Abrahamics and "Biblical Religion: The Great Lie"

[bikerdruid]

Originally Posted by logos880

it is not that I deny Yahweh, it is that jews and muslims deny Jesus.

so, you, the jews and the muslims all accept yhwh as the creator/father god/allah.
that is an awful lot in common.

[quietgirl]

I agree that Christianity, Islam and Judaism have a lot in common, but they also have some really major differences that are very difficult to overcome (see the thread "Islam is the only true religion from God" currently running on here - no agreement between the Christian posters and the Muslim OP has yet been reached!). As logos has said, the main difference is that Christians regard Jesus as the Son of God - the other two religions do not. Indeed, very strict Muslims and Jews in particular would probably resent being lumped together, seeing as they aren't even supposed to be friends (I'm not saying that's right, just saying that's how it is).

Mandy

[logos880]

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

so, you, the jews and the muslims all accept yhwh as the creator/father god/allah.
that is an awful lot in common.

the reality is that christianity has a lot in common with a lot of religions but without Jesus it is essentially meaningless.

[bendoon]

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

so, you, the jews and the muslims all accept yhwh as the creator/father god/allah.
that is an awful lot in common.

How can the Jews and Muslims accept yhwh when one of them deny half the Bible and the others deny it all ?

[bikerdruid]

Originally Posted by bendoon

How can the Jews and Muslims accept yhwh when one of them deny half the Bible and the others deny it all ?

the old testament is far more than half of the bible.
it is sacred to all three religions.
never read the koran, eh?

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by bendoon

How can the Jews and Muslims accept yhwh when one of them deny half the Bible and the others deny it all ?

It was their bible in the first place. Why should they accept the writings of heretics?

Muslims accept the books of Moses.

[bendoon]

Originally Posted by saint_frankenstein

It was their bible in the first place. Why should they accept the writings of heretics?

The Talmud, written by heretics trumps the Bible

Muslims accept the books of Moses.

They don't, they say the writings have been corrupted by Jews and Christians.

By adding their own extra writings both groups have abandoned the God of the Bible and set themselves up in opposition to God.

[saint_frankenstein]

Originally Posted by bendoon

The Talmud, written by heretics trumps the Bible

It's their book in the first place, I don't care how they wish to view it.

They don't, they say the writings have been corrupted by Jews and Christians.

By adding their own extra writings both groups have abandoned the God of the Bible and set themselves up in opposition to God.

And Christians added their own books. What exactly is your point?

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

1. wtf is a 'new ager'?

LOL. I can just imagine the look of 'shock/confusion' on your face.

New Ager: of or pertaining to a movement espousing a broad range of philosophies and practices traditionally viewed as occult, metaphysical, or paranormal.

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

do you believe that if you are a good person that you would be sent to hell for not being a christian?
....by a 'loving god'??

'Good person' by 'human understanding and intellect' is generally very 'vague'. So what might be 'wrong' in your eyes, with your understanding, might be 'right' or 'okay' to do, in somebody else's. To answer your question, I don't see how ANY person, can receive a 'favourable judgement', if he/she uses 'abusive language', is 'disrespectful', steals (that includes paperclips at your office that just lies around), lies (calling in 'sick' to work when you are not) and defiles him/herself with promiscuous/lewd behaviour (multiple sexual partners, orgies, watching pornography etc).

The word of God, cuts sharper and finer than any two-edged sword and THAT is what 'keeps me in-line' and 'instructs me in righteousness' these days, as opposed to the way I used be, when I was a worldly, church-going 'psuedo-Christian'.

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" ~ Isaiah 64:6

"Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find" ~ Proverbs 20:6

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ~ Matthew 7:21-23

Inquity: a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.

[zegzy]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

I don't see how ANY person, can receive a 'favourable judgement', if he/she uses 'abusive language', is 'disrespectful', steals (that includes paperclips at your office that just lies around), lies (calling in 'sick' to work when you are not) and defiles him/herself with promiscuous/lewd behaviour (multiple sexual partners, orgies, watching pornography etc).

The word of God, cuts sharper and finer than any two-edged sword and THAT is what 'keeps me in-line' and 'instructs me in righteousness' these days, as opposed to the way I used be, when I was a worldly, church-going 'psuedo-Christian'.

"Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway?"

The Devil's Advocate - Special Scene/God Conversation - YouTube

The Devil's Advocate - Special Scene/God Conversation - YouTube

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by zegzy

"Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway?"

The Devil's Advocate - Special Scene/God Conversation - YouTube

Ironically enough, 'The Devil's Advocate' used to be one of my all-time favourite movies, along with Bad Boys I, Matrix and Lord of the Rings. I even had that info posted on my Facebook wall.

And it's not 'bricks' I'm carrying....

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." ~ Matthew 16:24

It is easy for an atheist/agnostic to be rude towards any person, of any faith or creed. It is also easy for a 'worldly Christian' a.k.a "church member" to ridicule and be nasty to a 'New Ager'.

HOWEVER...

It is not easy NOR is it 'right' for a CHRISTIAN to be rude/insulting towards ANY person, EVER! If somebody 'steps out of line', you don't behave the way they do and then swear at them like you're Chris Rock on Def Jam Comedy. We MUST be more accountable and responsible than everybody else around us...and the only reason why we can even ATTEMPT to do that, is because of Jesus, His life, His example, His death and resurrection

[zegzy]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

It is easy for an atheist/agnostic to be rude towards any person, of any faith or creed. It is also easy for a 'worldly Christian' a.k.a "church member" to ridicule and be nasty to a 'New Ager'.

HOWEVER...

It is not easy NOR is it 'right' for a CHRISTIAN to be rude/insulting towards ANY person, EVER! If somebody 'steps out of line', you don't behave the way they do and then swear at them like you're Chris Rock on Def Jam Comedy. We MUST be more accountable and responsible than everybody else around us...and the only reason why we can even ATTEMPT to do that, is because of Jesus, His life, His example, His death and resurrection

Nice post. Respect for that one. Personally, at least for now, i am an "agnostic theist" bro not athiest/agnostic. And i do try my best not to be rude to people so long as they are not rude to me.

Agnostic theism is defined as believing in the existence of a god but not claiming to know for sure that this god definitely exists. This definition makes it clear that agnosticism is not incompatible with theism. Being an agnostic means not knowing if any gods exist or not, but this does not exclude the possibility of believing in a god anyway. Agnostic theism is thus a sort of faith: believing without the sort of evidence that would entail knowing.

Agnostic theism isn't a term that is frequently used by theists themselves, but the concept is not unheard of — especially among mystics. Gregory of Nyssa, for example, insisted that God was so transcendent that God must necessarily be forever unknown and unknowable.

Agnostic theism can also be defined a bit more narrowly as belief in the existence of a god but not knowing the true nature or essence of this god. This definition of agnostic theism is a bit more common among theologians, some of whom accept it as reasonable and some of whom criticise it as insufficient.

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by zegzy

Nice post. Respect for that one. Personally, at least for now, i am an "agnostic theist" bro not athiest/agnostic. And i do try my best not to be rude to people so long as they are not rude to me.

I can respect you for that

Originally Posted by zegzy

gnostic theism is defined as believing in the existence of a god but not claiming to know for sure that this god definitely exists. This definition makes it clear that agnosticism is not incompatible with theism. Being an agnostic means not knowing if any gods exist or not, but this does not exclude the possibility of believing in a god anyway. Agnostic theism is thus a sort of faith: believing without the sort of evidence that would entail knowing.

A good buddy here @ work, is agnostic. He used to be 'Baptist', till he had a 'falling out' with the church pastor, LOL.

Originally Posted by zegzy

agnostic theism isn't a term that is frequently used by theists themselves, but the concept is not unheard of — especially among mystics. Gregory of Nyssa, for example, insisted that God was so transcendent that God must necessarily be forever unknown and unknowable.

Agnostic theism can also be defined a bit more narrowly as belief in the existence of a god but not knowing the true nature or essence of this god. This definition of agnostic theism is a bit more common among theologians, some of whom accept it as reasonable and some of whom criticise it as insufficient.

This has been very informative. I did not know this before. Thanks...

[bishadi]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." ~ Matthew 16:24

in the same chapter and just a couple lines above that he charged them with another item


20 Then did he charge his disciples that they may say to no one that he is Jesus the Christ

It is easy for an atheist/agnostic to be rude towards any person, of any faith or creed. It is also easy for a 'worldly Christian' a.k.a "church member" to ridicule and be nasty to a 'New Ager'.

HOWEVER...

It is not easy NOR is it 'right' for a CHRISTIAN to be rude/insulting towards ANY person, EVER!

so you aint a christian?

If somebody 'steps out of line', you don't behave the way they do and then swear at them like you're Chris Rock on Def Jam Comedy. We MUST be more accountable and responsible than everybody else around us...and the only reason why we can even ATTEMPT to do that, is because of Jesus, His life, His example, His death and resurrection

why not be good, because you choose too?

because to false witness, them items about jesus makes you a liar

ie... did you see any of them actions? NO you didnt!

But you can say, "i like to be nice, because i can and choose too"

versus, "To be accepted as a christian, it is required to lie about stories i could never have witnessed"


You insult people, just by false witnessing, when you can be 'good' because you choose too.

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by bishadi

in the same chapter and just a couple lines above that he charged them with another item


20 Then did he charge his disciples that they may say to no one that he is Jesus the Christ

That is correct. It was not time for 'all the world' to know, as yet, precisely who He was. This knowledge only came about to the 'common man' after He died.

"Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done , they feared greatly, saying , Truly this was the Son of God." ~ Matthew 27:54

Originally Posted by bishadi

so you aint a christian?

And you aint a 'disinfo specialist'? You wouldn't know what a Christian looked like if they were being tortured and murdered for their belief (like in the good ol' days) in front of your very eyes!!

Originally Posted by bishadi

why not be good, because you choose too?

And when he was gone forth into the way , there came one running , and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. ~ Mark 10:17-18

When I was a 'pseudo-worldly-Christian', my argument was always, 'I'm not a bad person. I don't steal and rape and kill', blah, blah, blah. It is only when you hold up the word of God, as a direct mirror to your own behaviour, that you can TRULY see yourself for the foul-mouthed, lying, 'scripture-twisting' person that you are

Originally Posted by bishadi

because to false witness, them items about jesus makes you a liar.ie... did you see any of them actions? NO you didnt!

What precisely, have I said/quoted about Jesus, that makes me a liar? And if 'not witnessing' His actions, in those days, with my very own eyes makes me a liar, then I guess ANY historical material a lecturer reads today, which he/she himself did not witness, would make them, lemme guess....a FALSE witness??? Your logic is a joke....

Originally Posted by bishadi

"To be accepted as a christian, it is required to lie about stories i could never have witnessed"

And to believe in evolution is to..... Yeah....thought as much. I never saw Jesus walk the earth and perform all those miracles, anymore than you or any evolutionist saw a single-cell amoeba, evolve into a dinosaur.

Originally Posted by bishadi

You insult people, just by false witnessing, when you can be 'good' because you choose too.

I would suggest you drop the whole 'false witnessing' accusations, as you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you're gonna determine what is 'real' and 'true' by what you can only see, test and reproduce, then you're gonna have to pick up a 'new religion'.

Leave Christianity, to those of us who have 'faith'. Leave evolution to those who need an excuse.

[bishadi]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

That is correct. It was not time for 'all the world' to know, as yet, precisely who He was. This knowledge only came about to the 'common man' after He died.

why?

in what prophecy, did it say messiah would wait to die and come back a few thousand years later to finish the job?

In what part of bible, did jesus tell people that HE was christ?

I mean, where did he say it, as directly as he CHARGED them NOT to call him christ?

[bishadi]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

And you aint a 'disinfo specialist'?

nope..... i render what i can see, personally...

for example, you made this claim

You wouldn't know what a Christian looked like if they were being tortured and murdered for their belief (like in the good ol' days) in front of your very eyes!!

i am watching you mislead people, right in front of my eyes, by your 'false witness'.

ie... you are deceiving people, by choice. It is a torture to any life having to make a choice of right and wrong, to have to fight the lies of people like you.

You are torturing ME, just for choosing to mislead, by choice!

And when he was gone forth into the way , there came one running , and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. ~ Mark 10:17-18

and ....19............... renders the 6 commands and one of them is saying in my most eloquent summary 'no fucking lying'


but you have missed the gift of those scriptures of mark 10:17-18..

ie.... "what shall i do (to inherit life)?' and 'i aint good (god)", per the bible, as jesus is telling the man

[bishadi]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

When I was a 'pseudo-worldly-Christian', my argument was always, 'I'm not a bad person. I don't steal and rape and kill', blah, blah, blah. It is only when you hold up the word of God, as a direct mirror to your own behaviour, that you can TRULY see yourself for the foul-mouthed, lying, 'scripture-twisting' person that you are

so you have looked into the mirror!

attaboy!

What precisely, have I said/quoted about Jesus, that makes me a liar?

that he is 'christ'

And if 'not witnessing' His actions, in those days, with my very own eyes makes me a liar, then I guess ANY historical material a lecturer reads today, which he/she himself did not witness, would make them, lemme guess....a FALSE witness??? Your logic is a joke....

witness what any can sustain as true, not what is believed.

For example: are you a conscious life, capable of creating, personally?

yes or no

ARE you as capable to cause about any 'evil' or corrupt act as any devil, any human, any life, that ever lived?

yes or no

Are you as capable of giving of yourself, for other lives to live longer, by choice?

yes or no

Are you capable of being honest beyond any belief?

yes or no

Are you alive and in the flesh today, now and nothing in the whole of existence will save you from being a bad person except yourself and your own actions?

yes or no

[bishadi]

Originally Posted by jesusissalvation

And to believe in evolution is to..... Yeah....thought as much. I never saw Jesus walk the earth and perform all those miracles, anymore than you or any evolutionist saw a single-cell amoeba, evolve into a dinosaur.

but i can witness an embryo (single cell) develop into a human being?

And i have observed the evidence of darwins ideas, within the fossil records. Albeit, there are missing items as rendered by many inquiries, but i know that knowledge evolves and that i can take a yellow crayon and red crayon and make a combination into any shade of orange that i would like, so I do comprehend how an evolution can occur.

kind of like, you can take an assortment of words and create a post as well, enable an evolving dialogue, by choice

I would suggest you drop the whole 'false witnessing' accusations, as you are shooting yourself in the foot. If you're gonna determine what is 'real' and 'true' by what you can only see, test and reproduce, then you're gonna have to pick up a 'new religion'.

i am enabling 'truth' which is the sword to destroy the ignorance sustained by religious wingnuts.

ie.... i do, can and will create and know it!

Leave Christianity, to those of us who have 'faith'. Leave evolution to those who need an excuse.

I will address any in full judgement that mislead 'truth' and i dont need an excuse, because i know i 'can and are able'


You use the excuse of belief while i know the evolving process of life, knowledge and understanding is the best faith to hold for mankind!

you discount mankind and our equal capabilities, and i nurture in love, that each are ONE with 'god' (nature itself) and always have been

[jesusissalvation]

Originally Posted by bishadi

why? in what prophecy, did it say messiah would wait to die and come back a few thousand years later to finish the job?

In what part of bible, did jesus tell people that HE was christ?

I mean, where did he say it, as directly as he CHARGED them NOT to call him christ?

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken : Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. ~ Luke 24:25-27

BAM!!! Right there! Jesus is walking with 2 of the locals, AFTER He had arisen from the dead, on that first day of the week. The 2 men he is speaking to here, were TERRIBLY upset that their Messiah, Jesus, had been killed! If these 2 men, had from the beggining, studied the teachings of the prophets of old, they would have KNOWN that Jesus HAD to die, for the whole of mankind....thus, making him 'The Christ'. Jesus however, was kind and gracious enough to spend a CONSIDERABLE amount of time with them, to teach them the scriptures and prophecies of old, pointing towards His death, for the entire world!

HOWEVER....there was somebody VERY SPECIFIC, that KNEW Jesus was gonna die, as the Messiah and he is HARDLY EVER quoted. Allow me, please ?

"The next day John [the Baptist] seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith , Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." ~ John 1:29

ONCE AGAIN, YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AS PURPOSEFULLY TRYING TO TWIST AND MANIPULATE SCRIPTURE!!! You are a LIAR AND A HYPOCRITE!!! Just like I EXPOSED you when you BLATANTLY LIED about the whole 'circumcision' teaching!!!

AGAIN... "you have been weighed on the balances and have failed the test." ~ Daniel 5:27