Duality

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by jconnar

If you don't impose your beliefs on a situation that is happening, can it be good or bad?

Yes, because 'good' and 'bad' are absolutes.

The OP seems to deny the existence of God and the Devil and therefore removes 'good' and 'bad', 'light' and 'dark' from their absolute statehood. This, in turn, removes duality, because everything that can be experienced is just a point on a sliding scale, relative only to the individual experiencing it. Individual conscience would then be irrelevant and collective conscience would be non-existent.

In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

There is another way to discard duality: that the physical realm is the product of the Devil (or 'Demiurge' as the Gnostics refer to it), and that the spirit comes from God. God = good/light, Satan = bad/dark. Absolutes. No duality. In this worldview, life has a purpose.

[merlincove]

Originally Posted by iq_145

Yes, because 'good' and 'bad' are absolutes.

The OP seems to deny the existence of God and the Devil and therefore removes 'good' and 'bad', 'light' and 'dark' from their absolute statehood. This, in turn, removes duality, because everything that can be experienced is just a point on a sliding scale, relative only to the individual experiencing it. Individual conscience would then be irrelevant and collective conscience would be non-existent.

In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

There is another way to discard duality: that the physical realm is the product of the Devil (or 'Demiurge' as the Gnostics refer to it), and that the spirit comes from God. God = good/light, Satan = bad/dark. Absolutes. No duality. In this worldview, life has a purpose.

That's an interesting way of looking at the OP

I think that 'good and bad are [only] absolutes' if you make them so.

i don't deny the existence of God, perse, but i ask

Firstly: can enlightenment be achieved by participating in negativity?

And secondly: can Oneness be appreciated while we focus on duality?

And where a 'god' or (perhaps more acutely) a faith assert a belief in an opposing force - and then meet that opposing force with negativity (despite the opposing force generally being perceived as negative) - that circle creates stagnation in ones spiritual growth rather than a blossoming of love and compassion - the cornerstones of purity.

Gandhi said that you can not fight for peace, and yet so many aspects of spirituality (and faith) focus on an expression of negatively charged interactions where one force meets the other - and rather than focus on either force, is it not better to see that both the forces of 'light' and 'dark' are forces of stagnation rather than growth - particularly when we allow ourselves to become bogged down by them?

The OP discusses aspects of spirituality when encountering negativity, do we challenge that negativity and become embroiled by it, or do we allow ourselves the benefit of seeing it as Duality and move on without allowing it to bring us down to its level / interact with it on a lower vibratory frequency?

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by merlincove

That's an interesting way of looking at the OP

I think that 'good and bad are [only] absolutes' if you make them so.

i don't deny the existence of God, perse, but i ask



And where a 'god' or (perhaps more acutely) a faith assert a belief in an opposing force - and then meet that opposing force with negativity (despite the opposing force generally being perceived as negative) - that circle creates stagnation in ones spiritual growth rather than a blossoming of love and compassion - the cornerstones of purity.

Gandhi said that you can not fight for peace, and yet so many aspects of spirituality (and faith) focus on an expression of negatively charged interactions where one force meets the other - and rather than focus on either force, is it not better to see that both the forces of 'light' and 'dark' are forces of stagnation rather than growth - particularly when we allow ourselves to become bogged down by them?

The OP discusses aspects of spirituality when encountering negativity, do we challenge that negativity and become embroiled by it, or do we allow ourselves the benefit of seeing it as Duality and move on without allowing it to bring us down to its level / interact with it on a lower vibratory frequency?

In using 'OP' I was meaning the 'original poster' rather than the 'original post'.

My apologies for claiming that you denied the existence of God; I reached that conclusion from one of your other posts on this thread.

I think that negativity is unavoidable and inescapable in this physical realm, but that it tests us in the spirit (and also in the flesh, but primarily in the spirit). I would say that we need to confront it and overcome it, and that we can do that irrespective of whether we make an 'excuse' (to ourselves) that its source is some entity called 'Duality'.

[merlincove]

Originally Posted by iq_145

In using 'OP' I was meaning the 'original poster' rather than the 'original post'.

My apologies for claiming that you denied the existence of God; I reached that conclusion from one of your other posts on this thread.

I think that negativity is unavoidable and inescapable in this physical realm, but that it tests us in the spirit (and also in the flesh, but primarily in the spirit). I would say that we need to confront it and overcome it, and that we can do that irrespective of whether we make an 'excuse' (to ourselves) that its source is some entity called 'Duality'.

Negativity is surely a test - i have been tested today, somewhat, the aim to draw one into a lower vibration - sometimes it is easy to detach, sometimes it isn't.

i think 'god' in the instance delivered to us through most faiths and church doctrine is a facet of duality, apposed as that 'being' is to an adversary.

But even within scripture we se that 'god' created that adverse force..... i think that 'God' is something much more than 'god.' And i believe that 'God' or the creator force exists outside of the matrix paradigm and the 3d duality construct: but 'god' as an inspired human concept exists within it.

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by merlincove

Negativity is surely a test - i have been tested today, somewhat, the aim to draw one into a lower vibration - sometimes it is easy to detach, sometimes it isn't.

I would agree that the negative force seeks to draw us to a lower vibration or frequency, right down to the very low frequency of the earth itself (the lowest plane). I attribute this negative force to an entity called the Devil.

Originally Posted by merlincove

i think 'god' in the instance delivered to us through most faiths and church doctrine is a facet of duality, apposed as that 'being' is to an adversary.

My opinion is that the religions of the world were designed and built by the same negative force that seeks to destroy us. If this is so, then it would explain why the 'god' of those religions is the very negativity that ensnares the congregations.

Originally Posted by merlincove

But even within scripture we se that 'god' created that adverse force..... i think that 'God' is something much more than 'god.' And i believe that 'God' or the creator force exists outside of the matrix paradigm and the 3d duality construct: but 'god' as an inspired human concept exists within it.

Using scripture itself poses a problem, for what if the scripture has been perverted and corrupted? Other than that, I accept and agree with your view of 'God'.

[merlincove]

Originally Posted by iq_145

I would agree that the negative force seeks to draw us to a lower vibration or frequency, right down to the very low frequency of the earth itself (the lowest plane). I attribute this negative force to an entity called the Devil.

I would say that the Earth is @ a higher frequency than the Devil or Satan (the lower Self of ArchAngel Lucifer) who exists [imho] in the lower 2d realms...... As i feel that the Earth, and indeed all other frequencies up to the Angelic, act as buffers to stop that lower 2D frequency from infecting the higher dimensions...... thouigh the lower the frequency, the more 'able' Satan's ability to interact with that level..... As the energy of Satan is able to manifest within the 3d Earth plane and lower 4thD realms through focused intent from those levels.

This of course is based on nothing more than my own opinion - and my awareness of the Earth healing that shaman's and other healers perform

Originally Posted by iq_145

My opinion is that the religions of the world were designed and built by the same negative force that seeks to destroy us. If this is so, then it would explain why the 'god' of those religions is the very negativity that ensnares the congregations.

Using scripture itself poses a problem, for what if the scripture has been perverted and corrupted? Other than that, I accept and agree with your view of 'God'.

+1

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by iq_145

The OP seems to deny the existence of God and the Devil and therefore removes 'good' and 'bad', 'light' and 'dark' from their absolute statehood. This, in turn, removes duality, because everything that can be experienced is just a point on a sliding scale, relative only to the individual experiencing it. Individual conscience would then be irrelevant and collective conscience would be non-existent.

In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

yeah i sense what you're talking about a lot from a the hard core non duality people. to them its all about the experience of now in the present and god forbid you start talkin about crazy shit like mediation. apparently that takes you away from the now present. its like they get all caught up in how we should experience the experience. and yeah it sounds like they are saying it should only be a "meaningless collection of experiences"

to me the (hard core non dualies) then create divisions in how we should experience the experience. like whether its on a forum, or in person, or on the phone somehow makes a bit of difference in the experience

they forget that there is only the illusion of someone making a mistake in how they experience it correctly.!

there is no division.

no other. and its not just meaningless experiences. we do have creative abilities in how we express the ourselves in the experience.

like maybe we dont just come from infinite love. but were also a vehicle to explore and create. we could be coming from infinite discovery, infinite creativity, and infinite expressions.

[merlincove]

Originally Posted by lonestar

yeah i sense what you're talking about a lot from a the hard core non duality people. to them its all about the experience of now in the present and god forbid you start talkin about crazy shit like mediation. apparently that takes you away from the now present. its like they get all caught up in how we should experience the experience. and yeah it sounds like they are saying it should only be a "meaningless collection of experiences"

But i thought that meditation was all about being in the moment, a perfect expression of being in the moment

Originally Posted by lonestar

they forget that there is only the illusion of someone making a mistake in how they experience it correctly.!

Haha

Originally Posted by lonestar

there is no division.

no other. and its not just meaningless experiences. we do have creative abilities in how we express the ourselves in the experience.

like maybe we dont just come from infinite love. but were also a vehicle to explore and create. we could be coming from infinite discovery, infinite creativity, and infinite expressions.

i think we can experience the experience, and not allow ourself to be trapped by it - or trapped by the illusion, simply viewing it for what it is.

It is not always easy though.

Duality is ok, so long as we remember that it is duality that we are experiencing and don't allow ourselves to be tied up in one aspect or the other - we have a tendency to beat ourselves up (well i do) for expressing or not expressing certain facets of being - for tying ourselves into duality and then punishing the self for not 'rising above' it.... Me'h. Just be.

i love being in the moment, its a massively rewarding experience, though all to often reality drags one out of the moment.....

i think that as long as we are aware of duality and ego - then we can work with them - just so long as we don't attach our self to limiting perspectives

We have emotions, i think it's important not to forget that - and experience experience for experiences sake - we are an expression of our experiences, after all

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by merlincove

i think we can experience the experience, and not allow ourself to be trapped by it - or trapped by the illusion, simply viewing it for what it is.

It is not always easy though.

Duality is ok, so long as we remember that it is duality that we are experiencing and don't allow ourselves to be tied up in one aspect or the other - we have a tendency to beat ourselves up (well i do) for expressing or not expressing certain facets of being - for trying ourselves into duality and then punishing the self for not 'rising above' it.... Me'h. Just be.

i love being in the moment, its a massively rewarding experience, though all to often reality drags one out of the moment.....

i think that as long as we are aware of duality and ego - then we can work with them - just so long as we don't attach our self to limiting perspectives

We have emotions, i think it's important not to forget that - and experience experience for experiences sake - we are an expression of our experiences, after all

nice post. i just mentioned in another thread that something in me wants to make a positive contribution to the world.

but is that just my ego? thats kinda where im at right now. and yeah its not easy.

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by lonestar

yeah i sense what you're talking about a lot from a the hard core non duality people. to them its all about the experience of now in the present and god forbid you start talkin about crazy shit like mediation. apparently that takes you away from the now present. its like they get all caught up in how we should experience the experience. and yeah it sounds like they are saying it should only be a "meaningless collection of experiences"

to me the (hard core non dualies) then create divisions in how we should experience the experience. like whether its on a forum, or in person, or on the phone somehow makes a bit of difference in the experience

they forget that there is only the illusion of someone making a mistake in how they experience it correctly.!

there is no division.

no other. and its not just meaningless experiences. we do have creative abilities in how we express the ourselves in the experience.

like maybe we dont just come from infinite love. but were also a vehicle to explore and create. we could be coming from infinite discovery, infinite creativity, and infinite expressions.

In quoting and commenting on my "meaningless collection of experiences," you have omitted the words which precede this quote: "In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences."

Without the Demiurge there would be no physical universe, and without the Alien God life would have no purpose. In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

We should learn from past experiences and from present experiences and from future experiences, whether those experiences be of our own making or are presented to us. We also need to meditate.

My point was that I believe that there is good and bad in everything, except within the Alien God and the Demiurge; the Alien God being purely light and the Demiurge being purely darkness. I therefore view 'good' and 'bad', 'right' and 'wrong' as being absolutes in some cases (though not all, by any means), rather than relative positions on the sliding scale of duality.

[unicorny]

Originally Posted by iq_145

In quoting and commenting on my "meaningless collection of experiences," you have omitted the words which precede this quote: "In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences."

Without the Demiurge there would be no physical universe, and without the Alien God life would have no purpose. In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

We should learn from past experiences and from present experiences and from future experiences, whether those experiences be of our own making or are presented to us. We also need to meditate.

My point was that I believe that there is good and bad in everything, except within the Alien God and the Demiurge; the Alien God being purely light and the Demiurge being purely darkness. I therefore view 'good' and 'bad', 'right' and 'wrong' as being absolutes in some cases (though not all, by any means), rather than relative positions on the sliding scale of duality.

I used to see things this way, but now i think they are just a series of learning opportunities. Nothing is good or bad it really is just about how we react to it and even how we react to things doesn't have to be in a positive or negative way How i react is probably more a response to how I feel about a situation or event, and I realise that this may be why merlincove says that detatchment is key, it is rare that we enact our "best" response from inside a situation but by detatching you can gain perspective and act from the heart rather than by reflex.
It is the reflex responses often mediated by the conditioned or reptillian brains that display duality imho. I am only at the start of a lifelong journey but I see this as key to becoming more true to myself

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by unicorny

I used to see things this way, but now i think they are just a series of learning opportunities. Nothing is good or bad it really is just about how we react to it and even how we react to things doesn't have to be in a positive or negative way How i react is probably more a response to how I feel about a situation or event, and I realise that this may be why merlincove says that detatchment is key, it is rare that we enact our "best" response from inside a situation but by detatching you can gain perspective and act from the heart rather than by reflex.
It is the reflex responses often mediated by the conditioned or reptillian brains that display duality imho. I am only at the start of a lifelong journey but I see this as key to becoming more true to myself

(Emphasis mine.)

You say that "nothing is good or bad," but let is concentrate for a moment on the World Trade Centre, or the Titanic, or World War I, or WWII. These things did not happen by chance, but were orchestrated. They were not just 'bad', they were evil and there is an evil force/entity behind them.

In transferring blame onto some sort of Duality, we ignore the evil entity.

In like manner, we would also miss the qualities of the Light (God) which, in turn, would mean that we miss the point of everything.

This is how I see it.

[unicorny]

Originally Posted by iq_145

(Emphasis mine.)

You say that "nothing is good or bad," but let is concentrate for a moment on the World Trade Centre, or the Titanic, or World War I, or WWII. These things did not happen by chance, but were orchestrated. They were not just 'bad', they were evil and there is an evil force/entity behind them.

In transferring blame onto some sort of Duality, we ignore the evil entity.

In like manner, we would also miss the qualities of the Light (God) which, in turn, would mean that we miss the point of everything.

This is how I see it.

yeah I know what your saying, they were terrible attrocities but they were also a product of their enviroment, a reflection , greed, power, being in too much of a hurry caused these events.

I dont think there is an evil entity in the same way that i'm not gonna put faith in a god or light being to save me/guide me, I am who I am and I suppose I subscribe to the same view as David, that I am infinte oneness temporarily having an experience called unicorny. I'm not sure I'm expressing my self very well, I find it hard to turn abstract inner concepts into words and sentances

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by iq_145

In quoting and commenting on my "meaningless collection of experiences," you have omitted the words which precede this quote: "In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences."

Without the Demiurge there would be no physical universe, and without the Alien God life would have no purpose. In such a worldview, life becomes a meaningless collection of experiences.

We should learn from past experiences and from present experiences and from future experiences, whether those experiences be of our own making or are presented to us. We also need to meditate.

My point was that I believe that there is good and bad in everything, except within the Alien God and the Demiurge; the Alien God being purely light and the Demiurge being purely darkness. I therefore view 'good' and 'bad', 'right' and 'wrong' as being absolutes in some cases (though not all, by any means), rather than relative positions on the sliding scale of duality.

sorry to mis quote you. but as i work on losing myself i start to wonder who the fuck am i then? whats the meaning?

am i just a puppet?

but then i realize even a puppet is another duality or ego and i (we) come from a lot more than that.

[lonestar]

Originally Posted by unicorny

merlincove says that detatchment is key, it is rare that we enact our "best" response from inside a situation but by detatching you can gain perspective and act from the heart rather than by reflex.

detachment or judgement are tough ones for me. i already failed today!

I judged a women today for driving while she was putting on some make up.

[unicorny]

Originally Posted by lonestar

detachment or judgement are tough ones for me. i already failed today!

I judged a women today for driving while she was putting on some make up.

lol it's not easy is it, but recognising the fuck ups is a good place to start and letting go of the judgement even after the event i think is healthy

[angelsaredemons]

Slipknot - Duality - YouTube

Slipknot - Duality - YouTube

[iq_145]

Originally Posted by lonestar

sorry to mis quote you.

No problem.

Originally Posted by lonestar

but as i work on losing myself i start to wonder who the fuck am i then? whats the meaning?

am i just a puppet?

but then i realize even a puppet is another duality or ego and i (we) come from a lot more than that.

In my opinion, it's not about losing ourselves, but about losing our craving for the negative aspects of the physical universe, whilst at the same time looking inward and attempting to find our real self. I think that this is becoming more and more difficult as we are being bombarded with technology that is evolving at a supernatural rate.

Originally Posted by lonestar

... I judged a women today for driving while she was putting on some make up.

Only one hand, I presume, because she would be on the phone with the other one.

[lighthouse]

Originally Posted by lonestar

sorry to mis quote you. but as i work on losing myself i start to wonder who the fuck am i then? whats the meaning?

The most important question is not who are you, rather what will you be after you are lost.

And you will be free. From good, from bad, from categorizing, judging, free from it all.



It is the path of who are you not, and not making some new you again and again. As if it hasn't been done before numerous times.

[michaelsherlock]

Originally Posted by merlincove

For the longest time people who claim to be spiritually aware have been telling us that there is spiritual war overlaying the physical world: a war between good and bad, light and dark - attention is placed on Angels and Demons, on light-sider / lightsoul versus dark-sider / darksoul constructs.

Some enlightened folk tell us of the battles they fight in the Astral realms, of the epic battles between the forces of light and dark, and even further afield the concepts of good alien races warring with bad alien races for control over certain parts of the 3D Matrix.

Seeing as apparent light-workers experience spiritual attacks i thought it would be a valuable discussion to consider these attacks and discuss their deeper consequence and bearing within their format of growth and / or stagnation of spirit.

Firstly: can enlightenment be achieved by participating in negativity?

And secondly: can Oneness be appreciated while we focus on duality?

i have not really studied the Bible in great depth, though i have a basic understanding of the concepts of the 'war' fought between Archangel Michael and Lucifer - yet Christ walks in the desert with Satan (the lower self of Lucifer) - he does not fight him in the generally accepted precept of 'war' - but instead there seems almost to be an affable connection between the two?

Even though, within that passage, the biblical Christ does not enter battle with Satan, there is still a focus on duality prevalent within the text: one force opposed to another.

This concept finds an ongoing basis within many peoples philosophies as they take their 'sides' through their own perceived purpose.

For many people 'spirituality' has become an 'arena,' and over the years I have lost count of the amount of 'lightworkers' who suffer from being attacked or exposed to negativity by dark forces: many even revel in the battles that are waged within Astral realms, fervently taking up arms to do their bit - and considering that 'spiritually' aware people consider themselves awakened i am continually surprised by their eagerness to enter into such low level attention onto what is a very base level of awareness - war and fighting of battles.

Gandhi said: "An eye for an eye makes the world blind."

John Lennon said: "Give peace a chance."

Credit where credit is due, they were both bang on the money.

You can not find enlightenment, or profess to offer enlightenment while you focus on any aspect of negativity - you can not attain Oneness while you remain focused on duality - the two are not mutually compatible.

If Oneness is the ultimate aim of spirituality, then i wonder why there is such a focus on the opposing extremes of light and dark - the defining aspects of duality?

i think we overlay perceived human values on our understanding of spirituality and the deeper aspects of our being. We create and affix the labels of light and dark from our perceptions of human nature: the human program seems to dictate that we define our perceptive understanding into a diorama of positive or negative accord.

The spiritual world is not the same as the world that we view from our human perspective, so why do we adorn it with the same limitations as we perceive within this 3d reality?

It is hard to escape being human, sometimes

i think from a human perspective it is possible to view duality yet not be snared or entrapped by it: perhaps in a Zen way we can appreciate it by not appreciating it. This is what i am trying to do.

Because we can observe a game as a spectator, but we do not have to play it - and moreover we do not even have to play our life by the rules of that game.



..... the human program seems to dictate that we define our perceptive understanding into a diorama of positive or negative accord.

And this is what keeps us trapped within the Matrix and the human program, limits the growth and expansion of spirit and the evolution of soul on its way back home - which is the aim of the Matrix, to keep us focused on low level concepts.

Duality exists within the matrix construct, because it is the Matrix construct - the 3d reality that our spirit exists within as our hard form.

We seem to confuse ourselves into believing that because our spirit and our human form are entwined, then our physical understandings and physical perceptions of negative and positive are also irretrievably connected to our spirit: this is not the case

When we perceive 'battles' within the Astral, we're actually transferring the concepts of duality which exist within the physical domains into the spiritual domains, we are infecting one arena with our concepts of another.

Duality is purely a matrix phenomena - outside of the Matrix arena duality does not exist: if we wish to escape the Matrix, or be free of it, then we need to release our concepts of duality - this seems the only way that we can embrace Oneness.



While we engage in experiencing duality, through expression of duality, no matter how spiritually inclined we claim to be, we will remain ensconced within the enduring and perpetual nature of duality.

'Light,' and 'Dark,' seem to define their opposites. On an intrinsic level, negativity and positivity are the same thing, they are defined by our perception, beyond that they are nothing more than physically recognised vibrations: it is purely our perception of them as 3d creatures that defines them. Why then do we allow those 3d perceptions to infest our spiritual world?

The 3d programme is a hard one to break, and i fear that we allow our physical programming to infect our perceptions of our spirituality to such a degree that we actually gate-keep ourselves into believing that we are perpetually trapped in 'light' or 'dark' - perpetually participating in duality.

It's difficult to focus on a higher concept sometimes, because to understand spirit, we can not afford to address our understandings with physical concepts.

Fundamentally, there is no spiritual war - the spiritual war exists only in the lower understandings of human nature - in a higher awareness that 'war' is nothing more than a trap to keep one focussed on the lower aspects of being.

The Matrix seems to be a filter for negativity, outside the Matrix there is no negativity, the Agent Smith's of the system (Anunaki, Draconis, reptilians, vampyres, demons, Satan etc) do not exist - they are focused purely on the Matrix arena, to create duality in order to filter negativity - and while we focus upon them, we remain focused within the Matrix and we loose sight of our Highest being (because we are suffering from misdirection - the art of the gate-keepers) and unwittingly, within that focus we become our own gate-keeper: all we have to do is look up a little bit more

Duality or Oneness. It's not a difficult decision.

I really liked this post! It reminds me of my days studying ancient mythology and reading Levi-Strauss, whose whole approach to mythology, was seeing it as something that was essential to mediate duality, to explain it, and to balance it. I really liked this idea, and it also reminds me of the ancient Pythagoreans, who, whenever someone said the number 2 (being a symbol for duality) spat on the ground in contempt of that number.

Great post!