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Old 06-06-2008, 08:05 AM   #1
mike martin
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Default Masonic Racism

I've decided to start making new topics of the questions of substance to make it easier to refer back to them. So

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Originally Posted by thelucifer View Post
Mike

Can you come up with quotes in regards to UK Masonry being disgusted and disapproving of the racism problem in USA Masonry ?

Im interested in quotes from the 1700's 1800's and early 1900's.

I am going to start looking into UK Masonry in regards of racism or lack thereof.
No not really. That's not the way Freemasonry works, it doesn't go around condemning things, especially the political structures and decisions of other countries..

As the 3 British Grand Lodges lost their influence and withdrew from American Freemasonry after the War of Independence. American Freemasonry has not answered to Britain for over 200 years. We have just as much influence there as we have in France, that being none.

However, it may be of interest to you to understand that the whole Prince Hall system started because of the Grand Lodge of Ireland and was legitimised by the Grand Lodge of England.

Prince Hall along with 14 other black men was Initiated into Lodge No. 441, Irish Constitution, attached to the 38th Regiment of Foot, British Army on March 6, 1775. When the British Army left the following year, these guys were left unable to run a proper Lodge as they had no Warrant, after a couple of years they applied to the Grand Lodge of England who issued them one and African Lodge No. 459 was born. This Lodge along with all the others in America was erased from our rolls after the WoI.

Mike
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:58 AM   #2
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all of the freekmasons aka mike martin are overloading this brilliant forum with irrelevant posts as you can see above. www.joestirling.com
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:57 AM   #3
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I don't understand why this thread is called "Masonic RACISM"....



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Old 06-06-2008, 11:11 AM   #4
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I don't understand why this thread is called "Masonic RACISM ....
Reading the first post will assist you.

Mike
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:48 PM   #5
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Reading the first post will assist you.

Mike
A little vague, but what you're saying is that it was ONLY because they were black?

A little off-topic. Tell me...is Ron Paul a Freemason?







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Old 06-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #6
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[COLOR="Navy"][SIZE="4"][FONT="Century Gothic"]

A little vague, but what you're saying is that it was ONLY because they were black?
The United States has a long and unfortunate history of racism. The first Prince Hall Masons were not recognized by their white counterparts because they were black.

However, even an Albert Pike, who had at one time refused to recognize any blacks as Masons, admitted that Prince Hall Masonry was just as regular and legitimate as white Masonry.

The entire argumaent over Prince Hall and race is no longer legitimate. Prince Hall Lodges now admit white members, and the traditionally white Lodges now admit black members.

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A little off-topic. Tell me...is Ron Paul a Freemason?
Probably not. A couple of years ago, the Scottish Rite Journal published a list of all US Congressmen who were Masons, and I don't remember Paul being on it.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:54 PM   #7
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I see. Thank you.


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Old 06-06-2008, 10:13 PM   #8
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The United States has a long and unfortunate history of racism. The first Prince Hall Masons were not recognized by their white counterparts because they were black.
None were recognized until 1989.
Those who thaught too before that were chastized and reversed such attempts.
Masons say "thats not the way of Freemasonry" to tell/force other Lodges etc to do this or that, which I clearly showed to be utter nonsense.

Its not that I want to find bad.
If someone punches me (or anyone) in the face and then says its a nice day, I'm not gona give a shit about how nice the day might be, I'm gona be focused on the punch/evil act.

The problem is still ongoing as shown in the maps (as of 2006) I posted.
This most clearly shows a very ugly heart of American Masonry, at least.



Quote:
However, even an Albert Pike, who had at one time refused to recognize any blacks as Masons, admitted that Prince Hall Masonry was just as regular and legitimate as white Masonry.

I'm not convinced "regular" = should be "recognized", I will look into this though.

Quote:
The entire argumaent over Prince Hall and race is no longer legitimate. Prince Hall Lodges now admit white members, and the traditionally white Lodges now admit black members.
I find this statement disturbing in light of the maps (as of 2 years ago, 2006) I posted which absolutely show/prove the problem is far from over.
The states that were still rejecting as 2006 is where most blacks live !!!

How on earth can this be over looked ?

How can this not show a bad heart of Masonry (in America at least) ?

The over looking of this FACT is very telling in a bad way.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:06 PM   #9
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I find this statement disturbing in light of the maps (as of 2 years ago, 2006) I posted which absolutely show/prove the problem is far from over.
The states that were still rejecting as 2006 is where most blacks live !!!
That's true, but I think you're confusing "Prince Hall" with "blacks". It is now no longer the case that Prince Hall Masonry is all-black and mainstream Masonry is all-white.

So even in those states where Prince Hall Lodges are not recognized, black men can still be initiated in mainstream Lodges. In like manner, white men can be initiated in Prince Hall.

Take for example the Grand Lodge of North Carolina which, as of today, does not recognize Prince Hall. Nevertheless, they have black members, and even black Grand Lodge members, so we really can't say it's a matter of race.
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Old 09-06-2008, 10:45 PM   #10
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That's true, but I think you're confusing "Prince Hall" with "blacks". It is now no longer the case that Prince Hall Masonry is all-black and mainstream Masonry is all-white.

So even in those states where Prince Hall Lodges are not recognized, black men can still be initiated in mainstream Lodges. In like manner, white men can be initiated in Prince Hall.

Take for example the Grand Lodge of North Carolina which, as of today, does not recognize Prince Hall. Nevertheless, they have black members, and even black Grand Lodge members, so we really can't say it's a matter of race.
Below are quotes from a couple Masonic sites that quite clearly speak of a problem fro the mouths of Masons.

So much for following government laws !

I marvel at the crap Masons say about obeying the law etc, in light of breaking laws discriminating against blacks for so long.

Notice when a couple lodges wanted to recognize blacks many lodges put pressure against them untill they reversed their attempt to recognize BUT when a Mason gets expelled for trying to make things better NO OTHER lodge tries to help him !!!!!!!





http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot...eption-by.html


a society of morality
a fraternity that is supposed to be about universal brotherhood


Chris,the situation is Texas is that not only is there no visitation but no Masonic discourse allowed and that is coming from the GL of Texas not PHA because I have talked to the GM personally about this and he assures me that PH is willing to take part in a cross visitation program. The two Grand Lodges can not do any charity afairs together, not do any social affairs together, cannot play sports together and cannot socialize on neutral grounds. If I meet a GL of Texas Mason in a grocery store I am not even supposed to say Good Morning to him. This compact was engineered by the same GL of Texas GM who barred The Philalethes Society from the state. This is not separate but equal, this is separate and make believe the other guy doesn't exist.

Racism is against the civil law. Masons are supposed to obey the civil law. Thumbing your nose at the law and then cloaking it in absolute sovereignty is criminal. Institutions & Socities who refuse to police themselves open themselves up to state intervention. Do we really want civil authorities interfering in Masonic matters and adjudicating private Masonic problems? We will get it if we do not find a mechinism to police ourselves. Is WV not a good example of that?

March 11, 2008





http://beehive135.blogspot.com/

The Masonic Blog "From Darkness To Light" reports that expelled Grand
Master Frank Haas of West Virginia is suing in civil court The Grand
Master of West Virginia and others. This is a sad day in Mainstream
Masonry.

It is a sad day because none of the other Mainstream Grand Lodges in
the USA came to the aid of Frank Haas. They persisted in that
unwritten code of never saying ill about another Grand Lodge no matter
what it does. So wrong gets to be right because a blind eye is turned.



The
proposed changes and reforms were not only morally right but were
consistent with and designed
to bring Masonic laws and attitudes into conformity with the
substantial public policy of the State
of West Virginia and the United States of America.



20. Plaintiff Haas' progressive proposals to eliminate various Masonic
practices that are
discriminatory and against the substantial public policy of this State
were voted on and approved by
Defendant Grand Lodge during the 2006 Annual Meeting. Unfortunately,
Plaintiff Haas ' laudatory
efforts were met with resistance by a few Masons determined to
undermine any proposed reforms
regardless ofhow outdated, discriminatory or offensive the policies
were to individual constitutional
rights and the substantial public policy of this State.

These
reforms and proposals were intended to rid Masonry in West Virginia of
the Orwellian, repressive,
regressive and unconstitutional practices that were and are clearly
unconstitutional and against the
substantial public policy of this State.



The proposed reforms and changes were designed to:
a. Encourage all Masons to do what is morally and legally right and
wipe away
lingering racism that is tolerated and enforced by telling the Masters
of all
local lodges that they must maintain the peace and harmony of their
lodges;
b. Eliminate discriminatory practices against the handicapped;







TheLonious you didnt respond to my asking about you calling your DC brothers "exaggerators"/LIARS.
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Old 09-06-2008, 11:58 PM   #11
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The sad truth is that Freemasonry is and always has been a reflection of the Society in which it exists.

There has been racism in countries where racism holds sway.

However, Freemasonry does evolve that is why today Masonic racism only exists in a few places where it is still rife. However for us in the home of Freemasonry (Britain) we are lucky not to have had the racism element, that is of course due to the fact that Freemasonry spread around the British Empire and accepted men from the countries therein, so race and colour wasn't an issue.

I do feel sorry for that small group of American racists who can't see how they warp Masonic principles with their bigotry but I know they will fade and things will be OK.

Mike
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike martin View Post
The sad truth is that Freemasonry is and always has been a reflection of the Society in which it exists.

There has been racism in countries where racism holds sway.

However, Freemasonry does evolve that is why today Masonic racism only exists in a few places where it is still rife. However for us in the home of Freemasonry (Britain) we are lucky not to have had the racism element, that is of course due to the fact that Freemasonry spread around the British Empire and accepted men from the countries therein, so race and colour wasn't an issue.

I do feel sorry for that small group of American racists who can't see how they warp Masonic principles with their bigotry but I know they will fade and things will be OK.

Mike

Mike, so far a clean bill of health in that way on your side of the big pond.

Heres my problem over here.

Masonry dares consider itself the inlightened ones when the truth is exactly the opposite.
The profane and vulgar public are far more inlightened and are forcing the racist boys club to change while kicking and screaming.

Hipocrisy is those claiming to be of high moral character are actually amongst the lowest/worst moral character.

Last edited by thelucifer; 10-06-2008 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:49 AM   #13
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Masonry dares consider itself the inlightened ones when the truth is exactly the opposite.
The profane and vulgar public are far more inlightened and are forcing the racist boys club to change while kicking and screaming.
I feel I have to say that Masons really don't call non-Masons vulgar or profane, we do just actually call you non-Masons. These terms are really only used in books written by "mystical" types trying to big-up their opinions.

As I said above the problem is that if in these areas enough non-Masons weren't racist the issue wouldn't exist. It is a fallacy to say that non-Masons are making a difference as only Masons can make a difference and these Lodges get their members from where they are. As much as we'd like to believe that racism is a thing of the past, the honest truth is that in America there are places where it is still very much the norm.

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Hipocrisy is those claiming to be of high moral character are actually amongst the lowest/worst moral character.
Yes and no. I'm not defending them but there is another perspective they could be of high morals in everything else except race, have you ever seen the film "Crash" with Matt Dillon I think of it that way.

Mike
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:15 AM   #14
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As I said above the problem is that if in these areas enough non-Masons weren't racist the issue wouldn't exist.
Freemasonry is supposed to be about "brotherhood" and "making good men better" !

Why didnt Freemasonry take sides with the few (non racist) instead of the many ?
Especially 20 and more years ago !


America was set up by racists Masons and Masonry has been "leading" the way here since.





http://burningtaper.blogspot.com/200...rise-that.html

God knows I've heard enough "nigger" jokes in lodge to last a lifetime.
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:54 AM   #15
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http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...d=1#post382095
Bill O'Reiley - The Collapse

This video is great, extremely funny.

Point of interest here is,

It ends with George Carlin’s comedy bit about this country’s founders being slave owners and saying “all men are created equal “with Carlin saying “except Indians and niggers and women” and then honest politicians and that if honesty were introduced the whole American system would collapse.

Who is it that has worked in the lack of open honesty ?
Oh yah, Freemasonry, as shown via Washington DC.
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #16
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Lucifer, you are under the false impression that historic Freemasons were all racists. They were not.

Take, for example, Benjamin Franklin, who served as Grand Master of Masons in Pennsylvania. He was one of the nation's earliest abolitionists. Both John Brown and John Brown, Jr. were also Masons.
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:47 PM   #17
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Lucifer, you are under the false impression that historic Freemasons were all racists. They were not.

Take, for example, Benjamin Franklin, who served as Grand Master of Masons in Pennsylvania. He was one of the nation's earliest abolitionists. Both John Brown and John Brown, Jr. were also Masons.
Hmmm...not being racist while being part of an institute that practices institutional racism !

That is amongst the worst of useful idiots !

Through the 18th and 19th centuries and more than half of the 20th American Freemasonry was no better that a group like the KKK, who thought Masons as best to recruit.
There is a double whamy there, and looking just a little deeper one see's it doubled yet again.

Racism whether personal or institutional is evil.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:11 PM   #18
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Hmmm...not being racist while being part of an institute that practices institutional racism !
Nope.

Freemasonry from institutional perspective stands now, and has always stood for, universal brotherhood. If some Masons have had racist views, these views were in fact *opposed* to Freemasonry.
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Old 12-06-2008, 12:26 AM   #19
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Nope.

Freemasonry from institutional perspective stands now, and has always stood for, universal brotherhood. If some Masons have had racist views, these views were in fact *opposed* to Freemasonry.
Tell that whole brotherly love crap to PGM Haas !
How many examples of this kind of crap do I need come up with ?

The KKK was about brotherhod also, even the same brotherhood, NO BLACKS.

The very fact the KKK would think Freemasons best for recruiting SPEAKS VOLUMES about Freemasonry on both the personal and institutional levels.






http://burningtaper.blogspot.com/200...orwellian.html

Monday, June 09, 2008
Dirty laundry: Freemasonry's 'Orwellian, repressive, regressive and unconstitutional practices'



Freemasonry's dirty laundry is officially hung out on the Clothesline of the World, right up there with McClellan's book, Clinton's failed presidential bid, and Lindsay Lohan's missing underwear.



Tom Accuosti wrote:
The comments on the Gazette story itself are interesting.

Suing the GL is a pretty extreme step; makes you think about the loyalty to the organization that some people have that they would bring a court case, rather than walk away.
Monday, June 09, 2008 1:19:00 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Widow's Son wrote:
Isn't there an old phrase, "Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures"?

In my opinion, W. Bros. Montgomery and Coleman created some pretty extreme circumstances for W. Bro. Haas, and, since they didn't give him any opportunity for review or appeal within the Craft, he's well within his rights in pursuing reparations via the court system. The damages inflicted upon him go far beyond the internal workings of the Fraternity, and he owes no "loyalty" to those who created this situation.

— W.S.
Monday, June 09, 2008 1:36:00 PM




2 BOWL CAIN wrote:
What I do not get is this:
PGM Haas is a Judge!? To be a Judge, I believe one must practice Law?!

Why would anyone want to mess with an individual who KNOWS Laws?

I am sure PGM Haas dotted all his I's and crossed all his T's to get his legislation passed. Understanding "working within to make changes", I am sure he KNEW exactly what he was doing, but the new grand master and the next apparently KNOW better than a judge!?


Letting th eprofane shine light on abuse of power is the only way to check an out of control individual/group......

I am glad to see the newspaper is looking into it as well. Tougher to manuever in the dark that way!
Monday, June 09, 2008 4:02:00 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Cooksey wrote:
"Let them eat cake"
The GL made their own bed. Walk away??? That has been to problem many Masons have been stabbed in the back by their precious GL and those GL's think they can kick their members to the ground.

When the moon is in the seventh house and Juptier aligns with Mars........
Monday, June 09, 2008 5:53:00 PM
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:46 PM   #20
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Tell that whole brotherly love crap to PGM Haas !
I am a strong supporter of Most Worshipful Brother Haas, and have been since the whole mess started.
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