Shawnee Legends of Massacre of "White Indians"

moundbuilder · 07-06-2012, 04:21 PM

Shawnee Indians have a legend that the last of the mound builders of the Ohio Valley were slaughtered at the Falls of the Ohio. These Indians were called "White Indians" by the Shawnee.

http://moundbuilder.blogspot.com/201...-of-white.html

neville fan · 13-06-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moundbuilder

Shawnee Indians have a legend that the last of the mound builders of the Ohio Valley were slaughtered at the Falls of the Ohio. These Indians were called "White Indians" by the Shawnee.

http://moundbuilder.blogspot.com/201...-of-white.html

I used to live in southern Indiana, and my barber told me about a book talking about these people were the descendants of Madoc, who was welsh and came to explore america.

drakul · 13-06-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moundbuilder

Shawnee Indians have a legend that the last of the mound builders of the Ohio Valley were slaughtered at the Falls of the Ohio. These Indians were called "White Indians" by the Shawnee.

http://moundbuilder.blogspot.com/201...-of-white.html

Very interesting.

Along similar lines, it is strange why archeologists and anthropologists never pay any attention to the very obvious physiological differences between Eastern/Plains Indians and the Indians of the Far West, SW and NW. Eastern and Plains Indians were taller, more Europid in appearance with a high nose bridge while Far West are shorter, low nose bridge and definitely more Asiatic in appearance.

Also the TOOLS/arrow heads, axes, etc of Central and Eastern Indians resemble those of European Neolithic era. Not only that but they have been dated to be at least as old or older than Western Indians.

positive_forward · 13-06-2012, 01:24 PM

I'm aware of the concept but didn't know all the above.
What was Clovis? A tribe or place? And is that connected to the mound builders?

drakul · 13-06-2012, 02:28 PM

Clovis New Mexico was the original site of a tool making culture which was for a long time considered the oldest in N Am (13,000yrs). Clovis tools have been considered proof that the original immigrants into N Am came from Asia over a glacial ice age bridge into Alaska and down the West Coast.

However much older sites with a different tool-making culture reminiscent of that by Cro Magnon people of France have now been discovered on the East coast, including one in South Carolina - 25,000 years old.

Clovis culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Clovis culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(scroll down for site age comparison chart)

biblegirl · 13-06-2012, 05:00 PM

Interesting stuff

any more detail on what arts they were skilled in ??

believenothing · 13-06-2012, 05:20 PM

The Americas have a much different history than what is currently canon. Historians are stubborn geezers, academia is full of psychopaths, political reasons, etc. so that's why we don't hear much. There are also things like credibility and paychecks at stake. Current research following a foundation set up years ago would have to get tossed.

No excuse for following dead ends and junk research, but that's what they do. They've gone through the trouble of sabotaging and/or destroying artifacts.

Archaeological sites and genetic tests have proven the Bering Strait origin theory as mostly false. The significance of the genetics has been downplayed for years, but the haplogroups show a likely different origin for South Americans, North Americans in the East, North Americans in the West, and Inuits. Most populations were related from years of being isolated. North Eastern Amerindians had 'anomalous' (LOL!) genetic admixture from Western Europe. North Eastern Amerindians and Inuits share plenty of genetic admixture with Russia/Mongolia. This group could have come across the Bering Strait land bridge in theory, but that theory is used (stupidly) for all others.

The South Eastern and South American Amerindians, along with some Inuit share a common haplogroup and common blood type. This is also common to an isolate area of Russia from from The Bering Strait. They found at least one skeleton near Alaska whose closest relatives were all the way in South America. IMHO, this supports the Atzlan legend considering the dispersal. Atzlan was located far in the North. The Barents Sea used to be land. It's flooded over and also icy in the north (where there are a couple islands like Svalbard). The North Pole, according to legend, was once more tolerably (Hyperborea myth). We know that around 12,000 years ago, something happened causing Northern Russia to go from tropical to arctic almost in an instant. The genetic dispersal makes sense even including Europe. This also coincides with the Atlantis myth and the Egyptian "Western land" and "Northern land" myths.

It's also completely foolish to think when the 4500 year-old Khufu ship is ocean worthy that nobody crossed the ocean. Both Plato (in Timaeus and Critias) and Herodotus mention something that historians fail to elaborate on. About 2,400 years ago the oceans were not really navigable. Not because of their vastness but because of some sort of mud or sediment. Plato mentions the Atlantic being like this and Herodotus mentions the Indian Ocean. 800 years before then, something major had led to the major civilization changes/clashes all over Europe, Africa, and Asia.

tl;dr

Phoenicians visited the Americas and established trade routes. So did the Chinese, so did Jews and Turks. So did Berbers (who had a special relationship with the Cherokees). Several artifacts have been found and many have been suppressed or ignored. A few thousands years ago somebody mined all the copper in Michigan and brought it to Europe.

I don't think the original Americans were white Europeans like some WNs do. That's just like the ACs saying original Europeans were blacks. The history of the world is stranger than the truth, maybe even closer to the fiction.

biblegirl · 13-06-2012, 05:38 PM

I think its likely that way back then they had sophisticated means of travel, maybe even more sophisticated than ours, but we are still essentially portraying them as stupid cave men with rocks and sticks

.

moundbuilder · 19-06-2012, 05:06 PM

You are correct. Because it does not fit in to the academic theory, it is dismissed.

mr_i_disagree · 20-06-2012, 01:56 AM

does this tie in with the money pit mystery?

drakul · 20-06-2012, 01:57 PM

If you think about it - People now ROW in little rowboats across the Atlantic. And they do it alone. Next to the great pyramid of Egypt was found a boat 170 feet long. This boat was buried there nearly 5,000 years ago.

So we are supposed to think the ancients of North Africa/Mediterranean could not do possibly cross the Atlantic?

Of course Thor Heyerdahl proved this could be done back in the 1950's with his reed boat - the Kontiki which he sailed across the Atlantic from Egypt. But MS anthropologists have chosen to ignore the implications for the progenitors of the American Indians. Because it's not politically correct.

abacus · 20-06-2012, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drakul

So we are supposed to think the ancients of North Africa/Mediterranean could not do possibly cross the Atlantic?

Of course Thor Heyerdahl proved this could be done back in the 1950's with his reed boat - the Kontiki which he sailed across the Atlantic from Egypt. But MS anthropologists have chosen to ignore the implications for the progenitors of the American Indians. Because it's not politically correct.

The Ra Expedition took place in 1969-1970, when Heyerdahl sailed a papyrus reed raft (not the Kon Tiki) from Morocco to Barbados.

07-06-2012, 04:21 PM	#1
moundbuilder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 140	Shawnee Legends of Massacre of "White Indians" Shawnee Indians have a legend that the last of the mound builders of the Ohio Valley were slaughtered at the Falls of the Ohio. These Indians were called "White Indians" by the Shawnee. http://moundbuilder.blogspot.com/201...-of-white.html

13-06-2012, 01:24 PM	#4
positive_forward Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,161	I'm aware of the concept but didn't know all the above. What was Clovis? A tribe or place? And is that connected to the mound builders?

13-06-2012, 05:00 PM	#6
biblegirl Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 6,548	Interesting stuff any more detail on what arts they were skilled in ??

13-06-2012, 05:20 PM	#7
believenothing Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hyperborea Posts: 3,018	The Americas have a much different history than what is currently canon. Historians are stubborn geezers, academia is full of psychopaths, political reasons, etc. so that's why we don't hear much. There are also things like credibility and paychecks at stake. Current research following a foundation set up years ago would have to get tossed. No excuse for following dead ends and junk research, but that's what they do. They've gone through the trouble of sabotaging and/or destroying artifacts. Archaeological sites and genetic tests have proven the Bering Strait origin theory as mostly false. The significance of the genetics has been downplayed for years, but the haplogroups show a likely different origin for South Americans, North Americans in the East, North Americans in the West, and Inuits. Most populations were related from years of being isolated. North Eastern Amerindians had 'anomalous' (LOL!) genetic admixture from Western Europe. North Eastern Amerindians and Inuits share plenty of genetic admixture with Russia/Mongolia. This group could have come across the Bering Strait land bridge in theory, but that theory is used (stupidly) for all others. The South Eastern and South American Amerindians, along with some Inuit share a common haplogroup and common blood type. This is also common to an isolate area of Russia from from The Bering Strait. They found at least one skeleton near Alaska whose closest relatives were all the way in South America. IMHO, this supports the Atzlan legend considering the dispersal. Atzlan was located far in the North. The Barents Sea used to be land. It's flooded over and also icy in the north (where there are a couple islands like Svalbard). The North Pole, according to legend, was once more tolerably (Hyperborea myth). We know that around 12,000 years ago, something happened causing Northern Russia to go from tropical to arctic almost in an instant. The genetic dispersal makes sense even including Europe. This also coincides with the Atlantis myth and the Egyptian "Western land" and "Northern land" myths. It's also completely foolish to think when the 4500 year-old Khufu ship is ocean worthy that nobody crossed the ocean. Both Plato (in Timaeus and Critias) and Herodotus mention something that historians fail to elaborate on. About 2,400 years ago the oceans were not really navigable. Not because of their vastness but because of some sort of mud or sediment. Plato mentions the Atlantic being like this and Herodotus mentions the Indian Ocean. 800 years before then, something major had led to the major civilization changes/clashes all over Europe, Africa, and Asia. tl;dr Phoenicians visited the Americas and established trade routes. So did the Chinese, so did Jews and Turks. So did Berbers (who had a special relationship with the Cherokees). Several artifacts have been found and many have been suppressed or ignored. A few thousands years ago somebody mined all the copper in Michigan and brought it to Europe. I don't think the original Americans were white Europeans like some WNs do. That's just like the ACs saying original Europeans were blacks. The history of the world is stranger than the truth, maybe even closer to the fiction.

13-06-2012, 05:38 PM	#8
biblegirl Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 6,548	I think its likely that way back then they had sophisticated means of travel, maybe even more sophisticated than ours, but we are still essentially portraying them as stupid cave men with rocks and sticks .

19-06-2012, 05:06 PM	#9
moundbuilder Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 140	You are correct. Because it does not fit in to the academic theory, it is dismissed.

20-06-2012, 01:56 AM	#10
mr_i_disagree Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 447	does this tie in with the money pit mystery?

20-06-2012, 01:57 PM	#11
drakul Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,646	If you think about it - People now ROW in little rowboats across the Atlantic. And they do it alone. Next to the great pyramid of Egypt was found a boat 170 feet long. This boat was buried there nearly 5,000 years ago. So we are supposed to think the ancients of North Africa/Mediterranean could not do possibly cross the Atlantic? Of course Thor Heyerdahl proved this could be done back in the 1950's with his reed boat - the Kontiki which he sailed across the Atlantic from Egypt. But MS anthropologists have chosen to ignore the implications for the progenitors of the American Indians. Because it's not politically correct.