Swiss vote to keep their guns at home

[real6]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14840041,00.html

Switzerland has rejected tighter gun controls and will continue to allow citizens to keep army-issued weapons at home. A referendum that sought to have weapons stored in armories instead was rejected.


Swiss voters on Sunday rejected a proposal to ban army firearms from their homes, following a nationwide referendum.



The referendum was launched by a coalition of non-governmental groups, religious authorities and center-left parties, who sought to get the weapons stored in armories instead.



Voters upheld their national tradition of having an ever-ready army, and many see keeping a weapon at home as a crucial aspect of national identity.



Just two hours after polls closed, 22 out of 26 cantons returned final results, with a majority of cantons - 17 - voting firmly against the move. For the referendum to have passed, it would have needed the support both a majority of cantons and a majority of people.



Citizen army tradition



Swiss soldiersBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Having an ever-ready citizen army is key to Swiss identity, some say

The majority of Swiss men liable for military service store their guns at home and often keep them after leaving the army.



The practice of keeping arms at home was once a key part of the country's defense strategy, which was in part aimed at deterring invasion with the threat that its citizens were combat-ready.



According to official data, about 2 million firearms are in circulation, with a population size of about 7 million. However, there are an estimated 240,000 unregistered weapons in Switzerland.



The government had called on the population to vote against the initiative, explaining that "current legislation assures adequate and sufficient protection of the population against the abusive use of weapons."



Advocates of the ban said the easy availability of weapons poses a danger for suicidal people, and Switzerland's suicide rate is three times higher than in the rest of Europe.



Author: Catherine Bolsover (Reuters/AFP)

Editor: Sean Sinico

[andyh]

Well, this is what direct democracy is all about and the Swiss have the best model in the world for this kind of thing imho. God bless 'em.

[hadabusa]

the issue aside, the real point to all is" The referendum was launched by a coalition of non-governmental groups"

now, yall ppl outside switzerland go+think about that.

go+try having that in your countrrys.

forget holocaust , chemtrails, fr banking, and other run in circles issues.

bc direct democracy will stop this "nwo" crap once+forall.


thats what you should fight for.

[ragnarok]

Those upright and law-abiding Swiss folks! Sleeping easy at night with their rifles by their beds, while their govt./banking system is profiting from misery, and grassing up the less discreet villians they service to the security forces of other countries, just to seem cooperative.

[andyh]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

bc direct democracy will stop this "nwo" crap once+forall.


thats what you should fight for.

As long as you have a well educated electorate yep.
There's no way in hell this would be allowed in any EU state, especially not the UK lol.

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by ragnarok

Those upright and law-abiding Swiss folks! Sleeping easy at night with their rifles by their beds, while their govt./banking system is profiting from misery, and grassing up the less discreet villians they service to the security forces of other countries, just to seem cooperative.

ammo must stay in armoury/caserne, tough.



the banking issue, yes,yes

[nosebleed]

Could you imagine living somewhere like Glasgow , and army weapons are legal for everyone

[andyh]

Originally Posted by nosebleed

Could you imagine living somewhere like Glasgow , and army weapons are legal for everyone

I reckon it'd be quite safe after a few weeks lol

[wake_up_bomb]

There are huge problems with having a direct democracy system in the UK.

Firstly, there is no historical precedent for it, there have been referenda in the recent past, but there's nothing constitutional to say that the government has to stick to the results, there's no social contract and there never has been one.

Secondly, at heart we're not a democracy, we're a monarchical fiefdom.

Thirdly, no-one in living memory has ever experienced anything other than the current system, and few people come to question it, especially as the media is completely complicit in its promotion.

Fourthly, there is a huge malaise in the UK, which I haven't experienced anywhere else in the other countries to which I've travelled, where people really don't seem to care about anything other than consuming, not even seemingly caring about basic things like their surroundings.

Finally, all grass roots political movements have hit a total dead-end, because they don't get any MSM participation, or very minimal at best, during which their views are marginalised and / or demonised, they haven't even got a hope of getting one seat in the parliament due to the first past the post system, and there is no enthusiasm or even willingness amongst the general population to get involved with anything political. They simply consider going to work, paying your taxes, coming home, watching TV, getting drunk and shopping at the weekend, as being normal. They don't want freedom, they just want the freedom to do what they want, and as long as this remains with minimal intervention, even if they're being bled dry, they just will just continue on their merry way without giving it a second thought. This is one of the fundamental reasons why demonising those in receipt of benefit is one of our favourite national hobbies. I think Britain and the US are the only two countries where the following could happen, simply because the protestant work ethic is so engrained in our culture:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...s-workmates.do

[humanspirit]

They must be scared of retribution from outsiders those gnomes of zurich.

all that wealth stored in switzerland amassed from all the wars in europe.

funny how hitler never invaded them i dont think.

[mk_ultra]

Originally Posted by andyh

As long as you have a well educated electorate yep.
There's no way in hell this would be allowed in any EU state, especially not the UK lol.

Correct, basically because any country holding a referendum on EU Membership would vote to get the fuck out of it.

Both Switzerland and Norway have had referenda on EU membership and voted no!

[andyh]

Originally Posted by mk_ultra

Correct, basically because any country holding a referendum on EU Membership would vote to get the fuck out of it.

Both Switzerland and Norway have had referenda on EU membership and voted no!

I'm convinced Ireland did the 2nd time too, they had fellas walking in and out of town halls with ballot boxes all night and then just about all the country had a yes vote with almost exactly the same percentage.
Nevermind it broke their own constitution to have a 2nd vote lol.

[mk_ultra]

Originally Posted by andyh

I'm convinced Ireland did the 2nd time too, they had fellas walking in and out of town halls with ballot boxes all night and then just about all the country had a yes vote with almost exactly the same percentage.
Nevermind it broke their own constitution to have a 2nd vote lol.

Yes, I believe that also, all the poles they conducted with door-to-door type surveys showed over 90% against. Similar thing happened with the Lisbon Treaty vote.

[resistance]

Originally Posted by wake_up_bomb

There are huge problems with having a direct democracy system in the UK.

Firstly, there is no historical precedent for it, there have been referenda in the recent past, but there's nothing constitutional to say that the government has to stick to the results, there's no social contract and there never has been one.

Secondly, at heart we're not a democracy, we're a monarchical fiefdom.

Thirdly, no-one in living memory has ever experienced anything other than the current system, and few people come to question it, especially as the media is completely complicit in its promotion.

Fourthly, there is a huge malaise in the UK, which I haven't experienced anywhere else in the other countries to which I've travelled, where people really don't seem to care about anything other than consuming, not even seemingly caring about basic things like their surroundings.

Finally, all grass roots political movements have hit a total dead-end, because they don't get any MSM participation, or very minimal at best, during which their views are marginalised and / or demonised, they haven't even got a hope of getting one seat in the parliament due to the first past the post system, and there is no enthusiasm or even willingness amongst the general population to get involved with anything political. They simply consider going to work, paying your taxes, coming home, watching TV, getting drunk and shopping at the weekend, as being normal. They don't want freedom, they just want the freedom to do what they want, and as long as this remains with minimal intervention, even if they're being bled dry, they just will just continue on their merry way without giving it a second thought. This is one of the fundamental reasons why demonising those in receipt of benefit is one of our favourite national hobbies. I think Britain and the US are the only two countries where the following could happen, simply because the protestant work ethic is so engrained in our culture:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...s-workmates.do

I agree with most of that, though I would disagree we are monarchical fiefdom, it's more an hierarchical fiefdom. Not at heart either, I would say more like coerced, at least historically speaking. But nowadays people have become conditioned to love their servitude ofcoarse, so you are correct in a way.

[the apprentice]

Originally Posted by nosebleed

Could you imagine living somewhere like Glasgow , and army weapons are legal for everyone

Break out the ammo Gash.

No ammo Rab.

This boom stick is just a stick then.

[kanz]

Originally Posted by nosebleed

Could you imagine living somewhere like Glasgow , and army weapons are legal for everyone

God forbid that people could actually have a tool to defend themself without breaking the law ^^.

Get what your saying , but in reality most people aint going to be any trouble if everyone had a gun. It would be like trying to go on a killing spree at an NRA meeting , chances are you aint going to get far.

When both sides are armed just as well as each other , no body is that intrested in a fight unless its over some real seriouse shit.In which case these guys would no doubt use a car, knife or home made bomb if they couldnt get a gun.

If by some chance people do just decide to get into random gun fight's, well there retarded and no doubt would have did something just as stupid anyway. Just because something is illegal dosn't mean you can't get it, so in reality you are just disarming the public and leaveing them at the mercy of these head cases . As the head case can get a gun beacuse well he dosn't give two fuks about any law's if hes planning on going to shoot at people anyway.

Don't kid yourself man , theres plenty of guns and shooting in glasgow. All thats happened is the guns are in the hands of the outlaws , as by haveing guns outlawed you make anyone with one an outlaw.

[mmac900]

Originally Posted by wake_up_bomb

Fourthly, there is a huge malaise in the UK, which I haven't experienced anywhere else in the other countries to which I've travelled, where people really don't seem to care about anything other than consuming, not even seemingly caring about basic things like their surroundings.

[/url]

Mate, I just moved here from USA, trust me, US is way worse with people not caring.

[the apprentice]

Originally Posted by kanz

God forbid that people could actually have a tool to defend themself without breaking the law ^^.

Get what your saying , but in reality most people aint going to be any trouble if everyone had a gun. It would be like trying to go on a killing spree at an NRA meeting , chances are you aint going to get far.

When both sides are armed just as well as each other , no body is that intrested in a fight unless its over some real seriouse shit.In which case these guys would no doubt use a car, knife or home made bomb if they couldnt get a gun.

If by some chance people do just decide to get into random gun fight's, well there retarded and no doubt would have did something just as stupid anyway. Just because something is illegal dosn't mean you can't get it, so in reality you are just disarming the public and leaveing them at the mercy of these head cases . As the head case can get a gun beacuse well he dosn't give two fuks about any law's if hes planning on going to shoot at people anyway.

Don't kid yourself man , theres plenty of guns and shooting in glasgow. All thats happened is the guns are in the hands of the outlaws , as by haveing guns outlawed you make anyone with one an outlaw.

There are thousands of legal high powered rifles in public ownership and many of these people can load their own ammo, many of these are ex-military and the rifles are more than a match for the military.

If any number of people wanted to make one of these count there would not be much a polotician etc could do to stop them.

There are also millions of smaller bore rifles owned by farmers like 243, 223, 222/50 all which will despatch its target at 300 meters if you stand still.

Then you have millions of shotgun owners with a multitude of different ammo.

Handguns owned by criminals would be no worry to the general public if the SHTF, they wouldn't last very long.

[dan duchaine]

Hmm, well educated country full of sensible well balanced people doesnt get screwed over by its own government.

Stupid island full of chavs, celebrity wannabees, MEW obsessed baby boombers and dumbed down tv dinner minimum wage council nazis gets shafted at every opportunity by government while they all fight like the proverbial ferret in a bag.

I think i see a pattern here.

[wake_up_bomb]

Originally Posted by resistance

I agree with most of that, though I would disagree we are monarchical fiefdom, it's more an hierarchical fiefdom. Not at heart either, I would say more like coerced, at least historically speaking. But nowadays people have become conditioned to love their servitude ofcoarse, so you are correct in a way.

When I say at heart, I mean at our core, not in the hearts of the people. I think deep down people do know that things are very amiss, but they are encouraged - very successfully - to turn a blind eye.

Originally Posted by mmac900

Mate, I just moved here from USA, trust me, US is way worse with people not caring.

Oh, that's a shame! I've only been to the States once, so I don't have that much direct experience. I have got the vague impression from reading that people are a bit more politically active than in the UK, but this could of course be complete bullshit. Speaking from personal experience, compared to most comparable Western European countries, large parts of Britain are a complete toilet. It has its pleasant areas, some attractive countryside, but in my opinion the cities and towns are generally appalling.

But generally, talking about direct democracy, the big problem in the UK is that there is no mechanism to bring it in. As soon as the Lib Dems have formed part of the government, they've completely stopped talking about proportional representation, as they are supposed to. As long as the first past the post system continues, no-one in the public really has a voice, because if you feel strongly about something, and I've heard MPs say this several times, if you are strongly critical of decisions being made it is advocated that you should stand yourself. Which unless you stand as a Tory or Labour candidate - or to a lesser extent Lib Dem - is largely pointless. All the grass roots political movements just reach a dead-end because when they ask the system to change, it falls on deaf ears to put it mildly, when they try to participate in the existing system, they can't get enough of the vote to make even meagre progress, and they have no public platform for their views, so they can't raise any awareness amongst the public to the point where people are demanding change.

This is why I believe David Icke is correct when he says non co-operation is the way forward, as it's pretty much impossible to reform the system from within.