JFK assassination documents / government secrecy

[crushallserpents]

What gets declassified?

JFK assassination documents offer surprising lessons about government secrecy -- and Obama's presidency

By Russ Baker

"Next year will be a half-century since the death of JFK. And the Obama Administration thinks we need to keep secret the records on the matter … a little longer yet.

Believe it or not, more than 50,000 pages of JFK assassination–related documents are being withheld in full. And an untold number of documents have been partially withheld or released with everything interesting blacked out. But why?

Since the government and the big media keep telling us there was no conspiracy and that it was all Lee Harvey Oswald acting on his own, why continue to keep the wraps on?

We don’t have an answer, but in understanding this and any number of other mysteries, we can begin looking for patterns in the way the administration handles information policy."

Continued:

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/31/what...ied/singleton/

[dolores1]

Assassination monopoly!


They murdered 8 U.S. presidents,

5 Russian czars, the kings of England, France

and many other countries, and are still killing.

Who are they?

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE OBVIOUS ANSWER!



Remember my children, that all the Earth must belong to us Jews, and that the Gentiles, being mere excrements of animals, must possess nothing.

— Mayer Amschel Rothschild on his deathbed, 1812



By John Kaminski

[morning]

For anyone who doesn't know who shot JFK... Watch the video and give all your attention to the two men in front, the driver in particular. See him turning around, aiming, pulling the trigger? No joke.

JFK assassination Zapruder 100fps stable super slow motion - YouTube

JFK assassination Zapruder 100fps stable super slow motion - YouTube

[king triad]

Obama is great for all the cover-ups and criminal activity the US govt is involved with...he's just a hope and change guy running the country into the ground...of course he's not gonna release the JFK papers or talk about UFO's the truth is Obamas enemy..he enjoys living in the past..

[rexypoo]

Originally Posted by morning

For anyone who doesn't know who shot JFK... Watch the video and give all your attention to the two men in front, the driver in particular. See him turning around, aiming, pulling the trigger? No joke.

JFK assassination Zapruder 100fps stable super slow motion - YouTube

The driver has already been proven to not be the shooter. Yes it does look like he turns around and shoots him, but the object that looks like a gun is actually the reflection of the sun off the agent passenger's head.

My bet is on Jackie as the shooter. If you look very closely at 0:52s (just a few milliseconds AFTER the final shot), you can see her hand quickly go back as if she's attempting to toss something white out of her hand. It lands on the back of the car and you can see it very clearly. It slides all the way to the back of the car where it becomes lodged, you then see her jump to the back of the car and quickly grab it and go back inside the car. It also looks like the agent in the back of the car makes an attempt to grab it as well, but that can also look like he's grabbing the car to jump on. There's a theory that she may have used a Deringer to make the final shot, something small and very concealable. And after seeing this video again, I can agree with this theory.

I think his death will be uncovered when "disclosure" happens.

[dude111]

Originally Posted by king triad

Obama is great for all the cover-ups and criminal activity the US govt is involved with..

Oh yeah he sure is which is why the election was again rigged TO MAKE SURE HE GOT IN!!

[morning]

Originally Posted by rexypoo

The driver has already been proven to not be the shooter. Yes it does look like he turns around and shoots him, but the object that looks like a gun is actually the reflection of the sun off the agent passenger's head.

My bet is on Jackie as the shooter. If you look very closely at 0:52s (just a few milliseconds AFTER the final shot), you can see her hand quickly go back as if she's attempting to toss something white out of her hand. It lands on the back of the car and you can see it very clearly. It slides all the way to the back of the car where it becomes lodged, you then see her jump to the back of the car and quickly grab it and go back inside the car. It also looks like the agent in the back of the car makes an attempt to grab it as well, but that can also look like he's grabbing the car to jump on. There's a theory that she may have used a Deringer to make the final shot, something small and very concealable. And after seeing this video again, I can agree with this theory.

I think his death will be uncovered when "disclosure" happens.

To my knowledge, the driver pulled the trigger. And that's exactly what I see in the video and this has nothing to do with this reflection you're referring to. To draw attention to this reflection seems little more than an attempt to divert people's attention away from the driver as the man who pulled the trigger. Watching the video, it is quite clear to see the driver turn and extend his arm (not related to this reflection in any way) shoot JFK in the head, and then disguard the gun (possibly passing it to the man beside him). Logically, if you are going to set up a false narrative of a lone sniper, it makes sense to have the real assassin in the vehicle. As far as I can tell this story of 'the grassy knoll' is just a complete diversion tactic.

What evidence are you referring to which proves him not to be the shooter?

I would assume that in a total state of panic Jackie was trying to get out of the vehicle, considering that a man had just pointed a gun towards her and shot her husband in the head.

[angelsaredemons]

Oswald was definitely a weirdo capable of doing it, and most likely did it, but that's an amazing shot, considering it's on the reload, after the recoil, and hitting a target, driving 20 mph is the sort of thing an amateur wouldn't be able to do.

Trying to hit a moving target like that is something only a trained sniper could do, knowing exactly how far to lead the bullet and such. he took one shot and immediately adjusted for where the first shot hit, that's not something an amateur would do.

But if you're shooting from the back, not the side, it would be a lot easier, he's moving straight away, he would stay in the crosshairs much better.

hard to believe what one idiot can do, if he puts his mind to it.

[majorlee]

even JFK's secret service security wanted him dead

how as he ever to make it out alive??

if u can check out rense interview with the only negro SS guard he had next to him, shocking and damning statements, hope jeff releases that one to all


he is some good talks with jim marrs on how oswald could have been infact a hero to a previous attempt on JFK's life......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmOeL...ature=youtu.be

[rexypoo]

Originally Posted by morning

What evidence are you referring to which proves him not to be the shooter?

http://www.jfklancer.com/greer.html

Of course is isn't definite PROOF that he didn't do it, but it is good evidence towards the arguement that he's cleared.

If you don't think Jackie did it, then what are your throughts on the white object sliding on the back of the car? And why does her hand seem to "fling" something immediately after the shot?

[morning]

Originally Posted by rexypoo

http://www.jfklancer.com/greer.html

Of course is isn't definite PROOF that he didn't do it, but it is good evidence towards the arguement that he's cleared.

If you don't think Jackie did it, then what are your throughts on the white object sliding on the back of the car? And why does her hand seem to "fling" something immediately after the shot?

I am extremely suspicious of this website's willingness to so confidently dismiss William Greer (the driver) as the man who shot JFK, based on the ludicrus attention to this (very) innapropriately placed gun-shaped reflection on Agent Kellerman's hair.

Pause...

Yes, the reflection on his hair is remotely gun shaped, but that is utterly irrelevant to Greer's actions prior-to, during, and after the assassination. They may as well draw attention to a gun-shaped cloud for the same reason. It's a very poor attempt to dismiss what is right in front of us.

The article follows with equally flippant dismissals of Greer as the assassin. It certainly seems like someone is a little too eager to draw attention away from this thought.

I cannot see Jackie throw anything into the air. I do see her move her hands suddenly, she's wearing white gloves and there are reflections of light which move across the back of the vehicle. Put yourself in her position. Would you not also have reacted in this way under the circumstances? Bearing in mind that your driver has just turned around and shot your husband in the face? For her to throw her arms in the air, and scramble desperately out of the car, I'd say that is a very natural reaction to the situation. Simply examining this footage I'd say it is clear she did not shoot him, look at the direction of Kennedy's blood as it sprays out of his head.

I am utterly convinced that the driver, William Greer, shot Kennedy, and that this footage reveals exactly that.

[bluegrazz]

Originally Posted by morning

I am extremely suspicious of this website's willingness to so confidently dismiss William Greer (the driver) as the man who shot JFK, based on the ludicrus attention to this (very) innapropriately placed gun-shaped reflection on Agent Kellerman's hair.

Pause...

Yes, the reflection on his hair is remotely gun shaped, but that is utterly irrelevant to Greer's actions prior-to, during, and after the assassination. They may as well draw attention to a gun-shaped cloud for the same reason. It's a very poor attempt to dismiss what is right in front of us.

The article follows with equally flippant dismissals of this notion. It certainly seems like someone is a little too eager to dismiss him as the assassin.

I cannot see Jackie throw anything into the air. I do see her move her hands suddenly, she's wearing white gloves and there are reflections of light which move across the back of the vehicle. Put yourself in her position. Would you not also have reacted in this way under the circumstances? For her to throw her arms in the air, and scramble desperately out of the car, I'd say that is a very natural reaction to the situation. Simply examining this footage I'd say it is clear she did not shoot him, look at the direction of Kennedy's blood as it sprays out of his head.

I am utterly convinced that the driver, William Greer, shot Kennedy, and that this footage reveals exactly that.

It has pretty well been proven- But I'll be damned if I can remember exactly where I researched all of this.

I first heard of "the driver killed Kennedy" via William Cooper in a book or newsletter (Behold a Pale Horse?) and then later on saw the video in a lecture given by him.

I fully believed this theory- Obviously it was CLEAR...But not so much.

Years later I stumbled onto how this story began to circulate- Again I do not remember the details here nor do I have the time to try and retrace my research on this as it was ongoing over a few years.

Someone in the 1970s came up with this theory and it was picked up on by none other than John Lear (Of the Lear family and was huge in the ATS community) in the early 1980s(?)

Anyhow, Cooper picked up on this and ran with it- He had previously claimed nothing about knowing about this- But then came out and started he was "told about this" while working in "Navy Intelligence" BOTH of which turned out to be lies or greatly fabricated. He stated this immediately after viewing an alleged copy of the uncut zapruter (spelling?) film in a private screening with John Lear.

As much as I like and enjoyed and believed Cooper- He was a liar. Not in the same category a liar as Alex Jones- But he told lots of truth with lots of fake stories about what he "saw" or "heard".

Anyhow, the proof is out there. It wasn't the driver. It wasnt Oswald either (though he played a part) and Jack Ruby was certainly controled and programmed to take out OIswald.

-We will never know the truth and as time passes the likelyhood of answers grows dim- Kind of like 9-11.

The Best stuff on Kennedy was done in the 1960s and 1970s by Mae Brussels. Beyond that most books and information recycle her stuff.

EDIT: Not sure if this will get into everything, but its a good starting point I think. I dont have time to read it all but skimmed it and it seems to contain a pretty good jumping off point to research this. http://rr0.org/data/1/9/9/1/07/18/Ha.../02/index.html

[morning]

Thanks for the information. I've heard Bill Cooper claim it was Greer too, but I also have my doubts about him... for obvious reasons. I was introduced to this thought of Greer as the assassin by a friend whose research I trust, however my feeling convinced of this is simply based on my own gut feeling when I examine this footage with my own eyes. When I look at the footage and I examine Greer's movements (and Kellerman's movements) I have a very strong sense that he pulled the trigger. I get a sense that this is what is revealed in the film because, as far as I can see, everything relating to his movement suggests that he shot Kennedy. It is also relatively clear that after the shot was fired, as he is returning to face the front, he moves his left hand (which appears to have been resting upon the seat*) not back toward the wheel but actually over toward the right-hand side of the car, toward the dashboard. It looks to me as though he is disgarding a gun, or perhaps passing it to Kellerman. So, yes, I am expressing my own personal feeling on this. But, I am suggesting that this video should be regarded as evidence. The frames which capture this man's movements should be put under close scrutiny. I find it highly suspicious that there are websites which have scrutinised his actions in such a flippant and short-sighted manner.


*the seats are joined, and the design leaves small gaps suitable for a hand to rest in-between.

[bluegrazz]

Originally Posted by morning

Thanks for the information. I've heard Bill Cooper claim it was Greer too, but I also have my doubts about him... for obvious reasons. I was introduced to this thought of Greer as the assassin by a friend whose research I trust, however my feeling convinced of this is simply based on my own gut feeling when I examine this footage with my own eyes. When I look at the footage and I examine Greer's movements (and Kellerman's movements) I have a very strong sense that he pulled the trigger. I get a sense that this is what is revealed in the film because, as far as I can see, everything relating to his movement suggests that he shot Kennedy. It is also relatively clear that after the shot was fired, as he is returning to face the front, he moves his left hand (which appears to have been resting upon the seat*) not back toward the wheel but actually over toward the right-hand side of the car, toward the dashboard. It looks to me as though he is disguarding a gun, or perhaps passing it to Kellerman. So, yes, I am expressing my own personal feeling on this. But, I am suggesting that this video should be regarded as evidence. The frames which capture this man's movements should be put under close scrutiny. I find it highly suspicious that there are websites which have scrutinised his actions in such a flippant and short-sighted manner.

-And this illustrates the most dire problem which damns the "truth" movement (I say "truth" movement to mean any disbelief of any "official" story).

We can spot the lies. We can see thing which dont add up. Kennedys murder and 9-11 and great examples.

Unfortunately spotting the lies and knowing the "truth" are not the same. No matter how much we research and connect dots- Someone else researches and connects dots and we draw two separate conclusions.

Since there is no way to prove we are right until someone "officially" admits it and it becomes public knowledge- We spin our wheels and defend out points like sacred cows. And damn the whole search for truth.

Add some intentional disinformation and a controlled alternative media and our chance at ever finding truth without being lost in a web of redirection and confusion is guaranteed.

The truth is- None of us really know shit.

Even my own statement I made earlier when I said "Anyhow, the proof is out there. It wasn't the driver" was a lie. Not an intentional lie- But the truth is, I dont know. I wasnt there.

All we can ever do is speculate to what are essentially pointless ends as our beliefs will (probably) never be vindicated. Its kinda sad.

But we are truthseekers never the less. And its nice to be able to discuss and debate these issues with people who understand this and DONT cling to sacred cows.

Great thread all.

[bornfreenow]

Originally Posted by rexypoo

The driver has already been proven to not be the shooter. Yes it does look like he turns around and shoots him, but the object that looks like a gun is actually the reflection of the sun off the agent passenger's head.

My bet is on Jackie as the shooter. If you look very closely at 0:52s (just a few milliseconds AFTER the final shot), you can see her hand quickly go back as if she's attempting to toss something white out of her hand. It lands on the back of the car and you can see it very clearly. It slides all the way to the back of the car where it becomes lodged, you then see her jump to the back of the car and quickly grab it and go back inside the car. It also looks like the agent in the back of the car makes an attempt to grab it as well, but that can also look like he's grabbing the car to jump on. There's a theory that she may have used a Deringer to make the final shot, something small and very concealable. And after seeing this video again, I can agree with this theory.

I think his death will be uncovered when "disclosure" happens.

I agree with you on Jackie being the probable culprit. There was a thread on here a while ago that said the same thing; if you look closely it looks as if JFK becomes kind of paralysed before he is shot, perhaps a trigger word that disables him or makes him fall asleep.

You can see clearly he slumps and Jackie seems to be trying to support him right before he is shot. Was she actually holding a gun to his head whilst looking like supporting him? I think if you told people that it had been proven that Jackie was the shooter and showed them the video they would see it very clearly, everything fits this theory as well as you rightly say the object that appears to leave her hand at slide down the car. The driver does look culpable too and perhaps he was the one who said the trigger word to Jackie that then prompted her to fire?

[simmo]

The movie 'JFK' (1991) tells the true story of the only JFK assassination case that was ever taken to court. Knowing that movie was all based on true events and after my own research I conclude that it was neither the driver nor Jackie that pulled the trigger. In that movie above I see nothing even remotely resembling the driver turning around and firing a gun. Also I know for a fact that a derringer as is claimed Jackie used would NOT make that big of a mess of poor Kennedy's head - a derringer is a TINY handgun with a very small round, indeed they are great for up-close killing but they're favoured by assassins because of what little mess they make of the victim, yet still doing the job. Kennedy is clearly hit in the head with a very high powered round, at least that much is obvious. What Jackie is reaching for after the fatal shot is the back plate of her husbands skull, she's said so in interviews, and in autopsy photos you can indeed see that back portion of the head missing.

It is my opinion that there was 3 teams of shooters, two men per team, a spotter and a shooter. One over the fence, one in a building and the other in Oswald's position. Nothing more than that. These other theories in my opinion make a mockery of the whole affair and do the truth no justice.

[bornfreenow]

Originally Posted by simmo

The movie 'JFK' (1991) tells the true story of the only JFK assassination case that was ever taken to court. Knowing that movie was all based on true events and after my own research I conclude that it was neither the driver nor Jackie that pulled the trigger. In that movie above I see nothing even remotely resembling the driver turning around and firing a gun. Also I know for a fact that a derringer as is claimed Jackie used would NOT make that big of a mess of poor Kennedy's head - a derringer is a TINY handgun with a very small round, indeed they are great for up-close killing but they're favoured by assassins because of what little mess they make of the victim, yet still doing the job. Kennedy is clearly hit in the head with a very high powered round, at least that much is obvious. What Jackie is reaching for after the fatal shot is the back plate of her husbands skull, she's said so in interviews, and in autopsy photos you can indeed see that back portion of the head missing.

It is my opinion that there was 3 teams of shooters, two men per team, a spotter and a shooter. One over the fence, one in a building and the other in Oswald's position. Nothing more than that. These other theories in my opinion make a mockery of the whole affair and do the truth no justice.

I think people are claiming a derringer TYPE of weapon was used, who knows what type of weapon was available to those in the know back then? Whilst I respect your opinion I highly doubt that in a split second Jackie thought to retrieve a part of her husbands skull! What about the fairly obvious state JFK was in before he was shot? He certainly looks incapacitated to me before the shot goes off and she looks to whisper something to him right before that happens, she looks the most likely to me, and to be honest it would seem the most effective way of ensuring job done. Have you seen the numerous photos of Jackie with the same vacant look of a lot of the programmed stooges?

[majorlee]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

http://youtu.be/Vbgn6WD-t1Q

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

deserves a thread of its own really

[rodin]

Originally Posted by morning

For anyone who doesn't know who shot JFK... Watch the video and give all your attention to the two men in front, the driver in particular. See him turning around, aiming, pulling the trigger? No joke.

JFK assassination Zapruder 100fps stable super slow motion - YouTube

No one gets vilified for suggesting the driver shot JFK. That tells you right there he didn't. I, on the other hand, was threatened then suffered a physical assault after proving on the main JFK forum who really shot JFK.

Please note some images from the first couple posts were mysteriously deleted from my image hosting account. Repeated later in the thread

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158912

[majorlee]

well if u listen to those vidz above u can understand why some of the security could be blamed

thats pretty crazy what u say