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Old 09-06-2010, 01:55 PM   #1
britishnick
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Default My Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Reply letter

Got a PCN yesterday -
The council say
"Contravention: Parked in a residence or shared use parking space or zone without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place"

Any (quick) suggestion to my reply appreciated as I'm going to send it registered post this avo or take it there and get a signed receipt myself tomorrow. I haven't put my name on there becuase they haven't put it on their notice.

-----
XX Council
ADDRESS

9th June 2010
Re: PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE: [THEIR PCN NUMBER], dated 08/06/2010

NOTICE OF DISCHARGE OF OUTSTANDING PENALTY NOTICE AND REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION

One of you revenue agents appears to have left a “PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN)” on a private conveyance that I, a human being with flesh and blood, own. The PCN appears to have been served upon the private conveyance commonly known as [REG NUMBER], which for your information is not a human being and not in a position to contract or pay such a request.

That being said, I have administrative authority for the private conveyance on which your revenue collection agent left the Notice, so I would like to settle this matter promptly, but first I require clarification from someone at XX Council (XXC), which I am lawfully entitled to receive prior to making payment. I want to make sure that this PCN has not been written in error before settling any alleged debt, I’m quite sure XXC would do the same if someone asked them for some money.

It appears that XXC are trying to get someone to pay them a sum of money. I am aware that a PCN is an offer to contract, which I decline. If however you are under the impression that a contract or lawful obligation is already in place then I conditionally accept your offer to pay upon clarification and production of evidence of such a claim, detailed below.

I seek clarification so that I may act according to the law. I conditionally accept your offer to pay 70, or the discounted rate of 35 according to your offer, upon proof of claim of all of the following:

1. Upon clarification of who or what you are requesting to make the payment. (e.g. The private conveyance without the ability to pay, a user of the private conveyance, a legal fiction, corporation, a human being or some other entity.)
2. Upon proof of claim that there exists a lawful, signed two party contract with full disclosure including details obligating the payment of such PCN’s; and that if you can prove that said contract exists, you make presentation of a bill of exchange for the aforementioned amount.
3. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.
4. Upon proof of claim that I, a human being with flesh and blood, am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.
Failure to accept this offer to clarify and to do so completely and in good faith within Seven (7) days will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties abandon all demands upon me.

Proof and presentation must be sent via registered mail to “[ROAD, TOWN, POSTCODE]” no later than SEVEN (7) days from the date of receipt as dated by way of Royal Mail recorded delivery service. Further demands for payment thereafter by you or any third parties will be seen as a breach of Section 1 of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 if you fall into dishonour by failing to respond within the seven days.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity

Administrator for the private conveyance commonly known as [REG NUMBER].
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freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."

Last edited by britishnick; 09-06-2010 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-06-2010, 02:41 PM   #2
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Default I like it

Hi Nick

It looks pretty solid to me. I don't know what the council will think

Keep us informed regarding responses etc

Wishing you peace, love and eternal blessings
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:00 PM   #3
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nice one, thanks.

Yeah we'll see hey!
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freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:37 PM   #4
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il have ago at telling you the process

they will take your letter as an informal appeal, reject it and send you a notice to owner NTO

if you then dont submit a formal appeal to the parking adjudicator, they will send it to the bulk handling cnt and the depbt will be registered against you

and they will seek to recover it with attachment to earning orders and or by clamping your car taking possesion of your goods

you dont get a day in court and your letter is totally irrelevant to the whole process
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:53 PM   #5
rob menard
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I do not think they are going to like you....

Being all reasonable and responsible and not kowtowing to their whims.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by brianthebrain View Post
yada yada yada, stop asking questions, it's all for your own good, yada yada, don't peer behind the curtains, yada yada, if you step out of line you'll get in trouble blah de blah, just obey everything you're told blah de blah
Ah Brian, should have known I could count on you to ignore my request for assistance and go straight for the 'it's never going to work, get back in your box and be a good little boy' approach.
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freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:56 PM   #7
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I do not think they are going to like you....

Being all reasonable and responsible and not kowtowing to their whims.
That may be true, but fortunately I'm not entering a popularity contest here ;o)

but you reckon the letter seems alright?
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You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."

Last edited by britishnick; 09-06-2010 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
Ah Brian, should have known I could count on you to ignore my request for assistance and go straight for the 'it's never going to work, get back in your box and be a good little boy' approach.
thats because its never going to work, as the system gives it no chance too and this is the best assistance your going to get on here

think it through, at what point and to who are you going to say you cant take my car ive sent a letter ?

im quite happy for you to try, im just warning you in advance of the pitfall you face and ive not even charged you 250 dollars for my advice
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:03 PM   #9
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I'm telling you, he is not here for any other purpose then to disrupt discussion and turn it into debate with childish behaviour.

Some people for whatever reason fear these ideas, and seek to stop their propagation.

Some do it with very childish means.

You can see it here with brian repeatedly.

Why else do you think he is here? What would be the logical reason? There really are very few reasons anyone would frequent a forum such as this, and if it is not to learn, then it is to hinder learning.

Believe it or not some people do benefit greatly from the present level of ignorance. But they can't admit it, and do not want to see it changed. That is why they hide their identities. What if ALL these trolls were proven to be government agents, cops, lawyers, welfare recipients, or others who rely very heavily upon the various government teats. treats and special treatments?

I do nto believ they have any honestly held beliefs, as if they did they would engage in discussion, not merely seek to see it derailed.

Personally, I think your Notice is aces. It is reasonable, rational, and responsible. You are after all a very busy administrator, right?

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Old 09-06-2010, 04:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by rob menard View Post

Why else do you think he is here? What would be the logical reason? There really are very few reasons anyone would frequent a forum such as this, and if it is not to learn, then it is to hinder learning



learn ? from you you mean, Im far too wise and qualified to fall for your nonsense, that i take time out of my busy day to help others by warning of the problems they face in follow your advice, hardly makes me government agent

Ive told you before im a freelance adviser to firms who gives up my time for free, to help people in need

yesterday i was at tribunal, helping some one with a unfair dismissal claim and yes we won

and i didnt charge 200 dollars an hour, just a cup of coffee

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Old 09-06-2010, 04:18 PM   #11
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Personally, I think your Notice is aces. It is reasonable, rational, and responsible. You are after all a very busy administrator, right?

Sweet, cheers for that rob.
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freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:24 PM   #12
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Not sure how much of this is true as i've not checked it out, but i've heard you can return the PCN to the issuing office within 12 hours of its issue and it then becomes their responsibility... although this is probably a bit late 4 u now!

Nice letter by the way, but i've been fighting a PCN thats in the hands of the bailiffs now and they just won't leave me alone no matter what i put in writing. My car has since been scrapped anyway, but they have turned up at my house today and without knocking put a nasty letter through despite the fact I have revoked their right to visit me under English Common Law. Now i'm mad!
I've written back to them today with a fee schedule and presenting them with the potential of my dogs attacking them if they come onto my property again.
Does anybody think they will push it any further?
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
Got a PCN yesterday -
The council say
"Contravention: Parked in a residence or shared use parking space or zone without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place"
May i ask were you knowingly parked where you likely going to get a ticket?

I know probably not relevant to you but just asking.

I just want you to think if going down this road is going to cause you to get caught up in within a system you are trying to be free of, and cause you undue angst stress etc...

Maybe you will find less hassle by giving them your money, i am only saying you need to think what is best for you.

Whatever you decide i wish you luck.
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theabominablephenomenon View Post
Nice letter by the way,.....
Does anybody think they will push it any further?
Thanks. and to answer your question - I don't know. Sorry to hear you've had trouble, but if you start another thread and detail what's happened so far it'll be easier for you to get proper suggestions from people
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You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:45 PM   #15
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Maybe you will find less hassle by giving them your money, i am only saying you need to think what is best for you.
The point is I'm not for what I believe is easiest, I'm standing for what I believe is right.
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You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britishnick View Post
The point is I'm not for what I believe is easiest, I'm standing for what I believe is right.
Is standing up for what you believe is right going to be best for you / your family?
What im saying if i had just me to think about i wouldn't pay my TV license but that would not be best for my family.

It is not like you are on a moral crusade to expose child abuse etc. It is just a parking fine.

Last edited by precious_gold; 09-06-2010 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:19 PM   #17
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Is standing up for what you believe is right going to be best for you
Yes
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You all owe me a breathing tax - please pay up: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103303
freemanpete: "Freedom can't be spoon fed."
vladmir "Being a Freeman [for me] dosent mean one supports anarchy or no government, but a legitimate and limited form of Lawful government is actually what freemen are seeking, not a corporate dictatorship that is currently hijacked into place."
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:39 PM   #18
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read your You all owe me a breathing tax!! thread.

very funny
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Old 21-06-2010, 03:02 AM   #19
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hi, greetings from glasgow, i have sucsessfully used a verry similar notice 4 times now and the same thing has hapend each time, it has been sent to a debt collection agency, when this hapens u know ur home and dry as anytime b4 when i refused 2 pay or ignored the pcn i was taken to court 4 non payment.
when the debt collection agency contacts me i simply tell them i will b happy to pay if i am presented with a bill as only a fool would pay out money b4 being billed.
my next challenge is 4 a weed offence, i have been chrged with a criminal offence under a statutory jurisdiction..........however, i have since descoverd that statutory law is valid contracts vs invalid contracts and has no provision 4 criminal activity but i still have to look into this further.
any help on this matter would b greatly appreciated.
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Old 21-06-2010, 03:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianthebrain View Post
il have ago at telling you the process

they will take your letter as an informal appeal, reject it and send you a notice to owner NTO

if you then dont submit a formal appeal to the parking adjudicator, they will send it to the bulk handling cnt and the depbt will be registered against you

and they will seek to recover it with attachment to earning orders and or by clamping your car taking possesion of your goods

you dont get a day in court and your letter is totally irrelevant to the whole process
Ok so for the children in the room, I have colour coded this post to show how well you have done

Green = Well done, Gold star
Amber = Good work but needs some improvement
Red = Wrong! See me after class.

Yes they'll send you a letter talking some rubbish about how to "properly" make an appeal usig a form they'll send you, i.e. create the contract, joinder, accept liability etc
REPLY: You aren't and never did appeal, you conditionally accepted.

They'll pass it on after this to a debt agency or "court officer" to scare you into thinking it's very serious. The debt will not be registered agianst you, but rather the person/strawman/registered keeper
REPLY: LOL fuck off

I've had so many PCN's I can't remember them all. The furthest it ever went was when they sent 3 of them to the sherriff officer (Scotland) to persue me. It came to around 340 total, 90 per PCN and 70 legal charges. Guess how much i've paid!?

Here's what my final letter looked like, and yeh i left all my details in, so what:


NOTICE OF CEASATION FROM HARRASMENT AND FEE SCHEDULE



To
FRANK ALEXANDER
SCOTT & CO.
49 MEADOWSIDE
DUNDEE
DD1 1EQ

I am writing to you in response to your FORM OF CHARGE FOR PAYMENT OF MONEY that you have sent to KRISTOFER CALLANDER, for whom I am the authorised representative, regarding Penalty Charge Certificates issued by DUNDEE CITY COUNCIL.

I, Kristofer: Calllander: living soul, sui juris, am sure you are aware that notice was upon Dundee City Council for each instance in which a conditional acceptance to pay all charges fully, upon them providing a contract signed by both parties therefore binding both parties and a true hand signed bill as in accordance with the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 so that any lawful duties may be fulfilled.

Due to non-response from Dundee City Council, and by virtue of the notices served, permanent and irrevocable lawful estoppel by acquiescence was therefore achieved. (This is the bit that fucks any third parties who are called in)

Any further action, request or demands that are made on any of these instances may result in action being taken the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Also my FEE SCHEDULE for responding to any further actions will be 200 per letter, email written or telephone call taken and 2000 per hour, or part thereof, for any attendance to a place of business including, but not limited to, court or hearings.



Without malice or mischief,
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