Goddess symbolism within freemasonry

[ban freekmasons]

http://www.womanthouartgod.com/wmbondfreemasonry.php

[eastbeast]

Nice try Mr. Spam,

However this falls flat on its arse in the second paragraph, which reads as follows:

I am myself am not a Freemason so any knowledge and understanding from this article, only comes only from my interpretation of Mason symbols. I have had a deep interest in Goddess religions for nearly 30 years, so I am looking at Freemasonry from this point of view. Yet if my interpretation of the symbols are correct, they tell a very different story about Freemasonry, than what the general public is led to believe. They even had the audacity to erect a giant statue of a Sun Goddess in New York harbour. Which they called the Statue of Liberty.

End of para.

Now I can't see why it was 'audacious', nor can I see what the 'different story' might be.


Para 4:
The symbolism of the Statue shows she is a Sun Goddess. We can see this by the ray of the sun coming out of her head dress and the flaming torch she is holding. The significance of this is in pagan times there used to be sun-gods and moon-goddesses. With the sun-god being the dominant deity because the sun has the greater light. But in more ancient times there used to be sun-goddesses and moon-gods. So she would be a dominant Goddess taking us back to the Creatrix Great Mother.
End Para.


Or one could say the Moon has dominance, as it affects life cycles and Tidal flow.
A lot of people like to think God is Female, the creatrix 'Great Mother'.

Para 7
The Compass and Square image is probably the most popular symbol in Freemasonry. The fundamentalist Pastor Ron Carlson, who has spoken about Freemasonry in evangelical churches in many parts of America, claims that the square represents the earth, the compasses represent the sky, and the square and compasses when united, represent the sky impregnating the earth with its showers. He goes on to state that this is a symbol of sexual intercourse. The official Freemason line is they are just tools of the Masonry Trade.

End Para.

I wonder what Freud would make of that...............
I think Pastor Ron shouldn't be left alone with anyone under 25 or Female....

Para 12.
A example of this is another important Mason symbol of the Trowel which off coarse is another triangle shape. Back in the Stone-Age archaeologists and palaeontologists have discovered many V and triangle shaped symbols and it seems they represent the triangle of a women's pubic hairs. While the diamond shape is similar to a open woman's vagina. We can find examples of this is images of the Sheela-Na-Gig.
End Para.

I'm starting to worry about Billy Bond now........

Para 13. (Don't forget we Masons 'LOVE' 13.......)
The image called Sheela-Na-Gig, and is found, believe it or not, on ancient Christian Churches in Britain and Ireland. It is claimed by Christian Priests that this image was used to frighten away demons. Which might make sense to a Christian minded person who believe sex and everything to do with it, is "dirty" and evil. Yet to the ancients this was once a holy and sacred image. Many of these images are found on Churches dedicated to St Bridget. Who was once the pagan Goddess Brigit.
End Para.

Those things frightem me sometimes...but I'm very brave so have always gone into battle, fought hard and won.....

The 'dirty and evil' aspect of sex arrived with the Victorians.

Anyway...........

Billy then goes on into some kind of sexually induced masturbatory blah blah before remembering he was actually meant to be writing about Freemasons, then gets turned on again thinking about women, then says Mary Magdelen was a Prossie, Then Jesus had a ruck with Peter.

Oh! Now he comes back to Freemasons again.

Now he's back to sex, but this time a bit of BDSM.......

Here's a real gem;
It seems that with the ending of the last Ice-Age the great Glaciers that covered most of Northern Europe, Asia and North America began to melt.

Actually they did melt. They are no longer there. They melted.


More sex........

Oh look its the old 'Dollar Bill designed by Freemasons' urban myth.

Now he's back on his women and menstruation kink.

Then there is some stuff about Penis worship........Perhaps he's bisexual...Oh well at least thats balanced.......


Oh I can't go on anylonger I'm laughing too much.

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by ban freekmasons

http://www.womanthouartgod.com/wmbondfreemasonry.php

1. Statue of Liberty (lady Liberty/Ishtar), the greatest idol in the history of the world.
And of course she is Masonic.


2. The boys club (Masonic Lodge) is referred to as a she, she is the other greatest idol in the history of the world.


But women cant be masons.
Perhaps Ishtar might get jealous.

[element]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

But women cant be masons.
Perhaps Ishtar might get jealous.

Maybe because women don't need to look for knowledge. They already are knowledge. They are godesses, they don't have to wear some regalia and go to a 'secret club'...

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by eastbeast

More sex........

Oh look its the old 'Dollar Bill designed by Freemasons' urban myth.

Now he's back on his women and menstruation kink.

Then there is some stuff about Penis worship........Perhaps he's bisexual...Oh well at least thats balanced.......


Oh I can't go on anylonger I'm laughing too much.

The Compasses are the male principle and the Square the female principle !!

Are you denying this ?

Are you going to make me find the quotes from masons ?

[eastbeast]

Originally Posted by element

Maybe because women don't need to look for knowledge. They already are knowledge. They are godesses, they don't have to wear some regalia and go to a 'secret club'...

No sane Man will disagree.......

Originally Posted by thelucifer

The Compasses are the male principle and the Square the female principle !!

Are you denying this ?

Are you going to make me find the quotes from masons ?

Not at all.

Happy holidays to you.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

1. Statue of Liberty (lady Liberty/Ishtar), the greatest idol in the history of the world.
And of course she is Masonic.

You've clearly never seen the Golden Buddha on Lantau island, far more impressive.

I'm sure you've got an answer for this but how exactly is the Statue of Liberty Masonic?

Originally Posted by thelucifer

2. The boys club (Masonic Lodge) is referred to as a she, she is the other greatest idol in the history of the world.

Being an American I can understand how you may not understand proper English but we call many inanimate objects she, much the same as our French cousins. It doesn't have anything to do with godesses.

Originally Posted by thelucifer

But women cant be masons.
Perhaps Ishtar might get jealous.

Correct! That is of course with the exception of the thousands who are already Masons obviously.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

The Compasses are the male principle and the Square the female principle !!

Are you denying this ?

YES

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Are you going to make me find the quotes from masons ?

Yes please.

Mike

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by mike martin

YES


Yes please.

Mike

Mike, before wasting more time I ask youa couple questions.

Do you deny the Compasses represent (amongst other things) the male ?

Do you deny the Square represents (amongst other things) the female ?

[lightindarkness]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Mike, before wasting more time I ask youa couple questions.

Do you deny the Compasses represent (amongst other things) the male ?

Do you deny the Square represents (amongst other things) the female ?

Anyone can believe anything represents anything. Thats why symbolism is so subjective.

Within freemasonry, there is never any indication or teaching that the square/compass represents ANYTHING similar to the whole male/female thing. Look hard enough and you may find a mason who believes otherwise, but he doesn't believe that based off anything freemasonry teaches.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Mike, before wasting more time I ask youa couple questions.

Do you deny the Compasses represent (amongst other things) the male ?

Do you deny the Square represents (amongst other things) the female ?

Ho ho, where does the "amongst other things" come from? Bottled out already.

Nowhere in Masonic Ritual does it state that the Square and Compasses represent male and female either gender or energies.

Let's have your quotes please. Cos I can guarantee you that I will find you more that say different things.

So the answer to your original un-amended question is no they do not. Not in Freemasonry

Mike

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by mike martin

Ho ho, where does the "amongst other things" come from? Bottled out already.

Nowhere in Masonic Ritual does it state that the Square and Compasses represent male and female either gender or energies.

Let's have your quotes please. Cos I can guarantee you that I will find you more that say different things.

So the answer to your original un-amended question is no they do not. Not in Freemasonry

Mike

Ah yes, the stupid Masonic Rituals game.

Amongst other things = different things !!
Your so clever Mike.

"Find more that say different things" !
No shit Sherlock, so can I and Im not even a mason.


There are many masonic authors that have wrote on the subject, Albert Pike, Henry Clausen etc etc etc.
Many of which whos books I have and have read.

I am short on time tonight, I remember going over this with your brother Perry Mason and he had no problem admitting the male female symbolism and said something like, yea there is odd stuff like that.


As for Statue of Liberty, designed by a mason, built by masons etc, I know Mike, she is not found in your stupid masonic rituals.



edit - http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...703#post316703

post #27 I agree, there are some interesting symbolic interpretations of the square and compass

[zero1]

...it's all about that, ultimately, in esoterica.

[mike martin]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Ah yes, the stupid Masonic Rituals game.

Call the Ritual stupid if you must but unless you can tie these things into the Ritual you're fooked.

If you want I can explain to you how the actual meaning has been further interpreted by individuals to mean quite a few different things. None of which are meanings but rather points to ponder and reflect upon.

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Amongst other things = different things !!
Your so clever Mike.

In other words it does not represent male and female! Thank you for answering your own question so quickly.

Originally Posted by thelucifer

There are many masonic authors that have wrote on the subject, Albert Pike, Henry Clausen etc etc etc.
Many of which whos books I have and have read.

That's two authors out of hundreds having written thousands of books. If your investigative interest weren't so narrow you would be able to see how that is hardly a safe place for you to base your "claims". You seem to assume that their interpretation goes any further than them.

As nearly every Mason knows no one Mason has the "authority" to speak for Freemasonry

Originally Posted by thelucifer

I am short on time tonight, I remember going over this with your brother Perry Mason and he had no problem admitting the male female symbolism and said something like, yea there is odd stuff like that.

Important words being "odd stuff like that"!

Originally Posted by thelucifer

As for Statue of Liberty, designed by a mason, built by masons etc, I know Mike, she is not found in your stupid masonic rituals.

Designed by a Mason and part of it constructed by a Mason yes I know that! What I asked you is how is it Masonic?

By your logic this would mean that all Ford cars are Masonic and all Gillette razor blades are Masonic! Is that what you believe?

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by mike martin

Call the Ritual stupid if you must but unless you can tie these things into the Ritual you're fooked.

If you want I can explain to you how the actual meaning has been further interpreted by individuals to mean quite a few different things. None of which are meanings but rather points to ponder and reflect upon.


In other words it does not represent male and female! Thank you for answering your own question so quickly.


That's two authors out of hundreds having written thousands of books. If your investigative interest weren't so narrow you would be able to see how that is hardly a safe place for you to base your "claims". You seem to assume that their interpretation goes any further than them.

As nearly every Mason knows no one Mason has the "authority" to speak for Freemasonry



Important words being "odd stuff like that"!


Designed by a Mason and part of it constructed by a Mason yes I know that! What I asked you is how is it Masonic?

By your logic this would mean that all Ford cars are Masonic and all Gillette razor blades are Masonic! Is that what you believe?

Designed by a mason, built by masons (are all the workers for Ford and Gillette masons ? I think not) and presented by masons, and she had a masonic ritual cornerstone laying.
She is masonic.
Just as all the important buildings in the DC layout.


As for the Compasses and Square, symbols, as you well know, have more than one meaning, in fact many meanings, of which male and female are certainly two.

Funny, I have read via masonic authors that there is no right or wrong interpretations for the symbols, but of course except for non masons, right Mike ?, even though referencing masonic authors.

I guess I must have made the whole male female thing up from wild imaginations, right Mike ?

I find it all quite stupid really.


Mike, here are just a couple sites I have read through, feel free to post some others for me if you want, I will read through them.

http://www.masonicworld.com/educatio.../compasses.htm
http://www.masonicworld.com/educatio...t02/square.htm
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/education.htm

[keystone]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Funny, I have read via masonic authors that there is no right or wrong interpretations for the symbols, but of course except for non masons.

I know you didn't ask me but that is essentially correct. Symbols mean things to the individual viewing them. There is nothing wrong in a non-mason thinking that masonic symbol "A" means "X". There is nothing wrong in a mason saying that to a mason it actually means "Y".

What is wrong is the non-mason telling the mason that he's wrong in his interpretation of the meaning of the symbol and telling him what it means to him and all other freemasons and that it's "evidence" of masonic perfidy.

Am I making sense?

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by keystone

I know you didn't ask me but that is essentially correct. Symbols mean things to the individual viewing them. There is nothing wrong in a non-mason thinking that masonic symbol "A" means "X". There is nothing wrong in a mason saying that to a mason it actually means "Y".

What is wrong is the non-mason telling the mason that he's wrong in his interpretation of the meaning of the symbol and telling him what it means to him and all other freemasons and that it's "evidence" of masonic perfidy.

Am I making sense?

Did I do that ?

I was told I am wrong when I am simply repeating what I have read via many masonic authors.


Not sure I understand what your saying with "perfidy" (state of being faithless or disloyal : treachery) !

I didnt have anything like that in mind, just a simple statement of male female in regards to the two symbols, which I dont have a problem with.

[keystone]

Originally Posted by thelucifer

Did I do that ?

No you didn't.

I was told I am wrong when I am simply repeating what I have read via many masonic authors.

Well I don't agree with the interpretation either but that doesn't make you wrong per se. It makes you have a different interpretation to me. Trouble is there is far to much "angst" on this forum just at the moment.

Not sure I understand what your saying with "perfidy" (state of being faithless or disloyal : treachery) !

Sorry I must have slipped into "replying to Bany and Joe" mode.

I didnt have anything like that in mind, just a simple statement of male female in regards to the two symbols, which I dont have a problem with.

Nor I. I just don't accept it as being relevant to masonry.

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by keystone

Well I don't agree with the interpretation either but that doesn't make you wrong per se. It makes you have a different interpretation to me.


Nor I. I just don't accept it as being relevant to masonry.

Actually I dont really have an interpretation, like I said, I was just repeating what I have read via masonic authors, so perhaps its better said that you and them dont agree.


From all that I have read via various authors its seems quite relevant really.

If I had read it from just one author about those two symbols only (i.e. the point within the circle and male female etc etc) I could easily disregard it.

No big deal.

[keystone]

Ok.