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Old 07-09-2012, 03:39 PM   #221
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Great work Anders!


Thanks Sandra! Coming from a seasoned expert like you, that has made my day! Obviously I am the same anders that sometimes posts to your blog/s. I think you should do one on this, the story like Edeilweiss Pirate says is potentially huge, like the Kelly one.


I might do a blog on this one, the first thing I thought of was Jack Drummond and his family, on aug 4/5 1952, Jack his wife and daughter were murdered at near enough the same place.


Now isn't THAT a coincidence??!!??


There has been speculation this years that it was a professional hit. Drummond was a scientist and for years he had been voicing concerns about how dangerous pesticides were.

He was a much respected and decorated scientist, at the time of his death he was "Apparently" working for Boots, and was researching cures for tropical diseases, whatever he was working on, Boots scrapped the project after his murder.

I read the book "the Vitamin Murders" about the killing years ago, a French peasant was set up for the murders. Drummond invented the word vitamin, it was he who first really documented the various nutritional benefits of various foods, and for years he was scathing in condemning pesticides as dangerous to human health, and destroying the nutrition of the food.


Fascinating, I must check into all that myself. Of course as we all know, Big Pharma would not hesitate to take out anyone who would dent their profits, they are trying to ban vitamins everywhere now via the FDA and Codex whateveritis Alimentarius!
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by sheepy View Post
Some great analysis here! I also wonderd if the youngest of the two children was hidden possibly under her mother/grandmother's skirt/dress so that she would have a chance of going unnoticed and being spared. I think that telling the oldest child to make a dash for it is also highly plausible.

But why didn't they gun the 7-year-old down as well but 'beat' her instead? Maybe the assassin(s) had run out of ammuniation as another poster mentioned earlier? Or maybe they didn't intend to kill her - just leave her 'brain-damaged' enough so that she doesn't talk.
It seems likely that there were two cars, so two to four attackers, possible two as drivers, two as shooters - at any rate, a small child like that could have its neck broken in seconds by an adult. Perhaps they meant to kill her with blows to the head, but failed, and of course they were desperate to get away at high speed as quick as possible. So anyway, mission accomplished regarding the target, but two witnesses left...

Having said that, the best poster at another forum just said this:

"We all got all wrong, the key to the mystery is the French cyclist, Sylvain Mollier, (5 bullets) he worked for Cyzus, partners with Areva (Nuclear Fuel)"

Now if that is true, it really get Machiavellian. It would mean such pre-planning would be needed as to boggle the mind. To know Sylvain would be cycling up that hill that day, and to have the Beemer stop in that small lay-by/car park for a pre-arranged rendezvous, and all of them whacked at the same time as Sylvain reached the car?

I agree that 5 bullets though seems somewhat excessive. Did Sylvain also have two to the forehead???

???
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:47 PM   #223
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Was told about this yesterday, I haven't read any papers or watched the news as its pointless.thought I would see what u guys made of it but my initial feeling was MOSSAD, awful my thoughts go out to the child. I wonder whose "care " she is in now
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by crowcrow View Post
Or Sheepy, maybe they wanted to upset her and harm her, but leave her to be able to talk. They may well have been 'disguised' - attempting to look like a different nationality/group to muddy the waters of the investigation, but to leave no doubt that it was an assassination.

It's not unknown for groups to leave one person to recount the tale, in fact it's common amongst the murders in Mexico/Columbia. Is there a president for groups such as Mossad, the Iranian secret service etc?

Interesting comments from Craig Murray: http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archiv...ngs-in-france/

They may well have been 'disguised' - attempting to look like a different nationality/group to muddy the waters of the investigation, but to leave no doubt that it was an assassination.

An excellent point.

And as someone else pointed out, it's an aeons old technique. Commit such savagery and brutality, but leave one person alive to tell others what happened. This spreads of course incalculable fear.

Quentin Tarantino uses this to good effect in the scalping and baseball bat scenes in Inglourious Basterds. And of course Mexico/Columbia etc.

As for Craig Murray I am a regular reader and occasional poster, but I don't fully trust him, not totally, there is something that nags at me about him, so I'll leave it at that.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:07 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anders7777 View Post
They may well have been 'disguised' - attempting to look like a different nationality/group to muddy the waters of the investigation, but to leave no doubt that it was an assassination.

An excellent point.

And as someone else pointed out, it's an aeons old technique. Commit such savagery and brutality, but leave one person alive to tell others what happened. This spreads of course incalculable fear.

Quentin Tarantino uses this to good effect in the scalping and baseball bat scenes in Inglourious Basterds. And of course Mexico/Columbia etc.

As for Craig Murray I am a regular reader and occasional poster, but I don't fully trust him, not totally, there is something that nags at me about him, so I'll leave it at that.
Here's two mossad agents, on their way to assassinate the arab guy in front of them in Dubai. False moustaches, tennis rackets the lot.




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Old 07-09-2012, 04:15 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by yass View Post
The car looks like it's backed up off the parking lot





Maybe the British cyclist located a big rock to break the window and then threw it on the ground there near the
car.

I mean, it's not like we couldn't be that resourceful if we were put to it and there was like an emergency?

Of course we could.


Very well spotted, please see my other comments. It looks like a likely candidate, but as i said, I would expect to see a very heavy lump like that not on the deceased drivers lap, but possible not quite so far away. Maybe I'm being picky, I don't know - I do know though that windows in modern expenso cars like that are VERY hard to break. This is the Ti knife I sometimes carry when it is legal (not sure what the law is in France but this is illegal in the UK), and it has a WINDOW BREAKER: a heat-treated 440 stainless steel point. You can get away with one camping etc.


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Old 07-09-2012, 04:18 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noxverulam View Post
I would have thought that pistol whipping the girl was too random to use for the purpose of leaving her unable to talk, she could still write, Josie Lawrence anyone?
If intimidation was needed why not just shoot her in the hands or feet or wherever non-lethal?
Yes, I sense a degree of panic with the shooters.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:25 PM   #228
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From another forum:

Technology swap?
or
Wrong place at the wrong time...

don't fcuk with the french, brits or mossad
:/
Quoting: BuggedOut


They all had a meeting...in the remote woods..

The Iraqi's (Drones, aerial technology) (AMS 1087)
The French, Nuclear fuel, Zirconium (Cyzus)
The Brit, (Royal Air Force)

Now, why they met, is another question...


Why? How about this:

[link to www.liveleak.com]

Sounds like Zircaloy has a long history of failure. Who could be making the fuel rods for Iran?



the french authority are not saying anything new, the third swedish woman is the key to this mystery. The little girl has said she has seen the swedish woman before but did not know her very well. Too many questions, if the older girl survives we might get more answers.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:27 PM   #229
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Police saying 25 cartridges have been found now.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowcrow View Post
Daily Mail:

So two things;

1. sounds like more than just the 'white car' fleeing the scene/more potential witnesses.

2. the french cyclist was not working (on paternity leave), so would have been out cycling for pleasure (cycling is huge in france), so not unlikely that he'd be able to beat a holiday tourer up hill. It seems that the british cyclist was very close behind, I wonder how quick the whole affair was over?
I read that Sylvain was a keen cyclist (bit like that british spook found in a north face bag in the bath?) and that his father had recommended the route as it has a challenging hill - if so, then yes he would probably zoom by RAFman, depending on ages etc. Sylvain was 40, RAFman was retired?
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:29 PM   #231
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Police saying 25 cartridges have been found now.
That's ten more than yesterday so likely two guns then.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:31 PM   #232
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Police saying 25 cartridges have been found now.
So plenty of bullets for the girl, even Glocks can hold between 30-40'ish bullets with two guns and two mags.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:33 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anders7777 View Post
They may well have been 'disguised' - attempting to look like a different nationality/group to muddy the waters of the investigation, but to leave no doubt that it was an assassination.

An excellent point.

And as someone else pointed out, it's an aeons old technique. Commit such savagery and brutality, but leave one person alive to tell others what happened. This spreads of course incalculable fear.

Quentin Tarantino uses this to good effect in the scalping and baseball bat scenes in Inglourious Basterds. And of course Mexico/Columbia etc.

As for Craig Murray I am a regular reader and occasional poster, but I don't fully trust him, not totally, there is something that nags at me about him, so I'll leave it at that.
What if (of course, this is a big IF) the French cyclist and Saad Al-Hilli knew each other or both, at least, had been given instructions to meet at that exact spot perhaps to exchange information? What if the British cyclist was also aware of their rendez-vue? What if the role of the British cyclist was to let HQ know that the French man was on his way to meet Saad Al-Hilli or collect the information which was supposed to change hands? Didn't the media mention that the French cyclist had over-taken the British one at some point? Was this on purpose?

Now, I know that may sound very far-fetched to some but it certainly seems more plausible to me at least than the official crap were being spoon fed on the tell-lie-vision!
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:34 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by yass View Post
I can't make up my mind about the British cyclist, whether I think he was there as a plant or just happened to be there. There is a cycling event going on this week in Annecy, I ran into a story about it.

I remember Dr. Sue Arrigo saying she and others who worked for the CIA had to be some place and were flown over ahead of a bombing that took place at an African embassy, I think it was, and news clips showed her and her team in the background giving aid to the injured. At least according to her accounts.
I read Sylvain's father recommended the route to his son, cannot recall where I read that, or if it is part of the fairy story. If RAFman was a spook, he would have been armed, and possible returned fire, thus leaving the girl still alive. A possibility I guess.
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #235
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What if (of course, this is a big IF) the French cyclist and Saad Al-Hilli knew each other or both, at least, had been given instructions to meet at that exact spot perhaps to exchange information?


Yes, that clever bloke on the other forum is alluding to that, and I agreed it was a possibility.


What if the British cyclist was also aware of their rendez-vue? What if the role of the British cyclist was to let HQ know that the French man was on his way to meet Saad Al-Hilli or collect the information which was supposed to change hands?


Yes.


Didn't the media mention that the French cyclist had over-taken the British one at some point? Was this on purpose?


Yes he overtook RAFman. Going uphill.


Now, I know that may sound very far-fetched to some but it certainly seems more plausible to me at least than the official crap were being spoon fed on the tell-lie-vision!


Exactimundo!
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #236
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On Linked In there is one Saad al Hilli from Kingston on Thames listed and he is an Aviation and Aerospace Consultant...

May be of interest. may not be him?!?
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #237
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A good sleuth in Canada;

General Yossi Ben Hanan (chief of defence at Paris Israeli embassy) has been flown from Paris to Chambery Airport according to Press TV. Chambrey is only a short drive from the site of the killing. He was 20 minutes on the tarmac before he left with three extra passengers. The helicopter flew on to Geneva
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22864183




Quelle surprise!?!?! So the Kidon team comprised three. Pretty much as I thought.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21335503


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Head of SIBAT, the Israeli Defense Ministry's developing countries defense assistance division. Is France a developing country? Not.






Yossi Ben Hanan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. (February 2011)
Yossi Ben Hanan
Born 1945
Jerusalem, Israel
Allegiance Israel
Years of service 1961—
Rank Aluf
Unit Armored Corps
Commands held 7th Brigade
Battles/wars Six-Day War, War of Attrition, Yom Kippur War
Awards Medal of Courage
Aluf (res.) Yossi Ben Hanan (Hebrew: יוסי בן-חנן‎) was born in Jerusalem, Israel, in 1945. His father, Michael Ben Hanan served as one of the top commanders, (Haganah) in Jerusalem.

During the Six Days War Ben Hanan was a young Israeli officer, a lieutenant, serving as the operations officer of the 7th Armored Brigade. He was featured on a famous cover of LIFE magazine after the war which showed him, as a young soldier, triumphantly clutching an AK-47 rifle while standing in the waters of the Suez Canal.[1]

In 1973, while on his honeymoon in Nepal, then lieutenant colonel Ben Hanan learned of the start of the Yom Kippur War. Over the course of a few days, he returned to Israel and arrived on the Golan Heights on about October 8, 1973.[2] Ben Hanan participated in the fierce fightings with the Syrians in the holding defence of the Golan Heights along with then lieutenant colonel Avigdor Kahalani, and was wounded for the first time, but refused to be evacuated and continued fighting.[3]

On October 9, 1973, Ben Hanan took command of a scratch force of Israeli tanks that had been put together by Shmuel Askarov, one of the survivors of the decimated 188th Armored Brigade. Leading his command in a desperate battle against overwhelming numbers of Syrian T-62s, Ben Hanan restored the tactical situation but at the cost of most of his command and his own Centurion tank. Blown out of the turret when his tank was hit by a Sagger anti-tank missile, Ben Hanan lay wounded on the battlefield until he was rescued from behind enemy lines by Yonatan Netanyahu, a legendary member of the IDF's elite Sayeret Matkal and brother of future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.[4]

Ben Hanan received the second highest decoration, the Medal of Courage for his part in the fierce battles of the Yom Kippur War.[citation needed]

Yossi Ben Hanan subsequently served in the IDF.[clarification needed] He commanded the 7th Armored Brigade, the IDF R&D department, the Israeli National Security College, and the Armored Corps. As a reservist, he attained the rank of Major General (Aluf). He is currently the head of the Israeli Defense Ministry's developing countries defense assistance division, SIBAT.[5]

[edit]References

^ Blum,Howard (2003) "The Eve of Destruction: The Untold Story of the Yom Kippur War" Perennial p. 11
^ Boyne, Walter J. The Yom Kippur War: And the Airlift Strike That Saved Israel (2003) (ISBN 978-0312320423)
^ Blum, Howard (2003) "The Eve of Destruction: The Untold Story of the Yom Kippur War" Perennial pp.248,268-269
^ Chaim Herzog (1982) "The Arab-Israeli Wars" Vintage pp.296-297
^ Yossi Melman (19 August 2003), Enthusiasm to sell arms leads to dubious deals, Haaretz (Tel Aviv)
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:43 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by earthenigma View Post
On Linked In there is one Saad al Hilli from Kingston on Thames listed and he is an Aviation and Aerospace Consultant...

May be of interest. may not be him?!?
EVERYTHING'S of interest in this rabbit hole!
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #239
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Breaking news: Brother denies 'Conflict'

Surprise Surprise!
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:49 PM   #240
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It looks like they took a page from this book:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Right down to the convenient patsy.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11634244


Yes, perhaps you are reading the other forum we are posting on, Sandra Barr brought up this fact.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21335503


No, I haven't been to another forum. My own perception only. Remarkably similar: the alps, the family including children, the camping.


Jack Drummond
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jack Drummond
Born 12 January 1891
Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Died 4 August or 5 August 1952 (aged 61)
nr Lurs, France
Residence England
Nationality British
Fields Biochemistry
Nutrition
Institutions University College London
Alma mater Queen Mary, University of London
King's College London
Academic advisors Otto Rosenheim
Known for naming of vitamins
nutrition under wartime rationing
Notable awards Fellow of the Royal Society[1]
Notes
There is much speculation over the identity of his murderer or murderers, and the motive behind the crime.
Sir Jack Cecil Drummond FRIC, FRS[1] (12 Jan 1891—4 Aug or 5 Aug 1952) was a distinguished biochemist, noted for his work on nutrition as applied to the British diet under rationing during the Second World War. He was murdered, together with his wife and 10-year old daughter, on the night of 4 Aug – 5 Aug 1952 near Lurs, a village or commune in the Basses-Alpes region (now Alpes-de-Haute-Provence) of Southern France.[2][3][4][5][6]

Contents [hide]
1 Early life and family background
2 Scientific career
3 Murder
4 Awards and honours
5 See also
6 Notes
7 References
8 External links
[edit]Early life and family background

Jack Drummond was born in Leicester,[7][1][8] although some sources claim he was born in the largely working-class area of Kennington in South London.[9] He was the son of Colonel John Drummond of the Royal Horse Artillery and his wife (or lover) Gertrude Drummond. John died at age 55, only three months after Jack's birth. Jack was adopted and raised by John's sister Maria Spinks, who lived in nearby Charlton. Maria's husband, George, was a retired captain quartermaster, who had seen action in the Crimea. According to James Fergusson, life could not have been much fun for the solitary boy in the elderly couple's home.[10] He attended the John Roan School[11] in Greenwich and Strand School at King's College London in the Strand.[7][12]

Drummond's family origins remain unclear. No birth certificate exists for him in the Family Records Office. His father John, the major, describes himself as a bachelor in his will, which makes no mention of a son. In the 1891 census Jack's name was given as Cecil, his mother's as Gertrude Drummond, and her age as 29. It is not known what happened to Gertrude, or whether she was married to John. In the 1901 census, his name is recorded as Jack Cecil Spinks, taking his adoptive mother's surname. It is likely that as a boy Jack used the surname Spinks to avoid social embarrassment to his adoptive parents, but reverted to the surname Drummond sometime during his teens.[13]

On 17 July 1915 Drummond married Mable Helen Straw, who had also been an undergraduate at East London College. Their marriage lasted 24 years until in 1939 it broke up because of Drummond's affair with his secretary and co-author, Anne Wilbraham (born 10 Dec 1907). Jack and Anne married on 15 June 1940.[14] Their only child, Elizabeth, was born on 23 March 1942.

[edit]Scientific career

After graduating with First Class honours in chemistry in 1912 at East London College (now Queen Mary, University of London),[15] Jack Drummond became a research assistant in the department of physiology at King's College London, working under Otto Rosenheim and the professor W.D. Halliburton. In 1914 he moved to the Cancer Hospital Research Institute, where he worked with Casimir Funk, who had coined the word vitamine (from vital amine). This was when Drummond first became interested in nutrition. In 1917 Halliburton invited Drummond to join him in experimental work on substitutes for butter and margarine. As a result of this work, fat-soluble vitamins became one of his major fields of interest. It also led him to the study of practical problems of human nutrition, and in 1918 he published a paper in The Lancet on infant feeding.[16]

In 1919 he moved to University College London (UCL) to work on physiological chemistry, the precursor to modern biochemistry.[17] In 1920, he proposed that the "vital substances" discovered by Elmer Verner McCollum and by Casimir Funk should be called Vitamins A and B respectively, to contrast them with his proposed antiscurvy factor, Vitamin C. He also dropped the final "e" from Funk's designation, because not all vitamins contain an amine group. In 1922, at the early age of 31, he became the first[18] Professor of Biochemistry at UCL, and held that position until 1945 (in absentia from 1939). He was also Dean of the Faculty of Medical Sciences from 1929 to 1932.[19]

In the 1930s, he succeeded in isolating pure vitamin A.[18] Also in the 1930s, he became increasingly aware of the need to apply the new science of nutrition in practice. This awareness, combined with his interest in gastronomy, led him to study the English diet over the previous 500 years. He published the results of this study as the book—co-authored with his future second wife Anne Wilbraham—The Englishman’s Food: A History of Five Centuries of English Diet in 1939.

The Ministry of Food consulted him on the gas contamination of food at the outbreak of war, and on 16 October 1939 appointed him chief adviser on food contamination. Drummond interested himself in the various scientific aspects of the ministry's work, and urged the creation of a co-ordinating unit within the ministry with a scientific liaison officer in charge. On 1 February 1940 he was appointed Scientific Adviser to the Ministry of Food. When Lord Woolton became Minister of Food in April 1940, Drummond produced a plan for the distribution of food based on "sound nutritional principles". He recognised that rationing was the perfect opportunity to attack what he called "dietetic ignorance", and that, if successful, he would be able not just to maintain but to improve the nation's health. Thanks to Drummond's advice, the effect of rationing was to introduce more protein and vitamins to the diet of the poorest in society, while the better off were obliged to cut their consumption of meat, fats, sugar and eggs. Follow-up studies after the war showed that, despite rationing and the stresses of war, the population's health had improved.[20] Drummond was Fullerian Professor of Physiology and Comparative Anatomy at the Royal Institution from 1941 to 1944.[21] He was elected Fellow of the Royal Society on 16 March 1944, and was knighted in the same year.[22]

In 1944, Drummond became an adviser on nutrition to Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force and in 1945 to the allied control commissions for Germany and Austria. Also in 1945 he joined Boots Pure Drug Company as Director of Research, but remained seconded to the Ministry of Food until 1946.

Drummond's career move to Boots at Nottingham was surprising to many of his former colleagues. It was also surprising that a man who had publicly advocated the exhaustive testing of new agrochemicals should have been responsible for the development of possibly harmful products such as Cornox, based on Dichlorprop, one of the chlorine-based phenoxy family of hormone weed-killers descended from ICI's wartime invention MCPA. Concerns about the lack of data on the toxicity of Dichlorprop led to its withdrawal from the UK market in 2003.[23] On the other hand, Drummond's successor as Boots's director of research, Gordon Hobday, described Drummond as "an altruist" who had committed substantial research resources into cures for tropical diseases. Hobday had quickly cancelled this research, saying "there was never any money in it."[24]

[edit]Murder

On the evening of 4 August 1952, while on holiday in France in their green Hillman estate car, the Drummonds stopped by the side of the N96 main road, less than 200 metres from a picturesque farmhouse called La Grand'Terre. The site is marked by a milestone as exactly 6 km south of Peyruis and 6 km north of La Brillanne. A footpath leads from the site down to the banks of the river Durance.

La Grand'Terre was the home of the Dominicis, a family of Franco-Italian peasant farmers: the patriarch Gaston, his wife Marie, their son Gustave, Gustave's wife Yvette and their baby son Alain. It was Gustave who claimed to have found the three dead bodies around 5:30am on the morning of 5 August, and who flagged down a passing motorcyclist, Jean-Marie Olivier, telling him to fetch the police.

Anne's body was found near the car. Jack's lay on the other side of the N96, covered by a camp bed. They had both been shot by a Rock-Ola rifle. The body of 10-year-old Elizabeth was found 77 metres away, down the path leading to the river, on the other side of the bridge over the railway. Her head had been brutally smashed in by the stock of the rifle. The barrel of the murder weapon was soon found in the river, with the stock a short distance downstream. It is likely that the force of the blow or blows used to kill Elizabeth had also broken the stock off the rifle.

Gaston Dominici was convicted of the murders in November 1954, and sentenced to death by guillotine. However, both the police investigation and the conduct of the trial had been widely criticised, and after two inconclusive inquiries, President René Coty commuted the sentence to life imprisonment. Coty was succeeded in 1959 by President Charles de Gaulle, who ordered Dominici's release on humanitarian grounds, but did not pardon him, nor grant his request for a retrial.[25]

The Drummonds are buried in the cemetery of the well-known tourist town of Forcalquier, about 25 km east of Lurs. Near the stone bridge over the railway, a cross with children's votive offerings marks the spot where Elizabeth's body was found.

The murders remain a subject of hot dispute to this day in France, where they are referred to as l'affaire Dominici (French). Alain Dominici, a baby at the time of the murders, has spent a lifetime campaigning for the innocence of his grandfather.

[edit]Awards and honours

1918 D.Sc. from University of London
1944 knighted
1944 elected FRS
1946 Commander (Civil Division) of the Order of Orange-Nassau[26]
1946 elected Honorary Member of the New York Academy of Sciences[27]
1947 Lasker Group Award of the APHA[28]
1948 honorary doctorate from University of Paris[7][28][29]
United States Medal of Freedom with Silver Palms[7][29]
[edit]See also
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