Point of masonry?

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by boots

The guy was just looking for an excuse to be insulted.






No he didn't. SO it amazes me that Freemasons do these mind control ritual's which fly's in the face of Christianity. It's hypocritical. Dont you think?





Does he mean dont have FALSE idol.

.

Not at all. I answered the question that I was asked. Nothing to do with me personally.

[thelonious]

Originally Posted by boots

No he didn't. SO it amazes me that Freemasons do these mind control ritual's which fly's in the face of Christianity. It's hypocritical. Dont you think?

What does Masonic ritual have to do with "mind control"? And why should freemasonry be compared with Christianity, instead of Hinduism or Sikhism? In other words, why use Christianity as a standard instead of something else?

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by thelonious

What does Masonic ritual have to do with "mind control"? And why should freemasonry be compared with Christianity, instead of Hinduism or Sikhism? In other words, why use Christianity as a standard instead of something else?

We must face essential truths even if these essential truths are open to interpretation, exaggeration, and misuse by those who are malevolent towards freemasonry per se.

MIND CONTROL:

Of course, freemasonry of all types alters, or should do, the way freemasons think (the mind) and feel about themselves, and their relationship with and towards the profane world. All types of freemasonry demand conformity with a "peculiar system of morality", and this requires changes in behaviour as well.

CHRISTIANITY

Until VERY recently (I believe the 1930's) the Holy Bible was the only Holy Book allowed to be used by all English freemasons as their "Volume of the Sacred Law". This rule was changed by the Moderns during the Raj in order to accommodate the initiation of Hindus and Sikhs.

Although the Moderns form of freemasonry was essentially de-Christianisation, the following was their prevailing attitude prior to the Raj liberalisation:

The Builder Magazine, June 1927 - Volume XIII - Number 6

Article: The Most High of the Craft

MASONIC MORALITY DERIVED FROM CHRISTIANITY

Without any doubt, our morality is Christian, and is only universal in the sense of our belief that it could be universal. That does not mean that it repudiates all other faiths, but on the contrary, it takes all that is good and great from every faith even as Christ did, and infinitely transcends them with Love. Then if we would know the complete nature of our Most High we should search the mind of Jesus of the Gospels.

It is very clear that our brethren of 1717 were not at all in doubt about the particular God whom Masons adore. They show this in four ways, first, by accepting, or inventing, the drama of King Solomon's Temple, secondly, by the specific signs they use for the Most High, thirdly, by the expression of their prayers, and lastly, by the acceptance of a system of morality which will only conform to the former ideas.

I hope that this puts it into context for you.

[thelonious]

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

MIND CONTROL:

Of course, freemasonry of all types alters, or should do, the way freemasons think (the mind) and feel about themselves, and their relationship with and towards the profane world.

I agree with you that should, but it most often doesn't, and the claim that Masonic ritual introduces "mind control" is beyond ridiculous.

All types of freemasonry demand conformity with a "peculiar system of morality", and this requires changes in behaviour as well.

Theoretically, yes. Realistically, not so much.

CHRISTIANITY

Until VERY recently (I believe the 1930's) the Holy Bible was the only Holy Book allowed to be used by all English freemasons as their "Volume of the Sacred Law". This rule was changed by the Moderns during the Raj in order to accommodate the initiation of Hindus and Sikhs.

Just for the record, I'm a proponent of "Bible only", not because I'm trying to promote sectarian Christianity in the Lodge, but simply because the legends of the Craft are derived from the Bible.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by thelonious

Just for the record, I'm a proponent of "Bible only", not because I'm trying to promote sectarian Christianity in the Lodge, but simply because the legends of the Craft are derived from the Bible.

Interesting as the story of KST is from the Old Testament, which is taken from the Pentateuch, which is of course like Jesus, Jewish.

Mike

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by mike martin

Interesting as the story of KST is from the Old Testament, which is taken from the Pentateuch, which is of course like Jesus, Jewish.

Mike

Yes Mike, but this might lead to confusion.

The legend of Hiram Abiff and his raising is not part of the story of King Solomon's Temple in the Old Testament, it was made up, or more accurately borrowed from elsewhere.

This allegory, and not the Temple itself, is a major key to the Moderns form of freemasonry (the Master Mason's third degree) leading on to the Royal Arch Degree, and the discovery of the "Mason's Word".

The legend of Hiram Abiff, being a Masonic addition, and not appearing in scripture, in King Solomon's Temple or elsewhere, could not therefore be considered to be either Jewish OR Christian.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

The legend of Hiram Abiff, being a Masonic addition, and not appearing in scripture, in King Solomon's Temple or elsewhere, could not therefore be considered to be either Jewish OR Christian.

True enough but I was only really answering thelonious's point about the Bible being Christian.

The fact that many so called masonic historians have tried to identify the Masonic allegorical character of Hiram Abiff with Biblical characters is a whole other story.

Mike

[boots]

Originally Posted by thelonious

I agree with you that should, but it most often doesn't, and the claim that Masonic ritual introduces "mind control" is beyond ridiculous.

LOL, Let's say I come around to your house on the pretext that I going to get you to give me your time and energy Oh yeah, and support some worthy causes.

AND guess what!!! your willing to do it Sucker. But I dont really want your money. I want your time and energy to support my cause, my religion. BUT I have a grading system for YOU to follow.

Now you come willingly knowing full well what I'm going to do....OMG this is to easy. lol.... So I stick a knife to your throat with a black hood over your head. lead you around with a noose around your neck and get you to BOW DOWN before me and swear allegiance to ME and MY god. as you see the light which is MY god. ( I have control). Along with this little ritual I'll have some symbols around which directly act on your sub conscious. You dont realize it, but I DO. Now your playing MY game, you look up to me for guidance. I have part of your thoughts in my control, Hahah and you gave them willingly.

You are supseptable to MY ideologies, intent, and ego.

Originally Posted by thelonious

Just for the record, I'm a proponent of "Bible only", not because I'm trying to promote sectarian Christianity in the Lodge, but simply because the legends of the Craft are derived from the Bible.

See above.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by boots

No he didn't. SO it amazes me that Freemasons do these mind control ritual's which fly's in the face of Christianity. It's hypocritical. Dont you think?

And very very obvious to say the least. as far as I can see it anchors fear in disobedience like many other mind control methods. basic example from another topic: "don't lose your job or the credit card companies will get you!"

Originally Posted by boots

Does he mean dont have FALSE idol.

.

yes. and the most false is the "worldly cocoon" so to speak. a.k.a. "I am a banker; a wizard; a teacher; a mason" some people and sadly myself out of necessity must refer to the persona while talking about themselves.

[grandsecretary]

see above:

thelonius this is what I meant:

We must face essential truths even if these essential truths are open to interpretation, exaggeration, and misuse by those who are malevolent towards freemasonry per se.

... and they can't resist it can they?

[thelonious]

Originally Posted by boots

Now you come willingly knowing full well what I'm going to do....OMG this is to easy. lol.... So I stick a knife to your throat with a black hood over your head. lead you around with a noose around your neck and get you to BOW DOWN before me and swear allegiance to ME and MY god.

But I wouldn't do that, and I doubt anyone else would either. That's why I think you have a fallacy in your argument. While it is true that the ritual you describe could be defined as a type of mind control, or at least an attempt at it, what you describe is not a Masonic ritual.

In Masonry, I didn't swear allegiance to any mortal, and certainly am not going to bow down before one; I simply promised to fulfill my moral duties to myself and my fellows, which I was going to do anyway regardless of becoming a Mason.

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by boots

So I stick a knife to your throat with a black hood over your head. lead you around with a noose around your neck and get you to BOW DOWN before me and swear allegiance to ME and MY god.

No. False premise.

[lightgiver]

Point of masons= to become EVIL

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

Point of masons= to become EVIL

Nah nah nah nah nah!

Very impressive.

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

Nah nah nah nah nah!

Very impressive.

I know it is,I actually know a Ian brown song called NAH NAH NAH.

Well the pike masons are well evil,and the other ones are not so savoury.

Not exactly setting a good example is it now.

Greed Can Never Be Satisfied.

A key aspect of greed is that greed is never satisfied no matter how much material goods are accumulated by a person. The Bible says we are but “greedy dogs” who are obsessed with material things. Greed has no purpose because it can never be satisfied. Only God can give us true purpose, true peace, and true satisfaction.

[kenny_bubb]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

Only God can give us true purpose, true peace, and true satisfaction.

Simple theological question, but humour me: If God is all knowing and all powerful, how can evil exist?

[grandsecretary]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

I know it is,I actually know a Ian brown song called NAH NAH NAH.

Well the pike masons are well evil,and the other ones are not so savoury.

Not exactly setting a good example is it now.

Greed Can Never Be Satisfied.

A key aspect of greed is that greed is never satisfied no matter how much material goods are accumulated by a person. The Bible says we are but “greedy dogs” who are obsessed with material things. Greed has no purpose because it can never be satisfied. Only God can give us true purpose, true peace, and true satisfaction.

You will never find me defending the odious Pike, or his freemasons, and I agree 100% with your last sentence.

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by kenny_bubb

Simple theological question, but humour me: If God is all knowing and all powerful, how can evil exist?

Ever heard of free will.Of course Evil exists stop typing wind up statements.

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

[luciferhorus]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

Ever heard of free will.Of course Evil exists stop typing wind up statements.

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

The Devil essentially offers the keys to the kingdoms of the world.

1; Power 2: Money and 3: esoteric knowledge,

I have all this already and share it as much as I can, however I do also have demands; I do also (just like my father, the Devil) require total submision to my will.

Domination and Submission have sexual meanings to me, which I cannot fully explain in language but which I understand experientally.

Sexually I do understand the experience of total dominaition, but I also understand total submission.

I demand nothing less than heaven on earth.

I will not negotiate; I only make demands.

The Devil has already offered me the keys to his kingdom.

I shall anyway take them by force and by the power of my will and my magick.

I am not the Devil's slave but his master.

His kingdom shall fall.

Lucifer
Fire, plague and poisoned waters

[boots]

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

No. False premise.

Bollocks.