Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Religion
Register FAQ Chat Social Groups Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 13-04-2012, 07:16 AM   #1
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default Christianity and Hypnotic Manipulation

In the third volume of my ‘I Am Christ’ series, I dedicate two chapters to examining hypnosis and NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), as they apply to most, if not all, Christian Church services, at least in one way or another.

In the chapter on Hypnosis, entitled; The Magic of Modern Christianity: Sunday Morning Hypnosis, I discuss the five stages of hypnosis as they relate the average church service.

The following is a small excerpt from I Am Christ; Vol. 3: The Ascension – Understanding, which includes a brief background on hypnosis as well as the second stage of hypnosis.

Hypnosis Misunderstood

Contrary to popular myth, hypnosis is not about turning people into chickens! It is true however, that deep trance hypnosis can dramatically alter one’s perception of reality, in much the same way that meditation, prayer, long term fasting, entrancing religious rituals, or walking for miles in the hot desert. Contrary to the title of this chapter, there is nothing magic about hypnosis. A popular misconception regarding hypnosis is that it involves a sleeping state, in which the subject is covertly forced to adopt thoughts and behaviors which they would otherwise, be adverse to. The trance-state can and usually is, induced via hypnosis while the subject is wide awake; this state is known as the ‘waking trance’ and is the most common form of trance. Under this waking trance, it is unlikely even impossible, that hypnosis alone can cause the subject to think and behave in a manner that is contrary to their moral constitution and established principles. Having said that, when hypnosis is combined with N.L.P (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), it can, and quite often does, result in the changing of a person’s ideas, beliefs and behaviors. Subjects under hypnosis will usually remain acutely aware of their surroundings and may not even know that they are in the hypnotic state. The trance-state induced by hypnosis is a relaxing, slightly altered state of consciousness, which is very natural and commonly experienced by everyone almost every day. Whether we experience it during our favorite TV show or driving down a long stretch of highway, we all go into trance daily and we are seldom aware that we are in this state of slightly altered consciousness. Have you ever been in a daze while being asked questions by someone and you ended up asking them what you had just agreed to? Or have you ever walked into a room to get something and then forgotten what you had to get, once you were in the room? Because trance is a regularly experienced state of mind, it makes it hard to tell when we are going in and out of it. It is familiar to all of us yet, just as the deep sea dweller fails to notice the water around them for the fish and the coral, we take this state of mind for granted.


What is Hypnosis?

Hypnosis is essentially, a mental state**, usually induced by a procedure known as a hypnotic induction. The induction is commonly composed of a long series of preliminary instructions and suggestions.(1) Hypnotic suggestions may be delivered by a hypnotist in the presence of the subject, or may be self-administered ("self-suggestion" or "auto-suggestion").
The words 'hypnosis' and 'hypnotism' both derive from the term "neuro-hypnotism" (nervous sleep) coined by the Scottish surgeon James Braid in 1841. Braid based his practice on the earlier work of Franz Anton Mesmer, whose name is the origin of the word ‘mesmerized’. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, Franz Anton Mesmer developed what is known as "Mesmerism" or "animal magnetism". He was heavily influenced by the earlier work of Father Maximillian Hell, a Catholic Priest, who had been using magnets and prayer to hypnotize subjects and had some success in healing hysterical conditions, such as hysterical blindness and similar psychologically rooted problems.

Contemporary research suggests that hypnosis is a wakeful state of focused attention and heightened suggestibility, with diminished peripheral awareness. (2) This heightened state of suggestibility is the primary focus of both this chapter and the next. What and how intensely can one be manipulated to believe a given proposition, if one is under hypnosis? And more importantly, if one does not realize that they are being hypnotized over and over again; doesn’t this constitute manipulative conduct on the part of the hypnotist(s)? These two questions underscore the following investigation into the magic of Christianity.

The 5 Stages of Hypnosis

A typical hypnotherapy session contains five stages:

1. Introduction
2. Induction
3. Deepening
4. Suggestion and;
5. Awakening.

It is the contention of this author that the same five stages can be found within most Christian church services. The hypnotic techniques employed during church sessions have served to further entrench Christian beliefs into the minds of Christian subjects and so demonstrates the mentally manipulative religious package offered by the Christian religion.
According to professional hypnotists, the subject’s mind must contain four primary criteria in order for the hypnosis to work. The acronym is known in the profession as, B.I.C.E:

1. Belief
2. Imagination
3. Conviction and;
4. Expectation

These elements are generally found in abundance in the mind of the true believing, church going Christian. Generally, those who attend church believe that their pastor or preacher is speaking the word of god, which has very powerful psychological implications and satisfies the first criteria of the list above. Further, the church goer’s imagination is engaged at almost all times throughout the service, during the singing, the sermon, the prayer and it is probably the hardest working aspect of the four criteria set out above. Next, professional hypnotists say that the subject must have conviction and the stronger the better! There is almost nothing in this world that inspires conviction, like one’s religious beliefs. The attendee is convinced that the church service is permeated by the spirit of their god, which leads to the expectation, that they will “feel the spirit.” In truth, the elation one gets from “feeling the spirit” may be little more than the pleasure and catharsis of entering a trance.



Stage 2: The Induction: Removing the Filter

The purpose of the induction stage is to have the subject enter a trance state.
A trance state, as mentioned above, is more often than not a state of consciousness that does not involve deep sleep, or a complete alteration of the mind. It commonly involves a slight, almost imperceptible change in focus and a light feeling of relaxation. Listening to one’s favorite music can often induce trance, along with other activities such as; driving a car, washing the dishes, watching TV and many other mundane daily activities that require little participation from the conscious mind. Once the conscious mind is dismissed from the activity, the subconscious or unconscious mind is opened. Much like a key opening a locked door, the induction stage is primarily concerned with accessing the subconscious mind via trance.

In their book Unlimited Selling Power, Donald Moine and Kenneth Lloyd, discuss the trance associated with everyday activities in the following words:

Self-hypnosis occurs frequently in everyday life and can be found in such diverse activities as day-dreaming, jogging, prayer, reading, listening to music, meditation, or even driving the freeways. Once in the self-induced hypnotic state, suggestibility is greatly heightened. Psychological barriers and defenses are lowered, and the person's unconscious becomes more receptive to new programming. (3)

The trance state is one in which the subject’s subconscious mind is brought to the surface. Subsequently, the subject in trance is more prone to receiving suggestions in a less critical fashion. This is due to the absence of the critically analytical conscious mind, which questions and assesses information upon rational grounds.

As stated by William Hewitt, in his book ‘Hypnosis for Beginners’:

The conscious mind does not take suggestions well. It is most useful for thinking, reasoning and putting into action those things it already knows the subconscious mind, however, is like an obedient slave. It doesn’t think or reason. (4)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.
Colossians 3:22

The subconscious mind has difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality, which is why our dreams seem real at the time. During the dream state, the subconscious or unconscious mind, is not critically evaluating the probability of flying over a house in pink underwear, while being chased by a vicious dog with wings. It is happening now! It is real! It is only when we wake up that we realize it was all just a silly dream. But what happens when we don’t wake up from our subconsciously inspired fictions? This is the dilemma faced by the conscious mind of the believer. One could view the subconscious mind as the gateway to our conscious mind, allowing it to be manipulated in to believing things which it would otherwise see as irrational. Here in lies the power of hypnotic induction, when it comes to changing, molding, or maintaining irrational and unsound beliefs.

The ‘Encyclopedia of Psychology and Behavioral Science’ sums up the effect of hypnotically induced manipulation upon the subconscious mind in the following terms:

Hypnosis appears to diminish the ability to discriminate between fantasy and reality, and of course it involves enhanced responsiveness to suggestions. (5)

Accessing the conscious mind via the subconscious is a little like commissioning a mutiny aboard a ship. The conscious mind is usually the captain, steering the ship and making decisions on behalf of the crew or subconscious, however when the captain or conscious mind is bypassed, the crew is given the power to alter the course of the ship. It is however, the captain alone, who possesses the necessary skills of navigation and engineering and so when the crew is directly accessed and given authority over and above the captain, the ship can be steered in any given direction and this can often result in the ship being steered off course.

I have already spoken about factors that may help induce the trance state such as, the monotonous nature of everyday activities, post hypnotic programming, the environmental impact on our state of mind and melodic music. So now, I would like to focus more on the role of music in inducing trance, as it is a common element in almost all church services and has a tremendous power to illicit an emotional response from the listener.

Music and Trance Induction

Music is an extremely effective instrument for trance induction. Most people can relate to the feeling of listening to music that either inspires or relaxes their thoughts and emotions. Music is designed to engage us at both the conscious and unconscious levels. It can make a person angry, sad, happy, sleepy, or even inspire the listener with confidence before a big event. The famous rock and roll singer, Henry Rollins once said that, he listens to a rap group called ‘Public Enemy’, before he performs, because it “gets him in the right mood”. The military uses it to entrance their soldiers and get them ready for battle and so do nations with their national anthems, which inspire an almost religious feeling in some. Members of the Voodoo religion in Haiti use it to evoke trance states and the religions of antiquity would also use music to invoke the “spiritual experience”.

Left Brain Lyrics and Right Brain Rhythm

It has been said by Psychologists that the left hemisphere of the brain is the dominant hemisphere and is responsible for our conscious mind while our right hemisphere houses our creative, intuitive subconscious and is responsible for interpreting music. Referring once again to the ‘Encyclopedia of Psychology and Behavioral Science’:

The dominant (most often left) cerebral hemisphere is associated with information representation and processing, which is sequential or in series, digital, and abstract. It is characterized by analytical and logical processing that deals with detail. It plays a major role in the processing of verbal information, and in particular digital or abstract linguistic representation. Of the two cerebral hemispheres the dominant one is considered to be involved with consciousness, especially self-consciousness.
The minor (most often right) cerebral hemisphere is associated with information representation and processing, which is simultaneous or in parallel, analog, and holistic. It is characterised by Gestalt, analogical, and integrative processing, which deals with more spatial and global information and with novel (creative) or unfamiliar information. It plays a major role in the processing of naturomorphic or imagistic representations and in particular the processing of nonverbal and emotional information, spatial and pictorial information (symbols), and music and other non-language sounds.
(6)

Therefore music with lyrics could be argued to target the listener’s left and right brain simultaneously. It is possible, that the left brain is being distracted by words and messages, while the right brain is being entranced by the beat and melody of the music.

It is little wonder that songs and hymns have been playing an increasing role in Christian worship, especially ‘Protestant Born Again’, Evangelical and so called Charismatic or ‘New Seeker’ Churches, as these churches lack the awe inspiring architecture of their Catholic counterparts.

In an article posted by the Unity Christian Church, called ‘Suggestions for an Effective Order of Service’, they say:

Music has a powerful ability to move our thoughts and feelings. 80% of our theology is learned in the songs we sing. Songs can be chosen that define and apply structure in the worship service so that congregants are more completely engaged in and inspired by the message of the church’s ministry. (7)
If one is to read this with an adequate knowledge of hypnosis, it becomes apparent that what they are proposing, is a more effective method of completely entrancing and evoking an emotional acceptance of the church’s ministry or suggestions. This is not a technique which seeks to impart a simple and universal truth, it is a technique aimed at overcoming the left brained rational and critical faculties, in order to take over the ship, so to speak!

The Unity Christian Church goes on to suggest the following for an effective service. Please pay particular attention to the amount of music recommended:

Here are some suggestions for music as part of a Sunday service and how to use and place other elements of your service.

1. Prelude music –usually instrumental. Prelude music sets the atmosphere you desire; sacred or upbeat. Usually 5 – 10 minutes while people enter. Prelude can also be used to teach the congregants new songs that will be sung during service. (8)

Notice they recommend the prelude music to “set the atmosphere”, while people enter. As we have already discussed this element of trance induction I will not labor the point any further.

2. Gathering song – Or Invocation. Sung by the music team and the congregation as a call to worship or to bless the space and the service. Usually sung every week, this song can be a church “theme song” about why people enjoy coming there. (9)

The dictionary definition of the word ‘Invocation,’ relates to the use of magic to conjure up spirits from other worlds. It is possible that the invocation is doing little more than having the subject enter into a trance state, so that they perceive spirits, due to the hypnotic induction and suggestion, which is compounded by their pre-established beliefs. Whether or not, we do actually contact god or the gods in this manner, is not the issue and may well be the case, however, I am looking at this phenomena from a strictly psychological point of view. As Carl Jung said; “religion is a psychological phenomenon”. Whether there are more meta-physical aspects to these techniques, is not in dispute here, as there may well be, but then Christians would have to admit that Voodoos, Hindus, Buddhists and all other religions that induce this kind of trance, via invocations, also achieve true contact with the gods!

3. Congregational singing – a mix of classic, and contemporary songs with new, message-oriented choruses sung together by the music team and congregation to support that week’s theme and establish unified presence and energy. (10)

This induction is very clever, as it involves the suggestions that will later be reinforced at the ‘suggestion stage’ or sermon and thus, the congregational singing would have a 2 pronged effect. Firstly, it would induce trance and secondly act as the foundation for repetitious suggestions.

4. Recognizing visitors – this can be done at the beginning of the service as a welcoming. Usually underscored with instrumental music. (11)

Here we have the entanglement of introduction and induction with new comers made to feel at ease and comfortable whilst the beginnings of trance induction are underscored with instrumental music.

5. Lord’s Prayer – many churches still use the Lord’s prayer as a familiar touchstone for visitors and those from other faiths. Unity is a Christian based faith so it is appropriate. There are many versions of the Lord’s Prayer with updated words more appropriate to our theology. The Lord’s prayer can be sung or spoken. It is effective leading into or out of meditation. (12)

Prayer, meditation, Lord’s prayer – contemplative music played under prayer/meditation, Lord’s Prayer can be sung by congregation with music team. (13)

This induction is recommended to occur right before the ‘deepening stage’ of hypnosis or meditation, as it is called. Both prayers and meditation can be used as effective ‘deepeners’ as well as inductions and will be discussed a little later.

6. “Special Music” solo or choir song VERY focused on the ministerial message of the day. Energy is thoughtful and specific. The song can be familiar, but needs lyrical content and musical style carefully chosen to set up the talk. The song can segue into the talk. (14)

Again one is able to see the use of repetition and in this case the music is being cleverly placed as a segue into the talk, which will then repeat the same message. One of the secrets of successful hypnotic induction is the use of repetition. If we are told something over and over and over, we may not necessarily be convinced of its truth. However, if we have a pre-established belief and the repetition is aimed at reinforcing that belief, it will cause the subject to mentally agree with the repeated suggestion, over and over, causing an almost subliminal rhythm based submission. This is what most Christians might call “submitting to the spirit” but in actual fact, it is more than likely, nothing more than, submitting to hypnotic suggestions which reinforce their pre-established belief.

7. Minister’s message – many ministers incorporate the song lyrics into the message or pick up on an idea from the song that was just performed to “embed” the idea more deeply. You may even want to build your message around a great song’s theme or lyrics. (15)

Here they are even using hypnotic language by proposing that the minister’s message repeat the ideas in the song lyrics so as to “embed” the idea more deeply into the mind of the believer. It does not take a genius to figure out that this technique is mental manipulation at its best.

8. “Offering Song” designed to uplift, entertain and remind congregants of the topic of the day. It’s the post-message de-programming, and doesn’t have to include an actual “passing of the plate.” (16)

This is my favorite part of the service. The “hypnotic snatch and grab,” as I call it! In many services, not all, but many, music will be played while the collection plate is being passed around. During which time, the preacher, pastor or minister, will be saying something like “give to god”, “give to Jesus” repeatedly. Well he did suffer immensely and die for you! The least you could do is give him a few dollars, right! The truth is, as shocking a revelation as this might be to some Christians; Jesus does not get the money! With believers already in a highly suggestible state, the peer pressure and repeated suggestion, “give to god” places both conscious and subconscious pressure on the congregant to pay the church money. This element ties back to the theme brought up by Jordan Maxwell regarding Mother Circe bringing men into her abode, hypnotizing them, turning them into pigs and then feeding off them. Of course, not all churches pass around a collection plate, some just have an envelope in front of the pew, so that the church goer can donate anonymously. However, the collection plate is common enough to mention. Furthermore, relating back to the ‘bread of shame’ discussed in chapter 8, the congregants are entertained, given the opportunity to “get to god”, fed with wafers and wine, and so in the spirit of reciprocity, the church goer often feels compelled to give money to their church, lest they breach the compelling ‘norm of reciprocity’.

9. Children – if you are set up for it, parents should drop their children in the classrooms before service. You may allow children to enter with parents and then dismiss the children with a song toward the beginning of the service. (17)

Separating children from their parents is common to most Christian services and achieves two objectives. First, it allows the parents to zone into the service and receive the full undistracted benefits of the hypnosis session and secondly, it replaces the children’s authority figure with a church member who is practiced in indoctrinating children and takes on the role of the child’s teacher. By placing the children in a new or separate environment from their parents, the child can be influenced to a greater degree and when the child goes home, this indoctrination is reinforced by their trusted parents. There is no escape from the belief, the children are given no choice in which belief system they are to adopt, they will become Christians without ever having a chance to assess the truth of that belief for them self.

There are many denominations of Christianity each with their own slightly unique order of service, however there are commonalities between most Christian services and these commonalities are designed to mentally manipulate the participant via trance induction, so that their subjective beliefs about god and the truth never come into question. The above example illustrates some of the typical elements of most Protestant Christian services. As stated by Frank Viola and George Barna:

With some minor rearrangements, this is the unbroken liturgy that 345 million Protestants across the globe observe religiously week after week.' And for the last five hundred years, few people have questioned it.
Look again at the order of worship. Notice that it includes a threefold structure: (1) singing, (2) the sermon, and (3) closing prayer or song. This order of worship is viewed as sacrosanct in the eyes of many present-day Christians.
(18)


1. New Definition: Hypnosis" Division 30 of the American Psychological Association
2. Spiegel, Herbert and Spiegel, David. Trance and Treatment. Basic Books Inc., New York. 1978. Pg. 22.
3. Donald Moine & Kenneth Lloyd. Unlimited Selling Power How to Master Hypnotic Selling Skills. Prentice Hall Inc. (1990) Pg. 204.
4. William W. Hewitt. Hypnosis for Beginners. Llewellyn Publishers. (2003). Pg. 5 .
5. W. Edward Craighead, Charles B Nemeroff. The Concise Corsini Encyclopedia of Psychology and Behavioral Science. 3rd Ed. John Wiley and Sons Inc. Pg. 452.
6. Ibid. Pg. 165.
7. unity.org/.../pdf/SuggestionsforEffectiveOrderofService.doc
8. Ibid.
9. Ibid.
10. Ibid.
11. Ibid.
12. Ibid.
13. Ibid.
14. Ibid.
15. Ibid.
16. Ibid.
17. Ibid.
18. Frank Viola, George Barna. Pagan Christianity. Tyndale House Publishers. (2008). Pg. 85.



So why is this important? Christianity, since its beginnings, has employed various forms of psychological manipulation which is focused on reinforcing the beliefs of passive believers. It demonstrates that religion, as is also the case with politics, is not about truth, but rather, it is about persuasion and manipulation.



The above post is the intellectual property of Michael Sherlock, so if you would like to use any of this information, please either send me a message, or at the very least reference me. I am happy for all to use my research, however, intellectual integrity is very important. Having said that, please feel free to use any of this, keeping the above in mind.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 07:32 AM   #2
knightofthegrail
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsherlock View Post
In the third volume of my ‘I Am Christ’ series,
knightofthegrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #3
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
わかりません (I do not understand)
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 08:22 PM   #4
danceswithbunnies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belly of Beast : 'Murikastan
Posts: 1,621
Default

You might find this book helpful:
MIND OF A BIBLE BELIEVER.
it describes the effects of religious revival in america ..(he was writing the book when the religious right were forming)

And presents the case for the Bible as a Mind Control Device...not simple hypnosis but a carefully crafted form of mindcontrol that no intelligence agency can approach it's efficacy



I am in the process of reading it..

you can find it on amazon..


here is a brief description
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/cohen.htm

.here you can look at it online:

http://www.questia.com/library/book/...nd-d-cohen.jsp
__________________
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it"-Thoreau
----------------------------------------------------
The enlightened Athenians main argument FOR slavery was that reason had to rule over emotion.

Last edited by danceswithbunnies; 13-04-2012 at 08:27 PM.
danceswithbunnies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 08:18 AM   #5
luciferhorus
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Glastonbury, UK
Posts: 4,344
Default

Yes Michael; an excellent analysis.

I have long ago concluded that we are combatting two types of religious fanatic.

1: Those who are suffering from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination and who seek to spread this mind virus to others.

2: Those who are genuinely suffering from a religious form of schizophrenia.

It is my opinion that type 2 is probably descriptive of the the founders and authors of most world religions and cults.

Type 2 is probably beyond salvation (from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination). Type 1 is probably able to awaken at some point and begin the rational process of questioning their faith in a genocidal war god.

This problem is also compounded by "normal" psychological activity. A recent study in Ireland established that about one in 5 Irish children hear voices in their head, and another study showed that this phenomenon occurs in 1 in 20 adults.

If the same study were undertaken with those of us who have experimented with psychoactive substances (LSD, psilocybine, DMT, peyote, etc), I think that probably "all" of such persons (myself included) would probably admit to feeling that some kind of external intelligence was communicating with us. It is quite another matter however to start to "believe" that these are the voices of the gods, rather than just a natural process of thinking; in fact we "all" talk to ourselves; it is called "thinking" and it is a natural process and when we dream at night, we all hear the voices of other persons talking to us; the "visionary" or trance-like state or the psychoactive induced state is much like a waking dream and it is very easy to come to the conclusion that there are intelligences external to us who are communicating with us.

See my essay: "The Evil of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: Contradictory Beliefs and Religous Psychosis. Philosophy and Religion (2011)" on: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=155126

Good to see you contributing here. Bear in mind that when the religious fanatics throw abuse and irrationality at you, take it as a compliment; your essays will remain here and show up in Google searches for many years to come and that we can speak to all nations and peoples from forums such as this and it is not simply a debate with a few fanatics.

Many of your other essays on this forum are very insightful and I wish I had the time to respond to them all at the moment.....later.

Love and regards to you Michael.

Lux

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
Contradictory Beliefs and Religous Psychosis. Philosophy and Religion.

Lucifer 2011

A: Religion.

Let us say, hypothetically that you were a policeman (just for the sake of argument), and that you interviewed a suspect and asked him "Where were you when this murder took place?" The suspect may state "I was in Tokyo." However in the notes from a previous interview he may have stated that he was in New York. This is clearly contradictory; he could not have been in both places at the same time.



The victim of religious hypnosis can hold numerous contradictory beliefs, such as that there are three gods but only one god, or that their god is "love," and that their god is also a genocidal tribalist who wants to kill all other tribes who are not part of his favorite tribe, the Israelites, or that you should love your parents, but also that you cannot be a Christian unless you hate your parents (and your wife, children and even your own life), etc. Chistians might also utilise reason to ridicule people who believe in the incredulous myths of Ganesha (the Hindu elephant god), but they will abandon such rational thinking when it comes to their own faith.



If you look at almost any of the primitive religions of the world and their silly myths, they can be turned into a comedy and ridiculed by we modernists of the age of reason and science; however when a person has been subjected to a lifetime of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, they suspend such rational and critical thinking. This problem is compounded in societies where the "majority" of the population are affected by religious hypnosis and indoctrination; thus the person suffering from religious psychosis is perceived as normal and the person critical of religion is perceved as abnormal, a heretic, a blasphemer or a Satanist.

B: Philosophy.

Understanding philosophical method seems to me to be essential in combatting religious hypnosis and indoctrination.

If a philosopher attempts to hold two contradictory positions, then this is usually pointed out to them by other philosophers as being ridiculous. The difference between the philosopher and the religious fanatic is that the philosopher can appeal only to the highest authority of human intuition and "pure reason." Philosophy essentially teaches us how to "think" for ourselves and how to construct arguments. There is simply no room for philosophy in the world's major religons, since the victims of these religions must simply abandon reason and rely on the ramblings of primitive religious fanatics.

Conclusion Fallacies (false arguments).



One really has to search the scriptures for verifiable historical "facts," and they are very rare.

Generally when non religious historians or scientists come across some fact which seems to verify some Biblical claim, the Biblical fanatics jump on this and use it to present the argument that the Bible must be true.

No scientist that I know of disputes the fact that there was global flooding at the end of the last ice age, so the Biblical fanatics jump on this and conclude "The Bible must be True," and so therefore Jesus really did fuck his mother, and Noah really did put millions of animal and insect species in his little wooden boat, and so on, and so on. This kind of insanity is unfortunately infectious and it has often been instilled since childhood.

If you can make someone believe something ridiculous which demands that they can suspend critical thinking, then it is a "slippery slope" to the point where they can suspend critical thinking about almost anything or anyone.





The Psychology of a Slave. Submission to the Archons (authority figures).

A: The Milgram Experiment.

Unfortunately the conclusions of what is probably the most famous (and important) psychological study on human "obedience," the Yale University "Milgram Experiment (See: Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)" provide conclusive evidence that most human beings are willing to torture other human beings, if they are told by an authority figure to do so, and unfortunately the authors of the Bible are also considered the "highest" authority by Biblical fanatics. In the Milgram experiment the subjects were asked to apply electric shocks to actors who would pretend to cry out in pain; although nobody was really harmed, the subjects did not know that the persons whom they were torturing with electric shocks were actors.



Philosophy is a form of intellectual Anarchism (resistance to authority) which teaches us never to suspend critical thinking. Religion is simply a form of hypnosis and indoctrination which produces a servile, submissive slave; it is the perfect means of social control and the consequences can be genocidal.

The testimonials of children raised in the Hitler youth for example indicate that they did not fight for Hitler because they thought that he was evil, but rather because they thought that he was good; similarly with many of the fanatics of religion whose deities would be considered barbaric and criminally insane by most modern philosophers.

There is a very fine line between accepting what is irrational and inhumane in a text by a religious authority, such as, "It is God's Will to kill all devotees of other gods" and "torture this person."

The Joshua Experiment. The Dangers of Religious Indoctrination



This experiment by an Israeli psychologist is explained in Richard Dawkin's "God Delusion;" it is a very similar experiment to the Milgram Experiment, but it deals ony with "religion," and it is less well known than the Milgram Experiment, but the conclusion is essentially the same, though it applies to "religious authority."

A class room of students in Israel were told the story of Joshua's Biblical holocaust of the Canaanite Tribes. It was essentially a "tribalistic" genocide. The students were then asked if they considered this to be morally justifiable. Most of the students agreed that it was morally justifiable.

The same story was then told about a different occasion of tribalistic genocide which did not involve the Bible or the ancient tribal deity of the Israelites. There are many examples of this in history, such as the recent Rwandan genocide of 1994 which was, just like Joshua's genocide a "tribalistic" genocide. When the students were asked if they considered such a genocide to be morally justifiable, the majority of them expressed the view that it was not.

These experiments show the dangers of religious indoctrination, where people who think themselves to be "good, godly, righteous, moral" are willing to torture people or to support tribalistic genocide just because some Archon (authority figure) tells them that it is OK, and an Archon can be some dead religious fanatic from 1000's of years ago whom most modernists would probably consider to be as ridiculous as the "Life of Brian" prophets, were they not blinded by religious indoctrination. The effects of submission to religious authorities and to the authority of the state are very subtle; probably most of those Israeli students would not consider themselves to be religious fanatics, nor would most of the subjects of the Milgram experiment consider themselves to be psychopaths.

Linguistics 101

Language is a lie. Words are weapons and the tools of mass hypnosis. War is always fought in the name of peace; the peace that follows victory and the defeat of one's enemies. Every war the Americans have fought, every genocide, every military coup seems always to have been justified by the mantra of "peace and freedom."

Peace and Freedom are always defined differently by the slaves and the slavemasters; freedom to a slavemaster is the freedom to keep slaves; "peace" to a slavemaster means that his slaves are not rebelling, and if he whips them and abuses them, he does so to ensure that there is freedom (his freedom to enslave others) and "peace."

Neom Chomsky is not just an Anarchist, he is also a linguist, and linguistics is a very important branch of human knowledge. Language must be clearly defined; two Anarchists speaking of freedom and two slavemasters speaking of freedom are using the same words but their definitions are different.

Of course, I am quite sure that many here understand all this anyway, since this forum is being constantly barraged by religionists who claim to be "good, righteous, loving, etc.," but since it is a public debate, I am just explaining some simple basics of the relationship between language and definition, of philosophy and of the dangers of political and religious indoctrination.


Lux


Last edited by luciferhorus; 14-04-2012 at 08:36 AM.
luciferhorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #6
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
Yes Michael; an excellent analysis.

I have long ago concluded that we are combatting two types of religious fanatic.

1: Those who are suffering from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination and who seek to spread this mind virus to others.

2: Those who are genuinely suffering from a religious form of schizophrenia.

It is my opinion that type 2 is probably descriptive of the the founders and authors of most world religions and cults.

Type 2 is probably beyond salvation (from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination). Type 1 is probably able to awaken at some point and begin the rational process of questioning their faith in a genocidal war god.

This problem is also compounded by "normal" psychological activity. A recent study in Ireland established that about one in 5 Irish children hear voices in their head, and another study showed that this phenomenon occurs in 1 in 20 adults.

If the same study were undertaken with those of us who have experimented with psychoactive substances (LSD, psilocybine, DMT, peyote, etc), I think that probably "all" of such persons (myself included) would probably admit to feeling that some kind of external intelligence was communicating with us. It is quite another matter however to start to "believe" that these are the voices of the gods, rather than just a natural process of thinking; in fact we "all" talk to ourselves; it is called "thinking" and it is a natural process and when we dream at night, we all hear the voices of other persons talking to us; the "visionary" or trance-like state or the psychoactive induced state is much like a waking dream and it is very easy to come to the conclusion that there are intelligences external to us who are communicating with us.

See my essay: "The Evil of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: Contradictory Beliefs and Religous Psychosis. Philosophy and Religion (2011)" on: http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=155126

Good to see you contributing here. Bear in mind that when the religious fanatics throw abuse and irrationality at you, take it as a compliment; your essays will remain here and show up in Google searches for many years to come and that we can speak to all nations and peoples from forums such as this and it is not simply a debate with a few fanatics.

Many of your other essays on this forum are very insightful and I wish I had the time to respond to them all at the moment.....later.

Love and regards to you Michael.

Lux
I read your essay....Wow! Good job. You should keep all you have written in files and eventually think about publishing them.

You are a light. Stay bright.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #7
tnt1
Senior Member
 
tnt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The birth place of wind and water
Posts: 1,250
Default

Mesmer was made out to be a fake and his theories shot down in his time yet today we can see he was obviously onto something with all he did and learned about hypnotic states of consciousness. I've written some on this, brief and not as in depth as it could be but its a topic I find interesting. I've placed that old paper (written in the 80s) on my blog link below for anyone interested. Some of the sources could add to some added here in this thread.
__________________
rabbit hole here
tnt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 06:31 PM   #8
luciferhorus
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Glastonbury, UK
Posts: 4,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsherlock View Post
I read your essay....Wow! Good job. You should keep all you have written in files and eventually think about publishing them.

You are a light. Stay bright.
Oh yes Michael I have hard copies of them and intend to put them up on my website at some point; however I am not interested personally in print publishing.

In the meantime I am quite happy with hosting essays on the David Icke forum; my essays are often repetitively littered with various keywords, as are the images in the essays also littered with hidden keywords which makes the entire essay appear prominent in Google web searches for many topics and I am quite happy with that at the moment.

You might also wish to consider adding images to your essays which have hidden keywords written into them.

Regards

Lux

Last edited by luciferhorus; 14-04-2012 at 07:31 PM.
luciferhorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #9
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
Oh yes Michael I have hard copies of them and intend to put them up on my website at some point; however I am not interested personally in print publishing.

In the meantime I am quite happy with hosting essays on the David Icke forum; my essays are often repetitively littered with various keywords, as are the images in the essays also littered with hidden keywords which makes the entire essay appear prominent in Google web searches for many topics and I am quite happy with that at the moment.

You might also wish to consider adding images to your essays which have hidden keywords written into them.

Regards

Lux
clever.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-04-2012, 07:47 PM   #10
luciferhorus
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Glastonbury, UK
Posts: 4,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsherlock View Post
clever.
Let me put it this way; I just looked at the front page stats on the forum here and at the moment (Sunday evening) there are around 2400 people (who show up as "guests") browsing the forum, and around 180 or so registered users.

Compare that to the dozen or so devotees of the genocidal god of the Bible who regularly fill this forum with their irrational ramblings.

Thus I don't really consider my self to be addressing them; one cannot address evangelical irrationality and arrogance with rationality and expect the irrational to accept the arguments of human reason; thus I rather consider myself to be addressing the masses; the myriads of people who pick up these debates on the WWW.



The war against genocidal religious fanaticism is essentially a form of intellectual warfare; it will take time and education to eradicate this kind of mind virus; however "time" is something we may not have enough of; unfortunately in an age of apocalyptic and nuclear weapons, some of which may be in the hands of religious fanatics, where much of the world's population of Islamic and Christian fantics await an End Times genocidal war, we may simply run out of time.

When arguing with Islamic and Christian fanatics, it is quite clear that the humanists and rationalists always win the arguments, and I think that most of the "crowd" can understand that; however one cannot argue with a militant and genocidal religious fanatic, who believes that it is "God's Will" to exterminate the "sinners" and who is armed with apocalyptic weapons.

Print publishing is of course a good thing to do and a path you have chosen, but I suspect that far more people in the world will come to know of your writings if you feature prominently in public discussion forums such as this one. I have probably a library of some 10,000 non fiction books collected over the years on history, philosophy, religion, esoteric studies, etc., but I hardly even open them now and I hardly ever buy books; this is the age of the Internet and a much bigger library of writings is available on the Internet that I could ever hope to gather in print.

Just some words of encouragement brother.

Lux
luciferhorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2012, 12:46 AM   #11
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
Let me put it this way; I just looked at the front page stats on the forum here and at the moment (Sunday evening) there are around 2400 people (who show up as "guests") browsing the forum, and around 180 or so registered users.

Compare that to the dozen or so devotees of the genocidal god of the Bible who regularly fill this forum with their irrational ramblings.

Thus I don't really consider my self to be addressing them; one cannot address evangelical irrationality and arrogance with rationality and expect the irrational to accept the arguments of human reason; thus I rather consider myself to be addressing the masses; the myriads of people who pick up these debates on the WWW.



The war against genocidal religious fanaticism is essentially a form of intellectual warfare; it will take time and education to eradicate this kind of mind virus; however "time" is something we may not have enough of; unfortunately in an age of apocalyptic and nuclear weapons, some of which may be in the hands of religious fanatics, where much of the world's population of Islamic and Christian fantics await an End Times genocidal war, we may simply run out of time.

When arguing with Islamic and Christian fanatics, it is quite clear that the humanists and rationalists always win the arguments, and I think that most of the "crowd" can understand that; however one cannot argue with a militant and genocidal religious fanatic, who believes that it is "God's Will" to exterminate the "sinners" and who is armed with apocalyptic weapons.

Print publishing is of course a good thing to do and a path you have chosen, but I suspect that far more people in the world will come to know of your writings if you feature prominently in public discussion forums such as this one. I have probably a library of some 10,000 non fiction books collected over the years on history, philosophy, religion, esoteric studies, etc., but I hardly even open them now and I hardly ever buy books; this is the age of the Internet and a much bigger library of writings is available on the Internet that I could ever hope to gather in print.

Just some words of encouragement brother.

Lux
Thanks Lux, love that picture and quote, very funny.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2012, 08:43 AM   #12
luciferhorus
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Glastonbury, UK
Posts: 4,344
Default

Just to point you in a certain direction in your studies, since the theme of your books is the "Messiah" complex.

1: The Messianic Complex as the desire to obtain political power for religious purposes.



"Maschiach" (an approximate transliteration ) would be more accurately translated as "theocratic dictator;" i.e., a religious dictator who will brutally impose Biblical Law and militarily defeat all his enemies. The history of Christianity is littered with examples of this kind of tyrant and of genocidal holy war (demanded by the Bible god), so I will not elaborate. Frankly the only reason that the European population are not longer subjected to "Church courts" and religious laws seems to be because the Christians no longer have the political and miltary power that they once had.

2: The "Saviour Complex"

Many doctors, nurses, philosophers, teachers, academics and benevolent political activists, politicians, humanists, Marxists and atheists (such as Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchins) clearly can be defined as non-sociopathic and human loving (as opposed to loving a genocidal war god or the voices in the heads of the fanatics), caring human beings who wish to help other human beings; this is just part of being a selfless loving human being; it does not mean that they believe that they want to be a Messiah (a religious dictator). You appear to be suffering from this "Saviour" complex yourself in a benevolent way; you will suffer for it, but it is simply because you seem to be a decent human being who seeks to free the minds of others from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination. Just don't start a new religion without me :-). LOL

3: The Messianic complex as a form of Schizophrenia.



Above: Korean Messiah and multi-billionaire arm's manufacturer who has claimed that American will be judged by fire if it does not receive him as Christ (his words and edicts are allegedly to be accepted as law).

This is a common phenomenon which has been studied and observed by psychiatrists, and around 20 to 25% of schizophrenics have a religious form of mental ilness. There are academic and scholarly articles on the Internet about this so I will not ramble on about it. Unfortunately although some of these people end up in institutions, others with exactly the same symptoms go on to become successful in the multi-billion dollar religion business.


Above: Japanese Messiah and apocalyptic militant: Shoku Asahara


In the modern world the person with a "religious "and" political" form of Messianic complex has to usually be elected by the majority of an electorate (and much of the electorate seem to despise religious fanatics, especially in Europe); of course potentially both forms of Messianic complex are dangerous and could possibly lead to a genocidal and apocalyptic scenario, particulary with regards to the Islamic world, where religious fanatics have control of governments and also access to advanced military technology.


With regards to the Krishnamurti video on your website, he seemed to me to be very much an "anti-messiah" who rejected the belief held by others that he was "the" Messiah, and I believe that by his use of the term Messiah, he was not referring to the Biblical defintion of a genocidal political dictator, but to the Saviour Complex ( type 2 above); the responsible, caring, loving human being who wants to create a better world; however it would have to be a better world devoid of the religious fanatics; something that Krishnamurti seemed to well understand.

There is no "Religious Dictator" who can transform Hell on Earth into Heaven by imposing primitive, genocidal and restrictive religious laws; the Christians and Muslims have already tried that and the consequence has been misery and hell on earth.

Further there is no religious schizophrenic who can resolve the problems of Hell on earth.

Part of the problem of course is that the religionists generally have models of a "perfect human being" whom to the psychiatry and judicial profession would fit the model of a genocidally insane religious schizophrenic. That could end up very badly and have genocidal consequences; thus it seems to me that the "Final War" of the "End Times" will have to deal with the "eradication" of organised religion and the mind virus it creates and the disempowerment of religious schizophrenics who hypnotise others as a professional business; others simply do so out of pure evil (like many on this forum) and yet who are deluded and who consider themselves to be saints on the way to heaven in the afterlife.

Most of the regular religious fanatics you will meet on this forum seem to me to be classic type 3's (religious schizophrenics); and probably our most extreme case of this is our "KnightsTemplar" contributor here (aka Moe Bernard of http://www.knightstemplar.tv ) who has no problem with genocidally killing off the various enemies of the Christians (i.e., most of humankind including just about everyone on this forum), and who believes that Christian tyranny will eventually once again be restored, after the Final Holy War where the wheat shall be separated from the chaff. Of course if a Muslim or a Nazi were to express such utterly genocidal and subhuman beliefs, the other Christian fanatics would be hounding them, but when a fellow Christian does this, they have nothing bad to say about him; thus this kind of genocidal Holy War propaganda seems to be acceptable to the Christian propagandists, even if they do not all express such vile beliefs themselves; they are simply programmed to believe that whatever it says in the Bible must be true; thus the Bible god faith is a very dangerous faith and propagating this faith is not at all a victimless crime.

I think that any normal, educated, intelligent, rational, scientific and "ethical (i.e., good in the humanistic sense)" human being who was debating on this forum over the long term would come to the conclusion that the Biblical deity and religion is an utterly diabolically malevolent form of religion; what remains of the Christians here are probably those who are totally beyond any hope of salvation (from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination) and thus are probably types 3's.

Lux

Last edited by luciferhorus; 16-04-2012 at 10:28 AM.
luciferhorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2012, 12:05 PM   #13
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Just to point you in a certain direction in your studies, since the theme of your books is the "Messiah" complex.
Thanks for this Lux. It is not exactly about the messiah complex, but I still found this information interesting, thank you.

Quote:
I think that any normal, educated, intelligent, rational, scientific and "ethical (i.e., good in the humanistic sense)" human being who was debating on this forum over the long term would come to the conclusion that the Biblical deity and religion is an utterly diabolically malevolent form of religion; what remains of the Christians here are probably those who are totally beyond any hope of salvation (from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination) and thus are probably types 3's.
And yet they could be right.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2012, 08:13 PM   #14
chrysalis55
Senior Member
 
chrysalis55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Canada, eh.
Posts: 896
Default

It seems we live a good portion of our lives in a trance. When we become engrossed in our work, go to a play, a movie, watch television or read a book. Have you ever driven from Point A to Point B and can't remember getting there? It's like there is no conscious recollection because we are on autopilot half the time.
chrysalis55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2012, 01:02 AM   #15
michaelsherlock
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysalis55 View Post
It seems we live a good portion of our lives in a trance. When we become engrossed in our work, go to a play, a movie, watch television or read a book. Have you ever driven from Point A to Point B and can't remember getting there? It's like there is no conscious recollection because we are on autopilot half the time.
This is very true.
michaelsherlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:32 AM.