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Old 30-03-2009, 12:06 AM   #1
dont_play_nice_
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Default Arizona Wilder

Just watching Revelations of a Mother Goddess now on google video...
Has anyone else watched this? I'm finding it all hard to take in. The woman is speaking very robotically, almost as if it is all scripted.
Did anyone else notice this when they watched? Or does anyone have any background o her that gives her story more credibility? Why hasnt she been killed for revealing this information/escaping from their mind control?
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Old 30-03-2009, 10:45 PM   #2
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no-one at all?
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Old 31-03-2009, 06:41 AM   #3
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Cool

This?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...38414420676723

Don't think I've seen it yet - will check it out.
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Old 03-04-2009, 11:32 AM   #4
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yeah thats the one, i dunno, to me she just seems really dull, as if she is reeling a script off for the purpose of the tape.
Maybe i just find some of her claims too fantastic to believe right now, as i'm still unsure of the existence of reptilians and all these goings on
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:14 PM   #5
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Yes I watched the mother goddess dvd.

It looked like it was all set up could not believe a single word she said.Something did not feel right.



David Icke, Arizona Wilder and the Biggest Secret
By Ivan Fraser

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=54

The following is a short summary of a minor investigation into aspects of David Icke’s latest book and his star witnesses Arizona Wilder and Credo Mutwa. Wilder claims to have been a mind controlled slave who performed Satanic rituals for the Illuminati at which she witnessed many famous people including the Queen Mother, shapeshift physically from a human to a lizard and consume sacrificial victims. She claims that since her programming broke down she has been able to reveal this information to the wider public.

My own role in the Biggest Secret saga was that I was asked by David to help him check spelling and offer any further information to his initial draft of the book. It was following my input that David was introduced to Arizona and heard her revelations, which subsequently became a focal point within the book and used as ‘evidence’ to support various themes outlined therein.

Having discussed my concerns with David’s wife and having sent David e-mails outlining my concerns over errors in his book and a feeling I have that he has been set up with misinformation and been the target of psychic manipulation, over a period from before publication to very recently (September 1999), and as yet having absolutely no feedback from David about any of the major concerns, I decided to publish my findings at the David Icke website forum.

Consequently, I was banned from attending that forum by David Icke.

I wish it to be known that I bear David Icke no malice over this affair and the reason for publishing this information is to seek clarification and also offer information of which most may not be aware. My fears may be unfounded, but I feel that after reading this, you may see they are justified. And if my fears have solid foundation, these issues need urgent clarification, both for the sake of David Icke and his readers.

My suspicions about Arizona Wilder (AW) first manifested the first time I heard of her. Something in me said, ‘something isn’t right here’. A familiar feeling which usually turns out to be trustworthy, as anyone who has read Lifting The Veil knows.

She was not mentioned at all in the draft copy of The Biggest Secret (TBS) which I had read. David had not met her yet. When the book was released people started ringing me with questions like, ‘is it true about the reptiles’, and ‘is this stuff about the royal family true’. At which time I replied that I thought it was, based on the fact that the version I had read stated only the theory of the reptilians and that certain of the Royals were involved in Satanic rituals.

Soon I heard about Arizona Wilder. I reviewed the book again, this time the printed version, and asked Linda Icke (the British manager of Bridge of Love) to send a copy of the video from which AW’s testimony was taken. I was by this time very dubious about AW’s statements. Her statements had already overshadowed those of Christine Fitzgerald, Princess Diana’s healer and confidante, which were prominent in the version I read and which were not so sensational. However, Fitzgerald’s account may have been a ‘taster’ for what was to come, to ease the way for the far more incredible information which Wilder had to impart.

David stated that he saw his encounter with AW as an amazing synchronicity which endorsed his work in his latest book. How could she have known all of this stuff which tallied so exactly with TBS? Well, I believe I am not as naÔve as David, and I know exactly how she could have known. He was passing copies of the book via post to me and others for editing. It was on computer. Both are simple to access by Intelligence people. We had also spoken over the phone about the reptilian issue. In fact I am shocked that David does not see this as a possibility himself.

This brings I another character who is pivotal to the entire Biggest Secret thesis. It was a contact of David’s named Brian Desborough who introduced Arizona to David. Brian is mentioned as a source for a great deal of information in the book, having supplied most of the material upon which David based his idea that Martians came to Earth and founded the Aryan race which the reptilians used as a vehicle to overtake the planet. Brian is also the source of much of the information David had compiled on the Babylonian world, its myths and how they fed into the
sinister secret societies.

It was Brian Desborough, a scientist and researcher who had worked for several aerospace companies, who was also looking at the draft copy of the Biggest Secret at the same time as myself; i.e. before David met Arizona Wilder. Therefore the fact that Brian Desborough may be responsible for fundamentally leading the direction of David’s research, if not planting much of the basis of the book in David’s mind, is obvious. But then to be the same person responsible for giving him a so-called eye-witness to testify to the verity of that information is highly suspicious. Brian also writes articles on mind control and seems very knowledgeable on the subject. Is it possible that he could be directly involved in some way that we are not being told about? Cathy O’Brien testifies to having been taken to military aerospace locations and NASA bases for trauma-based programming.

David met AW and interviewed her for about 2 hours. Some of the questions were quite leading, but her testimony revealed an awful lot if you know what you are looking for. She did indeed endorse a great deal of David’s own theses; that is other people’s theses (again including many of Desborough’s) which David has agreed with. So closely, in fact, you would almost think she had already read the book - or had been given the information beforehand! Or, considering that she claims to be an ex-mind controlled slave, could it be she was pre-programmed? Testimony from Mark Philips and Cathy O’Brien as to how arduous it is to deprogram a CIA slave makes me very suspicious that AW could be considered reliable. She claims that since her programmer died, the programming broke down. I don’t believe this can be accepted as such, and external experts would have to be brought in to convince me that if she was controlled to the highest level, that she could be so deprogrammed now as to be considered reliable.

And don’t forget how much influence her testimony had to the final version of David’s book. It was her and only her who provided all the information about physically shapeshifting royalty, Pindar, the Belgian blood rituals which were allegedly attended by everyone from Laurence Gardner (!!??) to the Queen Mother!

Before I watched the video I dowsed the box with a pendulum and asked questions. I don’t usually use dowsing, but considered it may be useful to evaluate this case from as many angles as I could because if I was correct in my gut feeling then I had stumbled upon some very significant realisations. The basic questions were:

Was she going to be telling me the truth? Yes. Wow! I hadn’t expected that.

Was she also going to be telling lies? Yes. Ah!

As I thought she was a Multiple Personality, I assumed that she had been set up. So I asked, ‘Is she going to deliberately misinform David?’ Yes. This made me curious because I thought she would be doing it from programming.

I always like to ask questions I know the answers of now and then to check whether I am interpreting the pendulum correctly.

So I asked a question I was sure of the answer to: ‘Is she a programmed multiple?’ No. That was absolutely the last thing I expected. I couldn’t see how she could be lying to deliberately misinform and not been a set-up multiple stooge.

‘Then she isn’t a multiple?’ Yes.

‘So has she ever been programmed as a multiple?’ No.

‘She is going to lie deliberately in full awareness?’ Yes.

Now that was only an initial test and I don’t put too much store in my abilities as a dowser. But I tell you my line of enquiry so that you know.

So I watched the video in order to get the full picture.

As I said, her testimony tallied so well with David’s that I can see how he was so impressed. He has always stated that he works on cross-referencing testimonies and ‘synchronicities’ as proof. Well, this time I think the Intelligence people took advantage of that one!

More revealing, however, about AW’s ‘evidence’ was that she demonised the ancient archetypes and occult images throughout. Osiris, Isis, Druids, even Harvest Festival. My own research tells me that there is a very positive side to these things. In fact these things are exactly what the Bible was written to obscure. AW’s testimony was overtly Judeo-Christian in its level of gross and blanket demonisation of the occult. Something which I had warned David about doing when I read his draft. Something which he promised to amend for the final version.

But of course, that was before he met AW. And as a consequence of her testimony, it seems, David decided not to balance out his demonisation, but instead increased it. If I was going to set David up to make that mistake, that’s exactly how I would have done it!

Then came some obvious bloopers. Having claimed to have been a multiple, she also states she forgets certain names of people. Multiples have photographic memory and perfect recall (see Cathy O’Brien’s testimonies). This memory lapse does not happen in recovered multiples.

Her facts were either regularly wrong, or so full of spin that she was hardly credible. Other information is impossible for anyone to verify, conveniently.

I checked with 2 occultists about her description of the demon raising ritual and both stated she had it wrong. Strange for a top level Satanist!

Then she targeted Sitchin and Gardner and said they take part in blood rituals with the Royals where shapeshifting happens. Considering Gardner’s books are revealing profound insights into the ancient knowledge, I am not surprised they wanted him demonised. I personally do not believe this testimony. I do however, think that Sitchin has been less than honest in his research, but again, the statement that he takes part in murderous rituals is more than I will accept without some pretty firm proof. But proof is offered nowhere in relation to AW’s testimony.

She states the royal lizards change back to lizards when asleep. Considering how many of them were educated in schools where they also lived amongst hundreds of others in dorms, and how many of them were in the armed forces, you would think someone would have noticed this little thing!

She states that the royal lizards can’t stay in human form at the scent of blood and transform and go crazy, ripping into their victims. And in all those years nobody has ever noticed this when they have cut themselves, been around blood, menstruating women etc. Considering they are so public, there is no way they have never been in the vicinity of blood. No signs there though either.

I thought, ‘this is just too ridiculous for words. David how the hell are you allowing this nonsense to influence you?’

She regularly inverts important ideas. The ancient Egyptians were anointed with the fat of the dragon - the sacred crocodile. AW states that the royal lizards anoint themselves with the fat of humans. Head lizard is Pindar. How similar is Pindar to ben Pandir, the Talmudic name for Jesus? Reversal at a deep archetypal and psychological level? I think so. And there are more examples too numerous to go into. I think you get the point.

Then strange things started happening as I watched the video. I kept getting psychic impressions of other people overlaid on her face. The first, Ingrid Pitt, whom I associate with Countess Bathory as she played her in the film Countess Dracula. Bathory is reputed to have been kept young by bathing in the blood of virgins.

Then, of all people, Jimmy Carter. I immediately recall David’s testimony in ‘And The Truth Shall Set You Free’, where he describes being possessed by Carter’s energy from which he needed healing later. Was that a hint that David had been possessed again?

Then Sigourney Weaver. I had been informed by a seer once that she is a predator vehicle, like many others in the Hollywood scene. That is, she is possessed by the reptoid/Luciferic consciousness. I cannot claim to know that to be true, but it did seem to fit very neatly with the scenario I was experiencing.

Then a face I couldn’t put a name to at first. I didn’t know where I had seen her. Then later I realised, it was the face of the head alien reptile in the television series V, called Diana. A reptile in human skin who was conning the world to believe that the reptile aliens were on their side.

Was my higher self telling me something here or what?! Was AW a predator vehicle too, and not a multiple at all, like the dowsing suggested?

Again, I wanted more proof.

As I had been a nurse for 9 years, I am quite aware of body language and communication. What I was seeing with AW was someone who was far too inexpressive with her hands and expressions. She seemed to be deliberately avoiding any kind of body language in case she gave the game away.

I also know a genuine multiple who HAS performed satanic ritual called Patti and whom I had introduced David to years ago, setting him off on the track of this whole Satanic thing. He refers to her in his books ‘I Am Me, I Am Free’ and ‘The Biggest Secret’ as ‘a contact from Darlington’. I know this woman well and am accustomed to her body language and how she flips between personalities and how she displays quite notable body language if you know what you are looking for. I also have interviewed her priest (an exorcist) and her ex-Harley Street therapist and discussed this subject at length. And I have spoken to Cathy O’Brien and Mark Philips about this, albeit briefly.

To me, AW was not displaying what I expected in terms of body language. Everything I saw told me she was hiding something.

So I contacted the aforementioned expert; a professional therapist, specialising in multiples and victims of abuse, including those from government level paedophile circles. I had introduced her to David a couple of years ago and he mentions her in TBS. She looked at the video and agreed with my analysis. AW was not a multiple, nor seems to have ever been one. Her body language did not reveal this and suggested that she was deliberately lying and trying to keep from revealing this. She also has grave concerns about David, his health, his reptilian thesis, and that he may be under a great deal of pressure and psychic attack from those trying to pervert his work. She agreed that what I suspected was the more likely case - AW is a deliberate set up and her testimony is absolutely not to be trusted.

I also emailed Cathy O’Brien and Mark Philips for a comment from them, but got no response. I later heard from another contact that they were avoiding speaking out about David’s latest book.

I later got calls from some very concerned people telling me that AW tripped their inner warning bells so much that they couldn’t accept her testimony and for that reason were very dubious about the book.

Others contacted me to say they were seeing negative energies around David.

If AW is a Satanist and has the kind of power she claims - and she would have to be one of the world’s most powerful magicians to work for the global elite in their highest rituals - then David is in extreme danger of being infected by her demonic magic if he spends any time with her. If I am wrong, and she is a multiple, but has not recovered, she may be working on David without either his or her knowledge.

She also claims to be part of a church involved in satanic ritual. But she also claims to be out of it. But she also knows enough to warn people about forthcoming rituals. Is she in, or is she out? Who can tell?

How is she still around considering what she is revealing?

How did they let her programming slip?

How come she was performing rituals with the likes of Tony Blair (that means it must be very recent) at a time when her programming was coming apart? I have seen the chaos Patti goes through as she has been regaining coherence over the years. And this is the woman we are expected was performing the highest level rituals in the world? Give me a break!

So I phoned Linda Icke. I told her of my concerns. As well as my concerns over David’s historical inaccuracies, lack of occult understanding, and flaws in his reptilian thesis. I said I was concerned that he had stated on radio that he was unusually drained of energy and had been ill for a while. She agreed I may be right and said that David has to face his own mistakes and defend himself in his own way.

Amazingly, when I told her what had transpired over the video and what I had looked into, she told me that David doesn’t actually trust AW!!!! ‘He’s the first to say "you can’t trust her,"’ she said!!!

So why is he selling a 2-hour interview with the woman?!

Why is he accepting her testimony at all?

Why has he refashioned so much of his work around her claims?

If it hadn’t been for her, the text would be far less sensational, less risible and have a far more balanced analysis of the occult.

This single woman has so overshadowed the real information in TBS that I no longer am able to trust a lot of it simply on David’s say so. I no longer trust David’s previously excellent antenna for getting to the truth.

Has Wilder also done something to David to lower his guard and turn him around? He certainly does not seem to me to be the same man he was. And that is what I am hearing time and time again from other people too.

I then contacted two people whom I know and trust who I consider to be as knowledgeable about the psychic aspects as I believe anybody could be. They both said the video was total nonsense. One (a well known author and Remote Viewing and mind control expert) agreed with my analysis 100%, that she was part of an Intelligence set up.

I showed Patti. She called the video, ‘A piece of shit.’ But granted, she may not be considered the ideal judge.

I had reports of people hosting David’s lectures who were so disturbed by the incredibility of the video that they stated that if it were not for the fact that it was David supporting it, they would never have sold it.

Then consider the Illuminati ritual post on the website, which I refer to in my chapter The Predators (Truth Campaign magazine 14). AW and David warn people about key dates and asked them to send love and light to the reptiles. As I pointed out in the article, this only feeds the problem as they are feeding an illusion - a psychotronic virus. Moreover, on one of the dates mentioned, I attended, but did not partake in, a mass channelling meditation, which was actually a guided meditation which opened the participating crowd up to predator possession.

I feel compelled to see this as further confirmation that the entire AW scenario is part of a wider conspiracy to jointly misinform, psychically attack and control the audience!

Who is influencing David Icke and why? The results of following the book, and his advice certainly seem sinister.

Then we had the solar eclipse, another blood ritual date according to AW. David went to the Great Pyramid in Egypt on that date for the eclipse and made all kinds of superficial comments about what seemed to be going on there. He said people were prevented from going in, that the attendees may be using underground tunnels to get in to do their blood rituals etc. No proof. And everything was adequately explained by Amargi Hiller, an independent journalist who works closely investigating the Giza site, in a message which was posted on David’s Forum.

But what did David do?

On this very powerful day, he had people all over the world sending thought energy based upon the most horrific images of blood-spattered tombs and child sacrifice, DIRECTED AT PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL ENERGY POINT IN THE WORLD! Did they really need to do a blood ritual with that kind of energy focussed on it? Is this another way that David has been set up to actually do the very job he is trying to expose?

I refer you to my chapter on the predators to see how that may fit into the Illuminati agenda.

Soon after this, David re-emerged from a trip to Africa announcing a new video called The Reptilian Agenda, which is an interview with a Zulu shaman called Credo Mutwa, who is confirming the existence of shapeshifting reptilians.

Credo recounts various ancient Zulu myths about the reptilian race which manipulates mankind, which are taken literally by himself and Icke and seen as remarkable confirmation of the reptile/human-race theory; although Credo’s version is that the race actually originated on Earth, left it and returned. Furthermore, the central reptile/Aryan race thesis is fundamentally challenged by Mutwa’s assertion that the black leaders of his country, and their bloodlines are from the reptilian race also.

Mutwa also speaks about personal encounters with ‘grey’ aliens, which he states are servants of the reptilians. He recounts eating the ‘grey, rather dry’ skin of the greys - which caused an hallucinogenic experience very reminiscent of LSD or similar drug experiences as well as a rash and intense itching. This, again, parallels MKULTRA mind control experiments/implantation experiences described by military abductees. Mutwa elsewhere, rather contradictorily, states elsewhere that ‘greys’ are actually reptilians with an artificial ‘skin’. This contradiction is not challenged by Icke.

Interestingly, this man claims to have been abducted 40 years ago by greys, had something stuffed up his nose into his head etc. In an interview with The Spectrum Newspaper, Mutwa recalls walking down the street one day when a man approached him and quizzed him about knowing him from somewhere, and he recalled a memory about being in the underground facility where he was taken following his abduction, where he was experimented on by ‘greys’ in ways remarkably consistent with the classic MILAB (Military Abduction) scenario.

Mutwa states in the interview that this exact same thing has happened to many of his people.

The link with Montauk is also interesting. One engineer working on the ‘Montauk Project’, Preston Nichols, talks of having worked in the project - which included abductions for mind control. He says he remembers working in underground bases where greys and a reptilian creature also were. He recovered the memory of this after being confronted in the street by a man quizzing him on having seen him somewhere before.

This parallel, almost identical, scenario seems to be too coincidental. I think the greys and reptoid were implants in the vein described by Helmut Lammer in his book MILABS. Both tales have all the hallmarks of mind control. Mutwa is therefore, for my money, not a credible witness for David Icke.

David sees Mutwa as ‘proof’ of his thesis in his latest book, and since slightly altered aspects of his views to accommodate Mutwa’s new information. Again, there is severe doubt cast on yet another of David’s main sources of information on the reptilian issue.

However, the alien abduction issue aside, Mutwa seems a very genuine and sincere man, bravely determined to tell the world about what he feels is the plight of his people and their dreadful manipulation by the Illuminati forces. His interview with Spectrum can be read on Icke’s website.

Both Mutwa and Wilder may be consciously absolutely genuine in recounting their experiences according to their memories. But knowing what we do about the long history of Illuminati/intelligence/military abduction and false memory implantation, mind-control etc., for propaganda, subversion and discrediting of witnesses purposes, I believe we need to be extremely careful before buying into what amount to little more than two circumstantial stories that offer next to no proof, given what we know of their backgrounds. One is a self-admitted Illuminati agent, and the other a self-admitted ‘alien abductee’.

I ask you to consider this. Ask you self who benefits from you buying into Wilder’s and Credo Mutwa’s stories? Then consider what David says himself: ‘JUST A COINCIDENCE, NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!’

It’s entirely up to you. I am just giving this from my viewpoint.

I may be wrong. If I am, I apologise unreservedly for casting aspersions on those who may be genuine. But I think there are enough doubts to warrant further explanation from someone at Bridge of Love. Because if Wilder’s and Desborough’s claims in The Biggest Secret are essentially true, then it needs to be acted upon as a matter of urgency. But the evidence needs to be as accurate and enforceable as possible. At present I don’t believe that a large amount of the so-called ‘evidence’ is any more than highly speculative, inaccurate and suspicious.

Does anybody have any more information to add to this?

Do David or Brian Desborough have any information to give us to show us we can trust Wilder? Is there anything David could tell us about Brian Desborough’s background to allay any doubts we may have about his integrity, considering his massive influence in the content and direction of The Biggest Secret?

Does anybody have any direct proof of any of the wild claims being made? For example, if Mutwa has captured greys and eaten them, then are there any remains, photographs or corroborating witnesses to present? For, until some actual evidence of this story appears, all we have is a very good draft of a science fiction novel that still needs careful work to iron out the inconsistencies in the plot.

I wonder how many of the loopholes in the story will be closed as the thesis is conveniently ironed out over time, so that it serves as the ‘master-theory’ of conspiracy theories? How many remarkable witnesses will appear who have more pieces of the jigsaw as David strives to prove that his theory is really the Biggest Secret?

One historical inconsistency of David’s book has been closed by Mutwa, as he tells of how the reptilians ordered that no direct image of their real appearance was to be depicted by anyone, otherwise that would mean instant death. This conveniently closes a loophole which David missed in his book, that despite claims by him to the contrary, there are actually very few depictions of reptilian gods in ancient sources. Of course we now know why. Instead, we are told, people depicted them in code, using various ciphers such as fish scaled creatures instead of reptilian scales etc.

But oddly, in an interview with Jeff Rense on his Sightings radio show on 14 October 1999, Mutwa claimed that the figure of Darth Maul - the alien ‘baddie’ in the latest Star Wars movie – is an absolute dead ringer for one of these ‘gods’, right down to the colour. As yet, I have not heard of the mass demise of George Lucas or the Star Wars makeup department and design team. Like the above example of the grey flesh vs. artificial skin contradiction, such inconsistencies go unchallenged by Icke and, it seems, by most of his audience. David has an excellent track record of bringing hard to get information into the wider public arena. He has worked extremely hard and endured a great deal of ridicule for courageously speaking out and standing up for what he believes in. It would be ‘The Biggest Shame’, if his efforts and work were to be overtaken and used by the very forces he seeks to expose.
From The Truth Campaign issue 15

Ivan Fraser

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Last edited by nirvana; 03-04-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:36 PM   #6
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Pleased to meet you (New here).

A few points.

I generally accept Icke's analysis of modern history with regards to secret societies, Anglo-American-Zionist state terrorism etc., but when it comes to the 'Reptilian' issue, I am not a believer.

On Arizona Wilder

I think that it is an established fact that the US government has had mind control programs (such as MKultra) where victims have been experimented on in various ways.

If Arizona was part of that, I think it quite natural that it has left her with a great deal of trauma and that if she comes across as schizophrenic (shattered mind) that would be quite normal given the circumstances.

She does go into a great deal of detail, and the position that many of the establishment belong to some type of cult of which ritual abuse plays a role has been testified to by many others; it is not so unbelievable.

Reptiles.

I have been experimenting with numerous shamanic substances since my teens, including running a professional psilocybe lab when it was legal over here (UK) and have had access to almost unlimited doses. Often it was the case that the CIA would give a victim the equivalent of 1000 tabs of acid. I have never went that far, since I doubt whether anyone would ever return to sanity after that. However I have had numerous shamanic experiences which would allow me to relate to Arizona's experiences.

I do not doubt the existence of other dimensional beings (the gods, ancestors, etc) but I not believe in shape shifting reptiles; I think that almost anyone who has experimented with shamanic psychoactives could relate to Arizona's tale, however such experiences are subjective and not objective; they are not part of the 5 senses experience; I've had similar experiences myself, but they were simply occurring within my mind.

I think it is rather sad that Icke buys into the 'reptilian' agenda since otherwise his writings are rather insightful.

Evil men (it is mostly men) rule the world; they are Capitalists and cultists, but reptiles? I think not. Demons certainly.

Coming from the far political left, I find I can barely mention David Icke in such circles without instant ridicule and the 'reptile' issue being mentioned, which is a great shame since Icke's analysis of Capitalism and cultism is something which many of the Left simply do not understand and frankly they urgently need to.

Love and Light

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Old 07-04-2009, 05:14 AM   #7
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I keep an open mind to interdimensional beings, but how can we trust it wasn't because of mind control she claimed to see reptilians?
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:40 AM   #8
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They are programmed not to, as you point out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post

Coming from the far political left, I find I can barely mention David Icke in such circles without instant ridicule and the 'reptile' issue being mentioned, which is a great shame since Icke's analysis of Capitalism and cultism is something which many of the Left simply do not understand and frankly they urgently need to.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:51 PM   #9
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Can't stand the woman. Look at the way she moves in the interview; she doesn't. I think she's scared of making any gestures whatsoever that might give away body language clues that she's lying her arse off.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:47 AM   #10
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Default E-mail from Ivan Fraser about Arizona Wilder

I saw the Arizona Wilder video back in 2005 or something, when I was very uncritical to all the conspiracy stuff. The more fantastic, the more I believed it. Some year ago I also read the article about Arizona Wilder and had a e-mail correspondence with Ivan Fraser about the matter and how David Icke sometimes don't always check with his "sources". The text in italic is mine.

Hi Nicky!


If, like Arizona says, Sitchin is a shape shifter, and his books contain disinformation, why did David not mention this in The Biggest Secret where he refers to Sitchin. Probably, like you pointed out in the article, because he didn't trust what Arizona said.


It's probably simpler than that. When he gave me the book to proof-read, it was clear that he only had a superficial knowledge of the Sumerian material, and that it came from Sitchin. Because of this, I don't think he realised that Sitchin is the primary author of the 'Sumerian texts depict ancient astronauts' material. When I talked to him about Sitchin's idea of the Sumerian gods, he wasn't very well informed even as to the Sitchin material.

One of my main criticisms of David's work is that most of it is a collation of whatever he has been reading since his last book. He very rarely has much mastery over individual subjects - enough to proffer a truly educated opinion. His ideas usually sound well-researched and reasonable at first glance, but from experience, when I have researched them myself, I have found it shallow and often at odds with common sense.

He clearly had read a Sitchin book, and that was his basis for his opinions. Considering many of the ET-based opinions he has read in other books trace back to Sitchin, he is contradicting himself by propounding the Sitchin theories whilst identifying him as an agent of the Illuminati. He also read a book by LA Waddell, about the Britons' origins, which also references certain Sumerian and Indian history. By combining the 2, he has created a new and original idea of shapeshifting Aryan bloodlines from Sumer. The follow up to TBS was even more outlandish, by maintaining that Waddell's work is accurate, but claiming that Waddell didn't take into account the 'fact' that the Sumer Aryans he writes about were ETs.

When you dismiss Sitchin's material - rightly - as utter bunk, you are left with very interesting material and theories presented by Waddell, which stand alone, without need for amendment, gods, ets or spaceships.

I'm also a regular subscriber to David Icke's newsletter and now he also has video-casts which are available on his website. On one of those video-casts he invited subscribers to London to personally ask him questions. One of the invited subscribers, a guy from Belfast, asked him a very interesting question. He told David that Chris Everard, the conspiracy documentary film maker who also worked with David, told him that he thought that Arizona and Credo Mutwa is CIA mind controlled agents who have disinformed Icke. Just like you pointed out. David answered, and I quote, "There are no question at all that Arizona Wilder was a mind controlled..." and he goes on and says that the information she gave to him has been supported by so many other people. But is that actually true? Other people have probably talked about shape shifting reptilians but not of shape shifting royal reptilians involved in satanic rituals.

Icke and Desborough do not make sense. If AW was mind controlled and her brain altered, as they claim, they cannot trust her story. If she was a high level Satanist priestess, involved with royalty etc. then why is her knowledge of the occult so shallow and why does she present Sitchin's material to Icke in the video as well as condemning him - just as Icke does.

People have told Icke about seeing shapeshifting - yes. It's not a new phenomenon. People have told him about Satanic goings-on with politicians aristocracy and royals - yes. Stories have been rife for years about such things. Powerful people are often involved in extreme acts and secret societies.

David needs to present evidence which isn't tainted by obvious garbage about ETs and Aryan bloodlines etc. before he will be convincing though.

You say 'I absolutely believe there are greys and reptile-like aliens out there,' - that's something I really cannot understand, considering the dubiousness of the evidence that I have seen and researched over the years. I think it's clear some quarters, such as the CIA, would love us to believe that.

I personally believe that we are controlled by 'beings' such as lost souls and thought-forms in the astral dimension, who were once alive, and were as real as you and I. Texts going back aeons write about such things, but these days UFO buffs tend to translate them into ETs, whereas they shouldn't be.

David's had some good ideas in his time, I agree. But he remains essentially a guy who collates the material of others, and therefore he's only as good as his sources. So I read the sources and make up my own mind. Icke therefore, is obsolete for me, except as a factor of focus for so many people interested in this material.

He is certainly dynamic and a great presenter. He gets people hooked. But he's still a fallible guy with biases and opinions, and prone to error just as we all are.

It's easier to read Icke's latest book than the numerous books on numerous subjects that comprise the bibliography. And it's up to the reader to decide whether or not they believe. I personally take his ideas with a pinch of salt, and if he makes me interested, I will then go and find out from the material that made him interested, just why. But usually, when he comes up with something original, I come away disappointed thinking 'how did he conclude what he did from this source material?' When he reports facts and figures, I usually find they are just repeated directly from the source material, sometimes in a way that is close to plagiarism.

In summary, Icke's work has lost 90% of its appeal for me. Why go to the monkey when you can go to the organ grinder for the information?

Best wishes

Ivan

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Old 10-04-2009, 11:59 AM   #11
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I think you are right on the money there scone. I feel her story is a load of rubbish. As if somebody who claims to have been into all that stuff would be allowed to write books on it and still be alive.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:32 AM   #12
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
Pleased to meet you (New here).

A few points.

I generally accept Icke's analysis of modern history with regards to secret societies, Anglo-American-Zionist state terrorism etc., but when it comes to the 'Reptilian' issue, I am not a believer.

On Arizona Wilder

I think that it is an established fact that the US government has had mind control programs (such as MKultra) where victims have been experimented on in various ways.

If Arizona was part of that, I think it quite natural that it has left her with a great deal of trauma and that if she comes across as schizophrenic (shattered mind) that would be quite normal given the circumstances.

She does go into a great deal of detail, and the position that many of the establishment belong to some type of cult of which ritual abuse plays a role has been testified to by many others; it is not so unbelievable.

Reptiles.

I have been experimenting with numerous shamanic substances since my teens, including running a professional psilocybe lab when it was legal over here (UK) and have had access to almost unlimited doses. Often it was the case that the CIA would give a victim the equivalent of 1000 tabs of acid. I have never went that far, since I doubt whether anyone would ever return to sanity after that. However I have had numerous shamanic experiences which would allow me to relate to Arizona's experiences.

I do not doubt the existence of other dimensional beings (the gods, ancestors, etc) but I not believe in shape shifting reptiles; I think that almost anyone who has experimented with shamanic psychoactives could relate to Arizona's tale, however such experiences are subjective and not objective; they are not part of the 5 senses experience; I've had similar experiences myself, but they were simply occurring within my mind.

I think it is rather sad that Icke buys into the 'reptilian' agenda since otherwise his writings are rather insightful.

Evil men (it is mostly men) rule the world; they are Capitalists and cultists, but reptiles? I think not. Demons certainly.

Coming from the far political left, I find I can barely mention David Icke in such circles without instant ridicule and the 'reptile' issue being mentioned, which is a great shame since Icke's analysis of Capitalism and cultism is something which many of the Left simply do not understand and frankly they urgently need to.

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Yes, I can see what you mean, Luciferhorus. I haven't made up my mind about reptileans. Are their extraterrestials? I think most certainly. Other than that, I can't say.
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Old 20-05-2009, 07:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quetzalcoatl View Post
This?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...38414420676723

Don't think I've seen it yet - will check it out.
I did watch this video. Here is what I think:

The most suspicious part of the whole story is the involvment of
Josef Mengele in the mind-programming of Arizona Wilder. Now, she clearly mispronounces his name. For someone who had allegedely known the man personally she should have known better. The whole idea of Mengele walking in broad daylight in Southern California (where substantial number of Jews live), taking into account that he had been on the most wanted list of Nazi war criminals ever since 1944, is totaly ludicrous. I do not buy this one bit.
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Old 23-02-2011, 02:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by dont_play_nice_ View Post
Just watching Revelations of a Mother Goddess now on google video...
Has anyone else watched this? I'm finding it all hard to take in. The woman is speaking very robotically, almost as if it is all scripted.
Did anyone else notice this when they watched? Or does anyone have any background o her that gives her story more credibility? Why hasnt she been killed for revealing this information/escaping from their mind control?

Listen it's sick f@cking world when you resort to make a cult of control
out of nature. . .and prey on the women and children. . .sort your catholic
wipe ass church. . .12 disciples . . .or 12 cranial nerves. . .beheadings
and don't listen to any thing from the neck. . up Like little vampires
you've used her up. .. .used up earth for 'living things'. . .why is your
tastes are always to burn baby girls for your baal cult. . .that sets you
on high. . .makes you higher than god. . .

I hope all stupid atheist go to eternal hell along with all football fields
made just for kicks and get your jollies off. . .

take you deplorable conditions and criteria to 'live' here. . .for all your ;living things. . .
that you prode and sacrifice for. . your sadist masochist joke at the woman

and what you get off on. . .

take it and put in a sinkhole along with cell phones the internet tall buildings. . .nuclear weapons that can't hit a target, enriched uranium flowers, airplanes, musle cars and all things electric. ..

cause you know as the sell pitch goes on TV. . .your bull. . .
the bodies electric . . .

may the blue bird paradise crap and crap all over your stupid head
cause the earth dosen't want you here. . .nor do you deserve it. .either

take religion rituals and shove it with the death dumb and blind

if it hasn't . . .its coming to your neighborhood soon

it's because of you there is the death dumb and blind. . .and you want
more of the same. . .? huh
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Old 24-02-2011, 04:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bard View Post
I did watch this video. Here is what I think:

The most suspicious part of the whole story is the involvment of
Josef Mengele in the mind-programming of Arizona Wilder. Now, she clearly mispronounces his name. For someone who had allegedely known the man personally she should have known better. The whole idea of Mengele walking in broad daylight in Southern California (where substantial number of Jews live), taking into account that he had been on the most wanted list of Nazi war criminals ever since 1944, is totaly ludicrous. I do not buy this one bit.
I see what you mean. However this is not even close to the only person that went through this that had mentioned his involvement.

They also said that he is totally healthy even today because of youth breakthrough he had. He looks like a normal, young guy right now. It isn't just her saying it. It sounds ludicrous, but then again at this point what doesn't?
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by nirvana View Post
Yes I watched the mother goddess dvd.

It looked like it was all set up could not believe a single word she said.Something did not feel right.



David Icke, Arizona Wilder and the Biggest Secret
By Ivan Fraser

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=54

Before I watched the video I dowsed the box with a pendulum and asked questions. I donít usually use dowsing, but considered it may be useful to evaluate this case from as many angles as I could because if I was correct in my gut feeling then I had stumbled upon some very significant realisations. The basic questions were:

I checked with 2 occultists about her description of the demon raising ritual and both stated she had it wrong. Strange for a top level Satanist!

Then strange things started happening as I watched the video. I kept getting psychic impressions of other people overlaid on her face. The first, Ingrid Pitt, whom I associate with Countess Bathory as she played her in the film Countess Dracula. Bathory is reputed to have been kept young by bathing in the blood of virgins.

Then, of all people, Jimmy Carter. I immediately recall Davidís testimony in ĎAnd The Truth Shall Set You Freeí, where he describes being possessed by Carterís energy from which he needed healing later. Was that a hint that David had been possessed again?

Then Sigourney Weaver. I had been informed by a seer once that she is a predator vehicle, like many others in the Hollywood scene. That is, she is possessed by the reptoid/Luciferic consciousness. I cannot claim to know that to be true, but it did seem to fit very neatly with the scenario I was experiencing.

Then a face I couldnít put a name to at first. I didnít know where I had seen her. Then later I realised, it was the face of the head alien reptile in the television series V, called Diana. A reptile in human skin who was conning the world to believe that the reptile aliens were on their side.


From The Truth Campaign issue 15

Ivan Fraser

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Oh boy... sigh... I accidently cut it out but people cannot be effected by others demonic energy enough to change their behavior except under extreme and certain situations.

There are many different rituals, not all are alike.

Using a pendulim only tells you what your subconscous believes

Seeing other people's faces especially famous people OVER someone elses face? Huh? Bizarre

I know many times when people have to recount something horrible they simply lose all emotion while speaking of it. it's a defence mechanism.

I don't really care about ms wilder's interview. I have seen a part of it, wasn't impressed and went on. But the author of this certainly didn't seem stable.
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Old 24-02-2011, 09:55 AM   #18
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The issue over the occult stuff is variable. Wilder states in the use of the rituals she sat in the triangle. This is to do with the symbolism of Binah in Qabbalah and therefore Saturn).

It has been documented that one of Crowleys greatest magickal achievements was to corrupt and invert the normal use of the circle and triangle used in magickal work. He purposely sat in a triangle when using Enochian keys to bring through the demon/daimon Choronzon of the abyss when he was in Tunisia with the poet Victor Nueberg.

The reference for the circle and the triangle is from Goetia/ Key of Solomon magickal texts. To summon Goetia "demons"/entities the tradition is that the occultist would use the circle to protect themself and bind and restrict the conjured "demon" in the triangle with protective names of god surrounding the triangle. But Crowley inverted this to become one with the entity Choronzon and existing simultaneously in the abyss with Choronzon and not perishing.


So now thats out the way it puts Wilder's comments in a totally different context. They would have used her to be a conduit for what they wanted to pull through from the occult realms. In a way it would be similar to how Voodoo priests allow themselves to be "mounted"/possessed to bring through the spirits.

So Wilder's comments on the occult stuff is actually consistent to occult theory if you know where to look.
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Old 24-02-2011, 11:05 AM   #19
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Wilder isn't remotely beliveably, and comes across as mentally unwell.

It says a great deal about Icke that he would have no qualms about pushing her bullshit out into the world.
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:08 PM   #20
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Well Karen3 i think i would be unwell too if i had to experience child abuse, rape, murder, human sacrifice and non human entities. If anything it shows integrity in her.

And how would you know if what she is saying is "bullshit"? By its definition the occult is just that;occult. hidden. What do you know of the occult Karen3?
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