real sovereignty being put to the test NOW

[rob menard]

Originally Posted by jon galt

or it could be essential to a fair legal system. ask your self this, if uk law is so corrupt, why if i am accused of a crime, will the state pay the fees of any lawyer i choose to defend me?

BECAUSE THEY STILL GET PAID!!!!
One more lawyer sucking revenue from the State....
That to them is a win!
And they get some to think that because they are willing to do that, they are not corrupt or stealing from the state.

Will the judge, clerk and police officer pay that lawyer, or do they just invite him to feed from the same trough they are gorging themselves on?


Sheesh talk about OBVIOUS!

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by rob menard

BECAUSE THEY STILL GET PAID!!!!
One more lawyer sucking revenue from the State....
That to them is a win!
And they get some to think that because they are willing to do that, they are not corrupt or stealing from the state.

Will the judge, clerk and police officer pay that lawyer, or do they just invite him to feed from the same trough they are gorging themselves on?


Sheesh talk about OBVIOUS!

but as accused i will never pay court costs , which is the basis of your argument. to a defence lawyer it very important that they win, who goes to a defence lawyer that does not win any or much cases?

[seamus]

If you're not going to pay attention to whom is addressing you, why bother playing? It was my argument about the court costs, not Rob's.

And you're not going to get a jury trial over a civil infraction ticket. You will be summarily fined.

But Rob did make a good point about the lawyers, judge, clerks, et al continuing to get paid. Keeping the machine pumping is its own payoff for them. There really need be no other reason. Therefore, your objection is invalid.

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by seamus

If you're not going to pay attention to whom is addressing you, why bother playing? It was my argument about the court costs, not Rob's.

And you're not going to get a jury trial over a civil infraction ticket. You will be summarily fined.

But Rob did make a good point about the lawyers, judge, clerks, et al continuing to get paid. Keeping the machine pumping is its own payoff for them. There really need be no other reason. Therefore, your objection is invalid.

you are not the only person in the discusion,

[seamus]

Originally Posted by jon galt

you are not the only person in the discusion,

so, you felt it was helpful to keep things clear to quote Rob and then say "but as accused i will never pay court costs , which is the basis of your argument", when Rob had never said that? You're really reaching, aren't you? Just can't bring yourself to type "oops". That's about what I would expect from someone trying to debunk the idea of the equality of all men: sloppy thinking and an itchy ego.

[jon galt]

Rob has said many times the purpose of courts is to extract money from people. You seem pissed this was not quite the earth shattering news you wanted it to be, think years from now freemen the world over will be quoting this landmark case involving two alpacas and your alleged dogs,

[seamus]

Originally Posted by jon galt

Rob has said many times the purpose of courts is to extract money from people. You seem pissed this was not quite the earth shattering news you wanted it to be, think years from now freemen the world over will be quoting this landmark case involving two alpacas and your alleged dogs,

Excuse me, but, um....


???????????????????

[micklemus]

Originally Posted by rob menard

BECAUSE THEY STILL GET PAID!!!!
One more lawyer sucking revenue from the State....
That to them is a win!
And they get some to think that because they are willing to do that, they are not corrupt or stealing from the state.

Will the judge, clerk and police officer pay that lawyer, or do they just invite him to feed from the same trough they are gorging themselves on?


Sheesh talk about OBVIOUS!

But thought you believed courts were profit making centres?

You're now saying that all these evil lawyers are taking money from the state.

Which is it to be?

If you're still in the former camp, what about the position with civil litigation - two private fee-paying parties, dispute between themselves, nothing to do with fines or anything. What's the money-spinner for the court in that one?

Going back to the criminal side, am I right in thinking that you don't believe that the provision or availability of legal representation in criminal matters has anything to do with the right to a fair trial? I'm just checking, purely for the avoidance of any doubt.

Also - and again for the avoidance of any doubt - are you saying that lawyers and judges shouldn't be paid or something?

[seamus]

I've noticed something just now. This is not particularly about the above post, so don't take this as aimed at you. But I have just noticed that "this generation is like children crying in the square, 'We played you a tune, and you did not dance. We sang you a dirge and you did not mourn.'" In other words, no matter what happens as a result of my proactive claim of self-ownership, there will be people who will call the significance of those consequences into question. As long as there are free-thinking individuals, there will be those who hate their freedom. So, I will probably not be here much longer. I'm getting the feeling I've accomplished what I came here to do, and now that no one is openly challenging my status, it gives us all stuff to think about. I learn a lot through these sessions. It's almost like channeling, or at least what I've heard channeling is like. We'll see how the threads I'm involved in work themselves out.

[reverendjim]

Originally Posted by seamus

I've noticed something just now. This is not particularly about the above post, so don't take this as aimed at you. But I have just noticed that "this generation is like children crying in the square, 'We played you a tune, and you did not dance. We sang you a dirge and you did not mourn.'" In other words, no matter what happens as a result of my proactive claim of self-ownership, there will be people who will call the significance of those consequences into question. As long as there are free-thinking individuals, there will be those who hate their freedom. So, I will probably not be here much longer. I'm getting the feeling I've accomplished what I came here to do, and now that no one is openly challenging my status, it gives us all stuff to think about. I learn a lot through these sessions. It's almost like channeling, or at least what I've heard channeling is like. We'll see how the threads I'm involved in work themselves out.

almost like channeling.....
yes, its like talking to the dead here...seriously

[seamus]

Originally Posted by reverendjim

almost like channeling.....
yes, its like talking to the dead here...seriously

well, the difference is that I recognize the information as coming from another or other aspects of myself.

[micklemus]

Originally Posted by seamus

I've noticed something just now. This is not particularly about the above post, so don't take this as aimed at you. But I have just noticed that "this generation is like children crying in the square, 'We played you a tune, and you did not dance. We sang you a dirge and you did not mourn.'" In other words, no matter what happens as a result of my proactive claim of self-ownership, there will be people who will call the significance of those consequences into question. As long as there are free-thinking individuals, there will be those who hate their freedom. So, I will probably not be here much longer. I'm getting the feeling I've accomplished what I came here to do, and now that no one is openly challenging my status, it gives us all stuff to think about. I learn a lot through these sessions. It's almost like channeling, or at least what I've heard channeling is like. We'll see how the threads I'm involved in work themselves out.

LOL!

With that much ego, your path to enlightenment might be longer that you think. It looks like it's just around the corner doesn't it? When you get to the corner you will see a long and winding road ahead.

Tip: focus a little less on how brilliant you are at breathing and a little more on the magic of life that each breath is giving you.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by micklemus

LOL!

With that much ego, your path to enlightenment might be longer that you think. It looks like it's just around the corner doesn't it? When you get to the corner you will see a long and winding road ahead.

Here's where I'm supposed to feel bad, right? Bzzt! Wrong! The road has no end, and I feel pretty good about having gotten that much figured out. Enlightenment? No such thing, when you talk about it as if it were some sort of end-point. There is no end point.

Tip: focus a little less on how brilliant you are at breathing and a little more on the magic of life that each breath is giving you.

If I wanted tips on whatever it is you're giving tips on, this thread would have been entitled "How can I ..?". But that's not the title, is it?

Of course I have a lot of Ego (ego=personality), but at least I know what it's for. Self-satisfied? A bit. I can live more freely now with the experience of standing for what I believe in and being supported by the universe in it.

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by seamus

I submit for your perusal, the way out of corporate control: (actually A way, since there are more than one)
http://www.roage.com/default.aspx?PageID=208

I have used a document very similar to this to notify my county's District Attorney (has to be an elected one, not appointed) that I am a sovereign, and that I am not to be bothered with corporate rules. I also gave the D.A. specific instructions to enter it into the public record, since both the courthouse and the county recorder were at a loss as to how to enter something into record that did not have to do with an ongoing court case (commercial chicanery) or a claim on real property of some sort (more commercial chicanery). Since I received no rebuttal within the allotted time, and an undisputed affidavit stands as truth in commerce, they have nothing to say to me about any aspect of how I live my life, provided I infringe upon the rights of no other real man. The only official who can address me on the real level is the Sheriff, and then only in matters of dispute between me and another human being.

In other words, I hold real proof of valid claim.

This is currently being put to the test in my county, as I have just come from discharging two 500-dollar citations from the county concerning a couple of dogs that were under my care who got loose in the night and killed 2 other animals belonging to a neighbor. I am dealing with the neighbor on the private side, and am not allowing the County to extort money from me for a fictional "violation".

I'll know when my assigned court date passes, (dec. 6) whether my letter(s) was/were taken seriously. Here's the text of the letter I sent the D.A. less than two hours ago:

I am in a very advantageous position, as I have nothing against which a lien can be placed, nor do I have any attachments to any particular way of my life script working out. In other words, I'm a man with nothing to lose. Muahahahaa!

lol, did they reply to that?


you think sending this letter makes it legally binding for them?

you think they give a fuck?

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by seamus

No way, dude! States are far too complicated. It's much more like... "I'm the son of God, why do you think you have authority over me?"

oh dear

[reverendjim]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

oh dear

i am thinking that maybe you dont realize that seamus is refering to a comment i made about arayder.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

lol, did they reply to that?

Yes. First I got a letter from the D.A., in which he addressed me as "Dear Sir" (NOT "Dear Mr. Farley", as "mister" is the title of a warrant officer in the navy.), wherein he explained to me in very polite terms the fact that it is not his office that deals with civil matters, so he forwarded my letter to the office of the County Counsel, who then wrote the memo to the Judge (with me as a CC recipient), who removed my court appointment from the docket.

you think sending this letter makes it legally binding for them?

I am not attempting to bind anyone, legally or otherwise. I am simply giving notice that I exist solely outside of their jurisdiction. Thus, I have done them the courtesy of explaining that I am not bound by THEIR letters and words.

you think they give a fuck?

That is entirely irrelevant, but I believe that they do, judging from the response I got.

[arayder]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

lol, did they reply to that?


you think sending this letter makes it legally binding for them?

you think they give a fuck?

Exactly. It’s really that simple.

If the local law doesn’t really care about seamus one way or the other then seamus has to re-evaluate his self assigned status as the brave thorn in the side of the evil government.

If the poor boy ever got the notion that the next time the authorities might just as easily throw the book at him and make stick it might be too big a shock to his system.

[micklemus]

Originally Posted by seamus

here's where i'm supposed to feel bad, right? Bzzt! Wrong! The road has no end, and i feel pretty good about having gotten that much figured out. Enlightenment? No such thing, when you talk about it as if it were some sort of end-point. There is no end point.
If i wanted tips on whatever it is you're giving tips on, this thread would have been entitled "how can i ..?". But that's not the title, is it?

Of course i have a lot of ego (ego=personality), but at least i know what it's for. Self-satisfied? A bit. I can live more freely now with the experience of standing for what i believe in and being supported by the universe in it.

q.e.d

[seamus]

Originally Posted by micklemus

q.e.d

What was your purpose in saying this? (don't bother translating, i want to know why you said it)

ETA: I wish you would change your avatar, you've already got me (and I'm guessing many others) feeling subconsciously that Christopher Guest is an asshole. He might well be, but it's not your job to spread that impression. Now, now... don't whinge about it... Man up. And don't bother telling me the same thing about me, because whatever else you might think, Shiva has always been a bit of an asshole (as are all the elder gods). But at least he stood up for his girlfriend.