Respirators

[smashearth]

Hey everyone, just wondering if any of you have looked into respirators and what will work on heavy spraying days?

Right now I'm looking at the 2000 series particulate filters from 3M. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm aware that it's unknown what exactly is being released, but I'd assume that aluminum is a good start. I'm at the point where I don't care if the neighbors think I'm a nutbar. Much more concerned about health.

My area has always been sprayed, but recently it's been extremely heavy. Normally I'm a pretty upbeat and happy person. Why wouldn't I be, I live in paradise! Clean running water, abundance of food, opportunity etc etc. Yesterday, the sky was covered in a THICK cover of trail. The sun still shone through, but it looked as if there was a forest fire in the area. Mountains in the distance appeared hazy, which never happens. By the middle of the day, I was feeling quite...off...by dinner time I was irritable, lethargic, and lost reverence for life...I was aware of this, but trying to think of the amazing qualities of life couldn't bring me out of the slump. I've heard about orgonite and cloudbusters, but want to start with the air I breathe first. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

[soylentgreen]

smashearth, check out my picture of captain kirk (original tv star trek) I like to pretend the three filters are for aluminum, barium, strontium. I'm also interested in filter mask (and also don't care if people think I'm a nutcase) Haven't looked much for specific models (thanks for reminding me) but I do know it has to filter to less than 1 micron because particles are so small. Good luck on your search... I will do the same.

[smashearth]

Originally Posted by soylentgreen

smashearth, check out my picture of captain kirk (original tv star trek) I like to pretend the three filters are for aluminum, barium, strontium. I'm also interested in filter mask (and also don't care if people think I'm a nutcase) Haven't looked much for specific models (thanks for reminding me) but I do know it has to filter to less than 1 micron because particles are so small. Good luck on your search... I will do the same.

Haha, space trails?

That's a great point. I know that the 2071 filter is good for fumes- Welding, metal cutting, metal pouring welding, soldering, brazing. I wonder if that would work? At least very least, wearing a respirator is great form of visual protest.

[sucahyo]

http://globalskywatch.com/stories/my...purifiers.html

I have worked hard and spent a lot of money trying to find an air purifier that removes chemtrail particulates from the air. Unfortunately, I haven't found one.

I had been using peanut oil in my wet mask for some time now when these difficult oil-based chemtrails were sprayed, and it really helped. Based on the decreased intensity of the odor, taste, and related symptoms that occurred when I wore the mask, I believe at least 50% of the chemtrail contaminant was removed from the air. I used a peanut-oil wet mask for many months, but the peanut oil began ruining many washcloths and was difficult to work with. Plus, during heavy spraying, the washcloths would become saturated in about 15 minutes requiring me to prepare another set. I tried using a regular water-wetted washcloth against my face while using a peanut oil -wetted cloth on the outside against the painter's mask's inner surface, but preparation and cleanup was still difficult and messy.

[smashearth]

Hmm, that's unfortunate...good information though, thanks for the link. If he finds anything I'll post an update in this thread.

[tzlr_17]

The 3M P3 disposable masks are cheap and tiny compared to half-mask or self-contained respirators, and offer a good level of protection. I wouldn't recommend wearing a half-mask for extended periods of time, it would drive you nuts.

[sucahyo]

If your problem is hard to breath, headache and ringing ears, I believe that cemenite can help you better.

[stupid]

If a filter or respirator is filtering OUT particles, then those particles are being caught IN the face filter.
Perhaps take those "used" respirators and filters, and have them analyzed. Report back here with scientific documentation as to what is "in" those filters.

I would like to know.

[soylentgreen]

http://www.esafetysupplies.com/3M-82...rticulate.html

http://www.esafetysupplies.com/3M-Ha...ator-6191.html

http://www.esafetysupplies.com/Cartr...and-Retainers/

Hope this helps

[sucahyo]

Originally Posted by stupid

If a filter or respirator is filtering OUT particles, then those particles are being caught IN the face filter.
Perhaps take those "used" respirators and filters, and have them analyzed. Report back here with scientific documentation as to what is "in" those filters.

I would like to know.

It is interesting that the one who want sample testing is mostly trails lover.

It is obvious that even scientist agree that trails is an environmental problem.

Sample testing is useless is many kind of way.

[apollo_gnomon]

Of course it is. Why would you want facts getting in the way of preconceived notions?

[sucahyo]

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

Of course it is. Why would you want facts getting in the way of preconceived notions?

Do you mean sample?

If you just want to sue government, you can do that today by quoting the scientist opinion for contrails. They consider contrails as a problem. When you can make government admit that contrails is environmental problem, then all trails will be automatically reduced by regulation.

If you can make jet engine manufacturer to review the scientist finding of fact of trails produce more warming than CO2, then jet engine manufacturer will create engine that produce less trails.

Then if you still see trails, you can report it the same way you report someone who drive car with a lot of smoke.


Taking sample take time and money. And you may not know how to do it right or forget to document the trails occurence with sampling time. Too many can jeopardize sampling results.

[stupid]

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Do you mean sample?
If you just want to sue government, you can do that today by quoting the scientist opinion for contrails. They consider contrails as a problem.

No, most scientists consider it a mild issue. You can't "sue" the govt for car emissions either... because they have already set emission standards.
Unless anyone has exceeded emission standards....there is no case.

Originally Posted by sucahyo

If you can make jet engine manufacturer to review the scientist finding of fact of trails produce more warming than CO2, then jet engine manufacturer will create engine that produce less trails.

I'm all for that.

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Taking sample take time and money. And you may not know how to do it right or forget to document the trails occurence with sampling time. Too many can jeopardize sampling results.

So learn how to properly take samples.
If time and money are preventing you from saving the planet, maybe you could do more toward that goal, than just posting in forums.
Maybe you have....I don't know.
All I see is excuses.....and little action.

[sucahyo]

Originally Posted by stupid

No, most scientists consider it a mild issue.

Give me explicit quote on that because my reference mention:

In a Special Report of the IPCC (1999), climatic impact was investigated and compared for three periods of observation (1992, 2015 and 2050). In the case of CO2, not only were aviation emissions at these points in time considered, but also the emissions that have accumulated since 1950. With contrails, on the other hand, only emissions from 1992, 2015 and 2050 were considered on account of their short retention time. It turned out that, for all periods of observation, the radiative forcing of contrails is greater that that of CO2. This can be attributed to the fact that the sensitivity effect of contrails is more intense than the accumulation and growth effects of CO2.

They consider trails to be more serious pollutant than CO2. I guess you consider CO2 as mild pollutant then. Don't talk carbon reduction bullshit then.

Originally Posted by stupid

You can't "sue" the govt for car emissions either... because they have already set emission standards.
Unless anyone has exceeded emission standards....there is no case.

Yes, you can sue someone exceed emission standard, that is what I mean. Thanks for clarification that we can sue the government if they don't have emission standard. Because that is what happen precisely with US government, they do not have emission standard for contrails, even after scientist consider it serious pollution.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/nonroad/.../contrails.pdf

Currently, there are no regulations addressing contrails and their atmospheric effects.

Originally Posted by stupid

So learn how to properly take samples.
If time and money are preventing you from saving the planet, maybe you could do more toward that goal, than just posting in forums.
Maybe you have....I don't know.
All I see is excuses.....and little action.

In my opinion that is useless, Let see if anyone have time and money to prove that doing sample will change anything at all.

[stupid]

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Give me explicit quote on that because my reference mention:


They consider trails to be more serious pollutant than CO2. I guess you consider CO2 as mild pollutant then. Don't talk carbon reduction bullshit then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_d...robable_causes

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Yes, you can sue someone exceed emission standard, that is what I mean. Thanks for clarification that we can sue the government if they don't have emission standard.

You will find it very difficult to sue the US govt, if they (we) have not set a prior standard .

Originally Posted by sucahyo

In my opinion that is useless, Let see if anyone have time and money to prove that doing sample will change anything at all.

So you are giving up, even before you start ?
You may not have the money....but others might.

[sucahyo]

Originally Posted by stupid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_d...robable_causes

Reference for the realtion of contrails with warming, not dimming.

Something like this:

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/...dex.php?idp=40
The magnitude and possibly even the sign of the mean net radiative forcing of contrails depends on the diurnal cycle of contrail cover. For the same contrail cover, the net radiative forcing is larger at night. Satellite data reveal a day/night contrail cover ratio of about 2 to 3 (Bakan et al., 1994; Mannstein, 1997).


http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/201...JD016736.shtml
The warming effect of contrail cirrus is disproportionally large at night, since at daytime the cooling due to the short wave cloud albedo effect acts toward compensating the long wave warming effect. Therefore it has been suggested to restrict air traffic to daytime in order to reduce its climate impact.

http://scitizen.com/climate-change/s..._a-13-135.html
As a consequence flights during nighttime hours have a disproportionate effect on the diurnal mean contrail radiative forcing. They account for 60 to 80% of the mean contrail climate effect, even though only one in four flights occurs at night.

Our results suggest that shifting flights from night-time to daytime could be one measure to minimize the climate effect of contrails.



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...contrails.html
This warming effect is far greater for contrails left by night flights, Stuber added.
"The solar cooling effect [wherein contrails reflect the sun's rays back into space] only happens during the day, when the sun is up," she explained.
"During the night the greenhouse warming is no longer balanced, and that is why the contribution of nighttime flights is so large."
Some contrails can last for a day or longer, though they gradually disperse and begin to resemble natural clouds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail
Therefore, the overall net effect of contrails is positive, i.e. a warming effect.[5]

Originally Posted by stupid

So you are giving up, even before you start ?
You may not have the money....but others might.

Yes, I don't see any benefit for that. No one can prove me wrong anyway.

Finding a lab that is not have influence from big company or big government would be very hard from what I hear. In US that can be impossible because all lab want EPA certification. Having EPA certification means the lab is not independent form the government, they have to comply to any government order.

[soylentgreen]

sucahyo, you are wasting your time arguing with certain people on this forum... and that is exactly what they want you to do. I thought the topic was respirators? The problem is: others that are new around here, and actually interested in real discussions, get lost and lose interest trying to read a thread of endless distractions. Your best defense is to do nothing... ignore them!

[stupid]

Yes, the topic is respirators.
Have them tested when you're done with them.
What's wrong with that ?

Originally Posted by soylentgreen

Yes, I don't see any benefit for that. No one can prove me wrong anyway.

Well there you go.

Originally Posted by soylentgreen

Finding a lab that is not have influence from big company or big government would be very hard from what I hear. In US that can be impossible because all lab want EPA certification. Having EPA certification means the lab is not independent form the government, they have to comply to any government order.

A certified lab is what you want.
NIST and ISO certification.
Because a lab is connected with the govt (NIST) actually means they cannot cheat, or come-up with faulty results......because their test equipment is certified and calibrated to definite standards.
Labs can be "independent", but the purpose of any lab is to produce accurate results.....and here in the US, the accuracy is traced back to NIST standards. This is whats is called "tractability".....so that each separate lab will produce the same results based on ONE set of standards.

They don't have know the reason for your testing...you don't have to tell them "why".....only "what" you want tested.
So, the whole "its connected to big govt" is an unwarranted fear.

Now, obviously a used respirator is not the proper way to test for air particulates, but it's a start, to fulfill your curiosity.
Aren't you curious what you might be breathing ?
Perhaps ask the lab how to produce accurate air tests.
Or....you could just guess what it is, the microscopic stuff that you think you are breathing.....which is where you are now....just guessing.

aluminum testing methods for air (scroll down midway)
....it's a bit technical....but explains the methods a lab would use for testing for Al in air samples.

[sucahyo]

Originally Posted by soylentgreen

sucahyo, you are wasting your time arguing with certain people on this forum... and that is exactly what they want you to do. I thought the topic was respirators? The problem is: others that are new around here, and actually interested in real discussions, get lost and lose interest trying to read a thread of endless distractions. Your best defense is to do nothing... ignore them!

Ok, thanks for the reminder.

Respirator is pretty useless to prevent any suffering because of chemtrails. Same as trying to sample them.

Thanks for the link stupid.

[rbl_4nik8r]

Originally Posted by sucahyo

Ok, thanks for the reminder.

Respirator is pretty useless to prevent any suffering because of chemtrails. Same as trying to sample them.

Thanks for the link stupid.

How can they be useless, please explain that one.

They worked for me for close to 20 years while working in a Lead Smelter, and it kept my blood lead down, as well as Arsenic and a few other metal they were not good for you. Now I know when I had a went a few days with out shaving or left it off more then I should my blood lead level went up, and by keeping it on more it went down.

Now you can doubt the tests that I got each month but only I knew when I was testing the system not them and I tested it thru out the time I worked there. Also they have Respirator that can let you breathe in ammonia so they can help you with anything you may fear.

I would look at ones with Charcoal Filters on them they were by far the best from when I needed to wear them.