What has religion done for mankind?

[arjuna12]

God is the ultimate freewill agent!

[ciko]

Originally Posted by selig

Is there anyone on this forum who actually needs advise on how to treat their slaves?

islam was sent during period when slaves where everywhere on earth, and islam gave solution for slaves, it was freedom

[extremecheese]

Originally Posted by ciko

is guidence or manual from God sent to people, how stuff work, how we shall live here, what happens to us after our death, why we are here,where are we going, how we think,explaining unseen stuff, what is good for us, what is bad for us and so on....

Does it ever bother you that despite knowing all this stuff, you are incapable of towing the line?
Sure you can attempt to work off your transgressions by 'nice acts' , and yes there is satisfaction in doing ritual or prayer in an attempt to work it off, but that's just glorifying yourself and is therefore an insult to God.
Do you not understand the hopelessness of giving swimming instructions to a drowning man, instead of throwing him a life raft?

[ciko]

Originally Posted by extremecheese

Does it ever bother you that despite knowing all this stuff, you are incapable of towing the line?
Sure you can attempt to work off your transgressions by 'nice acts' , and yes there is satisfaction in doing ritual or prayer in an attempt to work it off, but that's just glorifying yourself and is therefore an insult to God.
Do you not understand the hopelessness of giving swimming instructions to a drowning man, instead of throwing him a life raft?

let me clearfy some stuff here

God sent quran as manual for this life.

example

God says dont drink alcohol, it is not good for you, and if you do it you will also be punished after your death for that.

And some people say, whaaaaaaaat, to stop drink alcohol, no way i dont see any GOd, nobody shall forbidd me to enjoy myself, i do whatever i want. then after some party one night, sitting in car while driving drunk , treeeeee, nooooooo, booooom, DEAD, end of story

or not to talk about violence, rapes, murder, cancer wich also can be done beacuse of alcohol.

that it how it works

[extremecheese]

Originally Posted by ciko

let me clearfy some stuff here

God sent quran as manual for this life.

example

God says dont drink alcohol, it is not good for you, and if you do it you will also be punished after your death for that.

And some people say, whaaaaaaaat, to stop drink alcohol, no way i dont see any GOd, nobody shall forbidd me to enjoy myself, i do whatever i want. then after some party one night, sitting in car while driving drunk , treeeeee, nooooooo, booooom, DEAD, end of story

or not to talk about violence, rapes, murder, cancer wich also can be done beacuse of alcohol.

that it how it works

Thanks for the candid explanation!
However you and I know there's more rules than say just not drinking booze. My question therefore is how are your sins atoned for? are we talking a sacrifice every day? and what is that sacrifice? what makes it worthy etc

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by ciko

let me clearfy some stuff here

God sent quran as manual for this life.

example

God says dont drink alcohol, it is not good for you, and if you do it you will also be punished after your death for that.

And some people say, whaaaaaaaat, to stop drink alcohol, no way i dont see any GOd, nobody shall forbidd me to enjoy myself, i do whatever i want. then after some party one night, sitting in car while driving drunk , treeeeee, nooooooo, booooom, DEAD, end of story

or not to talk about violence, rapes, murder, cancer wich also can be done beacuse of alcohol.

that it how it works

Unlike you apparently, most people are capable of moderation when drinking alcohol.

[ciko]

Originally Posted by extremecheese

Thanks for the candid explanation!
However you and I know there's more rules than say just not drinking booze. My question therefore is how are your sins atoned for? are we talking a sacrifice every day? and what is that sacrifice? what makes it worthy etc

However you and I know there's more rules than say just not drinking booze.

YES

My question therefore is how are your sins atoned for?

sins are like black dots on the heart, every time man does a sin , black dot appears on heart (this is simbolic speaking), and every time you honestly repent to God or do good deed this dot disspears from the heart.

So if man do a lot of sins, his hearth becomes totally black, and the his reality becomes disorted, he think that something he do is normal but in fact it is really bad for him, and something he avoid wich is infact is ok for him and good for him.

God forgives sins, and good deeds washed the bad deeds of from the account of deeds.

are we talking a sacrifice every day? and what is that sacrifice? what makes it worthy etc

what kind of sacruifice, if you mean sacrifice time, YES
if you mean sacrifice a lamb, NO

[ciko]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

Unlike you apparently, most people are capable of moderation when drinking alcohol.

i dont drink

most people are capable of moderation when drinking alcohol

but let me clearfy you something

If someone knows how much he cun inject kokain in his veins and be still alive whole life, it does not mean that drugs are ok, and that people shall use it.

If we say like this, you take just a little glas alcohol everyday, and in your mind you know it is ok , to drink alcohol. And on the new year eve, you drink a little more than you use to do, then you get ino a fight on a party and some kill you or you kill him, or beat him.

or should we say, you never become drunk while you drink it, and then you children see you drinkm, and when they get older they say in their minds, when father can do it we can also do it, and then they start to drink alcohol, and then God only know what heppens next.....

In islam, you should not come close to evil.

[extremecheese]

Originally Posted by ciko

YES
sins are like black dots on the heart, every time man does a sin , black dot appears on heart (this is simbolic speaking), and every time you honestly repent to God or do good deed this dot disspears from the heart.

So if man do a lot of sins, his hearth becomes totally black, and the his reality becomes disorted, he think that something he do is normal but in fact it is really bad for him, and something he avoid wich is infact is ok for him and good for him.

God forgives sins, and good deeds washed the bad deeds of from the account of deeds.

That's all well and good, but your problem is that despite earnestly repenting, you still constantly sin, and no amount of work will ever tip the balance - furthermore the work you do to attempt to tip the balance is attributable to pride of self.
Do you see the hopelessness of the situation you are in?

Originally Posted by ciko

what kind of sacruifice, if you mean sacrifice time, YES
if you mean sacrifice a lamb, NO

Depends on how serious you take your sin to be.

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by ciko

i dont drink



but let me clearfy you something

If someone knows how much he cun inject kokain in his veins and be still alive whole life, it does not mean that drugs are ok, and that people shall use it.

If we say like this, you take just a little glas alcohol everyday, and in your mind you know it is ok , to drink alcohol. And on the new year eve, you drink a little more than you use to do, then you get ino a fight on a party and some kill you or you kill him, or beat him.

or should we say, you never become drunk while you drink it, and then you children see you drinkm, and when they get older they say in their minds, when father can do it we can also do it, and then they start to drink alcohol, and then God only know what heppens next.....

In islam, you should not come close to evil.

Like I said: moderation. Also, it's a matter of being appropriate. Using extremes to buttress your argument isn't very logical, as those examples only apply to a small few, if anyone at all.

[hadabusa]

many fought wars in the name of religions, but it was always about money realy.

other than tha religion has held back progress in science.

have you watched planet of the apes?this could have been for mankinds good, holding back some info.

church was main educator at some time too.

this is a simpleton question with many replies, they did some good, some bad, throughout many centuries.

but overall, christianity and islam tell you to eat shit while alive and when you dead, youll be fine.
the jews see this a bit different.

[ciko]

Originally Posted by extremecheese

That's all well and good, but your problem is that despite earnestly repenting, you still constantly sin, and no amount of work will ever tip the balance - furthermore the work you do to attempt to tip the balance is attributable to pride of self.
Do you see the hopelessness of the situation you are in?

Depends on how serious you take your sin to be.

i let God answer this in quran

...O My servants who have transgressed against their own souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Surah az-Zumar 39:53)

and in hadith qudsi

"O son of Adam(means human being), as long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I have forgiven you for what you have done and I do not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky and then you would seek My forgiveness, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins that are close to filling the earth and then you would meet Me without ascribing any partners with Me, I would certainly bring to you forgiveness close to filling it."

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by ciko

i let God answer this in quran

...O My servants who have transgressed against their own souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Surah az-Zumar 39:53)

and in hadith qudsi

"O son of Adam(means human being), as long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I have forgiven you for what you have done and I do not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky and then you would seek My forgiveness, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins that are close to filling the earth and then you would meet Me without ascribing any partners with Me, I would certainly bring to you forgiveness close to filling it."

hey, jesi li ti neki bosanski balija?

sta kazes za sve one muftije u bosni koji su vise radikalni nego sto bosanski muslimani uopce hoce?
svi placeni iz saudi arabie.

jeli mislis to je positivna stvar?

pozdrav

[selig]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

I take it that you do not purchase anything produced in asian sweatshops...

Asking what religion has done for us is missing the point (again) by making humankind the measure of value - and thus trying to measure religion by how humanistic it is.

And the justifications for worshipping books that condone slavery begins...

[ciko]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

hey, jesi li ti neki bosanski balija?:d

sta kazes za sve one muftije u bosni koji su vise radikalni nego sto bosanski muslimani uopce hoce?
Svi placeni iz saudi arabie.

Jeli mislis to je positivna stvar?

Pozdrav

odakle si ti momce :d

[selig]

Originally Posted by ciko

islam was sent during period when slaves where everywhere on earth, and islam gave solution for slaves, it was freedom

Of course it did, and that's why you were only too willing to provide quotes from the quran to back up your claims.

[ciko]

Originally Posted by selig

of course it did, and that's why you were only too willing to provide quotes from the quran to back up your claims.

i have already done it in the other thread "why islam...

I am not going to search it for you again

[selig]

Originally Posted by ciko

i have already done it in the other thread "why islam...

I am not going to search it for you again

I'll do it instead then.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost....postcount=1734

[ferryman to the dead]

Originally Posted by arjuna12

What's your point posting an image of Hitler and a cardinal?
I don't see any Christians in that image.
(this doesn't imply that most Catholics are not Christian by the way)

The idea that Hitler was Christian is absurd! As absurd as saying that George W. Bush is Christian. Just because someone says something... doesn't make it so! (ever heard of the Thule Society?)

The idea that Hitler was Christian is absurd!

Really? Why? Because he killed all those innocent people?

Hitler Was a Christian

The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

[ciko]

Originally Posted by ferryman to the dead

really? Why? Because he killed all those innocent people?

Hitler was a christian

the holocaust was caused by christian fundamentalism:

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

you can not blame christianity beacuse of hitler

like you can not blame islam beacuse of some stupid muslim terrorists