Fmotl win

[king anthony]

Originally Posted by aulus agerius

...Instead you attempt to separate things about society which you like (such as the NHS) from the system of government which spawned them...

The current human collective/population/society did not create/spawn governing bodies (government). It was a "few" within that made these things and convinced the remainder it was needed. In (ancient) history, there were successful civilizations that did not have such structures (example, government or currency) as in this current civilization; and they are no longer not because it ever failed.

Originally Posted by jon galt

and in a direct democracy the majority opinion will still be backed by force... also majority opinion can be misleading ie say 99% of the country voted for a...

Communism = the government controls corporations. Democracy = corporations control the government, 51% can take away the rights of 49%. Republic = 99% of the population cannot take away the rights of 1%... and so on - all of this is moot to discuss, as the solution to "everything having the right to life" is simple. Using the example of a nuclear power plant as stated in the complete quote above - the solution would be to make free energy, such as what Nikola Tesla had given the world, available; thus no need to worry about a nuclear power plant.

Originally Posted by undeadcreature

...to live completely and utterly alone, literally no human contact whatsoever...

The above said would imply isolation, which would also imply geography as in order for one to "live alone" would mean they would need to remove themselves physically from the collective.

It is untrue that if one wishes to live free from the currently imposed system(s), that they must removed themselves from the human collective, also known as the population; it is also untrue that those who wish to live free cannot reap the benefits of the human collective while contributing to it.

One needs to keep in mind that a "few" have the monopoly of the lifeline in this current civilization (example, currency) and unless and alternative is available tolerance by "the few" must be given.

Originally Posted by jon galt

...as long as no one was aware of your existence no laws would apply for all intents and purpose, up until the point that you brought attention to your self there by interfering with society...

At the risk of sounding "woo woo", there is an inherent law which governs all life. As for bringing attention to one's self and interfering with society - society (being the social structure and establishments created and imposed by "the few" in this civilization) has imposed/interfered so much on/with individuals and the human collective (as well as nature overall) - and this is the point of topic here, becoming free from the (corrupt) systems imposed.

[@ ALL]

Of what value is it to discuss fictions endlessly, as facts can only be stated - would there not be more value to simply in something of value?

[king anthony]

Originally Posted by firstworldproblems

You were upfront with your hypocrisy; if it's bad, it's the government, but if it's good, then no, it's "humanity", or whatever. I guess that's commendable. Bravo.

How have I been a hypocrite in my words?

[wake_up_bomb]

Originally Posted by jon galt

Switzerland has a population of about 7 mill, also like i pointed out majority support in a direct democracy can be misleading and more unfair than the present system, ie regions with greater population concentration would have greater say than smaller ones where as in our system an mps voice in parliament is as valid regardless of the number of constituents that he has.

These are possibly valid points. I could respond to them in more depth. However in the existing system you get no say in anything, I assure you.

Originally Posted by penfold9

Really?
After all you have said about Britain and its corruption and acts overseas you still choose to live here?
You wrote a book and got it published, and its for sale so you are paying taxes to fund the terrorist regime that is the UK government?
You benefit from the legislation that allows you to copyright and protect your work and then spit in the face of the very government that gives you that protection.
Why don't you live in Switzerland?

This seems a bit personal, my friend! I would rather not discuss my tax affairs in public fora!

So because there is copyright protection in the UK, does that mean that no-one is permitted to be critical of the government whatsoever? What is the point in having copyright protection and free speech then?!

I would love to live in Switzerland, however, I don't speak German, French or Italian. I don't like living in Britain whatsoever. I will leave one day.

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by king anthony

Communism = the government controls corporations. Democracy = corporations control the government, 51% can take away the rights of 49%. Republic = 99% of the population cannot take away the rights of 1%... and so on - all of this is moot to discuss, as the solution to "everything having the right to life" is simple. Using the example of a nuclear power plant as stated in the complete quote above - the solution would be to make free energy, such as what Nikola Tesla had given the world, available; thus no need to worry about a nuclear power plant.

oh dear you do realize that this was an example of how majority support under a direct democratic system can be more unfair than it is in representative democracy, the same could be said of a motorway, rail road or anything else, the point being that committees under representative democracy have as much a voice in parliament regardless of their size. beside the fact that as of yet free energy does not exist. but yeah with it the world would be a great place.

At the risk of sounding "woo woo", there is an inherent law which governs all life. As for bringing attention to one's self and interfering with society - society (being the social structure and establishments created and imposed by "the few" in this civilization) has imposed/interfered so much on/with individuals and the human collective (as well as nature overall) - and this is the point of topic here, becoming free from the (corrupt) systems imposed.

you do not seem to be flowing the discussion, what ever laws of nature would still apply, it is that if in isolation from all humans and your actions did not interfere with any humans the legal system would have little effect on you. this is the only way that fmotl ideals could be recognized as any society will have rules and punishments of sort.

[penfold9]

In (ancient) history, there were successful civilizations that did not have such structures (example, government or currency) as in this current civilization; and they are no longer not because it ever failed.

Can you name some of them please?

[king anthony]

Originally Posted by jon galt

oh dear you do realize that this was an example of how majority support under a direct democratic system can be more unfair than it is in representative democracy, the same could be said of a motorway rail road or anything else, the point being that committees under representative democracy have as much a voice in parliament regardless of their size.

I say, you have not understood the words I shared.

[penfold9]

This seems a bit personal, my friend! I would rather not discuss my tax affairs in public fora!

But you pay them and as such fund the government, you also fund the government through consumption taxes.

So because there is copyright protection in the UK, does that mean that no-one is permitted to be critical of the government whatsoever?

Whatsoever??
I think its a little bit more than "whatsoever' with you, you actually seem to have a total hatred of the UK government.

What is the point in having copyright protection and free speech then?!

You tell me, you have used copyright protection on your book, if you want people to have free speech then let people have your book for free.

I would love to live in Switzerland, however, I don't speak German, French or Italian.

You dont need to

English, second language in Switzerland
The English language is very widespread in Switzerland. The largest concentration of anglophones is in the Lake Geneva area, reaching 13 to 15% of the population in some lakeshore communities. After their mother tongue, the Swiss speak English best, and it is being used more and more as the language of communication between the germanophones, francophones and italophones. As a general rule, "Do you speak English?" is greeted with a smile and a well-spoken answer in this multilingual country. Proof of this is the fact that many anglophones who do not speak any of Switzerland's national languages have lived there for years without the slightest communication problems.

The fact you dont know that surprises me.

I don't like living in Britain whatsoever. I will leave one day.

I believe you just think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and are you learning German ,French or Italian at the moment?

[dontpushme]

Originally Posted by firstworldproblems

Geography was never a part of jon's argument. Read it again (or actually read it for the first time).

However it is a fact that to live outside of a society's geographical delimitation is the only practical way of honestly living outside of it. Otherwise you're just being an hypocrite but hey, what else is new.

their are 100s of societys that choose to limit their membership to people within a certain geo-political border - have you paid your member ship dues to them? no i didn't think so

protip: pay your dues?

[king anthony]

I say, am not here to debate nonsense nor am I not here to perpetuate nonsense.

All I have observed here, as well as other forums, is keyboard warriors wanting to be heard and for them to show what intelligence they may have. People reply to another only "hearing" the words within themselves and not the words of another.

Why am I still in this forum - despite my many requests to have my account deleted, this forum has not - so then why not participate.

The OP had made a claim to which I replied - thus I am posting in this thread.

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by king anthony

I say, am not here to debate nonsense nor am I not here to perpetuate nonsense.

All I have observed here, as well as other forums, is keyboard warriors wanting to be heard and for them to show what intelligence they may have. People reply to another only "hearing" the words within themselves and not the words of another.

.

except your self of course.

The OP had made a claim to which I replied - thus I am posting in this thread

you were responding to my claim thus why i responded that said your opinion is as valid as mine.

[wake_up_bomb]

Originally Posted by penfold9

But you pay them and as such fund the government, you also fund the government through consumption taxes.

I'm well aware of that, I wrote about this extensively in my book. Do you think I voluntarily pay VAT?!

Whatsoever??
I think its a little bit more than "whatsoever' with you, you actually seem to have a total hatred of the UK government.

I don't hate anyone or anything, I have contempt for its murderous practices.

You tell me, you have used copyright protection on your book, if you want people to have free speech then let people have your book for free.

This is a rather disingenuous assessment of what free speech entails!

The fact you dont know that surprises me.

I know Swiss people. Virtually everyone in Swizerland speaks English. You could easily get by speaking English, as you could in Holland or Germany. If I were to move to a place, I would only do so if I could speak one of the official languages proficiently.

I believe you just think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, and are you learning German ,French or Italian at the moment?

As I say, speak to an actual Swiss person and ask them. Or go to Switzerland yourself.

I think we ought to end this conversation here, as you are simply attacking me personally, which seems quite uncalled for considering I have been completely courteous. You have long since moved away from discussing the issue in hand.

[firstworldproblems]

Originally Posted by dontpushme

their are 100s of societys that choose to limit their membership to people within a certain geo-political border - have you paid your member ship dues to them? no i didn't think so

protip: pay your dues?

That makes zero sense.

But please- don't explain. I doubt it was as brilliant as you think it is, anyway.

[penfold9]

I don't hate anyone or anything, I have contempt for its murderous practices.

Yet you support its practices by loyally paying your taxes.

I know Swiss people. Virtually everyone in Swizerland speaks English. You could easily get by speaking English, as you could in Holland or Germany. If I were to move to a place, I would only do so if I could speak one of the official languages proficiently.

Goalpost movement noted.
You say its not necessary to learn a language but yet you make it a caveat of your going living there??
I think you're just making excuses.

I think we ought to end this conversation here, as you are simply attacking me personally, which seems quite uncalled for considering I have been completely courteous. You have long since moved away from discussing the issue in hand.

I thought you may want to end it there as you are now revealing your true colours, you just like to sit behind a keyboard moaning about the atrocities the government are committing without having the courage of your convictions to make a personal stand.
If I were as opposed to the UK and as supportive of Switzerland as you obviously are I would be over there.
PS do you know how much money the Swiss banks made out of the Holocaust?

PPS are you planning on learning another language at any point?

[dontpushme]

Originally Posted by penfold9

Yet you support its practices by loyally paying your taxes.


Goalpost movement noted.
You say its not necessary to learn a language but yet you make it a caveat of your going living there??
I think you're just making excuses.

I thought you may want to end it there as you are now revealing your true colours, you just like to sit behind a keyboard moaning about the atrocities the government are committing without having the courage of your convictions to make a personal stand.
If I were as opposed to the UK and as supportive of Switzerland as you obviously are I would be over there.
PS do you know how much money the Swiss banks made out of the Holocaust?

PPS are you planning on learning another language at any point?

i always fancied learning another language, well not always i never saw the point at school /sigh

[king anthony]

Originally Posted by jon galt

except your self of course. you were responding to my claim thus why i responded that said your opinion is as valid as mine.

I say, I do not have the luxury of opinion - your words are a reflection of your limitations - I wish you well.

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by king anthony

I say, I do not have the luxury of opinion - your words are a reflection of your limitations - I wish you well.

claiming that Tesla invented free energy that could replace current energy needs is definitely opinion and speculation. do you know how Tesla free energy is supposed to work? it relies on the aether model of the universe that has been shown to be false. that said suppose that there was truth to it do you not think at least one person would be utilizing it? where as many governments around the world are working on nuclear fusion, hoping for a working prototype by 2030, there has also be recent experiments with cold fusion in the us (California) which would be free energy.

[dontpushme]

Originally Posted by jon galt

claiming that Tesla invented free energy that could replace current energy needs is definitely opinion and speculation. do you know how Tesla free energy is supposed to work? it relies on the aether model of the universe that has been shown to be false. that said suppose that there was truth to it do you not think at least one person would be utilizing it? where as many governments around the world are working on nuclear fusion, hoping for a working prototype by 2030, there has also be recent experiments with cold fusion in the us (California) which would be free energy.

and why would the governments of the world not want everybody to have free energy? control perhaps?

as the anti-fmotl crowd have plainly shown they don't believe in democracy, and assuming that their mindset is a subset of the state then it would be a one more method to control the ill-informed narrow minded masses (and tax the fcuk out of em for daring to contribute the devils gas co2 to the atmosphere)

'tesla was full of shit, but don't worry we've got a nuclear fusion device we are working on! A centralized energy source for everyone (a great way to create and enforce more legislation and keep lawyers in business i might add, but that is a bit ot) '

[jon galt]

Originally Posted by dontpushme

and why would the governments of the world not want everybody to have free energy? control perhaps?

as the anti-fmotl crowd have plainly shown they don't believe in democracy, and assuming that their mindset is a subset of the state then it would be a one more method to control the ill-informed narrow minded masses (and tax the fcuk out of em for daring to contribute the devils gas co2 to the atmosphere)

'tesla was full of shit, but don't worry we've got a nuclear fusion device we are working on! '

Regardless if it is possible or not my original point was it does not exit at present. fusion is possible it is what powers the sun and h bombs. i guessing that you are ignorant of the mechanics of Teslas supposed free energy also. you seem confused your hole argument for fmot land is that democracy and the rules that follow from it are invalid as every one must consent for them to be effective democracy is always going to be the will of majority what ever form it takes. and by the way tesla was a genius who wanted his inventions to benefit all man kind at little cost a true visionary.

[dontpushme]

Originally Posted by jon galt

Regardless if it is possible or not my original point was it does not exit at present. fusion is possible it is what powers the sun and h bombs. i guessing that you are ignorant of the mechanics of Teslas supposed free energy also.

i'm pretty sure tesla did invent free energy devices that have been shown to work (perhaps you might want to consider the universe itself as a giant free energy 'device', may be in your little corner of the universe it doesn't exist but round these yer parts its larger then life)

you seem confused your hole argument for fmot land is that democracy and the rules that follow from it are invalid as every one must consent for them to be effective democracy is always going to be the will of majority what ever form it takes.

i'm not confused, i'm very aware of what a democracy is and what a society is, its you who is confused ;s

and by the way tesla was a genius who wanted his inventions to benefit all man kind at little cost a true visionary.

quite the opposite of lawyers then?

[jon galt]

[quote=dontpushme;1060837452]i'm pretty sure tesla did invent free energy devices that have been shown to work (perhaps you might want to consider the universe itself as a giant free energy 'device', may be in your little corner of the universe it doesn't exist but round these yer parts its larger then life)


what does the universe having giving energy have to do with teslas inventions. please explain.

quite the opposite of lawyers then?

what does this have to do with anything?
i guess you feel that maybe the accused should not have a fair trial or that human rights lawyers (many who do voluntarily and under paid work) are right crooks.