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Old 19-07-2008, 02:14 PM   #1
eternal_spirit
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Default Was Crowley a paedophile?

Ok I've started a new thread becasue the OTO thread has gone onto this topic

I was in for a surprise when Alex Sanders offered to show me his Wiccan temple. I was visiting the famous magician and self-styled King of the Witches at his cottage in the Old Town at Bexhill-on-Sea, in Sussex, in 1978, to interview him for a national magazine. He was pleasant and amusing and we'd already had a couple of drinks at his favourite nearby pub, The Bell.
‘This is where it all happens,’ he said with a mischievous smile as he opened the door to the temple. Remarkably, I found it was furnished almost completely with Christian items, including statues of Christ and the Virgin Mary.

‘Even some witches have told me it’s blasphemous to practise witchcraft in what looks like a Christian chapel‚’ he said. ‘But for me, Christ represents the Sun God and Mary the Earth Mother. Christianity and witchcraft may seem very different, but underneath they have a lot in common. I didn't deliberately gather all these Christian objects, I might add. It was quite strange. Soon after I moved in here, over a short period various people suddenly started offering them to me. Others were mysteriously left in the garden. It was as if some higher power had decreed that's how my temple should be.’

At the time, Alex, then aged 52, had a partner who was a young male civil servant.
'I love him utterly,’ he maintained. 'He was married to a beautiful girl, but she didn't stand a chance against me. He was dressed as a skinhead when I first met him four years ago, with the regulation shaven head, bovver boots and turned-up jeans. Today, he is a presentable young man. Women give me fulfillment, but I find happiness with men.'

His well known bi-sexuality, it's suggested, may have resulted from an experience as a boy with the infamous occultist and reputed 'Wickedest Man in the World', Aleister Crowley.
Sanders had been initiated as a witch, he claimed, at aged just seven, by his witch grandmother, Mary Bibby, whom he had chanced on standing naked in the kitchen in a circle drawn on the floor.

'She ordered me to strip naked and enter the circle,’ he recalled. ‘She carried out a ritual and then on her instructions, as I bent down with my head between my thighs she nicked my scrotum with a knife and said “You are one of us now.” She later gave me her Book of Shadows to copy into my own and taught me all the rites'.

At ten, she took him to London to meet Aleister Crowley, whom she knew.
'She left me with Crowley for the night and he carried out some of his sex magic with me,’ said Alex. 'It wasn't a very nice experience. To me, as a young boy, he was just a horrible, smelly, old man. Before I left he tattooed his “mark of the beast” on my hand. It's still there. It hardly
turned me off sex though.
At one time when I was still in London with my second wife, Maxine, I also had two mistresses and nine male lovers. It's a much quieter life here in Bexhill-on-Sea. My current coven is only five-strong and just one of them is a woman.'

Outrageous and a born showman as he was, Alex Sanders has to be credited with publicising modern witchcraft and, indeed, founding in the 196Os its flourishing Alexandrian branch of Wicca to rival the existing Gardnerian of Gerald Gardner. Although some of his magic was 'grey’, he insisted to me that most of it was 'white’, often aimed at healing people. He told me that
while at Bexhill he had helped a number of drug addicts to get off heavy drugs and cured a woman of cystitis by simply placing his hands on her head and 'willing her illness away'.
He also claimed to have used magic to help women with fertility problems and people just having trouble getting a job.

But with a wicked grin he did admit that on occasion he got rid of people's warts by magically transferring them to somebody else he didn't like. His favourite targets for this, he revealed, were passing traffic wardens! And friends maintained that he had only to whistle the funeral march at someone who had upset him to have them in hospital within the week.

(*Jack Pleasant adds: ‘I came to be fond of Alex Sanders and to consider him an entertaining friend. It pleased him when on occasion, I called on him bearing a bottle of the appalling, to my taste, cheap, sweet, white Spanish wine that he enjoyed. I missed him when he died in 1988, choosing the significant Wiccan date to pass on to the Summerlands of April 3Oth -
Beltane Eve.')

http://www.peacockangel.net/sanders.htm
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Old 19-07-2008, 08:40 PM   #2
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Old 19-07-2008, 09:33 PM   #3
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This is evidence?

Do you know how many people are going around pretending to be "Sons of Aleister Crowley"? Almost as many people as there are going around pretending to be reincarnations of him. He could have easily made this story up to give himself some kind of link to the most famous occultist of the 20th century and seeing he's gay, he might as well make it a sexual one. I really don't know how this guy has any creditility at all. Did he ever try to get revenge? Did he ever try to file action against him?

Face it, he would have never been interviewed if he didn't say he was raped by Crowley.

If he was raped he would have more to say than "He was just a smelly old man," to me this statement sounds like artifice to make the tail seem more credible. The Sweaty Old Man remark also makes it sound more like this is just one of his fantasies, like fantasising over making love to one of your sexy school teachers. I can just imagine that a kid might have the fantasy over his school teacher and then half accidentally lies to his friends that he actually had sex with her, so now this person is in a position where they have to make up close quarters remark about their body to give their lie credence, this sounds like the typical stupid remark a person might make up in that position (if I was in that position I would have said my teacher had a third nipple).

99% of people in that situation would have crafted a long and barbarous plan of revenge, not a sly remark that you might hear from a seedy gossip collumn about a playgirl bunny giving the lowdown on Hugh Heffener.

I would say better evidence would be his reference to sacrificing children in Book 4...Also the M/O of a person who believes they receive enlightenment by sacrificing animals will naturally look to the holy grail of sacrifices. Yet it would be extremely difficult for them to find a victim given their circumstances, plus all the other people will have to be "down with it" and I can't see all the pieces fitting together at the same time and place.

Have you more information on Sanders? If this is the best evidence of Crowley being a nonce then how the fuck am I being called part of the illuminati for just saying that the evidence here is ridiculous.

Last edited by chris; 19-07-2008 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 19-07-2008, 09:50 PM   #4
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And this is the evidence, the word of an outrageous showman, as is stated in the text? is this the ONLY piece of so-called evidence with which to make such a huge accusation against somebody just because you dont like their work?

Look at some of the other stuff he is supposed to have done, claiming to transfer peoples warts to those he does not like. It is clear he make outrageous claims so why believe him in the first place? how does getting your knackers cut suddenly make you an initiate into witchcraft, just like that? why would his granny order him to strip naked? his granny would stand accused of child abuse.

He does not state what this so called sex magic is. He certainly does not say he was physically touched, he just says he was a smelly old man. Why should we trust anything in this piece of text? if it was written by Sanders then you are left to believe it verbatim or not. If this writing is genuine then Sanders liked to revel in activities that are intended to shock peoples sexual comfort zones. Perhaps he was just trying to gain credibility for his own sex magical practices by trying to give the impression he had received some special initiation from someone who was probably dead when he made this accusation, and who was unable to deny it, being dead. He even says that this so called sex magic with a smell old man did not put him off sex. I think if you ever encounter people who have suffered sexual abuse that you will find their sex live are deeply damaged. Sanders claim in the article smacks of bullshit IMO.

The highly biased and mind programmed will naturally sieze this idea as conclusive proof that Crowley was a paedophile, but those of use who like to see accusations balanced by credible evidence will be unable to form a final conclusion due to such shabby accusations.

I still think you have a fixation with sexual deviance. Is this the side effect of being attacked by all those evil spirits after you were dabbling?

Last edited by marpat; 19-07-2008 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 19-07-2008, 10:21 PM   #5
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http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/stopchildrape.net/

The pyramid structure that allows widespread child abuse and satanic ritual sacrifice to be covered up.
The Illuminati place their operatives in key positions within the Social Services, the Police, judiciary, etc. to keep the lid on these global horrors.


(diagram from 'Suffer Little Children' - Children of the Matrix, courtesy of David Icke
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Old 19-07-2008, 10:43 PM   #6
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check this link for pictures of the initiation of Janet Owen into alex sander's coven..
http://sexy-witch.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:37 AM   #7
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I have made my feeling clear on this... its a random accusation.... nothing more... and more info is needed to take it really seriously seeing as he clearly has many people attack his name..

But

I will say even if this story was true... not that I am defending the act, as its obvious no one should dream of useing a 10 yo for sexual acts in any context...

But it would not mean he was a paedophile anyway...

It would have meant he used the child for a magick ritual...

this does not prove it was his own personal sexual desire... but the suposed rituals ingreadiant.

Like I say.... I will say it again so people do not try to attack my charchter ...

Im not say that would make the act ok as it would not and would have still been wrong.

But it would not have made him a paedophile.

IMO this guy is not being genuine.... and the way he brags about not being out off sex and stuff... he just does not seem to be very emotionally driven by the story... I personally dont by it...

It would not shock me if he did experiences a ritual with AC, But he was probebly much older than 10.. and willingly went into the ritual, but since has had reason to take some digs at Crowley.... that's my own feelings on it...

Not convinced.
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:56 AM   #8
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1) Alex Sanders was known for his tall tales, but this is the first time I've ever seen him (or rather someone else claim that he claimed) that he had sex with Crowley. Sanders did claim that he knew Crowley as a child, but this tale involves him acting as a babysitter and giving young Alex a "magic ring" which he apparently used to evoke spirits or something (and he was never able to prove or even provide any corroboration his claim and they're generally regarded by most as a lie); however he never claimed to have taught him anything about sex magick. And considering the infamy of the two individuals, if such a thing had taken place, or if Sanders at least went around claiming that consistently, it would be one of the most talked about and highly debated issue among occultists and wiccans and you would certainly be able to find more than one single source for it. (I've searched and there are no other sources for this claim.)

A couple of sources showing the "magic ring" story:
http://books.google.com/books?id=OZm...um=2&ct=result
http://logosresourcepages.org/Hallow...k/h_heroes.htm

2) I was going to go on and on upon the same route, but then I thought of something a bit more obvious to point out:

A quote from the article:
"Before I left he tattooed his “mark of the beast” on my hand. It's still there."

Crowley's "Mark of the Beast":
http://altreligion.about.com/library...smarkbeast.htm



------------------

Alex Sanders and his hands:

http://img3387.imagevenue.com/images..._123_519lo.jpg











----------------------

Where the hell is this tattoo supposed to be anyway? Between his fingers? Was it applied in invisible ink? No, the pictures aren't perfect, but if he had had Crowley's mark on his hand throughout the entirety of his life, do you really think nobody would've noticed, or have written about it, or better yet, have taken a picture of it? Get real.
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Old 20-07-2008, 08:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal_spirit View Post
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/stopchildrape.net/

The pyramid structure that allows widespread child abuse and satanic ritual sacrifice to be covered up.
The Illuminati place their operatives in key positions within the Social Services, the Police, judiciary, etc. to keep the lid on these global horrors.


(diagram from 'Suffer Little Children' - Children of the Matrix, courtesy of David Icke

this link does not prove Crowley done anything. Just accusations about stuff he wrote about.
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Old 20-07-2008, 08:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by soulja View Post
check this link for pictures of the initiation of Janet Owen into alex sander's coven..
http://sexy-witch.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html
Ha ha, awesome pic but I dont think that proves anything about this thread, do you?
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Old 20-07-2008, 10:28 AM   #11
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Ha ha, awesome pic but I dont think that proves anything about this thread, do you?
Ye man, I've gotta become a witch! In my mind I think of it being full of really fit women but in reality it's probably a different story...

It's a common practice on this forum that instead of admitting they are wrong or have no idea what they are talking about, they shower the post with pictures of similar significance yet add nothing to the conversation, I guess in the hope to trigger deep recesses of our minds that they are giving an abstract form of intelligent response. Check out the alchemy thead in the astrological forum for a perfect example of this
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Old 20-07-2008, 11:58 AM   #12
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Ha ha, awesome pic but I dont think that proves anything about this thread, do you?
no of course not, i posted it to add some info about sanders.

and to make you wannabe witches jealous
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Old 20-07-2008, 12:05 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by chris View Post

It's a common practice on this forum that instead of admitting they are wrong or have no idea what they are talking about, they shower the post with pictures of similar significance yet add nothing to the conversation, I guess in the hope to trigger deep recesses of our minds that they are giving an abstract form of intelligent response. Check out the alchemy thead in the astrological forum for a perfect example of this
lol, there you go assuming shit again. how can you be so arrogant while always be so off target ? it's tragic, just tragic..

first you assumed i believe the guy cos i don't like crowley and will believe just about everything negative said about him. then i showed you were wrong and explained my reasons to you wich you ignored instead you ''attested'' me believing in mainstream conspiracy theories.

and now you assume i posted the link to prove crowley was a pedo.

you're a clown..
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Old 20-07-2008, 12:44 PM   #14
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lol, there you go assuming shit again. how can you be so arrogant while always be so off target ? it's tragic, just tragic..

first you assumed i believe the guy cos i don't like crowley and will believe just about everything negative said about him. then i showed you were wrong and explained my reasons to you wich you ignored instead you ''attested'' me believing in mainstream conspiracy theories.
You said the reason for your idiotic belief that Sanders was raped by Crowley was because of your great understanding of the illuminati Please understand why I don't take you very seriously. If I were you I'd rather have just believed Sanders because I wanted to because it's a common mistake for people to fall in love with a theory. It happens all the time, no biggy.

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and now you assume i posted the link to prove crowley was a pedo.

you're a clown..
How could I assume that the link you posted was about Crowley being a pedo when I clicked on the link and looked through it, how else could I make the above comment about sexy witches?

All I was saying was that when people are proven themselves to be an dunce in that particular subject, rather than shutting up, they usually make off-topic posts, usually consisting of pictures. You could argue that the post was on topic because it was about the supposed victim but the post doesn't add anything to the Crowley debate. It actually discredits Sanders even more to be honest.
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Old 20-07-2008, 12:50 PM   #15
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1)

A couple of sources showing the "magic ring" story:
http://books.google.com/books?id=OZm...um=2&ct=result
http://logosresourcepages.org/Hallow...k/h_heroes.htm

2) I was going to go on and on upon the same route, but then I thought of something a bit more obvious to point out:

A quote from the article:
"Before I left he tattooed his “mark of the beast” on my hand. It's still there."

Crowley's "Mark of the Beast":
http://altreligion.about.com/library...smarkbeast.htm



Appropriate imagery for such a total bell-end.
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:25 PM   #16
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You said the reason for your idiotic belief that Sanders was raped by Crowley was because of your great understanding of the illuminati Please understand why I don't take you very seriously. If I were you I'd rather have just believed Sanders because I wanted to because it's a common mistake for people to fall in love with a theory. It happens all the time, no biggy.
then you can't take springmeier, wheeler, svali, icke and a bunch of others also not seriously cos it's pretty much the same understanding.
anyway, i tried to take you serious but seeing as all you seem to do is assuming shit and telling people they believe in mainstream conspiracy theories and should read links you give them cos you're such a veteran with an real outlook on things, all the while displaying no knowledge on the illuminati whatsoever other than going on about dyncorp - i honestly can't.

maybe you should do some research on the illuminati but then your reasoning lacks depth so i doubt it would be worthwhile.
i mean you said sanders would never have been interviewed if it wasn't for the crowley allegations wich shows how little you know about the subject you comment on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
How could I assume that the link you posted was about Crowley being a pedo when I clicked on the link and looked through it, how else could I make the above comment about sexy witches?

All I was saying was that when people are proven themselves to be an dunce in that particular subject, rather than shutting up, they usually make off-topic posts, usually consisting of pictures. You could argue that the post was on topic because it was about the supposed victim but the post doesn't add anything to the Crowley debate. It actually discredits Sanders even more to be honest.
lol, you wrote that while you quoted marpat whos question was directed a me.
so you then saying when people have nothing to say they post off topic links with a bunch of pictures wasn't aimed at me ? or at least ''inspired'' by me ?

sure
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:33 PM   #17
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then you can't take springmeier, wheeler, svali, icke and a bunch of others also not seriously cos it's pretty much the same understanding.
anyway, i tried to take you serious but seeing as all you seem to do is assuming shit and telling people they believe in mainstream conspiracy theories and should read links you give them cos you're such a veteran with an real outlook on things, all the while displaying no knowledge on the illuminati whatsoever other than going on about dyncorp - i honestly can't.

maybe you should do some research on the illuminati but then your reasoning lacks depth so i doubt it would be worthwhile.
i mean you said sanders would never have been interviewed if it wasn't for the crowley allegations wich shows how little you know about the subject you comment on.




lol, you wrote that while you quoted marpat whos question was directed a me.
so you then saying when people have nothing to say they post off topic links with a bunch of pictures wasn't aimed at me ? or at least ''inspired'' by me ?

sure
I am interested to know your age?

as you seem more interested in creating silly arguments than the subject in hand.
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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Old 20-07-2008, 01:56 PM   #19
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so thirdwave you deleted your post telling EP he ran out of silly comments to instead ask for my age because i'm so interested to create silly arguments.

is that about right ?

just to clear that up, i'm only responding to chris if that's okay?

but next time someone tells you you're making idiotic statements and other things along that line i'll remember you to not respond cos that would make YOU being interested in creating silly arguments.
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Old 20-07-2008, 02:03 PM   #20
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lol, there you go assuming shit again. how can you be so arrogant while always be so off target ? it's tragic, just tragic..

first you assumed i believe the guy cos i don't like crowley and will believe just about everything negative said about him. then i showed you were wrong and explained my reasons to you wich you ignored instead you ''attested'' me believing in mainstream conspiracy theories.

and now you assume i posted the link to prove crowley was a pedo.

you're a clown..
Seems as if you posted it because, like, OMG THEY'RE NEKKID! He must've been raped to engage in such deviancy.

If you really aren't sexually prude, and don't truly believe that sex is fundamentally evil, then you should be aware that that's how you're coming across.
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