Music evolution: Is this the end of the composer?

decode reality · 19-06-2012, 09:55 AM

Professor Armand Leroi from Imperial College London explains why he thinks a Darwinian computer program that can evolve music from noise could kill off the composer.

You might think that creating the perfect piece of music - whether it's a classical great, jazz masterpiece or pop hit - is all down to the composer's talent, flair or even genius.

Not so, according to Armand Leroi from Imperial College London.

"What we are trying to find out is whether you need a composer to make music," says the professor of evolutionary developmental biology.

"And we don't think you do."

He believes a much more fundamental force of nature is at work.

"We don't often think of music as evolving, but everybody knows it has a history and it has traditions. But if you think about it, it really has evolved, it is changing continuously," Prof Leroi explains.

full article, plus examples of the music he's talking about are at this link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18449939

the_ohmbudsman · 19-06-2012, 10:42 AM

Well for a start there was human intervention in this process, in which loops were removed after people chose ones they didn't like.

The final result is pretty basic electronic type music sequence, not exactly a masterpiece - like basic Kraftwerk or Techno.

It has a very long way to go before killing off the composer, a very, very long way!

mr_i_disagree · 20-06-2012, 12:55 AM

while music is made for 12 year old girls there is no need for any talent or ability.

torus · 20-06-2012, 01:01 AM

Why stop there prof?

"Well in a hundred years from now
They will attempt to tell us how
A scientific means to bliss
Will supercede the human kiss

A sub atomic chain
Will maybe galvanize your brain
A biochemic trance
Will eliminate romance"
-Sting

mr_i_disagree · 20-06-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torus

Why stop there prof?

"Well in a hundred years from now
They will attempt to tell us how
A scientific means to bliss
Will supercede the human kiss

A sub atomic chain
Will maybe galvanize your brain
A biochemic trance
Will eliminate romance"
-Sting

now,how,bliss,kiss,chain,brain,trance,romance, well they rhyme tell gordon its his best work in years, still cant get tantric in there tho.

torus · 20-06-2012, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_i_disagree

now,how,bliss,kiss,chain,brain,trance,romance, well they rhyme tell gordon its his best work in years, still cant get tantric in there tho.

I believe the lack of poetics is quite intentional in this case.

the_ohmbudsman · 20-06-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_i_disagree

while music is made for 12 year old girls there is no need for any talent or ability.

What kind of music are you talking about? There are many types not all for 12 year old girls!

decode reality · 22-06-2012, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_i_disagree

now,how,bliss,kiss,chain,brain,trance,romance, well they rhyme tell gordon its his best work in years, still cant get tantric in there tho.

It doesn't 'scan', as they say.

decode reality · 22-06-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_ohmbudsman

Well for a start there was human intervention in this process, in which loops were removed after people chose ones they didn't like.

The final result is pretty basic electronic type music sequence, not exactly a masterpiece - like basic Kraftwerk or Techno.

It has a very long way to go before killing off the composer, a very, very long way!

Yeah, but you've got to admire 'them' for having a damn good attempt at it.

grakkus · 22-06-2012, 09:49 AM

It's all complete rubbish. Music does not simply appear from sound. It is a process of the mind. The programme that was made to do this is a process of the mind, exactly as music composition is.

It is Darwinian in a sense that Darwin is balls.

mr_i_disagree · 23-06-2012, 12:13 AM

computer process can only replicate, not innovate.

19-06-2012, 09:55 AM	#1
decode reality Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: My world Posts: 11,380	Music evolution: Is this the end of the composer? Professor Armand Leroi from Imperial College London explains why he thinks a Darwinian computer program that can evolve music from noise could kill off the composer. You might think that creating the perfect piece of music - whether it's a classical great, jazz masterpiece or pop hit - is all down to the composer's talent, flair or even genius. Not so, according to Armand Leroi from Imperial College London. "What we are trying to find out is whether you need a composer to make music," says the professor of evolutionary developmental biology. "And we don't think you do." He believes a much more fundamental force of nature is at work. "We don't often think of music as evolving, but everybody knows it has a history and it has traditions. But if you think about it, it really has evolved, it is changing continuously," Prof Leroi explains. full article, plus examples of the music he's talking about are at this link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18449939

19-06-2012, 10:42 AM	#2
the_ohmbudsman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: London - UK Posts: 1,669	Well for a start there was human intervention in this process, in which loops were removed after people chose ones they didn't like. The final result is pretty basic electronic type music sequence, not exactly a masterpiece - like basic Kraftwerk or Techno. It has a very long way to go before killing off the composer, a very, very long way! Last edited by the_ohmbudsman; 19-06-2012 at 10:51 AM.

20-06-2012, 01:01 AM	#4
torus Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,954	Why stop there prof? "Well in a hundred years from now They will attempt to tell us how A scientific means to bliss Will supercede the human kiss A sub atomic chain Will maybe galvanize your brain A biochemic trance Will eliminate romance" -Sting __________________ freedom is an inside job Hastiness and superficiality are the psychic diseases of the twentieth century, and more than anywhere else this disease is reflected in the press. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

20-06-2012, 12:55 AM	#3
mr_i_disagree Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 447	while music is made for 12 year old girls there is no need for any talent or ability.

22-06-2012, 09:49 AM	#10
grakkus Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 857	It's all complete rubbish. Music does not simply appear from sound. It is a process of the mind. The programme that was made to do this is a process of the mind, exactly as music composition is. It is Darwinian in a sense that Darwin is balls.

23-06-2012, 12:13 AM	#11
mr_i_disagree Banned Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 447	computer process can only replicate, not innovate.