I believe NASA DID go to the moon!

[hokuspokus]

Originally Posted by truegroup

It's atmosphere Jim, but not as we know it



Teehee.

What is the relevance of v.a . belts etc if the photos are fake?. Tee hee hee

[apollo_gnomon]

Maybe you could tell US what the relevance of the Van Allen Radiation Belts were in terms of mission planning. Don't be afraid to post links to your references, or long calculations of exposure times/amounts.

Until then, I'm thinking you don't really know what the VAB is and how it was dealt with by the Apollo hardware design and mission planning.

[hokuspokus]

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

You appear be incapable of comprehending metaphorical comparisons. I'll keep your apparent educational deficits in mind for the future.

Let me try it again.

What was the LM designed for? Landing on the moon, providing heat and air for a couple of days, then taking off from the moon. The LM was built extremely light, with absolute minimum comfort and convenience.

The shiny gold crap all over the LM is just aluminized mylar (Kapton, actually) plastic film, for reflecting infrared (IR) light. IR, when absorbed, creates heat. The Kapton film wrapped around the structures of the legs, feet, and lower (Descent Module) section kept the material from getting hot from exposure to the sun. That's all it is. Underneath that stuff was aluminum struts, pressure tanks, and the milled aluminum pressure container of the Lunar Module.

You know, apparently, very little about the equipment. Perhaps if you read up on the stuff you would have more material to form intelligent arguments than "it looks funny."

There are worse people than intellectual snobs . But i dont know who.

[hokuspokus]

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

Maybe you could tell US what the relevance of the Van Allen Radiation Belts were in terms of mission planning. Don't be afraid to post links to your references, or long calculations of exposure times/amounts.

Until then, I'm thinking you don't really know what the VAB is and how it was dealt with by the Apollo hardware design and mission planning.

or maybe you could tell us the same thing Huh? bearing in mind i think you and other moonies are talking a bunch of old bollocks perhaps you can tell us all without doubt why anyone would question the moon landings? or most likely.....you cant!!!

[truegroup]

Originally Posted by hokuspokus

or maybe you could tell us the same thing Huh?

For the 46th time you mean?

bearing in mind i think you and other moonies are talking a bunch of old bollocks

I bore it in mind for a few seconds, then felt compelled to dismiss it for the reverse reason.

perhaps you can tell us all without doubt why anyone would question the moon landings?

I'm sure you meant to write seomething else there didn't you? I can think of no reason why anyone should doubt the Moon landings.

or most likely.....you cant!!!

Nope, I cannot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now these pesky Van Allen Belts. Lots of nasty stuff in the stronger central areas, less of it on the edges.

I know, why not go around the outer edges

Yes, yes. Take a 30 degree elliptical orbit and that should take them through in about an hour and pass through the much weaker areas....




Moon intercept trajectory looks like this....




In video format, the TLI and start of the coast looks like this...

TLI Orbit Slice View - YouTube

TLI Orbit Slice View - YouTube

[apollo_gnomon]

Originally Posted by hokuspokus

There are worse people than intellectual snobs . But i dont know who.

I do. Worse than people who are annoyingly proud of what they know are people who are arrogantly proud of what they DON'T know and belligerently defend their lack of knowledge.

[ranb]

Originally Posted by stelios

President Nixon and Vice President Spiro Agnew were both crooks.
Do you deny that fact?

No. There are lots of crooks, this does not mean Apollo was faked.

Originally Posted by stelios

The Apollo programme was founded and run by Nazis.
Do you deny that fact?

Yes. Name the Apollo program founders and runners.

Originally Posted by stelios

It is no coincidence that all the faked Moon landings took place during the regime of Nixon and Agnew.

Apollo was mostly paid for before Nixon became president. What does Nixon in office after it was paid for and during the landings mean? You think Apollo was paid for then Nixon told them to fake it after all that money was spent and the missions flown in preparation for it?

Originally Posted by stelios

You mention the money having been paid for Apollo, well again do you deny that that money was paid to the exact same military suppliers who provided the weapons for the Vietnam invasion and occupation?

So who were all the military and military contractors then? You only mention one below.

Originally Posted by stelios

EG: Northrop Grumman who built the Lunar Modules also supplied the A6 Jets.
Is it totally beyond your comprehension to accept that money for Apollo was diverted or syphoned off?

Proof that this means the program was faked?

Originally Posted by stelios

Northrop built a gold foil covered pile of scrap which never left the studio set.

Says you and other idiots.

Ranb

[ranb]

Originally Posted by hokuspokus

This thing either

(A) travelled eleventy thousand miles through space withstanding all sorts of stuff on the way
or
(B) is a model

You decide. I have already made up my mind.

What makes you think it could not travel to the moon? It was protected under a shroud on the way up through Earth's atmosphere. There was nothing to run into on the way to the Moon.

Ranb

[apollo_gnomon]

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

Maybe you could tell US what the relevance of the Van Allen Radiation Belts were in terms of mission planning. Don't be afraid to post links to your references, or long calculations of exposure times/amounts.

Until then, I'm thinking you don't really know what the VAB is and how it was dealt with by the Apollo hardware design and mission planning.

Originally Posted by hokuspokus

or maybe you could tell us the same thing Huh? bearing in mind i think you and other moonies are talking a bunch of old bollocks perhaps you can tell us all without doubt why anyone would question the moon landings? or most likely.....you cant!!!

Or maybe I won't bother, "bearing in mind" you've already used your lack of information to make up your mind, and won't actually understand the answer anyway.

[noobcybot]

Originally Posted by ranb

Yes. Name the Apollo program founders and runners.

Ranb

So what are you trying to say?

Are you saying you think that Arthur Rudolph was not a NAZI or that he was not a founder of the Apollo program?

[stelios]

Originally Posted by ranb

What makes you think it could not travel to the moon? It was protected under a shroud on the way up through Earth's atmosphere. There was nothing to run into on the way to the Moon.

Ranb

Extreme radiation, solar radiation, heat, cosmic dust, micro meteorites, gamma rays, the Van Allen belts, the need to break free of Earth's gravitational pull.
And many other obvious hazards and obstacles.
That pile of gold foil and sticky tape was only a model, never intended to leave the comfort of the studio.



Does anyone honestly believe this pig can fly?

[ranb]

Originally Posted by noobcybot

So what are you trying to say?

Are you saying you think that Arthur Rudolph was not a NAZI or that he was not a founder of the Apollo program?

stelios claimed "The Apollo programme was founded and run by Nazis." He has a habit of making absurd claims that do not stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Just because there were Nazi’s in the Saturn program it does not mean that it was completely run and guided by them. Take a look at the Silverstein committee. While the efforts of the German scientists were invaluable, if we had went with Van Braun's direct ascent approach to landing on the moon, it would have cost much more and been delayed years past 1969.

NASA has been the agency running all manned space travel efforts in the USA since 1958. All of the administrators have been Americans as far as I know.

Ranb

[apollo_gnomon]

Originally Posted by noobcybot

So what are you trying to say?

Are you saying you think that Arthur Rudolph was not a NAZI or that he was not a founder of the Apollo program?

Yes he was a Nazi.

No he was not a founder of Nasa nor a founder of the Apollo program.

He is credited as "He later became the project director of the Saturn V rocket program in August 1963. He developed the requirements for the rocket system and the mission plan for the Apollo program. "
{los wikis}

Vague, but in short he was an engineer/bureaucrat at a lower middle level, leading the people working on specific piece of hardware.

That's it.

If you think he was more highly placed then that, you need to make your claim and show your sources.

[apollo_gnomon]

Originally Posted by stelios

Extreme radiation, solar radiation, heat, cosmic dust, micro meteorites, gamma rays, the Van Allen belts, the need to break free of Earth's gravitational pull.
And many other obvious hazards and obstacles.
That pile of gold foil and sticky tape was only a model, never intended to leave the comfort of the studio.

[IMG]meh. There are better pix.[/IMG]

[SIZE="argument from incredulity fallacy"]Does anyone honestly believe this pig can fly?[/SIZE]

You forgot "Photon Torpedoes."

[stelios]

Originally Posted by ranb

All of the administrators have been Americans as far as I know.

Ranb

That is such a weak argument but i suppose if you find it comforting then you carry on believing it.
NASA was born out of NACA
I am sure you dont deny that fact.
But NASA was also the coming together of ABMA and NACA, and the Army Ballistic Missile Agency was formed by the NAZI scientists who were liberated from the Nuremberg war crimes trials and relocated to the USA.
Look it up for yourself ABMA was run by NAZIS most famous of which was Werhner von Braun and Arthur Rudolph. But there were hundreds of others.

So NASA was the bringing together of ballistic missile technology and the desire to use that for space travel. In reality NASA was a front organisation because weapons development and military satellites were always the priority.

I suggest you look up "Operation Paperclip" to enlighten yourself.

By the way it was interesting that you quoted Abe Silverstein as some kind of figleaf. We can discuss Zionist and NAZI collaboration too if you want to but the topic has been well documented already.

Google the "Haavara Agreement" as a starting point.

[apollo_gnomon]

Those of us who are actually interested in space HAVE looked up "operation paperclip" (including reading actual BOOKS on the subject ) and know for a fact that the US government collectively held their noses and allowed them in, but kept them at arms' length. Not one Paperclipper was put in any position of actual authority over anything administrative. They were technical experts put to work beating the "Reds" to the moon. Then given, variously, shiny things, stupid jobs not related to engineering, or the boot.

Prove me wrong, stelios. Prove me wrong.

{edit to add:}

And any way, what the heck does it matter anyway? They were Nazis. Does that mean the rockets needed to fire continuously to orbit? Does that mean sublimation won't work in vacuum? Does that mean aluminized Kapton won't reflect IR?

You keep flailing on about this, thinking it means something. It doesn't. It's meaningless.

Prove the rockets didn't work.
Prove the spacesuits didn't work
Prove the rocks are fake
prove the pictures are fake
prove the radio interecepts are impossible.

YOU CAN'T!! That's why you keep flailing on about the freaking Nazis. Or Jews, when you feel you haven't insulted a jew for too many pages.

[stelios]

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

the US government collectively held their noses and allowed them in, but kept them at arms' length

Not sure why you believe that.
The US government BEGGED the Nazis to come. The USSR also wanted them and persuaded some to join them. So the USA offered then a lavish life in comfort and plenty of money too. In many ways it became an auction.
Please learn the correct history of WW2 rather than glam it up to suit you.

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

the US government collectively held their noses and allowed them in, but kept them at arms' length

Correct the Nazis were kept at arms length.

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

That's why you keep flailing on about the freaking Nazis. Or Jews, when you feel you haven't insulted a jew for too many pages.

I replied to RanB.
If you are ashamed of NASA's Nazi connections then tell your boy not to bring up the subject.
It is a loser for you so as Basil Fawlty would say "dont mention the war"

Can you quote me anywhere where I insulted a jew.
This is yet another disgraceful lie and i suggest you withdraw it.
Talk about trying to poison the well.

[apollo_gnomon]

So prove the Nazi connection somehow invalidates the science and engineering.

[noobcybot]

Originally Posted by ranb

stelios claimed "The Apollo programme was founded and run by Nazis." He has a habit of making absurd claims that do not stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

Well they were clearly a big part of it. So the claim he made is hardly absurd.

Originally Posted by ranb

Just because there were Nazi’s in the Saturn program it does not mean that it was completely run and guided by them. Take a look at the Silverstein committee. While the efforts of the German scientists were invaluable, if we had went with Van Braun's direct ascent approach to landing on the moon, it would have cost much more and been delayed years past 1969.

I happen to doubt that the German Nazi Officers brought over were anything less than the saviour of the American space program. I doubt that the US would have bothered going through the trouble of pardoning war criminals if they were not integral to their progress.

Originally Posted by ranb

NASA has been the agency running all manned space travel efforts in the USA since 1958. All of the administrators have been Americans as far as I know.

Ranb

Yep that appears to be true.

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

Yes he was a Nazi.

No he was not a founder of Nasa nor a founder of the Apollo program.

He is credited as "He later became the project director of the Saturn V rocket program in August 1963. He developed the requirements for the rocket system and the mission plan for the Apollo program. "
{los wikis}

Vague, but in short he was an engineer/bureaucrat at a lower middle level, leading the people working on specific piece of hardware.

That bit highlighted there. It hardly looks like "vague" bureaucratic role to me.

You guys are arguing that what Stelios said about the NAZI'S forming and running the Apollo program is absurd. When you have just shown that it was a somewhat realistic and true statement.

Originally Posted by apollo_gnomon

That's it.

If you think he was more highly placed then that, you need to make your claim and show your sources.

No, that's no it at all. Clearly it has been shown that the NAZI'S played a big role in NASA's Apollo program not least because by your own admission one " developed the requirements for the rocket system and the mission plan for the Apollo program.".

So just how many NAZIS do you guys need before you take affront to the inclusion of SS Officers and slavers in the holier than thou and exalted NASA?

Ten, twenty? A hundred? A hundred NAZIs, will that do you?

[abaddon_ire]

Originally Posted by stelios

Not sure why you believe that.
The US government BEGGED the Nazis to come. The USSR also wanted them and persuaded some to join them. So the USA offered then a lavish life in comfort and plenty of money too. In many ways it became an auction.
Please learn the correct history of WW2 rather than glam it up to suit you.

Correct the Nazis were kept at arms length.

Wait, what? The US gov begged to get them in, then refused to use that expertise?

Originally Posted by stelios

I replied to RanB.
If you are ashamed of NASA's Nazi connections then tell your boy not to bring up the subject.
It is a loser for you so as Basil Fawlty would say "dont mention the war"

Can you quote me anywhere where I insulted a jew.
This is yet another disgraceful lie and i suggest you withdraw it.
Talk about trying to poison the well.

Yup, German rocketry was used to achieve the Apollo landings. Rocket science is rocket science. It does not have a national flag, nor does rocket science vary between nations.