Do Churches Make the Bible Less Believeble?

throwback · 27-07-2010, 05:24 PM

What has more credibility, the church, or the Bible?

Does the fact that there are so many churches discredit the Bible?

Does anyone know of a single church that actually stands by and affirms what the Bible teaches rather than its own individual creed or accepted doctrine?

Do people really know what the Bible teaches or are they more in tune with what churches SAY the Bible teaches?

-----------------
I challenge your studieous minds to give the book a chance and see what it actually says about such topics as:

GOD
DEATH
THE NATURE OF MAN
HELL
RELIGIOUS SERVICE
SALVATION
AGES as opposed to EVERLASTING
ANGELS
THE DEVIL
DEMONS
GIVING
RELIGIOUS TITLES

What you will find in your studies will be in most cases DRASTICALLY different from what most churches probagate from their respective pulpits.

kbeet · 27-07-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by throwback

What has more credibility, the church, or the Bible?

Does the fact that there are so many churches discredit the Bible?

Does anyone know of a single church that actually stands by and affirms what the Bible teaches rather than its own individual creed or accepted doctrine?

Do people really know what the Bible teaches or are they more in tune with what churches SAY the Bible teaches?

-----------------
I challenge your studieous minds to give the book a chance and see what it actually says about such topics as:

GOD
DEATH
THE NATURE OF MAN
HELL
RELIGIOUS SERVICE
SALVATION
AGES as opposed to EVERLASTING
ANGELS
THE DEVIL
DEMONS
GIVING
RELIGIOUS TITLES

What you will find in your studies will be in most cases DRASTICALLY different from what most churches probagate from their respective pulpits.

http://www.drbo.org/church.htm

decode reality · 28-07-2010, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by throwback

What has more credibility, the church, or the Bible?

Does the fact that there are so many churches discredit the Bible?

Does anyone know of a single church that actually stands by and affirms what the Bible teaches rather than its own individual creed or accepted doctrine?

Do people really know what the Bible teaches or are they more in tune with what churches SAY the Bible teaches?

-----------------
I challenge your studieous minds to give the book a chance and see what it actually says about such topics as:

GOD
DEATH
THE NATURE OF MAN
HELL
RELIGIOUS SERVICE
SALVATION
AGES as opposed to EVERLASTING
ANGELS
THE DEVIL
DEMONS
GIVING
RELIGIOUS TITLES

What you will find in your studies will be in most cases DRASTICALLY different from what most churches probagate from their respective pulpits.

A book that starts off talking about a talking snake doesn't have much credibility, anyway. The church only compounds things by teaching people to believe in such unrealities.

1964 · 28-07-2010, 08:04 AM

Because Jesus Christ prophesied the coming of so many imposters, then their arrival has only proven the Word of God to be true.

metallikitty · 28-07-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1964

Because Jesus Christ prophesied the coming of so many imposters, then their arrival has only proven the Word of God to be true.

agreed 100%!

christ4life · 28-07-2010, 10:35 AM

I'd rather read the Bible first then go to church. To many people twisting the word these days.

ellis_deatrip · 28-07-2010, 11:06 AM

Even Jesus hates religion.

1964 · 28-07-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christ4life

I'd rather read the Bible first then go to church. To many people twisting the word these days.

Speaking of twisting words, they've even changed the meaning of the word "church". They've got people thinking that church is something you "go to". Meanwhile, Scripture is clear that the Church is the Body of Christ - not a building you're supposed to meet in once a week. The Body of Christ, worldwide, is the Church.

nightgash · 28-07-2010, 02:04 PM

I had a strange thought that my church was inside of me. The chief corner stone that the builders rejected.

dedicate · 28-07-2010, 02:56 PM

Did you ever notice how difficult it is to put things in their place -- as if this is what is needed in order to understand the nature of things?

What is a mammal?.... a dolphin or whale is the oddest type of mammal,, and not a fish? A penquin is a bird? Not to mention (but will) the platipus. Coral -- animal or vegitable?

These are real life lessons for people. And I'm sure the response looks as out of place on this thread as the jellyfish do in the scheme of one celled animals.

What is a "Church"? What is "Saved"? .. as if these things have to look and be the same everyplace and everywhere? Man has his ways, and God has His ways.

elirien · 28-07-2010, 05:17 PM

The Bible is not to be believed in, it is to be understood. Belief is a mental projection under the pretense "Oh that must be so then probably". Understanding is bodily in all forms and non-forms. When you drive a car do you believe in it?

If the church makes the bible non-believable then power to them. Very good. Then perhaps people will read it rather then memorizing scraps and pieces which is happening right now in all so called social research circles what ever they think they are, truth seeker, conspiracy researcher, bible thumper.

nicolaj · 28-07-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellis_deatrip

Even Jesus hates religion.

spot on both accounts..

throwback · 28-07-2010, 05:52 PM

When I think about churches, unfortunately MONEY stands out like an 800lb gorilla. If you take money out of the mix, would there even be churches?

--------------
church = corporate religious institution founded by its patrons that is divided into 2 classes, clergy and laity.

nicolaj · 28-07-2010, 07:49 PM

church=the body of Christ.

throwback · 28-07-2010, 08:06 PM

People who are members of churches would be better served by being members of one another's lives as they love and help each other to live in the manner Jesus instructed.
Jesus came to call out a people for salvation. He did not come to lead people to some corporate institution that acts as a go between between the individual and Him. People need to seek out a relationship with the Lord rather than a membership in a corporate church.
There is no harm in going to the assembly services of a church, but what is wrong is to tell people that the way to God is through your church. Church should be used as a place to fellowship with people who you can help and that can help you.

throwback · 28-07-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolaj

church=the body of Christ.

ekklesia = called out body of the anointed ones
church = house of the lord Mithras
- church is a word with Latin roots that was transliterated into English which has no equivalent in the Greek NT. The word itself really has no place in scripture. What Jesus actually said in Matthew 18 was: "upon this rock I will establish My ekklesia (assembly) and the gates of hades will not prevail against it."

clachan · 28-07-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decode reality

A book that starts off talking about a talking snake doesn't have much credibility, anyway. The church only compounds things by teaching people to believe in such unrealities.

That only applies if you are a literalist.
How do you expect people from the 5th century to understand genetics and other complex sujects to do with creation ?
Perhaps the Bible was written for even the most basic of humans to take in and understand.Truth can be explained in lots of ways,symbols are often used to represent a higher meaning.

shankers · 28-07-2010, 09:26 PM

There's a strand in 20th century Protestant thought of 'religionless Christianity'. You can find it in the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer (who was imprisoned and killed for trying to assassinate Hitler) and aspects of it in Karl Barth. Part of the idea with this concept is that there is a difference between religion (and the human aspects of the Church) and the truth of Christianity. It's a neat distinction, especially when you get the old duffers saying hackneyed things like 'Religion starts wars' etc. Of course, this notion can be challenged, such as by stating that the truth of Christianity is human, too (that's for another day, although I'm willing and interested to go into it).

Alternatively, Nicolaj stated that the Church is the body of Christ. This is a Pauline notion and has many interpretations. Corpus christi verum in Catholic thought refers to the body of Christ in transubstantiation during the real presence in the eucharist, i.e., the true body of Christ. Corpus christi mysticum refers to the socio-juridical body of Christian believers, identified with the Church (read Henri de Lubac and Ernst Kantorowicz on this issue). This development happened after the eucharistic controversy in the High Middle Ages. If one posits the notion of doctrinal development as being true, then the Church both refers to religion AND Christianity (the verum-mysticum distinction covers both). If one does not, then the question becomes one of correct exegetical interpretation of the Pauline corpus, which is another difficult question to address.

shankers · 28-07-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clachan

That only applies if you are a literalist.
How do you expect people from the 5th century to understand genetics and other complex sujects to do with creation ?
Perhaps the Bible was written for even the most basic of humans to take in and understand.Truth can be explained in lots of ways,symbols are often used to represent a higher meaning.

Totally agree with you. Religious language is very complex. Very few Christians take the Bible literally, certainly not the more aetiologically-oriented stories such as the two creation stories (Gen. 1 and 2) and the Flood. Bultmann has shown how we should search for the 'kerygma' (core of religious truth) cloaked in language of the time. Tillich has also shown how religious language can open-up a window to Being-Itself; it has a symbolic value. More simply, we can understand religious language metaphorically, or in chains of metaphor in the form of allegory. Origen in the 3rd century AD interpreted the whole Bible as an extended allegory, construing, for instance, the 6 days of creation as 'epochs', periods of time.

roger_pearse · 28-07-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by throwback

ekklesia = called out body of the anointed ones
church = house of the lord Mithras
- church is a word with Latin roots that was transliterated into English

Interesting claims indeed. Perhaps you can reveal the source of these claims? Is there any ancient evidence for them? <hint>

"House of the Lord Mithras" is quite funny if you know a little Latin, as I do. That (a) in Latin would be Domus Domini Mithrae, and (b) I don't think the phrase is found anywhere in Latin literature.

The Greek word "ekklesia" has no such meaning either. It means "(popular) assembly".

All the best,

Roger Pearse

27-07-2010, 05:24 PM	#1
throwback Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The good ole US of A Posts: 883	Do Churches Make the Bible Less Believeble? What has more credibility, the church, or the Bible? Does the fact that there are so many churches discredit the Bible? Does anyone know of a single church that actually stands by and affirms what the Bible teaches rather than its own individual creed or accepted doctrine? Do people really know what the Bible teaches or are they more in tune with what churches SAY the Bible teaches? ----------------- I challenge your studieous minds to give the book a chance and see what it actually says about such topics as: GOD DEATH THE NATURE OF MAN HELL RELIGIOUS SERVICE SALVATION AGES as opposed to EVERLASTING ANGELS THE DEVIL DEMONS GIVING RELIGIOUS TITLES What you will find in your studies will be in most cases DRASTICALLY different from what most churches probagate from their respective pulpits.

28-07-2010, 08:04 AM	#4
1964 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,350	Because Jesus Christ prophesied the coming of so many imposters, then their arrival has only proven the Word of God to be true. __________________ Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

28-07-2010, 11:06 AM	#7
ellis_deatrip Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: city of angels Posts: 4,963	Even Jesus hates religion. __________________ …..____________________ , ,__ ……/ `—___________—-_____]- Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. …../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/ …..), —.(_(__) / ….// (..)), —-” …//__/ ..//__/Give a man a bank and he can rob the world!

28-07-2010, 02:56 PM	#10
dedicate Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,265	Did you ever notice how difficult it is to put things in their place -- as if this is what is needed in order to understand the nature of things? What is a mammal?.... a dolphin or whale is the oddest type of mammal,, and not a fish? A penquin is a bird? Not to mention (but will) the platipus. Coral -- animal or vegitable? These are real life lessons for people. And I'm sure the response looks as out of place on this thread as the jellyfish do in the scheme of one celled animals. What is a "Church"? What is "Saved"? .. as if these things have to look and be the same everyplace and everywhere? Man has his ways, and God has His ways. Last edited by dedicate; 28-07-2010 at 02:57 PM.

28-07-2010, 05:52 PM	#13
throwback Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The good ole US of A Posts: 883	When I think about churches, unfortunately MONEY stands out like an 800lb gorilla. If you take money out of the mix, would there even be churches? -------------- church = corporate religious institution founded by its patrons that is divided into 2 classes, clergy and laity. Last edited by throwback; 28-07-2010 at 07:35 PM.

28-07-2010, 10:35 AM	#6
christ4life Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,825	I'd rather read the Bible first then go to church. To many people twisting the word these days.

28-07-2010, 02:04 PM	#9
nightgash Inactive Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 30	I had a strange thought that my church was inside of me. The chief corner stone that the builders rejected.

28-07-2010, 05:17 PM	#11
elirien Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: İstanbul, Turkey Posts: 2,871	The Bible is not to be believed in, it is to be understood. Belief is a mental projection under the pretense "Oh that must be so then probably". Understanding is bodily in all forms and non-forms. When you drive a car do you believe in it? If the church makes the bible non-believable then power to them. Very good. Then perhaps people will read it rather then memorizing scraps and pieces which is happening right now in all so called social research circles what ever they think they are, truth seeker, conspiracy researcher, bible thumper.

28-07-2010, 07:49 PM	#14
nicolaj Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK Posts: 2,413	church=the body of Christ. __________________ Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

28-07-2010, 08:06 PM	#15
throwback Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The good ole US of A Posts: 883	People who are members of churches would be better served by being members of one another's lives as they love and help each other to live in the manner Jesus instructed. Jesus came to call out a people for salvation. He did not come to lead people to some corporate institution that acts as a go between between the individual and Him. People need to seek out a relationship with the Lord rather than a membership in a corporate church. There is no harm in going to the assembly services of a church, but what is wrong is to tell people that the way to God is through your church. Church should be used as a place to fellowship with people who you can help and that can help you.

28-07-2010, 09:26 PM	#18
shankers Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Britain Posts: 603	There's a strand in 20th century Protestant thought of 'religionless Christianity'. You can find it in the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer (who was imprisoned and killed for trying to assassinate Hitler) and aspects of it in Karl Barth. Part of the idea with this concept is that there is a difference between religion (and the human aspects of the Church) and the truth of Christianity. It's a neat distinction, especially when you get the old duffers saying hackneyed things like 'Religion starts wars' etc. Of course, this notion can be challenged, such as by stating that the truth of Christianity is human, too (that's for another day, although I'm willing and interested to go into it). Alternatively, Nicolaj stated that the Church is the body of Christ. This is a Pauline notion and has many interpretations. Corpus christi verum in Catholic thought refers to the body of Christ in transubstantiation during the real presence in the eucharist, i.e., the true body of Christ. Corpus christi mysticum refers to the socio-juridical body of Christian believers, identified with the Church (read Henri de Lubac and Ernst Kantorowicz on this issue). This development happened after the eucharistic controversy in the High Middle Ages. If one posits the notion of doctrinal development as being true, then the Church both refers to religion AND Christianity (the verum-mysticum distinction covers both). If one does not, then the question becomes one of correct exegetical interpretation of the Pauline corpus, which is another difficult question to address. __________________ A Don in the hand is worth two in the bush. Erm, I mean Ghillie suit. Last edited by shankers; 28-07-2010 at 09:34 PM.