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Old 03-06-2012, 01:04 PM   #1
moundbuilder
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Default Babylonian Numerology in the Mormon Bible

The Amorite Numerology codex of Gematria can be found in both the Bible and the Mormon Bible. The numbers reflect the veneration of the Male Sun and the Female Earth. 666 and 660 represented the Sun god and 1080 represents the Earth or Lunar Mother.

http://gematrianumerology.blogspot.c...mon-bible.html
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Old 26-11-2012, 09:52 AM   #2
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The Amorite Numerology codex of Gematria can be found in both the Bible and the Mormon Bible. The numbers reflect the veneration of the Male Sun and the Female Earth. 666 and 660 represented the Sun god and 1080 represents the Earth or Lunar Mother.

http://gematrianumerology.blogspot.c...mon-bible.html
By Mormon Bible you mean Book of Mormon. Latter-Day Saints use the King James Version Bible as their Bible, along with Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price.

Also anyone can do numbers like this. If I divide this by that and then times it by this then add a 5 I get this number which proves this that I am trying to sell.
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Old 30-11-2012, 09:43 AM   #3
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The Amorite Numerology codex of Gematria can be found in both the Bible and the Mormon Bible. The numbers reflect the veneration of the Male Sun and the Female Earth. 666 and 660 represented the Sun god and 1080 represents the Earth or Lunar Mother.

http://gematrianumerology.blogspot.c...mon-bible.html
the book of mormon is just as much bs as the koran torah n bible, infact its been proven to have been copied from a misprinted kjv but still the mormons believe it was written from 600bc. its just nonsense.

try reading actual science books instead.
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Old 30-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #4
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the book of mormon is just as much bs as the koran torah n bible, infact its been proven to have been copied from a misprinted kjv but still the mormons believe it was written from 600bc. its just nonsense.

try reading actual science books instead.
It has?

Never heard that one. I have heard many other theories. That it was a lost (or stolen) Spalding manuscript, it was written by several people working together, Sidney Rigdon wrote it, it was an expression of the times in words.
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Old 30-11-2012, 01:01 PM   #5
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It has?

Never heard that one. I have heard many other theories. That it was a lost (or stolen) Spalding manuscript, it was written by several people working together, Sidney Rigdon wrote it, it was an expression of the times in words.
I was a mormon for ~15 years.

you're both right to an extent.
Smith and Rigdon and Cowdrey all had a hand in creating the fiction.
Rigdon was acquainted with the spaulding manuscript and Cowdrey was a cousin of the Author of 'view of the Hebrews', Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph Smith).

all of them would have been well acquainted with the KJV bible..... to the extent that some verses were lifted wholesale from the KJV and dumped into the BoM - errors in (KJV) translation and all.

smith ( & Co) created the BoM, while Smith was a young man, in his early twenties. Although mormons like to say he was an uneducated farmboy, he is known to have been quite well read and had applied to be a methodist minister, before he found his niche as a religious conman
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Old 30-11-2012, 01:36 PM   #6
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I was a mormon for ~15 years.

you're both right to an extent.
Smith and Rigdon and Cowdrey all had a hand in creating the fiction.
Rigdon was acquainted with the spaulding manuscript and Cowdrey was a cousin of the Author of 'view of the Hebrews', Ethan Smith (no relation to Joseph Smith).

all of them would have been well acquainted with the KJV bible..... to the extent that some verses were lifted wholesale from the KJV and dumped into the BoM - errors in (KJV) translation and all.

smith ( & Co) created the BoM, while Smith was a young man, in his early twenties. Although mormons like to say he was an uneducated farmboy, he is known to have been quite well read and had applied to be a methodist minister, before he found his niche as a religious conman
Well he applied to go to Methodist seminary, but he never attended because of the protests of others in the area. He was already known for his vision before he went to Methodist church.

Rigdon was a late arrival to the party, plus as a well known minister why did he let so 'obvious' passages slip out? Also the supposed manusript was never found, even the wife of the late Spaulding knew nothing of this secret manuscript that contained Nephi etc. Only manuscript that was published had nothing related to the BOM. When the original case went to court it was proven that there was nothing plagiarized and then the originated of the rumour came up with the idea of a second 'lost' manuscript.

The view of the Hebrews talks of the Ten Lost Tribes in America, which was a common theme in America at the time of Joseph Smith. As a Mormon you would know that the BOM is not a book on the lost tribes but on a small group from the tribe of Mannasseh.

It was Cowdrey who knew Ethan Smith, not Sidney Rigdon. They came from the same town and Smith was also the pastor of the local Church with Cowdrey had attended.

Also Smith started transcribing the BOM before Rigdon and Cowdrey turned up, with the help of Martin Harris.

I have a Mormon wife and am well versed in the story from both sides. Most of the arguments are weak, don't follow the timeline and sometimes are totally fabricated. Yes the BOM story isn't the best but neither is it the worse.

Also here is the full text for one of your quotes, always best to state the whole thing, that is how people accuse Christians of arguing from the bible “We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question”
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Last edited by manxboz; 30-11-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 30-11-2012, 02:21 PM   #7
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Well he applied to go to Methodist seminary, but he never attended because of the protests of others in the area. He was already known for his vision before he went to Methodist church.
you could say that smith "never attended [methodist Seminary] because of the protests of others in the area"

In June 1828 Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of Mormonism, joined the Methodist Church [probationary class] in Harmony, Pennsylvania.

When Joseph Lewis, who was twenty-one at the time (about a year and a half younger than Smith), learned of this act, he felt that Joseph's manner of life rendered him unfit to be a member and told him either to "publicly ask to have his name stricken from the class book, or stand a disciplinary investigation."
"We thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments and bleeding ghosts, in it. So on Sunday we went to father's, the place of meeting that day, and got there in season to see Smith and talked with him some time in father's shop before the meeting. Told him that his occupation, habits, and moral character were at variance with the discipline, that his name would be a disgrace to the church, that there should have been recantation, confession and at least promised reformation-. That he could that day publicly ask that his name be stricken from the class book, or stand an investigation."

he was not known for his vision...... the 8 [different and conflicting] version of joseph Smith's first vision did not surface until later.........he was, however, known as a 'money digger', 'treasure seeker'[using a magic seer stone] and folk magician..... in fact he went before the court in 1826 for 'treaure seeking'. photocopies of the Original court transcripts can be seen online.

why did rigdon let obvious passages slip out?
because they gave the gullible reason to believe that the bible and BoM were part of the same canon.
I dont believe that Spaulding's manuscript was used 'wholesale cloth', but that elements influenced the writing via Rigdon

"The view of the Hebrews talks of the Ten Lost Tribes in America"
once again, I do not believe the story was used 'wholesale cloth' but that the elements influenced the writing of the BoM

"Also Smith started transcribing the BOM before Rigdon and Cowdrey turned up, with the help of Martin Harris."

and the first 116 pages were lost and could not be reproduced, so we have no idea how the story developed in them.


I agree that we will never know the whole story surrounding the writing of the BoM..... some of the arguments seem weak.

then again, the Mormon church does not help the situation, when a cartoon [south park] is more honest about the translation method than the mormon curch.

the story conained in the book of mormon is provably wrong. scientific howlers, DNA, anachronisms 16th century mistranslations, and much, much more

we could go back and forth between theories of authors and influences..............but, in short, the BOM is an 18th Century con
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