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Old 23-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #281
picha
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Both systems are wrong because they both involve "money". Except capitalism is a bit less wrong because it fits human nature better - even in pre industrial societies they liked to have ways of showing their status off. Now we do that by the kind of cars we drive and things like that.
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:37 PM   #282
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We here were once in the position of those thinking of doing what we have already done, maybe not as another might choose to do things but done nontheless.

We did it because of the family as andy did, listen and remember to question everything before acting, but eventually one must act or someone else will do your deep thinking for you.

So many people, and not pointing the finger in any given direction by the way, worry about the paradigm first and themselves second, the paradigm will perfect itself if the people do things for themselves, Andy has tried to explain this, Gris too, we are no longer within avatar as the majority still are, can't you tell.

Ghandi said be the change you want to see, not anyone or any Ism wants you to think you want to be and in the fullness of time permitted freedom will either come or those not wanting equilibrium with their fellow man will always break it all to pieces and back to the stone age we Will Go once again.

In between minuites I have been tending to my greenhouse and watching nature working tirelessly for me and the missus, because we want to not because we have to, here is the security gauranteed we know our own hands and the mercy of nature will allows us, there really is no other way forwards all other roads lead us to a place amongst the stones we don not really want to be.

We chose to do what we did because of the injustices our actions were creating toward another to exploit in our names and demanding wanted, much of what could be done by ourselves.
The several years foorware project was one of the most important models we needed to prevent the walking upon childerick to cease upon every step we took, each one today is much quieter, the eating is king like and due to become even fresher and more plentiful which we always share the surplusses of without having to be asked.

There is no time like the present nor any action too small to start making a difference to you and yours whole, forget about Marx thinks/thought, become him yourself and master the practice you know is to be true to yourself.

If doing this one realises ones limitations, then you will know how the others feel doing something for nothing and getting nowhere in the process.

The Labour is the key, the knowledge of where to put it is the part of the answer, hone those two to where it is needed and the whole really could be living within a heaven called earth time for everyone garden of eden to flourish, not to be punished because you broke the law of man which is the law of the concrete and the false.

Nature sits close by we could either join with her or die ignoring everything she has also worked for nothing for us with nothing in return.

It is an inbuilt and instinctive paradigm, set in motion from the very first breath of air we take, everything and everyone knows it is present but choses to ignore it at their peril.
You keep on getting it completely wrong...

No one here is discussing Marxism because we think it will be useful to lead our lives... I have my life already solved and it has nothing to do with Marxism; I have my own business (quite a capitalist business, I would say), it just takes about 30 minutes a day of work, it keeps on growing since I've opened, and it pays for all I need. And, as I said, I've also been planning to move to the country side, but again, it has absolutely nothing to do with Marx, communism or capitalism.

You see what I'm saying? Whatever you, Andy or me are doing with their lives has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I'll repeat what I said in the previous post: we are evaluating the ideas of a man who proposed something far bigger than us and our individual lives; not the best options for living in a society.

Why would moving to the country side and be self-sufficient be related to Marxism?... I can't understand why you 3 keep on arguing your personal life choices in this discussion; you could have done it either way, whether you live in China (supposedly communist) or in the United States (supposedly capitalists). Moving to the countryside and be self-sufficient has nothing to do with either system.

Last edited by flyermay; 23-04-2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:46 PM   #283
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You keep on getting it completely wrong...

No one here is discussing Marxism because we think it will be useful to lead our lives... I have my life already solved and it has nothing to do with Marxism; I have my own business (quite a capitalist business, I would say), it just takes about 30 minutes a day of work, it keeps on growing since I've opened, and it pays for all I need. And, as I said, I've also been planning to move to the country side, but again, it has absolutely nothing to do with Marx, communism or capitalism.

You see what I'm saying? Whatever you, Andy or me are doing with their lives has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I'll repeat what I said in the previous post: we are evaluating the ideas of a man who proposed something far bigger than us and our individual lives; not the best options for our personal problems/preferences.

Why would moving to the country side and be self-sufficient be related to Marxism?... I can't understand why you 3 keep on arguing your personal life choices in this discussion; you could have done it either way, whether you live in China (supposedly communist) or in the United States (supposedly capitalists). Moving to the country side has nothing to do with either.
Ok, then lets live and let live and do ones best in what ever paradigm follows thereafter.
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:55 PM   #284
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Ok, then lets live and let live and do ones best in what ever paradigm follows thereafter.
I also don't understand what you mean by following a paradigm... why would I be a follower of anyone or a follower of any paradigm just for thinking Marx has great points?
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Old 23-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #285
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Both systems are wrong because they both involve "money". Except capitalism is a bit less wrong because it fits human nature better - even in pre industrial societies they liked to have ways of showing their status off. Now we do that by the kind of cars we drive and things like that.
Yes, I think you are right about the money (though I'm not sure the last stage of communism would necessarily involve a monetary system).

And I guess you are also right about people liking to show off... the problem is that now people starve and suffer from other lacks so that others can show off; this never happened before civilization, and is also not human nature to allow others to rot.

Last edited by flyermay; 23-04-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 23-04-2012, 07:47 PM   #286
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I also don't understand what you mean by following a paradigm... why would I be a follower of anyone or a follower of any paradigm just for thinking Marx has great points?
I am going to follow my nose from now on that all I can do, whatever happens.
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Old 23-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #287
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Both systems are wrong because they both involve "money". Except capitalism is a bit less wrong because it fits human nature better - even in pre industrial societies they liked to have ways of showing their status off. Now we do that by the kind of cars we drive and things like that.
Bloody hell Picha, what the hell are you doing here?
You're making sense! Please stop it ffs
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Old 23-04-2012, 09:27 PM   #288
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I also don't understand what you mean by following a paradigm... why would I be a follower of anyone or a follower of any paradigm just for thinking Marx has great points?
The paradigm is the monetary system.
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Old 23-04-2012, 10:02 PM   #289
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The paradigm is the monetary system.
So what did he meant by me following this paradigm... that you guys don't use the monetary system?
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Old 23-04-2012, 10:13 PM   #290
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So what did he meant by me following this paradigm... that you guys don't use the monetary system?
Everybody HAS to use it, thats why its a paradigm. Its a 'worldview'.

The best you can hope for is to reduce your participation as much as you can and encourage others. Its far easier to do that if they can see what you have achieved with very little money compared to what they have achieved despite spending loads...
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Old 23-04-2012, 10:44 PM   #291
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Everybody HAS to use it, thats why its a paradigm. Its a 'worldview'.

The best you can hope for is to reduce your participation as much as you can and encourage others. Its far easier to do that if they can see what you have achieved with very little money compared to what they have achieved despite spending loads...
Those who have seen what is possible and has been achieved using little money here and understand the skills model are litterally blown away by the sheer creativity that real life skills actually brings ones whole, this is how we got here in the first place, but will be held in limbo without them, be easily blinded by ideals without them.

Making everything from scratch and recycled materials is how nature does things, so can we and I have already done for most of my worth in hands that know where they are going.

If one has no litterary skills it is still dooable because hand to eye coordination is all one needs, brain to eye without hands achieves absolutely zero.

Go easy on him H, they will get it eventually.
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Old 23-04-2012, 11:36 PM   #292
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Both systems are wrong because they both involve "money". Except capitalism is a bit less wrong because it fits human nature better - even in pre industrial societies they liked to have ways of showing their status off. Now we do that by the kind of cars we drive and things like that.
So you are saying because capitalism is stupid and heartless it is more right

carry on.
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