Why are Swiss Freemasons trying to legalise incest

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by eastbeast

Well if 'Freemasons' are running the World for self gain, or if anyone is for that matter, then it is wrong. The World should benefit every one, but will that ever happen?
Probably not.

I doubt that 'we' are running the World anyway. Most of 'us' are so decrepit we couldn't run a bath......

Whats this Scotch Mist...

East Beast...

As for providing nothing about rituals, if anyone wants a copy of a ritual book for any of the orders in Freemasonry they can be bought easily from ebay.
If nobody believes that they should try it and see.

Originally Posted by 655321

Taken by 3rd Degree Freemasons – (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1964 A.D.)

The blindfolded candidate kneels at the altar, places both hands on the volume of sacred law, the square and compass, and repeats after the worshipful master:

I, ________, of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God, and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him and dedicated to the holy St. John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, that I will hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the secrets, arts, parts, point or points, of the Master Mason's Degree, to any person or persons whomsoever, except that it be a true and lawful brother of this Degree, or in a regularly constituted Lodge of Master Masons, nor unto him, or them, until by strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall have found him, or them, as lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself. I furthermore promise and swear, that I will stand to and abide by all laws, rules, and regulations of the Master Masons Degree, and of the Lodge of which I may hereafter become a member, as far as the same shall come to my knowledge; and that I will ever maintain and support the Constitution, laws, and edicts of the Grand Lodge under which the same shall be holden. Further, that I will acknowledge and obey all due signs and summons sent to me from a Master Masons' Lodge, or given me by a brother of that Degree, if within the length of my cable tow. Further, that I will always aid and assist all poor, distressed, worthy Master Masons, their widows and orphans, knowing them to be such, as far as their necessities may require, and my ability permit, without material injury to myself and family. Further, that I will keep a worthy brother Master Mason's secrets inviolable, when communicated to and received by me as such, murder and treason excepted. Further, that I will not aid, nor be present at, the initiation, passing, or raising of a woman, an old man in his dotage, a young man in his nonage, an atheist, a madman, or fool, knowing them to be such. Further, that I will not sit in a Lodge of Clandestine-made Masons, nor converse on the subject of Masonry with a clandestine-made Mason, nor one who has been expelled or suspended from a Lodge, while under that sentence, knowing him or them to be such. Further, I will not cheat, wrong, nor defraud a Master Masons' Lodge, nor a brother of this Degree, knowingly, nor supplant him in any of his laudable undertakings, but will give him due and timely notice, that he may ward off all danger. Further, that I will not knowingly strike a brother Master Mason, or otherwise do him personal violence in anger, except in the necessary defense of my family or property. Further, that I will not have illegal carnal intercourse with a Master Mason's wife, his mother, sister, or daughter knowing them to be such, nor suffer the same to be done by others, if in my power to prevent. Further, that I will not give the Grand Masonic word, in any other manner or form than that in which I shall receive it, and then in a low breath. Further, that I will not give the Grand Hailing Sign of distress except in case of the most imminent danger, in a just and lawful Lodge, or for the benefit of instruction; and if ever I should see it given, or hear the words accompanying it, by a worthy brother in distress, I will fly to his relief, if there is a greater probability of saving his life than losing my own. All this I most solemnly, sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steady resolution to perform the same, without any hesitation, myself, under no less penalty than that of having my body severed in two, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven, that no more remembrance might be had of so vile and wicked a wretch as I would be, should I ever, knowingly, violate this my Master Mason's obligation. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.

Originally Posted by eastbeast

I can't recall having abused other posters unless I have been abused first, and even then have not used the disgusting language, lies, or insults that have been directed towards Freemasons and Freemasonry.

The Above and Below Info Proves your Lies...and I have read your insultive remarks on more than one occasion...and Well ings constant sexual overtones...You Masons on here have posted very little info about your craft(only links etc)..thats more than likely due to the fact you are to low down the food chain to be privy to what is really going on above, in the Higher degrees...stick to your supermarket Manager Roles eh etc etc...

Originally Posted by welling

At first glance, I thought the title of this thread said 'The Sad Helmet'

I must get my eyes tested...

Originally Posted by baxterdream

@steviethefox, have healthcare professionals ever suggested that you should seek treatment for mental issues

Bipolar II is similar to bipolar I disorder, with moods cycling between high and low over time...

A bipolar cell is a type of neuron which has two extensions. Bipolar cells are specialized sensory neurons for the transmission of special senses. As such, they are part of the sensory pathways for smell, sight, taste, hearing and vestibular functions.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...27/Gray625.png

A neuron (pronounced /ˈnjʊərɒn/ N(Y)OOR-on, also known as a neurone or nerve cell) is an electrically excitable cell that processes and transmits information by electrical and chemical signaling. Chemical signaling occurs via synapses, specialized connections with other cells. Neurons connect to each other to form networks. Neurons are the core components of the nervous system, which includes the brain, spinal cord, and peripheral ganglia. A number of specialized types of neurons exist: sensory neurons respond to touch, sound, light and numerous other stimuli affecting cells of the sensory organs that then send signals to the spinal cord and brain. Motor neurons receive signals from the brain and spinal cord and cause muscle contractions and affect glands. Interneurons connect neurons to other neurons within the same region of the brain or spinal cord.

Pain in the neurons of brain can be defined as a perceived inability to cope with an unpleasant or painful life situation. It include stress arising from within the neurons of the brain, such as anger, anxiety or grief. . It is in the neurons of brain which decide whether a situation is stressful.. Pain in the neurons of brain is different from pain in the physical body.

Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon - YouTube

Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon - YouTube

"Psyche" is Greek for both soul and butterfly.

They believed that butterfly was a human soul searching for new reincarnation...

Psyche "animating spirit," from L. psyche, from Gk. psykhe "the soul, mind, spirit, breath, life, the invisible animating principle or entity which occupies and directs the physical body" (personified as Psykhe, the lover of Eros)...
http://psyche.nu/psyche/psyche.php

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=29

Bardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bardo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthrea...=37823&page=21

Neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...104781&page=17

[ftil]

Originally posted by lightgiver
Psy•che [sahy-kee]

Classical Mythology . a personification of the soul, which in the form of a beautiful girl was loved by Eros...the human soul, spirit, or mind.

Psychoanalysis . the mental or psychological structure of a person, especially as a motive force.

I wanted to know from where you got the idea that psyche means both soul and butterfly.
In Greek mythology Psyche was a personification of the soul and she was depicted with butterfly wings but it doesn’t mean that Psyche means both soul and butterfly.

Eros...the human soul, spirit, or mind.

There was not one myth of Eros.

EROS (Erôs), in Latin, AMOR or CUPI′DO, the god of love. In the sense in which he is usually conceived, Eros is the creature of the later Greek poets; and in order to understand the ancients properly we must distinguish three Erotes: viz. the Eros of the ancient cosmogonies, the Eros of the philosophers and mysteries, who bears great resemblance to the first, and the Eros whom we meet with in the epigrammatic and erotic poets, whose witty and playful descriptions of the god, however, can scarcely be considered as a part of the ancient religious belief of the Greeks. Homer does not mention Eros, and Hesiod, the earliest author that mentions him, describes him as the cosmogonic Eros. First, says Hesiod (Theog. 120, &c.), there was Chaos, then came Ge, Tartarus, and Eros, the fairest among the gods, who rules over the minds and the council of gods and men. In this account we already perceive a combination of the most ancient with later notions.
http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Eros.html

BTW, you don’t want to mix psychoanalysis with mythology, do you.

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by ftil

I wanted to know from where you got the idea that psyche means both soul and butterfly.
In Greek mythology Psyche was a personification of the soul and she was depicted with butterfly wings but it doesn’t mean that Psyche means both soul and butterfly.

There was not one myth of Eros.

BTW, you don’t want to mix psychoanalysis with mythology, do you.

In psychology the psyche is the totality of the human mind, conscious and unconscious. Psychology is the scientific or objective study of the psyche. The word has a long history of use in psychology and philosophy, dating back to ancient times, and has been one of the fundamental concepts for understanding human nature from a scientific point of view. The English word soul is sometimes used synonymously, especially in older texts...The basic meaning of the Greek word ψυχή (psūchê) was "life". Derived meanings included "spirit", "ghost", and ultimately "self", "conscious personality"

Pride & Prejudice- Shoot that poison arrow - YouTube

Pride & Prejudice- Shoot that poison arrow - YouTube

Sigmund Freud, the father of psychoanalysis, believed that the psyche was composed of three components...

The id, which represents the instinctual drives of an individual and remains largely unconscious.
The super-ego, which represents a person's conscience and their internalization of societal norms and morality.
The ego, which is conscious and serves to integrate the drives of the id with the prohibitions of the super-ego. Freud believed this conflict to be at the heart of neurosis.

Love Is Like a Butterfly: Dolly Parton - YouTube

Love Is Like a Butterfly: Dolly Parton - YouTube

Cupid and Psyche ( also known as The Tale of Amour and Psyche and The Tale of Eros and Psyche), is a myth that first appeared as a digressionary story told by an old woman in Lucius Apuleius' novel, The Golden Ass, written in the 2nd century AD. Apuleius likely used an earlier tale as the basis for his story, modifying it to suit the thematic needs of his novel.

Butterflies are souls of the dead waiting to Pass through Purgatory...

The butterfly symbolizing the occurs in numerous cultures over many centuries. Perhaps the most prominent association of the butterfly with the soul is with Psyche.

The myth of Psyche originated in the Orient. A Myth said the Rhetors (mere talkers) is “an untrue narrative representing truth.” This myth is a good example of approaching “profound realities of Nature by poetic intuition.” “Its secret sense shows through thanks to the symbolism of the butterfly.”

By her beauty, Psyche has aroused the jealousy of Venus. She had seduced Eros himself. Carried away by Zephyre into a flowery valley. She lived there in a dream Palace. Each night she greeted there a lover that she was not supposed to see. On the false-hearted advice of her sisters, giving in to curiosity, she came once with a lamp, to see the one who shared her bed. A drop of oil fell on the god who took flight. Thus began the terrible afflictions from which the unfortunate one could escape only thanks to the complicity of Love. When she had surmounted them her wedding was celebrated in Olympia and she was admired at the banquet of the gods.

Now in Greek, Psyche signifies at the same time soul and butterfly. The myth was interpreted by playing on this double sense. It became the story of the soul touched by divine love, but which, by reason of the mistakes made, must undergo some tribulations before having access to happy immortality. The night butterfly [the moth] attracted by the flame, like the soul attracted by heavenly truths, burns in the flame, reflection of the trials that must be endured to eliminate the fleshy sink-stones before knowing the joys of the beyond.

The work of George Hoefnagel (1542-1601) attempted to illustrate sacred texts using symbols. Many of his works contain caterpillars and butterflies, symbolizing man and his soul.

Getting To Know You (Lyrics) - YouTube

Getting To Know You (Lyrics) - YouTube

Reincarnated Being...In the Solomon Islands, a “dying man has a choice as to what he will become at death and often chooses a butterfly.”

“Among the Nagas of Assam the dead are believed to go through a series of transformations in the underworld and are finally reborn as butterflies. When the butterfly dies, that is the end of the soul forever.” “The Maya looked upon butterflies also as the spirits of dead warriors in disguise descending to earth.”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyche_(psychology)

Cupid and Psyche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cupid and Psyche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cupid and Psyche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.insects.org/ced4/symbol_list3.html
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...123670&page=18

[ftil]

Lightgiver,

I see that you want to mix psychology with mythology........to prove your own theory.
Well, if your aim is to confuse people........confused mind is easy to be controlled and programmed.

BTW, I can’t believe that you quoted Freud. He and his theory was sent to the garbage by many psychologists long time ago. I have noticed that masons love quoting Freud very much.

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by ftil

Lightgiver,

I see that you want to mix psychology with mythology........to prove your own theory.
Well, if your aim is to confuse people........confused mind is easy to be controlled and programmed.

BTW, I can’t believe that you quoted Freud. He and his theory was sent to the garbage by many psychologists long time ago. I have noticed that masons love quoting Freud very much.

You carry on with your Bilder Berg...I am sure people can make up their own minds...


Voila...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...202748&page=62>>>Darling.

[ftil]

Originally posted by lightgiver
You carry on with your Bilder Berg...I am sure people can make up their own minds...


Voila...http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...202748&page=62>>>Darling.

Yes, people can make up their mind but do they need to be showered with theories that are based on lies. I can’t agree more what Peter Lavenda said, “it is time to take control over our mind”

BTW, it is your idea about Bilder Berg. I enjoy looking at mason's life, art, and artifacts........... no place to sell lies.

[lightgiver]

Originally Posted by ftil

Yes, people can make up their mind but do they need to be showered with theories that are based on lies. I can’t agree more what Peter Lavenda said, “it is time to take control over our mind”

Like I say People can make up their own minds and do their own Research.

Originally Posted by ftil

BTW, it is your idea about Bilder Berg. I enjoy looking at mason's life, art, and artifacts...........

Sow it seams...

[ftil]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

Sow it seams...

Lives of “blue blood” masons and scandals are quite revealing.


BTW, you may enjoy reading about sex scandals of The Royal Order of Jesters in Canada. You have probably missed my post about sex scandals of Jesters in Texas. Enjoy reading.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...202748&page=63

[psquared]

Originally Posted by psquared

Still waiting...........

AND...............................still waiting.

[psquared]

Originally Posted by psquared

AND...............................still waiting.

And still waiting.................I love it when someone can't back up their claim.

[eastbeast]

Originally Posted by lightgiver

You Masons on here have posted very little info about your craft(only links etc)..thats more than likely due to the fact you are to low down the food chain to be privy to what is really going on above, in the Higher degrees...stick to your supermarket Manager Roles eh etc etc...

We keep telling you all that the ritual is available freely, Lodges have open days etc.etc.

As we are often told 'all you do is spread lies and disinformation'.

I would love to know what information it is you seek, when and if you got the answer would you believe it?

Lower down the food chain, that's a laugh..........And Supermarket Manager roles??????????

So Freemasons can have 'normal' jobs then?

I had got the impression we were all Police, Judges, Politicians, or suchlike.

[lightgiver]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=26

[exaviuz]

They're not legalizing pedophelia... They're decriminalizing incest.
Wich means, you can still not have sex with your underaged daughter etc, and expect to walk free. However, a brother and sister of proper age can have sex if they want to... But why would they?

I hope it's clear that a law against incest is not nescesary.

[welling]

Originally Posted by lightgiver
You Masons on here have posted very little info about your craft(only links etc)..thats more than likely due to the fact you are to low down the food chain to be privy to what is really going on above, in the Higher degrees...stick ..to your supermarket Manager Roles eh etc etc.

Lightgiver, you spend you're entire life posting links on your posts, most of which are irrelevant or just youtube videos

What do you actually believe in and why are you so obsessed with Freemasonry?

If you asked some sensible, grown up questions, you might get some sensible answers.

At the moment though, nobody really takes anything you post seriously, because your ridiculous amount of posts just contain link after link and are rather tedious and annoying.

[psquared]

And I still wait to hear the answer to the question I asked the Original Poster of this topic. And they call us spammers. He comes in posts up, provides no source, and refuses to answer any question when challenged. I think the point is porven that this accusation is false then....not credible or supported by fact from the OP.

On top of that the artice is several years old. Anyone know if the law passed?

[timelights]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-827106.html

04/12/2012

Human Rights Ruling German Incest Ban Upheld by European Court

The German ban on incest is consistent with European human rights laws, the European Court of Human Rights decided on Thursday. The case involved a German man who had been convicted several times for having intimate relations with his sister, with whom he has four children.
Info

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) on Thursday upheld a German high court ruling that banning incest between siblings does not violate the fundamental right to "respect for private and family life," as guaranteed in the European Convention on Human Rights. The verdict strikes down a claim to the contrary by Patrick S., from Leipzig, who had been convicted of incest by German courts for having sexual relations with his biological sister.

The seven justices ruled unanimously. The court found that, while Patrick S.'s family life was indeed violated by his conviction in Germany of incest, the German ruling was "aimed at the protection of morals and the rights of others" and was thus permissible. The ruling may still be appealed in hopes of a Grand Chamber hearing at the ECHR, the decision of which would then be final.

Patrick S.'s case has been winding its way through German courts for several years and the 35-year-old has spent more than three years behind bars. Most recently, Germany's highest court upheld his conviction in 2008.

The details of his case are unusual. As a three-year-old, Patrick S. was removed from his family and sent to a children's home after having been sexually assaulted by his father. He was adopted by a foster family at the age of seven. He only re-established contact with his biological family at the age of 24 -- and met his sister Susan K., eight years his junior, for the first time. Until that point, he was unaware that he had a sibling.

as far as I know there is no decision in Switzerland about that issue... might come soon. but i think since the ban of the European Court they will think twice...
the hearing procedure ended in Dec. 2011 in Switzerland. Til now no decision on the law reform...

greetings


-------- I think this is a really difficult topic. Beside that i dont think this has anything to do with masonry. Although lawyers/politicians might be masons.. However... they want to do a reform because they have 3 -4 incest cases p.a. thats why they wanted to legalize it, because that law has no matter. However it doesnt allow pedophilia or abuse. thats right. Other laws will cover that.

The ethical part on this is what's with the babies who might be born in such a relationship? 2 of the children from the European Court case are disabled. Its kinda eugenic question. If 2 people who are 70 years old and want to have babies, do they have the same risc to get disabled children? How many old parents exist with children. How many incest children exist? Is there any statistics on this?