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i am all i am
13-09-2007, 01:46 PM
I LOVE YOU.

G'day everyone.

I have just finished watching this documentary and recommend it for everyone that would like to know and understand about ayahuasca. It is a revealing documentary, not only about the ayahuasca plant, but also about the persecution by the authorities (T-H-E-Y...The Heirarchy Enslaving You) of a natural plant and those that would use it. If you enjoy knowing and understanding what T-H-E-Y don't want you to know and understand, then this is the must see documentary for you, enjoy, Shamans Of The Amazon...

http://stage6.divx.com/Zambucas-Mix-Channel/video/1229978/Shamans-of-the-Amazon
Time: 52.18minutes.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

shansuke
13-09-2007, 02:34 PM
i cant understand why this forum has so many truth seekers,yet hardly anyone has tryed/or is willing to try this wonderfull life changing drink.you wanna know about other dimensions/higher planes of existance,you wanna know about reptilians,you wanna see the world as it really is then you only have to ask the vine.

pedsi
13-09-2007, 02:38 PM
i cant understand why this forum has so many truth seekers,yet hardly anyone has tryed/or is willing to try this wonderfull life changing drink.you wanna know about other dimensions/higher planes of existance,you wanna know about reptilians,you wanna see the world as it really is then you only have to ask the vine.

Have ye had a blast yerself???
I bought some online but it seemed very weak tbh..maybe i never brewed it right

shansuke
13-09-2007, 02:44 PM
what did you but online banisteropsis caapi and psycotria viridis,and if so how mutch,and how did you brew it.............ps i seen your earlyer post mon the scotland.

pedsi
13-09-2007, 02:50 PM
Cheers mate I got it here http://www.oceanwavevibrations.com/ .
I bought the strongest one available but I think I messed up in the brewing,it says to boil for 6hrs but i had it on more of a simmer now i look back on it..
got to head out to work now mate but I'd appreciate any advice you could give us....mon the hoops:D

rossus
13-09-2007, 03:03 PM
there is santo daime church in the US and there they drink ayahuasca a lot!
some people in US tried to illegalize it, but they failed.
if they wanted to ban it completely i'm sure they would have.

i'm not anti-psychedelics, but i don't like when people hype them like they're the best thing since sliced bread...
and terrence mckenna sometimes give me that impression.

all over the world people are like "mushroom mushroom! terence mckenna! carlos castenada! spiritual experience!"
but how much truth exactly is there in the experiences one have under the effect of psychedelic substances?
the mind makes things appear to be real. :p

long time ago, i have had many of "the most beautiful spiritual experiences" on psychedelics also.
but when the chemicals are out of the brain, what remains of all that?

i have spoken with people who have taken a lot of Ayahuasca,
and they believed that it helped them to "develope more spiritually"...
and they believed that "everytime they learn something new".

but if ya ask me, these people are just addicted to tripping... just like i was.
they seemed no more spiritually evolved than anyone else.
just regular people having "spiritual experiences" by altering of the brainchemicals,
believing that what they experienced is real and profound...

just because the mind make it seem real and profound.

shansuke
13-09-2007, 03:06 PM
if you want good psycotria viridis and banisteropsis caapi then you cant go wrong with mayaethnobotanicals.i would never buy sacred herbs from any of these online vendors who also sell party pills and street drug allternatives.six hours brewing time is probably not enough but looking at the herbs on that site i dont think any amount of brewing time would of helped you.ill post dose amounts and a good recipe for brewing as long as no one minds.....

auron
13-09-2007, 03:21 PM
Everyone should watch that documentary. :)

shansuke
13-09-2007, 03:43 PM
everyone should drink that drink..........

rossus
13-09-2007, 04:05 PM
everyone should drink that drink..........
no man,
it's not like the use of entheogenic plants turn you into a loving human being.

many satanists make use of entheogenic plants also.
i use to think also "everyone should trip",
then i give my friend this mushroomz and he gets deeper insight into his dark side and gets deeper sucked into that.

mushrooms, cactii, ayahuasca are all special plants...
but it's not that "everyone should use them".

when i see these people in the forest using these plants,
i get the idea that for them...
experiencing the "love of the universe" through spiritual experience under influence of ayahuasca gives them hope.

but instead of having to repeat the "spiritual love experience" time and time again when they are low on hope,
they could also feel that being low on hope deeply. feel the dark depths of their own heart...

and try to look for their trueself so they can recognize themselve as the love they seek true the ingestion of chemicals.
this way they would no longer be dependant on having to repeat the shamanic experience,

their heart would also be more satisfied because they would given it the attention it needs...
instead of use a plant to reload the battery again for a little while... until they need to be reminded again that
"the universe is all love, etc etc." <- these are thoughts, these are beliefs.

the love that is this universe is the love that you are. and you can be aware of yourself just like u can when being under influence of
mushrooms... and even be more aware... and more and more.



i(my ego) can only say what i(my ego) thinks holds some value.
i(my ego) don't know anything

peace homiez

basel
13-09-2007, 04:25 PM
if you want good psycotria viridis and banisteropsis caapi then you cant go wrong with mayaethnobotanicals.i would never buy sacred herbs from any of these online vendors who also sell party pills and street drug allternatives.six hours brewing time is probably not enough but looking at the herbs on that site i dont think any amount of brewing time would of helped you.ill post dose amounts and a good recipe for brewing as long as no one minds.....


have you got a link to the right stuff to buy?

is it this page:http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/product_list.phtml?category=ayahuasca

uchiha
13-09-2007, 05:01 PM
upon purchasing. do they send you a list of brewing instructions


Also. another site was givin to me by Auron and when i go to it they require you buy 3 different parts as appose to this site which requires just one

it also sells 30g as appose to your site which sells in no less then 100
For a variety of different types.. CONFUSED :( i am

ashyr
13-09-2007, 05:21 PM
you definatly shouldn't try datura 20 times. =/

pedsi
13-09-2007, 06:09 PM
if you want good psycotria viridis and banisteropsis caapi then you cant go wrong with mayaethnobotanicals.i would never buy sacred herbs from any of these online vendors who also sell party pills and street drug allternatives.six hours brewing time is probably not enough but looking at the herbs on that site i dont think any amount of brewing time would of helped you.ill post dose amounts and a good recipe for brewing as long as no one minds.....

fire away Mr Nakamura.......:)

shansuke
13-09-2007, 10:07 PM
a good starting dose is 50 caapi/50 gram viridis,but it would be a good idea to brew double that incase needed.ill post a good brew tech tomorow.thers also another good vendor called amazonhealing.

shansuke
14-09-2007, 01:44 PM
right pedsi heres yer recipe for 2 doses,maybe 1 depending on your size = take 100 grams of bannisteropsis caapi,wrap it in a towel and beat it with a hammer until the vine is in thin shreds.put the vine in a large non aluminium pot.now crumble the 100 gram psychotria viridis leafs with your hands in to the pot and add 3 littre of distilled water and 75 ml of apple cider viniger.bring this to the boil and then let it simmer/evaporate with the lid off, it should take about three hours.now when the brew has evaporated almost right down to the bottom you have to strain the brew threw a cloth or towel so you have a small amount of brew in another container with no vine or leaf in it.now repeat this brewing and straining prosess 2 more times.after the 9 hours of brewing you should have three brews worth in a seperate container,put this in a smaller pot and put it on a slow evaporate until you have a drinkable amount.......now as you can see this is a long prosess thats why i would not brew any less than 250 gram of each at once,that would be 5 doses for me.if you do decide to brew 250 grams of each at once the recipe wont change mutch,if anything add another 1 littre of distilled water and 25 ml of apple cider viniger per 3 hour brew.and also if you cant get your hands on distilled water a wee bird told me you can buy a still to make it from asda for about £10.also i know from experience that strathglen mineral water works to.apple cider vineger you will get from most supermarkets......remember to read up about maoi's,youve got to get youre diet right before you take your place on this ride,eating the wrong foods before or after may leed to a massive headache or messed up guts for days but taking the wrong medication from weeks beforehand could leed to disaster,be carefull........sorry about any spelling mistakes...................monthetic.

ladyjane
14-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Hi everyone
I have drunk Ayahuasca 10 times under the guidance of two master shaman Ayahuascaros plus three apprentices in the Peruvian Amazon and am returning later this year for 5 more ceremonies.

I know Aya is available in the West but I would never take it without the guidance of a master shaman who can hold the space and ensure no dark entities enter one's auric field whilst in the mareacion (ayahusaca state).
Ayahuasca opens the crown chakra fully and in an unprotected environment very, very unpleasant beings can take advantage of that. This is not fluffy New Age BS but a very serious warning. Demonic possession is real and not fun.

Not only that, taking Ayahuasca is not a recreational activity like popping a few 'shrooms. It will send to into the depths of your own hell, screaming, shitting and puking, thinking you're dying in order to deal with whatever you have to deal with. It is strong medicine, NOT a recreational drug.

Ayahuasca is not like other psychedelics but will take you beyond a trip experience deep into other realities. If any of you have read Rick Strausman's book DMT The Spirit Molecule you will read the accounts of seasoned psychedelic users describing DMT as like nothing else they have taken. Ayahuasca differs in certain respects to pure intravenous DMT but parallels can be drawn. For example, one subject is quoted as saying "this is REAL, not just like doing LSD/mushrooms".

I would concur. Ayahuasca bears no resemblence to any psychedelic I had taken. Interestingly, the Amazonian shamans are offended if you call the sacred vine a 'drug' or 'psychedelic'. Ayahuasca is so much more than that and as such should be treated with the highest respect. The vine should be taken, I feel, only in a sacred and protected setting.

This is why I am a little alarmed with folks on this thread suggesting home consumption. Perosnally I would never, ever do this but if you must, do your homework and know what you're letting yourself in for first.

Of note: in one of my ceremonies a spirit spoke to me and said "what David Icke has said is true". No sh*t!

shansuke
14-09-2007, 09:39 PM
i agree with most of what you say ladyjane but ayahuasca can and is being done without the aid of a shaman.i do think that folk should do ther homework though as they may not be prepared for what they will be letting themselfes in for..

ladyjane
14-09-2007, 10:06 PM
i agree with most of what you say ladyjane but ayahuasca can and is being done without the aid of a shaman.i do think that folk should do ther homework though as they may not be prepared for what they will be letting themselfes in for..

ok, I'm not in the business of judging others (for no-one knows your path better than yourself) I just hope people are ok because I know of people who have got into a big mess taking Ayahuasca without protection from dark spirits.

rossus
14-09-2007, 11:22 PM
"what David Icke has said is true"
so how you know what he/she saying is true?
they (external entity or just another part of your own mind?) can tell you anything.

mahabaratara
15-09-2007, 12:29 AM
Demonic possession is real and not fun.

Thats the bit some of the users dont want to hear...

Its a reality...

Just my 2p...

tejas
15-09-2007, 02:25 PM
I tried ayahusca, brewed it for ages and then nothing :(

Its smelly stuff as well

ladyjane
17-09-2007, 12:03 PM
so how you know what he/she saying is true?
they (external entity or just another part of your own mind?) can tell you anything.

how do you know anything that you hear or experience is "true"? How do you know whether what you are experiencing right here right now as you sit in front of your keyboard is "external" or "just another part of your mind"? You don't. The nature of what you experience is that it is all just your brain's interpretation of the hologram.

i am all i am
17-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Hi everyone
I have drunk Ayahuasca 10 times under the guidance of two master shaman Ayahuascaros plus three apprentices in the Peruvian Amazon and am returning later this year for 5 more ceremonies.

I know Aya is available in the West but I would never take it without the guidance of a master shaman who can hold the space and ensure no dark entities enter one's auric field whilst in the mareacion (ayahusaca state).
Ayahuasca opens the crown chakra fully and in an unprotected environment very, very unpleasant beings can take advantage of that. This is not fluffy New Age BS but a very serious warning. Demonic possession is real and not fun.

Not only that, taking Ayahuasca is not a recreational activity like popping a few 'shrooms. It will send to into the depths of your own hell, screaming, shitting and puking, thinking you're dying in order to deal with whatever you have to deal with. It is strong medicine, NOT a recreational drug.

Ayahuasca is not like other psychedelics but will take you beyond a trip experience deep into other realities. If any of you have read Rick Strausman's book DMT The Spirit Molecule you will read the accounts of seasoned psychedelic users describing DMT as like nothing else they have taken. Ayahuasca differs in certain respects to pure intravenous DMT but parallels can be drawn. For example, one subject is quoted as saying "this is REAL, not just like doing LSD/mushrooms".

I would concur. Ayahuasca bears no resemblence to any psychedelic I had taken. Interestingly, the Amazonian shamans are offended if you call the sacred vine a 'drug' or 'psychedelic'. Ayahuasca is so much more than that and as such should be treated with the highest respect. The vine should be taken, I feel, only in a sacred and protected setting.

This is why I am a little alarmed with folks on this thread suggesting home consumption. Perosnally I would never, ever do this but if you must, do your homework and know what you're letting yourself in for first.

Of note: in one of my ceremonies a spirit spoke to me and said "what David Icke has said is true". No sh*t!

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Ladyjane.

Thank you for your reply.

I respect that you have had your experiences with ayahuasca, there are a few things that I will point out here though.

Because you choose to ONLY partake of ayahuasca with a shaman, does not mean that this is necessary for others to do the same. How else do you think the first to ever experience ayahuasca did so without any experienced shaman about ???

Like all things that you experience, demonic possession is merely a choice. If you allow anything else to influence your thougts, actions, words, then it does not make you any less responsible for them. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing, can make any choice for you without your permission.

If you believe that taking mushrooms is a recreational activity, then you have missed the true essence of the mushroom.

As to "your own hell"...well, if that was your experience, then I suggest that you merely experienced what you chose to create. By being fearful in any manner whatsoever, you will be creating "your own hell", and that is what you will experience. Thoughts, actions, words, are your creative tools for mind, body, soul, to express and experience through. You can choose to express and experience through them positively (LOVE) or negatively (FEAR). The choice is entirely yours alone to create with.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

rossus
17-09-2007, 01:07 PM
how do you know anything that you hear or experience is "true"? How do you know whether what you are experiencing right here right now as you sit in front of your keyboard is "external" or "just another part of your mind"? You don't. The nature of what you experience is that it is all just your brain's interpretation of the hologram.
in the past...
many voices in my head told me lies,
many voices from other people told me lies,
"dark spirits" have also told me lies...

when i believe the lies, the belief then manifests as a feeling or even visible reality.
the mind makes it real. this is how it works for me, and how it works for everyone.
because all our bodies are being subject to the same rules of nature,
so are our minds.



THOUGHTS try to deceive us all the time.
thoughts of others,
thoughts of "ourself"
& thoughts of "spirits"...

the thoughts of spirits are actually also thoughts of ourself.
it is like scizofrenia. we hear a voice and see it as something other than ourself,
but it is just as much (or just as little ;) ) ourself as the thoughts we consider our "own".


when you remain clear in awareness and experience life without believing the thoughts that are attempted to be spun around it,
then you experience life truthfully. when you shine the light that you are on no matter how dark the shadow might be,
the shadow disapears.
FEAR/HATE/ILLUSION cannot exist without your belief in it.

the dark side tries to suck you down, from both the inside and the outside.
but when you don't believe the thoughts, the illusion can not trick you to believe it is real.
don't be afraid of fear, let it be. allow yourself to experience it fully.
in the core of every thought... every feeling... every experience...
you will find your self, which is love.



we are all born with THE DARK SIDE in us.
THE DARK SIDE is nothing more than FEAR.
it is inside every body because the body is programmed for survival.

you can choose to rise above fear (unhappiness) by pulling out the root of the problem.
this means to stop identificating with the body and with the thoughts.

you are not the body, nor the thoughts.
you experience yourself as the body and the thoughts, because you believe you are.
and like you may or may not have already noticed, belief manipulates reality.



you are GOD, you are INFINITE LOVE.
don't believe what i say... don't make it into another belief.
you don't need that.

find out for yourself, who you really are.
become aware of yourself.
watch the thoughts, watch the feelings, watch the impulses.
watch the desire, watch the fear.

they all happen without you doing anything.
YOU are that which experience life.
you are life, you experience yourself.

to realize you are yourself and not the belief (this process is called "self-realisation" or "enlightenment"),
simply observe the one who is observing. become aware of that which is aware.
look where the belief of being an individual begins.

every day, the lie begins with 1 thought that becomes a belief.
this belief is being reinforced by the experiences stored in the memory of the brain.
because you have believed yourself to be the thoughts and the body for so many years for so many times,
this belief has (wrongly so) become self-evident... and you have never questioned it's validity.

and you don't have to question it if you don't want to,
but if you do... you can.

for more info , read the book in my signature :)

ladyjane
17-09-2007, 03:53 PM
i am all i am, thanks for your comments. I would like to stress that I would never take aya without a shaman, but no-one knows their path better than themselves so if others choose to do different then so be it. I was urging caution not standing in judgement.

My comment regards mushrooms was a little flippant, in retrospect. I consider mushrooms a gift from Mother Earth to be treated with sanctity, it's just that many others do not.

In my experience, many people experience a considerable amount of darkness when taking ayahuasca because she goes deep within us in order to purge the dark entities out that have taken root over time. We experience them through the process of the purge thereby allowing the Divine Light of God Consciousness to enter our hearts. The only way out is through, you might say.

Through successive ayahuasca ceremonies one can learn how to deal more effectively with the dark entities as they surface by using the diferrent tools given to us by sacred ayahuasca.

adimon
18-09-2007, 02:48 AM
i agree with most of what you say ladyjane but ayahuasca can and is being done without the aid of a shaman.i do think that folk should do ther homework though as they may not be prepared for what they will be letting themselfes in for..

I took Yage (different name for the same stuff) after reading about it in the works of William Burroughs (my favourite writer). I went to a shop in Guildford where I had bought Peyote (mescaline) and Salvia divinorum from in the past.

I saw this weird bits of bark and asked the storeowner what they were and he said it was Yage. From the days of buying Peyote and Salvia I knew the storeowner was legally bound not to discuss the preparation or use of the plants, even though no-one buys this shit just to have it in their summer house and look at it.

So, I went onto a site which I believe was ayahuasca.com actually, and did A LOT of research. I ended up with a recipe, went back to the shop, bought what it said I needed, and spent a few hours crushing and sieving the shit (which stank btw) until I had this gloopy crap which I drank.

I sat down and waited patiently for the effects. Since I don't want to bore everyone to death with a really long story here's the experience in a nutshell (or rather a bullet list).

1. Felt really ill (as predicted)
2. Vomited for 15-20 mins (predicted)
3. When I stood up, felt weak and 'woozy'
4. Laid down on bed
5. Indeterminate length transition daydream (est. 30-60mins)
6. Full-on, lucid, stark, incredible waking dream/OOBE (this is the only thing that's happened to me anything like it, btw) for what seemed like 18hours of 'dream time' and was around 6hrs real time.
7. Woke up. 15-20 mins of 'coming round'. Felt 'stoned' for want of a better word.
8. Gradually felt more and more normal.

The OOBE itself concerned a trip to an amazing pine-forest and beach setting in Wells, North Norfolk, during which I explored human interaction, supernatural powers, and divine visions. I've written down a lengthy account (20000+ words) if anyone wants to read it, and would always say it was worth doing, but I don't read too much into it beyond chemical reactions in my brain, and the power of imagination. I'd also never do it again because I don't want to spoil the novelty of that time. But never say never.

Thanks for reading.

clipwip
18-09-2007, 02:59 AM
I've tried the link several times over the last several days and I can't get anything to play. It brings up the DivX small screen and then won't play anything. Any ideas why this is?

rasnalgoul
18-09-2007, 03:22 AM
I agree with what rossus says. I have experienced this with weed lately. And largely I find that telling my self an old rhyme 'so you think youve found a solution, well what you got is another illusion' always forces me to search deeper, and Im never quite satisfied. Ive come to see that even the experience of understanding that its an illusion is only an abstraction of a greater whole. I smoke weed now to help me be reminded of that state but to be honest If i were to practice better mind power and control I could think like this all the time and alter my self at will. But Im lazy and half addicted- heeehee. But I still think that currently its just an experience so Im going with the flow.

ashyr
20-09-2007, 10:58 AM
ive taken something similar called Datura.

I have to say. after taking it the first time. was tripping for 3 days solid.
if any of you know about datura/brugmansia. you know of some of the effects probably from reading erowid.org or something but man it was intense. and i was so sure everything i was deluded and believed was real. i could manipulate it. and me and my friend started manipulating the reality around us.

many witnesses found our heads/conciousness filling rooms / making them feel our manipulated reality thru psychosymatics.

this lead to us exploring the depths of our minds power on datura. and the also pulling apart of the experiences and preperations and what we felt was awesome or far out and what we did bad and revolutionised it.
before we knew it we were taking it every so often. i stopped counting around 20 times. my friend probably stopped counting around 30+ but man we had some really far out experiences and majority of it for me was unpleasant. yet i continued i dont know why. probably for better understanding of the spirit of the plant i had induced.

anyway now i have to agree with what ladyjane says 100% about the respect and setting/awareness of taking plants like these.

there is a spirit or a entity or deity inside these plants. and they do sing out to you. especially thru smell. if you have ever had datura u will know the song she sings when she's in the air around your neighbour hood. u can find her in the middle of the night without a torch and chew on here trumpets =D.

again i have also to say that my friend later was emitted to drug and alcohol clinic following being arrested for smoking marijuana. there he told the councellors/rehab agents that he had taken datura before.

the guy claimed that he didnt really beleive him but had to go by what he was saying and insted of doing his time at the clinic was ordered to write down and note everything he knew about the plant and what happens if u consume it. he didnt want to shock the guy or be locked up for saying he had actually taken it 30+ times lol. but either way this agent said. he has never had a proper/coherant or with it. conversation with anyone who has had datura.

but here i stand. and im sure im going to try aya. one day.

and it will be with respect and welcome and understanding.

good day to you ladyjane

jerichoforce
30-10-2007, 11:01 PM
give it up ba ba ba ba give it up ahhhh :cool:

holly_ocean
20-11-2007, 08:01 PM
Cheers mate I got it here http://www.oceanwavevibrations.com/ .
I bought the strongest one available but I think I messed up in the brewing,it says to boil for 6hrs but i had it on more of a simmer now i look back on it..
got to head out to work now mate but I'd appreciate any advice you could give us....mon the hoops:D

hi i'm from oceanwavevibrations and please feel free to email me with any queries or feedback!
Sorry it didn't work and don't know what was supposed to be wrong with the herbs - they are the standard ones!

holly_ocean
20-11-2007, 08:05 PM
if you want good psycotria viridis and banisteropsis caapi then you cant go wrong with mayaethnobotanicals.i would never buy sacred herbs from any of these online vendors who also sell party pills and street drug allternatives.six hours brewing time is probably not enough but looking at the herbs on that site i dont think any amount of brewing time would of helped you.ill post dose amounts and a good recipe for brewing as long as no one minds.....

what is it about the herbs?!

They are the standard ones!!!

ichi wa zen
02-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Any "enlightening" experience while on drugs or vines or leaves is not real and will not change a person forever like true enlightenment.

True enlightenment can only be reached through meditation. There is no other path. No books, no knowledge, no teachers, no drugs will get you there. Only experience. Your own experience.

elysiansix
06-12-2007, 12:56 PM
no man,
i(my ego) can only say what i(my ego) thinks holds some value.
i(my ego) don't know anything
peace homiez

You are SO right with that quote - and people are brought up to believe that it is the EGO that rules us and forms our core identity. THis is a load of bullshit: it's our character and personality that has all the potential and unless we develop it through many different whole body experiences - like travels to many of the most 'space tripping' places on earth which themselves have the highest of frequencies ......... we'll never develop and humanity will devolve into a stinking, stagnating pit of manipulation, coercion and threats to others to do as they're told.

Talking of which - anyone seen the latest Oxfam appeal for money with famous people either asking for your money, holding fishes or, in the case of Rob Brydon - imitating someone stabbing a dagger into the viewer. Now how's that for a bit of friendly personal advice?
We are seriously heading for some very dark and threatening times when you have 'famous' people acting in this way.

shellygurrrl
07-12-2007, 10:10 PM
I've used psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs for shamanistic, spiritual, and self awakening/self awareness.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with it. I have had serious experiences where it was therapeutic, and I worked out some baggage from my past. In fact, I was agnostic but rediscovered my spirituality and belief in the afterlife due to them.

I think you need to be strong and realize you control the situation no matter how bad it seems. I don't think anyone has died from them alone. It's hard not to crave that experience sometimes, frankly. I am trying to delve more into yoga and meditation to reach that state.

shellygurrrl
07-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Any "enlightening" experience while on drugs or vines or leaves is not real and will not change a person forever like true enlightenment.

True enlightenment can only be reached through meditation. There is no other path. No books, no knowledge, no teachers, no drugs will get you there. Only experience. Your own experience.

You may be right about the second part you wrote, but I disagree about the first. I know for a fact I have had enlightening experiences while on hallucinogens.

A definition of the word means "the condition of being informed spiritually."
"Awareness, understanding." I have experienced that definition many times.

It was very real and it did change me.

brians201
02-01-2008, 02:48 PM
The title of this thread was ... "Ayahuasca - A Shamanic Perspective". Well here is a little of that perspective ..

The compiler of the article below is also a Buddhist and Ayahuasca is used in proper ritual ceremonies to accelerate the process of peeling off our layers of ego and illusion a lot quicker than conventional meditation.
Without observing the correct diet one can suffer physical harm and without observing respect and ceremony for the fact that you are inviting the living being that is Mother Ayahusaca into your own being then one can suffer harm due to the enormous opening of one's energy centres so quickly. I think that the observance of Respect is the key here.

There is also an opinion that to buy the dried constituents of Ayahuasca over the counter and make your own brew at home is to lose a lot of the vital ingredients and energy that a ceremonial setting can provide.

Ayahuasca for me is not a Saturday Night Ride for spirtual thrill seekers but of course each is free to persue their own path. I am aware that the knowledge I currently possess is always changing and not an absolute truth.


Ayahuasca (Banisteriopsis caapi) is a vine of the jungle, which grows in the entire Amazonia, from Columbia to Peru, Bolivia, Brasil and Guyana. It is known to and respected by all indigenous peoples as a healing plant or master “teacher plant” and represents the basis of their traditional medicines.
Ayahuasca is boiled together with the leaves of a shrub called “Chacruna” (Psychotria viridis), giving a brew or sacred drink of psychoactive character that is consumed in a ritual ceremony leading to reflection and cleansing. This brew, named also Ayahuasca, has been used for more than 5,000 years by the shamans of the Amazon as a way to reach amplified states of consciousness.
The psychoactive effects of Ayahuasca can be attributed to Dimethyltryptamine (DMT), a substance that is produced by our own body and is responsible for our nocturnal dreams. According to the healers Chacruna is in charge of "painting the visions" whereas the Ayahuasca plant is the one teaching beyond those visions.
The term Ayahuasca is derived from the Quechua words "aya " meaning soul or spirit and "huasca" meaning rope or vine. This is translated as the cord of the dead or the vine of the soul and is considered to be a drink used by the initiated ones to communicate with the world of the spirits. This brew is considered to be the foundation of the magical-spiritual connection of more than 75 ethnic groups of the Upper and Lower Amazonia.
In the tradition of the Shipibo shamans of the Amazon jungle, Ayahuasca is consumed – among other things - to diagnose and treat illnesses and malfunctions in general, to take important decisions, to ask the Gods for advice, to solve personal conflicts - between families and between tribes-, to communicate with the spirits of nature, to exercise one’s divine capacities and to elucidate mysteries, thefts, disappearances, to know if we have enemies, to know the infidelity of our spouse, to reinforce our sexual activity, etc.
A series of scientific investigations have been carried out in the last years, which have contributed some important conclusions. Based on these diverse investigations we can affirm the following about the physiological effect of Ayahuasca on the human body: the lack of any hepato-toxicity of this vegetable compound.
The consumption of Ayahuasca within a controlled context shows no side-effects, it is not addictive and it does not produce any withdrawal syndrome, that is to say that people do not show any symptom of abstinence when they stop consuming it.
As Josep Ma Fericgla, Spanish expert in therapies with entheogens, affirms "...after thousands of years of its consumption in Amazonia there does not exist even a single record of undue use, of poisonings or accidents as a consequence of its use. There have not been cases of abuse or addiction to this substance, it is not poisonous, it does not generate dependency and there is not one case of crime associated with its consumption. " ("Breve informe sobre la Ayahuasca", Dr. Josep Ma. Fericgla. Article published in the internet.
Although it contains a psychoactive component, Ayahuasca cannot be considered and condemned as a classic drug of addictive and negative effects. On the contrary, we must ensure that its consumption never happens within a recreational or playful context. The norm of its use places it within a ritual controlled context of sacred, spiritual and therapeutic characteristics that lead us to a process of deep introspection revealing both agreeable and suppressed experiences, for which the use within a recreational, playful or compulsive context is inadmissible.
The vast majority of persons who consume it, indigenous settlers, shamans, healers, psychologists, therapists, drug-addicted patients, spiritual searchers, religious people and interested ones in general, do not consider this plant to be a drug, but a tool for introspection, meditation, therapy, inner cleansing, auto-exploration or a sacrament.
THE RITUAL SESSION
It is recommended that participants do not eat anything after lunch until the beginning of the session in order to facilitate the “mareación” (the condition under the effects) and to reduce the nausea.
The session generally begins around 9 p.m. The participants sit down on cushions on the ground and lean against the wall of the room. The first effects are perceived after a varying period of time depending on the person and session, but they generally appear after approximately 20 to 40 minutes and last an average of 3 hours.
During the ritual session of Ayahuasca, the participants must respect a certain code of behavior to guarantee the undisturbed development of the ceremony. If possible they should stay seated. The physical position reflects up to certain degree the spiritual attitude with which we receive the medicine. A leaning over or lying position implies a not very firm attitude. On the other hand, a sitting position with elevated head implies a good attitude. In oriental meditation techniques the same is reflected at the time of practicing sitting meditation. Moreover, it is easier to control the effects when sitting rather than lying, where we can sometimes feel great confusion.
It is important to observe the noble silence during the entire session and to avoid speaking, as the experience is to a great extent individual and interior, going so far as to disturb enormously other participants if we start speaking. We must equally avoid producing sounds with our hands or feet since our senses are sensitized up to very powerful levels under the effects of Ayahuasca, leading to the disturbance of others if we make annoying or repetitive sounds.
The visions during the experience of Ayahuasca are of the same nature as the visions during our dreams. Therefore, we need to keep our eyes closed or be in a dark place to be able to have visions. It is important to emphasize that experiencing visions is not necessarily the intention of the experience nor a way of measuring its effectiveness. Often we have no vision at all during a session, even though it is possible to nonetheless experience revealing amplified states of consciousness.
The psychoactive effects induce a modified state of consciousness, which is experienced as expanding and allows us to observe deep-rooted problems and open the censoring of the human unconscious mind. "The conscious mind discovers auto-observation, in the sense of the interior witness, which the main oriental religions speak of". ("El peyote y la ayahuasca en las nuevas religiones mistéricas americanas", Dr. Josep Ma. Fericgla. Article published in the internet.)
The Ayahuasca experience can lead to different results, such as the surprising and ecstatic meeting with one’s "Self", the identification of a true “Me”, not recognized and seemingly rediscovered.
This "transpersonal" experience naturally gives us security regarding ourselves and others. In the long run clear changes manifest in our rhythm of life and in the quality of our relations with others. It increases the security with regard to our intuition, flexibility and openness to changes, as well as visibly heightened capacity of our affective expression. All this is part of the result of a process of reconnection with our deep being, nature and the feeling of transcendency.

This is a summary of the book "El Ayahuasca - La medicina del alma (http://www.ayahuasca-wasi.com/espanol/articulos/libro/indice.html)" (Ayahuasca – The medicine of the soul) published in the internet in July 2002.

auron
02-01-2008, 09:28 PM
Fantastic post Brian! :cool:

2013
02-01-2008, 09:57 PM
Ive used them for the purpose of going deeper but have had deeper expereinces meditating .Cary grant used LSD t o sort his shit out it helped him rid loads of childhood trauma he said and had acid parties for his hollywood freinds , in fact it was used in prisons and by psychiatrists to good effect in the 60's before it was banned , one study of prisoners who repeatedly offended produced good results as most never reoffended due to dealing with their inner demaons and empathising with their victims , no wonder thye banned it ! As for aya would try it if appropriate. David ickes experiences like anyone on ayahusca would be personal to their belief system so therefore influenced byit , still relevant though and interesting for others to read about :D
I've used psychedelic and hallucinogenic drugs for shamanistic, spiritual, and self awakening/self awareness.

I don't really think there's anything wrong with it. I have had serious experiences where it was therapeutic, and I worked out some baggage from my past. In fact, I was agnostic but rediscovered my spirituality and belief in the afterlife due to them.

I think you need to be strong and realize you control the situation no matter how bad it seems. I don't think anyone has died from them alone. It's hard not to crave that experience sometimes, frankly. I am trying to delve more into yoga and meditation to reach that state.

kennethb
02-01-2008, 10:59 PM
Clavo huasca was all i found at the ocean waves vibration website, so i think people might'v expected actual Ayhuasca when that wasn't what was advertised in the first place, Holly

brians201
03-01-2008, 04:03 AM
Ive used them for the purpose of going deeper but have had deeper expereinces meditating .Cary grant used LSD t o sort his shit out it helped him rid loads of childhood trauma he said and had acid parties for his hollywood freinds , in fact it was used in prisons and by psychiatrists to good effect in the 60's before it was banned , one study of prisoners who repeatedly offended produced good results as most never reoffended due to dealing with their inner demaons and empathising with their victims , no wonder thye banned it ! As for aya would try it if appropriate. David ickes experiences like anyone on ayahusca would be personal to their belief system so therefore influenced byit , still relevant though and interesting for others to read about :D

Yeah the authorities criminalised LSD as soon as it became apparent that it could do some good!! Although I think they let a lot of bad stuff prosper on the open market just to degrade it's reputation further.
However Ayahuasca has been around for centuries being used as a healing plant for all manner of ills and unless they completely destroy the Amazon rain forest it is not going away!
There are now several places in South America where Ayahuasca is being used in treatment for addictions and the results are encouraging. So much so that there is now worldwide interest by more enlightened individuals and institutions in the use of this medicine for addiction tratment as well as for the opportunity to enhance one's spiritual development.

2013
03-01-2008, 01:45 PM
Yeah the authorities criminalised LSD as soon as it became apparent that it could do some good!! Although I think they let a lot of bad stuff prosper on the open market just to degrade it's reputation further.
However Ayahuasca has been around for centuries being used as a healing plant for all manner of ills and unless they completely destroy the Amazon rain forest it is not going away!
There are now several places in South America where Ayahuasca is being used in treatment for addictions and the results are encouraging. So much so that there is now worldwide interest by more enlightened individuals and institutions in the use of this medicine for addiction tratment as well as for the opportunity to enhance one's spiritual development.

Yes looks like we are starting to come back into balance now .This could be a good time :D

brians201
07-01-2008, 03:12 PM
Here is an amazing account of one man's journey .. posted here by kind permission of Peter Gorman.



A Shamanism Primer, from My Experience,
By Peter Gorman

I know many of you have vast experience with the vine. This long note is meant for those without that. This note is taken from the notes I made for a talk I gave last year at the Shamanism Conference in Iquitos which I've finally written down as I meant to say it, though it may not be what I actually said.

There is nothing here that is meant as an answer to anything. But over the years there have been questions and this includes some answers to those. That does not mean these are the right answers, just answers I got.

With all humility then, here are some basic primer lessons that I've been taught.

I’m going to begin with a supposition: that all matter has a life force. By that I mean that all matter—and probably anti-matter too for argument’s sake—is sentient, and has will, personality and the ability to make choices.

Now I’m going to add a second supposition: That all matter—and anti-matter for argument’s sake—dates from the first moment of time. That you and I can trace our lineage back to that moment, even if we were just cosmic dust balls billions of years from becoming slime creatures and millions of years further away from coming out of the primordial soup and clambering up onto land.

The same would hold true for a mountain, a rock, a flower. Everything we know and millions of things we don’t know trace back to that first moment when matter exists. If we were to look at a mountain, for instance, and apply my first supposition, imagine what that mountain has gone through since the dawn of time, imagine what it has experienced, and now imagine what it would be like to be able to communicate with that mountain about those experiences. It’s my belief that that’s doable; it’s my failure that I don’t know how to communicate with that being, its will, its personality. But that doesn’t mean it’s not doable, just that I fail at it.

Imagine the same for an ocean, for a fish that’s just been bitten by a predator, for a plant.

Plants, like everything else, are our co-dwellers in the universe. But man has a special relationship with plants. They provide, and have since the beginning of time, the bulk of our food, our clothing, our shelter. Some provide us with the loveliest scents; some with extraordinary color. They’re the source of our medicines, their roots work with soil and stone to keep the surface of the earth intact. They go so far as to take the poisonous carbon dioxide that humans exhale and turn it back into human-life-giving oxygen. That’s some relationship. Of course it may be that plants only invented us to distribute their seeds, so I’m not suggesting they live to cater to us. But they do provide us with much of what we need to exist on this planet.

Among the flora of the world as we know it, several plants are not just allies, they are considered Master Plant Teachers. You might extend that to read: Master Plant Teachers of Man. These plants might be considered gate keepers. These plants are the plants that allow us, we humans, to slow down enough to communicate with the mountains; to speed up enough to communicate with a hummingbird, to visit the other realms past and present and simultaneous that are here but that we don’t ordinarily see or hear within the band widths of our senses.

When I say other realms that are already here, what I mean are other realities that co-exist with ours. Imagine a dog whistle. You blow it, you hear nothing. Your cat hears nothing. Birds hear nothing. But blow it close enough to a dog and the dog will yelp in pain at the sound.

Now the dog hears it but you can’t. But it was still there. Your hearing just didn’t have a broad enough band. Now what I’m suggesting the Master Plant Teachers do is broaden the bands of your senses so that we see, hear, feel, touch, taste and sense things we can’t under ordinary circumstances.

Now the Master Plant Teachers include—and they are frequently called the 7 Master Plant Teachers—include Datura, Iboga, San Pedro cactus, Peyote, Ayahuasca, Amanita Muscaria….and I always forget the seventh, though I believe it’s Ololuqui, used by the Mazatecs and other indigenous groups in Mexico. There are undoubtedly others whose existence man has either not yet discovered or whose existence is being closely guarded by the peoples who use them.

There are a number of minor Plant Teachers as well, among them cannabis, Salvia divinorum, a number of species of mushrooms, coca, opium poppies and so forth. All of these are vital and can help alter the perspective of man but what separates them from the Master Plant Teachers is the depth of their teachings, the power or knowledge they are capable of imparting to man.

These teachers all have, I believe, the will and have made the choice to be teachers to mankind. They all, also, have built in mechanisms that ensure that mankind has to want to ingest them, has to want the knowledge they can impart or realize once they have opened the gates they guard for us. Most of them prevent frivolous or accidental use simply by being physically difficult to ingest. One might pick a peyote button and eat it with little difficulty, but to eat the 30-or 50 or 500 one would need to have the spirit of Peyote convinced that you want to learn what he has to teach is a very difficult thing. Similarly, the vile taste of datura or ayahuasca, coupled with the intense purging—often from both ends—that accompany the drinking of these teas, makes frivolous or accidental use almost impossible.

So while the rose suggests we come to her to bathe in her glorious scent, the Master Plant Teachers warn us away from them. You pretty much have to want what they have to offer, and be willing to prove it with physical discomfort, before they will share.

But once they do, well, when those gates are once opened they will never quite close all the way again. Your broadened band of senses will never quite be able to forget seeing or interacting with the spirits you encountered, the spirits that are sharing your/our space. In other words, the spirits never leave once you’ve made their acquaintance.

A clear example of that occurred several years ago. I was at my friend and teacher Don Julio Jerena’s home up the river from Iquitos in Peru. I had my wife and two sons with me—they were all born in Amazonia and loved going to Julio’s.

My younger son, Marco, was maybe 11 or 12. He’d been around ayahuasca several times: the first time Julio put a drop on his forehead; the next time a drop on his tongue. The third time he was permitted to wipe his finger around the cup after I drank, and so forth. But he’d never done ayahuasca in the sense of actually drinking.

But on this occasion I had some guests with me and on the day we were going to drink we all went out with Julio very early in the morning to collect the Banisteriopsis caapi vine and Psychotria viridis leaves he was going to use to make the ayahuasca. He also collected small pieces of bark from the Lupuna Negra, Catawa and Chiri caspi trees that he was going to use as admixtures. I insist on people wanting to drink taking that walk: If a 90-year old curandero can do it, and is doing it for us, the least we can do is keep him company. Marco joined us.

When we returned to Julio’s he began to cook the ayahyasca while we had breakfast---our only meal of the day—and then I sent everyone out for a long hike in the jungle. I did and do that for several reasons: I want them physically tired before doing ayahuasca. I want them tired enough that they are not concerned with whether they left enough cat food out at home, 3,000 miles away. I want them empty and clear so that the spirits, who often whisper, can be heard.

I also want them full of the sights and sounds of the jungle—from which ayahuasca comes and with which its spirit has grown up. And then I also want people to have an empty stomach before drinking, so that when they purge they can purge the bile of their lives, rather than undigested eggs. I’ll get more into that in a moment.

When people come back from the hike they are generally too tired to remember their own names, full of the things they’ve seen and been shown by my crew in the jungle, and their stomach’s are empty.

And not long after that it’s time to drink. Now some people choose not to drink, and for them there is always a feast of food waiting. And at Julio’s, in his platform hut, the kitchen is maybe 10 fee away from the living area we drink in, so that food is close and can be awfully tempting.

On the night in question my son, Marco came back from the hike and headed straight to the kitchen to eat. But then he stopped, came back to me, and said he thought he wouldn’t eat, but that he’d drink ayahuasca instead, if Julio and I would allow it. We did.

An hour or two later, probably twenty minutes after he drank, Marco called me to his side, saying he was frightened. I held him and let him lay his head and shoulders on my lap as I sat on the floor. At times it seemed that if I let him go he’d fly away. But Julio and ayahuasca are gentle and in two hours it had passed and Marco went to sleep shortly after that.

In the morning I was surprised when one of my guests came to me in the kitchen and sort of angrily demanded to know how on earth I could have let an 11 or 12 year old drink ayahuasca. I said it never occurred to me that he shouldn’t drink as he’d done everything asked of everyone else and then wanted to drink. Plus, he’d been born into a world where ayahuasca’s use was traditional.

"But what on earth could Marco have possibly learned at his age?" I was asked.

"I don’t know," I answered. "Let’s ask him if he learned anything."

We did, and Marco responded. "Well, before last night I was always afraid of the dark because I thought that’s when ghosts came and I was afraid of ghosts. But last night I realized they’re always here, right here with us. Only it takes ayahuasca to be able to see them and hear them and talk with them. So now that I know they’re everywhere all the time, and now that I talked with them and see they’re not all just trying to kill me, like I thought, I don’t think I’ll be afraid of the dark anymore."

And he wasn’t.

Of course, once Marco was able to see the ghosts with ayahuasca, he didn’t stop seeing them either. And now, even at 18, he often calls me into his room at night to ask me to tell one or two of them to stop talking so loudly as he’s trying to sleep. Or to speak more clearly if they want Marco’s help with something.

So that’s Master Plant Teacher work. It’s often very very simple, just like it was with Marco. Of course, if you don’t want to learn that ghosts or spirits are everywhere, if you don’t want to learn what a flower is ‘thinking’ or how badly a tree feels when you prune its branches, you may not want to deal with the Master Plant Teachers, who seem to always give you what you need, and rarely give you what you want.

In my own case, some of the teachings have taken years and dozens of sessions to learn; others have been very simple but no less profound. Once, years ago, I was in an ayahuasca dream and asked the spirits what I could do to make a better living as a writer. Without hesitation a spirit said: "Drink less. Write more."

That was it. The whole answer. So I drank less, wrote more and pretty soon was able to support my family on investigative journalism…no mean feat in a world which does not highly reward those who spend their time uncovering hypocracy and corruption in government quarters. Or acknowledging them in my own.

Realizing that inviting the spirit of a master plant teacher like Ayahuasca into your life has lasting repercussions is just one of the frequently overlooked but important aspects of these plants. There are several others I’d like to discuss as well.

Healing is a vital element of all of the Master Plant Teachers. With ayahuasca, with which we are concerning ourselves, that healing occurs on physical, emotional and spiritual levels, sometimes all in the same session. In northwestern Amazonia, home of ayahuasca, illness is almost always seen as a symptom of a disorder or disturbance on another plane. Accessing that plane and identifying that disorder will frequently eliminate the symptom. Ayahuasca is one of the methods curanderos—healers—use to access those other planes.

One other thing to remember is that in that same region, things like Mal Ojo, the Evil Eye; Seloso, jealousy, and other forms of negative energy, whether produced by a person or by a brujo—sorcerer—paid by a person, are considered to produce very real results. That’s because of a belief, or awareness, that intentions, like everything else, have a life force. And the life force of negativity, just like the life force of positive thinking, effects what it touches.

That said, at its most basic level, a person living on a river might go to a curandero and say that he’s got a problem. His problem is that his chickens keep dying and he doesn’t understand why. He asks the curandero to drink ayahuasca to see what’s causing it.

The curandero drinks, contacts his spirit allies and asks them the cause of the problem. They in turn might show him that a neighbor who is angry with the chicken farmer is adding a touch of poison to the chicken’s feed at night.

But the work doesn’t end there. A good curandero would look further, to see what might have caused such anger, and see that the chicken farmer, at some earlier time, had caused a problem for the neighbor.

When the curandero comes out of his dream he has good news and bad news for the chicken farmer. The good news is he’s identified the problem. The bad news is that until the chicken farmer acknowledges the initial wrong he did to his neighbor, the poisonings will continue and the chickens will keep dying.

Many of the healings are quite simple in retrospect: a man keeps hurting himself shortly after he sells his bananas and suspects someone of giving him the evil eye, so he goes to the curandero and asks him to drink ayahuasca to see who it is. The curandero does, contacts the spirits, and sees that it’s not the evil eye, but that the man, every time he sells his crops and has a little money, gets drunk and hurts himself. The solution is to stop celebrating when the crops are sold.

On one occasion in Iquitos I was present when a man came to a curandero named Juan. The man was beside himself. He was certain that his wife was cheating on him and about to leave him for another man and he couldn’t bear the thought. He wanted to know whether it was true and who the man was.

On this occasion, Juan, the man and I all drank. And all of us saw the same thing: we saw the woman—I only presumed it was the wife in question as I didn’t know her—speaking with a man on a busy square.

When the dream was over the man was even more distraught. "I knew it! I knew it! She’s no good and she’s leaving me!!!" he sobbed.

Juan asked the man to try to revisit the scene in the ayahuasca dream. He asked the man if he could identify the place. The man did: It was the Plaza 28, not far from the center of town.

Juan then asked the man to try to calm down enough to see the man in the vision clearly. This time when the man grew even more distraught: "She’s cheating with a Priest! A priest!"

Juan laughed. "No. She’s not cheating. Did you hear what they were talking about?"

The man said he hadn’t.

"She was telling him that you are so jealous that you always think she’s cheating. And then you hit her. And now, even though she still loves you, she cannot take your jealousy and the beatings anymore. So she was talking with the priest about getting a divorce."

The man started to deny it, then began to sob and admitted that what Juan said was true. He kept beating her because he thought she was so beautiful that everyone wanted her and he didn’t want her to leave him.

Those healings are quite typical of the work a curandero does with the people he treats. But ayahuasca healing is not limited to those sorts of things.

In sessions with my friend Don Julio, I’ve had guests clear up physical ailments that ranged from Irritable Bowel Syndrome to imaginary pain from the loss of a limb. I had one guest nearly three years ago come to the jungle to die. She was in end-stage cancer and wanted to disappear in the Amazon. She arrived taking a mountain of pills, from painkillers to anti-depressants. She cut out the anti-depressants prior to the trip—they would have had a bad-to-lethal effect in combination with ayahuasca—then drank twice with Julio and once with Don Francisco at Sachamama. She hated the trip. She hated me. She hated the jungle.

Nearly three years later she wrote me recently from southern Italy, where she’s touring on a motorbike, still cheating death. And still wondering why she is alive. The answer is that Julio, while under the influence of ayahuasca, saw some plants she needed to take to eliminate her cancer. The day after the second ceremony he had one of his sons collect them and made the woman a tea from them. She drank them religiously for a week—after that she was no longer with me so I can’t be certain she drank them at all. But they seem to have bought her a couple of good years at least.

One type of healing that is common with ayahuasca is soul-loss, a condition most Westerners have never even heard of, and if they have, not something they would believe is real. Soul-loss is a condition in which a person’s soul, life force, flees the body, generally during a traumatic experience, leaving the body nearly lifeless. If not treated, if the life force is not reunited with the body quickly, the person will frequently die, and if they don’t die, will be little more than vegetable.

Not long ago, an old indigenous Matses woman who lived not far from Julio, was washing clothes in her canoe on the river. She looked into the water and saw her recently deceased husband. He was calling to her to join him. Then she saw her own grave next to his. This we learned later. What those who were there saw was the woman suddenly lurch forward and fall from the canoe, screaming. She climbed onto the riverbank and began racing headlong through tall grass toward the village she lived in. In her panic she stumbled on a fallen tree trunk hidden in the grass and fell, hitting her head.

Her nephews brought her to Julio. They had to carry her from the canoe. Her breathing was very shallow, her eyes were rolled back in her head. She did not respond to touch.

Julio had her laid down on a hut floor and began to treat her. He chanted, cleansed her with smoke and Florida Water (the ubiquitous holy water of northwest Amazonia), then went into a trance that lasted perhaps an hour. During the trance he was as lifeless as she, except for moments of agitation when his fists would clench, his shoulders shudder and he would speak unintelligibly. He began to sweat profusely. When he came out of the trance his clothes were soaked through and he told the Matses men to bring her back the next day at the same time.

She left as lifelessly as she’d arrived, and she arrived the next day as lifelessly as she’d left.

The second day’s treatment was much like the first, except that Julio forced a little bit of a plant decoction he’d had his son make into the woman’s mouth. And this time, when Julio was in his trance and would tense up, the woman began to tense up as well. She was still unconscious, but moaned perceptibly, and gritted her jaw.

When he was finished he told her nephews to bring her back to finish her treatments the next day at the same time.

When she was gone Julio related that he’d seen the woman see her husband in the river calling to her. Then she’d seen her grave. It was such a shock that her soul fled, leaving her to fall from the canoe then race mindlessly until he’d fallen.

During the third treatment, while Julio began to chant, the woman began to move. She moaned, clenched her jaw and folded her hands into fists. She began to move her torso. Within an hour she opened her eyes and there was recognition in them. Julio chanted and cleansed and the woman was given a little more of the plant medicine—this time she tried to object to it—and her movements began to take on a solidity. An hour later and she was asking what Julio was doing and why she was there.

Another hour and she could be helped to her feet and, with assistance, walked back to the canoe. She’d gotten her soul back.

The next day she returned, still weak, and Julio asked what had happened to cause her soul to flee: She told the same story Julio had told two days earlier.

Ayahuasca is frequently called La Purga, the purge, because users tend to physically purge themselves. Generally, within 20-40 minutes of drinking ayahuasca, a person will be overcome with an impossible-to-resist urge to vomit that’s sometimes accompanied by a similarly uncontrollable urge to excrete. The ayahuasca dream generally sets in shortly after the purge.

Many people don’t understand the purge, but it is one of the most effective healing elements of ayahuasca—touching on the physical, emotional and spiritual levels at the same time.

In northwest Amazonia, among the most typical illnesses are gastro-intestinal problems. The reasons for this are many: in some places fish are sun-dried, but get wet in sudden showers, then dried again before being eaten. Parasites thrive on that setting. Likewise, meats from wild animals often carry parasites that, if not cooked well enough, will transmit to humans. Meat and fish headed to the markets in Iquitos will often be salted but otherwise uncooked and might be unsold in tropical heat and humidity for weeks.

Ayahuasca cleans out those parasites better than any other medicine available in the region.

But for those suffering emotional and spiritual issues, la purga is equally effective. Normally, it’s recommended that a person drinking ayahuasca fast for at least several hours and often for a full day before drinking. That ensures an empty stomach. But it won’t diminish the purging effects.

The difference in the purge on an empty stomach though is that instead of vomiting lunch, the participant will have a chance to vomit some of the bile of their lives. Things they carry around which clutter up their mental and spiritual arenas uselessly. Most of us don’t even realize what we are carrying: None of us can remember the first time we were scolded by what was, until then, the loving voices of our mother or father, but it certainly left a scar to realize that we were no longer simply loveable. Few of us remember all of the hearts we broke, or the lies we told breaking them. Many of us remember those who broke our hearts and every little lie that was told in doing it. That’s emotional junk that we’re better off tossing. Guilt for something we cannot fix? Get rid of it. La Purga encourages you do just that. Its spirit reaches down into the depths of your soul and roots around for those things, then brings them to the surface—in the frightening moments of ego-dissolution (which is why I gave ayahuasca the name Vine of the Little Death years ago)—in a wretched reliving, and then allows you to eliminate them. It’s not like vomiting at all: It’s as if great chunks of physical matter are explosively hurled from the bottom of your bowels—the vomiting often sounds like a waterfall in reverse, the water rushing up the rocks and violently cascading from your mouth. My guests swear they vomited heaps; in truth they rarely vomit more than the few ounces of ayahuasca they drank as they have nothing physical in their stomachs to eliminate.

That purge is often the most vital element in ayahuasca healing. One client who had a difficult time with the purging—it lasted all night—but had little in the way of visions, wrote six months later to say "How can I quantify the ayahuasca experience? Let’s just say that before the trip to Peru every day I woke up and wondered if today was the right day to put a pistol in my mouth and end it all. And now, every day, I wake and think: What a great day to be alive." That’s healing on an extraordinarily deep level.

Another client once drank with his wife. She spent the time under ayahuasca’s influence in a dream state, hardly moving after a short purge. He, on the other hand, vomited and shit himself for three hours, rolling around on the hut floor begging for mercy from whatever god he believed in.

The next morning, both of them wanted to talk with Julio. I interpreted. The wife had had a series of extraordinary visions that Julio skillfully interpreted; the husband demanded to know why his wife had visions of her future and things she needed to do to get a business off the ground while he had done nothing but puke and shit uncontrollably all night.

I asked the question of Julio, who laughed. "Tell him I was going to paint him with the colors of ayahuasca, but that when I looked inside him I realized that he was like a living room that was full of broken furniture, garbage on the ground, peeling walls. Who could paint a room like that? No one. So I had to spend the night cleaning it all out to get it ready for painting. Tell him I’ll paint him next time."

The fellow was skeptical, but the next time he drank he purged lightly and then spent the night enraptured in visions.

Another element of healing that’s frequently overlooked must be touched on. Curanderos in both the Amazon and elsewhere often have to suck illnesses—physical, emotional, spiritual—from their patients. But illnesses, like all other matter, are sentient and have the same will to live as other things.

The person who explained that to me originally was Bertha Grove, a curandera from the Southern Ute tribe outside of Durango, Colorado. She was an elderly woman, a perfect image of a grandmother, but very very powerful and mystical. I had attended several all night peyote ceremonies with the Utes, during which Bertha was always present and one of her grown sons was always the Roadman, or ceremony leader. It had taken probably a year to get permission to attend the first; after several I asked permission to bring my sister, a designer (she designed the MTV logo among other things) who had become an accupuncturist. Bertha said okay and Pat joined me.

The ceremony that evening was being held for a youngster who was quite ill. At one point during the ceremony Bertha stood, took the boy and began to suck the top of his head. In a few minutes a sort of squishy sound started and it felt as though something spongy and wet were leaving his crown and entering her mouth. She briefly stepped outside the tee=pee.

In the morning Bertha called my sister and I to her side outside the tee-pee. "You both saw what I did in there, didn’t you?" she asked. We said we had.

"I sucked that boy’s sickness out. But I don’t know if you understand that that sickness wants to live. It’s just as willful as you or me. And now if I suck that sickness out and spit it out it’s going to be lying on the ground just waiting for someone to step on it and then that person is going to get sick. They might not get the same sickness the boy had because sickness can change its shape and affect different people different ways, but it will always be sickness or something bad.

"So when we Indians suck out a sickness we don’t swallow it. We spit it out and always wrap it up in something—not that you can see, something like invisible gauze—and send it off somewhere to a place where it will never be allowed to land on someone else and make them sick. It’s a far off planet that’s cold. That’s where I send mine. Other healers send theirs to their own places.

"Now the reason I’m telling you this," she said to my sister, "is that last night I saw you. I saw that you are an excellent healer. But you have a problem. You’re taking sickness out of people and you don’t know to get rid of it so it’s just staying on you. You’re covered in a lot of sicknesses and you’ve got to stop because even though you’re strong you are going to get real sick, real soon if you don’t get rid of all that."

Six months later my sister did get sick: she got a host of illnesses that were apparently unrelated but which have left her crippled and in pain for the past 20 years.

In my own experience, I once went through an experience that lasted numerous sessions with ayhuasca over a two or three year period. My wife and I were living in Iquitos, Peru with our children and we were breaking up. Or she was breaking up with me, and it was tearing me apart. We had a bar at the time, The Cold Beer Blues Bar, and every time I had clients to take out to the jungle they were getting cured and I began to get jealous. One day I told a customer over the bar that "All my clients are getting healed, but I’m the one that needs healing."

It was said as a joke but must have had truth to it because the next time I drank ayahuasca with Julio, as I slipped into my dream I heard the rustling of grass that grew louder and louder as it grew closer and then suddenly found myself surrounded by little beings. I couldn’t really see what they looked like but was aware they were beings. "We heard you," one of them said.

"Heard me?"

"Yes. We heard you and it’s your time to get worked on, to get healed. The only thing we’ll have to do is tear you apart, get rid of the bad stuff and then put you back together."

The thought of that was terrifying. "I was only kidding!" I fairly shouted as they began to climb on me and pull me to pieces.

"No you weren’t. You’re just afraid you’re going to die. We’re here to heal you."

The next several hours were brutal, feeling myself torn apart, terrified, unable to move. And when they were done, they said they had more work to do and that I should not fight them so hard next time, that it wouldn’t hurt so much if I just let them work.

The next time and the next eight or 10 times I drank they always returned and it never got easier. I would hear the rustle of that grass and go into sheer panic. They worked on me despite my protests, trying to get the pain and anger I was carrying around out of me.

One night, while drinking with Don Francisco at Sachamama, I heard the rustling and nearly screamed. I was beyond fear at that point, and thought that drinking away from Julio would leave the doctors behind. It didn’t.

But that night when they came they only worked for a little while, then began to show me things: The showed me a light stone and told me it would heal things. They sang me songs to repair myself, and then they took me to a place that was sort of a huge cavern dimly lit in red. All throughout the cavern were huge piles and mounds and hills and even mountains of rotten, fetid garbage. The smell alone made me vomit horribly. It was an unbearable place. And the sounds! Every few seconds there would be a crashing sound somewhere in the cavern that was as loud as an airplane exploding, a thunderous roar that seemed to shake the whole cavern and me with it.

For some reason I couldn’t or didn’t leave. I began to grow accustomed to the light and when I did I saw movement on the heaps and piles. I looked more closely and realized that there were hundreds, perhaps thousands of the beings I called the doctors there. They were scooping up the rotten material and doing something with it so that it was transformed into something good. I don’t believe they explained that to me but it was as clear as if they did. And then I realized that this was one of the places where all the evil, all the rotten things in the world go. What was crashing in to the place were the bad things done and thought by people and the stink was the stink of greed and jealousy, avarice and willful infliction of pain. That’s what made it so horrid.

And at the same time I thought that I thought of Bertha Grove and her far off planet and knew that should the need arise, this red room would be a place to put illness and evil so that the doctors could transform it the way they’d been trying to transform me by trying to eliminate my anger at my ruined marriage.

The lessons were not for naught. That same evening, when the ceremony was over and people were ready to go to sleep, one of my guests was still in the middle of a very difficult ayahuasca dream. She asked Francisco and another curandero who had run the ceremony with him not to leave but they did, leaving just myself and a youngster whose mother was one of my guests, to take care of the sick guest. Sick is not the right word: She was certain she was being attacked psychically and thought she would die. I don’t know if she would have but she believed it and her fear might have caused it if nothing else, so she had to be treated as if what she said was true.

I didn’t know what to do so started singing. I only had one or two very little ayahuasca songs, so I sang blues songs that I thought would calm her down. And after perhaps an hour, when things didn’t seem to be getting better, the doctors suddenly began to talk to me. They told me to look at her and see if there were any black holes in her. If there were they told me to retrieve the light stone and run it through them. I felt silly but did: the holes closed. And the more holes I found the easier it was to spot them. They told me to blow wind on her. Not breath, but wind, and taught me how to do it so that when the air came from me it really came from way behind me and by the time it came from my mouth it had tremendous force, like a storm wind that came roaring from a far off place. And they told me to keep singing and told me to take any bad things I found on her and just open a door anywhere—it would be the door to the red room—and put the bad things in there. I did as told.

Perhaps three or four hours went by before my guest began to come back to her body and I knew she’d be alright.

Interestingly, when Francisco and the other curandero returned at about dawn to look in on her I challenged them on why they’d left, knowing she was in such a bad state. Francisco simply said, "It was your turn to heal her tonight. You knew what to do." Or something like that. It took me off guard. I’d never been put in that position before.

I rarely am asked to heal anyone. But on occasion it does happen, and one recent event cemented Bertha Grove’s warning about sicknesses as good advise.

It was this past summer, in July of 2006.

Because of his age, Julio’s children encouraged him to move from the jungle to Iquitos last year. They were no longer living with him full time, and were afraid that if he fell no one might see him to help him for a day or more until one of them—living there only part time—would find him.

But there exists several layers of shamanism in Peru—and undoubtedly elsewhere—that most of us non-locals don’t see. One is the belief that the spirit allies Julio has made during his lifetime, as with any other curandero, will be passed to whomever is at his side when he dies. In that world, those sentient beings take years to acquire as genuine allies, and the chance to simply ‘get’ more by being near a curandero when he dies is a temptation that has caused more than one curandero to kill another. I don’t understand why the spirits would work with someone who has killed their friend—perhaps they don’t—but still, the race and battle to acquire the allies of a powerful curandero like Julio is very real.

And Julio’s appearance in Iquitos was an indication to many of them that he is growing weak and will die soon. To that end, at least one but perhaps more than one, curandero began to try to weaken him further by "shooting" him with virotes—invisible darts that can do physical damage. Their use is generally reserved for brujos, curanderos who have fallen off the spiritual path of curing and onto the selfish path of power acquisition. Many curanderos go through a stage in their lives when they behave as brujos because of the allure of power—which brings with it money and goods and women and so forth. In my experience most grow out of that stage and return to a positive path, but not all of them do. Those that don’t are the people available for hire to send out the evil eye, tempt women to cheat on their husbands, cause accidents and so forth.

Virotes, can best be described as thorns that are sent by intention that enter the body invisibly, though they then begin to take a physical toll. In Julio’s case the virotes had left him listless and weak to the point where he couldn’t feed himself.

One of his sons-in-law came to my room in Iquitos and told me to hurry to Julio’s, that he thought Julio would die. I’d been with Julio in the jungle just two weeks earlier and so was taken completely by surprise at the news. On the way over—accompanied by a young healer friend named Aaron—Juan, Julio’s son-in-law, explained that Julio had been recently attacked and hit with several virotes. I’d been called on to locate and remove them before they killed Julio.

That was way over my head. Still, I had to try.

When we arrived at Julio’s he was lying in bed, his breathing shallow. I had him brought to the front room and began to clean him with tobacco smoke and Florida Water. He sat in a chair, hands on his knees, his face looking old and lifeless. I began to chant. Aaron lit some sandalwood and began to clean Julio with that, and took over the chanting whenever I stopped.

I tried to ‘see’ Julio; not look at him so much but see where the virotes were lodged. I couldn’t. We worked for an hour, after which Julio began to move his hands and said that he was tired. We left him for the day.

The next day we returned and continued to chant and cleanse; after-two-and-a-half hours he was perceptibly better and Aaron and I were exhausted.

The third and last day was different. This time I could clearly see what looked to be bad things in Julio: In his stomach, his legs, even his neck. While Aaron chanted, I began to suck them out: each one that came loose entered my mouth like a ball of thick phlegm. I quickly spit them out, opened a door to the Red room and asked the doctors to take them from me and turn them into something good.

There were probably five or six things that had to go. The one in his neck, however, came out so suddenly that it slipped down my throat: Instantly I convulsed and began to vomit violently. The vomiting was followed by choking and I thought I got rid of it—or most of it, at least. But I could feel something rotten deep inside me, something awful. I decided to work at eliminating it in my room later that day and turned my attention back to Julio. In two hours or so he was beginning to clean himself, smoking a mapacho and taking over the chanting for Aaron and I. He was strong and he was angry. He began to shout to whomever had done this to him that they would never have his genio’s, his spirits, for allies.

Aaron and I were again exhausted, but Julio was better and that was what counted.

But that evening and for the next two days I would periodically vomit violently. I got a fever and was sweating through several shirts a night. During the day Aaron worked on getting the ‘thing’ out of me, and on the third day, it came loose and I was able to get it into the Red Room.

But it was a reminder that what Bertha had said was true: The sickness has a will to live. That I would be so instantly sick surprised me, but it also reinforced the idea that there are many many things I, at least, have no real understanding of.

Another point I think needs making, as it frequently comes up in conversations related to the use of ayahuasca, San Pedro, Peyote — and probably with all of he Master Plant Teachers — is the question of the value of a curandero. The question that arises is whether or not a curandero — in the case of ayahuasca or San Pedro — or a Roadman — in the case of peyote — is necessary. The answer, I think, is that they’re not necessary — the plants will teach you what they want to teach you whether there is a curandero or not. But I think that the extraordinary work a good curandero can do can add whole dimensions to the experience.

On a physical level, the curandero is the master preparer of the ayahuasca. He must be compared to a chef, rather than a cook. More than that, however, his interactions with the spirits of the plants he’s working with are what’s of great value. The plants must give up their chemicals to whoever puts them in a pot and boils them. That’s the chemistry of it.

But the curandero, through his relationship with the sentient side of the plant, can encourage those plants to give up more than their chemical components, to give up their life-force, their essence. This is not to be underrated. Two bottles of ayahuasca may look alike, may have been cooked in identical pots with identical ingredients for an identical length of time but they are rarely the same. Imagine a battery of chefs lined up at identical stoves using identical ingredients in an identical recipe with each doing exactly the same things at the same time. You might imagine that each of the dishes will be identical, but you’d be wrong. Each will be quite different depending on the relationship each chef has to the spirits of the ingredients he or she is using.

On a spiritual level, the value of a curandero or roadman is even more pronounced. He or she has generally spent years becoming intimate with the spirits of the plants. Moreover, the curandero might have several plant allies and depending on the needs of those drinking on a given day might have a variety of admixture plants they can add to the basic ayahuasca vine and leaf recipe. Julio likes to add a bit of bark from both the perpetually light and dark sides of the Lupuna Negro tree to provide easier access to the realms of light and darkness; he likes to add Catawa sometimes to burn out something negative; he might add Chiric sanango when he knows he needs to work very very deeply with someone or someone needs to visit the world of the dead. And each of those plants, and several others he might utilize, bring their individual spirits and personalities to the ceremony.

Too, the curandero, with the help of his spirit allies, can keep other, curious but uninvited spirits from joining the ceremony—spirits who might not mean harm but whose presence will nonetheless interfere with the ceremony the curandero wishes to run.

And running the ceremony is really what a curandero does. It might look to an outsider as if Julio is just sitting on a stool, chanting and shaking a chacapa, a leaf rattle, but he is doing much more than that. He is seeing what each person is dreaming. His icaros, songs, are sending some further out into their dreams and pulling others back down to earth at the same time. He’s healing everyone simultaneously as well, even those who don’t know they need it. He is asking his plant spirit allies to work with everyone and his allies respond.

Until you’ve experienced it, that is a difficult thing to believe. One former guest of mine who has become a great friend, had this experience. It was the first time he’d had ayahuasca. I think I had six guests, four of them women. My friend Lynn was not having much of a reaction to the medicine and at one point in the ceremony, he told me the next morning, he mentally called out to Julio to show him something, give him a hint whether there was really anything going on or whether he’d taken a very expensive trip for nothing.

"I had my eyes open while I was thinking that," he said. "And as soon as I did, Julio suddenly stood and grew to 14-feet tall and his chacras began spinning with the most fantastic lights, shooting colors all over the space and me. And then he very clearly said. ‘Now can I get back to the work I was doing on the women?’

"In that moment I understood something fantastic happens out in that realm — a realm that I wasn’t certain even existed until that point in time."

Another guest who discovered the unusual ways in which a curandero works was a fellow named Lee. Lee and his wife had come to Peru seeking to learn something of Peru’s alternative healing possibilities, as his wife had a terrible illness she was keeping at bay with alternative medicines and she wanted to stay ahead of the curve.

They had asked for a private tour and had asked me to assemble the best curanderos from around Peru in Iquitos. One of them was a San Pedro healer, Victor Estrada, an extraordinary man who’s been a teacher of mine for years. Victor’s own teacher was in Iquitos and he didn’t mind the trip from the mountain city of Cuzco at all.

We’d arranged for a San Pedro ceremony the day after Victor arrived, with just Lee, his wife, Victor and a daughter he’d brought, and I as the participants. We all drank several cups of the still-warm, thick green San Pedro, and then Victor began to work. Unlike Julio, Victor is very hands-on his patients, and he worked on Lee’s wife for several minutes—pulling and pushing her energy, which was visible to all with our broadened bands of vision, then turned his attention to Lee.

He had Lee lie down, then selected a stone from a bag he carried. He began to run the stone over Lee’s body. But it wasn’t a stone any longer: It was a scalpel, and each time he moved it blood would come from the incision. It was plain to see, and something I’d heard about but never witnessed before, a psychic surgery.

Victor cut Lee open, took out a mass of his insides, washed them, cut out pieces Lee no longer needed then did the same with Lee’s nasal passages. Pieces of rotten flesh made a pile on the ground. Blood soaked Lee’s clothes and the ground on which he lay.

And then Victor replaced the good parts of what he’d removed and sewed Lee up.

Lee was exhausted and stayed on the ground for hours. Victor continued to chant, but was obviously exhausted as well.

The ceremony ended not long after dawn, and in the early light there was no blood on the ground, no pile of rotten meat. I asked Victor about what I’d seen and he laughed. "I wanted you to see that," he said. "It’s the work the way we do it with San Pedro. We just do it on one of your other bodies, so the blood is real, but real in another reality. Here only the effects are real. Your friend was quite sick."

It was only months later that Lee brought up the fact that he’d suffered from some uncomfortable or debilitating condition all of his life, but that the condition was cured that night. Now nearly 10 years later, it’s never returned.

A few days later, I took Lee and his wife to Julio. I’d refused to bring him into the city and Lee, while not thrilled, grudgingly went along on the 17 hour riverboat to get to his pueblo.

Julio was glad to see me and we arranged for a ceremony the following night.

It was a beautiful ceremony, and in the morning Lee came to me. "Peter, something happened last night that I don’t understand and maybe you can help. You know how much work Victor did on me the other night?"

I told him yes.

"Well, the purpose of this trip is to find new alternatives to help keep my wife’s disease in remission and so last night I determined that the ceremony would be for her, not me.

"So I drank, then lay down and just looked at the sky. And then I looked at Julio. And he was talking with someone sitting next to him, and they were speaking in English. And Julio suddenly says ‘You know, I can’t work on him if he keeps his legs crossed like that.’ And instantly, my legs, which I hadn’t realized were crossed, uncrossed themselves without me doing it. And for the rest of the ceremony I couldn’t cross them again. How did that happen?"

"I don’t really know," I said. "I do know that there was no one physically sitting next to Julio last night, and I do know that Julio can’t speak a word of English. Not on this physical plane, anyway. But on those other levels, all sorts of things happen. And uncrossing your legs with his intention would be the least of what he can do."

Those sorts of healings and experiences I don’t believe occur without the presence of a curandero.

There are many many other elements to ayahuasca and ayahuasca healing but these, I think, are some of the most important basics. Feel free to add to these or challenge these or tell me if I'm off base or whatever.

Thanks for reading,

Peter Gorman
_________________
Thanks, gorman
http://thegormanblog.blogspot.com/ (http://thegormanblog.blogspot.com/)
pgorman.com
petergormanarchives.com


Here is link to this years conference in Iquitos. www.soga-del-alma.org (http://www.soga-del-alma.org)

cf24
07-01-2008, 08:38 PM
I was looking through Peter Gormans website the other day, he does some great tours, not cheap, but amazing......

brians201
09-01-2008, 05:55 PM
The 4th International Amazonian Shamanism Conference: Magic, Myths and Miracles

will be held in Iquitos, Peru - July 19th - 26th, 2008

The website is: www.soga-del-alma.org (http://www.soga-del-alma.org/)


And keep up to date on http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=16125

I will see you all there .... :cool::cool::D

carlo
11-02-2008, 04:14 AM
Have you been reading David Icke?

shansuke
12-02-2008, 10:40 AM
thanks for that brains201.ive been looking forward to traveling to the amazon for a few years now its just to expensive thow i hope if all goes to plan i will get ther early next year.