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Old 21-09-2010, 04:54 PM   #3001
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Deja vu here, because we've already shown the pics that prove Jackie's hands were both on her husband's arm at the time of the shot, and neither were in a position to fire an upward shot even if she had a gun. I'm not going to trawl back through last week's posts to find them, as I'm sure you've seen them already.

And if you want to talk about physics, please don't claim that streak is the 'bullet path' because that is totally corrupting actual physics, by using it to 'prove' something which has been disproved by photographic evidence.

I think we should make a separate sticky showing all the pics with Jackie's hands visible just before the shot was taken, that way people won't have an excuse to keep coming back to the same argument again and again.
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Old 21-09-2010, 04:56 PM   #3002
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Originally Posted by rodin View Post
Every now and then I have to remind everyone of the physics of the situation



You cannot see either of Jackie's hands. Only Jack's
Great visual evidence again.
Thank you, rodin.

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Old 21-09-2010, 05:37 PM   #3003
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Originally Posted by rodin View Post
Every now and then I have to remind everyone of the physics of the situation



You cannot see either of Jackie's hands. Only Jack's
Only a highly trained assasin would be capable of pulling off an instinctive guided and not aimed shot like that, I very much doub't that this women could have done this, not in a million years.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:04 PM   #3004
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Originally Posted by dreamscope View Post
Deja vu here, because we've already shown the pics that prove Jackie's hands were both on her husband's arm at the time of the shot, and neither were in a position to fire an upward shot even if she had a gun. I'm not going to trawl back through last week's posts to find them, as I'm sure you've seen them already.

And if you want to talk about physics, please don't claim that streak is the 'bullet path' because that is totally corrupting actual physics, by using it to 'prove' something which has been disproved by photographic evidence.

I think we should make a separate sticky showing all the pics with Jackie's hands visible just before the shot was taken, that way people won't have an excuse to keep coming back to the same argument again and again.
No we have not. I showed that her hands are not visible from before frame 291. He was shot frame 313 - and we know not how many frames are missing

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/v...g?t=1285099289

...which is why work is in progress here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...post1059257809
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:07 PM   #3005
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http://assassinationscience.com/john...tro/blood.html
JFK assassination film hoax

The blood mistake

On the previous page we looked at David Lifton’s discovery, back in the 1960s, that the wound to JFK’s head shown on the Zapruder film is a fake.

More recently, scientists have discovered that there is something else about the shot to JFK’s head on the forged film that is fake—and can be proved to be fake: the spray of blood that appears at the moment he is shot.

Film experts had noted that the “blood spray” in Frame 313 looks like it has been “painted on” and then exposed onto a

But what tells us that this “blood” is fake is the fact that it disappears into thin air!


If it was real, the “blood” should spread out in the frames after Frame 313, and then land on people or objects in the car. But within a couple of frames, it disappears altogether:

Scientists were able to test whether the blood really did disappear. They analyzed the film frames around the shot to JFK’s head:

Every color picture can be broken down into red, green, and blue light. (If you look closely at your TV, you can see the little red, green and blue lights!) The total red, green, and blue light in each of the frames was measured by computer, and put onto a graph:

The graphs show that the “spray” disappears within three frames, or one-sixth of a second. This can’t happen! Even if you dropped a lead weight from JFK’s temple, it wouldn’t drop into the car this fast!

The scientists were also able to show that the “spray” could not have been moving so fast that it shot right out of view before Frame 314.

But even if the blood could have, where would it have ended up?

It would have gone all over the Connallys, and the windows and interior of the limousine. But a frame published only weeks after the assassination, in color, showed no blood at all:

If this was not bad enough, when the U.S. Government’s report into the assassination was published in 1964, another frame (323) was published, which again showed no blood, but just a huge bloodless wound in the President’s head:

The problem was that the same magazine also showed another frame (311), where the President had not yet been shot in the head:

When the forgers sped up the action so that it would look like the limousine never stopped, it meant that these two frames were only two-thirds of a second apart. Somehow, in less than a second, the President had to be shot in the head, and any blood and brain matter had to disappear into thin air!

The magazine printing was stopped, the printing plate for this page was broken, and the bloodless Frame 323 was taken out. But in a monumental blunder, it was replaced by Frame 313: the first time the “blood spray” was ever published!

It is ironic that two different versions of the same magazine issue caused the “blood spray” problem: a fake-looking spray of blood appears, and 0.55 seconds later it has completely disappeared.

You can also see that the publication of the two images above locked in the “fast-forward” mistakes: all four people in the front of the limousine have moved a large distance in just two-thirds of a second.

This shows how difficult it was for the forgers to make the fake film. As the web of lies grew, they got so tangled up that they ended up with something that was so bad that it had to be hidden away from the American public for 12 years.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:12 PM   #3006
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What that research completely and likely on purpose, misses is the fake blood spray almost entirely appears in front of Kennedy's face before the shot.

Of course pointing out the fake reflection and blood mist cause the headshot is also ignored since it supports the driver shooting.

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Old 21-09-2010, 09:12 PM   #3007
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Without the egos this thread would have come to an end long ago.
Without all your empty pointless posts this thread would be much shorter.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:15 PM   #3008
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Without all your empty pointless posts this thread would be much shorter.
Same to you, or whatever you say in your language on such an occassion.

I am convinced - as I said before in many comments - that Rodin is right.

Whether you like it or not does not matter to me.


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Old 21-09-2010, 09:22 PM   #3009
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http://educate-yourself.org/cn/drivergreershotjfk.shtml
Witnesses make the case for the Limousine Driver shooting JFK

On 3-12-92 I interviewed one Fred Newcomb, who researched, along with co-author Perry Adams, a book entitled "Murder from Within," © 1975 derived from original research done in Dallas in 1968 when the memories of witnesses were still fresh.

Mr. Newcomb felt his book made the case for the limousine driver shooting JFK so well that he sent copies of the book to the 1975 Congress and Senate because he felt he would be guilty of "obstruction of justtice" if he did not do so. These are the witnesses whose statement to Mr. Newcomb and sometimes the Warren commission included the words "in the car."

1. Mary Moorman - school teacher standing next to Jean Hill. She said she saw Greer shooting back but thought he was shooting back at the assassin. SOURCE: Warren Commission and taped interview by Fred Newcomb.

2. Jean Hill - Jean Hill saw what happened too, but when she tried to bring up the subject of a gun being fired in the car, Senator Arlen Spector (a 33rd degree Mason) would change the subject or say "it's time for a cup of coffee."

3. Austin P. Miller - Texas Louisiana Freight Bureau, who stood on the railway overpass overlooking Elm Street was asked by Arlen Spector where the shots came from: His reply was "from right there in the car." Senator Spector just went on to the next question, never asking Miller any specifics. From: Warren Report, New York Times edition, p. 82.

4. Clinton J. Hill. Jacqueline Kennedy's bodyguard reports in Vol. II, pp 138-139 of the Warren Commission Volumes: "I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, and ran to the presidential limousine. Just as I reached it, there was another sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object...it seemed to have some type of echo."

5. Hugh Betzner - Had picture published in Life magazine and was standing right next to the drivers side of the motorcade: He saw a gun in the hand of one of the secret service agents and heard a sound "like firecrackers going off in the car."Link to Betzner’s official statement: http://www.jfk-online.com/betzner.html Source: taped interview with Fred Newcomb.

6. Senator Ralph Yarborough - 3rd car back "Smelled gunpowder in the car." (statement made to press but not to Warren Commission) He was challenged by Newcomb on the phone and he then said "I must have smelled it coming down from the book depository"

Nose witnesses

It is reasonable to assume that if a gun were fired in the limousine, then there would be the smell of gunsmoke. There was and Mr. Newcomb located 6 "nose witnesses":


1.Senator Ralph Yarborough

2. Patrolman Joe W. Smith

3. Congressman Ray Roberts

4. Thomas C. Clifford

5. Elizabeth Cabell, wife of Dallas Mayor.

6. Robert W. Jackson
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:24 PM   #3010
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No we have not. I showed that her hands are not visible from before frame 291. He was shot frame 313 - and we know not how many frames are missing

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/v...g?t=1285099289

...which is why work is in progress here

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...post1059257809
Yes we have. We have photographs from 2 different angles to Zapruda's film.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:32 PM   #3011
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Default Fake blood spray before headshot

Excellent close-up of fake spray before shot.
The second and third capture are in between 312-313, therefore before the shot. The mist is fake because there's no mist when a headshot happens and certainly not before the shot reaches the head.




This conclusive evidence of alteration was never pursued because it leads right to the driver, something almost no ct'er was willing to do.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:41 PM   #3012
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Our attempts to find the truth should not begin and end with the Zapruder film. Oddly the people who cling to the Zapruder film as their "evidence", appear to think it was fake or doctored. So which is it?

We can learn a lot from the evidence available and a lot of research does base itself on the Zapruder film but we have lots more evidence. Other video angles and photographs, witness testimonies etc.

We need more non Zapruder research I think.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:42 PM   #3013
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Excellent close-up of fake spray before shot.

The second and third capture are in between 312-313, therefore before the shot. The mist is fake because there's no mist when a headshot happens and certainly not before the shot reaches the head.

This conclusive evidence of alteration was never pursued because it leads right to the driver, something almost no ct'er was willing to do.
We know that the red mist was added afterwards. So how does this in any way 'prove' the driver fired the shot? Assuming of course he had a gun in his hand at the time, which cannot be proven.
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:56 PM   #3014
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Default Clint Hill

Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm
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Old 21-09-2010, 09:59 PM   #3015
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Mr. HILL. This is the first sound that I heard; yes, sir. I jumped from the car, realizing that something was wrong, ran to the Presidential limousine. Just about as I reached it, there was another sound, which was different than the first sound. I think I described it in my statement as though someone was shooting a revolver into a hard object--it seemed to have some type of an echo. I put my right foot, I believe it was, on the left rear step of the automobile, and I had a hold of the handgrip with my hand, when the car lurched forward. I lost my footing and I had to run about three or four more steps before I could get back up in the car.
Between the time I originally grabbed the handhold and until I was up on the car, Mrs. Kennedy--the second noise that I heard had removed a portion of the President's head, and he had slumped noticeably to his left. Mrs. Kennedy had jumped up from the seat and was, it appeared to me, reaching for something coming off the right rear bumper of the car, the right rear tail, when she noticed that I was trying to climb on the car. She turned toward me and I grabbed her and put her back in the back seat, crawled up on top of the back seat and lay there.
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hill_c.htm
Okay, we know by now that somebody fired a gun of some sort and that the shot hit Jackie in the head. So where does Clint Hill say that shot came from the driver's seat? He would have been close enough to know, wouldn't he?
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Old 21-09-2010, 10:00 PM   #3016
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Default Bud's shocking suicide proves zfilm was ALTERED

NO BLOOD OR MIST AFTER IMPACT.



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Old 21-09-2010, 10:07 PM   #3017
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Default Entrance over right eye exited out right rear

The killer's testimony confirms proper and logical wound path. Thank Bee Gee.


Mr. Specter.
Did you just mention, Mr. Greer, a hole in the President's head in addition to the large area of the skull which was shot away?
Mr. Greer.
No. I had just seen that, you know, the head was damaged in all this part of it but I believe looking at the X-rays, I looked at the X-rays when they were taken in the autopsy room, and the person who does that type work showed us the trace of it because there would be little specks of lead where the bullet had come from here and it came to the--they showed where it didn't come on through. It came to a sinus cavity or something they said, over the eye.
Mr. Specter.
Indicating the right eye. (GREER POINTED OVER HIS RIGHT EYE)

Mr. Greer.
I may be wrong.
Mr. Specter.
You don't know which eye?
Mr. Greer.
I don't know which eye, I may be wrong. But they showed us the trace of it coming through but there were very little small specks on the X-rays that these professionals knew what course that the bullet had taken, the lead.Mr. Specter.
Would you describe in very general terms what injury you observed as to the President's head during the course of the autopsy?
Mr. Greer.
I would--to the best of my recollection it was in this part of the head right here.
Mr. Specter.
Upper right?
Mr. Greer.
Upper right side.
Mr. Specter.
Upper right side, going toward the rear. And what was the condition of the skull at that point?
Mr. Greer.
The skull was completely--this part was completely gone.


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Old 21-09-2010, 10:10 PM   #3018
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Default The fragment retreived over right eye

INDENTICAL FRAGMENT CIRCLED IN AP AND LATERAL X-RAY. IT'S CIRCLED.


FRONTAL SINUS BEHIND RIGHT EYE

Last edited by 7forever; 21-09-2010 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 21-09-2010, 10:17 PM   #3019
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Default Greer's partner in crime...Roy Kellerman

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warr...ol2/page94.php
Mr. Kellerman.
Actually, from all the X-rays that were taken, and we viewed them all together when I say "we," I am saying the medical people who were in the morgue at the time, the two Bureau agents, myself, and also Mr. Greer, who was in there with me, naturally, they were looking for pieces of fragmentation of this bullet. There was none; only one piece to my knowledge. That was removed inside above the eye, the right eye.

Mr. Kellerman.
OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size.
Mr. Specter.
Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches; would that be approximately correct?
Mr. Kellerman.
Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head.
Mr. Specter.
Indicating the rear portion of the head.

Mr. Kellerman.
Yes.
Mr. Specter.
More to the right side of the head?
Mr. Kellerman.
Right. This was removed.
Mr. Specter.
When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this?
Mr. Kellerman.
The skull part was removed.

Mr. Specter.
All right.
Representative Ford.
Above the ear and back?
Mr. Kellerman.
To the left of the ear, sir, and a little high; yes. About right in here.
Mr. Specter.
When you say "removed," by that do you mean that it was absent when you saw him, or taken off by the doctor?
Mr. Kellerman.
It was absent when I saw him.


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Old 21-09-2010, 10:19 PM   #3020
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That does not look at all like Kennedy

Also please throw away testimony - its worthless here

OK lets see when Jackie let go of Jack's arm based on other evidence - but correctly timed
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