Why have morals if God/Nature has no morals?

[chockimon]

Thanks! That's good to know.

During my experience, the most bizarre thing I noticed straight away was that there was no negative emotional baggage whatsoever, nothing but positivity & serenity, which was unexpected, especially considering I was suffering from depression at the time. It appears to me that all the emotional baggage you accumulate throughout your life stays within your physical body when you leave it.

Back on topic!
In regards to nature having no morals. it may sometimes appear that way, simply because animals need to kill for food and that's one law none of us can escape. At least some predators such as cats, whales & dolphins show their prey mercy, if you can call it that, as they suffocate or drown the victim before eating it. It certainly beats being eaten alive.

[skaff]

Originally Posted by andyh

Why would we ALL have a similar level if it was a product of natural evolution?
Surely you know that natural evolution had quite divergent species at any one time?

With emphasis on the 'at one time'. Evolution does have a diverse origin but finds a level that works for the survivng species through trial and error. That is why i suggest that, by now a reasonably even keel would have existed.

Unless you are suggesting that our own natural evolution is still at an early stage? Another thread starter perhaps!

[eggs of satan]

exactly god is both good and evil.

accept things as they are and live life in a way that makes u happy.

[hadaka_jimmy]

There's something innate in the righteous human brain that knows instinctively what is right and what is wrong. We don't need religious law or human law to know this.

Some people are so base and banal that they know nothing but feral desire and violence. These people need to be controlled for the good of the whole.

[andyh]

Originally Posted by skaff

With emphasis on the 'at one time'. Evolution does have a diverse origin but finds a level that works for the survivng species through trial and error. That is why i suggest that, by now a reasonably even keel would have existed.

Unless you are suggesting that our own natural evolution is still at an early stage? Another thread starter perhaps!

Nature is constantly changing and evolving, there is never an 'even keel' or 'stability' except from the limited time perspective of human beings.

[302bluefog]

Originally Posted by hadaka_jimmy

There's something innate in the righteous human brain that knows instinctively what is right and what is wrong. We don't need religious law or human law to know this.

Some people are so base and banal that they know nothing but feral desire and violence. These people need to be controlled for the good of the whole.

I do agree with this, but sometimes I think some people are so animalistic they really don't know right from wrong in a human sense...

[skaff]

Originally Posted by andyh

Nature is constantly changing and evolving, there is never an 'even keel' or 'stability' except from the limited time perspective of human beings.

On a microbiological level yes. Behavioural changes possibly. Environmental changes definitely.

However, i believe you are suggesting that all animals are fundamentally changing all the time. Tell that to the crocodile or Ceolocanthto name but a couple.

Our existence is indeep a drop in the ocean in the evolution of the planet (apologies for the bombshell creationists!) but we have been around long enough to see that there are animals living now that are unchanging. That is natural evolution. If circumstances change and the creature changes it is then no different to the morality of an individual being affected by a change of social circle.

[andyh]

Originally Posted by skaff

On a microbiological level yes. Behavioural changes possibly. Environmental changes definitely.

However, i believe you are suggesting that all animals are fundamentally changing all the time. Tell that to the crocodile or Ceolocanthto name but a couple.

Our existence is indeep a drop in the ocean in the evolution of the planet (apologies for the bombshell creationists!) but we have been around long enough to see that there are animals living now that are unchanging. That is natural evolution. If circumstances change and the creature changes it is then no different to the morality of an individual being affected by a change of social circle.

'except from the limited time perspective of human beings'

You completely ignored that bit by the looks

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by wwu777

Some deep but terrible questions:

Why do humans always need to do what's right and moral, when God and Mother Nature have no morality at all? Mother Nature kills countless animals, insects and plant life every second. And God allows wars, famines, poverty, disease, hunger, greed, and evil to kill people everyday. He does nothing to stop it. He lets evil people prosper and good people die young. He allows the strong to take advantage of the weak, and the "might is right" principle to rule the world. So if God himself has no morals, why must humans? How can there be any "universal morality code" if God or Mother Nature doesn't follow it? It's a terrible question, I know. Nothing makes sense in this world or life. But for crying out loud, stop pretending that there is some absolute "divine moral code" that exists for all creation.

Well, there's no evidence that that sort of god exists or that there is any sort of absolute, universal moral order. There just isn't.

I think morality is ultimately meaningless, and is always relevant. I'm more concerned with ethical behavior. Laws - religious or secular - are simply meant to restrain our more anti-social animalistic tendencies and foster group cohesion so that civilized societies may exist.

[grakkus]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

Well, there's no evidence that that sort of god exists or that there is any sort of absolute, universal moral order. There just isn't.

I think morality is ultimately meaningless, and is always relevant. I'm more concerned with ethical behavior. Laws - religious or secular - are simply meant to restrain our more anti-social animalistic tendencies and foster group cohesion so that civilized societies may exist.

I suppose you like to believe that morality is meaningless so that your sort can sacrifice babies without feeling too bad.

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by grakkus

I suppose you like to believe that morality is meaningless so that your sort can sacrifice babies without feeling too bad.

What is "my sort", in your delusional brain? Are you thinking of Satanists? If so, then I can't think of any Satanic child murderers. I can think of a number of Christians that enjoy abusing children. Child abuse is sanctioned in their "holy book", after all.

You know nothing of who I am or "my kind", and your vapid, cartoonish stereotypes are a load of rubbish.

[andyh]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

What is "my sort", in your delusional brain? Are you thinking of Satanists? If so, then I can't think of any Satanic child murderers. I can think of a number of Christians that enjoy abusing children. Child abuse is sanctioned in their "holy book", after all.

You know nothing of who I am or "my kind", and your vapid, cartoonish stereotypes are a load of rubbish.

You might want to reconsider saying that morality is meaningless then.

Laws are meaningless perhaps but not morality imho.

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by andyh

You might want to reconsider saying that morality is meaningless then.

Laws are meaningless perhaps but not morality imho.

Morality is meaningless to me, since it is subjective and usually is tied into religion, at least in the way we generally define morality in the West. It's a complicated subject.

I'm more concerned with ethical actions as I believe I said before, but apparently that part was skipped over in the rush to judgment.

[tenzingnorgay]

Originally Posted by kaiser

<lurk/>

Morals are a collection of human constructs, god and nature are also consturcts of the human mind.

Morals do not exist.

God does not exist.

Nature does not exist.


Except in our fantastical minds

<lurk>

+1

[andyh]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

Morality is meaningless to me, since it is subjective and usually is tied into religion, at least in the way we generally define morality in the West. It's a complicated subject.

I'm more concerned with ethical actions as I believe I said before, but apparently that part was skipped over in the rush to judgment.

Well..I don't define morality as having anything to do with religion.
Although I can understand why you would think so.

I personally associate morality with ethics, grakkus might have also done so if he's not religious hence the misunderstanding I reckon.

I don't believe you have to be religious at all to have morality and/or ethics, simply a decent upbringing and continued liberal education in life.

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by andyh

Well..I don't define morality as having anything to do with religion.
Although I can understand why you would think so.

I personally associate morality with ethics, grakkus might have also done so if he's not religious hence the misunderstanding I reckon.

I don't believe you have to be religious at all to have morality and/or ethics, simply a decent upbringing and continued liberal education in life.

Everyone has some from of morality/ethics. I just view it as too subjective to have much inherent meaning.

No, I'm pretty sure grakkus is just using my avatar as an opportunity to be a trolling ass.

[andyh]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

Everyone has some from of morality/ethics. I just view it as too subjective to have much inherent meaning.

No, I'm pretty sure grakkus is just using my avatar as an opportunity to be a trolling ass.

If only the bible consisted of a single sentence on a single page:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

They could've skipped the rest and saved themselves a lot of hassle

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by andyh

If only the bible consisted of a single sentence on a single page:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

They could've skipped the rest and saved themselves a lot of hassle

I can agree with that.

[that one guy]

I figured it just came from empathy, which comes from the emotional part of the brain. Just a little mechanic to keep us from killing everything and everyone, not that people don't become detached from it.

My theory--or I guess it's best called a hypothesis--is that empathy is the most important part of the emotional brain and that all emotions are there to tell us not just how we feel but how others feel as well.

Furthermore, all societies are started from scratch on morality and it's totally up to each society to chisel in their own morals. Sometimes this "morality" is based on empathy, while sometimes it completely neglects empathy among other things. The latter is where the psychological problems tend to begin - psychopathy among them.

Don't worry, it's not permanent. We'll either blow ourselves up or, hopefully, everything will be a-okay.

Oh, and don't forget to take the thinking brain into consideration as well.

[grakkus]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

Morality is meaningless to me, since it is subjective and usually is tied into religion, at least in the way we generally define morality in the West. It's a complicated subject.

I'm more concerned with ethical actions as I believe I said before, but apparently that part was skipped over in the rush to judgment.

If morality is meaningless then Christians abusing children is just fine in the grand scheme of things.

And you can't think of any satanic child sacrifices? Don't make me laugh. Most dumb satanists are clever enough to realise that their repugnant actions need to be done in secret, but evidence surfaces of their disgusting behaviour all the time.

Where did you get the idea that I'm a Christian? Maybe it's you that's delusional. It wouldn't surprise me.