Are Evangelical Christians Warmongers?

[ohme]

Originally Posted by vancity eagle

Actually it does. The elites pretty much all follow occult rituals through freemasonry and a plethora of other mystical practises, whether it be buddhism, new age practises, kabbalah , mormonism etc. I think you would agree that the elites are not the most honest people, and whatever religion they may claim to follow is probably done so for political purposes.

Sure, but it seems to me a simple belief in Revelation is enough too.

The occult are most definately protecting Israel. Even the damn flag of Israel has an occult symbol or hex on it. How much more obvious can you get. Israel is supported by Kabbalists, and Freemasons etc.

So all the strong support for Israel , especially amongst evangelicals , is not true? These evangelicals believe Israel has to be there. They look to Revealtion, not some Masonic gospel.

There are actually many cultures who have stories similar to revelations, speaking of endtimes and a great evil which will proliferate throughout the world. The agenda is spelled out in works like the Protocols of Zion, the Illuminati manuscripts found in Germany, various foundation white papers, etc. Bible prophecy simply explains how it will all manifest. The agenda would still be here whether there were Bibles or not. The Bible is not making ANYTHING happen.

I beg to differ here. With all due respect, but how can the bible not be releveant if it is apparently explaining how things are going to manifest? You see I find that quite a dangerious idea, that we have a book that has prophecized what is to happen in this world.

Those who are decieved whether Christians or non Christians will ultimately find their place in the grand scheme of the Devil.

Will they? Will they join the other billions that haven't pleased Sir God?

They will all participate in the construction of Satans masterpiece.

The thing is, Satan's masterpiece may well be Revelation, do you perhaps think that possible?

Again they (evangelicals) are not consciously aware of what they are doing. Perhaps some of the leaders may be, but not the main body of followers. There is nothing unrealistic about this. However ultimately it will be their failure to know the real Christ which leads them into this deception.

They are convinced that they are following the Christ that is going to be here any minute, and Rapture them.

Can you spare a few, and tell me what you think Revelation is explaining here?

[vancity eagle]

Originally Posted by ohme

The thing is, Satan's masterpiece may well be Revelation, do you perhaps think that possible?



They are convinced that they are following the Christ that is going to be here any minute, and Rapture them.

Can you spare a few, and tell me what you think Revelation is explaining here?

Yes Satan's attempted masterpiece is described in Revelation, but it isn't succesful in the end.

There is no such thing as any rapture described in the book of Revelation. In fact it is explicit according to Revelations that the saints/believers will be martyred in large numbers, many beheaded.

I suspect most of these Evangelical types will overtly turn to the darkside when faced with this prospect.

[ohme]

Originally Posted by vancity eagle

Yes Satan's attempted masterpiece is described in Revelation, but it isn't succesful in the end.

There is no such thing as any rapture described in the book of Revelation. In fact it is explicit according to Revelations that the saints/believers will be martyred in large numbers, many beheaded.

I suspect most of these Evangelical types will overtly turn to the darkside when faced with this prospect.

The rapture is pretty popular amongst christians. It isn't in Revelation, but Revelation is what they are pinning their hopes on. A little like yourself in that repsect. It's still all about Revelations to you isn't it? This is how this book, this manipulation tool has survived for so long.

But if you want to bring recent events into play, and say that only now is Revelation applicable, then this is what the evangelicals are also protecting when they support Israel and Amercia's foreign policy.

Now you say that it is more a new age/masonic/satanist agenda. And we ask, an agenda to protect Israel, making the evangelicals think it is because of the rapture, but really it is because of setting up a false God?

I fully agree, the agenda is always about setting up false Gods, and recently in history it has been christians that have been busy bowing down to them.

The heart of the misery here on this planet is with books like Revelation. But of course, it goes as far deep as David Icke is saying here. All said in the first 20 minutes, and it shows the real use of books like Revelation.:

Ruled by the Gods David Icke - YouTube

Ruled by the Gods David Icke - YouTube

[ohme]

There's no getting away from the Politics and Revelation mix. Even amongst those that don't agree with the interpretation highlighted in this article, there is still the belief that Revelation is telling a real story.

Mixing prophecy and politics

Christian Zionists are growing in influence - even as they fight for policies their critics say work against peace in the Mideast. For these believers, it's all about fulfilling biblical prophecy.

JERUSALEM

Ray Sanders and his wife, Sharon, grew up on farms in the American Midwest, but Israel has long been their home. Their journey began in the 1970s, when they read Hal Lindsey's apocalyptic bestseller, "The Late Great Planet Earth," which laid out a scenario for the end of the world according to a literal interpretation of Bible prophecies.

"That awakened our understanding to Israel and its prophetic role in the Last Days," Mr. Sanders explains in his spacious Jerusalem office. "That was a real paradigm shift in our lives."

That shift spurred the couple to leave their jobs, attend Bible college in Texas, and move to Jerusalem, where in 1985 they helped found a biblical Zionist organization called Christian Friends of Israel (CFI).

With a handful of similar groups here they are marshalling financial and moral support from evangelical Christians around the world, and particularly in the United States, to fulfill what they see as their role in an unfolding final drama.

Christian Zionists, an Evangelical subset whose ranks are estimated at 20 million in the US, have in the past two decades poured millions of dollars of donations into Israel, formed a tight alliance with the Likud and other Israeli politicians seeking an expanded "Greater Israel," and mobilized grass-roots efforts to get the US to adopt a similar policy.

Christian Zionist leaders today have access to the White House and strong support within Congress, including the backing of the two most recent majority leaders in the House of Representatives.

For many Jews, the enthusiastic support of these evangelical Christians is welcome at a time of terrorism and rising anti-Semitism. Several Israeli leaders have called them "the best friends Israel has."

But other Jews and Christians have begun speaking against the alliance, which they see as a dangerous mix of religion and politics that is harmful to Israel and endangers prospects for peace with the Palestinians.
The prophecy

For Christian Zionists, the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment of God's covenant with Abraham and the center of His action from now to the Second Coming of Christ and final battle of Armageddon, when the Antichrist will be defeated. But before this can occur, they say, biblical prophecy foretells the return of Jews from other countries; Israel's possession of all the land between the Euphrates and Nile rivers; and the rebuilding of the Jewish temple where a Muslim site, Dome of the Rock, now stands.

These beliefs lead to positions that critics say are uncompromising and ignore the fact that most Israelis want peace. "Pressuring the US government away from peace negotiations and toward an annexationist policy, that has a direct negative impact on the potential for change in the Middle East," says Gershom Gorenberg, a senior editor at The Jerusalem Report newsmagazine.

Two former chief rabbis of Israel, Avraham Shapira and Mordechai Eliahu, recently approved a ruling urging followers not to accept money from the groups, warning that their ultimate intent is conversion of Jews. (Christian Zionists believe that during the Last Days Jews must either accept Jesus as the Messiah or perish.)

Other Christians in the Holy Land oppose what they consider a false interpretation of Christianity that is heightening tensions here. "Christian Zionism transforms faith into a political ideology, and one that needs an enemy," says the Rev. Rafik Khoury, of the Catholic Latin Patriarchate in Jerusalem.

But Christian Zionists argue that Christians' role is to back Israel wholeheartedly and conform to God's message in Genesis: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curses thee" (Gen. 12:3).

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http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p15s01-lire.html

[bendoon]

Originally Posted by ohme

There's no getting away from the Politics and Revelation mix. Even amongst those that don't agree with the interpretation highlighted in this article, there is still the belief that Revelation is telling a real story.

How many times do you have to be told, of course it is telling a real story. It is the word of God.

Can't you see that what is happening is what has been written down 2000 years ago.

It says that the forces of evil will set up the seat of the antichrist in Jerusalem, thats what they are doing, can't you see that, they have already built the freaking building.

But, but, but, what they forget to tell you, their plans are thwarted by the forces of good, you can read it for yourself if you want, everyone can.

What these foolish evangelicals and Christian Zionists don't realise due to their own pig headedness is that they are supporting the forces of evil and they will be horrified when they find out in due course that they have picked the wrong side, Satan instead of God.

[bikerdruid]

Originally Posted by bendoon

How many times do you have to be told, of course it is telling a real story. It is the word of God.

your fairy tale is cute, but hardly credible.

[ohme]

Originally Posted by bendoon

How many times do you have to be told, of course it is telling a real story. It is the word of God.

Can't you see that what is happening is what has been written down 2000 years ago.

It says that the forces of evil will set up the seat of the antichrist in Jerusalem, thats what they are doing, can't you see that, they have already built the freaking building.

But, but, but, what they forget to tell you, their plans are thwarted by the forces of good, you can read it for yourself if you want, everyone can.

What these foolish evangelicals and Christian Zionists don't realise due to their own pig headedness is that they are supporting the forces of evil and they will be horrified when they find out in due course that they have picked the wrong side, Satan instead of God.

As I said , christians may disagree on interpretation, but all must bow to Revelation it seems.

But at least you are honest, and won't deny the link between Revelation and this world's constant misery. In your view God's behind it. And in my view, everything but God is behind it.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from you to ask you to imagine that you have been conned, as has every generation, and unless the program is stopped, every generation into the far off future will continue to be conned.

You will come to the end of your present life, and you will be gripped with the feeling that the end is imminent, as has every religious fanatic in the past.

Funnily enough, the conditions for assuming Revelation is telling a real story have been set up by the christians themselves. The devestions of the world wars, for example. Who set up Israel, and who carries on that support, nurturing her existence so as to believe one is in the end times?

It's a drug addiction to a fanatic, to live in a semi hazy world where the sky could open up any minute and one's God has returned. Dangerous hipnotism.

The common sense Christian needs to kick the fanatic out once and for all.

[vancity eagle]

Originally Posted by ohme

.

The common sense Christian needs to kick the fanatic out once and for all.

Nothing can be done for most of mankind, as they are too stubborn and decieved to know the truth. The Bible states the the Dragon/Devil has decieved the whole world. Most people are under some form of Satans deceptions, and will be led to destruction because of it. Most Christians themselves are decieved, and there is no turning back for them. Christ himself warned that most Christians would be decieved. This applies to these Evangelicals we are talking about.
The thing is a Kingdom is being built, it is Satans kingdom. The decieved are adding their bit to build this kingdom, and they will not partake in the kingdom that is established after this one is burned down.

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by seanx

All these fundis have no problem with this bloodlust and the killing of whole countries

Yes. And all 'blacks n latinos' who grow up in the ghettos, who witness crime 'n intolerance, themselves grow up to be criminals

You would do well to remember that Jesus Himself said, ' He that saith , I know him, and keepeth not his commandments [i.e do not lie, do not steal, do not kill etc], is a liar, and the truth is not in him." ~ 1 John 2:4

Originally Posted by seanx

because subliminally they have been programmed with the vision of God as a violent, all-powerful entity who intends to inflict his own program of genocide on everybody who does not submit to his rule.

I guess you never read how many times Moses and his brother Aaron, pleaded with pharoah, to let the Israelites go and be free, to serve God and how many times pharoah mocked them and blatantly refuse to set the slaves free. God was merciful even to this blasphemous ruler, for as it has been written, "The LORD is merciful and gracious; he is slow to get angry and full of unfailing love." ~ Psalm 103:8

BTW....church people are the WORST 'measuring stick' you can use for criticizing 'Christianity'

[ohme]

Originally Posted by vancity eagle

Nothing can be done for most of mankind, as they are too stubborn and decieved to know the truth. The Bible states the the Dragon/Devil has decieved the whole world. Most people are under some form of Satans deceptions, and will be led to destruction because of it. Most Christians themselves are decieved, and there is no turning back for them. Christ himself warned that most Christians would be decieved. This applies to these Evangelicals we are talking about.
The thing is a Kingdom is being built, it is Satans kingdom. The decieved are adding their bit to build this kingdom, and they will not partake in the kingdom that is established after this one is burned down.

But it seems to me, yet another generation of believers are fixated to revelation.

Revelation is a con, that keeps mankind in misery. What we are going to have to do is eventually save the Christian from himself, and attempt to expose and scrap Revelation. Whatchya think of that? My view is that God won't be angry about it, won't return, and we may get rid of at least one nasty programming device used on mankind.

Then we can finally have "christianity" on this planet eh?

[valmar]

Originally Posted by ohme

But it seems to me, yet another generation of believers are fixated to revelation.

Revelation is a con, that keeps mankind in misery. What we are going to have to do is eventually save the Christian from himself, and attempt to expose and scrap Revelation. Whatchya think of that? My view is that God won't be angry about it, won't return, and we may get rid of at least one nasty programming device used on mankind.

Then we can finally have "christianity" on this planet eh?

Revelations seems violent, but my research suggests that Revelations is heavily dappled in symbolism. A lot of PAGAN symbolism that is! All thanks to Manly P. Hall for this! He has a BRILLIANT mind! Many freemasons seem to be rather intelligent...

[ohme]

Originally Posted by valmar

Revelations seems violent, but my research suggests that Revelations is heavily dappled in symbolism. A lot of PAGAN symbolism that is! All thanks to Manly P. Hall for this! He has a BRILLIANT mind! Many freemasons seem to be rather intelligent...

Yes that's true, and if that symbolism is mainly about some internal spiritual alchemy, then one should inform christians of this pretty prompto.

Trouble is that we have a world where many fanatics take a literal interpretation. And it has never been as dangerous to do that as it is nowadays.

[logos880]

Originally Posted by ohme

But it seems to me, yet another generation of believers are fixated to revelation.

Revelation is a con, that keeps mankind in misery. What we are going to have to do is eventually save the Christian from himself, and attempt to expose and scrap Revelation. Whatchya think of that? My view is that God won't be angry about it, won't return, and we may get rid of at least one nasty programming device used on mankind.

Then we can finally have "christianity" on this planet eh?

yee haw, lets have a good ole fashioned book burning!

[ohme]

Originally Posted by logos880

yee haw, lets have a good ole fashioned book burning!

Put it in a museum maybe.

Beside, if mankind responds to the challenge and begins to build a better world, that in itself puts an end to the overall fanaticism over Revelation.

[logos880]

Originally Posted by ohme

Put it in a museum maybe.

Beside, if mankind responds to the challenge and begins to build a better world, that in itself puts an end to the overall fanaticism over Revelation.

or we could support freedom of information and allow folks to read or not read whatever they choose. this world will never be "all good" or " all bad", and banning books won't change that.

more and more your ideas seem to be taking on an orwellian distopian nature, comrade ohme.

[passerbye999]

Originally Posted by ohme

Yes that's true, and if that symbolism is mainly about some internal spiritual alchemy, then one should inform christians of this pretty prompto.

Trouble is that we have a world where many fanatics take a literal interpretation. And it has never been as dangerous to do that as it is nowadays.

Many people try to make something of revelations which it is not. It is no different than the Essenes War Scroll. The book should be removed from the NT it has no place there except to propogate fear and answer Jesus's return scenario. It is an Evil Book. There is no God of Love in it. There is no spiritual alchemy in it. Unless death and destruction are spiritual and war is alchemy.

I rather dislike Paul but there is more spiritual achemy in his epistles than is in the Revelation. What is spiritually uplifting in revelations?

[ohme]

Originally Posted by logos880

or we could support freedom of information and allow folks to read or not read whatever they choose. this world will never be "all good" or " all bad", and banning books won't change that.

more and more your ideas seem to be taking on an orwellian distopian nature, comrade ohme.

who said we should ban it? When I say scrap such books, we can do so in a natural progression of waking up a bit more, rather than sleeping like docile dreamers.

Trouble with you is that you are always looking for the worst in unbeleivers. You're a typical fanatic basically, and trying turn the tables round on someone yet again.

There' a fair few christians that don't take Revelation that seriously. They take the love bit and leave it at that.

Ok Comrade Chosen few?

[ohme]

Originally Posted by passerbye999

Many people try to make something of revelations which it is not. It is no different than the Essenes War Scroll. The book should be removed from the NT it has no place there except to propogate fear and answer Jesus's return scenario. It is an Evil Book. There is no God of Love in it. There is no spiritual alchemy in it. Unless death and destruction are spiritual and war is alchemy.

I rather dislike Paul but there is more spiritual achemy in his epistles than is in the Revelation. What is spiritually uplifting in revelations?

Precisely, you echo my view entirely here.

Revelation inspires the worst kind of people. Or one could say it is no more than a demuirge's vain dream. The ultimate spanking, the ultimate worship, the ultimate revenge, the ultimate fear. But Revelation has all the wrong ingredients to bake the cake it claims it will eventually bake, that of love and peace and freedom.

[bikerdruid]

Originally Posted by logos880

yee haw, lets have a good ole fashioned book burning!

burning books id despicable.
the bible is a cool book, it just isn't the manual of the universe or a blueprint for all knowledge.


live your life as you wish, harming none.
simple.
no bible needed to figure that out.

[chrysalis55]

Revelations - argh could drive a person to drink

So doing a bit of research I found a website timeenoughforlove.org./Revelation.htm which got me interested when I read this paragraph.

"Yes, this is part of the beauty and brilliance of the way it is written. It is understood largely subjectively and as such is open to countless interpretations. Like good art, people will project themselves into the work. Those who wish/expect to see pain and suffering will find it, those who look for deliverance and escape will find it. This style of writing works because it enables the reader to not necessarily identify external truths but instead internal (self) truths. I attempt to employ the same strategy on my website. If I have sufficient evidence to make my argument I prefer not to explain it in my own words. This forces the reader to use their own brain more, mostly intuition (Ne), consider different interpretations, and draw their own conclusions (Fe). In this way they also learn a lot more about their own previously held assumptions and why they held them. Hopefully they will gain insight into themselves and other people that relates to, but operates independently of (Ni) the content of just that page. Here is a recent (2003-2004) scientific explanation of this strategy;"

It goes on. I am going to delve into it, it looks like it makes sense. If anyone reads it, please give me your opinion.