Do you agree with "holocaust denial" laws?

[tinyint]

No need to say more, plain and simple question.

In my opinion, such laws are hypocritical farce for self proclaimed "free and democratic" countries. A bad joke, like medieval inquisition requiring you to believe the earth is a disc or be burnt.

[theabominablephenomenon]

No.
But I disagree with holocaust deniers.

[ragnarok]

Haven't we been down this road? I'm sure I recognise that tree.

[tinyint]

Originally Posted by ragnarok

Haven't we been down this road? I'm sure I recognise that tree.

All over Europe, except for Spain since June 2011.

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Wikipedia (Thumbnails)
Wikipedia (Thumbnails)

Spanish constitutional court decided that its is unconstitutional to have thought crime laws in place.

The Israelis already poisonously protested.

Hate crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hate crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hate crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[the rational thinker]

Originally Posted by theabominablephenomenon

No.
But I disagree with holocaust deniers.

Originally Posted by ragnarok

Haven't we been down this road? I'm sure I recognise that tree.

[arcyclus]

Originally Posted by ragnarok

Haven't we been down this road? I'm sure I recognise that tree.

That's the tree you squatted down to pee on, right?

[shauneroo]

No, and I don't agree with any laws that try and legislate what people can think and/or say.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

People should have the right to express there beliefs on any subject even if there wrong.

[dubmeup]

Originally Posted by freeyourmindfreeyourself

People should have the right to express there beliefs on any subject even if there wrong.

X many. I'd rather have someone's views out in the open and on the debating table than locked away above some pub on Charring Cross Road if you catch my drift.

[tinyint]

Originally Posted by shauneroo

No, and I don't agree with any laws that try and legislate what people can think and/or say.

Its more than that, it is also used to suppress free science, as scientists, fully qualified experts drafted by the govt get imprisoned as well!

http://www.germarrudolf.com/

Just read on the inquisition. Outrageous in 2011.

[yourot21]

Denying the holocaust is a hate crime and supporting the Nazi fascist apartheid of Europe is worse.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Originally Posted by yourot21

Denying the holocaust is a hate crime and supporting Nazi fascist apartheid's is even worse.

Wheres the hate if you honestly belive what your saying and think your righting history for humanity? Wheres the hate? Sounds more like love even if the person is wrong if there belief is honest wheres the hate

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Dont get me wrong I am against people who lie and deceive people, but people who express a honest belief and show supporting evidence I have no problem with.

What next climate change denial will become a hate crime against mother earth and humanity

How about not beliving the official story of 9/11 that under this logic could become a hate crime.

[the rational thinker]

Originally Posted by yourot21

Denying the holocaust is a hate crime.

You are very poorly educated if you genuinely believe that.

[yourot21]

Originally Posted by the rational thinker

You are very poorly educated if you genuinely believe that.

Why are you denying the fact that your country is controlled by evil non Jews.
Your denying all the evidence because of your racism towards Jews.

Arab Genocide on the Black African Tribes of Sudan

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[tinyint]

Germans planned and perpetrated the holocaust.
We must confront this facts and accept our guilt and the responsibility that results from it.

Brigitte Zypries, "Justice" "Minister"

Outrageous.

On January 14th 2008 the persecution of those Europeans who dare to question the official version of their continent's history was significantly increased.

German lawyer Sylvia Stolz was jailed for three and a half years after being convicted of several offences related to her representation of clients including the Canadian publisher, artist and pacifist Ernst Zündel.

Several of the charges related to the notorious Section 130 of the German Penal Code. This originally dealt with Volksverhetzung - incitement to racial hatred or violence - but has been extended (notably in 1994) effectively to criminalise any "denial" of aspects of Holocaust history.

Sylvia Stolz and her attorney Ludwig Bock attempted to challenge the constitutionality of Section 130, since it appears to contradict the guarantee of free expression enshrined in Germany's Basic Law of 1949.

They also made numerous attempts to introduce evidence which would show that there is a legitimate debate about many aspects of the well known allegation that National Socialist Germany carried out the mass extermination of six million European Jews.

This particular period of history is given a unique legal protection under the label Offenkundigkeit ("manifest obviousness"), making it immune from the normal process of sceptical historical enquiry.

Each and every attempt to raise such questions was ruled out of order by the Mannheim court, which seemed determined to convict Sylvia Stolz from the outset of the trial, and to exclude any evidence which might challenge such a preordained verdict.

<...>
Most unusually for this type of case, Sylvia Stolz was taken into custody immediately after the sentence, rather than remaining free on bail pending appeal. This could be seen as yet another example of the authoritarian German state seeking to make an example of a lawyer who acted too much in defence of her clients.

http://www.tellingfilms.netne.net/news-stolz.html

Attorney Grossman calls for the Chinese style Internet censorship

The prosecutor Andrew Grossman, who also ensured that Ernst Zundel was kidnapped from the United States, tortured in Canada before he was deported to FRG, where he was put on trial because of doubts about the official Holocaust historiography, called in an interview with the "taz" for censorship of the Internet, following the example of dictatorial regimes. Grossman said," The policy needs to take more Internet service providers to account. The providers must be legally oblige , to block or completely remove from the net Websites with anti-Semitic and inflammatory content "

In contrast to countries such as China, which is criticized worldwide for its handling of dissidents, the Federal Republic was, however, already a step further, state authorities invaded Internet service providers and seized servers, where the anonymity software TOR ran (see also: Federal Republic as vanguard in the fight against the data protection).

Grossman praised himself in the interview, saying that he had succeeded to accuse the "high-caliber Ernst Zundel", because "we as a democratic society" could not want that "people like Zundel can proclaim their Holocaust theses on any marketplace." The big man shows very clearly what he and his ilk understand with the believe in freedom, as that "most free state on German soil" claims for themselves.

http://www.nonkonformist.net/973/sta...schem-vorbild/

We long have overtaken China here.

"Attorney" Grossmann is chief prosecutor in Mannheim, headquarters of the inquisition. All political show trials are held in Mannheim.

He who goes to court or sea needs God’s help, but not even God can help someone caught in a political trial.

- Dr. Siepmann, Munich

One video, the only one I will post on this thread, since Youtube and other portals keep removing or country blocking this one.
It is very well researched, in my view objective.

Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid? — Updated & Revised on Vimeo

Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid? — Updated & Revised on Vimeo

Vidéo Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid? - March 22, 2011 de mirrorthis2010 (Actualité - mirrorthis2010) - wat.tv

Vidéo Holocaust, Hate Speech & Were the Germans so Stupid? - March 22, 2011 de mirrorthis2010 (Actualité - mirrorthis2010) - wat.tv

I would like to ask people to watch this video, as it is proof in itself for censorship.

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=164725

[tinyint]

Originally Posted by freeyourmindfreeyourself

Dont get me wrong I am against people who lie and deceive people, but people who express a honest belief and show supporting evidence I have no problem with.

What next climate change denial will become a hate crime against mother earth and humanity

How about not beliving the official story of 9/11 that under this logic could become a hate crime.

Mahler has faced numerous charges in German courts. In 2003 he was also charged with Volksverhetzung in connection with statements he made regarding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States -- he told the court that the incident was a concocted conspiracy and "it is not true that al-Qaeda had anything to do with it."[16] He was also charged for Holocaust denial under the Volksverhetzung law in 2004 in connection with his role in the VRBHV. In 2006 his passport was revoked by the German authorities to prevent him from attending the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust in Tehran, Iran, a conference identified with Holocaust denial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Mahler

Interesting bio, this man, and I don't necessarily agree with him politically.
In fact he said it was an inside job.

On March 19, 2009 Mahler's wife, the former university teacher and lawyer Sylvia Stolz, was also convicted and imprisoned for Holocaust denial, and for her claims that a "Jewish foreign power" ruled the German federal authorities and the Western world, and for claiming that the federal German courts practised "Allied victors' justice" by limiting free speech.[21]

Which is true.
There exist several expertises on the legal status of the German Reich, the nation, of renowned International Law and Law of Nations lawyers, who basically confirm it, eg Prof. Dr. jur. Bracht.

[freeyourmindfreeyourself]

Originally Posted by tinyint

Interesting bio, this man, and I don't necessarily agree with him.
In fact he said it was an inside job.

I think these laws actualy raise peoples suspicions more than they do anything to surpress them.

For example if someone went around saying london didnt really exist you wouldnt expect the person to be locked up. But if people were desperate to shut him up and lock him away it would make you belive that there may be somthing in what he is saying. So I think these laws actualy cause more publicity and raise more questions.

[tinyint]

Originally Posted by freeyourmindfreeyourself

I think these laws actualy raise peoples suspicions more than they do anything to surpress them.

For example if someone went around saying london didnt really exist you wouldnt expect the person to be locked up. But if people were desperate to shut him up and lock him away it would make you belive that there may be somthing in what there saying. So I think these laws actualy cause more publicity and raise more questions.

Yes, and the most insane aspect is, you guys in the anglo-saxon world are pending 9-11, or 7-7 denial laws.
Do something about it before it too late. It is no fun to have such thing, as it makes society ill, no public discussion, no trust in people to trust.

[the rational thinker]

Originally Posted by yourot21

Denying the holocaust is a hate crime.

Originally Posted by the rational thinker

You are very poorly educated if you genuinely believe that.

Originally Posted by yourot21

Why are you denying the fact that your country is controlled by evil non Jews.
Your denying all the evidence because of your racism towards Jews.

Are you dyslexic ? I have posted one comment on this thread as above and you reply with that fucking gobbledygook!