Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Health / Nutrition / Diet / Alternative Therapies / Healing
Register FAQ Chat Social Groups Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2013, 08:41 PM   #1
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Question Borax advice

I like to buy some borax but before I do I like to know wheres the best place and best form to get it in?

However is this stuff safe? If insects can die from it then hows it safe for human consumption?
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 09:57 PM   #2
Fishin
Senior Member
 
Fishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by very_452001 View Post
I like to buy some borax but before I do I like to know wheres the best place and best form to get it in?

However is this stuff safe? If insects can die from it then hows it safe for human consumption?
If you give insects too much salt they can die from it.

So how's it safe for human consumption?
__________________
"The USA became like Mordor in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: An empire of pure, unadulterated evil."
~ Dr. Kevin Barrett
Fishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #3
super glue
Senior Member
 
super glue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 5,004
Default

You do not want to be consuming borax period, it destroys red blood cells and you as well.

What do you want it for?
__________________
http://www.mardale.green.talktalk.net

I am like a pelican in the wilderness, I am like an owl of the desert, I watch and am as a sparrow alone on the house top.
super glue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 10:47 PM   #4
steve777
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 197
Default

You may want to try the supplement Boron which is said to be safer than Borax. Here is a good one: http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Boron...0-Capsules/428

As for consuming Borax it seems there are some benefits but each person has to decide for themselves:

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm

Last edited by steve777; 07-07-2013 at 10:53 PM.
steve777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 11:51 PM   #5
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by super glue View Post
You do not want to be consuming borax period, it destroys red blood cells and you as well.

What do you want it for?
theres thread on these forums somewhere stating the wonders of borax for health.

Thinking of using it for arthritis.
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 05:39 AM   #6
Fishin
Senior Member
 
Fishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,127
Default

Borax is less toxic than salt (see below), but it does have some toxicity and you do have to be very careful with the dosage.

"Toxicity Issues

Government health agencies are concerned about boron toxicity. You might be concerned as well if you read the following, pertaining to sodium chloride (or more commonly known as table salt (17):

'Acute oral toxicity (LD50 - the dose at which half of the tested animals die): 3,000 mg/kg [Rat]. Chronic Effects on Humans: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact, ingestion or inhalation. Lowest Published Lethal Oral Dose in Man: 1000 mg/kg. Causes adverse reproductive effects in humans (fetotoxicity, abortion) by intraplacental route, may increase risk of Toxemia of Pregnancy in susceptible women. May cause adverse reproductive effects and birth defects in animals, particularly rats and mice - fetotoxicity, abortion, musculoskeletal abnormalities, and maternal effects (on ovaries, fallopian tubes). May affect genetic material (mutagenic). Ingestion of large quantities can irritate the stomach with nausea and vomiting. May affect behavior (muscle spasicity/contraction, somnolence), sense organs, metabolism, and cardiovascular system. Continued exposure may produce dehydration, internal organ congestion, and coma.'

Now compare the sodium chloride toxicity with the Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS for borax (18):

'Low acute oral toxicity; LD50 in rats 4,500 to 6,000 mg/kg of body weight. Reproductive/developmental toxicity: Animal feeding studies in rat, mouse and dog, at high doses, have demonstrated effects on fertility and testes. Studies with boric acid in the rat, mouse and rabbit, at high doses, demonstrate developmental effects on the fetus, including fetal weight loss and minor skeletal variations. The doses administered were many times in excess of those to which humans would normally be exposed. No evidence of carcinogenicity in mice. No mutagenic activity was observed in a battery of short-term mutagenicity assays. Human epidemiological studies show no increase in pulmonary disease in occupational populations with chronic exposures to borate dust and no effect on fertility.'

Here you see that table salt is 50 to 100% more toxic than borax. Table salt changes the genetic material and is mutagenic, while borax is harmless in this regard. Infants are most at risk from high borax ingestion. It has been estimated that 5 to 10 grams can cause severe vomiting, diarrhoea, shock and even death, but it also says that lethal doses are not well documented in the literature."

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/borax...y03jul12.shtml

From that same website comes the following information. I do not know whether it is accurate or not:

"Firstly, dissolve a lightly rounded teaspoonful (5-6 grams) of borax in 1 litre of good quality water free of chlorine and fluoride. This is your concentrated solution. Keep the bottle out of reach of small children.

Standard dose = 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of concentrate. This has 25 to 30 mg of borax and provides about 3 mg of boron. Take 1 dose per day mixed with drink or food. If that feels right then take a second dose with another meal. If there is no specific health problem or as a maintenance dose you may continue indefinitely with 1 or 2 doses daily.

If you do have a problem, such as arthritis, osteoporosis and related conditions, menopause, stiffness due to advancing years, and also to improve low sex hormone production, increase intake to 3 or more spaced-out standard doses for several months or longer until you feel that your problem has sufficiently improved. Then drop back to 1 or 2 doses per day.

If you want to try the higher doses recommended by Earth Clinic for treating Candida and removing fluoride from the body - using your bottle of concentrated solution - then use:

Lower dose for low to normal weight - 100 ml (= 1/8 teaspoon of borax powder); drink spaced out during the day.

Higher dose for heavier individuals - 200 ml (= 1/4 teaspoon of borax powder); drink spaced out during the day.

Always start with a standard dose and increase gradually to the intended maximum. Take the maximum amounts for 4 or 5 days a week as long as required.

Borax is rather alkaline and in higher concentrations has a soapy taste. You may disguise this with lemon juice, vinegar or ascorbic acid. Keep the bottle with the concentrated solution out of reach of small children.

Borax and boric acid have been classified as reproductive poisons in Europe, and since December 2010 are no longer available to the public within the EU.

Presently, borax is still available in Switzerland (15), but shipment to Germany is not permitted. In Germany a small amount (20 - 50 grams) may be ordered through a pharmacy as ant poison (it will be registered).

Boron tablets can be bought from health shops or the Internet, commonly with 3 mg of boron. These contain tightly bound boron not present in ionic form as with borax or boric acid. While suitable as a general boron supplement, I do not expect them to work against Candida and mycoplasmas, or as a quick arthritis, osteoporosis or menopause cure. Most scientific studies and individual experiences were with borax or boric acid. To improve effectiveness, I recommend 3 or more spaced-out boron tablets daily for an extended period combined with sufficient magnesium and a suitable antimicrobial program."

We do have a boarx thread here that you should read.
__________________
"The USA became like Mordor in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: An empire of pure, unadulterated evil."
~ Dr. Kevin Barrett
Fishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 07:39 AM   #7
super glue
Senior Member
 
super glue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 5,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by very_452001 View Post
theres thread on these forums somewhere stating the wonders of borax for health.

Thinking of using it for arthritis.
Which kind of arthritis, there are several kinds.
__________________
http://www.mardale.green.talktalk.net

I am like a pelican in the wilderness, I am like an owl of the desert, I watch and am as a sparrow alone on the house top.
super glue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 01:14 PM   #8
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
Borax is less toxic than salt (see below), but it does have some toxicity and you do have to be very careful with the dosage.

"Toxicity Issues

Government health agencies are concerned about boron toxicity. You might be concerned as well if you read the following, pertaining to sodium chloride (or more commonly known as table salt (17):

'Acute oral toxicity (LD50 - the dose at which half of the tested animals die): 3,000 mg/kg [Rat]. Chronic Effects on Humans: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact, ingestion or inhalation. Lowest Published Lethal Oral Dose in Man: 1000 mg/kg. Causes adverse reproductive effects in humans (fetotoxicity, abortion) by intraplacental route, may increase risk of Toxemia of Pregnancy in susceptible women. May cause adverse reproductive effects and birth defects in animals, particularly rats and mice - fetotoxicity, abortion, musculoskeletal abnormalities, and maternal effects (on ovaries, fallopian tubes). May affect genetic material (mutagenic). Ingestion of large quantities can irritate the stomach with nausea and vomiting. May affect behavior (muscle spasicity/contraction, somnolence), sense organs, metabolism, and cardiovascular system. Continued exposure may produce dehydration, internal organ congestion, and coma.'

Now compare the sodium chloride toxicity with the Material Safety Data Sheet or MSDS for borax (18):

'Low acute oral toxicity; LD50 in rats 4,500 to 6,000 mg/kg of body weight. Reproductive/developmental toxicity: Animal feeding studies in rat, mouse and dog, at high doses, have demonstrated effects on fertility and testes. Studies with boric acid in the rat, mouse and rabbit, at high doses, demonstrate developmental effects on the fetus, including fetal weight loss and minor skeletal variations. The doses administered were many times in excess of those to which humans would normally be exposed. No evidence of carcinogenicity in mice. No mutagenic activity was observed in a battery of short-term mutagenicity assays. Human epidemiological studies show no increase in pulmonary disease in occupational populations with chronic exposures to borate dust and no effect on fertility.'

Here you see that table salt is 50 to 100% more toxic than borax. Table salt changes the genetic material and is mutagenic, while borax is harmless in this regard. Infants are most at risk from high borax ingestion. It has been estimated that 5 to 10 grams can cause severe vomiting, diarrhoea, shock and even death, but it also says that lethal doses are not well documented in the literature."

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/borax...y03jul12.shtml

From that same website comes the following information. I do not know whether it is accurate or not:

"Firstly, dissolve a lightly rounded teaspoonful (5-6 grams) of borax in 1 litre of good quality water free of chlorine and fluoride. This is your concentrated solution. Keep the bottle out of reach of small children.

Standard dose = 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of concentrate. This has 25 to 30 mg of borax and provides about 3 mg of boron. Take 1 dose per day mixed with drink or food. If that feels right then take a second dose with another meal. If there is no specific health problem or as a maintenance dose you may continue indefinitely with 1 or 2 doses daily.

If you do have a problem, such as arthritis, osteoporosis and related conditions, menopause, stiffness due to advancing years, and also to improve low sex hormone production, increase intake to 3 or more spaced-out standard doses for several months or longer until you feel that your problem has sufficiently improved. Then drop back to 1 or 2 doses per day.

If you want to try the higher doses recommended by Earth Clinic for treating Candida and removing fluoride from the body - using your bottle of concentrated solution - then use:

Lower dose for low to normal weight - 100 ml (= 1/8 teaspoon of borax powder); drink spaced out during the day.

Higher dose for heavier individuals - 200 ml (= 1/4 teaspoon of borax powder); drink spaced out during the day.

Always start with a standard dose and increase gradually to the intended maximum. Take the maximum amounts for 4 or 5 days a week as long as required.

Borax is rather alkaline and in higher concentrations has a soapy taste. You may disguise this with lemon juice, vinegar or ascorbic acid. Keep the bottle with the concentrated solution out of reach of small children.

Borax and boric acid have been classified as reproductive poisons in Europe, and since December 2010 are no longer available to the public within the EU.

Presently, borax is still available in Switzerland (15), but shipment to Germany is not permitted. In Germany a small amount (20 - 50 grams) may be ordered through a pharmacy as ant poison (it will be registered).

Boron tablets can be bought from health shops or the Internet, commonly with 3 mg of boron. These contain tightly bound boron not present in ionic form as with borax or boric acid. While suitable as a general boron supplement, I do not expect them to work against Candida and mycoplasmas, or as a quick arthritis, osteoporosis or menopause cure. Most scientific studies and individual experiences were with borax or boric acid. To improve effectiveness, I recommend 3 or more spaced-out boron tablets daily for an extended period combined with sufficient magnesium and a suitable antimicrobial program."

We do have a boarx thread here that you should read.
So Boron pills are useless for arthritis?

Im afraid to order borax in its original form just in case of overdose and dying.
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 06:34 PM   #9
steve777
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 197
Default

"To improve effectiveness, I recommend 3 or more spaced-out boron tablets daily for an extended period combined with sufficient magnesium and a suitable antimicrobial program."

They recommend 3 Boron tabs spaced throughout the day with magnesium to help with arthritis.
steve777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 10:02 PM   #10
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve777 View Post
"To improve effectiveness, I recommend 3 or more spaced-out boron tablets daily for an extended period combined with sufficient magnesium and a suitable antimicrobial program."

They recommend 3 Boron tabs spaced throughout the day with magnesium to help with arthritis.
Can you get boron and magnesium combined in a pill? What is a antimrobial program?
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2013, 02:48 AM   #11
Fishin
Senior Member
 
Fishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by very_452001 View Post
So Boron pills are useless for arthritis?

Im afraid to order borax in its original form just in case of overdose and dying.
It doesn't say the pills are useless, just that they act more slowly.
__________________
"The USA became like Mordor in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: An empire of pure, unadulterated evil."
~ Dr. Kevin Barrett
Fishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #12
surfsteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 552
Default

I see no evidence that any of the other sources of borax are superior to 20 Mule team. The only thing I foresee is that a person with a whole box of borax would be incline to take more than someone with a bottle of 3 mg pills. If your goal is to take 3 mg a day of borax it would probably be in the neighborhood of dissolving a pinch of borax in water, taking a sip and throwing the rest away. If you're worried about over dosing on that much you're probably paranoid. Some arthritis folk remedies go up to a quarter teaspoon per day. I tried half that much and shit my brains out the first time I tried borax. It also had a drastic effect on releasing mucus. I wished I'd started with a lot less. One small pinch per day is plenty for me. I'd probably take more if I had arthritis and see if it cured it, but I don't have any of the symptoms.
surfsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 05:28 AM   #13
Fishin
Senior Member
 
Fishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfsteve View Post
I see no evidence that any of the other sources of borax are superior to 20 Mule team. The only thing I foresee is that a person with a whole box of borax would be incline to take more than someone with a bottle of 3 mg pills. If your goal is to take 3 mg a day of borax it would probably be in the neighborhood of dissolving a pinch of borax in water, taking a sip and throwing the rest away. If you're worried about over dosing on that much you're probably paranoid. Some arthritis folk remedies go up to a quarter teaspoon per day. I tried half that much and shit my brains out the first time I tried borax. It also had a drastic effect on releasing mucus. I wished I'd started with a lot less. One small pinch per day is plenty for me. I'd probably take more if I had arthritis and see if it cured it, but I don't have any of the symptoms.
I think that is definitely a big psychological issue regarding the whole box of borax. It tends to make people want to take more. Thanks for posting your experience.
__________________
"The USA became like Mordor in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: An empire of pure, unadulterated evil."
~ Dr. Kevin Barrett
Fishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #14
surfsteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 552
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
I think that is definitely a big psychological issue regarding the whole box of borax. It tends to make people want to take more. Thanks for posting your experience.
That's because people are stupid. They try and make laws to prevent stupidity from occurring but because they are stupid their stupid laws only make things worse.
surfsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #15
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfsteve View Post
I see no evidence that any of the other sources of borax are superior to 20 Mule team. The only thing I foresee is that a person with a whole box of borax would be incline to take more than someone with a bottle of 3 mg pills. If your goal is to take 3 mg a day of borax it would probably be in the neighborhood of dissolving a pinch of borax in water, taking a sip and throwing the rest away. If you're worried about over dosing on that much you're probably paranoid. Some arthritis folk remedies go up to a quarter teaspoon per day. I tried half that much and shit my brains out the first time I tried borax. It also had a drastic effect on releasing mucus. I wished I'd started with a lot less. One small pinch per day is plenty for me. I'd probably take more if I had arthritis and see if it cured it, but I don't have any of the symptoms.
isnt 20 Mule team just the same as borax?
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 03:11 PM   #16
surfsteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 552
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by very_452001 View Post
isnt 20 Mule team just the same as borax?
Yes. 20 Mule Team is just a brand name of borax. It is also the most common one so I often use it generically. As far as I know there are 3 common types of boron. Elemental, borax and boric acid. Borax is the most desirable and absorbable because of it's alkaline PH and the elemental is the least. If you buy a supplement it could come from either of the 3 sources. Hopefully the source is listed on the label.
surfsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #17
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

can i buy 20 mule or is borax overall banned in the uk?
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 07:04 PM   #18
surfsteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 552
Default

As far as I know it is but here's an article asking if it is about to be banned.

http://mistralhowto.blogspot.com/201...ned-in-uk.html

Sounds like it's legal there
Quote:
Whether or not Borax will make it to the end of the REACH process and become completely restricted is still very much uncertain. Until then it remains legal to buy and sell Borax provided that it is correctly labelled and packaged with the appropriate hazard warnings. You can buy Borax online here. Even if Borates themselves are restricted in the future under REACH, exemptions will probably be made for certain applications [3]. For example the concentration of boric acid used in laundry detergents is much less than the limit imposed by EU classification.
The beginning of the article it says they fed rats 5.5% borax and it messed with their reproductive functions and that, that's why they want to ban it. Sheesh that's retarded! "Would you like a side of 5.5% borax with them fries?" What part of "trace" mineral do they not understand?
surfsteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2013, 04:05 AM   #19
Fishin
Senior Member
 
Fishin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfsteve View Post
As far as I know it is but here's an article asking if it is about to be banned.

http://mistralhowto.blogspot.com/201...ned-in-uk.html

Sounds like it's legal there


The beginning of the article it says they fed rats 5.5% borax and it messed with their reproductive functions and that, that's why they want to ban it. Sheesh that's retarded! "Would you like a side of 5.5% borax with them fries?" What part of "trace" mineral do they not understand?
LOL

They don't understand the word "trace"!
__________________
"The USA became like Mordor in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: An empire of pure, unadulterated evil."
~ Dr. Kevin Barrett
Fishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2013, 02:37 PM   #20
very_452001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 344
Default

ok so far borax sounds a bit risky so is there a alternative to borax for arthritis?
very_452001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:58 AM.