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Old 24-05-2011, 10:07 PM   #1
voynich
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Default Bible found to be mistranslated

Following new research bible scholars from Canada find that it has been grossly mistranslated in the past.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-611844
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Old 24-05-2011, 10:12 PM   #2
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I know it is mistranslated but if you try to tell any church going christians they will ignore us.
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Old 24-05-2011, 10:24 PM   #3
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Not only has it been mistranslated but often deliberately manipulated. A good example is when St Jerome inserts the name Lucifer into the old testament translation when it is a latin and not a hebrew name.

I have a Greek translation of Mark which has two endings, one of unkown authorship. What does that tell you? surely if there is only one truth then only one gospel would be needed to explain this, not a few that differ in content
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Old 24-05-2011, 10:40 PM   #4
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If anyone is interested check the cnn video link first then have a look at the researchers own site -

http://www.thechronicleproject.org/

Some of the books have already been translated and are availabe to read.
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Old 24-05-2011, 10:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one666 View Post
I know it is mistranslated but if you try to tell any church going christians they will ignore us.
the original Hebrew doesn't translate well - mainly i think due to lack of vowels.

Bare in mind that the texts were translated from the Hebrew into Greek and Latin before being translated further to British and you can see the template for error.

"And God created Adam in his image" was translated from texts that more accurately say 'And the gods created Adam in their image...."

You can see where things start to go awry.

Am i correct in thinking that in Hebrew the word for God is plural?

Texts were also written down by monks - way before the advent of the printing media - and i imagine a lot was lost through particular interpretation - no doubt each brotherhood would have specific views in some area's that would make it into their interpretation of the texts passed on to them - even if that shift took centuries to manifest, writing a sentence one way, with a few adjustments - even minor ones - can totally shift the emphasis of the passage.

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Old 24-05-2011, 11:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by voynich View Post
Following new research bible scholars from Canada find that it has been grossly mistranslated in the past.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-611844
Quote:
Originally Posted by one666 View Post
I know it is mistranslated but if you try to tell any church going christians they will ignore us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marpat View Post
Not only has it been mistranslated but often deliberately manipulated. A good example is when St Jerome inserts the name Lucifer into the old testament translation when it is a latin and not a hebrew name.

I have a Greek translation of Mark which has two endings, one of unkown authorship. What does that tell you? surely if there is only one truth then only one gospel would be needed to explain this, not a few that differ in content
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
the original Hebrew doesn't translate well - mainly i think due to lack of vowels.

Bare in mind that the texts were translated from the Hebrew into Greek and Latin before being translated further to British and you can see the template for error.

"And God created Adam in his image" was translated from texts that more accurately say 'And the gods created Adam in their image...."

You can see where things start to go awry.

Am i correct in thinking that in Hebrew the word for God is plural?

Texts were also written down by monks - way before the advent of the printing media - and i imagine a lot was lost through particular interpretation - no doubt each brotherhood would have specific views in some area's that would make it into their interpretation of the texts passed on to them - even if that shift took centuries to manifest, writing a sentence one way, with a few adjustments - even minor ones - can totally shift the emphasis of the passage.

merlincove, no, it does not say: the 'gods', it is singular.......elohim.......credentialed Linguist, Michael S Heiser.
So What Exactly is an Elohim?

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/What...n%20Elohim.pdf

The whole shebang

THE DIVINE COUNCIL . COM
http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/


The New Testament, also a Jewish/Hebrew Document was originally scribed in Hebrew. Dr. Fabre D'Olivet illuminates the OPs point.

The New Testament does not say: I am the Alpha and Omega, it says: I am the Aleph and Tau.

http://www.yahweh.com/pdf/12-2004-PW.pdf

Quote:
We would not be any better off, however, if this Scripture (Revelation 1:8) is properly rendered: “I am the Aleph and the Tau.”
We still would not know what Yahweh means when He identifies Himself by the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet,
unless this is further researched.

The letters aleph and tau must be researched to see if they do have a meaning, or message, to convey.
What the Bible translators did not realize (or they rejected) is that each individual Hebrew letter can be a word or phrase unto
itself, with a specific meaning. This is clearly pointed out by Fabre d’Olivet in his book, The Hebraic Tongue Restored. Dr. d’Olivet
gives clear, precise explanations of the meanings of each individual Hebrew letter, and what they point out or declare. On page 98
of his book, Dr. d’Olivet also states that knowing that each Hebrew letter has a meaning of its own, is the key to understanding the
Scriptures.


In reference to the letters aleph and tau, Dr. d’Olivet gives clear proof that these two letters make statements in their own right.
The first letter in the Hebrew alphabet, as Dr. d’Olivet points out from The Hebraic Tongue Restored on pages 95 and 287,
stands for unity.
a A.__This first character of the alphabet, in nearly all known idioms, is the sign of power and of stability. The ideas that it expresses
are those of unity...
a A. First character of the alphabet in nearly all known idioms. In its hieroglyphic acceptation, it characterizes unity, the central
point, the abstract principle of a thing. As sign, it expresses power, stability, continuity.
On pages 98 and 465 of this book, Dr. d’Olivet clearly points out that the letter tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, means
and stands for perfection.
t TH.Sign of reciprocity: image of that which is mutual and reciprocal. Sign of signs. Joining to the abundance of the character d,
to the force of the resistance and protection of the character f, the idea of perfection of which it is itself the symbol.
The Prophetic Word 12-2004 Page 23
t TH. This character as consonant, belongs to the sibilant sound. As grammatical sign in the Hebraic Tongue, it is that of sympathy
and reciprocity; joining, to the abundance of the character r , to the force of resistance and protection of the character f, the idea
of perfection and necessity of which it is the emblem.
Incredible as it may sound, both single letters aleph and tau, are in themselves Hebrew words that have specific meanings.
As Clark in his Commentary, and the writers of The Anchor Bible, Revelation, have shown,the Alpha and Omega should have
been written: the Aleph and the Tau.
Now, with the true meanings of these Hebrew letters revealed, all can see the statement that Yahweh is actually making in these
.S.criptures. Revelation 1:8—
I am unity (Aleph) and perfection (Tau), the Beginning and the End, says Yahweh: Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come: the
Almighty.

.O.ther Scriptures verify that Yahweh is unity and perfection. Deuteronomy 6:4—
Hear, O Israyl, Yahweh is our Father. Yahweh is One.
.Y.ahshua Messiah, a begotten Son of Yahweh, Who was the Savior sent by Yahweh, taught that Yahweh is perfection. Mattithyah 19:17—
But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One who is the standard of perfection, and that is
. Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. Mattithyah 5:48—Therefore, become perfect, just as your Father Who is in heaven is perfect.


Yahweh is revealing Himself again to be unity and perfection. These Scriptures that reveal the Alpha and Omega, the Aleph and
the Tau to be Yahweh Almighty (Revelation 1:8; 1:11; and 21:6) do not point out Yahshua Messiah. Nor can Revelation 22:13,
in which this phrase was added, be used to claim that Yahshua Messiah pre-existed
.
Soon the Xns will realise they need to refine their Theology.

If you want to understand scripture, the Orthodox Rabbis are clued up.

With all the false propaganda about the Talmud, people are reluctant to read it and learn the truth about the Bible.

http://www.vbm-torah.org/

http://www.vbm-torah.org/jewphi.htm
Lecture #37b: Scriptural Semantics, part 2: The Tetragrammaton

Quote:
Medieval grammarians compared the relationship between the Hebrew alphabet and the vowels, which are not part of the alphabet but added under the letters, to the relationship between bodies and souls. This is because one written word may potentially have a number of meanings, depending upon the vowels affixed to the letters. A word without vowels is like a body without a soul; it is not yet alive. Similarly, Rihal teaches us, the letters of the Tetragrammaton are like souls.
http://www.agudatbris.com/writtings2...ah_yahshua.pdf

Kabbalah: the Revelation of King Messiah YahShua
Quote:

“Now to him who is able to establish you by my full message - the proclamation of Messiah YahShua, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known
through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal Elohim, so that all nations might believe and obey him— to the only wise Elohim be glory forever through Messiah YahShua! Amien.” (Romans 16:25-27)
Kabbalah has been clouded in confusion, legend, myth, and misrepresentation because authentic Kabbalah has been hidden for thousands of years... until the coming of King Messiah YahShua.

The word Kabbalah הלב ק comes from the root word ל ב ק which means, “to receive.” Kabbalah
then is received revelation by the Holy Spirit. Kabbalah seeks to encourage a relationship between an eternal and
mysterious Creator – Yahweh, the Ayn Sof, the Incomprehensible One, and the mortal, finite creation – mankind,
made in the “image of the Express Image of the invisible Elohim.” (Genesis 1:26 & Colossians 1:15)
According to Scripture, knowledge of Yahweh was transmitted to the Patriarchs, prophets, and sages
The reason the Dark Forces lie about the Jews and seek their destruction/annihilation is to keep their knowledge from humankind.

They have failed repeatedly.

Last edited by snoopsnuffleopagus; 24-05-2011 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 24-05-2011, 11:41 PM   #7
merlincove
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Originally Posted by snoopsnuffleopagus View Post
merlincove, no, it does not say: the 'gods', it is singular.......elohim.......credentialed Linguist, Michael S Heiser.
So What Exactly is an Elohim?

From what i understand, snoops - the creation of man came after the elohim

Quote:
And God said, Let us .
make man in our image,
after our likeness....
Gen 1:26

Quote:
1:26
u·iamr
and·he-is-saying
אֱ
הִ י
aleim
Elohim
נַעֲ*ֶ ה
noshe
we-shall-makedo
אָ דָ
adm
human
ְ צַ לְ מֵ נ
b·tzlm·nu
in·image-of·us
$ִ דְ מתֵ נ
k·dmuth·nu
as·likeness-of·us
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...OTpdf/gen1.pdf

i have a very good friend who lives in Tel Aviv, she teaches bible studies, is Jewish and speaks fluent English and Hebrew - when she tells me with certainty that the Hebrew has no singular word for God, that God in the OT within Hebrew texts is plural - i am inclined to believe her

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Old 25-05-2011, 12:04 AM   #8
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ADAM=ALL DIVINE ALL MAN= ALL MANKIND IS DIVINE...

EVE=EVERYONES VISION EVERY (This Earth)

NOAH= NO OUTCASTS ALLOWED HERE...

ENOCH=EARTHS NEXT ORBIT CHANGES HISTORY (26000 Year Cycle)

JOHN=JOIN OUR HOME NOW...

MATTHEW=MAKE ALL TRULY TOGETHER HERE EVERYONES WELCOME...

MOSES=MOVE OVER SATAN EXITING SLAVERY

PAUL=PLEASE ALL UNDERSTAND LESSONS

MARK=MAKE ALL RIGHTEOUS KIN

SATAN=STANDING ALWAYS TALL ALWAYS NOTHING

PEACE=PLEASE EVERYONE ACCEPT CHRISTS EXAMPLE

JESUS=JERUSALEM EXITING SLAVERY UNDER SALVATION

LORD=LIVING ON RIGHTEOUS DIRT

SAUL=SINNERS ARE UNDER LAW

US=UNITED SPIRITS

One of the Mysteries that was to be Revealed...
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
From what i understand, snoops - the creation of man came after the elohim

Gen 1:26

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...OTpdf/gen1.pdf

i have a very good friend who lives in Tel Aviv, she teaches bible studies, is Jewish and speaks fluent English and Hebrew - when she tells me with certainty that the Hebrew has no singular word for God, that God in the OT within Hebrew texts is plural - i am inclined to believe her

She's mistaken, which is why I did provide a credentialed Linguist ..I will seek the exact text and post it.

Credentials
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=40255


YAHWEH singular-ELOHIM

Zecharia Sitchin is Jewish. I would imagine that he speaks Hebrew. However, when it comes to biblical Hebrew, he apparently doesn't know Hebrew grammar. Sound crazy? Think about it. You know English; you're reading it now, and you speak it. But could you successfully diagram the sentences in this paragraph? Could you explain all the verb tenses? Could you give me the grammatical relationships of all the prepositional phrases to the verbs which they modify? Could you explain all the subject-verb relationships? I hope you get the point. Grammatical analysis -- which is essential for correct translation -- is not the same as being a speaker of the language. If there were no difference, we wouldn't have English classes in middle school, high school, and college.

Let's apply this to the Hebrew Bible and Sitchin's comments about elohim. Contrary to what Sitchin says, elohim does *not* always mean "gods" (plural); the meaning of the term is to be determined by grammatical and contextual clues. Grammar is to language what your graphical internet browser is to the websites on the internet - it is the organizing vehicle that gives meaning to the data -bits of information. As you'll see below through the PDFs and the videos, this is very easily demonstrated. Grammar dictates the formation of words, the relationship of words to each other, and the meaning of those words with respect to that arrangement. Without attention to the rules of grammar that have governed the languages of ancient texts, you can make the texts say anything.

The PDF files below illustrate (from the Hebrew) that elohim often refers to a "god" or "God" (proper name). Besides this evidence from the Hebrew Bible, I have also posted examples from ancient Mesopotamian texts (Akkadian) from the famous El-Amarna texts where the plural word for "gods" ('ilanu) refers to a single person or god - just as in the case of Hebrew elohim. Why is Sitchin unaware of this material?

•Comments on the noun elohim•Akkadian 'ilanu as a plural-formed word referring to a singular individual.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoB...s%20hebrew.pdf

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoB...%20results.pdf

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoB...%20results.pdf

Quote:
VIDEO 2: a video of me doing a search for where elohim is the subject of a verb of creation. I go through all the results and each time the God of Israel is the elohim referred to, the verbs are SINGULAR. No, Genesis 1:26-27 doesn’t have plural gods creating humankind. (21 MB; 14:46)
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoB...YHWHElohim.pdf

Also two videos


Quote:
word ‘ elohim’ CAN mean either plural ‘ gods ’ or singular ‘ god ’ (or ‘ God ’ as a proper name). The meaning of any occurrence of Elohim must be discerned in three ways:

“ A. Grammatical indications elsewhere in the text that help to determine if a singular or plural meaning is meant.

“ B. Grammatical rules in Hebrew that are true in the language as a whole.

“ C. Historical / Logical context.

“ Please witness: there is no denial that Elohim can mean ‘ gods ’. Mr. Parker either did not read my material, or (more probable) is so deficient in his understanding of grammar (even English grammar terms) that he hasn’t gotten the point. To continue
- what I am saying is that, by itself, the word Elohim is ambiguous in meaning - as are all words, to some extent - it needs to be put into a sentence (I hope I don’t have to define ‘ sentence ’ ). We have words like this in English, such as: ‘ deer ’, ‘ sheep ’, ‘ fish ’
- the point is you need other words to help you tell if one or more than one of these animals is meant. Sometimes these other words are verbs that help you tell. Compare the two examples:

“ 1) ‘ The sheep is lost ’ - the word ‘ is ’ is a singular verb (It goes with a singular subject; one wouldn’t say, for example, ‘ I are lost ’ - you would use a verb that goes
with the singular subject (‘ I am lost ’ ).

“ 2) ‘ The sheep are lost ’ - the word ‘ are ’ is a plural verb (again, another word next to our noun ‘ sheep ’ tells us in this case that plural sheep are meant.

“ All of this is just basic grammar - and every language has grammar. Biblical Hebrew has its own ways of telling us if Elohim means ONE person or many gods. It matches the noun Elohim to singular or plural verbs, or with singular or plural pronouns (to use ‘ sheep ’ again as an example: ‘ Those sheep are white ’ ). The word ‘ those ’ is
what’s called a demonstrative pronoun - it automatically tells us that sheep in this sentence is meant to be understood as a plural. Mr. Parker should at least get the Page 3 argument right if he is going to criticize it.
On the other hand, Sitchin ignores grammar everywhere, so maybe ‘like master, like disciple ’ .”

Parker: “ His [Heiser’s] main proof is that it says in Hebrew ‘The Elohim Said ’ in a singular form not a plural form. This would indicate that the word Elohim was a name and not meaning plural gods. Of course this also could mean that the scribes of the Bible kept it in a singular form to show the monotheistic viewpoint.”

Heiser: “Wrong again. If you look at what I have, I point out that the Hebrew Bible contains just such evidence of plural elohim - in places like Psalm 82, Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Psalm 89:1-10; Psalm 29:1, etc. Maybe you don’t get this point here, either, Erik. How can you claim the scribes edited the text to cover plural gods, when such passages are in the Bible? This makes little sense.

“ Statistically, Elohim occurs roughly 2,500 times in the Hebrew Bible with singular verbs or other singular grammatical indicators. Far more than the plurals, to be sure, but there are absolute affirmations of divine plurality in the Jewish [sic Israelitish]
Bible
. If you want to argue censorship of this, it occurred in late antiquity in rabbinical writings after the rise of Christianity (which used such pluralities to argue for Trinitarianism).

Professor Alan Segal’s book, Two Powers in Heaven documents how
divine plurality BECAME a heresy to the rabbis during this period. My own view is that monotheism should be defined in context of this plurality - that monotheism means Yahweh is incomparable; no other gods can compare to him (as opposed to saying, as
most Christians and Jews [sic bad-fig-jews] do, that other gods don’t exist - which is a denial of their own Bibles). Put another away, ‘Yahweh is an Elohim, but no other Elohim are Yahweh - he is NOT a ‘species equal ’. Israelites had 4-5 criteria for determining how Yahweh was the ‘true god,’ but I won’t launch into that here ...”

Parker: “ There are many uses of the plural term of the word Elohim in the Bible.”

Heiser: “ Again, I haven’t denied there are plural uses (see above, and the website). ‘Many ’ is an overstatement, though - and most of what are there refer to the surrounding gods of other nations, not the God of Israel.” [Heiser’s website is www.SitchinIsWrong.com]

Parker: “ I have listed several plural forms below and it is in fact very hard to find any singular uses of the word.”

Heiser: “ That’s because you don’t read Hebrew and don’t understand Hebrew grammar. You don’t understand what morphology is.”

Parker: “ The word Elohim is definitely plural and does indeed mean ‘gods ’ and it actually contains two forms of the singular word for God inside of itself.”

Heiser: “ This ‘inside itself ’ is something of a linguistic misstatement, but oh well.”

Parker: “ 1. The word EL means God and it is the first part of the word Elohim.”

Heiser: “ Correct - El does mean ‘god ’ as in a single deity.”

Parker: “ 2. The word Eloah, also means God and it is the first part of the word Elohim. Eloah in Hebrew is a three letter root which most Hebrew words contain.”

Heiser: “Correct again - you’ re on a roll, Erik. Eloah is singular for ‘god ’ (used most often in Job), and has three radicals (consonants). Eloah is considered the base for the plural form ‘elohim’ (because of the ‘h ’ ), but El is also pluralized as Elohim, which you don’t seem to understand.”

Parker: “Here we already have two singular forms of the word God inside the plural word Elohim. Yet, Mr. Heiser has never mentioned these singular forms inside

the plural word. He still insists Elohim is singular knowing well that is [sic it] already
contains two singular words for God.”
http://emahiser.christogenea.org/Oth...lar-Elohim.pdf

Last edited by snoopsnuffleopagus; 25-05-2011 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:16 AM   #10
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merlincove, no, it does not say:

The reason the Dark Forces lie about the Jews and seek their destruction/annihilation is to keep their knowledge from humankind.
Sorry To Bust Your Bubble It Is The Exact Opposite... KASHAR THE DARK SONS OF THE FALLEN...

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Old 25-05-2011, 12:40 AM   #11
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She's mistaken, which is why I did provide a credentialed Linguist ..I will seek the exact text and post it.
i also posted a pdf link that translates the same - there is the original Hebrew and (as far as i am aware) the direct translation, as quoted in my post above.

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Old 25-05-2011, 12:48 AM   #12
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check out the last link in my first Post.

Did you notice Dr. Heisers argument about the grammatical morphology? Did you read: So what exactly is an Elohim?


These documents are 1rst class.
IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE KUZARI: AN INTRODUCTION TO JEWISH PHILOSOPHY by Prof. Shalom Rosenberg

http://www.vbm-torah.org/jewphi.htm

Last edited by snoopsnuffleopagus; 25-05-2011 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by voynich View Post
If anyone is interested check the cnn video link first then have a look at the researchers own site -

http://www.thechronicleproject.org/

Some of the books have already been translated and are availabe to read.
Thanks for posting I will have a look at the links because this topic interests me greatly.

I started a thread on it a while ago but didn't get much interest.

Quote:
Bible Translation Inaccuracies

Link - http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=156406
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Old 25-05-2011, 01:42 AM   #14
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The most important bit from the link in the OP

Quote:
Mr. Tyreman also added that the form of this language shows it could not have evolved from surrounding cultures as it is incapable of importing words from outside language. This alone points to an origination outside of the scope of the presently held theories of language development. These findings could have a major impact on how Science and religion look at our beginnings.
ie Hebrew is not a Semitic language and is unrelated to all others, where did it come from ? well obviously it could be directly from God.

Also as to the general thrust of the article, the translation is more of a transliteration, using the exact translation of every letter. Obviously this would not then make too much sense when translated into another language eg English, so in reality there isn't too much new in it.
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Old 25-05-2011, 11:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by snoopsnuffleopagus View Post
merlincove, no, it does not say: the 'gods', it is singular.......elohim.......credentialed Linguist, Michael S Heiser.
So What Exactly is an Elohim?
Well in my JPS translation of the Torah the words Divine beings is used instead of Gods, still indicating that it is plural, and this is a Jewish translation. The JPS translation took many years to complete so I doubt the authors would have made such errors if they actual know the language
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Old 26-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #16
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Am i correct in thinking that in Hebrew the word for God is plural?
Elohim is plural.
Then there is Elohim Adonai.



Last edited by daria; 26-05-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 26-05-2011, 05:26 PM   #17
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Elohim is plural.
Then there is Elohim Adonai.
Meaning God of Gods I take it then
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Old 26-05-2011, 06:56 PM   #18
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Meaning God of Gods I take it then
Elohim and Adonai are both plural.
How to translate; I'm not quite sure.

Gods Gods.
Gods' Gods.

Why I put that Elohim Adonai there is, because I knew a ultra orthodox jewish woman who would always say those two names together. Not just Elohim on it's own.
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Old 26-05-2011, 07:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
"And God created Adam in his image" was translated from texts that more accurately say 'And the gods created Adam in their image...."
elohim is referring to the hashalush hakadosh (trinity).
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Old 26-05-2011, 08:14 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by daria View Post
Elohim and Adonai are both plural.
How to translate; I'm not quite sure.

Gods Gods.
Gods' Gods.

Why I put that Elohim Adonai there is, because I knew a ultra orthodox jewish woman who would always say those two names together. Not just Elohim on it's own.
Im sure Adonai is singular and means Lord. It is the IM on the end which makes it plural, which is obvious when you look at the orders of angels, such as the aralim, the seraphim, etc.

Elohim is definitely plural. Even the old testament stated 'let us make man in our image'

Last edited by marpat; 26-05-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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