How Islamic inventors changed the world

[logos880]

Originally Posted by scooby85

Its not violence in response to disbelief!! Its violence in retaliation, which you cant say is wrong, as people have to stick up for themselves, so you are wrong.

All wars have at least two sides. Can't have a war without two sides.

Originally Posted by scooby85

Christianity is not a religion of peace, none one of the three abrahamic religions are, there are plenty of verses in the bible that promote violence, here are a few examples:

In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

Exodus takes place under a different covenant with God. Jesus' death created a new covenant. The Old Testament is law...it is harsh; people sacrificed animals. The New Testament is grace.

Originally Posted by scooby85

In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

You have misinterpreted or not read this verse properly. The criticism is actually in regards to keeping old laws. Jesus is speaking out against outward physical ritual and inward corruption.

Originally Posted by scooby85

In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

These verses in Luke are part of a parable that is meant to be allegorical not literal. The "slaying of enemies" is meant to represent judgment before God. This is a spiritual judgment not a physical slaying.

Originally Posted by scooby85

But thats not the issue, when different prophets came down, they came down in different scenarios, like when moses came, the general way the world was at the time was to retaliate as there was a lot of violence (an eye for an eye)

Jesus came down at a more peaceful period in time hence turn the other cheek

Muhammad came down at a time when there was widespread violence therefore 'turn the other cheek' method wouldnt have worked. Even then Islam doesnt want violence, it would rather sort matters out without it, however violence is needed sometimes.

You're kidding right?! A more peaceful time? Jesus was crucified. He died a horribly painful and violent death. On this same note, when one of Jesus' disciples tried to prevent his arrest with violence Jesus stopped his disciple and went with the Roman guards peacefully. More excuses for Muhammad's violent ways.

Originally Posted by scooby85

still my argument is logical, although it cant be proven, it makes more than perfect sense.

But why islamic 'terrorism' we all know that doesnt exist like how the media make it out to exist.. they couldve chosen any religion/sect/cult whatever but they chosen islam, why? Could it be that its the truth and they are trying to weaken it? makes perfect sense

There is a seed of truth to all the media's lies. Are you saying there is no such thing as Islamic terrorism? While I understand the concept of false flags and exaggerated news reports some of what is being reported is true. The fact remains that Islam is a convenient tool for the powers that be because of Islamic terrorism.

Originally Posted by scooby85

Will they not get weakened in a full scale war v muslims? it just doesnt make sense..

No they won't. The Illuminati are strengthened through war. War = profit. They play both sides of the conflict. It is a Military-Industrial complex. Money is the foundation of their means of control.

[scooby85]

All wars have at least two sides. Can't have a war without two sides.

again im not denying that but muslims are not allowed to kill anyone innocent, therefore it must mean that in order for them to fight, they must be provoked.

An example..If there was a war between white and black people.. the white peoples mentality was not to use violence, where as the blacks would.. In that case there white people would lose, that is why in certain scenarios you must fight back.

Exodus takes place under a different covenant with God. Jesus' death created a new covenant. The Old Testament is law...it is harsh; people sacrificed animals. The New Testament is grace.

like i said theres not many violent verses in the N/T as there wasnt a need for violence at that time, it was a relatively peaceful era...

So do you believe in the old testament?

You have misinterpreted or not read this verse properly. The criticism is actually in regards to keeping old laws. Jesus is speaking out against outward physical ritual and inward corruption.

but jesus is still saying they shouldve killed the jews though right?

These verses in Luke are part of a parable that is meant to be allegorical not literal. The "slaying of enemies" is meant to represent judgment before God. This is a spiritual judgment not a physical slaying.

So when the quran mentions similar verses its literal, where as when the bible mentions it, its allegorical? ok

You're kidding right?! A more peaceful time? Jesus was crucified. He died a horribly painful and violent death. On this same note, when one of Jesus' disciples tried to prevent his arrest with violence Jesus stopped his disciple and went with the Roman guards peacefully. More excuses for Muhammad's violent ways.

But jesus wasnt really crucified though was he! yes the sun god, 'dies' on the constellation of the stars called the crux, it didnt really happen!

I said a more peaceful time, not completely peaceful.. you cant deny that moses and muhammads era was less violent than jesuses.

There is a seed of truth to all the media's lies. Are you saying there is no such thing as Islamic terrorism? While I understand the concept of false flags and exaggerated news reports some of what is being reported is true. The fact remains that Islam is a convenient tool for the powers that be because of Islamic terrorism.

yes i am saying that there is no such thing as islamic terrorism but there is islamic freedom fighting, as islam does not allow the killing of innocent civilians nor does it allow any sort of suicide. Therefore I do not class these acts, the acts of a muslim.

No they won't. The Illuminati are strengthened through war. War = profit. They play both sides of the conflict. It is a Military-Industrial complex. Money is the foundation of their means of control.

The illuminati are not all about money, they are also paving the way for the antichrists arrival, when the new world order is complete, it will be the time for him to arrive as everything will be set up for him, the last wars will not be for money but rather for the protection/security of the antichrist who will be based in al quds (jerusalem).

[amaralsright]

Originally Posted by scooby85

again im not denying that but muslims are not allowed to kill anyone innocent, therefore it must mean that in order for them to fight, they must be provoked.

Is someone who calls Muhammed a false prophet innocent?

[logos880]

Originally Posted by scooby85

again im not denying that but muslims are not allowed to kill anyone innocent, therefore it must mean that in order for them to fight, they must be provoked.

An example..If there was a war between white and black people.. the white peoples mentality was not to use violence, where as the blacks would.. In that case there white people would lose, that is why in certain scenarios you must fight back.

No, everyone loses. Look at the people who went to the Vietnam war. Did they come back unchanged? Nope, war warped their sense of reality. Violence only gives birth to more violence. Revenge only gives birth to more revenge.

Originally Posted by scooby85

like i said theres not many violent verses in the N/T as there wasnt a need for violence at that time, it was a relatively peaceful era...

So do you believe in the old testament?

Yes, I do. But, it is a different covenant.

Originally Posted by scooby85

but jesus is still saying they shouldve killed the jews though right?

No, that is not what he is saying. Jesus is talking about religious ritual and how pointless it is if your heart is not in the right place.

Originally Posted by scooby85

So when the quran mentions similar verses its literal, where as when the bible mentions it, its allegorical? ok

I didn't say that. I think we are agreement in regards to the interpretations of the Koran. The Korans condones violence. You agree with the Koran and I disagree.

Originally Posted by scooby85

But jesus wasnt really crucified though was he! yes the sun god, 'dies' on the constellation of the stars called the crux, it didnt really happen!

You've been watching too much Zeitgeist and reading to much Acharya. The Bible speaks out against the sun cult and the worship of the sun. If you do not believe part of the Bible then you must assume that it is all false.

Originally Posted by scooby85

I said a more peaceful time, not completely peaceful.. you cant deny that moses and muhammads era was less violent than jesuses.

Less violent according to who? Was there a pole taken? Crucifixion is about as violent as it gets.

Originally Posted by scooby85

yes i am saying that there is no such thing as islamic terrorism but there is islamic freedom fighting, as islam does not allow the killing of innocent civilians nor does it allow any sort of suicide. Therefore I do not class these acts, the acts of a muslim.

Exactly, its a matter of interpretation again. You are saying that Jihad is justified and I am saying that Jihad is wrong. Call them freedom fighters or terrorists, bottom line is violence will only lead to more violence. War does not, nor has it or will it ever, lead to peace. After thousands of years in recorded history of human wars we are now on the verge of yet another war. War, "holy" or not, does not equal peace.

Originally Posted by scooby85

The illuminati are not all about money, they are also paving the way for the antichrists arrival, when the new world order is complete, it will be the time for him to arrive as everything will be set up for him, the last wars will not be for money but rather for the protection/security of the antichrist who will be based in al quds (jerusalem).

The illuminati are only about money to the extent of what money can do for them. Money is a tool for them. I'm of the opinion that the NWO will be a false peace that is brought about after WWIII (Jews vs Muslims) similar to the peace brought about during the Roman Empire.

[scooby85]

logos880;1058726800]

No, everyone loses. Look at the people who went to the Vietnam war. Did they come back unchanged? Nope, war warped their sense of reality. Violence only gives birth to more violence. Revenge only gives birth to more revenge.

you say violence leads to violence, which is true but sometimes it has to happen right? I mean if the muslims dont retaliate v the illuminati then there wont be any muslims left, what are muslims meant to do (or any other groups) when they are attacked? Sit back and watch their demise?

Yes, I do. But, it is a different covenant.

So what do you make of the violence in the old test? Why is the quran bad while the O/T is good even though they both condone violence?

You've been watching too much Zeitgeist and reading to much Acharya. The Bible speaks out against the sun cult and the worship of the sun. If you do not believe part of the Bible then you must assume that it is all false.

Of course I believe in some parts of the bible, the parts that the quran also mentions but other parts i do not believe in, like jesus was the son of god, god being 3 etc

Less violent according to who? Was there a pole taken? Crucifixion is about as violent as it gets.

According to history, at the time of muhammad (7 AD) there were many battles and unrest in that area. Where as at the time of jesus there were no where near as much unrest and confrontation.

jesus wasnt crucified.

Exactly, its a matter of interpretation again. You are saying that Jihad is justified and I am saying that Jihad is wrong. Call them freedom fighters or terrorists, bottom line is violence will only lead to more violence. War does not, nor has it or will it ever, lead to peace. After thousands of years in recorded history of human wars we are now on the verge of yet another war. War, "holy" or not, does not equal peace.

Violence is needed sometimes.. let me ask you this. If I came round your house with the intention of hurting you, then stealing everything off of u, what would be your action if you caught me?

The illuminati are only about money to the extent of what money can do for them. Money is a tool for them. I'm of the opinion that the NWO will be a false peace that is brought about after WWIII (Jews vs Muslims) similar to the peace brought about during the Roman Empire.]

So your saying the illuminati has nothing to do with paving the way for the antichrist? And all the wars thats going to happen in the future is not for the protection of israel but rather for money?

[logos880]

Originally Posted by scooby85

you say violence leads to violence, which is true but sometimes it has to happen right? I mean if the muslims dont retaliate v the illuminati then there wont be any muslims left, what are muslims meant to do (or any other groups) when they are attacked? Sit back and watch their demise?

First, IMO, the illuminati are powerful enough militarily to destroy whoever and whatever they want. Look what the U.S. Military did to Iraq. I believe that peaceful resistance is the only way to defeat them. If you play their game with them you will become one of them.

Originally Posted by scooby85

So what do you make of the violence in the old test? Why is the quran bad while the O/T is good even though they both condone violence?

The O/T is part of the old covenant. It's also unacceptable to offer an animal blood sacrifice now.

Originally Posted by scooby85

Of course I believe in some parts of the bible, the parts that the quran also mentions but other parts i do not believe in, like jesus was the son of god, god being 3 etc

According to history, at the time of muhammad (7 AD) there were many battles and unrest in that area. Where as at the time of jesus there were no where near as much unrest and confrontation.

The reason there was less conflict was because of the Roman Empire; human nature remained unchanged. In this regard the Roman Empire may be a model for the NWO that is to come.

Originally Posted by scooby85

jesus wasnt crucified.

And you know this how? All the historical documentation I've seen says he was.

Originally Posted by scooby85

Violence is needed sometimes.. let me ask you this. If I came round your house with the intention of hurting you, then stealing everything off of u, what would be your action if you caught me?

Of course self defense is justifiable there but this situation is not a correct parallel to war. Yes, there will be personal human conflict on a small scale between individuals. But, I see no reason why war is or ever will be necessary. Rest assured that this world already belongs to evil and it will not be overcome by violence.

Originally Posted by scooby85

So your saying the illuminati has nothing to do with paving the way for the antichrist? And all the wars thats going to happen in the future is not for the protection of israel but rather for money?

No that's not what I'm saying at all. I agree that the anti-christ will be of the Illuminati. For the Illuminati money is just a means to an end. Money is only significant in the respect that money equals time. Time equals money; every hour of your time spent working is paid for. So in that context money is power over people's lives. It's been said that everyone has their price; that is why money is a useful tool for evil.

Wars are being staged in order to create an atmosphere of chaos in the world. Once the world becomes chaotic enough people will beg for peace and the Illuminati will be the ones to bring the peace. But this will be a false peace because they are also the ones who started the war in order to bring about the peace. In order for there to be a new world order the people of the world have to want a new world order. They will make us want the new world order peace through war.

[scooby85]

=logos880;First, IMO, the illuminati are powerful enough militarily to destroy whoever and whatever they want. Look what the U.S. Military did to Iraq. I believe that peaceful resistance is the only way to defeat them. If you play their game with them you will become one of them.

Could you kindly explain to me what peaceful resistance is? and how would that work when a certain group is in a war yet he is not fighting back but rather getting slaughtered?

When the illuminati wage a war on mankind, they are going around peoples houses and marching them off to some camp, are you going to fight back or at least try? I dont think being 'peaceful' will work very well then.

The reason there was less conflict was because of the Roman Empire; human nature remained unchanged. In this regard the Roman Empire may be a model for the NWO that is to come.

It doesnt matter why but the bottom line is that there was less conflict

And you know this how? All the historical documentation I've seen says he was.

I need one proof and thats:

004.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

004.158 Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

not only that, heres some more proof:

The Christian Gnostic (Knowledge) Gospel of Judas was made public this week and Judas was the hero not the betrayer. This was just the tip of the iceberg - The Christian Gnostic Gospels also tell us that Jesus was not crucified. The Christian Gnostic Gospels pre date the 4 Gospels kept in the New Testament. The Gospel of Judas was one of the Christian Gnostic (Knowledge) Gospels burned by the Church Fathers at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD and discovered in Egypt in the town of Naj Hammadi by a peasant in 1945. The numerous Gnostic Knowledge Gospels of Christ were burned by the Church Fathers because they made the 4 Gospels which they put in the New Testament in 325 AD look ridiculous. In the Gospel of Judas, Judas was the hero and most trusted disciple doing the will of Christ. Pope Benedict looked like the boy putting his thumb in the hole in the levee this week when he called Judas a "Double Crosser", sticking to the party line despite the new evidence to the contrary.

Of course self defense is justifiable there but this situation is not a correct parallel to war. Yes, there will be personal human conflict on a small scale between individuals. But, I see no reason why war is or ever will be necessary. Rest assured that this world already belongs to evil and it will not be overcome by violence.

I agree with u to a certain extent but it is the evil in this world (illuminati) that is starting all the wars, yes islamic countries are currently engaged in many wars around the world, however they have started none, in all of them they have been provoked first and if they dont defend themselves or at least try to then Islam isnt going to survive, its a necessity

I agree with you on some things but i think were just going to have to agree to disagree!

[scooby85]

Originally Posted by amaralsright

Is someone who calls Muhammed a false prophet innocent?

yes, u can call him whatever you like thats your opinion.

[logos880]

Originally Posted by scooby85

Could you kindly explain to me what peaceful resistance is? and how would that work when a certain group is in a war yet he is not fighting back but rather getting slaughtered?

When the illuminati wage a war on mankind, they are going around peoples houses and marching them off to some camp, are you going to fight back or at least try? I dont think being 'peaceful' will work very well then.

I don't think the plan of the Illuminati is to have everyone in work camps. I believe the NWO will be something very similar to what things were like under the Roman Empire. There will be peace, but not true peace. There will be a "new" religion that is state sponsored.

Originally Posted by scooby85

It doesnt matter why but the bottom line is that there was less conflict

I need one proof and thats:

not only that, heres some more proof:

Some examples of why Gnosticism is BS:

The word "Gnostic" is actually an umbrella term for many different heretical religious sects. These groups arose primarily around 200-400 A.D. Rather than being some kind of "long lost Christianity" or "original Christianity" which you might have read about, this is far from the truth!

Gnosticism existed in the Pagan religions of Persia around the 1st Century B.C. Since Gnosticism was a Pagan religion that existed a century before Christ, it is impossible it was somehow the "original" Christianity. It would be like saying Olympian Paganism was the original Christianity.

No Gnostic scriptures have been found older than the 5th century A.D. Gnosticism was a rebellion against traditional Christian beleifs and attempted to combine Paganism with Chritianity. Some Gnostic groups had beliefs that often contradicted the beliefs of other Gnostic groups. The one thing thay all had in common was that all of these groups departed from the orthodox Christian faith. Some of the various beliefs of these groups included:
*A belief in reincarnation

* That Lucifer and Christ were brothers

* That Jesus was not the only begotten Son of God

*That Jesus was actually the Archangel Michael

*That Jesus was all divine and not man

*That Jesus and Christ were two separate beings

*That the Creator God of the Old Testament was evil

* A rejection of all the sacred books of the Old Testament

*That John the Baptist was actually the Messiah, not Jesus

*That Satan is really Christ’s father and the God of the Old Testament is the Devil

*That salvation came through good works alone, and not grace

*That every sin in the Bible was a virtue and held orgies as part of their rites

* A belief in magic words and magic spells

*That women were inferior to men and some groups believed were incapable of salvation

* That sex between men and women was evil

*That the "villains" of the Bible (i.e., Cain, Simon Magus, the Serpent, Goliath, etc) were actually the "good guys". A sort of "Biblical character inversion".

* That The Serpent of the Garden of Eden was actually good and that God was evil

* The worship of the Greek goddess (an idol) of wisdom, "Sophia"

*That homosexuality was permissible and the only sex human beings should have

http://usminc.org/gnostic.html...thanks to Rodin for posting that site!

Originally Posted by scooby85

I agree with u to a certain extent but it is the evil in this world (illuminati) that is starting all the wars, yes islamic countries are currently engaged in many wars around the world, however they have started none, in all of them they have been provoked first and if they dont defend themselves or at least try to then Islam isnt going to survive, its a necessity

I agree that evil is starting the wars but having a policy of retaliation and vengeance serves to reinforce the cycle of violence and war. I also agree that Islam is being antagonized purposely in order to create conflict.

Hypothetical situation for you: Assume that the goal of the Illuminati is to have us worship at their altar. If that is the case we cannot be forced to do this; it must done of our own will. The things we do externally will change us internally. So, maybe the Illuminati know that through violence people will be fundamentally changed; so it would make sense that their goal is to get the world to take part in this violence.

They are trying to convert us...just like every other religion. The Romans did the same thing to the Christians. I think most people have a misconception about what the "system" actually is. The "system" in terms of the world we live in is not some type of governmental organization or abstract assembly that exists outside of humanity. The "system" is the perception of reality that has be socialized into humanity at large by the elite which serves to keep us in line. The "system" is the people and the people are the "system." The NWO is a new system...a "perfected" system.

Originally Posted by scooby85

I agree with you on some things but i think were just going to have to agree to disagree!

Agreed.