as not sitting on tables, taking shoes off in the house...

I've always wanted to be able to afford go to new zealand and see them again.

I understand they do a thing where another family takes on children from other familys as a sort of fostering system?

Its called Kaupapa (co papa)


You could find her on Facebook??

This is called Whangai (far ngeye

[feralgoose]

fantastic! I asked about the mongrel mob because her uncle was involved in the founding of it. I agree with you about gang mentality and even she who was not really involved would defend them. She told me that although they where criminals drug dealers and pimps the leaders of the gang made sure any profit went into the poor communities, into the schools and nurserys. Again im ignorant really but this is what I've been told I havent seen it for myself and know of no evidence. The only other info I've had was tv programme over here about gangs, they went into the wars with Black Power and the crime and tried to keep it unbias by showing the respect within the gang community and a funeral turn-out but I didn't really learn anything from it. I've worked in the community in South and West London with young gang members and it doesnt seem the same as over there, here we don't even know where the money goes most likely a higher form of organized crime and the gangs have no real identitys other than fighting over postcodes and boroughs.

Thanks for the info, a really fascinating culture!

[dana]

yeah not real sure about where profits go and all that, but imho gangs commit atrocious crimes in order to get those $$ in the first place so i dont know if anyone can say its ok because we give to the poor you know?!

Theyre not much worse than the government though, they pretty much do the same.

I know i wouldnt take $$ from someone who may have sold crack to our kids to get it even if i had nothing & i have had nothing. I have done some things (as a child) i am ashamed of to survive (like clothes-line shopping lol) but to have a whole syndacate of grown men (with hundreds of members) who do much worse for reasons other than survival...

Youre welcome

[dana]

Just as a pont of interest...Waitaha legends say we came from the stars, our "belief system" is very simlar (in part) to what the ancient egyptians believed. Thier are two star systems Waitaha have depicted in cave drawings, legend and song

1) This is a constellation made up of 3 (european) constellations:

Te Waka o Tama-rereti, (The boat/canoe of Tama-rereti) (Tama-rereti: the name of an ancestor).

(location) Tama-rereti's Canoe - a constellation in the shape of a huge canoe. Tautoru (Orion's Belt) forms the stern while Tail of the Scorpion is the prow. Māhutonga (The Southern Cross) is the anchor and The Pointers are Te Taura o te Waka o Tama-rereti (the anchor line of the canoe of Tama-rereti).

The canoe is known as Uruao: a canoe from Hawaiki (Hawaiki is not Hawaii as many believe but is where our souls began & shall return) a world, not of this world. The crew, settled in the South Island and became the tribes of Waitaha.

so these were navigational stars. they were the compass of our ancestors who migrated here from Hawaiki.

2) Matariki: Pleiades, The Seven Sisters

[libertyfreeman]

Fascinating discussion.
Dana, I have particularly appreciated and enjoyed reading your input.
Thanks.

[proud_kiwi]

In the late 1800's in caves out on the coast by Port Waikato a big pile of human bones was found and they were from a people who stood at least 7 meters tall.

When the local Maori were asked what they would like done with them they replied "they are not of our people so do what you like with them" so all the bones were gathered up and shipped to a mill in Mount Eden and ground up for fertilizer.

[libertyfreeman]

Originally Posted by proud_kiwi

In the late 1800's in caves out on the coast by Port Waikato a big pile of human bones was found and they were from a people who stood at least 7 meters tall.

When the local Maori were asked what they would like done with them they replied "they are not of our people so do what you like with them" so all the bones were gathered up and shipped to a mill in Mount Eden and ground up for fertilizer.

Fascinating story. We'd you hear it?
Are there any references online or published elsewhere that you can point me to, regarding this? Would love to learn more.

[proud_kiwi]

Originally Posted by libertyfreeman

Fascinating story. We'd you hear it?
Are there any references online or published elsewhere that you can point me to, regarding this? Would love to learn more.

I first heard about it around thirty odd years ago because I live in the area and there's a magazine here called E-Local that's published in hardcopy and online they did a report about it afew years back I'll see if I can find it online and post a link.

[proud_kiwi]

Originally Posted by libertyfreeman

Fascinating story. We'd you hear it?
Are there any references online or published elsewhere that you can point me to, regarding this? Would love to learn more.

Here you go.
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...45960087,d.dGI

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...45960087,d.dGI

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...45960087,d.dGI

Here's a link about the mill.

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...45960087,d.dGI

[tnt1]

Originally Posted by bluehorseman

There is an oral history here in New Zealand of an ancient race of peoples that sailed to NZ from the east and populated the country many years before Maori - these people were called the Waitaha. They are not recognised as a race in NZ officially because to do that would succeed tribal rights over areas of land in treaty compensation negotiations away from Maori tribes but basically it is said that the Waitaha people sailed to NZ, populated it and lived in peace there for many years.
The difference between this race and the Maori at the time is that the Waitaha were totally into peace and that they were WHITE. They were fair skinned people some with blue eyes some with green, they had blond hair alot of them and some had red, they were tall and lithe and were mainly vegetarians. They had no martial arts or war structure as they were totally into peace so that when the Maori came they were easily over run and eaten or taken as slaves because they refused to fight - the memory of them is kept alive through their ancestors who were taken as slaves and assimilated into Maori society. That is why many Maori have red hair and some have green eyes. They were expert gardeners and the garden beds they made can still be seen in some areas.
Anyone else heard of these people? Would anyone know there origins? I think they came from Lemuria or s.a however the island of hte Marquesas have an interesting history as well.

From among other clans of the same peoples populating norther Scotland referred to as the Pics. These were tall red haired, blue green eyed people with sacred geometry and archaeoastronomy knowledge, survivors of the cataclysm. Minoan tribes survived also, some that were mining in the Americas in particular, Michigan for one. Man of these also had red hair. It is said that some of these same tribes made their way to the south seas and Easter Island but I am not sure that was not a separate and later cataclysm from the first. Its hard to follow the time line without reference books. Going by memory I believe the PIC became the large Viking peoples, the Nordics or Phoenicians that had pretty great sea faring abilities really not happy sitting still at all. They were all over the frickin' place. A lot of them had reddish hair, blond or strawberry blond color hair, freckles, blue or blue green hazel eyes. They were tall, bearded and that could be red, deep burgundy to orange flame in color.

They were considered pure bloods. These same tribes were the sacred or scarlett woman tribes in Egypt used in the living substance sciences of glandular and body secretions both blood, brain oils and more. All this included much in the way of ritual passed down knowledge through a priest hood. These woman, scarlett woman were used to provide their menstrual blood for the rituals. The blood was dried, made into edible wafers and fed to the royals. The pure line of the red hairs which was believed to be the closest left to that of the originators creating our kind was revered by the lay people, and the royals alike. Even the priests gave them a free pass. They were bowed to when they passed, they were allowed free passage when others paid, and they were not allowed to work. I understand the Hindu caste system is a system based on this same thing or some off shoot of same. This is all from memory of many years worth of digesting. Forgive if off in a few areas.

[ngawaka19]

Originally Posted by feralgoose

I love Maoris but they cant handle their drink and it makes them very violent lol

lol Totally agree... gotta be able to laugh at yourself eh......

[ngawaka19]

Originally Posted by kiwimaj

Why not??

I am a Kiwi and have recently thought that the Maori had some sort of connection with the reppies..why the "tongue" thing?? Where did that come from ?

totally agree..... the tongue thing, but also, have a closer look at the facial moko of the maori, what does it remind you of, or easily resemble..... I've never been able to shake the thought that Maori did moko as a way of gaining mana in terms of the reppies would of been the kings of the land, incredibly powerful ets, we would of copied their look, to acknowledge their mana... as well as to maintain our identity as part of their hapu, belonging to them or brothers to them.... I'd say we would of been their favorites down here because of our traditions..... they say the patupaiarehe introduced us to moko and poi etc..... maybe..... but that's mainstream history.....

[bluehorseman]

Originally Posted by tnt1

From among other clans of the same peoples populating norther Scotland referred to as the Pics. These were tall red haired, blue green eyed people with sacred geometry and archaeoastronomy knowledge, survivors of the cataclysm. Minoan tribes survived also, some that were mining in the Americas in particular, Michigan for one. Man of these also had red hair. It is said that some of these same tribes made their way to the south seas and Easter Island but I am not sure that was not a separate and later cataclysm from the first. Its hard to follow the time line without reference books. Going by memory I believe the PIC became the large Viking peoples, the Nordics or Phoenicians that had pretty great sea faring abilities really not happy sitting still at all. They were all over the frickin' place. A lot of them had reddish hair, blond or strawberry blond color hair, freckles, blue or blue green hazel eyes. They were tall, bearded and that could be red, deep burgundy to orange flame in color.

They were considered pure bloods. These same tribes were the sacred or scarlett woman tribes in Egypt used in the living substance sciences of glandular and body secretions both blood, brain oils and more. All this included much in the way of ritual passed down knowledge through a priest hood. These woman, scarlett woman were used to provide their menstrual blood for the rituals. The blood was dried, made into edible wafers and fed to the royals. The pure line of the red hairs which was believed to be the closest left to that of the originators creating our kind was revered by the lay people, and the royals alike. Even the priests gave them a free pass. They were bowed to when they passed, they were allowed free passage when others paid, and they were not allowed to work. I understand the Hindu caste system is a system based on this same thing or some off shoot of same. This is all from memory of many years worth of digesting. Forgive if off in a few areas.

Thanks - I have been told that this all ties into the tribe of Dan so all info good info. The tribe of Dan went where ever the gold was and there were/are large deposits of gold in NZ. It is theorised that the gold was made into monotomic (sp) gold and eaten as wafers as well to both prolong life and increase their 'abilities'.