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Old 15-06-2010, 08:34 AM   #1
luciferhorus
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Default Masonry and the Sale of Fake Degrees.

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Originally Posted by thelonious View Post
You can take this for whatever it's worth, but Grandsecretary has some sort of grudge against traditional Masonry, and started his own modern pseudo-masonic organization that he claims is "ancient". Most of what I've read by him here is propaganda geared to discounting legitmate Masonry, and promoting his own fake "masonry". While that may seem harsh, Masonic history is full of such shysters.).


Fake Masonry.

The argument made by the Grand Secretary, if I understand him correctly, is that what you refer to as "traditional" Masonry, and others refer to as "speculative" Masonry appears to have a tradition which goes back only to the only the 18th century. Ed King of Masonicinfo.com has remarked that the Grand Secretary's Lodge was founded a few years ago by a couple of guys in a pub; however this allegation is also similar to that which is alleged of modern "speculative Masonry" in the 18th century.



Operative and Speculative Masonry

Operative Masonry of course refers to Masons who actually operate in the traditional Craft of Masonry (stone cutting), Architecture and it's associated Crafts. In include myself in this category of course. This kind of Masonry is as old as the craft of architecture and Temple construction.

In a bygone age without copyrights, patents, universities and technical colleges, such Crafts were taught by medieval "guilds" and in more ancient times were almost certainly "guarded" crafts which involved oaths of secrecy, the teachings of mathematics and geometry, etc. The guarding of certain Craft secrets whose value would have diminished if they were widely known outside the guild would explain the lack of "technical manuals" from that era.

One of the reasons why we know very little about the ancient Egyptian mysteries, the Elusian (Greek) mysteries and other mystery schools is that devotees were sworn not to reveal such secrets on pain of death, and thus there are no written texts; similarly it has been argued that this may be the central reason why we do not know how the pyramids were built, for no architectural details or methods were written down, and such Craft skills were unlikely to have been written down and published to the world; the architects of a bygone era appear to have wished to keep their Craft skills to themselves.

It seems to be the case, and indeed it is the Grand Secretary's position that the Craft skills of operative masonry have throughout history been entwined with elements of esoteric knowledge, and of course this is very likely the case with the ancient builders of Egypt and Phoenicia, the latter of whom allegedly built Solomon's Temple. According the "myth" of Solomon' Temple (and it is only a myth of course) it was of course the "Architect" of Solomon's Temple who was also the High Priest of the Temple, which is entirely to be expected in the ancient world if operative Masonry, Temple architecture and the mystery schools were entwined.



Fake Degrees. Operative.

In the "operative" sense, what you refer to as "traditional" Masonry clearly involves the offering of "fake" degrees; if it were otherwise, the degrees offered by lodges would be accepted by architects, engineers and on any building site; not so with the degrees sold by Masons or indeed any of their affiliated side rituals such as the Shriners and Jesters; if it were otherwise such lodges would be accredited academic institutions. Thus the degrees of knowledge sold by Masonic Lodges and their pompous titles, are in the "operative" sense entirely "fake."



Fake Degrees. Speculative.

By "speculative" what appears to be referred to is philosophical and metaphysical "speculation." "Metaphysics" is no longer a subject at any major academic institution. It is not an academic subject, since one cannot "study" what is not "physical;" one can only speculate, and it is such speculation which has brought about the ramblings of the authors of the numerous Holy Books of the world.

Probably the modern equivalent of "accredited" speculative degrees are the degrees offered by academic institutions in the many liberal arts subjects, such as philosophy, history, etc. However the degrees sold by Masonic Lodges are in this sense entirely fake and not accredited.

Masons in general further appear to be rather confused regarding the "knowledge" of Masonry and much of the knowledge which can be gleaned from their writings appears to amount to little more than nonsense in comparison with that which can be gleaned from the great libraries of the world, the foremost of which is the Internet itself.



Fake Degrees. The Kabbalah.

Many Masonic cults sell 3, 10, 33 and 38 degrees of knowledge with associated pompous titles. These numbers reveal the Kabbalistic basis of the cults and refer to the Kabbalistic Trinity, the 3 aspects of Creation, the 10 Sephira, the 33 aspects of the Tree of Life and the 5 Elements. I have explained this in my essays "The Kabbalah Simplified. For Children "(http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60278)," and "Kabbalah Simplified Pt 2. The 33 and 38 degrees," (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60547).

It does appear to be the case that many Masons are unaware of the association between the Kabbalah and the Masonic degrees and that the associations are entirely hidden from them; indeed the few Masons who are not unaware of this appear to have gleaned their knowledge from other sources outside Masonry.

Masonry is not the only cult in the world in the business of selling knowledge and degrees which are based on this ancient knowledge; however it is my judgement, due to the general ignorance of the Masons in general, that the degrees of knowledge in Masonry do not actually impart Kabbalistic knowledge, and that their cult is rather a pseudo-Kabbalistic cult which seeks to profit by "basing" their system on the ancient system. There are other similar cults such as the cult founded by the millionaire Rabbi, Phillip Berg, "The Kabbalah Centre" which will similarly sell you such fake degrees of knowledge or a copy of the Zohar (freely available from numerous Internet libraries) for $500.



Fake degrees. A military order.

Further the degrees in many Masonic cults are also associated with "military rank." Although it is the case that many Masons are actually themselves part of the state terrorist military and police, these titles are given out also the various armchair warriors of Capitalist revolution, whether they be bankers, lawyers, or whatever. These would appear only to be titles which are sold for Capitalist coin to those who are gullible and vain enough to value the pomposity of such titles and who like to dress up as Knight's Templars for pantomimes and who consider themselves as the inheritors of the tradition of a 12th to 13th century cult of loan sharks who were co-responsible for genocide, cannibalism and the atrocities of the Pope's Crusades.



A Gentleman's Club.

Masonry today is simply a Paternalistic (male supremacist) Capitalist cult of Capitalist males. It is entirely disassociated from the "mysteries" of the ancient world; it's rituals are a pantomime of farce which appear little different to the rituals of an all male frat house. If there was any basis of the rituals in Kabbalistic knowledge, sex magic and necromancy of a more ancient age, they have been entirely stripped away and replaced with nonsense; this ridiculous farce is made even more clear by some of the Masonic "side orders" such as the Jesters and Shriners. Masonry appears to be simply little more than a private club for the ridiculous, arrogant and pompous.

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Masonry in thoroughly theistic, and therefore the atheist would not appreciate the teachings and symbolism of the Order (nor would they do him much good). If the purpose of the Fraternity is to explore the great mysteries of Divinity, the person who does not even believe in a Divinity would be wasting both his and our time (much like an atheist cannot join a Presbyterian church or a Reformed Synagogue for the same reason).


Theos and afterlife beliefs

Much is often made of this point, that Masons believe in the existence of a Creator, and that the soul is eternal. Of course probably the vast majority of human beings who have ever lived and who live today have some form of metaphysical beliefs. Such "beliefs" are in fact common to "most" of humanity. It is quite common for the person with such beliefs to somehow believe that they who share such beliefs are "good" in some way. If we look back through history to the tyrants, dictators and Popes and to the human population in general who have shared such beliefs, it would appear that holding such beliefs is an entirely separate matter from that of moral philosophy; for after all many mass murderers and tyrants have shared these beliefs, and such beliefs are still held today by George ("God told me to invade Iraq") Bush, "Elizabeth (Jesus' representative on earth to all Anglicans) Windsor," and by a billion Muslims and a billion Christians whose militants are currently at war with each other, and indeed have been throughout history.



"What we bind on earth, we bind in eternity." Our enemies and allies on earth become our eternal enemies and allies.

Some Masonic cultists appear to believe that purchasing a Masonic degree will mean that the cultist will end up in the "Grand Lodge" in the afterlife with other Capitalists, state terrorists, paternalists, assorted economic parasites and the devotees of the god of Capitalism like themselves. Frankly that is a belief I share with them.

The Kabbalah: Ancient Knowledge.

We do not know for certain the origins of Kabbalistic philosophy, however it seems quite certain that it has been entwined into the many ancient and modern mystery schools, into the language of the ancient Israelites, into modern Neopaganism, into the modern Tarot system, and in all probability was a central "secret teaching of all the ages" going back to ancient Egypt and beyond that perhaps according to mythology, to the predeluvian (pre-flood) Atlantean civilization, however unfortunately ancient history is entwined in myths and Chinese whispers and the further back we travel in time, the less we are sure of what occurred.

The Curse

It should be pointed out also that there is allegedy a terrible and dreadful curse which falls on those who would profit by such knowledge and who would manipulate it for malevolent ends.


Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revoution, etc.

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Old 15-06-2010, 11:24 AM   #2
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LuciferHorus

I enjoyed reading that.

Are you able to speculate when those parts of the masonic world that appear detached form the ancient mysteries became so detached? Bearing in mind that many a mason will tell you that Freemasonry has nothing whatsoever to do with the ancient mysteries.

It does sadden me when I hear Freemasons call other Freemasons who do have an understanding of metaphysics as it applies to the Craft of Freemasonry "Freaks". Very sad.
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Old 15-06-2010, 12:24 PM   #3
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Firstly in the "operative" sense, both the Grand Secretary's Lodge "and" what you refer to as "traditional" Masonry are both clearly offering "fake" degrees; if it were otherwise, the degrees offered by both lodges would be accepted by architects, engineers and on any building site; not so with the degrees sold by Masons either of the Grand Secretary's Lodge, the Duke of Kent's Lodge or indeed any of their affiliated lodges; if it were otherwise such lodges would be accredited academic institutions. Thus the degrees of knowledge sold by Masonic Lodges and their pompous titles, are in the "operative" sense entirely "fake."
We do not have ANY degrees, fake or otherwise, and therefore we cannot and do not "offer" or "sell" any, especially not "operative" qualifications if you mean connected to the Mason's trade. This entirely false connection was made by Dr Anderson in order to suggest some "transition" from "operative" to "speculative" Moderns freemasonry and to separate it from the pure, original, and already existing form of Free Masonrie.

"The Ancient and Honourable Society and Fraternity of Free Masons meeting since time immemorial in the City of York."

Quote:
"From the circumstances, that Ashmole records his attendance at a meeting of the Freemasons held in a hall of the Company of Masons, a good deal of confusion has been engendered, which some casual remarks of Dr Anderson, in the Constitutions of 1723, have done much to confirm. By way of filling up a page, as he expresses it, he quotes from an old Record of Masons, to the effect that, "the said Record describing a Coat of Arms, much the same with that of the LONDON COMPANY of Freemen Masons, it is generally believ'd that the said Company is descended of the ancient Fraternity; and that in former Times no Man was Free of that Company until he was install'd in some Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, as a necessary Qualification." "But" he adds, "that laudable Practice seems to have been long in Dissuetude."

Preston, in this instance not unnaturally, copied from Anderson, and others of course have followed suit; but as I believe myself to be the only person who has been allowed access to the books and records of the Masons' Company for purposes of historical research, the design of this work will be better fulfilled by a concise summary of the results of my examination, together with such collateral information as I have been able to acquire, than by attempting to fully describe the superstructure of error which has been erected on so treacherous a foundation."

(SOURCE: Elias Ashmole and the Warrington Lodge by Robert Freke Gould)
See full article here: http://grandlodge.blogspot.com/2008/...ction-and.html

As you do not know what we do, why, and especially how we are structured and financed, (and neither does Mr King who is also merely assuming) you cannot suggest that we have ANYTHING in common with any system of degree based Moderns Freemasonry.
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Old 15-06-2010, 01:59 PM   #4
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Question; why are the Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross on these York Rite/Blue Degree lists? Are they not mostly Roman Catholic orders, and therefore non-Masonic? Could someone explain?
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Old 15-06-2010, 02:36 PM   #5
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We do not have ANY degrees, fake or otherwise, and therefore we cannot and do not "offer" or "sell" any, especially not "operative" qualifications if you mean connected to the Mason's trade. This entirely false connection was made by Dr Anderson in order to suggest some "transition" from "operative" to "speculative" Moderns freemasonry and to separate it from the pure, original, and already existing form of Free Masonrie.

"The Ancient and Honourable Society and Fraternity of Free Masons meeting since time immemorial in the City of York."



See full article here: http://grandlodge.blogspot.com/2008/...ction-and.html

As you do not know what we do, why, and especially how we are structured and financed, (and neither does Mr King who is also merely assuming) you cannot suggest that we have ANYTHING in common with any system of degree based Moderns Freemasonry.
OK GS, as very little is known about your "new religious movement," and the possibility of enquiry and research does not appear to exist, I will simply take your word for it and I will remove references to your Lodge "selling" degrees from the essay above.

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LuciferHorus

Are you able to speculate when those parts of the masonic world that appear detached form the ancient mysteries became so detached? .
Well the text cited by GS quotes "Dr Anderson, in the Constitutions of 1723" as stating "it is generally believ'd that the said Company is descended of the ancient Fraternity; and that in former Times no Man was Free of that Company until he was install'd in some Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, as a necessary Qualification." "But" he adds, "that laudable Practice seems to have been long in Dissuetude."

It seems to me that they were much like a group of mischevious public schoolboys who might create a "Greek Fraternity" and dress up as ancient Greeks and then try to claim that their traditions and rituals were the original Elusian mysteries as passed on from generation to generation until their time.

Similarly with much of the basic rituals of modern Neopaganism; they have been shown to be very modern literary "creations" which attempt to somehow revive the spirituality of the past, yet they are modern inventions.

I think that especially with the rise of the printing press and the publication of a great deal of both technical and esoteric knowledge that the secrecy of both Craft and esoteric organisations dwindled and ultimately with the coming of the industrial revolution, the rise of schools, universities, public libraries and now the great communications revolution of the Internet, "knowledge" which was once secret is broadcasted around the world.


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Bearing in mind that many a mason will tell you that Freemasonry has nothing whatsoever to do with the ancient mysteries.
I think they would be entirely correct in this respect. Having read my through the Masonic rites, I find them rather silly, boring and pompous. One simply cannot perform the "Great Rite" anyway without a High Priestess, and anyway Masonic rituals bear no resemblance to the Great Rite. Even in the few gay covens which exist the "High Priestess" position is taken by a male who takes a passive sexual role, but I find no evidence of such sex rituals in Masonry.

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It does sadden me when I hear Freemasons call other Freemasons who do have an understanding of metaphysics as it applies to the Craft of Freemasonry "Freaks". Very sad.
I am not surprised by that; my impression of the Masons, the Shriners and the assorted popular Masonic groups is that they are cults of Capitalists; they appear to be much more interested in the accumulation of Capital than of matters of metaphysics. I have on occasion met Freemasons at Pagan Federation conferences and moots which I have attended for the last few 10 years or so, but generally they seem to have very little to say and a great deal to learn; my general impression is that whatever "esoteric" knowledge they have has been gleaned from "outside" Masonry by their own research.


Lux

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Old 15-06-2010, 03:07 PM   #6
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It seems to me that they were much like a group of mischevious public schoolboys who might create a "Greek Fraternity" and dress up as ancient Greeks and then try to claim that their traditions and rituals were the original Elusian mysteries as passed on from generation to generation until their time.
We have made no such claim.
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Old 15-06-2010, 03:12 PM   #7
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We have made no such claim.
I was not referring to your own particular "new religious movement" of which very little is known. I was referring to the 18th century founders of modern Masonry.

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Question; why are the Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross on these York Rite/Blue Degree lists? Are they not mostly Roman Catholic orders, and therefore non-Masonic? Could someone explain?

Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross


The Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross are entirely separate organisations to York Rite Masonry whose Grand Master is the Duke of Kent; both the Malta and Red Cross rites have their own multi-level rites and their own Grand Masters.

However, when one goes through the York rite system, the 8th degree confers the title of "Knight of the Red Cross" and the 9th degree confers the title of "Knight of Malta," however as I understand it, these titles are give by the York rite to their members, not by the actual Grand Masters of the Knights of Malta or the Order of the Red Cross, which have their own separate organisations. These pompous titles are for amusement only and there is nothing to stop anyone giving anyone else these titles.

Knights of Solomon's Temple



The 10th level of the York Rite is the "Knight's Templars" which is allegedly another 33 degree system and whether that has another "Grand Master" above the Duke of Kent, I cannot say; for most English Masons it seems to be just a "title" which is bought and sold for amusement. I should point out that there are quite a few different cults in the world who claim to be the "Knight's Templars," and who sell degrees, inlcuding the Scottish Rite Masonic cult, who also claim to be the Knight's Templars.

Allegedly the full title of the 33 degree "Scottish Rite" Freemason cult is the "The Knights Commander of the House of the Temple of Solomon of the Thirty-Third and Last Degree of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry;" http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Arti...york_rites.htm.

Probably of all the cults who claim to have inherited the legacy of this medieval cult of loan sharks and genocidal crusaders, the Scottish Rite cultists probably have the most history and mythology with which to back up their claim, as there is sufficient historical evidence to prove that many of the Templars fled to Scotland at the time of the persecution of the French tyrant "Phillip the Fair." What remains of that cult today is a cult of Scottish Capitalists selling degrees, mostly to gullible Americans, but in Scotland, having grown up there, it is quite clear that they "are" the Capitalist establishment.

The Americans seem to give out 33 degree titles like sliced bread, however it should be pointed out that if you are debating with an American Scottish Rite Mason, that they are generally under the impression that they themselves are Knight's Templars.

Conferred only by the Supreme Council, 33, the Degree of Inspector General is a Templar degree throughout, in both substance and symbolism. The officers of the Supreme Council are the officers of a Grand Preceptory of Knights Templar, presided over by a Grand Commander. The symbol of the Grand Commander, the Salem Cross with crosslets, is the symbol of the Grand Master of Knights Templar.

The fact that the Scottish Rite is the spiritual descendant of “The Poor Fellow Soldiery of the Temple of Solomon” (The Order of Knights Templar), is best betrayed, however, in the full name of “The Supreme Council (Mother Council of the World) of the Inspectors General Knights Commanders of The House of the Temple of Solomon of the Thirty-Third Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry....
http://www.houstonscottishrite.org/?page_id=220

So essentially when debating with Masons, we are debating with a group of individuals who consider themselves to be the inheritors of a tradition of loan sharking and militant, genocidal crusading mayhem.

Solomon


Moses, despite his rather repressive and dictatorial laws, was a forefather of the modern republican system and set up a non-monarchial elected system of government which allegedly ruled in ancient Israel for 400 years after the Egyptian slave revolution; this is referred to as the period of the "Judges" where Israel was allegedly ruled by 12 and 144 elected Judges. This system was overthrown by Saul who re-initiated tyranny (monarchy); his kingdom was inherited by David and then Solomon.



"Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon." (1 Kings 11:7)



Solomon according to the myth built a Phonecian Temple in order that his hundreds of wives and concubines could offer sacrifices to their gods. There is absolutely nothing "Mosiac" about either the tyranny of monarchy or the construction of a Phonecian Temple. Further Solomon allegedly re-initiated the cult of human sacrifice. Why anyone would revere this tyrant is completely beyond me, but at least we can identify these vermin by their uniforms and the organisations which they are members of.


So many cults, so little time.

As is apparent from Grand Secretary's "Free Masonrie," anyone in the world can start an organisation and claim to be the the inheritors of an ancient legacy and tradition. The laws of "religious freedom" are such that anyone can claim to represent Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha or whoever they wish, they can then start attacking all other groups as heretics and they can sell salvation to their members, charge Lodge fees or membership fees and sell fake (non-accredited) degrees for the purposes of amusement only. What fun.

Commandante Zero. Perhaps we could start our own "One True Anarchist" religion and sell pompous and pretentious titles, offer salvation to the poor at low, low prices and slag of all other Anarchist groups as heretics and blasphemers?



My offer of 144,000 virgins in the afterlife still stands of course, to all Masons who repent and dedicate their lives to revolution against the evils of Capitalism, Government and organised religion.

Lucifer

Grand Commander of the armies of Heaven and Hell. Ex officio Christos, Defensor Fides, and numerous other pretentious and pompous titles.

Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

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Old 15-06-2010, 05:25 PM   #8
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I was not referring to your own particular "new religious movement" of which very little is known. I was referring to the 18th century founders of modern Masonry.

... As is apparent from Grand Secretary's "Free Masonrie," anyone in the world can start an organisation and claim to be the the inheritors of an ancient legacy and tradition. The laws of "religious freedom" are such that anyone can claim to represent Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha or whoever they wish, they can then start attacking all other groups as heretics and they can sell salvation to their members, charge Lodge fees or membership fees and sell fake (non-accredited) degrees for the purposes of amusement only. What fun.
We did not "start" anything, we revived The Grand Lodge at York in the crypt of The York Minster, which to my knowledge is not a pub. The Inner Temple of Free Masonrie has been continually in existence for well over 2,000 years, without a break.

We do not represent Jesus, Mohammad or Buddha. We do not sell salvation to our members. We do not charge Lodge Fees, or sell degrees.
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Old 15-06-2010, 05:37 PM   #9
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Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross

The Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross are entirely separate organizations to York Rite Masonry whose Grand Master is the Duke of Kent; both the Malta and Red Cross rites have their own multi-level rites and their own Grand Masters.

However, when one goes through the York rite system, the 8th degree confers the title of "Knight of the Red Cross" and the 9th degree confers the title of "Knight of Malta," however as I understand it, these titles are give by the York rite to their members, not by the actual Grand Masters of the Knights of Malta or the Order of the Red Cross, which have their own separate organizations. These pompous titles are for amusement only and there is nothing to stop anyone giving anyone else these titles.
Appreciate the clarification, Commandante, thank you; it is much clearer now.

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So many cults, so little time.

As is apparent from Grand Secretary's "Free Masonrie," anyone in the world can start an organization and claim to be the the inheritors of an ancient legacy and tradition. The laws of "religious freedom" are such that anyone can claim to represent Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha or whoever they wish, they can then start attacking all other groups as heretics and they can sell salvation to their members, charge Lodge fees or membership fees and sell fake (non-accredited) degrees for the purposes of amusement only. What fun.
Most amusing, yes, however I feel the Grand Secretary Peter Clatworthy should be commended in the very least for his cult's moderately successful rebellion against established 1717 Masonry, if indeed that is what they truly represent, and it is not all some vast deception of established Masonry for some clandestine purposes; it at least goes to show what can be achieved with a little ambition, money and a few cricket mates down the pub.

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Originally Posted by luciferhorus
Commandante Zero. Perhaps we could start our own "One True Anarchist" religion and sell pompous and pretentious titles, offer salvation to the poor at low, low prices and slag of all other Anarchist groups as heretics and blasphemers?

My offer of 144,000 virgins in the afterlife still stands of course, to all Masons who repent and dedicate their lives to revolution against the evils of Capitalism, Government and organized religion.
It is a fine and worthy idea, Commandante; indeed, I myself have tried something similar on here before, last year I attempted to start a private, internet-only, anti-establishment intelligence agency and information bureau; alas however, it was a dismal failure and I had to abandon the project. I had hoped to recruit a solid number of subversives espousing anti-capitalist, anti-government, anti-religious tendencies; but it was not to be, sadly. Such things surprisingly don't seem to work very well on the internet. See here, I'm sure you will find it most amusing, my friend.
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Old 15-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #10
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Question; why are the Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross on these York Rite/Blue Degree lists? Are they not mostly Roman Catholic orders, and therefore non-Masonic? Could someone explain?
The Masonic Order of Malta and Masonic Order of the Red Cross are completely different organizations from the Catholic Orders which have similar names. They are not given as amusement, as LH contends, but are quite serious, and are very impressive ceremonies.

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Old 15-06-2010, 06:21 PM   #11
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Most amusing, yes, however I feel the Grand Secretary Peter Clatworthy should be commended in the very least for his cult's moderately successful rebellion against established 1717 Masonry, if indeed that is what they truly represent, and it is not all some vast deception of established Masonry for some clandestine purposes; it at least goes to show what can be achieved with a little ambition, money and a few cricket mates down the pub.


Division and Conquest.

Well, for example, it has been established beyond all reasonable doubt that the Anglo-American state terrorist military dress up as Arabs and carry out terrorist acts; this simply accellerates the conflict between opposing Muslims factions. This is an age old military strategy.

See for example British Special Forces Caught Carrying Out Staged Terror In Iraq?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...agedterror.htm

I have always supported the conflict between Peter and other Masons here; indeed I have tried my best to encourage it; my only problem is that I really don't see Peter and his Masonic opponents bombing each other's lodges; their lack of militancy is rather dissapointing. I am entirely unconvinced that their mutual hatred will bring about revolutionary conditions.

I suppose that we will just have to make do with Masonic catfights and the exchanges of verbal abuse. Although I tend to avoid such exchanges myself, if there is anything I can do to assist the Masonic catfights, please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

In other essays here I think I have adequately offered evidence that Masonry and their side organisations represent a malevolent force among humanity and that they consider themselves to be represent the legacy of militant, genocidal crusading loan sharks.

Peter's organisation is of course unknown and secretive so I will have to suspend judgement, however he does claim to represent the legacy of the Druids, who were renowned for their human sacrifice cultism. I also demand the human sacrifice of the enemies of anti-Capitalist, anti-statist, anti-religionist revolution, however I am really not yet convinced that Peter's "new religious movement" is genuinely committed to the eradication of Capitalism, government, organised religion and the human sacrifice of the enemies of revolution, in particular the Masonic cultists.



If Peter were calling for the ritual slaughter of the York Rite Masons and the cultists of their associate Lodges, the destruction of their temples and so forth, I would be much more convinced.

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It is a fine and worthy idea, Commandante; indeed, I myself have tried something similar on here before, last year I attempted to start a private, internet-only, anti-establishment intelligence agency and information bureau; alas however, it was a dismal failure and I had to abandon the project. I had hoped to recruit a solid number of subversives espousing anti-capitalist, anti-government, anti-religious tendencies; but it was not to be, sadly. Such things surprisingly don't seem to work very well on the internet. See here, I'm sure you will find it most amusing, my friend.
Ah yes an excellent idea, but the International Revolutionary Vanguard already exists. It is only a question of time and apocalyptic human will before the conditions for revolution are created.

Lux


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Old 15-06-2010, 06:56 PM   #12
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The Masonic Order of Malta and Masonic Order of the Red Cross are completely different organizations from the Catholic Orders which have similar names. They are not given as amusement, as LH contends, but are quite serious, and are very impressive ceremonies.
You have witnessed these ceremonies, or is it that you have participated in them as one who has achieved these titular degrees?

Is there any crossover then, between the membership of the Catholic Knights of Malta/Red Cross and the Masonic degrees thusly named? I assume you will say "no", however, I find all of this very odd, frankly; it seems to me that one can identify a Knight of Malta or a Red Cross member as a Mason regardless of their religious affiliation.
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Old 15-06-2010, 07:24 PM   #13
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You have witnessed these ceremonies, or is it that you have participated in them as one who has achieved these titular degrees?
I was initiated into them many years ago, and since that time have participated in them. Both are preparatory degrees in the York Rite of Masonry for becoming a Masonic Knight Templar.


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Is there any crossover then, between the membership of the Catholic Knights of Malta/Red Cross and the Masonic degrees thusly named? I assume you will say "no", however, I find all of this very odd, frankly; it seems to me that one can identify a Knight of Malta or a Red Cross member as a Mason regardless of their religious affiliation.
That's true as far as Masonry is concerned, by the Roman Catholic Church is a different matter. The RCC is anti-Masonic in outlook and considers any Catholic who becomes a Mason to be ipso facto excommunicated.

Obviously, there are some nominal Catholics who are Masons, especially in the USA, and I know several. But these guys don't go to church anyway.

But the Sovereign Order of Malta is a strict catholic organization, and pays full homage to the RCC. Such individuals would be opposed to Freemasonry.

The origin of the Masonic Order of Malta is unclear, but appears to have had Rosicrucian influences. We know from the historical Rosicrucian documents that the order was unfriendly to Catholicism, and even called the pope "antichrist". As such, the Masonic Order of Malta and Roman Catholicism probably do not mix very well.

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Old 15-06-2010, 07:26 PM   #14
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If Peter were calling for the ritual slaughter of the York Rite Masons and the cultists of their associate Lodges, the destruction of their temples and so forth, I would be much more convinced.
Well, there's always tomorrow!
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Old 15-06-2010, 08:15 PM   #15
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Well, there's always tomorrow!
Won't happen. It is simply a harmless meaningless voluntary social passtime. Nobody forces anybody either to join or to stay. They do their thing, we do ours and NEVER the twain shall meet.

But at least it is now established that the Grand Lodge of All England does NOT sell degrees, fake or otherwise, we don't have any degrees and therefore cannot sell them.
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The Grand Lodge of All England has no connection with any other body, Masonic or non-Masonic unless supported by a written Treaty or Agreement ratified by a Convocation of The Grand Lodge of All England. grandsecretary speaks on behalf of The Grand Lodge of All England. He does not represent the policies or views of ANY other Masonic organisation.

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Old 15-06-2010, 08:48 PM   #16
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Won't happen. It is simply a harmless meaningless voluntary social passtime. Nobody forces anybody either to join or to stay. They do their thing, we do ours and NEVER the twain shall meet.
I, of course, was only joking. I'm not sure of LH's bombastic rhetoric is serious or if he's simply having fun. I'm leaning toward the latter.
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Old 15-06-2010, 09:59 PM   #17
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I was initiated into them many years ago, and since that time have participated in them. Both are preparatory degrees in the York Rite of Masonry for becoming a Masonic Knight Templar.
So did you then go all the way on to becoming a Masonic Knight Templar eventually?

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That's true as far as Masonry is concerned, by the Roman Catholic Church is a different matter. The RCC is anti-Masonic in outlook and considers any Catholic who becomes a Mason to be ipso facto excommunicated.

Obviously, there are some nominal Catholics who are Masons, especially in the USA, and I know several. But these guys don't go to church anyway.

But the Sovereign Order of Malta is a strict catholic organization, and pays full homage to the RCC. Such individuals would be opposed to Freemasonry.

The origin of the Masonic Order of Malta is unclear, but appears to have had Rosicrucian influences. We know from the historical Rosicrucian documents that the order was unfriendly to Catholicism, and even called the pope "antichrist". As such, the Masonic Order of Malta and Roman Catholicism probably do not mix very well
Humph. No comment.
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Old 15-06-2010, 10:02 PM   #18
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The Order of the Knights of Malta and the Order of the Red Cross are entirely separate organisations to York Rite Masonry whose Grand Master is the Duke of Kent; both the Malta and Red Cross rites have their own multi-level rites and their own Grand Masters. ........

The 10th level of the York Rite is the "Knight's Templars" which is allegedly another 33 degree system and whether that has another "Grand Master" above the Duke of Kent, I cannot say; for most English Masons it seems to be just a "title" which is bought and sold for amusement. I should point out that there are quite a few different cults in the world who claim to be the "Knight's Templars," and who sell degrees, inlcuding the Scottish Rite Masonic cult, who also claim to be the Knight's Templars.
For the record - HRH The Duke of Kent is the MWGM of the UGLE and not York Rite Masonry (which is a North American masonic system). He is also not the head official of either the Masonic Knights Templar or the Ancient & Accepted Rite (AASR) in England.

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Old 15-06-2010, 10:04 PM   #19
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I, of course, was only joking. I'm not sure of LH's bombastic rhetoric is serious or if he's simply having fun. I'm leaning toward the latter.
Masons have claimed in prior debates with me that their throat cutting and body quartering oaths are not incitements to ritual murder; a number of things have been suggested including that such oaths should be considered "symbolically," or that such oaths are not taken seriously, or that the language of such oaths implies that they are suicidal oaths rather than murder oaths.

I am not quite sure how a person can cut their own throat, tear out their own tongue and then quarter their body and bury it below the sand or burn it and scatter the ashes to the four winds (the details appear to vary according to the rite); but anyway in a similar fashion my demands that the Masons should be ritually slaughtered in a similar manner and their Temples torn down and the stones ground to ashes are not incitements to ritual murder; such statements should be taken "symbolically" or considered incitements to ritual suicide.

There is a joke in Scotland about a man who was found locked in a prison cell. His hands had been tied behind his back, his throat had been cut from ear to ear, his tongue had been torn out by the root and his body had been quartered. When the local coroner, who was himself a Freemason, summed up the the evidence at the Inquest, he stated "This is the worst case of suicide I have ever come across."

Personally my view regarding how the Masons should be disposed of is not entirely fixed; a number of ways could be considered, and I offer some suggestions below by by Bob Arson of the Church of Euthanasia. These suggestions should only be considered to be "symbolic" however, or suggestions as to how the Masons could carry out mass suicides.

The Church of Euthanasia



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Butchering the Human Carcass for Human Consumption
by Bob Arson


This is a step-by-step guide on how to break down the human body from the full figure into serviceable choice cuts of meat. As in any field, there are a number of methods to the practice, and you may wish to view this as a set of suggestions rather than concrete rules. You will notice that the carving of the larger or "commercial" cuts down into smaller specific or "retail" cuts will be only mentioned in passing, and not concentrated upon. Also, the use of human fat and viscera is generally avoided, and left only to the most experimental chef. These choices, along with recipes and serving suggestions, are nearly infinite in variety, and we leave them to you. We've found these guidelines to be simple and functional, but recognize that there is always room for improvement and we welcome your suggestions.
Before getting to the main task, it must be mentioned that the complete rendering of the human carcass requires a fairly large amount of time, effort, and space. If the consumer does not wish to go through the ordeal of processing and storing the bulk of the entire animal, an easy alternative is as follows. Simply saw through one or both legs at the points directly below the groin and a few inches above the knee. Once skinned, these portions may then be cut into round steaks of the carver's preferred thickness, cut into fillets, deboned for a roast, etc. Meat for several meals is thus readily obtained without the need for gutting and the complexities of preparing the entire form.

The human being (also referred to throughout culinary history as "long pig" and "hairless goat" in the case of younger specimens) is not generally thought of as a staple food source. Observing the anatomy and skeleton, one can see that the animal is neither built nor bred for its meat, and as such will not provide nearly as much flesh as a pig or cow (for example, an average 1000 pound steer breaks down to provide 432 pounds of saleable beef). The large central pelvis and broad shoulder blades also interfere with achieving perfect cuts. There are advantages to this however, especially due to the fact that the typical specimen will weigh between 100-200 pounds, easily manipulated by one person with sufficient leverage.



Here the caution in choosing your meal must be mentioned. It is VERY IMPORTANT to remember that animals raised for slaughter are kept in tightly controlled environments with their health and diet carefully maintained. Humans are not. Thus not only is the meat of each person of varying quality, but people are also subject to an enormous range of diseases, infections, chemical imbalances, and poisonous bad habits, all typically increasing with age. Also as an animal ages, the meat loses its tenderness, becoming tough and stringy. No farm animal is ever allowed to age for thirty years. Six to thirteen months old is a more common slaughtering point. You will obviously want a youthful but mature physically fit human in apparently good health. A certain amount of fat is desirable as "marbling" to add a juicy, flavorful quality to the meat. We personally prefer firm caucasian females in their early twenties. These are "ripe". But tastes vary, and it is a very large herd.

The butcher will need a fairly roomy space in which to work (an interior location is suggested), and a large table for a butcher's block. A central overhead support will need to be chosen or installed ahead of time to hang the carcass from. Large tubs or barrels for blood and waste trimmings should be convenient, and a water source close by. Most of the work can be done with a few simple tools: sharp, clean short and long bladed knives, a cleaver or hatchet, and a hacksaw.

Body Preparation: Acquiring your subject is up to you. For best results and health, freshness is imperative. A living human in captivity is optimal, but not always available. When possible make sure the animal has no food for 48 hours, but plenty of water. This fasting helps flush the system, purging stored toxins and bodily wastes, as well as making bleeding and cleaning easier. Under ideal conditions, the specimen will then be stunned into insensitivity. Sharp unexpected blows to the head are best, tranquilizers not being recommended as they may taint the flavor of the meat. If this is not possible without exciting the animal and causing a struggle (which will pump a greater volume of blood and secretions such as adrenaline throughout the body), a single bullet through the middle of the forehead or back of the skull will suffice.

Hanging: Once the animal is unconscious or dead, it is ready to be hoisted. Get the feet up first, then the hands, with the head down. This is called the "Gein configuration". Simple loops of rope may be tied around the hands and feet and then attached to a crossbar or overhead beam. Or, by making a cut behind the Achilles tendon, a meathook may be inserted into each ankle for hanging support. The legs should be spread so that the feet are outside the shoulders, with the arms roughly parallel to the legs. This provides access to the pelvis, and keeps the arms out of the way in a ready position for removal. It's easiest to work if the feet are slightly above the level of the butcher's head.

Bleeding: Place a large open vessel beneath the animal's head. With a long-bladed knife, start at one corner of the jaw and make a deep "ear-to-ear" cut through the neck and larynx to the opposite side. This will sever the internal and external carotid arteries, the major blood vessels carrying blood from the heart to the head, face, and brain. If the animal is not yet dead, this will kill it quickly, and allow for the blood to drain in any case. After the initial rush of blood, the stream should be controllable and can be directed into a receptacle. Drainage can be assisted by massaging the extremities down in the direction of the trunk, and by compressing and releasing, "pumping", the stomach. A mature specimen will contain almost six liters of blood. There is no use for this fluid, unless some source is waiting to use it immediately for ritual purposes. It acts as an emetic in most people if drunk, and it must be mentioned here that because of the eternal possibility of AIDS it is recommended that for safety's sake all blood should be considered to be contaminated and disposed of in some fashion. It is not known whether an HlV-infected human's flesh is dangerous even if cooked, but this is another item to consider when choosing a specimen, someone in the low-risk strata.

Beheading: When the bleeding slows, preparation for decapitation can be started. Continue the cut to the throat around the entire neck, from the jawline to the back of the skull. Once muscle and ligament have been sliced away, the head can be cleanly removed by gripping it on either side and twisting it off, separation occurring where the spinal cord meets the skull. This is indicative of the method to be used for dividing other bones or joints, in that the meat should generally be cut through first with a knife, and the exposed bone then separated with a saw or cleaver. The merits of keeping the skull as a trophy are debatable for two principal reasons. First, a human skull may call suspicious attention to the new owner. Secondly, thorough cleaning is difficult due to the large brain mass, which is hard to remove without opening the skull. The brain is not good to eat. Removing the tongue and eyes, skinning the head, and placing it outside in a wire cage may be effective. The cage allows small scavengers such as ants and maggots to cleanse the flesh from the bones, while preventing it being carried off by larger scavengers, such as dogs and children. After a sufficient period of time, you may retrieve the skull and boil it in a dilute bleach solution to sterilize it and wash away any remaining tissue.

Skinning: After removing the head, wash the rest of the body down. Because there is no major market for human hides, particular care in removing the skin in a single piece is not necessary, and makes the task much easier. The skin is in fact a large organ, and by flaying the carcass you not only expose the muscular configuration, but also get rid of the hair and the tiny distasteful glands which produce sweat and oil. A short-bladed knife should be used to avoid slicing into muscle and viscera. The skin is composed of two layers, an outer thinner one with a thicker tissue layer below it. When skinning, first score the surface, cutting lightly to be sure of depth and direction. The diagram of the skinning pattern is an example of strip-style skinning, dividing the surface into portions easy to handle. Reflect the skin by lifting up and peeling back with one hand, while bringing the knife in as flat to the skin as possible to cut away connective tissue. The external genitals present only a small obstacle. In the male the penis and scrotum can be pulled away from the body and severed, in the female the outer lips skinned as the rest of the body. It is important to leave the anus untouched at this point, and a circle of skin should be left around it. You need not bother skinning the hands and feet, these portions not being worth the effort unless you plan to pickle them or use them in soup. The skin can be disposed of, or made into fried rinds. Boil the strips and peel away the outer layer, then cut into smaller pieces and deep-fat fry in boiling oil until puffy and crisp. Dust with garlic salt, paprika and cayenne pepper.

Gutting: The next major step is complete evisceration of the carcass. To begin, make a cut from the solar plexus, the point between the breastbone and stomach, almost to the anus. Be very careful not to cut into the intestines, as this will contaminate the surrounding area with bacteria and possibly feces (if this does happen, cleanse thoroughly). A good way to avoid this is to use the knife inside the abdominal wall, blade facing toward you, and making cautious progress.

Make a cut around the anus, or "bung", and tie it off with twine. This also prevents contamination, keeping the body from voiding any material left in the bowel. With a saw, cut through the pubic bone, or "aitch". The lower body is now completely open, and you can begin to pull the organ masses (large and small intestines, kidneys, liver, stomach) out and cut them away from the back wall of the body.

For the upper torso, first cut through the diaphragm around the inner surface of the carcass. This is the muscular membrane which divides the upper, or thoracic, and the lower abdominal cavities. Remove the breastbone, cutting down to the point on each side where it connects to the ribs, and then sawing through and detaching it from the collar bone. Some prefer to cut straight through the middle, depending on the ideas you have for cuts in the final stages. The heart and lungs may be detached and the throat cut into to remove the larynx and trachea. Once all of the inner organs have been removed, trim away any blood vessels or remaining pieces of connective tissue from the interior of the carcass, and wash out thoroughly.

Remove the Arms: Actual butchering of the carcass is now ready to begin. Cut into the armpit straight to the shoulder, and remove the arm bone, the humerus, from the collar bone and shoulder blade. Chop the hand off an inch or so above the wrist. Most of the meat here is between elbow and shoulder, as the muscle groups are larger here and due to the fact that there are two bones in the forearm. Another way of cutting this portion is to cut away the deltoid muscle from the upper arm near the shoulder (but leaving it attached to the trunk) before removing the limb. This decreases the percentage of useable meat on the arm, but allows a larger shoulder strip when excising the shoulder blade. Purely a matter of personal preference. Cut into and break apart the joint of the elbow, and the two halves of each arm are now ready for carving servings from. Human flesh should always be properly cooked before eating.

Halving the Carcass: The main body is now ready to be split. Some like to saw straight through the spine from buttocks to neck. This leaves the muscle fiber encasing the vertebrae on the end of the ribs. The meat here however is tightly wrapped about the bone, and we find it more suitable (if used at all) when boiled for soup. Thus, our preferred method is to completely remove the entire backbone by cutting and then sawing down either side from the tailbone on through.

Quartering the Carcass: The halves may now be taken down, unless your preparation table or butcher block is very short. This is inadequate, and you will have to quarter while hanging, slicing through the side at a point of your choosing between rib cage and pelvis. Now is also the time to begin thinking about how you would like to serve the flesh, as this will determine the style of cuts you are about to make. These will also be greatly affected by the muscular configuration (physical fitness) of your specimen. First, chop the feet off at a point about three inches up from the ankle. The bones are very thick where the leg connects to the foot. You will want to divide the side of meat into two further principal portions: the ribs and shoulder, and the half-pelvis and leg. In between is the "flank" or belly, which may be used for fillets or steaks, if thick enough, or even bacon strips if you wish to cut this thinly. Thin and wide strips of flesh may also be rolled, and cooked to serve as a roast. Trim away along the edge of the ribs, and then decide whether you will cut steaks from the flank into the thighs and rump, and carve accordingly.

Cutting the Top Quarter: Although not actually 25% of the meat you will get, this is designated as one-fourth of the carcass as divided into major portions. You may trim away the neck, or leave it to be connected with the shoulder, or "chuck". The first major step with this mass is to remove the shoulder blade and the collar bone. The best and easiest way we have found is to just cut along the outline of the shoulder blade, removing the meat on top and then dislocating the large bone. To excise the collar bone make an incision along its length and then cut and pry it away. Depending upon the development of the breast, you may decide it qualifies as a "brisket" and remove it before cutting the ribs. In the female the breast is composed largely of glands and fatty tissue, and despite its appetizing appearance is rather inedible. The ribs are the choice cut of the quarter. An perennial favorite for barbecuing, you may divide into sections of several ribs each and cook them as is, divide the strip in half for shorter ribs, or even carve rib steaks if the muscle mass is sufficient.

Cutting the Lower Quarter: This is where most of the meat is, humans being upright animals. The muscle mass is largest in the legs and rump. The bulk is so comparatively large here that you can do just about anything with it. The main pieces are the buttock or rump and the upper leg, the thigh. Our typical division is to cut the leg off at the bottom of the buttock, then chop away the bony mass of the knee, at places two to three inches away in either direction. Before doing this, however, you may want to remove the whole calf muscle from the back of the lower leg, as this is the best cut in its area. The upper leg is now ready for anything, most especially some beautiful, thick round steaks. The rump will have to be carved from the pelvis in a rather triangular piece. The legs attach at the hip at a forward point on the body, so there will be little interference as you carve along the curve of the pelvis. Remaining meat will be on the thighs in front of the pelvis.

And that's basically it. An average freezer provides plenty of storage space, or you may even wish to build a simple old-fashioned smokehouse (just like an outhouse, with a stone firepit instead of a shitter). Offal and other waste trimmings can be disposed of in a number of ways, burial, animal feed, and puree and flush being just a few. Bones will dry and become brittle after being baked an oven, and can be pulverized.


___________________



It should be pointed out that the modern day Knight's Templars tend to be rather on the "large" size so extra large freezers many be required for storage, and that excess fat can also be melted and used instead of cooking oil for cooking side orders of French Fries.

Capitalism is not a Victimless Crime

On a more serious note, the victims of Capitalism are in thier billions. It is generally the view, I think, of most who are familiar with David Icke's work that the Masons are part of a global Capitalist conspiracy. This is also my own view. We are already living in World War Three and there have been numerous wars of Capitalist Imperialism since the end of World War Two. The intent is clearly the establishment of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism and the strenghtening of global police states.

In the UK it is certainly the case the many Masons are part of the economic, military and police state terrorist establishment, and their aristocratic Grand Master holds the highest rank in the state terrorist military. It is entirely to be expected that a group of cultists who revere an ancient cult of loan sharks and genocidal crusading militants would consider it approporiate to behave in the same manner in this age.

Lux

Grand Inquisitor. The Church of Enforced Euthanasia for selected Economic Parasites.

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Old 15-06-2010, 10:21 PM   #20
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Matthew McBlain Thomson was a Masonic charlatan - http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/biogra...thomson_m.html

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