EXCITING NEWS!!! A peoples bank now being set up!

[dolores1]

I'm in.

[britishnick]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

The "flat fee" IS interest. Please do not accuse me of spreading disinfo when you play word games like that.

Thanks for asking so nicely... but you are attempting to spread DISINFO. simples yeah I am formerly accusing the user know as knightofthegrail of spreading disinfo!!!! If you don't spread disinfo I wont accuse you of it!!!

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

House prices falling is a tiny issue for banks. The risk is miniscule and does not support charging interest when you get the physical property itself.

LOL so you've already gone from saying there's "zero" risk from banks lending mortgages to "miniscule"

Do you call a 15 - 20% fall in 2 years "miniscule or zero??? or both?
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/property-prices

knightofthegrail spreads disinfo, knightofthegrail spreads disinfo,
knightofthegrail spreads disinfo, knightofthegrail spreads disinfo,
knightofthegrail spreads disinfo, knightofthegrail spreads disinfo,
knightofthegrail spreads disinfo, knightofthegrail spreads disinfo.

Profits raised by the Lawful Bank wil be paid back to it's members and customers in the form of dividends - iit is owned by the people FOR the people, wooooohooooo!!!!!!

P.s. please feel free to call me childish... but at least I back what I say up with evidence ;-)

The lawful Bank sounds like a great plan.. from what I can tell there's still some details to work out but it needs people to know about it and people to register their interest. Great to see the positive posts agreeing

www.lawfulbank.com

peace

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by britishnick

Thanks for asking so nicely... but you are attempting to spread DISINFO. simples yeah I am formerly accusing the user know as knightofthegrail of spreading disinfo!!!! If you don't spread disinfo I wont accuse you of it!!!

What is wrong with you? Are you congenitally thick or something?

When you claim that...

Originally Posted by britishnick

There will be options to get a loan of new token money out, with a flat fee of 10%, no interest.

....you are talking out of your arse. Interest is a charge levied on money borrowed. The flat fee of 10% is itself interest. That's the definition, a fee charged for borrowing money.

LOL so you've already gone from saying there's "zero" risk from banks lending mortgages to "miniscule"

Yes, my mistake. The risk to banks is miniscule because a mortgage is secured on the property. So even if you dont pay the loan back, they get the property.

Either you are mindbendingly ignorant or you are trying to spread a con, either way, coming out with a line like this....

"I won't be taking any finacial advice from you, thanks!!!! I'll stick to people who actually know what they are talking about and that I trust."

....is monumental irony. I would not trust you to tell your arse from your elbow. Its a bank. It requires you make a deposit of a debt based currency and still charges interest on loans. How thick do you have to be to not get that?

[wise haven]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

What is wrong with you? Are you congenitally thick or something?

When you claim that...



....you are talking out of your arse. Interest is a charge levied on money borrowed. The flat fee of 10% is itself interest. That's the definition, a fee charged for borrowing money.





Yes, my mistake. The risk to banks is miniscule because a mortgage is secured on the property. So even if you dont pay the loan back, they get the property.

Either you are mindbendingly ignorant or you are trying to spread a con, either way, coming out with a line like this....

"I won't be taking any finacial advice from you, thanks!!!! I'll stick to people who actually know what they are talking about and that I trust."

....is monumental irony. I would not trust you to tell your arse from your elbow. Its a bank. It requires you make a deposit of a debt based currency and still charges interest on loans. How thick do you have to be to not get that?

A 10% FEE is not the same as 10% INTEREST

Example: Muslims are not allowed to engage in a usury system so instead they pay a FEE to borrow money rather than pay INTEREST.

A Fee is a one time, up front, payment; whereas interest is collected over the time of the loan and may be simple or compound.

Work it out: I borrow £1000 for 5 years for a 10% fee = £100.

or I borrow £1000 and pay 10% interest PA = £500 simple interest and substantially more if compounded.

Does that make sense now?

ps. If your £100 fee is kept in the system, once running costs are taken out, you, as a member, will receive a dividend which could be approximately £60 so in the end you would probably only have forked out £40 in fees, not £100.

If 1000 people pay £100 in fees for loans that woukl result in £100,000 available for re-distribution in the form of dividends depending on the criteria selected.

Some people will borrow, some will save, some will do both - but in the end, when running costs have been taken out, everybody will be entitled to a share of the dividend.
With economies of scale; when the bank has, say 100,000 customers the running costs will be proportionately lower and dividends will rise accordingly.

Sounds like a winner to me.

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by wise haven

A 10% FEE is not the same as 10% INTEREST

Of course it is. Its a fee charged in order to borrow money. What part of that is so hard to grasp?

Example: Muslims are not allowed to engage in a usury system so instead they pay a FEE to borrow money rather than pay INTEREST.

Which is word twisting, as is the example you give. Usury is charging people to borrow money.

14.
Finance .
a. a sum paid or charged for the use of money or for borrowing money.
b. such a sum expressed as a percentage of money borrowed to be paid over a given period, usually one year.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interest

"Interest is a fee paid on borrowed assets. It is the price paid for the use of borrowed money"

Interest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sometimes, discussions on here really remind me of...

Spinal Tap - 11 - YouTube

Spinal Tap - 11 - YouTube

[wise haven]

Dear Knight,

This is semantics and perception.

Of course, a 10% FEE may be "in the form of 10% PA" but a FEE may be in the form of a ONE time up front charge.

We confuse the two because it has long been the practice to charge an annual percentage in the form of interest rather than a one off percentage based fee.

It would be better to say: You will be charged £100 every time you borrow £1000.

We is brainwashed.

[dolores1]

I have now signed up with the bank.

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by wise haven

Dear Knight,

This is semantics and perception.

No, it is either ignorance or word-twisting to suggest that £100 fee on a £1000 loan (so you end up paying back £1100) is somehow not interest. How can you even suggest that it isnt. It blatantly is.

It would be better to say: You will be charged £100 every time you borrow £1000.

And that is precisely and definitively what interest IS. A charge you pay in order to borrow money.

We is brainwashed.

You may well be brainwashed on this matter.

A fee is a fee is a fee. If I am charging you for borrowing money then I am charging you interest. That is what interest is. The fee charged to borrow money. It can take many forms, but it remains a fee. Interest doesnt have to be expressed as Per Annum. It can also be a flat rate; which is what this "new bank" is offering. Its still interest. You are still paying a fee to borrow money. You may not be paying as much, or it might be a more simple calculation, but it remains interest.

For pity's sake

[wise haven]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

No, it is either ignorance or word-twisting to suggest that £100 fee on a £1000 loan (so you end up paying back £1100) is somehow not interest. How can you even suggest that it isnt. It blatantly is.



And that is precisely and definitively what interest IS. A charge you pay in order to borrow money.



You may well be brainwashed on this matter.

A fee is a fee is a fee. If I am charging you for borrowing money then I am charging you interest. That is what interest is. The fee charged to borrow money. It can take many forms, but it remains a fee. Interest doesnt have to be expressed as Per Annum. It can also be a flat rate; which is what this "new bank" is offering. Its still interest. You are still paying a fee to borrow money. You may not be paying as much, or it might be a more simple calculation, but it remains interest.

For pity's sake

I see where you are coming from. But any fee can be expressed as a percentage of the principal amount borrowed, even if it was expressed in fish.

The best thing is to wait for the terms and conditions to be formalised and then we can test our premise against that.

But if you are honest, and look at how lending organisations really work out interest, you will find that it is hidden and obfuscated so the average Joe public do not, or can not work out what that supposed 10% really works out as once you figure out what APR/AER or PA really mean.......one thing is plain - it is way above a flat 10% rate that is stated.
So, a plainly stated one off CHARGE for a SERVICE is much more honest than hiding the real cost behind a magicians smoke and mirror system of arcane and esoteric methods of calculating interest.
Also don't forget there is a difference between a loan repaid in seperate components (principal+interest) as opposed to paying a fee then repaying the capital.....it is fundamentally different, believe me - I used to sell this finance, for my sins. IPeople used to beg me for them but I would try my hardest not to sell because they would be paying through the nose. Even after explaining what a scam it was - people needed their consumer shit more than being prudent with their cash

Anyhow, don't forget the key part - the fact that the members will receive a dividend and there will be no Bosses, or shareholders to cream off a huge bonus (before dividend are issued)

Everyone is a winner

[nongeekywebdude]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

No, it is either ignorance or word-twisting to suggest that £100 fee on a £1000 loan (so you end up paying back £1100) is somehow not interest. How can you even suggest that it isnt. It blatantly is.



And that is precisely and definitively what interest IS. A charge you pay in order to borrow money.



You may well be brainwashed on this matter.

A fee is a fee is a fee. If I am charging you for borrowing money then I am charging you interest. That is what interest is. The fee charged to borrow money. It can take many forms, but it remains a fee. Interest doesnt have to be expressed as Per Annum. It can also be a flat rate; which is what this "new bank" is offering. Its still interest. You are still paying a fee to borrow money. You may not be paying as much, or it might be a more simple calculation, but it remains interest.

For pity's sake

it would be interest if the "fee" was applied every year/month until the loan was completely repaid, if the "fee" is just a one off payment, most people would not consider that interest, whatever the definitions quoted.

For me it all depends if this "flat fee" is charged over the life of the loan - if so thats simple interest, if only charged one time when taking loan out then it is a fee

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by wise haven

But if you are honest, and look at how lending organisations really work out interest, you will find that it is hidden and obfuscated so the average Joe public do not, or can not work out what that supposed 10% really works out as once you figure out what APR/AER or PA really mean.......one thing is plain - it is way above a flat 10% rate that is stated.
So, a plainly stated one off CHARGE for a SERVICE is much more honest.

I do not doubt or disagree with any of that. What I disagree with is the simple nonsense of saying its a 10% fee and not 10% interest. At the very least it is staggering ignorance, and at the worst it is word-twisting deceit.

Originally Posted by nongeekywebdude

it would be interest if the "fee" was applied every year/month until the loan was completely repaid,

No, really, it wouldnt. Interest is the name we give to a fee charged for borrowing money. That is what interest is; a charged levied on borrowed money. That is what we call a charge on borrowed money; interest. It doesnt have to be "applied every month/year until the loan is repaid", it is expressed in many ways. A fee is interest and interest is a fee. To say otherwise is utter nonsense.

[nongeekywebdude]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

I do not doubt or disagree with any of that. What I disagree with is the simple nonsense of saying its a 10% fee and not 10% interest. At the very least it is staggering ignorance, and at the worst it is word-twisting deceit.

often in mortgage and secured loan contracts you will find fees (such as broker or admin fees) and interest quoted and calculated seperately - they are completely different items - not every cost associated with borrowing has to be interest - thats fact, not nonsense as you put it:-)

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by nongeekywebdude

often in mortgage and secured loan contracts you will find fees (such as broker or admin fees) and interest quoted and calculated seperately - they are completely different items - not every cost associated with borrowing has to be interest

Look, I gave you two VERY CLEAR definitions. You are being charged to borrow money. It doesnt matter if this is expressed as a monthly, yearly or one-off figure. Its still interest. Its still the fee attached to borrowed money. Go off and actually read something instead of spouting this bilge.

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by britishnick

So I'm just back from the British Constitution Group Conference - it was fantastic, so much positive info!

The best bit (IMO) was When Roger Hayes announced that they're setting up a new banking system... and a new token, monetary system.

I strongly urge ou to find out more and register your interest.

www.lawfulbank.com

The rough deal (from memory) is as follows: (apologies if some of it is wrong, it's just too exciting not to tell you what I remember!!!)

You will make a plege to open a credit (not debt) account of at least £100 which you must be able to honour if ever called upon to do so (although hopefully you never will)
That £100 pledge (promise to pay) will act as a deposit and grant you credit in the new token system. It will be a type of fractional reserve account at 10 to 1. BUT the multiple of 10 is only valid to the person who put down the pledge, the bank will NOT be able to make the money from thin air for their own benifit or the benifit of other customers... the control of that is solely to the account holder. i.e. you pledge £100 and then you get credit of £1,000 tokens to spend within the system.

This new token money (like a new currency) will be spent at retailers who accept it and traded with other within the system. The Lawful Bank will guarantee that the money tokens can be swapped for GBP £ at any time.

There will be options to get a loan of new token money out, with a flat fee of 10%, no interest. There will be options to get a mortgage at a flat fee of 10%. Money generated within the system goes topay for the upkeep of the system. Branches that are successful will attract more business and flourish, branches that make bad investments will be allowed to fail to keep the integrity of the system as a whole.

It will need a big number of people to make this work, it will need lots of account holders, it will need lots of traders and retailers involved and it will also need people to help set up branches around the country.

The power to create our own money is absolutely key!!! We all know the banks are the ones screwing us over, paying for wars, stealing our land, stealing our freedoms... NOW is the time to take back the power and this is how we can do it.

If you are interested I urge you to register with the wite now www.lawfulbank.com

I'm sure at some point there will be an offficial announcement that will explain things much more clearly so please get involved and lets keep interested and get involved.

peace.

you're one gullible fool.

dont you see a problem or two here?

[majorlee]

signed up and ready to go!

spreading the news too

good luck with this

[nongeekywebdude]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

Look, I gave you two VERY CLEAR definitions. Go off and actually read something instead of spouting this bilge.

if you cant answer the points raised due to general ignorance just say so!

I dont have to "go off" and read something, I used to process secured loans and mortgages every day and can assure you that fees and interest are completely different and have their own definitions so why dont you check it out instead

[wise haven]

One thing to add - even though this argument is about what a fee or interest is.

In Statutory legislation there is actually a big difference and they are treated totally different within financial interpretation laws.

So, if we take the legal definition - we can lawfully say that a fee and interest are totally different in the eyes of the law.......I win

BTW - A fee and interest are also treated differently in Tax law - especially when calculating your tax rebate or when calculating capital gains tax.

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by nongeekywebdude

if you cant answer the points raised due to general ignorance just say so!

I dont have to "go off" and read something, I used to process secured loans and mortgages every day and can assure you that fees and interest are completely different and have their own definitions so why dont you check it out instead

Oh yes, you just happened to work in finance but have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about.

Whatever. Roll up, roll up, invest in the bank - it doesnt charge you interest, it charges you a fee, it still charges you for borrowing money but it goes up to 11 so its different.

Idiot.

[nongeekywebdude]

Originally Posted by knightofthegrail

Oh yes, you just happened to work in finance but have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about.

Whatever. Roll up, roll up, invest in the bank - it doesnt charge you interest, it charges you a fee, it still charges you for borrowing money but it goes up to 11 so its different.

Idiot.

example of mortgage fees
http://www.yourmortgage.co.uk/yourmo...es%20table.pdf

not interest - FEES, as previous poster mentioned, they are quite different - why dont you ask a solicitor who deals with mortgages or secured loans to explain it to you - oh and by the way, its obvious who the idiot is here

from mortgage glossary, typical definitions just for you idiot

Fee - The amount charged by a lender, broker or other middleman for arranging a mortgage or property purchase.

Interest Rate - Also known as the rate of interest, mortgage rate or product rateThe rate of interest on your mortgage denotes the amount you are paying the lender to borrow funds. The rate is expressed as a percentage and calculated by the lender to ensure it receives the original loan amount back by the end of the term

[knightofthegrail]

Originally Posted by nongeekywebdude

example of mortgage fees
http://www.yourmortgage.co.uk/yourmo...es%20table.pdf

not interest - FEES, as previous poster mentioned, they are quite different - why dont you ask a solicitor who deals with mortgages or secured loans to explain it to you - oh and by the way, its obvious who the idiot is here

from mortgage glossary, typical definitions just for you idiot

Bank A: we will charge you 10% interest on your £1000 loan. You will pay back £1100

Bank B: we will not charge you interest. Instead we will charge you a 10% fee on your £1000 loan. You will pay back £1100

Jesus wept.