Milk: The Deadly Poison

[chattanova]

'What the government doesn't want you to know about milk. We know it contains fat and cholesterol, but did you know it contains the protein CASEIN (which is basically a glue which leads to a lot of mucous build up and other health problems like asthma and congestion), milk also contains ... powerful growth hormones, viruses, a host of deadly chemical and biological bacterial agents, bovine proteins that cause allergies, insecticides, antibiotics, all this can trigger the growth of cancer and contributes to today's problem of obese children (ever notice why young girls breasts develop faster?).'

Milk The Deadly Poison WATCH THIS!!! - YouTube

[hagbard_celine]

Bloody hell! Not again! :mad: Is there anything that you can put in your mouth that can't kill you!?

I eat organic food and don't drink fizzy drinks. I think I've reached the point where I'm just going to have to take my chances.

[kblood]

Omg... I hope I wont grow boobs from drinking milk :(

As I have written earlier though, I simply each very different kinds of food, and I try not to eat or drink any one thing in large quantities. I am not much a milk drinker, but I do not fear drinking milk, even if it does contain all those poisons. I just dont drink 1-2l of milk a day. Usually I eat 1litre of yoghurt a week, mixed with oatmeal I think its called. Eating lots of varied foods makes it less likely for any one of the poisons to really take effect (if there are any dangerous poisons in the food at all).

Also, I do sometimes buy fruit and salads and eat that for a few days. I do not think they can really poison fruit and salad so much that it kills us. Same goes for rice and potatoes as I see it. Heck, I smoke voulentarily sometimes. I wont live in fear, so when I want to eat or drink something, I simply do. I trust my body and my instincts.

Name ya poison? ;)

[chattanova]

I wont live in fear, so when I want to eat or drink something, I simply do. I trust my body and my instincts.



Same here mate:) I still haven't been sick of any food I've ever eaten(as I remember:confused:)
Milk have never been a favorite but this won't change my menu.:cool:

[pumma]

I need a cow > do they sell them on eBay? :D Just kidding...

Thanks for sharing chattanova

[soglad]

I don't drink milk.....lactose is very bad for you......plus....it's Cow's milk...........for Cows............take a hint........

Don't touch dairy either!

[chris]

Very good post chattanova.

Cheese is even worse as far as glue and hormones.

You really need to do your research when it comes to diet, you won't eat this shit and die but it will make your duller and duller to the point you simply can't be bothered to do anything THEN you die.

For one of the best nutrition resources on the web goto 2tuff's website...

http://s13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MIND/

[LasseMaja]

Homogenization is not good for your stomach. It may cause allergies.

Non homogenized milk tastes a lot better... if you still consider milk drinking (I think it tastes so good!)

[kblood]

Homogenization is not good for your stomach. It may cause allergies.

Non homogenized milk tastes a lot better... if you still consider milk drinking (I think it tastes so good!)

Yea, I prefer that kind of milk as well, and since I do not drink alot of milk, I might as well buy milk I like :)

I agree with Chris as well. I try to make sure that the food I eat is not too unhealthy, and when I do feel too lazy or something like that, then I begin drinking lots of water, and eating fruits and salad for a while. It usually makes me feel better, and clears my head. If I also add some exercise to it as well, then it is really an energy boost that can be felt. Usually makes it easier for me to be happy as well.

[informationx]

Bloody hell! Not again! :mad: Is there anything that you can put in your mouth that can't kill you!?

I eat organic food and don't drink fizzy drinks. I think I've reached the point where I'm just going to have to take my chances.

I know how you feel!

First something is good for you, next its bad! agghhhhh! lol

Ive come to the conclusion, no one , knows anything anymore.

I'm not dead yet from drinking milk, so perhaps my body has become used to it. Anyway interesting video.

[thoth]

Goddamit!! Drum Roll!

[ashyr]

yeah the reality of it is that somehow we adopt the cow as our mother and suckle on its teat.

via the machine forced extraction,transportation,filtration,pasturization (heating it up),homoginization(spliting the fat particles),cooled,watered,(whatever added to it. onto my fucking weetbix milk!!!

we eat eggs, but we dont eat our mothers eggs,

and no matter how far u run, you are always what you eat.
materia

[megafish33]

lol Casein isn't "a glue," it's just a protein. Athletes use it as a supplement to enhance muscle growth all the time. Fiber actually does turn into a gluey or pasty substance inside you, and that helps eliminate toxins and excessive cholesterol. Shall we stop recommending fruits and vegetables due it's fiber? Of course not.

I consider dairy a 'new food,' just like grains/seeds/grasses. Our original food, IMHO, was fruit/nuts and some vegetation. But, our switch from a herbivorous to a omnivorous diet was a major factor in our evolution, IMHO.

I have dairy regularly (but cycle on and off, it very insulinogenic) because I'm active but omit it, along with other foods during cleansing periods. If you don't have dairy, you can still have your fats by way of almond milk! If you make it yourself you can add all kinds of extras like vanilla and honey or whatever... it's so good.

[james777]

'What the government doesn't want you to know about milk. We know it contains fat and cholesterol, but did you know it contains the protein CASEIN (which is basically a glue which leads to a lot of mucous build up and other health problems like asthma and congestion), milk also contains ... powerful growth hormones, viruses, a host of deadly chemical and biological bacterial agents, bovine proteins that cause allergies, insecticides, antibiotics, all this can trigger the growth of cancer and contributes to today's problem of obese children (ever notice why young girls breasts develop faster?).'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpafipJyDE

I don't usually look at or inspect young girls breasts, but you may actually have a point here.........

[nickatnoon61]

I don't drink milk.....lactose is very bad for you......plus....it's Cow's milk...........for Cows............take a hint........

Don't touch dairy either!

Good on ya Soggy!!! You are far beyond your years in common sense, and awareness!There is sooooooo much denial/rationalizion on this thread!!! The addiction to certain non-foods is very strong, and the reality is, most would rather die, or be sick all the time, than change their addictions/dietary habits! The little girlymen/babies must have their milk!!!! ha ha These drones come on here seeking truth and freedom, yet continue to support all the garbage food industries that keep them dumbed-down,and sick,!!! It's pathetic!!!! Great Britain has, probably the worst diet on the planet! It reflects on their medal standings in the OLympic Games! They stick a friggin' meat pie in a microwave and wash it down with milk, and wonder why they are so confused,constipated, and depressed!!! There is a direct correlation between what you eat and how/what you think!

[nickatnoon61]

I don't usually look at or inspect young girls breasts, but you may actually have a point here.........

Ya right James!!!:eek: Tell me another one!!! ha ha:D

[soglad]

Good on ya Soggy!!! You are far beyond your years in common sense, and awareness!There is sooooooo much denial/rationalizion on this thread!!! The addiction to certain non-foods is very strong, and the reality is, most would rather die, or be sick all the time, than change their addictions/dietary habits! The little girlymen/babies must have their milk!!!! ha ha These drones come on here seeking truth and freedom, yet continue to support all the garbage food industries that keep them dumbed-down,and sick,!!! It's pathetic!!!! Great Britain has, probably the worst diet on the planet! It reflects on their medal standings in the OLympic Games! They stick a friggin' meat pie in a microwave and wash it down with milk, and wonder why they are so confused,constipated, and depressed!!! There is a direct correlation between what you eat and how/what you think!

RIGHT ON!

My family's diet consists of microwave food, take aways, milk, dairy and fizzy drinks and it reflects on their being. Lots of depression with them, and they DON'T KNOW WHY!

BIIIIIIIG fucking Elephant in my living room and no-one seems to complain.

Well, he's sitting in front of the tele where I used to sit, so I can't complain..

Actually, nickatnoon61, this'll give you a laugh....I was in the kitchen making a cracker of a salad for myself (I make 'em good and varied :)) with a pint of water, and my Mam turns around to me and says "I'm worried about you...surely eating all that can't be good for you?"........

I'm not joking...

I didn't reply.

I coudn't!

[nickatnoon61]

RIGHT ON!

My family's diet consists of microwave food, take aways, milk, dairy and fizzy drinks and it reflects on their being. Lots of depression with them, and they DON'T KNOW WHY!

BIIIIIIIG fucking Elephant in my living room and no-one seems to complain.

Well, he's sitting in front of the tele where I used to sit, so I can't complain..

Actually, nickatnoon61, this'll give you a laugh....I was in the kitchen making a cracker of a salad for myself (I make 'em good and varied :)) with a pint of water, and my Mam turns around to me and says "I'm worried about you...surely eating all that can't be good for you?"........

I'm not joking...

I didn't reply.

I coudn't!

YEAH, Soggy,I KNOW!!! Me mum used to call me Shirley too!!!! :eek:ha ha ha :D Seriously, right now with my garden producing, I am in vegan heaven!!!The tomatoes are so sweeeeet!!!! :) I make my own salad dressing, with a base of olive oil and ACVinegar, spices, (Spike)Himalayan Crystal Salt, a natural sweetener(stevia) and sometimes an avocado blended in!!! ACV and olive oil are good for the liver, and not bad for the lover either!!!!:eek: :)

[soglad]

YEAH, Soggy,I KNOW!!! Me mum used to call me Shirley too!!!! :eek:ha ha ha :D Seriously, right now with my garden producing, I am in vegan heaven!!!The tomatoes are so sweeeeet!!!! :) I make my own salad dressing, with a base of olive oil and ACVinegar, spices, (Spike)Himalayan Crystal Salt, a natural sweetener(stevia) and sometimes an avocado blended in!!! ACV and olive oil are good for the liver, and not bad for the lover either!!!!:eek: :)

No way! I'm so jealous! :o:o

[kblood]

My parents got a nice garden with tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries, cherries... the works :) So every summer I am looking forward to go out in their garden and munch all I can, before they take it all and freeze it for jar or wine making :P I like it best when it comes straight from the bush :)

I cannot deny it is best for the health to eat lots of vegetables and fruits, and only small part meat, with the least additives possible. Still, I simply accept that I cannot excpect to do it all the time. That is why I try to eat a bit of everything instead. I read about a teacher (probably on this forum as well ;) ) Who tried to eat his way through the food chain. So he ate all sorts of exotic animals. If he found something he had not tried to eat before, he would rectify that asap :D Probably not the way to go, but quite funny to think about.

[nickatnoon61]

My parents got a nice garden with tomatoes, cucumbers, strawberries, cherries... the works :) So every summer I am looking forward to go out in their garden and munch all I can, before they take it all and freeze it for jar or wine making :P I like it best when it comes straight from the bush :)

I cannot deny it is best for the health to eat lots of vegetables and fruits, and only small part meat, with the least additives possible. Still, I simply accept that I cannot excpect to do it all the time. That is why I try to eat a bit of everything instead. I read about a teacher (probably on this forum as well ;) ) Who tried to eat his way through the food chain. So he ate all sorts of exotic animals. If he found something he had not tried to eat before, he would rectify that asap :D Probably not the way to go, but quite funny to think about.

Thanx kblood, this drone teacher sounds like it will be eaten by a Reptilian!!(if there is any justice) All meat is dead food, unless you eat it raw of course. eat living food and live. eat dead food and die. It's no too complicated!When you eat food that is of a high vibration, it raises your vibration! If you want to remain in this lower vibration, then keep supporting the slaughterhouses!The Reptilians want to keep us in this lower vibration where we are CONTROLLED! The only escape is to ascend/rise above them!

[nickatnoon61]

lol Casein isn't "a glue," it's just a protein. Athletes use it as a supplement to enhance muscle growth all the time. Fiber actually does turn into a gluey or pasty substance inside you, and that helps eliminate toxins and excessive cholesterol. Shall we stop recommending fruits and vegetables due it's fiber? Of course not.

I consider dairy a 'new food,' just like grains/seeds/grasses. Our original food, IMHO, was fruit/nuts and some vegetation. But, our switch from a herbivorous to a omnivorous diet was a major factor in our evolution, IMHO.

I have dairy regularly (but cycle on and off, it very insulinogenic) because I'm active but omit it, along with other foods during cleansing periods. If you don't have dairy, you can still have your fats by way of almond milk! If you make it yourself you can add all kinds of extras like vanilla and honey or whatever... it's so good.
But, our switch from a herbivorous to a omnivorous diet was a major factor in our evolution, IMHO. megafish, you mean devolution don't you, as the populace is so fooking healthy isn't it????

[chris]

Thanx kblood, this drone teacher sounds like it will be eaten by a Reptilian!!(if there is any justice) All meat is dead food, unless you eat it raw of course. eat living food and live. eat dead food and die. It's no too complicated!When you eat food that is of a high vibration, it raises your vibration! If you want to remain in this lower vibration, then keep supporting the slaughterhouses!The Reptilians want to keep us in this lower vibration where we are CONTROLLED! The only escape is to ascend/rise above them!

Nick man, it's great to have someone on the same wavelength as I am. If people want to eat meat then they should get it wild and drink the raw bone marrow as well (as thats how animals get their nutrition).

I on the other hand take a stroll in the park and pick a few apples. I drink kombucha tea and other herbal teas and I love fruit and mellon. I'm closer to a fruity than a vegan but I do cross over much.

But still what you say there are always people who just want to be lied to and just believe the milk and dairy funded research over independant research (which mostly correlates) because it is far more convenient for their addiction.

[nickatnoon61]

Nick man, it's great to have someone on the same wavelength as I am. If people want to eat meat then they should get it wild and drink the raw bone marrow as well (as thats how animals get their nutrition).

I on the other hand take a stroll in the park and pick a few apples. I drink kombucha tea and other herbal teas and I love fruit and mellon. I'm closer to a fruity than a vegan but I do cross over much.

But still what you say there are always people who just want to be lied to and just believe the milk and dairy funded research over independant research (which mostly correlates) because it is far more convenient for their addiction.


chris said:"I'm closer to a fruity than a vegan but I do cross over much."

nick said:I hope you mean that in a non-gay way!:eek: I "crossed over" once and my bum was sore for a week after!!!!:eek::D

[chris]

chris said:"I'm closer to a fruity than a vegan but I do cross over much."

nick said:I hope you mean that in a non-gay way!:eek: I "crossed over" once and my bum was sore for a week after!!!!:eek::D

IANGW obviously, although I have crossed over with John Edwards before (iangw) but seriously, he filled me with some serious spirit (iangw).

[nickatnoon61]

IANGW obviously, although I have crossed over with John Edwards before (iangw) but seriously, he filled me with some serious spirit (iangw).

You have "leading" way with words,Chris!!:eek:!ha ha

[smariot]

When I first decided to stop eating meat and dairy, my mother said I wasn't going to get any protein or calcium, and that I was going to kill myself. It's been almost two years though, and as far as I can tell, I'm still alive.

We went to a Chinese restaurant and explained that I was vegan. I couldn't figure out what I should get, and she suggested I get some egg rolls. Of course the waiter said they had meat, and I said pointed out that egg rolls contain eggs (duh), and, eh, she wasn't happy with me. So she was getting impatient and annoyed so I asked for some rice with some vegetables. But it seems that the cook somehow managed to infer fried egg out of rice and vegetables, so I didn't eat it. My mom was really annoyed, and begged me to just eat it, and I refused, so she started crying. Apparently I'm a huge embarrassment to her. So I tried to explain that they weren't going to care if I didn't eat it as long as they got paid, we could just take the food home for my bother, and that her entire embarrassing situation only existed in her own mind and that nobody else had any idea what the heck was going on, but that didn't go over well. In the end, she decided she was never going to go anywhere with me ever again.

So let this be a lesson to you all, not eating meat/eggs/cheese can have a negative effect on your relationship with your mother.

[megafish33]

But, our switch from a herbivorous to a omnivorous diet was a major factor in our evolution, IMHO. megafish, you mean devolution don't you, as the populace is so fooking healthy isn't it????

No, I didn't mean devolution. Our increase in brain size correlated with our increased hunger for protein.

Eating meat is only a factor in our being unfookingly healthy. Animal husbandry as changed considerably in the last century alone, and so have the nutrients we absorb from animal foods. With that said, I don't think anyone will die from being vegan or vegetarian. You can get your amino acids from plant foods. There are athletes that perform well on not much more than fruit! Of course, listen to your body (within reason of course, detoxification from unfookingly healthy stuff won't feel nice and magical at first but that doesn't mean you should stop at once!) and if it tells you to add a bit of butter, do so, but find the highest quality source you can afford. If it tells you to eat fish, add some. Here though, is where I'd like to mention that many times you think you're craving protein, since that's what you've been lead to believe, when you're actually craving fat. This can easily be provided by a plant based diet. Think avocados, coconuts, olives and you'll get the picture. Many nuts are also full of fats and contain high amounts of protein too.

[h1s_l0rdsh1p]

Incase anybody wants to know, Rice Milk isn't that bad. It tastes abit like milk aswell.

[cheesedanish]

My daughter's nose starts running instantly when she drinks a
milkshake - so I encourage her to drink fruit juice instead!
When she was a baby the 'Casein' formula gave her stuffy
nose and I switched to the Soya formula and it was cleared.

I also tried Goat's milk at one time and she came out in a rash!

Man you can't believe the rubbish that kids eat today - I went
to a resort on the weekend and notice more and more kids
are Overweight! They live on Crisps & Coke & hot dogs - it's
terrible!

[chris]

My daughter's nose starts running instantly when she drinks a
milkshake - so I encourage her to drink fruit juice instead!
When she was a baby the 'Casein' formula gave her stuffy
nose and I switched to the Soya formula and it was cleared.

I also tried Goat's milk at one time and she came out in a rash!

Man you can't believe the rubbish that kids eat today - I went
to a resort on the weekend and notice more and more kids
are Overweight! They live on Crisps & Coke & hot dogs - it's
terrible!

Yeah it's absolutely crazy. My parents would eat some junk food like once a week but every other day the food was only a little bit bad. Nowadays people are eating junk food 7 days a week. At this rate our life expectancy won't go past 40 for people already in their twenties.

[awakensong]

I'm very much enjoying the posts on this thread. I, too, am endeavoring to become more and more fruitarian, and a few months ago came across Natural Hygiene. Does anyone else know about this, and if so, what do you think?

I've also learned from all my studying on this, that NH claims there is one cause for disease (toxicosis) and one remedy (fasting), then a return to the original natural diet of man. However, fasting is not to be taken upon by anyone inexperienced with this; it must be supervised and monitored.

A few sources online are:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/present.html
DEFINITION: "Hygiene is properly defined as that branch of biology which designates the conditions upon which health depends and the means by which it may be sustained in all its virtue and purity while we have it, and the means upon which its restoration rests when we have lost it. --- It is the scientific application of the principles of nature in the preservation and restoration of health." "Hygienic means health preserving. Practically, it implies the observance of the laws of life." H. Shelton, 1968, ch.10


http://www.living-foods.com/articles/naturalhygiene.html
http://www.anhs.org/
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/nat-hyg/index.shtml
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com

This one has modified it a bit:
http://drbass.com/cursio.html

My favorite book on the subject is: "Man's Pristine Way of Life" by Dr. Herbert Shelton.

I also like the Arnold Ehret books on Fruitarianism.

I have found many testimonials for Fruitarianism, Veganism, Raw Foodism, Natural Hygienism, both pro and con. I have come to the conclusion that it might be best to follow the basic fruitarian diet until such time as the body may tell you it is becoming deficient, then add the modifications from Dr. Bass' site until the body tells you it is becoming toxic, and so alternate back and forth between the two for the best balance of nourishment and cleansing.

[awakensong]

No, I didn't mean devolution. Our increase in brain size correlated with our increased hunger for protein.

Hi Megafish,

This may seem true to those who believe in macro-evolution. I personally don't believe in the paleolitic diet of meat and dairy because I don't believe we evolved from apes or chimps, etc.

I personally took "Soup Nazi's" (gotta love someone using this name in their sig!) comment on "devolving" to mean we began going backwards in our spiritual enlightenment at the point at which we began to eat meat.

[nickatnoon61]

I'm very much enjoying the posts on this thread. I, too, am endeavoring to become more and more fruitarian, and a few months ago came across Natural Hygiene. Does anyone else know about this, and if so, what do you think?

I've also learned from all my studying on this, that NH claims there is one cause for disease (toxicosis) and one remedy (fasting), then a return to the original natural diet of man. However, fasting is not to be taken upon by anyone inexperienced with this; it must be supervised and monitored.

A few sources online are:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/present.html
DEFINITION: "Hygiene is properly defined as that branch of biology which designates the conditions upon which health depends and the means by which it may be sustained in all its virtue and purity while we have it, and the means upon which its restoration rests when we have lost it. --- It is the scientific application of the principles of nature in the preservation and restoration of health." "Hygienic means health preserving. Practically, it implies the observance of the laws of life." H. Shelton, 1968, ch.10


http://www.living-foods.com/articles/naturalhygiene.html
http://www.anhs.org/
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/nat-hyg/index.shtml
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com

This one has modified it a bit:
http://drbass.com/cursio.html

My favorite book on the subject is: "Man's Pristine Way of Life" by Dr. Herbert Shelton.

I also like the Arnold Ehret books on Fruitarianism.

I have found many testimonials for Fruitarianism, Veganism, Raw Foodism, Natural Hygienism, both pro and con. I have come to the conclusion that it might be best to follow the basic fruitarian diet until such time as the body may tell you it is becoming deficient, then add the modifications from Dr. Bass' site until the body tells you it is becoming toxic, and so alternate back and forth between the two for the best balance of nourishment and cleansing.AWS, try the "gorilla diet" of raw foods and greens. It is the only way to unlimited health! There is no magic pill...only a magic process. The power of mind is incredible. If you truly know in your mind that you can accomplish a goal, you can do it; if you think you can't build strength and muscle, then you can't. http://www.living-foods.com/articles/bodybuilder.html

[awakensong]

NAN, I've been told these diets are for the very healthy and robust, and those who are very active. What do you think? And the 80/10/10 Diet?

I'm not too sure about a gorilla diet - don't they eat bugs and meat as well as fruit and greens?

[nickatnoon61]

NAN, I've been told these diets are for the very healthy and robust, and those who are very active. What do you think? And the 80/10/10 Diet?

They are for everyone, who wants to be truly healthy, and strong. It is the way humans are supposed to eat! I have done it, and I am going back to it again, as I have slipped back to the bad habits(cooked food) and I have put on weight as a result! The body treats all cooked food as toxic, and creates fat to store the toxins in. That is why just about everyone is overweight!

[nickatnoon61]

No, I didn't mean devolution. Our increase in brain size correlated with our increased hunger for protein.

Eating meat is only a factor in our being unfookingly healthy. Animal husbandry as changed considerably in the last century alone, and so have the nutrients we absorb from animal foods. With that said, I don't think anyone will die from being vegan or vegetarian. You can get your amino acids from plant foods. There are athletes that perform well on not much more than fruit! Of course, listen to your body (within reason of course, detoxification from unfookingly healthy stuff won't feel nice and magical at first but that doesn't mean you should stop at once!) and if it tells you to add a bit of butter, do so, but find the highest quality source you can afford. If it tells you to eat fish, add some. Here though, is where I'd like to mention that many times you think you're craving protein, since that's what you've been lead to believe, when you're actually craving fat. This can easily be provided by a plant based diet. Think avocados, coconuts, olives and you'll get the picture. Many nuts are also full of fats and contain high amounts of protein too.
I have been vegetarian for over 25 years,and vegan, about 8 mos. and I KNOW what works for me! I believe in what you say about listening to your body for what it needs! The body has it's own intelligence and knows what it needs to stay at optimum performance.
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=19&db=3&C0=17

[awakensong]

They are for everyone, who wants to be truly healthy, and strong. It is the way humans are supposed to eat! I have done it, and I am going back to it again, as I have slipped back to the bad habits(cooked food) and I have put on weight as a result! The body treats all cooked food as toxic, and creates fat to store the toxins in. That is why just about everyone is overweight!

I had some email conversations with the author of Raw Food Explained (http://www.rawfoodexplained.com) and they said persons with chronic illness are supposed to eat differently. This did not coincide, however, with the other Natural Hygiene information, which said what would not be good for a healthy person certainly would never be good for a sick person.

However, this web author said sick persons should eat a lot of raw meat, eggs and milk, which all the other books said not to do. I do not think it is right, either. I do not think we are or ever were animals that we should eat other animals; how far is that from acting like animals and becoming canibals? It's also very interesting that canibal tribes became very prevalent in contracting insanity; i.e., "Mad Cow Disease/ CJD", which is said to be how today's "Farmageddon" animals are contracting it.

[megafish33]

I have been vegetarian for over 25 years,and vegan, about 8 mos. and I KNOW what works for me! I believe in what you say about listening to your body for what it needs! The body has it's own intelligence and knows what it needs to stay at optimum performance.
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=19&db=3&C0=17


Good for you! If it's not broke, don't fix it I guess. What works, works. It seems that many people have a hard time with raw and vegan, but those that stick with it can't stop talking about how good it is how they love it!

One thing that drew me closer to plant foods was actually growing them. I grow organic tomatoes (along with a few other crops) for myself in the backyard, along with other things. I use them to make all kinds of dishes, some raw, like chilled soup. Feels good when grow the stuff... :cool:

[chris]

AWS, try the "gorilla diet" of raw foods and greens. It is the only way to unlimited health! There is no magic pill...only a magic process. The power of mind is incredible. If you truly know in your mind that you can accomplish a goal, you can do it; if you think you can't build strength and muscle, then you can't. http://www.living-foods.com/articles/bodybuilder.html

Cool, I'm gonna buy that book.

I've been saying it for a long time that you get so much stronger from raw vegan diet but I've always been a bit pissed that people are simply trying to prove to people that it's safe and healthy when they really should be saying it's for performance, power, agility, stamina and brain power.

[chris]

Cool, I'm gonna buy that book.

I've been saying it for a long time that you get so much stronger from raw vegan diet but I've always been a bit pissed that people are simply trying to prove to people that it's safe and healthy when they really should be saying it's for performance, power, agility, stamina and brain power.

Second thoughts, it costs over £30 (out of print), very short and has many bad reviews.

[nickatnoon61]

Good for you! If it's not broke, don't fix it I guess. What works, works. It seems that many people have a hard time with raw and vegan, but those that stick with it can't stop talking about how good it is how they love it!

One thing that drew me closer to plant foods was actually growing them. I grow organic tomatoes (along with a few other crops) for myself in the backyard, along with other things. I use them to make all kinds of dishes, some raw, like chilled soup. Feels good when grow the stuff... :cool:

yep, me too! I have about 30-40 tomato plants, and a lot of different varieties. Also ,cukes,onions,peppers,zucchini,squash,etc.It is not easy to stick to raw at first.I find substituting one food for a raw one, is easier for me. Food is just another of the many addictions we seem to have. I have a raw food restaurant only 3 blocks from my house and it is DELISH!!!

[nickatnoon61]

Hi Megafish,

This may seem true to those who believe in macro-evolution. I personally don't believe in the paleolitic diet of meat and dairy because I don't believe we evolved from apes or chimps, etc.

I personally took "Soup Nazi's" (gotta love someone using this name in their sig!) comment on "devolving" to mean we began going backwards in our spiritual enlightenment at the point at which we began to eat meat.

THATS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT,AWSONG!!!! THANX, YOU GOT SOME SOUP COMIN'!!!! ;):cool:

[nickatnoon61]

I had some email conversations with the author of Raw Food Explained (http://www.rawfoodexplained.com) and they said persons with chronic illness are supposed to eat differently. This did not coincide, however, with the other Natural Hygiene information, which said what would not be good for a healthy person certainly would never be good for a sick person.

However, this web author said sick persons should eat a lot of raw meat, eggs and milk, which all the other books said not to do. I do not think it is right, either. I do not think we are or ever were animals that we should eat other animals; how far is that from acting like animals and becoming canibals? It's also very interesting that canibal tribes became very prevalent in contracting insanity; i.e., "Mad Cow Disease/ CJD", which is said to be how today's "Farmageddon" animals are contracting it.

AWS, read this from Gabriel Cousens interview. I have been saying this for years,about the mental state as it relates to a diet of meat, and most people think I am crazy!!!!

Mike: Along that line, you've had thousands of people come here to the Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center. Do you have any statistics or anecdotal evidence about the number of people who were able to so safely get off those prescription drugs because those symptoms had vanished? Is that an area you're comfortable discussing?

Cousens: Well, if I said 100 percent ...

Mike: People wouldn't believe 100 percent.

Cousens: Now, I wrote a book called Depression Free for Life, and my result with natural healing and off medication is 90 percent, and that's for the treatment of depression and manic depression. Manic depression, maybe 80 percent, but 90 percent for depression and that includes psychotic depression. That's the place where I have an opinion, but the rest of the time – basically, let's say, unless a person is really taking some medication that it's very, very dangerous to take them off of – I'm going to get them off most of the medication because they're naturally going to get healthy. The medication is making them unhealthy, so why keep them on that? So, let's say a 90-percent success rate with depression.

Mike: What's required on the patient's part? What level of commitment to...

Cousens: Well, they have to live it. Depression Free for Life means you have to do the five-step program. You have to build up your nutrient minerals with amino acids, specific amino acid supplements. You have to have the proper vitamins and minerals to make your brain work right. You have to have the proper lipids, again, to make your brain work right, for brain function. You have to balance your pH because your brain won't function if you're too alkaline or too acid. Then, you live the lifestyle. We put all those together, and that's live foods and fasting; fasting clears the brain. There was research done in Russia with schizophrenics, incurable schizophrenics, and they water fasted them. I don't do a lot of water fasting here, but they water fasted them for 28 days, and in Russia they don't have supplements.

Mike: You do juice fasting here, so people know.

Cousens: Yes, and what happened was that 65 percent of the incurable schizophrenics started functioning normally. The only time they relapsed was when they ate meat. That's because they have five times more 6-hydroxy-skatole, which is a toxin they could metabolize in the meat, and then it creates dysfunction in the brain.

Mike: And that's in all red meat?

Cousens: All meat. So, for example, take schizophrenia; it's very difficult to treat, and you get a 65 percent cure rate with fasting. Now, another example of that: I had a lady from Mexico in her mid-20s, who had been at a hospital for five years for depression, suicide and so forth. She came out here kind of to get a break out of the hospital. She could barely walk, she was 80 pounds overweight, and she was so toxic with everything. She was on medication, so over a period of few weeks, we started her on a fast. She was just too toxic to do anything; she couldn't do anything. After two weeks, her mind began to clear, and she ended up fasting for 85 days. In that time, she lost all her weight. She became this very beautiful young lady because she was in her 20s. She required no medications, she had happiness for the first time in her life, and she has never had a relapse.

Mike: She stayed on the live foods diet?

Cousens: Yes, the best I know; she's back in Mexico. But what's the point? The point is: The food we eat affects how we think, and how we function physically. So if you're eating junk food, you're going to get a junk-food brain. In her case, she was more sensitive to it, so these were things to put her back on track. You know, not everyone fasts for 85 days, but this is a special case, and it was very significant.

Here is the whole interview....http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html

[megafish33]

Hi Megafish,

This may seem true to those who believe in macro-evolution. I personally don't believe in the paleolitic diet of meat and dairy because I don't believe we evolved from apes or chimps, etc.

I personally took "Soup Nazi's" (gotta love someone using this name in their sig!) comment on "devolving" to mean we began going backwards in our spiritual enlightenment at the point at which we began to eat meat.

Right. I posted my thoughts in the evolution=religion thread so I might as well here too... I don't believe in "micro" or "macro" evolution, just evolution. What many consider to be "micro-evolution" is just, evolution. Macro changes are just micro changes... except they happen over a looooooooooooooooong period of time.

I can see why you hold your position though! It's not the meat and dairy our populations need to eat more, it's the vegetables, fruits, nuts, and seeds! What scares me is this low carb fad... although my usual diet can be defined as "low carb" according to some authorities. I don't believe-and this is were many Registered Dietitians will disagree with me-you need almost ANY carbohydrate sources in your diet (certain diets/exercise plans can change that though). If you train your body to run on its most efficient fuel source, fat, it will derive glucose from there. This is how an efficient body will run. Nowadays most bodies run inefficiently, they take the glucose, which is usually in excess, and turn it in to saturated fat. Brilliant from an evolutionary perspective, that's was critical for our survival. But now, if you live in a wealthy nation and have access to too much food, it's probably killing you.

Now, the thing is, few few carbohydrate sources will actually give you more excess energy than you need. People on this "low carb" crap are fiber and phytonutrient deficient! Even now, more scientists than ever are saying that a considerable amount (not all of course) of cancer cases are caused by "fruit and vegetable deficiencies." Imagine that huh! I also think low fat is ridiculous for probably 70-80% of the people on those diets. When I have weeks that are raw and vegan I always balance my carbohydrate rich fruit and vegetable sources with fat fruits (like avocados) and greens.

wooooooooooow that was so OT lol

[kashmir_z]

but i like chocolate milk :(

[kashmirz]

i also like loging in with the correct account :D

[i am all i am]

I LOVE YOU.

G'day everyone.

For those of you in denial about the milk issue discussed here on this thread, here is a site that you can have a look at to have an informed opinion about this issue.....
http://www.notmilk.com/

For those of you that have decided not to polute your physicallity with milk, well done. I was brought up to believe that milk was good for your bones and all of the other bullshit (or should I say cowshit?) propaganda that is pushed upon us. I used to drink a lot of milk because I mistakenly believed what I was told about it being good for your bones and drank it because I had a bone condition as a young child. It isn't good for your bones, milk actually leaches calcium from your body, but hey, don't believe me, do some research into it and find out for yourself.

If you understand that humans are the only species on the planet that consume milk as adults, well, you can see that we are not living very naturally or harmoniously. Maybe it is simply a fact that although some people appear to be adults, they are unable to face any information that goes against what they have been indoctrinated to believe in. It's up to the individual though to do their own research and make their own choices, so whatever you decide to do, it's your choice.

Here's one article from the numerous amounts of articles on the NOTMILK site...

THE SCOOP ON THE POOP

That five-week period between Thanksgiving and New Year's
Day is the best time for you to invest your dollars in the
Charmin Toilet Paper Company.

This is the time of year when most holiday parties and
family functions feature nogs, cheesecakes, ice creams, milk
chocolates, and dairy products galore. What goes in must
come out. It's the simplest of the Newtonian laws of
physics: For every eating action, there is an equal and
powerful digestive reaction. The results are often not very
pretty. Eat dairy, get sludge.

YOUR BOWEL MOVEMENTS

Discussing bowel movements can be rather unpleasant.

Doctors rarely ask you this critically important question.
Hippocrates taught that the state and form of your bowel
movements are the most revealing clues to the nature of your
physiology. That should be the primary question out of the
mouths of physicians and healers during their examinations.

Most cats and every dog I've seen have great bowel
movements. They don't need toilet paper. I've witnessed
horses and elephants, barnyard animals, little mammals and
large mammals all doing their duty, and they all have the
same thing in common. They defecate quickly, and their
"droppings" are firm.

Why are most humans the exception to this regular rule? Why
do cows and buffaloes make "chips," and humans make sludge?

Did you ever consider the consistency of the yellowish goop
inside of a jar of Cheeze Whiz? Could that be the same
consistency of the digested food leaving your body?

Constipation or diarrhea? Internal sludge or internal
blockage? In order to find the cure, one must first
determine the cause.

When you have an unknown disease, physicians often take
samples of your body wastes, run tests, diagnose, then
medicate. Isn't there an easier way for you to experience
"normal" bowel movements? You're damned right, there is!

Eighty percent of milk protein is casein, the mucous
producer. Casein from cow's milk is a foreign protein. When
you eat this antigen, your body's immune system manufactures
an antibody. The antibody is a histamine. As a result of
histamine production, many people open their medicine
cabinets or rush to their pharmacies in search of
antihistamines.

Sprinkle Parmesan cheese on your pasta and ten hours later,
you'll have produced enough mucous to fill the empty quart
container of Ben & Jerry's Nitty Gritty. Most Americans
continuously eat one form or another of dairy products. The
average American eats the equivalent of 29.2 ounces per day
from this food group. For them, bad bowel movements are a
way of life. They have never known what it is like to be
regular. They never will if they continue eating dairy.

The cure is so simple. One week completely off dairy, and
you'll be as regular as Fido. Is it not worth the
experiment?

Give this embarrassing newsletter to a friend or relative.
Dare them to take the NOTMILK challenge for just seven days.
If you truly love them and wish for them to have a
meaningful learning experience, treat them to pizza on day
eight. On day nine, they'll return to the messy sludge, and
experience that which most Americans deny:

Milk does not do the body good.

What I am about to suggest may have animal rights activists
protesting at my door. Feed Fido two slices of pizza for his
next meal. That gooey mozzarella should do amazing things to
his regularity.

WARNING: For the next few walks, leave behind the pooper-
scooper and bring along a spatula with you. Oh yes, bring
along Charmin too. Your dog will be smart enough to make the
connection. Will you?


THANK YOU.



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[megafish33]

i also like loging in with the correct account :D

Raw almond milk, raw honey, raw ground cocoa.... ;)

[i am all i am]

Raw almond milk, raw honey, raw ground cocoa.... ;)

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Megafish33.

Almond milk is a great alternative. Rice milk and oat milk are also great alternatives. I'm off to make a cocoa now with rice milk.

THANK YOU.



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[abrilliantone]

I mean damn:eek: is their anything out there that's safe for us? Truthfully the illuminati been poisoning us forever. They've been lying to us saying this or that is good for you. But all along this crap been slowly killing us. We must hurry and stop this mess.

[chris]

I mean damn:eek: is their anything out there that's safe for us? Truthfully the illuminati been poisoning us forever. They've been lying to us saying this or that is good for you. But all along this crap been slowly killing us. We must hurry and stop this mess.

I thought that at first but after a lot of reading I started to realise that there is an abundance of really great tasting healthy food.

[chattanova]

'Devil' in milk risk to health, scientist claims

A mass of scientific evidence linking milk to heart disease, type-1 diabetes, autism, schizophrenia and other illnesses has been assembled by a Lincoln University professor in a move that will send shockwaves through the dairy industry.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4199822a10.html


What the 'milk devil' could do

The "milk devil" identified by Lincoln University professor Keith Woodford is beta-casomomorphin7, a derivative of A1 beta-casein, a gene found in cows' milk.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4199815a20475.html

[adzboarder]

Just to chuck in my 2 pence worth, all this does drive me mad.

I recently switched to Veggie to match my wife (she's been veggie for 18 out of 30 years) and my 2 year old son is also a veggie so now Dads ditching meat, it's a lot easy to cook for us all.I love the veggie recipes anyway, PLEASE don't tell me that veggie mince is bad for me as I am gonna scream.

We eat good wholesome stuff with a varied diet and we all seem to be quite healthy for the most part.

This stuff about milk annoys me because if it is bad for you and lets face it, what isn't these days then it's sick to hear it from NHS and health officials to ram it down our childrens throat. A pint a day they recommed for little kids and if it's not great for them it should be less, surely?

What also pisses me off is that they say give the children fruit juice which we also do but then we worry about the citric effect on their teeth, y'know - what the fuck are we supposed to eat and drink !!?!

I've also cut alcohol out of my diet for about 5 months now, previously being an occassional drinker and I feel great for it. That's one poison none of us need. I'm not dropping the weed out my diet though, i don't give a fuck what the doctors and professors say, this stuff is an essential ingredient for an open mind and complements my healthy body perfectly.

What are your thoughts on teas? I'm a big fan of Whittards Pear and Guava and you don't need poisoned milk for that!

A good alternative for tea with milk.

[adzboarder]

yep, me too! I have about 30-40 tomato plants, and a lot of different varieties. Also ,cukes,onions,peppers,zucchini,squash,etc.


Zucchini is that courgettes?

Oddly my neighbour has grown some monster courgettes this year and they were so tasty and filling. Odd that stuff you grow in your garden is MASSIVE compared to the rushed crap you get in Tescos...

[phoebe]

Nothing is as poisonous to you
As the belief that something is poisonous to you.

[i am all i am]

I LOVE YOU.


HOW MUCH PUS IS IN MILK?

Dear Friends,

Pus is not dangerous. Pus is rather delicious, especially when it's mixed with sugar and frozen, or bubbly hot atop marinara sauce and pizza. Fermented pus with acidophilus bacteria makes for a tasty breakfast, especially if jellied fruit preserves are mixed in. I used to enjoy Dannon's pus, but Brown Cow makes a brand where the saturated fat rises to the surface. Now, that's 'hearty' food!

Many of my dairy-producing adversaries get upset when I reveal that milk is merely pus with hormones. Ten pounds of milk are used to make one pound of cheese. Cheese is concentrated pus.

Jim Dickrell's story in the March, 2001 issue of Dairy Today asks:

"WHAT IS NORMAL MILK?"

The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) has a milk ordinance governing milk safety. USDA does not allow milk containing 750 million or more pus cells per liter to be shipped across state borders. That should be good news to milk drinkers.

Last year, the average liter of milk in America contained only 323 million pus cells, according to Hoard's Dairyman, the dairy industry magazine. Author Jim Dickrell reports that the level of pus cells has been rising ever since farmers began using Monsanto's genetically engineered bovine growth hormone. Before approval (February 1994), the average pus cell count in milk was under 300 million cells per liter. By 1996, that average count had reached 307 million. In 1997, the average count was 313 million, and by 1998, the number had reached 318 million.

Researchers working for the National Mastitis Council define normal and abnormal milk based on the number of pus cells. According to Dickrell's story, the concentration of pus cells in "normal milk" is almost always less than 100 million cells per liter.

The number of pus cells in milk is an indicator of the state of health of the mammary glands and udders in cows. Stressed and infected cows have cell counts above 100 million. What does that say for the average milk in America? Not very healthy, even by dairy industry standards.

According to this article:

"When cell counts in milk exceed 200 (million per liter), the odds favor that the [udder] is infected or is recovering from infection."

The dairy magazine reports:

"Abnormal milk will be discolored and have flakes, clots or other gross alterations in appearance."

Gross is certainly an appropriate word to describe pus-filled milk with clots. This analyses of mastitis researchers reveals:

"At 400 (million) cells per liter, some 35% of cows will be infected."

This means that approximately one-third of the cows being milked at any one time in America are stressed and infected. Milk from these cows contains large amounts of bacteria, virus, and pus. As a consequence, farmers must treat their herds with increased amounts of antibiotics.

Pam Ruegg, a University of Wisconsin mastitis researcher, examined more than one million records, and concluded that the higher the herd's pus cell count, the greater the risk of antibiotic residues in milk.

Her results were published in the December 2000 issue of the Journal of Dairy Science.


THANK YOU.



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[i am all i am]

Nothing is as poisonous to you
As the belief that something is poisonous to you.

I LOVE YOU.

http://www.notmilk.com/graphics/rat.gif

Rat Poison

It's The Law - Rat Poison Must Be Added to Milk

In 1932, Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations required that
400 units of rat poison be added to every quart of milk sold
in America.

I receive over 2,000 letters each day, but one letter (from
Dr. John Unruh Unruh@aol.com), written in jest, contained a
remarkable fact.

"Dear Robert, I do not know how you find this stuff but you
continue to pile on the evidence as to why milk equals rat
poison. Keep up the good work."

Dear Dr. Unruh,

Your "rat-poison" metaphor is quite close to the truth.

A brochure produced by the Ministry of Environment in
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, reveals the rat-posion
link:

"SAFE AND SENSIBLE PEST CONTROL"

The brochure represents a series of "safe and sensible" pest
control measures, according to the Canadian Health Minister.
Canadian health officials believe that Vitamin D-3 is the
most effective and ecologically sound method of dealing with
rat and mouse infestation.

Information on milk cartons reveal that two ingredients fill
the container: Milk and Vitamin D-3. Vitamin D-3 is used to
kill rats! Why is it added to milk for our children to drink
in the name of good health?

According to the Canadian brochure, products containing
Vitamin D-3 (calciferol) kill by vitamin overdose after 3-4
days. The Vitamin D-3 actually mobilizes excessive amounts
of calcium from an animal's bones.

And you thought that Vitamin D-3 in milk helped to absorb
calcium. Another dairy industry myth!

Don't try this at home. When the animal dies within your
walls, its putrefying body will add the most unpleasant
bouquet to your environment. The offensive smell may last
for months.

Many methods of mice and rat control are discussed. I prefer
the most foolproof of methods: Don't let them eat your food.
Store all foods in refrigerators or tamper-proof containers.
With no food supply, mice and rats go elsewhere to dine.

How soon we forget! Children are taught in first grade that
Vitamin D is the "sunshine vitamin." Vitamin D is a steroid
hormone and is synthesized in one's body after skin is
exposed to sunlight. Once the body has made enough, it will
produce no more. Too much Vitamin D can be toxic and result
in bone loss.

In 1963, the journal Pediatrics (Volume 31) revealed:

"Consuming as little as 45 micrograms of Vitamin D-3 in
young children has resulted in signs of overdose." (one
gallon of milk contains 1600 IU, or 40 micrograms).

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine
(Volume 326, 1992) revealed that of 42 milk samples, only
12% were within the expected range of Vitamin D content.
Testing of 10 samples of infant formula revealed seven with
more that twice the Vitamin D content reported on the label,
one of which had more than four times the label amount.

THANK YOU.



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[awakensong]

All this about pus in milk doesn't say much for what a baby calf is being nourished with. What about human milk for human babies?

[chris]

All this about pus in milk doesn't say much for what a baby calf is being nourished with. What about human milk for human babies?

I think the article was refering to battery cows who are full of disease.

[nickatnoon61]

I thought that at first but after a lot of reading I started to realise that there is an abundance of really great tasting healthy food. Yes there is,Chris. We have to start changing the demand for dead/posonous food, and switching to live natural foods. It does take some effort and creativity tho!!

[adimon]

'What the government doesn't want you to know about milk. We know it contains fat and cholesterol, but did you know it contains the protein CASEIN (which is basically a glue which leads to a lot of mucous build up and other health problems like asthma and congestion), milk also contains ... powerful growth hormones, viruses, a host of deadly chemical and biological bacterial agents, bovine proteins that cause allergies, insecticides, antibiotics, all this can trigger the growth of cancer


There are lots of so-called experts in the world who claim many things about food and nutrition. Be very careful about who you believe.

Personally, I eat a lot of dairy and am the fittest, healthiest person I know, because I get LOTS of exercise.

Provided you eat everything in moderation, and get lots of exercise, I don't think you'll suffer any more risk than anyone of cancer or the other baddies.

The whole argument about it not being meant for us is a bit old now I think. It seems almost religious in basis. Who is to say what is meant for us or not?

And to respond to your original point, the government don't try to stop people learning about the contents of milk. There is lots of information on casein and all the other constituents.

[i am all i am]

There are lots of so-called experts in the world who claim many things about food and nutrition. Be very careful about who you believe.

Personally, I eat a lot of dairy and am the fittest, healthiest person I know, because I get LOTS of exercise.

Provided you eat everything in moderation, and get lots of exercise, I don't think you'll suffer any more risk than anyone of cancer or the other baddies.

The whole argument about it not being meant for us is a bit old now I think. It seems almost religious in basis. Who is to say what is meant for us or not?

And to respond to your original point, the government don't try to stop people learning about the contents of milk. There is lots of information on casein and all the other constituents.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Adimon.

"The whole argument".....Well, this is the point exactly. You are here for an argument and merely choose to take an opposing view and use rhetoric in an attempt to incite one.

Of course, the choice to consume dairy is your own to make, and there are known occurences from the consumption of it that you have to look forward to.


A is for ALZHEIMER'S

Swiss Cheese and Alzheimer's

Swiss Cheese: A delicious waxy substance that smells a bit
funny, is filled with holes, and tastes quite delicious,
especially in fondues.

Alzheimer's: That disease of dementia in which neural cells
die, turning human brains into Swiss cheese.

Now revealed: Scientific evidence that Swiss cheese contains
a substance that is positively correlated to Alzheimer's
Disease.

The building blocks of proteins are amino acids. The one
factor making animal protein so unhealthy for human
consumption is the abundance of sulfur-based amino acids
such as methionine and homocysteine.

Homocysteine has been linked to heart disease by William
Castelli, senior investigator of the largest clinical heart
study in history, the Framingham Study.

The key to understanding heart disease is recognizing the
destruction caused by that rotten egg smell of sulfur
infusing throughout one's cardiovascular system. See:

http://www.notmilk.com/h.html

Osteoporosis occurs as a result of the body's attempt to
neutralize the acid condition caused by the consumption of
foods rich in sulfur. Internal "thermostats" neutralize that
acid by drawing calcium from one's own bones. See:

http://www.notmilk.com/o.html

The February 14, 2002 issue of the New England Journal of
Medicine (Volume 346:476-483, Number 7) contains a study
proving that the risk of Alzheimer's Disease doubles for
those people with the highest levels of homocysteine in
their bloodstreams.

Neurologists at the Boston University School of Medicine
obtained blood samples from 1092 elderly healthy subjects
over an eight-year period. During the course of the study,
111 of those subjects developed dementia, diagnosed as
Alzheimer's Disease.

Those who developed Alzheimer's had enormous increases of
homocysteine in their blood when compared to those who did
not develop dementia.

There are 28 amino acids in nature. Your body's liver
manufactures 19 of them. The other 9 are called "essential,"
which means that they must be obtained in the foods you eat.
Methionine is one such "essential" amino acid. After
ingestion, methionine converts to homocysteine.

Animal proteins contain greater amounts of methionine than
do plant proteins. Milk is liquid meat, and dairy products
contain high levels of methionine, which has sulfur as its
center atom. The sulfur converts to sulfates and causes an
acid condition in the blood that results in cellular
destruction.

Here are some values of methionine for 100 gram portions of
various foods. You will find that a result of consuming
dairy products and/or eating meat creates a methionine-rich
and subsequent homocysteine-rich environment of Alzheimer-
causing substances in human blood serum.

MILK COMPARISON

Cow's milk = .083 grams of methionine
Soy milk = .040 grams

SOLID FOOD COMPARISON

Mori-Nu silken soft tofu = .074 grams
Chicken (broiled breast meat, no skin) = .859 grams
Swiss cheese = .784 grams
Parmesan cheese = .958 grams

Cow's milk contains twice as much methionine as does soy
milk. Chicken has nearly 12 times the amount of methionine
as does tofu, and Parmesan cheese has an unlucky 13 times
more methionine than does tofu.

The neurologists who conducted this study did not consider
how or why people have high levels of methionine. Pity. They
were close to determining the cause and cure of Alzheimer's.

These neurologists who published the study in the New
England Journal of Medicine suggest that folic acid reduces
levels of homocysteine. Folic acid can be found in green
leafy vegetables, grains, and fruits, particularly citrus.
However, the best cure may very well be to not eat what
causes the problem.

Scientific research has provided the proof that Alzheimer's
Disease can be controlled or prevented by eliminating the
standard American diet that includes milk and dairy products
as its foundation.


THANK YOU.



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[adimon]

The whole argument".....Well, this is the point exactly. You are here for an argument and merely choose to take an opposing view and use rhetoric in an attempt to incite one.


LOL

Ok, please listen to me...I am entitled to my opinions, and entitled to post them on this forum. I am not automatically taking the opposing view - look through some of my other posts and you will confirm that I have agreed with some of what is written.

Studies you have read my indicate to you that dairy is bad. Not eating it is your choice, as is mine to eat it, and defend it.

I'm not here for an argument but maybe you want to chase me away?

Not going to happen.

The original point made was that the government hide information on casein when they don't. I made my own point about how (if at all) we're able to fathom what we are meant to eat/do, etc..

[auron]

I'm never touching milk of cheese ever again after reading this thread! :eek:

[i am all i am]

I'm never touching milk of cheese ever again after reading this thread! :eek:

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Auron.

Not Milk is a great site for resource material about all of this.....

http://www.notmilk.com/

Here is a great link for some first-hand information.....

http://www.madcowboy.com/

"As a fourth-generation family farmer in Montana for almost 40 years, I speak from a background of personal experience when I say that chemically based agricultural production methods today are unsustainable, and therefore ecologically disastrous. My experiences range from working in a large organic dairy to raising registered beef cattle to owning a large factory feedlot. I have farmed thousands of acres of grain and reproduced a herd of over one thousand commercial beef cows. In addition to raising cows, I have raised chickens, pigs, and turkeys. I have also grown crops such as wheat, barley, oats, corn, alfalfa, and grass.

I was involved in agriculture at a time when the call dictated getting bigger and better or getting out. I was educated in modern agriculture, and I can tell you from firsthand experience -- it is not sustainable. I followed all the modern advice and turned a small organic family farm into a large corporate chemical farm with a thousand range cows, five thousand head of cattle in a factory feedlot, thousands of acres of crops, and as many as thirty employees. I saw the organic soil go from a living, productive base to a sterile, chemical-saturated, mono-cultural ground produced by my so-called modern methods.

In 1979, a tumor on my spinal cord caused me to be paralyzed from the waist down. That changed my life forever. I promised myself that, whatever the outcome of the surgery, I would dedicate the rest of my life to doing what I believed to be right -- no matter what changes that necessitated.

The period before and after the surgery gave me much time to think about the changes resulting form my methods of farming. Convinced that we were going the wrong way, I decided to become a voice for the family farmer and the land. In 1983, I sold most of my farm and started working for farmers in financial trouble. This led to my working for the Montana Farmers Union and from there to Washington, D.C. as a lobbyist for the National Farmers Union.

For five years I worked on Capitol Hill for America's family farmers. In that time we had some small successes, such as passing the National Organic Standards Act. But even after the act became a law, it took the administration several years to allow funds for its implementation. I became convinced that the changes needed had to come from the producer and the consumers at the grassroots level. Until that alliance is put into play, the big money interest will continue to control public policy in the Congress of the United States."

"The question we must ask ourselves as a culture is whether we want to embrace the change that must come, or resist it. Are we so attached to the dietary fallacies with which we were raised, so afraid to counter the arbitrary laws of eating taught to us in childhood by our misinformed parents, that we cannot alter the course they set us on, even if it leads to our own ruin? Does the prospect of standing apart or encounttering ridicule scare us even from saving ourselves?

That prospect intimidated me once, and I can only wonder now what I was frightened of. It's hard to imagine, now that I'm a hundred thirty pounds lighter, infinitely healthier, more full of life and energy, much happier. Now that I have vegetarian friends wherever I go, and feel part of a movement that is not so much political as it is a march of the human heart. Now that I understand how much is at stake. Now that I've come to relish shaking people up.

I would love to see the meat industry and the pesticide industry shaken up, too. I would love to see feedlots close and factory farming end. I would love to see more families return to the land, grow crops for our own species, and raise them organically. I would love to see farm communities revive. I would love to know that I've wandered into my nation's heartland by the sweet smell of grain and not the forbidding smell of excrement.

When you can't take it with you, all that really matters is what you leave behind."*

Howard F. Lyman, LL.D
President & Founder, Voice for a Viable Future

THANK YOU.



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[nickatnoon61]

There are lots of so-called experts in the world who claim many things about food and nutrition. Be very careful about who you believe.

Personally, I eat a lot of dairy and am the fittest, healthiest person I know, because I get LOTS of exercise.

Provided you eat everything in moderation, and get lots of exercise, I don't think you'll suffer any more risk than anyone of cancer or the other baddies.

The whole argument about it not being meant for us is a bit old now I think. It seems almost religious in basis. Who is to say what is meant for us or not?

And to respond to your original point, the government don't try to stop people learning about the contents of milk. There is lots of information on casein and all the other constituents.

Adimon said:

Provided you eat everything in moderation, and get lots of exercise, I don't think you'll suffer any more risk than anyone of cancer or the other baddies.

Nick said:
OK adimon, I have some fresh dog shit soup for you!!! But only a cup, not a bowl, as we have to adhere to your "moderation" rule!!! Come and see me at 50 plus years old and we'll see how healthy you are then, eating a SAD diet! Your profound denial and rationalization is normal tho . Most would sooner change their religion,or die of cancer, before changing their diet! IT'S CALLED ADDICTION!!!!

[adimon]

Come and see me at 50 plus years old and we'll see how healthy you are then, eating a SAD diet! Your profound denial and rationalization is normal tho . Most would sooner change their religion,or die of cancer, before changing their diet! IT'S CALLED ADDICTION!!!!

OK will do Nick. I love Canada, especially BC, so it will be a pleasant trip. :)

I'm British, but I don't mind you using the term SAD - it's not the furthest thing from what I eat.

Macrobiotic, lactose-free, and all thats stuff is your choice. Dieticians and other food experts is still a subjective viewpoint. You may be able to live longer on lentils and stuff, but I get enjoyment from the food I eat, and the main reason is I run 50-100 miles a week so I need lots of protein.

Btw, I don't fancy any more of that dog-shit soup you gave me though! Yuk! Did it have soya in it? :p:):cool:

[i am all i am]

Adimon said:

Provided you eat everything in moderation, and get lots of exercise, I don't think you'll suffer any more risk than anyone of cancer or the other baddies.

Nick said:
OK adimon, I have some fresh dog shit soup for you!!! But only a cup, not a bowl, as we have to adhere to your "moderation" rule!!! Come and see me at 50 plus years old and we'll see how healthy you are then, eating a SAD diet! Your profound denial and rationalization is normal tho . Most would sooner change their religion,or die of cancer, before changing their diet! IT'S CALLED ADDICTION!!!!

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Nickatnoon.

Here is someone at 52 years of age that has been vegetarian for 25 years...

Welcome. My name is Steve Holt and this is my bodybuilding site. I was born and raised in Canada, and I have been a vegetarian for 25 years. I began to seriously train as a bodybuilder some eight years ago, when I was well into my forties. I completed my first series of bodybuilding competitions during the year 2000.

http://vegetarianbodybuilder.com/mediac/400_0/media/IMG_2516_edited-3b.gif
Here I am, 52 years old, after the pre-judging at the CBBF Canadian World Qualifier August 5, 2006.

Steve Holt
Key Statistics:
Age: 52. Height: 5' 8 1/2".
Weight: 165 lbs competition, 190 lbs off-season.
History: Lifetime natural; 25 year lacto-ovo vegetarian.
Forearms 13"
Upper Arms 17"
Neck 16.5"
Chest 45"
Waist 32"
Thighs 25"
Calves 16"
Gym Affiliations: Extreme Fitness
League Affiliations: CBBF, OPA


Titles:
Aug/06 CBBF World Qualifier, 2nd Place, Open Welterweight
Aug/06 CBBF World Qualifier, 2nd Place, Grandmasters (age 50-59)
Jun/06 OPA National Qualifier, 2nd Place, Grandmasters (age 50-59)
Jul/04 CBBF World Qualifier, 3rd Place, Grandmasters (age 50-59)
Jul/04 OPA National Qualifier, 3rd Place, Masters (age 40-49)
Jul/04 OPA National Qualifier, 1st Place, Grandmasters (age 50-59)
Apr/00 ANBC Lion County Classic, 5th Place, Masters (age 35-45)
Mar/00 BAO Regional Championship, 3rd Place, Masters (age 40-49)


Come on in and visit. Perhaps you too are vegetarian, and looking to learn more about building the body. Or perhaps you're interested to see how one can build a competitive physique without meat, without fish, and without anabolic steroids.

Maybe you're skeptical. That's fine too. A healthy skepticism is always welcome, especially when accompanied by an open mind.

Here's what you'll find within this website: Lots of information, including exercise and diet tips, sample menus, published and unpublished articles, links, photos, and feature articles on others who have led the way as vegetarian bodybuilders, like the great Bill Pearl and Roy Hilligen.

http://vegetarianbodybuilder.com/index2.html

Other sites can be found through this search.....

vegetarian bodybuilder - Google Search

THANK YOU.



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[adimon]

Here is someone at 52 years of age that has been vegetarian for 25 years...


His bodybuilding is impressive, especially considering his late start.

Anaerobic is one thing, though - endurance is quite another. I don't think you can get to be Kenenisa Bekele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as a vegetarian or macrobiotic.

Your diet must suit your lifestyle though, and I love to run.

But hey, fitness isn't everything.

[i am all i am]

His bodybuilding is impressive, especially considering his late start.

Anaerobic is one thing, though - endurance is quite another. I don't think you can get to be this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenenisa_Bekele) as a vegetarian or macrobiotic.

Your diet must suit your lifestyle though, and I love to run.

But hey, fitness isn't everything.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Adimon.

Seattle man amazes everyone in 135-mile marathon--including himself

By KRISTIN DIZON
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Look at the photo of the man crossing the tape, arms raised in victory, mouth frozen in a primal yell.

He hardly looks as if he's just run 135 miles, through 115-degree desert heat, from the lowest point in the United States to the slopes of one of its highest points, Mount Whitney.

You wouldn't know that this was his first time racing the Badwater Ultramarathon, or that he shattered the course record by more than half an hour, or that he was a full two hours ahead of his closest competitor.

But the accomplishment is all over Scott Jurek's face.

On July 12, in 24 hours, 36 minutes and eight seconds, the Seattle man won the Badwater, one of ultrarunning's toughest events. Before the California race, Jurek had never run more than 90 minutes on pavement. Nor had he trained for the intense desert heat, except for arriving a week early to the Death Valley start area. And, he'd just come off of winning another world-class ultramarathon two weeks earlier -- barely any recovery time between two colossally demanding endurance feats.

Jurek, who won his seventh Western States 100-miler in a row in June, says he conquered the Badwater by respecting the heat and biding his time.

"You have to be very patient in a race like that," said Jurek, who lives on Capitol Hill. "They've had lots of fast runners go in and think they can just hammer out 7-minute miles from the get go. But, it's a really long day. That's the longest that I'd ever run in my life in one shot."

Some say the Badwater is the most extreme running race in the world. Just 81 runners attempted it this year, and only 67 finished the course, which started 282 feet below sea level in Death Valley and finished 8,360 feet up Mount Whitney. Many competitors take almost as long as the 60-hour cutoff, and some will sleep or rest for hours at a time.

At 31, Jurek is considered young for a world-class ultrarunner, and was the second-youngest in the entire field.

Jurek, a physical therapist, running coach and consultant for Brooks Sports Inc., paced himself with 9- to 10-minute miles during the heat of the day, saving his reserves for the evening, when the temperatures sank below 100.

Before the race, he probably shook things up a bit when he predicted he'd win and set a record time. Though some veterans thought that a little presumptuous, Jurek felt calm and confident.

For more than half the race, Jurek ran in third place, about eight miles and 40 minutes behind the leader. And, around mile 75, he began feeling queasy, then vomited.

That was the mental trough of the race, the point at which he questioned whether to continue.

"My stomach wasn't feeling very good and the heat was starting to drag me down. And, I definitely started to think, gosh, after Western States, why am I doing this so soon?"

Jurek stopped and lay down for about five minutes, but his support crew of nine helpers and pacers, including his wife, Leah, urged him on.

"There's no aid stations out there, so your crew is your lifeline," he said.

Jurek, who's fought through such lows many times, told himself, "I've been here before. I can get through this."

"You dig down deep, whether it's the deep recesses of your body or your soul. It's very soul-searching in a way," he said. "Even though everything else seems to be unraveling, you try to find a way, a source of strength. And, you don't always know where that comes from."

Throughout the race, he kept cool with ice -- in his hat or bandanna, or pressed against his skin. In 24 hours, Jurek went through about 350 pounds of ice. He also sprayed himself with water to combat what felt like a hot hair dryer blasting him all day.

During the peak hours of heat, Jurek drank 16-20 ounces of water every mile. When evening came, he curtailed that to 8-12 ounces per mile.

For food, Jurek, a vegan, ate energy bars and gels, potatoes and rice balls, chased by soy protein drinks and electrolyte capsules. He consumed 60-120 calories every 20-30 minutes, mostly on the run.

That night, when the temperature eased a bit, Jurek made his move. He gained ground on a long downhill, then closed it out. He said the finish -- 5,000 feet uphill over 13 miles -- was one of the toughest he's experienced.

Badwater race director Chris Kostman said he's impressed with Jurek, who had little experience racing on pavement or in such heat.

"There are some people who thought the record was unbreakable," Kostman said. "He's definitely raised the bar."

Now, people are starting to think the race can be done in less than 24 hours, including Jurek.

For now, he has no specific plans for another ultramarathon. He'll skip next year's Western States, but says he might run the Badwater again in the next few years.

But back to that photo of Jurek crossing the finish line. He said that moment almost felt like fireworks going off.

"It's this sense, almost like, you're unstoppable," Jurek says. "You've reached this state where you feel on top of the world."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/othersports/233630_jurek22.html
__________________________________________

Vegan: The Diet of Champions


Whether you want to lift weights, win marathons, compete in organized sporting events, or just stay in shape, a healthy vegan diet can provide all the nutrients you need to be a champ. Plant-based foods power many renowned athletes and have taken a number of Olympic hopefuls all the way to the gold.

Check out this partial list of veggie-chomping champs: Tennis superstar Martina Navratilova, football player and Heisman Trophy-winner Desmond Howard, and Dave Scott, a six-time winner of the Ironman triathlon, have touted the benefits of a vegetarian diet. Famed Argentinian soccer goalkeeper Carlos Roa, was nicknamed, “La Lechuga,” meaning “The Lettuce,” because of his strict vegetarian diet. Bill Walton and Robert Parish, two of the greatest basketball players of all time, were vegetarians, and John Salley, another professional basketball star, is a vegan. So is ultra-marathon man Dom Repta, who has run 100 miles in just under 20 hours.

Australian Cricket superstar Greg Chappel also abstains from animal flesh and animal by-products and fellow cricket superstar Anil Kumble has posed for a PETA advertisement promoting vegetarianism. Says Anil, “Vegetarianism saves animals’ lives and can’t be beat for maintaining a muscular body and building endurance. Vegetarian food contains all the vitamins and protein you need to be at your best and is free of all the fat, cholesterol and toxins found in meat.”

Swimmer Murray Rose, who has reportedly been vegetarian since birth, has six Olympic medals—the most of any Australian. Vegetarian Debbie Lawrence is an Olympic racewalking champ, and Al Oerter is a vegetarian discus thrower and winner of four Olympic gold medals. A healthy vegetarian diet helped propel two-time Olympic gold medalist Edwin Moses over the hurdles, and Olympian Carl Lewis has said that his best year of track competition was the first year that he ate a vegan diet.

Popular strength trainer Mike Mahler claims that, “Becoming a vegan had a profound effect on my training. … [M]y bench press excelled past 315 pounds, and I noticed that I recovered much faster. My body fat also went down, and I put on 10 pounds of lean muscle in a few months.”

Four-time Mr. Universe Bill Pearl, powerlifting champion Bill Mannetti, 1951 Mr. America Roy Hilligenn, Stan Price, the world-record holder in bench press, and Steve Holt, a top-ranking natural bodybuilder, have all reportedly eaten a vegetarian or vegan diet at one point in their careers. These powerhouses aren’t alone—some of the strongest animals, such as apes, elephants, and giraffes, are vegetarian as well!

International Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness Federation and International Natural Bodybuilding Association bodybuilder Robert Cheeke is perhaps the world’s most recognized vegan bodybuilder. In an article on veganbodybuilding.com, Cheeke writes, “The basics for nutrition are consuming large amounts of fresh green vegetables and a variety of fruits, to load yourself up with vibrant vitamins and minerals. When it comes to bodybuilding nutrition, the most important keys are to keep your immune system strong and to consume a large amount of protein and calories. Quality protein sources include tofu, tempeh, nuts, seeds, beans, legumes, isolated protein powders and shakes, soy protein bars, nut butters, seitan, soymilks, and other soy products.”

According to a recent article on vegetarian and vegan nutrition on AMEInfo.com, which is billed as the ultimate Middle East business resource, strength athletes such as weight-lifters and sprinters may require 1.4 - 1.6 grams/kilograms of protein per day while endurance athletes may need between 1.2 - 1.4 grams/kiliograms of protein a day. Vegetarian athletes should be sure to consume iron-rich foods, such as cooked beans and lentils, leafy green vegetables, pumpkin seeds, potato skins, and blackstrap molasses. Eating foods high in Vitamin C, including citrus and broccoli, will help increase the absorption of iron. Vegan superstars should also consume calcium-rich foods, includingsesame seeds, soybeans, almonds, beans, flaxseed, and leafy green vegetables, and athletes who don’t eat animal products should eat vegan foods that are fortified with Vitamin B12 or take a multivitamin or B12 supplement.

Vegan foods give athletes the strength, speed, and stamina they need to leave their carnivorous competitors in the dust. A Danish study in 1968 revealed that men peddling on a stationary bicycle until muscle failure lasted an average of 114 minutes on a mixed meat and vegetable diet, 57 minutes on a high-meat diet, and a whopping 167 minutes on a vegan diet.

Plant-based foods are cholesterol-free, and are high in vitamins, minerals, and fiber, and other nutrients that are essential for energy and endurance. In 1988, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition reported that a vegetarian diet is an optimal sports diet due to its high carbohydrate and low fat content.

It doesn’t matter if you’re playing for fun or playing for championships, if you want to excel, practice hard and eat a healthy vegan diet. See www.VegCooking.comfor recipes that are fit for a champ!

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977116252
______________________________________

How to Be a Vegan Marathon Runner

Introduction
Marathon running requires a healthy, fortified diet and intentional food consumption. Meals should pack protein and carbohydrates as well as meet your standard daily nutritional needs. Careful attention to nutrition complements a vegan diet and provides the necessary nourishment for marathon running.
Instructions
Difficulty: Challenging
Vegan Nutrition While Training
Steps
1Step OneGet enough protein. Use vegan protein sources such as tofu, nuts, whole grains, legumes (beans and lentils, for example) and dark green vegetables. Aim for at least 60 grams of protein per day or more, depending on your body weight. Calculate 0.5 to 0.7 grams for every pound of body weight.
2Step TwoConsume 65 percent of your dietary intake as complex carbohydrates, such as whole-wheat and whole-grain carbohydrates. Whole-wheat pastas, breads, noodles and brown rices also provide ample protein to help you reach both your carbohydrate and protein goals.
3Step ThreeHydrate your body often during training. Drink plenty of water throughout the day and during your training runs. Use electrolyte replacement drinks.
4Step FourConsider the nutritive value of everything you consume. Eat a variety of foods. Attempt to get your protein from different sources throughout the day rather than depending solely upon soy.
Tips & Warnings
Take a multivitamin to ensure adequate intake of essential vitamins and minerals.
Vegan Nutrition for Long Runs and Race Day
Steps
1Step OneCarbo-load the day and night before your long runs and race. Use complex carbohydrates such as whole wheat pastas and breads.
2Step TwoEat a low-fat, low-protein breakfast that's high in complex carbohydrates. Use your long runs as a chance to experiment and find the best breakfast, so that you eat something tried-and-true for race day. Snack on easily digestible foods throughout your run to stay energized and strong.
3Step ThreeDrink plenty of water. For runs longer than 60 minutes, use electrolyte replacement drinks or gels in addition to water.
4Step FourHave something filling and nutritional immediately following the race or long run, and continue to eat heartily (and healthfully) throughout the rest of the day. Continue to stay hydrated. Recovery nutrition is very important.
Tips & Warnings
Use your long runs as practice races. Road-test your gear (clothing, shoes, underwear and hat, for example) as well as your eating habits. Develop a list of the best night-before meals, breakfasts, mid-run foods and post-run recovery meals.
When running for hours at a time, remember to appeal to your senses. Select mid-run snacks that pack nutrition and taste good. Trail mix with pretzels, dried fruit and dark chocolate works well.
Be sure to wear vegan (non-leather) running shoes. Most running shoes are entirely synthetic, but a few leather pairs are still on the market.
Avoid hyponatremia, a dangerous condition amplified by consuming too much water without replenishing electrolytes. Salt also works, but sodium is only one of the electrolytes you must replenish.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2083108_be-vegan-marathon-runner.html
_____________________________________

Dom Repta

Other comments: Go Vegan and drink Hemp!

http://www.ouser.org/bios/rept_d.htm

THANK YOU.



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[nickatnoon61]

OK will do Nick. I love Canada, especially BC, so it will be a pleasant trip. :)

I'm British, but I don't mind you using the term SAD - it's not the furthest thing from what I eat.

Macrobiotic, lactose-free, and all thats stuff is your choice. Dieticians and other food experts is still a subjective viewpoint. You may be able to live longer on lentils and stuff, but I get enjoyment from the food I eat, and the main reason is I run 50-100 miles a week so I need lots of protein.

Btw, I don't fancy any more of that dog-shit soup you gave me though! Yuk! Did it have soya in it? :p:):cool:

SAD diet=Standard American Diet= CRAP . It is obvious you know little about a living foods diet. I have been studying this for over 25 years, and I KNOW from EXPERIENCE, what is good for me, by my energy levels! The so-called EXPERTS are LIARS, with their mumbo-jumbo data and statistics!!!! Some know from intuition/common-sense, and most don't have a clue, get sick, and die an early death! Ces't le vie!!!
:p

[adimon]

Well Nick, IAAIA, it's not clear-cut to me, and I won't be changing my diet anytime soon, but in terms of evidence for long-distance running, I stand corrected.

All the other sports are a different matter, but by showing me the Jurek fellow, at least I now know it can be done.

But for me to eat enough protein from vegan sources would cost me a lot of money which I can't afford, I must say.

Maybe if it were cheaper I'd consider it. But I do LOVE beef. Not sure I would be willing to give it up either. I loved cigarettes too, and giving that up was really hard, not just because of addiction, but because I really enjoyed a good American Spirit.

I stand corrected on the running thing though.

[i am all i am]

Well Nick, IAAIA, it's not clear-cut to me, and I won't be changing my diet anytime soon, but in terms of evidence for long-distance running, I stand corrected.

All the other sports are a different matter, but by showing me the Jurek fellow, at least I now know it can be done.

But for me to eat enough protein from vegan sources would cost me a lot of money which I can't afford, I must say.

Maybe if it were cheaper I'd consider it. But I do LOVE beef. Not sure I would be willing to give it up either. I loved cigarettes too, and giving that up was really hard, not just because of addiction, but because I really enjoyed a good American Spirit.

I stand corrected on the running thing though.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Adimon.

Organic vegan is even dearer. It's like they don't want anybody to be able to afford to eat healthily.

Although I will say, I don't eat anywhere near as much as I did when I was eating flesh and dairy. I find that now I do not require the same quantity to be able to get the same amounts of nutrients, vitamins, minerals, etc. The main difficulty with buying organically is having access to it. Although in Australia, we apparently have the largest supply of organic food per person than any other country, and I have found organic food to almost be a new trend here.

THANK YOU.



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[nickatnoon61]

Well Nick, IAAIA, it's not clear-cut to me, and I won't be changing my diet anytime soon, but in terms of evidence for long-distance running, I stand corrected.

All the other sports are a different matter, but by showing me the Jurek fellow, at least I now know it can be done.

But for me to eat enough protein from vegan sources would cost me a lot of money which I can't afford, I must say.

Maybe if it were cheaper I'd consider it. But I do LOVE beef. Not sure I would be willing to give it up either. I loved cigarettes too, and giving that up was really hard, not just because of addiction, but because I really enjoyed a good American Spirit.

I stand corrected on the running thing though. People are giving up meat for the same reason as giving up cigarettes! I have no problem with those who admit what they are eating,drinking,etc., is harmful to themselves and the environment! It's those who go into denial and and say that their diet is good for this or that reason! The vast majority have no clue as to what to eat, because that is what they have been taught in school! We have to unlearn, not learn!

[cyberdaemon]

I do not care how deadly milk is.All i know is that it makes your bones stronger and even if it would kill i still would drink it.I do it because i like it.And if i cant live as i want , the life is useless.So dying because of you hobby or stuff like that is fine.Life is not about staying alive , its about freedom to do things you want to do.And if you cant , life is worth of nothing.

Physical survival is always secondary objective.First and primary is to be truly happy.

[i am all i am]

I do not care how deadly milk is.All i know is that it makes your bones stronger.....

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Cyberdaemon.

I was diagnosed with a bone disease when I was a child, perthes, which has a secondary condition called osteonecrosis. I used to drink a lot of milk because I also believed what I had been told about it being good for bones. From personal experience I know that it's a load of cow shit !!!

Here's some information for you so that you will truly know.....


WHO GETS BONE DISEASE?

Why do nations with the highest rates of bone disease also have the highest milk consumption rates? The highest rates of osteoporosis are to be found in Denmark, Holland, Norway, and Sweden.

We are told to consume 1000 milligrams per day of calcium. Inuit Eskimos consume 3500 milligrams of calcium each day, and by age 40 are crippled.

THE KEY TO OSTEOPOROSIS

It's not how much calcium you eat. It's how much calcium you prevent from leaving your bones.

WHY DOES CALCIUM LEAVE BONES?

There are 28 amino acids in nature. The human body can manufacture 19 of them. The other nine are called "essential." We must get them from the foods we eat.

One of those "essential" aminos is methionine.

One needs methionine for many human metabolic functions including digestion, detoxification of heavy metals, and muscle metabolism. However, an excess of methionine can be toxic.

Methionine = C-5, H-11, NO, S

Methionine is a good source for sulfur. That's the problem. Eat foods containing too much methionine, and your blood will become acidic. The sulfur converts to sulfates and weak forms of sulphuric acid. In order to neutralize the acid, in its wisdom, the body leeches calcium from bones.

"Dietary protein increases production of acid in the blood which can be neutralized by calcium mobilized from the skeleton."

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1995; 61 (4)

Animal proteins contain more methionine than plant proteins. Let's compare cow's milk to soymilk:

Methionine in 100 grams of soymilk: .040 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of whole milk: .083 grams
Methionine in 100 grams of skim milk: .099 grams


Now, let's compare 100 gram portions of tofu to meat: (All of the meat products are lean and without skin)

Silken soft tofu: .074 grams
Hamburger: .282 grams
Hard boiled egg: .392 grams
Roast ham: .535 grams
Baked codfish: .679 grams
Swiss cheese .784 grams
Roast chicken: .801 grams


In 1988, N.A. Breslau and colleagues identified the relationship between protein-rich diets and calcium metabolism, noting that protein caused calcium loss. His work was published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology (1988;66:140-6).

A 1994 study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (Remer T, Am J Clin Nutr 1994;59:1356-61) found that animal proteins cause calcium to be leached from the bones and excreted in the urine.

MORE SUPORTING EVIDENCE:

"Osteoporosis is caused by a number of things, one of the most important being too much dietary protein."

Science 1986;233(4763)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Even when eating 1,400 mg of calcium daily, one can lose up to 4% of his or her bone mass each year while consuming a high-protein diet."
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1979;32(4)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Increasing one's protein intake by 100% may cause calcium loss to double."
Journal of Nutrition, 1981; 111 (3)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The average man in the US eats 175% more protein than the recommended daily allowance and the average woman eats 144% more."
Surgeon General's Report on Nutrition and Health, 1988

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years, were associated with an increased risk of hip fractures... metabolism of dietary protein causes increased urinary excretion of calcium."
American Journal of Epidemiology 1994;139

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can it get worse? Absolutely.
The Framingham Heart Study is the largest and most exciting heart study in the history of mankind. Some of the highlights of this exhaustive 50 year study:

In 1960, Cigarette smoking was found to increase the risk of heart disease.

In 1970, high blood pressure was found to increase the risk of stroke.

During the 1980's, high levels of HDL cholesterol were found to reduce risk of death from heart disease.

In the 1990's, homocysteines were identified as key factors in heart attack deaths.

Homocysteines are normal breakdown products of methionine and are believed to exert a number of toxic effects in the body. I recently spoke with the senior investigator of the Framinham heart study, William Castelli, M.D. (E-mail: william_castelli@mwmc.com) Dr. Castelli has suggested that an elevated homocysteine level is a risk factor for heart disease. The first evidence of this was published in the Amercian Journal of Cardiology (Glueck, 1995;75:132*6).

Two recent publications resulting from Framingham data indicate a positive correlation between cardiovascular disease mortality and blood serum levels of homocysteine.

Bostom AG, et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine levels and all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in elderly Framingham men and women. Arch Intern Med 1999; 159:1077-1080.

Bostom A.G., et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine levels and stroke incidence in elderly persons: the Framingham Study. Ann Intern Med 131[5], 352-355, 1999.


THANK YOU.



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[chris]

I do not care how deadly milk is.All i know is that it makes your bones stronger and even if it would kill i still would drink it.I do it because i like it.And if i cant live as i want , the life is useless.So dying because of you hobby or stuff like that is fine.Life is not about staying alive , its about freedom to do things you want to do.And if you cant , life is worth of nothing.

Physical survival is always secondary objective.First and primary is to be truly happy.

Some truth on here! Yes I totally agree and good luck to you.

When people say that organic food is expensive, I've spent the last 6 months on less than £10 a week, picking my own organic unfrozen food right from the source and eating it. The only times I went over budget was when I decided to get treats but technically, it's much cheaper. You can do it all year around but I need more reading on that right now, I'm using this as a leg up into full on natural survival.

[awakensong]

Cyberdaemon, I agree that the will to continue living includes enjoyment of the life one is living. Very well-said!

I also agree with I Am All I Am that animal protein, which of course includes dairy products, ultimately results in calcium "loss" and bone deterioration. IAAIA -- is there a link to the article you have posted?

[nickatnoon61]

I do not care how deadly milk is.All i know is that it makes your bones stronger and even if it would kill i still would drink it.I do it because i like it.And if i cant live as i want , the life is useless.So dying because of you hobby or stuff like that is fine.Life is not about staying alive , its about freedom to do things you want to do.And if you cant , life is worth of nothing.

Physical survival is always secondary objective.First and primary is to be truly happy.
CBD, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNAWARE, OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SLAUGHTER OF MILLIONS OF BEEF CATTLE AND DAIRY CATTLE, EVERY YEAR.What do you think this does to the vibration of our planet?Read Iam's post about milk and calcium deficiency. Most humans are lower than animals on the evolutionary scale. The only positive here, is that they are not at the top of the food chain!:eek:

[spacegurl]

They insist we have a glass of milk every day. Pregnant women usually target milk when they go through food cravings and drink by the gallons. I love milk though but I try having only pure stuff.

On a side issue though, I've noticed a lot of food fascism creeping everywhere. The government, media, health "experts", celebs and big supermarket chains are telling everyone what to eat, not what to eat, what's good for you and what isn't. Many food companies are withdrawing a lot of natural ingredients like salt, sugar, fat and vitamins by claiming it's bad for your health. They call what's left of it "better" although it tastes so boring. They've replaced natural ingredients with artificial stuff like "e" numbers (that are also found in prescribed medicines) and should come with a health warning.

[lilly555]

CBD, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY UNAWARE, OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SLAUGHTER OF MILLIONS OF BEEF CATTLE AND DAIRY CATTLE, EVERY YEAR.What do you think this does to the vibration of our planet?Read Iam's post about milk and calcium deficiency. Most humans are lower than animals on the evolutionary scale. The only positive here, is that they are not at the top of the food chain!:eek:


I just want to point out that they don't slaughter cows for milk. They need the cow to stay alive so that it can continue producing milk.

[awakensong]

I just want to point out that they don't slaughter cows for milk. They need the cow to stay alive so that it can continue producing milk.
Yes, but it is an exploitation of the cow to be forced into producing milk, so what kind of life is it for her? The baby calf is taken away at 2 days old and sold into the veal market. The mother cow cries and brays for her calf but is not consoled. She is milked dry for human consumption, then "studded" for pregnancy again, and it repeats itself over and over. Even before this "farmageddon" scene, when farms were individually owned and things were more humane, the cow was exploited and forced into producing more milk. This could be done with human mothers as well, but isn't of course. It only takes continued stimulation of the mammary glands in order for the body to continue producing milk, but then the health and stamina of the organism declines, and the quality of life is greatly reduced.

I'm no longer fooled, either, that just because it's "organic" milk it isn't cruel. Organic dairy cows can even have Mad Cow Disease; they are all purchased from the commercial industry.

[nickatnoon61]

Yes, but it is an exploitation of the cow to be forced into producing milk, so what kind of life is it for her? The baby calf is taken away at 2 days old and sold into the veal market. The mother cow cries and brays for her calf but is not consoled. She is milked dry for human consumption, then "studded" for pregnancy again, and it repeats itself over and over. Even before this "farmageddon" scene, when farms were individually owned and things were more humane, the cow was exploited and forced into producing more milk. This could be done with human mothers as well, but isn't of course. It only takes continued stimulation of the mammary glands in order for the body to continue producing milk, but then the health and stamina of the organism declines, and the quality of life is greatly reduced.

I'm no longer fooled, either, that just because it's "organic" milk it isn't cruel. Organic dairy cows can even have Mad Cow Disease; they are all purchased from the commercial industry.
lilly and awakensong, the dairy cow, after it's sad pent-up existence, is then slaughtered for it's meat! The same goes for the organic dairy cow!

[nickatnoon61]

I do not care how deadly milk is.All i know is that it makes your bones stronger and even if it would kill i still would drink it.I do it because i like it.And if i cant live as i want , the life is useless.So dying because of you hobby or stuff like that is fine.Life is not about staying alive , its about freedom to do things you want to do.And if you cant , life is worth of nothing.

Physical survival is always secondary objective.First and primary is to be truly happy.

This is a CLASSIC example of the dumbed-down,mind-controlled/addicted drone! The Lord must have loved them, for he made so many!!!:eek:

[i am all i am]

I also agree with I Am All I Am that animal protein, which of course includes dairy products, ultimately results in calcium "loss" and bone deterioration. IAAIA -- is there a link to the article you have posted?

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Awakensong.

The article, along with the previous ones, can all be found at NotMilk.....

http://www.notmilk.com/

THANK YOU.



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[lilly555]

Yes, but it is an exploitation of the cow to be forced into producing milk, so what kind of life is it for her? The baby calf is taken away at 2 days old and sold into the veal market. The mother cow cries and brays for her calf but is not consoled. She is milked dry for human consumption, then "studded" for pregnancy again, and it repeats itself over and over. Even before this "farmageddon" scene, when farms were individually owned and things were more humane, the cow was exploited and forced into producing more milk. This could be done with human mothers as well, but isn't of course. It only takes continued stimulation of the mammary glands in order for the body to continue producing milk, but then the health and stamina of the organism declines, and the quality of life is greatly reduced.

I'm no longer fooled, either, that just because it's "organic" milk it isn't cruel. Organic dairy cows can even have Mad Cow Disease; they are all purchased from the commercial industry.


awakensong, the dairy cow, after it's sad pent-up existence, is then slaughtered for it's meat! The same goes for the organic dairy cow!

Yeah I'm sure that's true for mainstream, and most "corporate organics''

Thanks for all this good info.

I choose this local place where they don't kill the cow and they have the cows feed off of the natural grass, and all that stuff. Still it is a form of exploitation and it probably does create a fair amount of bad energy. :(

[eternal_spirit]

Some truth on here! Yes I totally agree and good luck to you.

When people say that organic food is expensive, I've spent the last 6 months on less than £10 a week, picking my own organic unfrozen food right from the source and eating it. The only times I went over budget was when I decided to get treats but technically, it's much cheaper. You can do it all year around but I need more reading on that right now, I'm using this as a leg up into full on natural survival.
...............

What do you eat and where do you get it from? the organic stuff you pick straight from the source.....

[eternal_spirit]

Excellent thread I now have many links to read up on. :)
Going to take me a while to figure it all out.

[i am all i am]

I just want to point out that they don't slaughter cows for milk. They need the cow to stay alive so that it can continue producing milk.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Lilly.

Here are a few facts about dairy cows that you may have missed in your research.....

"Natural life-span of a dairy cow: 20-25 years." [02.06.27:06]

"Lifespan of U.S. dairy cows. 3-4 years." [02.06.27:07]

"Period of time required for U.S. factory farms cows to produce their own weight in milk today: 3 weeks." [02.06.27:08]

"U.S. dairy cows that at any given time have mastitis (painful udder infections): 50%." Adcock, Melanie, "The Diary Cow: America's 'Foster Mother,"' Humane Society of the United States; http://www.hsus.org [02.06.27:10]

http://www.madcowboy.com/01_FactsAR.000.html#animalfactories
_____________________________________

MORE TERRIFYING THAN PMS? PMO!

Can you locate your state on the list (at the end of this
column?)

The United States Department of Health and Human Services,
along with the Public Health Service and Food and Drug
Administration, has established a 280 page set of protocols
that is collectively referred to as:

The Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (P.M.O.)

The foreword of this all-inclusive set of rules and
regulations governing every quart of milk sold in Ameirca
says:

"Occasional milkborne outbreaks still occur, emphasizing the
need for continued vigilance at every stage of production,
processing, pasteurization and distribution of milk and milk
products."

It is a breath of fresh air to read an occasional
governmental truism regarding milk:

"Milk has the potential to serve as a vehicle of disease and
has, in the past, been associated with disease outbreaks of
major proportions."

This document is more than a guideline for milk producers.
It's the law. In the preface, the purpose of the P.M.O. is
summarized:

"The Grade 'A' Pasteurized Milk Ordinance is incorporated by
reference in Federal specifications for procurement of milk
and milk products; is used as the sanitary regulation for
milk and milk products served on interstate carriers; and is
recognized by the public health agencies, the milk industry,
and many others as a national standard for milk sanitation."

Many dairy producers have challenged the laws contained
within the all-powerful P.M.O. Courts have clearly
maintained the integrity of these sets of laws when asked to
do so. On page vi of the preface, the P.M.O. states:

"The Ordinance has been widely adopted for many years and
has been upheld by court actions. One of the most
comprehensive decisions upholding the various provisions of
the Ordinance was that of the District Court, Reno County,
Kansas, in the case of Billings et al v. City of Hutchinson
et al., decided May 1, 1934. In this action, the plaintiffs
unsuccessfully sought to enjoin the enforcement of the
Hutchinson ordinance on the grounds that it was
unreasonable..."

The courts have repeatedly upheld the sanctity of this set
of laws.

The dairy industry continues to ignore the spirit of the
laws so enacted.

To date, no individual or group has challenged national
enforcement of these statutes. There is a first time for all
things.

The table of contents (page vii of the preface) lists the
standards for Grade A milk, and defines "Abnormal Milk" on
page 20.

The standards for Grade "A" raw milk for pasteurization
define abnormal milk this way:

"Lactating animals which show evidence of the secretion of
abnormal milk in one or more quarters (the udder is divided
into four quarters), based upon bacteriological, chemical,
or physical examination, shall be milked last or with
separate equipment and the milk shall be discarded."

The above is further explained ("Public Health Reason"):

"The health of lactating animals is a very important
consideration because a number of diseases of lactating
animals, including salmonellosis, staphloccal infection and
streptococcal infection, may be transmitted to man through
the medium of milk. The organisms of most of these diseases
may get into the milk either directly from the udder or
indirectly through infected body discharges which may drop,
splash, or be blown into the milk."

What is "abnormal milk?"

The current issue of Hoard's Dairyman, the dairy farmer's
magazine, addresses that question. Veterinarian Dave Linn
testifies on page 341 of the April 25, 2002 issue:

"According to the PMO, all milk from cows producing
'abnormal' milk should be dumped."

Linn compares "wholesome" milk to "abnormal" milk, and
reveals insider industry standards shared by the National
Mastitis Council, United States Department of Agriculture,
and Food and Drug Administration. If cows are infected, milk
is abnormal. This is a dirty secret that government agencies
conspire to keep from the dairy-eating public. Dr. Linn
writes:

"Research has shown that, with a herd cell count of 200,000,
there may be as many as 15 percent of the cows infected. In
herds with a 300,000 count, this figure may be as high as
25%."

("Cell count" refers to the number of somatic cells, dead
white blood cells per milliter of milk).

So, if 25% of the cows in your state are sick and producing
abnormal milk which should be dumped, and that milk is not
dumped, something is seriously wrong with the system. It is
clear that some states in violation of these rigorous milk
standards.

Is your state in violation?

If the cell count is over 200,000 in your state, please send
a formal complaint to your Department of Agriculture. Start
with a phone call. The number should be in your telephone
book.

How do you learn the average cell count of milk sold in your
state? That's easy. The April 25, 2002 issue of Hoard's
Dairyman lists every state in America on page 342.

ADVICE: If the count is over 200,000 in your state, the milk
is unfit to drink. File a complaint today.

Average Cell Count Per State (48 continental) in 2001:

AL - 444,000 (pus cells)
AZ - 360,000
AR - 486,000
CA - 298,000
CO - 312,000
CT - 310,000
DE - 386,000
FL - 548,000
GA - 407,000
ID - 320,000
IL - 322,000
IN - 343,000
IA - 333,000
KS - 476,000
KY - 413,000
LA - 479,000
ME - 290,000
MD - 351,000
MA - 308,000
MI - 287,000
MN - 420,000
MS - 442,000
MO - 437,000
MT - 248,000
NE - 443,000
NV - 330,000
NH - 299,000
NJ - 339,000
NM - 311,000
NY - 280,000
NC - 364,000
ND - 344,000
OH - 327,000
OK - 483,000
OR - 286,000
PA - 317,000
RI - 206,000
SC - 404,000
SD - 459,000
TN - 413,000
UT - 284,000
VT - 302,000
VA - 333,000
WA - 275,000
WV - 422,000
WI - 297,000
WY - 341,000

Mastitus (and pus that results from it) is NOT a new
problem. Hoards Dairyman from 1959 speaks to those same
dairy-insider problems.

http://www.notmilk.com/forum/911.html
_______________________________________

Mastitis at Calving

http://www.wvc.com.au/pr01.htm
_______________________________________

The Facts about Dairy Cows

Cows' milk is the liquid secreted by the mammary glands of female cows for the nourishment of their calves. To produce milk, the cow must become pregnant and give birth.

The image of dairy cows living an idyllic life, happily munching away on grass in open green fields is, sadly, far from being a reality. Most dairy cows suffer terribly during their unnaturally short intense lives. Dairy farming is the single largest agricultural sector in Britain. Animals are viewed and, therefore, treated as milk-producing machines - units of production, being constantly manipulated to increase efficiency. Holstein and Friesian are the most common breeds in the UK.

How are dairy cows kept?
Most dairy cows graze on pasture during spring and summer months and are housed indoors in cowsheds during the winter. The practice of keeping dairy cows indoors for most of the year is increasing. In some cases, cows are kept indoors all year - this is known as zero-grazing.

How much milk does a dairy cow produce?
Dairy cows are commonly referred to as the most over-worked of all farm animals, forced to produce higher and higher milk yields over the past 50 years - 119% over all breeds. Dairy cows now produce 20-50 litres of milk each day - approximately ten times as much milk as her calf would suckle.

How do dairy cows keep producing milk?
The modern dairy cow must remain lactating, which means being in a constant cycle of pregnancy. She is first impregnated, usually artificially, at 15-18 months, giving birth nine months later when she is just over two years old. After about 12 hours her calf is taken away from her forever, so that her milk can be extracted and sold for human consumption. Separation of mother and infant causes acute anxiety and suffering to both animals - calves can be heard calling for their mothers long after they have been separated. Impregnated again, just two to three months after each calving, cows are simultaneously lactating and pregnant for at least seven months of the year. They will produce up to 10,000 litres of milk during each lactation.

Often cows have only 2-4 calves before becoming 'worn out', either through chronic health problems or infertility, and are sent for slaughter, often for low-grade meat such as burgers. In the UK, because of BSE regulations, no cow over 30 months old is used for food.

What happens to the calves?
Female calves may be kept for milk-production. However, male (bull) dairy calves are an unwanted by-product of the milk-production industry. Unwanted by the farmer, they are often shot or killed by electrocution within a few days of birth and used in baby food, cheese and pie ingredients or for dog food.

Do dairy cows suffer?
The demand for the massive over-production of milk has had severe welfare implications for dairy cows and has resulted in a number of so-called production diseases.

Mastitis
Mastitis is a painful bacterial infection of the udder that causes inflammation and swelling. The udder becomes hard and hot with an abnormal discharge. Studies show that over one-third of the UK dairy herd suffers from mastitis. The cow is often lame in one or both hind legs with swollen joints. Body temperature can be high and in some cases pregnant cows will abort or produce a stunted calf. Mastitis can lead to depressed appetite, dehydration and severe diarrhoea. It can be fatal.

Poor hygiene in cubicle houses and poorly designed and maintained milking machines are major contributors. Milking occurs two to three times per day and is fully mechanised. Automated milking machines extract milk by a method known as vacuum pulsation. This can weaken tissue and make the teats more prone to infections like mastitis.

The financial cost of mastitis to farmers is often high, with millions of doses of antibiotics (often penicillin) being used to treat it every year. The cost to cows in terms of pain and suffering is much harder to quantify.

Lameness
A cow's udders can be so huge and swollen that they force her hind legs apart, causing a distortion of the hind limbs. Her foot becomes predisposed to damage and inflammation causing considerable suffering and pain.

She is also often forced to stand with her hind feet in the passageway behind the cubicle where manure and urine collect. This can soften the cow's hooves and encourages infection.

Yield-boosting starchy high-protein feeds that increase milk output can lead to ruminal acidosis, too much acid in the cow's rumen. This in turn leads to inflammatory substances being released into the blood, which supplies the sensitive laminae of the cow's feet. The feet become hot, swollen and inflamed, causing and exacerbating lameness.

Scientific surveys have shown a mean annual incidence of lameness of over 50%, with practically all cows showing signs of foot damage by the time they are slaughtered.

BSE
Over 100,000 cases of Bovine Spongiform Encepholopathy (BSE) have been confirmed in the UK and, as most animals are slaughtered before they are old enough to show any symptoms, the true number of infected animals could be much higher.

Other diseases
Dairy cows can also suffer from a range of other diseases. These can include ketosis, milk fever, grass staggers, viral pneumonia, salmonellosis, bovine virus diarrhoea, brucellosis and endometritis. Most of these diseases result in terrible suffering. They are caused and exacerbated by the cows being pushed too hard to produce huge milk yields.

Artificial breeding techniques
Up to 75% of dairy cows in the UK are impregnated by artificial insemination (AI). An increasing number are being bred using a procedure known as embryo transfer. This is so painful that, when being undertaken, the law requires that an epidural anaesthetic be administered. Embryo transfer is used to multiply quickly the 'highest quality' cows. These cows are given drugs to cause 'superovulation', so that their oocytes (egg cells) can be retrieved and used for embryo transfer to lower quality surrogate mothers.

How long is a dairy cow's life?
Cows that do not produce enough milk are often killed after only one lactation. Other cows may be killed if they are not easy to handle, become ill or have calving problems.

By the time she is just five years old, she is worn out by the strain of constant production and is slaughtered as a 'spent' or 'cast' dairy cow. She may be so run- down and emaciated that her back and hip bones protrude. A cow's natural lifespan could be as much as 25 years.

How are dairy cows killed?
Most cows are slaughtered by throat-cutting (called sticking) following stunning using a captive bolt pistol. The captive bolt pistol is fired into the cow's head and penetrates her brain. However, the captive bolt pistol does not always successfully stun the animal. Mis-stunning causes considerable distress, with the animal still conscious during throat-cutting.

Because of BSE, no cattle older than 30 months are permitted to go into the human food chain. Instead, they are killed and burned and their remains stored in giant warehouses around the country.

What is BST?
BST, or Bovine Somatotropin is a genetically-engineered version of a cow's own growth hormone and is injected into the cow to increase milk yield. It usually causes long-lasting swellings at the injection site, doubles the length of the period of catabolic stress experienced by lactating cows after calving and increases the chances of a cow contracting mastitis. These health and welfare issues led to an EU ban. However, BST is still being used in several countries, including the USA, whose dairy products are still being imported into the EU.

Is there any welfare-friendly milk?
Organic dairy farming can cause less suffering to dairy cows. However, conditions for the cows are far from ideal, with many animals often suffering from diseases such as mastitis and lameness. In order to lactate, the cows still need to be made pregnant. Male calves are still a by-product and are usually taken away from their mothers within 24 hours, and many are shot. There is no such thing as 'humane milk' - the only truly welfare-friendly type of milk is non-dairy and obtained from plants.

Is cow's milk a food for humans?
Humans are the only animals who regularly drink the milk of another animal. Milk is essentially a modern, industrial phenomenon - its consumption really took off after the discovery of pasteurisation in 1864. Nowadays, governments, including American and British, often have departments playing the dual role of promoting agricultural products and providing dietary advice.

http://www.advocatesforanimals.org.uk/resources/farmed/dairy.html


THANK YOU.



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[nickatnoon61]

Excellent thread I now have many links to read up on. :)
Going to take me a while to figure it all out.
ES, there is nothing to figure out. Eat "LIVING/RAW" non-animal natural/organic foods, and live.Eat dead animal flesh, and by-products and die! The best food you can eat/drink is probably wheatgrass! It is a very powerful superfood! Have you ever been muscle-tested for certain foods? Wheatgrass is at, or close to the top of the energy/vibration ladder! It is a complete food with over 90...something minerals,protein,etc.

[nickatnoon61]

Yeah I'm sure that's true for mainstream, and most "corporate organics''

Thanks for all this good info.

I choose this local place where they don't kill the cow and they have the cows feed off of the natural grass, and all that stuff. Still it is a form of exploitation and it probably does create a fair amount of bad energy. :(

Lilly, try going without dairy and meat for 30 days. After 2 weeks, you will be getting over the addiction to hormones and other "goodies" in the meat. After that you will start feeling more energetic, day by day!!! Go to Gabriel Cousen's Tree Of Life website, and read about the amazing recoveries from serious mental illnesses, ALL CAUSED BY CONSUMING MEAT! ALL MEAT!!!!

[eternal_spirit]

ES, there is nothing to figure out. Eat "LIVING/RAW" non-animal natural/organic foods, and live.Eat dead animal flesh, and by-products and die! The best food you can eat/drink is probably wheatgrass! It is a very powerful superfood! Have you ever been muscle-tested for certain foods? Wheatgrass is at, or close to the top of the energy/vibration ladder! It is a complete food with over 90...something minerals,protein,etc.
............

I was veggie for over 10 years and vegan on and off and always eaten lots of raw foods. But eaten meat recently last few months:( wish I hadn't because the taste is bad and the ethical issues. I do weight training and formed great muscle definition on a veggie some times vegan diet, but I'm a bit skinny lol. Although thin and lean is healthy, so I'm physically in pretty good shape.

So yes time to drop the meat again. Have heard of wheat grass I'll have to get some. :)

[nickatnoon61]

............

I was veggie for over 10 years and vegan on and off and always eaten lots of raw foods. But eaten meat recently last few months:( wish I hadn't because the taste is bad and the ethical issues. I do weight training and formed great muscle definition on a veggie some times vegan diet, but I'm a bit skinny lol. Although thin and lean is healthy, so I'm physically in pretty good shape.

So yes time to drop the meat again. Have heard of wheat grass I'll have to get some. :)

Hi ES,:) I notice most people who are at their optimum weight, consider themselves skinny? It's amazing how sitting on my arse in front of the computer for hours on end, makes me FAT!!! ha ha I wish I was skinny right now!!! I have to do a 10 day fast/cleanse, again, and get back to the gym. Susan Schenck has a great book out on RAW Foodism! After her new hubby used to work out 7 days a week!After he went RAW ,he only worked out 3 days a week, and he lost a lot of weight, and gained strength.!!The body treats ALL cooked food as toxic, and stores it in fat. That is why most are overweight and always sick. ES, before you put something in your body, ask yourself,is this alive or dead?

[eternal_spirit]

Hi ES,:) I notice most people who are at their optimum weight, consider themselves skinny? It's amazing how sitting on my arse in front of the computer for hours on end, makes me FAT!!! ha ha I wish I was skinny right now!!! I have to do a 10 day fast/cleanse, again, and get back to the gym. Susan Schenck has a great book out on RAW Foodism! After her new hubby used to work out 7 days a week!After he went RAW ,he only worked out 3 days a week, and he lost a lot of weight, and gained strength.!!The body treats ALL cooked food as toxic, and stores it in fat. That is why most are overweight and always sick. ES, before you put something in your body, ask yourself,is this alive or dead?
.............

I only do 3 days weights sometimes two, but I walk everywhere and have no woman to cook and help with cleaning:rolleyes:. The theory is the more you do the more calories you burn. I don't drink alcohol either, just Once in a blue moon. I guess it's part genetics to how big you are.

Many meat eaters have that bloated constipated look about them, it's no urban myth.

[eternal_spirit]

I get laughed at for being thin and a for being a veggie, t hurts at times. I wouldn't laugh at the fatties. But All the meat eaters seem to get sick when I don't :) So all is good.

[nickatnoon61]

.............

I only do 3 days weights sometimes two, but I walk everywhere and have no woman to cook and help with cleaning:rolleyes:. The theory is the more you do the more calories you burn. I don't drink alcohol either, just Once in a blue moon. I guess it's part genetics to how big you are.

Many meat eaters have that bloated constipated look about them, it's no urban myth. Yes, I can see it a mile away, also. When I do an extended juice fast, I lose any fat I have on my face,jowls! hen I played hockey, when others half my age, began to fade, I was still going strong. I would have live carrot juices, or wheatgrass before, and ginsing during the game.

I also bicycle everywhere i go, just about! I do everything myself also! I am very versatile and independent. I got my high standards from my German mum,and my good-looks from my Irish father. My humility is my own!!!! ROFL :D

[nickatnoon61]

I get laughed at for being thin and a for being a veggie, t hurts at times. I wouldn't laugh at the fatties. But All the meat eaters seem to get sick when I don't :) So all is good.

You are on a higher level of vibration than the meat-eating fatties, to be sure!!! ;)

[awakensong]

This is in response to the "Rat Poison" article posted on this thread. I am not sure what to make of the differences of opinion between the two articles:

********************/yqen2s (********************/yqen2s)

Vitamin D might be factor in longer life

Analysis of research hints moderate dose lowers risk of death

By Stephanie Desmon | Sun reporter September 11, 2007 Vitamin D is good for your bones, doctors have said for years, but new research suggests that taking a vitamin pill a day might extend your life.

The findings, published yesterday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine, add to the growing medical literature about the benefits of what is sometimes called the "sunshine vitamin" because it is produced by the skin in response to sunlight. Recent studies have linked vitamin D deficiencies to higher risk of cancer, diabetes and multiple sclerosis. It could play a role in reducing heart disease and preventing pre-eclampsia in pregnant women.

"It's very new to see [the effects of] vitamin D on organs different than the bones," said Dr. Philippe Autier, a co-author of the study. "These are very ordinary doses. You don't need four or five pills a day. ...


"You should probably get rid of all the other" vitamins in the medicine cabinet, Autier said by phone from Lyon, France, where he is a researcher at the International Agency for Research on Cancer. "At this point, that's where we are. This is quite real."

Consumers are getting used to being told about new benefits of vitamins.

Yesterday, a team led by Johns Hopkins scientists reported that vitamin C inhibits the growth of some tumors in mice. In recent years, vitamin E, beta-carotene and other antioxidants were praised as having miracle properties but when more research was done, they lost some of their luster. One trial last year showed that patients with neck cancer who received large doses of vitamins C, E and beta carotene experienced fewer side effects of cancer treatments, but in the end they died at twice the rate of those who didn't get vitamins.

Past experience means there "is some need to be cautious" about vitamins, said Edgar Miller, associate professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins and an antioxidant researcher:

"I think there is enough evidence to recommend vitamin D supplements in most women, certainly who are older and have dietary deficiencies. How high a dose? We don't know. Is there a threshold of benefit beyond which there's harm? That's something that needs to be studied."

Still, he said, "everything seems to be lining up very well with vitamin D."

Autier's analysis looked at 18 trials involving vitamin D supplements that included more than 57,000 patients and evaluated doses ranging from 300 international units to 2,000 international units. Most commercially available supplements contain 400 to 600 IU. Over an average of nearly six years, those who took vitamin D had a 7 percent lower risk of death from all causes than those who did not.

Some scientists say more years of study would give better clues as to how large a role vitamin D plays in decreasing mortality. Others point out that while there was a statistically significant 7 percent drop in mortality in Autier's analysis, because of the size of the study that only accounted for a difference of 117 people who died in the control groups as compared with those who took vitamin D supplements.

Some vitamin D researchers believe that as people have spent more and more time indoors, as opposed to the long stretches spent outdoors and uncovered in agrarian times, they have developed serious vitamin D deficiencies. They say levels that are considered normal in the United States are one-fifth of the levels of 10,000 years ago.

Dr. Cedric F. Garland, a cancer prevention specialist at the University of California, San Diego, said some cancers - rare in agrarian times - can be blamed on vitamin D deficiencies, something researchers have just begun to understand in the past few years.

"We just never realized the deficiency was there," he said.

Garland said the link between the sunshine vitamin and cancers can be seen in new data released by the United Nations, which show cancer incidence rates in 177 countries in the world. As you move farther from the Equator, cancer levels rise, he said.

"Sunny latitudes have markedly lower incidences of cancer of the colon, breast, ovary," he said. "It's such a powerful association with both hemispheres. It leaves no other logical explanation."

The most severe vitamin D deficiencies are associated with rickets, a disease that weakens the bones, though it is not common as it was before scientific advances were made in the early 20th century. In 1922, a Johns Hopkins researcher isolated the rickets-fighting compound in cod liver oil, a fairly new treatment at the time, and labeled it vitamin D.

Getting enough vitamin D isn't easy. About 10 minutes in the sun during peak hours - hold the sunscreen - should be more than enough to produce the currently recommended level. But many fear the sun's harmful rays or are stuck behind desks during the heat of the day. African-Americans might need even more exposure, as the pigmentation in their skin makes it harder to process sunlight into vitamin D and leaves them more vulnerable to deficiencies.

Fish, liver and egg yolk are the only foods that naturally contain vitamin D, though some other foods are fortified with it. Still, to get 800 IU of vitamin D from fortified milk you would have to drink two quarts a day.

"It's impossible to get enough in your diet," said Dr. Elizabeth Streeten, an assistant professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who runs the metabolic bone disease program there.

She has long been telling her patients to take 1,000 IU or more daily. And her relatives, too.

Alongside their other gifts, she said. "I've been trying to give bottles of vitamin D to my family for holidays for years."

There is little evidence of vitamin D toxicity at levels under 10,000 IU a day, several said. The upper limit recommended by the National Academy of Sciences is 2,000 IU, and Garland said there might be a push to extend that to 4,000 IU. He expects to see even more good news because the research "is rapidly accelerating."

"It seems like each month or two there's something new that's found," he said.

Dr. Joan Lappe is an osteoporosis researcher at Creighton University in Omaha, Neb. She is studying the effects in 1,200 rural postmenopausal women of calcium and calcium plus vitamin D supplements on osteoporosis-related fractures. In a study published this summer, she and her colleagues found that after four years, those who took calcium and vitamin D had a 60 percent lower risk of developing cancer, compared with the placebo group. The calcium-only group had a 47 percent reduced risk.

Most studies have been done in older women, often unhealthy women. Lappe said she wants to see further studies - in men, in younger people - but right now, she thinks the "data strongly suggest vitamin D [is helpful] in preventing cancer."

"It's such a simple thing," she said. "Imagine taking a vitamin to prevent cancer. It's almost too good to be true."

stephanie.desmon@baltsun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/about/bal-reporterfeedback,0,4526743.htmlstory?recipient=ste phanie.desmon@baltsun.com)

[lilly555]

Lilly, try going without dairy and meat for 30 days. After 2 weeks, you will be getting over the addiction to hormones and other "goodies" in the meat. After that you will start feeling more energetic, day by day!!! Go to Gabriel Cousen's Tree Of Life website, and read about the amazing recoveries from serious mental illnesses, ALL CAUSED BY CONSUMING MEAT! ALL MEAT!!!!

I can't do it because I am too addicted. :(

[chris]

...............

What do you eat and where do you get it from? the organic stuff you pick straight from the source.....

I go out for a walk in my town and there are plenty of fruit trees about. I have this favourite apple tree which I am very possessive about and defend it with my nunchucks should any passer by looks at it funny. Really delicious, sweet, tangy apples...They don't get these kinds of apples in the stores because the apples that supermarkets use are only ones that can survive the transportation, there are many viarities that are much better but can't take the ruffage so people don't even know about them.

[celtic isis]

SAD diet=Standard American Diet= CRAP . It is obvious you know little about a living foods diet. I have been studying this for over 25 years, and I KNOW from EXPERIENCE, what is good for me, by my energy levels! The so-called EXPERTS are LIARS, with their mumbo-jumbo data and statistics!!!! Some know from intuition/common-sense, and most don't have a clue, get sick, and die an early death! Ces't le vie!!!
:p

nicky knows his stuff! and he's speaks french too don't mess with my nickypoo K! :D
and soya is good! if it's choccy flavoured...also tofu is good, ever had tofu burger with cheese, they are soooo good! i love being veggie! :D

[celtic isis]

'What the government doesn't want you to know about milk. We know it contains fat and cholesterol, but did you know it contains the protein CASEIN (which is basically a glue which leads to a lot of mucous build up and other health problems like asthma and congestion), milk also contains ... powerful growth hormones, viruses, a host of deadly chemical and biological bacterial agents, bovine proteins that cause allergies, insecticides, antibiotics, all this can trigger the growth of cancer and contributes to today's problem of obese children (ever notice why young girls breasts develop faster?).'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYpafipJyDE

i agree chatt - i've since given up milk cause it was giving me terrible stomach acid. :( i didn't know it was Casein that forms mucous build up.


i still drink it in the morning just on cereal, haven't made the switch fully to soya yet lol

i tell ya soya is much improved nowadays! at least in france it is! yay!

[awakensong]

I'd just like to caution that while some people can digest soy just fine, others cannot and have been very harmed from it. When I transitioned off of milk, I thought soy would be a very good substitute, but that was very wrong for my own case. It has torn up my digestive tract very badly and I'm still recovering. It was even supposed to be right for my blood type, but I saw that many others of the same blood type had posted on a related message board that soy had done the same to them. I've learned there are a great deal of chemicals involved in the processing of soy into food, and that it's original purpose was for industrial use only.

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/soya.htm
.....It added: 'There exists a significant body of animal data that demonstrates goitrogenic [effect on the thyroid gland] and even carcinogenic effects of soy products.'

Sheehan was particularly concerned about the increasing number of babies been weaned on soya infant formula. 'We are doing a large uncontrolled and unmonitored experiment on human infants,' he said.....

Doerge suggested speaking to another expert Dr Bill Helferich, a professor of food at the University of Illinois who has discovered a possible link between the growth of certain breast cancer tumours that require oestrogen and the chemicals found in soya.

Helferich was unwilling to comment on whether a woman at risk of such a cancer should stop eating soya products. But, when asked what the health implications were of increasing amounts of soya in the Western diet, he told OFM : 'It's like roulette. We just don't know.'

It is not just across the Atlantic that the increased consumption of soya has concerned authorities. In Britain, the Food Standards Agency commissioned a report from its Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food to look at the issue. Published in May 2003, and titled Phytoestrogens and Health, the cover of this 400-page tome is illustrated with a soya plant.

In its introduction the report states: 'In 1940 adverse effects on fertility were observed in animals that had been grazing on phytoestrogen-rich plants. In the early 1980s it became clear that phytoestrogens could produce biological effects in humans.' .....

There are many articles on Soy at Dr. Mercola's site:
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm

Why Soy Can Damage Your Health

Newest Research On Why You Should Avoid Soy (http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm) - by Sally Fallon & Mary G. Enig, Ph.D. - What was once a minor crop, listed in the 1913 US Department of Agriculture (USDA) handbook not as a food but as an industrial product, now covers 72 million acres of American farmland.
Soy May Cause Cancer and Brain Damage (http://www.mercola.com/2000/aug/20/soy_dangers.htm) - Two senior US government scientists have revealed that chemicals in soy could increase the risk of breast cancer in women, brain damage in both men and women, and abnormalities in infants.
The Trouble With Tofu: Soy and the Brain (http://www.mercola.com/2000/sep/17/soy_brain.htm) -by John D. MacArthur - "Tofu Shrinks Brain!" Not a science fiction scenario, this sobering soybean revelation is for real. But how did the "poster bean" of the '90s go wrong? Apparently, in many ways -- none of which bode well for the brain.
Soy: Too Good to be True (http://www.mercola.com/2000/feb/13/more_on_soy.htm) - by Brandon Finucan & Charlotte Gerson - While even in 1966 there was considerable research on the harmful substances within soybeans, you'll be hard pressed to find articles today that claim soy is anything short of a miracle-food. As soy gains more and more popularity through industry advertising, we are moved once again to raise our voice of concern.
Learn The Truth About The Historical Use Of Soy (http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/truth_about_soy.htm) - Just How Much Soy Did Asians Eat? In short, not that much, and contrary to what the industry may claim, soy has never been a staple in Asia. A study of the history of soy use in Asia shows that the poor used it during times of extreme food shortage, and only when the soybeans were carefully prepared (e.g. by lengthy fermentation) to destroy the soy toxins. Yes, the Asians understood soy all right!
High Soy Diet During Pregnancy And Nursing May Cause Developmental Changes In Children (http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/soy_and_children.htm) - Two separate studies -- one in animals and the other in humans, suggest that a diet high in soybeans and other legumes during pregnancy and breastfeeding may have a subtle but long-term impact on the development of children.
Concerns Regarding Soybeans (http://www.mercola.com/1997/archive/soybean_concerns.htm) - Some good information abstracted from an article written by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig, Ph.D. for Health Freedom News in September of 1995.
Soy Can Cause Severe Allergic Reactions (http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/soy_can_cause_allergic_reaction.htm) - Soy, like its botanically-related cousin the peanut, could be responsible for severe, potentially fatal, cases of food allergy, particularly in children with asthma who are also very sensitive to peanuts.
Soy Supplements Fail to Help Menopause Symptoms (http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/soy_fails_to_help_menapause.htm) - Supplements that contain concentrated phytoestrogens -- plant-based estrogens found in soy -- do not appear to improve mood, memory or menopause symptoms in women over age 45.
20/20 Feature on the Dangers of Soy (http://www.mercola.com/2000/jun/10/soy_dangers.htm) - The ABC television news program 20/20 aired a feature story Friday June 8, 2000 on the dangers of soy.
Soy Formulas and the Effects of Isoflavones on the Thyroid (http://www.mercola.com/2000/feb/13/soy_thyroid_disease.htm) - Environmental scientist and long-time campaigner against soy-based infant formulas, Dr Mike Fitzpatrick, warns about the risk of thyroid disease in infants fed soy formulas, high soy consumers and users of isoflavone supplements.
Pregnant Women Should Not Eat Soy Products (http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/pregnant_should_not_eat_soy.htm) - In-utero exposure to genistein increases the incidence of breast tumors.
Soybean Crisis (http://www.mercola.com/2000/oct/8/soy_crisis.htm) - Jane Phillimore of The Observer addresses some of the concerns raised by new research about the safety of soy.
Response To Those Who Believe Soy Is Healthy (http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm) - In a recent Letter to the Editor of the Townsend Letter, Sally Fallon and Dr. Mary Enig make the case that soy is not the health food that it is claimed to be. The soy campaign is, in fact, a case study in the use of propaganda to promote commercial interests, they allege.
Soy Can Lead to Kidney Stones (http://www.mercola.com/2001/oct/27/soy_kidney_stones.htm) - Those who are prone to the painful condition known as kidney stones may become more vulnerable to it through the consumption of soy.
Chemical in Soybeans Causes Sexual Dysfunction in Male Rats (http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/26/soybeans.htm) - Exposure to genistein, a chemical found in soybeans, led to abnormal reproductive organs and sexual dysfunction in rats. Take a hint and avoid all but fermented soy products if you want to decrease your chances of having fertility problems.
Experts Dispute JAMA Soy Infant Formula Study (http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/15/soy_formula.htm) - The results of study on soy formula are being disputed for several reasons, including the omission of negative findings regarding the product.
Soy Milk Is Safe! That Is What the Formula Industry Says (http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/25/soy_milk.htm) - A biased study funded by the formula industry attempts to polish the image of their product. Don't be deceived though, as soy formula remains one of the worst foods you can feed your child.
Australian Pediatric Soy Protein Formula Policy (http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/22/soy_protein_formula_policy.htm) - Read about the abundance of reasons why conventional milk infant formula is preferred over soy formula, as well as the dangers of feeding soy formulas to infants.
Soy Baby Formula Linked to Behavioral Problems (http://www.mercola.com/2002/oct/26/soy_formula.htm) - Elevated levels of manganese in soy infant formula may be related to attention-related disorders.
How Safe is Soy Infant Formula? (http://www.mercola.com/2001/jun/13/soy_formula.htm) - New research suggests high concentrations of manganese found in soybean-based baby formula can lead to brain damage in infants and altered behaviors in adolescents.
Soy Formula Exposes Infants To High Hormone Levels (http://www.mercola.com/1997/archive/soy_formula.htm) - The daily exposure of infants to phyto-estrogens (chemicals that possess wide ranges of hormonal and non-hormonal activities) who consume soy formulas was 6-11 times higher than adults consuming soy foods.
Soy Weakens Your Immune System (http://www.mercola.com/2002/jun/8/soy.htm) - There is one thing that is quite clear, soy formula should never be administered to an infant. Find out why.
Soy Milk is Gaining Popularity in America (http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/29/soy_milk.htm) - Soy milk, once a niche market, is now making its way into mainstream America. Find out why soy is not the health food it is promoted to be.

Links to More Information on Soy
Soy Online Service (http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/) - "Uncovering the truth about soy"
Institute of Food Research (http://www.ifrn.bbsrc.ac.uk/public/FoodInfoSheets/soya.html) - Information sheet on soy.

[chris]

Thanks awaken, I've said it about 5 times already on this thread but hey ho...

Put it another way, meat are the republicans, soya are the democrats.

Rainforest is being cut down thanks to the rise in soya demand, they cut down loads of wildlife and replace it with toxic crap. Also the animals raised feed mostly off soya because it's shit.

There is no fucking substitute, get it through your heads, you've gotta sacrifice!

Calcium is overrated and it simply pushed by milk and dairy because it says it creates strong bones, it does help but there are many thousands if not millions of other chemicals that also create bones, same with muscle and everything else. They just overrate these chemicals so they can dump a load of it into a bottle and sell it to you at crazy prices. The best way to get as many nutrients as possible is to stop taking antinutrients and inhibitors and then just live a natural diet and its easy from there, no need to dip into your fish pond everyday or get expensive superfoods, all easy, cheap and natural.

[awakensong]

Chris, it's true there is no substitute, and there is also no "remedy" for violating the laws of life; i.e., proper diet and lifestyle.

Why would a "Creator" or "Nature" have laws to follow in order to maintain health and vitality, but allow them to be broken and then give "cures"? That almost seems like being rewarded for breaking the rules. From all the groups I have been and am currently on about chronic illness, it seems most sick people are waiting for medical science to cure them with a pill, and the only thing a drug will do is mask a symptom while creating another ailment. Processed and packaged foods are the equivalent of drugs, in my opinion.

[i am all i am]

Chris, it's true there is no substitute, and there is also no "remedy" for violating the laws of life; i.e., proper diet and lifestyle.

Why would a "Creator" or "Nature" have laws to follow in order to maintain health and vitality, but allow them to be broken and then give "cures"? That almost seems like being rewarded for breaking the rules. From all the groups I have been and am currently on about chronic illness, it seems most sick people are waiting for medical science to cure them with a pill, and the only thing a drug will do is mask a symptom while creating another ailment. Processed and packaged foods are the equivalent of drugs, in my opinion.

I LOVE YOU.

G'day Awakensong.

Well said. If man merely ate directly from nature without fucking with it in some vain attempt at improving it, then we would see an enormous difference in the health of everyone.

For everyone here reading this, see if you can alter the way that you eat to not include anything that has a number in it. Free yourself from the chemical shit that is put into foods and you will free yourself from dis-ease.

THANK YOU.



http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S34.gif With LOVE http://www.lifeshore.com/smiley/data/media/3/3D_emoticon_S36.gif

[nickatnoon61]

Thanks awaken, I've said it about 5 times already on this thread but hey ho...

Put it another way, meat are the republicans, soya are the democrats.

Rainforest is being cut down thanks to the rise in soya demand, they cut down loads of wildlife and replace it with toxic crap. Also the animals raised feed mostly off soya because it's shit.

There is no fucking substitute, get it through your heads, you've gotta sacrifice!

Calcium is overrated and it simply pushed by milk and dairy because it says it creates strong bones, it does help but there are many thousands if not millions of other chemicals that also create bones, same with muscle and everything else. They just overrate these chemicals so they can dump a load of it into a bottle and sell it to you at crazy prices. The best way to get as many nutrients as possible is to stop taking antinutrients and inhibitors and then just live a natural diet and its easy from there, no need to dip into your fish pond everyday or get expensive superfoods, all easy, cheap and natural. Hi Chris, don't tell the babies they can't have their milk!!! :eek:They will string you up!!! ha ha Milk is PASTEURIZED,which means it has no lifeforce left in it .It is dead food, and it has been documented that those who drink it, have LESS calcium than those who don't! I use Rice Milk for most smoothies. Soy milk is mostly GMO!!! Sometime I make my own sesame/almond milk from scratch.

[nickatnoon61]

Chris, it's true there is no substitute, and there is also no "remedy" for violating the laws of life; i.e., proper diet and lifestyle.

Why would a "Creator" or "Nature" have laws to follow in order to maintain health and vitality, but allow them to be broken and then give "cures"? That almost seems like being rewarded for breaking the rules. From all the groups I have been and am currently on about chronic illness, it seems most sick people are waiting for medical science to cure them with a pill, and the only thing a drug will do is mask a symptom while creating another ailment. Processed and packaged foods are the equivalent of drugs, in my opinion.

VERY WISE COMMENTS,AWAKENSONG!!!!:)

[awakensong]

Nick, would you be willing to share your sesame/almond milk recipe here? I'm interested! :D

[megafish33]

...and it truly is sad. I'd like to point out though, that this isn't the same diet the USDA and other agencies promote, it's just the one most Americans eat. Even following the flawed USDA MyPyramid outlines(based on you age, height, weight, and weekly physical activities performed) is vastly superior to the so called standard American diet which mostly consists of trans-fat, enriched flours, and ultra-pasteurized and homogenized dairy as well as grain fed(grain fattened) animals. This provides a toxic artificial fat that isn't easily converted into energy, so it lingers around, over production of insulin due to high glycemic index and glycemic load sugars at the wrong times/every meal, and second generation starch that has already been converted into saturated fat in the animals that are consumed. All of this is cancer promoting on top of that. Oh and I almost forgot... overconsumption of sodium...

Here is the USDA "MyPyramid" site. (http://www.mypyramid.gov/) The info isn't actually all that bad, Americans can do a lot worse. I would ignore their "make half your grains whole" idea though. This implies that the other half of your grain intake should be from refined flours. Make most of your grains whole, and use flour products only here and there. Also, they tend to place saturated fats next to trans-fats. I think this is a bit over board. Same with cholesterol. Foods like eggs, shrimp, prawns, and salmon carry those nutrients, and they can all be part of a balanced diet if you choose to eat animal products.

Here is a better one. Scroll down a little. (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html)

I personally follow a high fat diet because I'm pretty active most of the year. I know oils are technically a processed food, since you don't find them in nature just flowing from some plant, nut, and fish oil river, but I use them a lot. Monounsaturated fats are fantastic for me.


Milk is also not found in nature, although any peoples have used clean raw animal milk to feed their populations for thousands of years. More and more brands I find use a lower heating pasteurization method(and still other brands let the creme rise to the top) which retains more nutrients than the ultra-pasteurized and homogenized stuff. I buy a creme top milk from cows that are relaxed, eat green pasture by the coast when it's sunny, and organic fortified grain mix when it's too cold and wet for them to be out. The feed mix includes flax, a bit of corn, wheat, non-GMO soy, rice bran, alfalfa hay, and silage(cut while green and naturally fermented to retain its high nutritive/enzymatic value over time). They are happy cows and give milk freely. This farm also has a creme top non-homogenized 1% low-fat milk for those low calorie days. The only one I've found so far...

[eternal_spirit]

If soya is mostly GM, what's the best source of protein ( veggie) ? Too build muscle?

[awakensong]

If soya is mostly GM, what's the best source of protein ( veggie) ? Too build muscle?
I'm probably not the best one to give you that answer, but I can tell you I've read so much recently that refutes the amount of protein we have been told we need. It could be half or even less than that. However, the younger and more active a person is, the more their requirement for protein.

As for muscle-building, that is an individual choice, of course, and this is not a personal judgement from me. I have read, however, that building 'extra' muscle is unnatural and is considered in natural health circles to be "pathological". We don't see animals in their natural habitat who lift weights and get "buffed" or "pumped". The major consensus of opinion in these circles is that man is not intended to do so, either. I have no idea why or how it ever came to this for our species, but knowing how competitive we are as homo sapiens sapiens, that could well be the source of it.

[eternal_spirit]

I'm probably not the best one to give you that answer, but I can tell you I've read so much recently that refutes the amount of protein we have been told we need. It could be half or even less than that. However, the younger and more active a person is, the more their requirement for protein.

As for muscle-building, that is an individual choice, of course, and this is not a personal judgement from me. I have read, however, that building 'extra' muscle is unnatural and is considered in natural health circles to be "pathological". We don't see animals in their natural habitat who lift weights and get "buffed" or "pumped". The major consensus of opinion in these circles is that man is not intended to do so, either. I have no idea why or how it ever came to this for our species, but knowing how competitive we are as homo sapiens sapiens, that could well be the source of it.

...........

Yes look at nature say a pack of wolves.......they are all more or less the same shape and size.
I don't wan't to be a body building champion, just have eaten a fair amount of soya over the years and need an alternative, I do lift weights don't drive a car and that plus exercising, smoking, no alcohol means I have a high/fast metabolism. I can easily eat enough for two people and not put on any extra weight.

I have heard the thinner you are the healthier you're heart is and other health benefits too.

I am all I am provided some links about vegan/veggie bodybuilders maybe I'll find some answers there.

[awakensong]

...........

I have heard the thinner you are the healthier you're heart is and other health benefits too.

The only problem with being "too" thin is it puts the person at an increased risk for bone loss. That is the one big problem in being underweight.

[eternal_spirit]

The only problem with being "too" thin is it puts the person at an increased risk for bone loss. That is the one big problem in being underweight.
........

Yes I know, but doing weight training makes you're bones grow bigger and stronger. I'm a bony beggar.

[megafish33]

As for muscle-building, that is an individual choice, of course, and this is not a personal judgement from me. I have read, however, that building 'extra' muscle is unnatural and is considered in natural health circles to be "pathological". We don't see animals in their natural habitat who lift weights and get "buffed" or "pumped". The major consensus of opinion in these circles is that man is not intended to do so, either. I have no idea why or how it ever came to this for our species, but knowing how competitive we are as homo sapiens sapiens, that could well be the source of it.

You're correct awakensong, but I'd also like to add: Humans in more developed nations are doing a lot less physical activities than they used to, so their muscles are not only smaller in size, but less efficient, than they could be. I can see how one can be turned off to athletics by looking at some of the freaks in the body building industry. But just remember, you don't have to make it your life and spend all day in the gym. You don't have to get "pumped" but your cells do change regularly. Armed with this knowledge, why not incorporate lifestyle changes to make sure your muscles are stronger, more efficient, and better looking aesthetically? If your body is a temple, take care of it and it'll take care of you. Strong muscles take up less space than adipose tissue fat and make your body more efficent at burning fat into glucose and storing it into muscle tissue as glycogen. This is something the bodies of many people in developed nations can not do, in fact their bodies, trained from not doing much of anything, do the exact opposite.

ES: Take heart! There are quite a few popular figures in sports and body building that have vegetarian diets, some even have vegan, and raw vegan diets. It can be done but it'll take will power. If you want to add weight make sure there is a caloric surplus. I don't really use any veggie protein products so I can't directly answer your question. Find protein mix supplements from nut, seed, and greens sources. Have something with a lot of energy density after a workout. Try insulin spiking carbohydrate/starch rich foods with protein. Just don't make them the staple of your diet. Oatmeal with flaxseed and fruit? Goji Berries have a good amino acid profile, and their a fruit! Add them to such a meal after your workouts. Quinoa is a grain that's packed with protein. I like this (http://www.edenfoods.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=22_37&products_id=106900) one. If it's cold maybe a warm soup with peas and legumes? Yams, corn, and sweet potatoes are all pretty good. Just make sure you get a good workout in, the muscle fibers must be torn enough to have then rebuilt stronger and bigger. And remember to eat more if you want to weight more. Otherwise you'll just look the same. Good luck!

[nickatnoon61]

If soya is mostly GM, what's the best source of protein ( veggie) ? Too build muscle?

ES, if you eat living foods, you will not have to worry about protein or any other essential ingredient. I read in a RAW foods book,"The 12 Steps To Raw Food" that a kid goes snowboarding and only takes 2 oranges, one orange, which he eats before and one orange for after! All the rest of the kids are stuffing themselves all day and are always hungry, because they are eating DEAD food!!!!!

[nickatnoon61]

I have no idea why or how it ever came to this for our species, but knowing how competitive we are as homo sapiens sapiens, that could well be the source of it. AWS, Competition is a learned negative behavior. Co-operation and love are natural traits of "Homo Sapiens". Competition keeps us in the dog-eat-dog existence, cooperation breeds unity and strength! Of course the mainstream/controllers teach competition as being a healthy trait, and what have they gained from that??? JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING...is all!

[megafish33]

AWS, Competition is a learned negative behavior. Co-operation and love are natural traits of "Homo Sapiens".

Oh boy Nick, I think I can partially agree with you on something. ;)

Progress no? :)

If you guys read your history you'll note that the most successful empires of old that absorbed a large variety of cultures and peoples where the tolerant and cooperative kind. Of course the empires were also successful because of a lot of other negative things, but we should study what they did well morally, so has to build a better future for ourselves and our children.

[nickatnoon61]

........

Yes I know, but doing weight training makes you're bones grow bigger and stronger. I'm a bony beggar. A Bony BEGGAR???? :eek:DO YOU LIVE IN BANGLADeSCH????? HA HA :D Can I call you BB from now on?????

[nickatnoon61]

nicky knows his stuff! and he's speaks french too don't mess with my nickypoo K! :D
and soya is good! if it's choccy flavoured...also tofu is good, ever had tofu burger with cheese, they are soooo good! i love being veggie! :D
Celtic,:) what in God's name ,are you doing to that sheep??????:eek:

[nickatnoon61]

LOL

Ok, please listen to me...I am entitled to my opinions, and entitled to post them on this forum. I am not automatically taking the opposing view - look through some of my other posts and you will confirm that I have agreed with some of what is written.

Studies you have read my indicate to you that dairy is bad. Not eating it is your choice, as is mine to eat it, and defend it.

I'm not here for an argument but maybe you want to chase me away?

Not going to happen.

The original point made was that the government hide information on casein when they don't. I made my own point about how (if at all) we're able to fathom what we are meant to eat/do, etc.. adimon eat lots of cheese and drink lots of milk. Also salty beef is great, and good for you! Eat what you want whenever you want, and don't worry about the negative domino effect it has, on the planet!!! I want to put you in the Baseball Hall of Fame, because so far, you are batting 1000!!!!:eek:

[nickatnoon61]

Nick, would you be willing to share your sesame/almond milk recipe here? I'm interested! :D Hi AWS,You must think I am Martha Stewart or somethin'!!! :D blend the seeds in lukewarm water,. Strain it, add raw honey or a natural sweetener to taste Also for non-dairy banana ice-cream, etc. http://www.rawfoodsbible.com/index.php?page=ch8/desserts There are so many varied and creative "alternative" ways to prepare living food!!!! :)

[eternal_spirit]

Thanks for the info people. I gave up drinking milk years ago. Used to get a lot of mucus and had to cough it up and spit it out Doctors said it was smoking. I used to drink a pint of milk for breakfast sometimes with two raw eggs mixed in yuk! Why? because I read it in a body building book:rolleyes:

Anyway when I quit the milk the mucus quit. So it wasn't the smoking but the milk.

[eternal_spirit]

A Bony BEGGAR???? :eek:DO YOU LIVE IN BANGLADeSCH????? HA HA :D Can I call you BB from now on?????
..........

LOL I've fallen out of trees, crashed motorbikes, some have trid to break my bones..etc never broke one bone. I've known others fall off a bicycle and break a bone. I don't wan't to look like Arnie Shwars just slim and toned , that's what I am, I could run away if some big ape tried to do me in.

[tothestars]

i sometimes drink milk made of oats (the one which have cacao added to it) and it is really good. Healthier as well if u ask me.

[auron]

I'm never touching milk of cheese ever again after reading this thread! :eek:

The 16/09/07 i made that post. Ever since, i haven't touched any dairy products whatsoever.

My body is feeling so much better, and my ability to think clearly has increased.

I can't even look at milk now without feeling sick!

Manky stuff indeed!! :)

Thanks for all the links everyone!

[nickatnoon61]

The 16/09/07 i made that post. Ever since, i haven't touched any dairy products whatsoever.

My body is feeling so much better, and my ability to think clearly has increased.

I can't even look at milk now without feeling sick!

Manky stuff indeed!! :)

Thanks for all the links everyone!

GOOD ON YA auron!!!! :)You are one in a million!!! Most people just ignore and keep on their path to ill health, by following their addictions instead of common sense and morality/ethics!!!!:eek: You have probably noticed your sense of smell has improved from the lack of so much mucus,also!?!

[nickatnoon61]

..........

LOL I've fallen out of trees, crashed motorbikes, some have trid to break my bones..etc never broke one bone. I've known others fall off a bicycle and break a bone. I don't wan't to look like Arnie Shwars just slim and toned , that's what I am, I could run away if some big ape tried to do me in.

ES,well said!!! :)

[revelations]

I found out about the crap that is in milk a few months ago, up until then I used to drink at least 1 pint of milk a day.

[nickatnoon61]

I found out about the crap that is in milk a few months ago, up until then I used to drink at least 1 pint of milk a day.
Revelation,milk is for babies!:eek: R U a Babe???ha ha Cow's milk is for baby cows.I know,I am too simplistic, at times, but it works for me! cheers....:)

[chattanova]

Consumers Lose Right To Know Milk Is rBGH (Hormone) Free

http://ga3.org/campaign/PA_rBGH?rk=J7wBVR6qbPOOW

[shellygurrrl]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. Eat right for your blood type? Maybe it's a fad. I don't know. But dairy does fine with my system. I like it. I do use vanilla soy milk for my cereal though. Mainly, I get dairy from cheese.

[shellygurrrl]

AWS, Competition is a learned negative behavior. Co-operation and love are natural traits of "Homo Sapiens". Competition keeps us in the dog-eat-dog existence, cooperation breeds unity and strength! Of course the mainstream/controllers teach competition as being a healthy trait, and what have they gained from that??? JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING...is all!
What you said is interesting. I've never gotten into the whole "competitive" thing myself. I don't feel it. Some people are so pumped for that "rah rah" shit.

[shellygurrrl]

Hi ES,:) I notice most people who are at their optimum weight, consider themselves skinny? It's amazing how sitting on my arse in front of the computer for hours on end, makes me FAT!!! ha ha I wish I was skinny right now!!! I have to do a 10 day fast/cleanse, again, and get back to the gym. Susan Schenck has a great book out on RAW Foodism! After her new hubby used to work out 7 days a week!After he went RAW ,he only worked out 3 days a week, and he lost a lot of weight, and gained strength.!!The body treats ALL cooked food as toxic, and stores it in fat. That is why most are overweight and always sick. ES, before you put something in your body, ask yourself,is this alive or dead?

That's an interesting idea. Good stuff.

[nickatnoon61]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. Eat right for your blood type? Maybe it's a fad. I don't know. But dairy does fine with my system. I like it. I do use vanilla soy milk for my cereal though. Mainly, I get dairy from cheese.
Eat right for your blood type?
Shellygurrl,meaning how much Reptilian blood/dna do we possess??? HAVE U HAD YOUR RED MEAT/BLOOD TODAY...COUNT DRACULA?????? :eek: Howzabout "Eat Right For Your Conscience"????? Once you try going vegan/RAW, you will never go back to meat,dairy/phlemn again!!! :eek: Boy, I sure miss those squirrel hunts, tho!!!! kidding of course!!! :D
I used to eat a lot of cheese also, mostly with my wHine!!! :D I have been vegan now since last March. I don't miss the cheese at all, and I am less plugged up without the extra mucus, with more ENERGY!!!

[nickatnoon61]

That's an interesting idea. Good stuff.

Thanx SG. :) How far do you want to raise your vibration???? If you want to be in a lower vibe, eat dead animal flesh,and dairy products! If not, STOP doing it!!!Dairy cows are also tortured and slaughtered! GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT!!!!

[astral_girl]

i find this very interesting

my son is dx autistic spectrum disorder

i recently went to a asd help group where they had a speaker called paul shattock-who works and has done research for autism research center sunderland

he went on to say how removing casien and gluten from diet can help alot with children who are on the spectrum

he was very upfront and remarked on the mmr ect ...he has a website..

i got to ask him some questions-i asked about the anaglam filling s-silver ones with the mecury in -he totally agreed that i should not let my kids have them sort of fillings.
heres some print about what he says....

. Casein Removal

The effects of removing dairy produce are usually seen quite rapidly. Depending upon the age of the participant, our best guess suggests that it could be 2-3 days (in young children) or 10-14 days in adults when effects, if they are going to occur, are normally seem. We suggest that a three-week trial is appropriate in the first instant. Lucarelli (1995) felt that approximately one two-thirds of participants in their trial showed benefits from this intervention taken alone and, although we have no firm data to support this view, our experience would suggest that this is probably correct. Of course, there could be a period where side effects are seen but by the end of the third week the situation should be clear.

Any withdrawal effects are of comparatively short duration but can be quite severe especially in young or small children. This is another reason why we prefer to separate the removal of the two elements, gluten and casein, during this protocol.

We have also observed that many higher functioning children have voluntarily removed dairy produce from their diet prior to any suggestion of casein withdrawal. Since the relevant peaks found in urinary profiles disappear quite rapidly following casein removal, it is highly likely that subjects will be in a position to detect the difference that abstinence from dairy produce makes. Many people with Asperger Syndrome, for example, complain of being confused or having difficulty in concentrating when drinking milk. Many such people shun milk but will rationalise this avoidance in terms of "hating milk" or finding it "slimy". On the other hand, some children are clearly addicted to milk and will drink what are generally considered to be very large quantities. A three-year-old child, for example, who drinks 5 pints of milk a day, is by no means untypical of this group. Cultures based upon Western European principles are brought up with the idea that milk is a wonderful and indispensable element of diet. Health visitors, nurses, dietitians and orthodox medical practitioners are not easily convinced that bovine milk is not designed for human beings and that its consumption is, in some cases, inappropriate and undesirable. It has been recorded that there is an increased incidence of autism amongst the immigrant population in Sweden (Gillberg, 1996) when compared to the indigenous population. There are a number of possible theoretical explanations but one must involve the utilisation of diets for which subjects are not genetically equipped in terms of enzyme complement or metabolic processing ability. The absence of lactase enzymes in some subjects of African origins and the disappearance of enzymes, which break down casein from subjects of Chinese origin in their early teens, are examples of such phenomena.

We have been very impressed by the number of parents, who have taken the initiative, to remove dairy produce from the diet. Clearly, these parents have intuitively realised that something is wrong with their child's reaction to milk. Projectile vomiting of (cow) milk; eczema, particularly behind the knees and in the crook of the elbow; strange white bumps under the skin; an early history of ear discharges and infections possibly requiring the fitting of grommets (tubes); very early onset of constipation and/or diarrhoea and respiratory disorders resembling asthma may all be taken as signs of a problem with casein.

A "review" of the situation after three weeks of casein removal is appropriate. Clearly, in those situations where improvements are apparent this intervention may be continued. Where improvements are not seen it is difficult to justify the continued removal; but most parents feel that the difficulties inherent in this form of intervention are not so severe that they cannot continue with it. This must be a matter of personal choice. Since the removal of dairy produce is comparatively simple, it serves also to provide parents with the opportunity to prepare themselves for the rigours of gluten removal. Of course, there are many people who prefer to remove both gluten and casein simultaneously and that is fine but we would still strongly advocate separating the elements particularly where children under 4 years of age are involved because of the potential severity of the withdrawal effects. However, we would still suggest a test of the role of milk be performed soon after the implementation of such a diet (casein challenge).



2. Gluten Removal

As previously stated, gluten removal requires the removal of the proteins (prolamins) from a number of cereals; especially wheat, barley, rye and oats (oats remains under investigation due to slight structural differences in proteins). Given the modern Western diet and its dependence upon cereals this is not an easy task; but most do seem to accomplish it without undue difficulty. The peaks in the urinary profiles which we (correctly or incorrectly) ascribe to gluten persist for much longer that the casomorphins. In our trial (Whiteley et al, 1999) there had only been a 26% reduction in urinary levels of specific compounds (thought to be related to gluten) after a 5-month period. This is possibly explicable in terms of such compounds being stored in body tissues (assuming full compliance with the diet). If the body is incapable of breaking these peptides down which it has absorbed it must do something with those it produces during digestion. It cannot break them down and the mechanisms for dumping them in the urine are (we speculate) swamped by the sheer quantity of the materials. As in other instances, the body has little option but to store them probably in fat tissues. When dietary sources are removed these stores are depleted as rapidly as possible but as the child/person becomes older, the quantities stored will, in absolute terms, be larger and the time required for their removal will be correspondingly longer.

For this reason, it is very rare for gluten to have been spotted as causing offence in the way that milk frequently has either by the parent or by the person primarily affected. There is almost always a degree of craving for gluten products and we are aware of only few with autism spectrum disorders who have refused gluten-containing products in the same way that milk and dairy produce is avoided. It is strange that we are so hooked onto what is essentially the seed from an obscure type of grass. It could be that this production of opioid substances is an element in its acceptance as a staple diet throughout so much of the world.

Although it can and does happen, gluten removal does not normally result in immediate, dramatic effects. Except in very young children, where results are seen more rapidly, we normally expect to see changes in 3-4 weeks so we suggest that people consider removal for a period of three months. After this time it is appropriate to review progress. We are aware of a number of cases where dramatic improvements have occurred 7-9 months after initiating the diet and in one case (Reichelt – Personal communication) these improvements became apparent after two years of rigid dietary intervention (obviously we cannot discount other effects in such a long time frame). As previously stated, the disappearance of the compounds related to gluten appears to be more gradual than with the casein-derived peptides. Therefore, the withdrawal effects tend to be somewhat milder in severity but rather more prolonged particularly in adults.

The Norwegian studies have been going on for the longest period of time (Knivsberg et al, 1995). They have always proposed removal of gluten as well as casein. Interestingly, they observed a phenomenon that we had also noted in participants who used this approach where the casein and gluten are removed simultaneously. There is an initial rapid withdrawal period and improvement. This tends to be followed by a period where not much happens at all and parents often begin to wonder if their initial improvement observations were a result of self-delusion. After a further period of time, other improvements appear, sometimes after a second set of withdrawal symptoms. We believe that this biphasic pattern is due to the sequential effects of casein and then gluten removal from the diet.



Stage B "Assessment of Problems

[magicmerlin]

Very interesting - is milk inherently bad, or is processing/production the issue I wonder? I ask this because I agree that milk is an allergen (brings me out in spots) however there are well know African tribes who live on raw milk and full fat cream......guess what, no heart disease etc. When the fat in milk is processed, it becomes dangerous.

I take whey protein and have no reaction to it because it has none of the casein and lactose (plus it's an immune booster).

[astral_girl]

heres the link for the website

http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/durham2.htm#sunderlandprotocol

[fransetter]

Has anyone tried raw unpasturised milk? I have read lots, particularly on Dr. Mercola's website that it is bounding with enzymes, good bacteria, and many other interesting goodies which boost the immune system and do a whole lot of other things which can help cure auto-immune diseases.

I am trying it out for the first time later this week when my organic box arrives.

[2tuff]

What we need to be careful of is demonising all the foods which have made us survive this long. Now remember how the Sovereign Military Order of Malta in control of the Club of Rome, wish to depopulate the Earth. So what they do is teach many lies and twist information so that people think their doing good for themselves when infact their not. I've been all through it for so long and done almost everything out there. I now see much of it as bunkum.

The problem with Milk is not Milk itself but the processes it goes through after it's removed from the Cow. Of course with non-organic milk the Cow is loaded with Chemicals, antibiotics and growth hormones so your in a mess straight away there. Anyhow you should be aware that Raw Milk apparently doesn't make you acidic unlike Pasteurised poison. Raw Milk has it's own powerful immune system whilst Pasteurised poison doesn't. You can add various bacteria and raw milk will KILL IT whilst the poison will NOT. Just look at these many tribespeoples who live off milk from animals and they do not use pasteurisation. So alas don't demonise quality foods when it's simply the modern techniques PURPOSELY acted for depopulation and profiting of the Pharmaceutical companies. Who controls the Pharmaceutical cartel? David Rockefeller and his AMA. Whats David? He's a Sovereign Military Order of Malta Papal Knight as is his family. All pissing in the same pot. Remember who created the FDA? It was Teddy Roosevelt who was a SMOM Papal Knight with a ranch down in South Dakota called 'THE MALTESE'.

If anyone wants the probiotics etc then they can always utilise the amazing UNpasteurised Kombucha Tea or the next best Kefir.

[nickatnoon61]

What we need to be careful of is demonising all the foods which have made us survive this long. Now remember how the Sovereign Military Order of Malta in control of the Club of Rome, wish to depopulate the Earth. So what they do is teach many lies and twist information so that people think their doing good for themselves when infact their not. I've been all through it for so long and done almost everything out there. I now see much of it as bunkum.

The problem with Milk is not Milk itself but the processes it goes through after it's removed from the Cow. Of course with non-organic milk the Cow is loaded with Chemicals, antibiotics and growth hormones so your in a mess straight away there. Anyhow you should be aware that Raw Milk apparently doesn't make you acidic unlike Pasteurised poison. Raw Milk has it's own powerful immune system whilst Pasteurised poison doesn't. You can add various bacteria and raw milk will KILL IT whilst the poison will NOT. Just look at these many tribespeoples who live off milk from animals and they do not use pasteurisation. So alas don't demonise quality foods when it's simply the modern techniques PURPOSELY acted for depopulation and profiting of the Pharmaceutical companies. Who controls the Pharmaceutical cartel? David Rockefeller and his AMA. Whats David? He's a Sovereign Military Order of Malta Papal Knight as is his family. All pissing in the same pot. Remember who created the FDA? It was Teddy Roosevelt who was a SMOM Papal Knight with a ranch down in South Dakota called 'THE MALTESE'.

If anyone wants the probiotics etc then they can always utilise the amazing UNpasteurised Kombucha Tea or the next best Kefir.
Thanx 2tuff.:) I remember you from the old Forum! I bought a kombucha tea and it went dead on me. I'll see if I can find another one.Look at a few raw food books, and read some testmonials. I am about 70-80% raw, and I live in a cold climate where I need warm foods to heat up.If we lived closer to nature with our farming methods and had a few free range cows, goats, etc. I am sure the raw milk from these creatures would be beneficial.But I see it as totally unnecessary, when I can get all I need for unlimited health from fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, herbs, and WHEATGRASS! I am living proof that this diet works! Teddy was a Jew also. He changed the spelling og his name, I read somewhere. Go to a thread I started IS ICKE AN ILLUMINED MIND SHILL and click on the love for life link, about the beginnings of the ones who control the planet. You will be interested I think, because I read a lot of your posts on the old forum about Kolvenbach,etc. cya round....(=

[nickatnoon61]

Has anyone tried raw unpasturised milk? I have read lots, particularly on Dr. Mercola's website that it is bounding with enzymes, good bacteria, and many other interesting goodies which boost the immune system and do a whole lot of other things which can help cure auto-immune diseases.

I am trying it out for the first time later this week when my organic box arrives.

Hi Fransetter, :) Mercola has a great site. I am getting his newsletter. http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html Mike Adams also has some good stuff. Look at this link and tell me what you think. cya....(=

[awakensong]

I agree that raw unpastuerized milk would have many nutrients and health benefits. It would have to in order for the mother cow to feed her baby calf and have it grow and thrive. But is this food intended for humans?

I have a question about dairy animals. How do they produce enough milk for their calves and all of us, too? Does someone have to go without so the other can have enough? I know how horrendous it is in the commercial dairy industry, what with 2-day-old calves being sold to the veal industry, and the mothers mourning for them. Then they are milked dry so humans can have the food nature intended for their own babies, while the baby ends up in the butcher's display case as someone's next yummy meal. This says to me there isn't enough milk for both the calf and the human, too, nor enough compassion for sentient creatures who are not intended to be eaten, worn or stolen from, at least not by higher spiritual beings such as humans are supposed to be. Are we taking this into consideration? Was it different centuries ago, or did the cow have to be exploited (forced to continue producing milk) in order for humans to have milk even back then?

[fransetter]

Hi Fransetter, :) Mercola has a great site. I am getting his newsletter. http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html Mike Adams also has some good stuff. Look at this link and tell me what you think. cya....(=

Hiya. Yes I am already getting the newsletter, this is what made me look into unpasturized milk. I will have a good read of the interview on the link you provided later and let you know what I think. Look forward to going through it.

Thanks 2Tuff for the info. Of course THEY want to control everything, including what goes on inside of us.

[Ratiocinator]

Milk really is a highly toxic substance, whether it is raw, organic, or otherwise. It makes no difference.

Casein, a protein found in milk (used to make glue), promotes the formation of malignant tumours. Growth factors, found naturally in milk to prompt rapid growth in calves, are carcinogenic and promote cancers. The relationship between the consumption of milk and the development of cancerous tumours is undeniable and very strong.

That is just one reason why to avoid this unhealthy substance. There are plenty of others.

Below is a link to an [audio] interview with Prof. T. Colin Campbell, the author of The China Project (you need to read that book, if you still include milk and other animal products in your diet). Prof. Campbell was raised on a dairy farm, but soon found out the reality of milk and animal proteins, and their ill-effect on human health, when he commenced his academic career:

http://www.vegan.com/diner/2007/diner-2007-11-29.mp3

Edit: I first posted the wrong link (it was a link to another audio file). The correct link has now been added.

[Ratiocinator]

Has anyone tried raw unpasturised milk? I have read lots, particularly on Dr. Mercola's website that it is bounding with enzymes, good bacteria, and many other interesting goodies which boost the immune system and do a whole lot of other things which can help cure auto-immune diseases.

I am trying it out for the first time later this week when my organic box arrives.

Mercola likes to mix lies and highly dangerous advice with a little genuine advice. Be warned. Mercola is not your friend.

Got Raw Milk?

It's all the rage. Many un-health advocates place
families in jeopardy by advocating the consumption
of raw milk from diseased animals.

Internet Doctor Mer(jerk)cola swears by it.

Last week (Wednesday, August 15) the New York Times
reported a story of an Easthampton, New York couple
who go out of their way to buy raw milk for their
9-month-old child. I was tempted to look them up and
forward a hypodermic syringe with a vial of insulin.
USDA's official policy is that no child under the age
of one should ever drink whole milk, because milk
protein is a trigger for insulin-dependent diabetes.
See:

http://www.notmilk.com/d.html

The August 20, 2007 issue of Science magazine reports
the results of a study of raw milk from 901 Wisconsin
herds. Scientists found:

"...a significant presence of Coxiella burnetii and
Listeria monocytogenes."

Is this bad news for raw milk consumers and society?
Not if you believe in zero population growth.
Not if you want to cull the young and sick and infirm
from our own human herd.

One additional warning from USDA:

"Listeria monocytogenes can cause serious and sometimes fatal
infections in young children, frail or elderly people, pregnant
women, and individuals with weakened immune systems. Listeria
infections can also cause miscarriages."

Robert Cohen
http://www.notmilk.com

[Ratiocinator]

Interview with Robert Cohen of www.notmilk.com on the Rense radio show:

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3898023/Rense_-_Robert_Cohen_-_NotMilk.com

[2tuff]

Milk really is a highly toxic substance, whether it is raw, organic, or otherwise. It makes no difference.

Casein, a protein found in milk (used to make glue), promotes the formation of malignant tumours. Growth factors, found naturally in milk to prompt rapid growth in calves, are carcinogenic and promote cancers. The relationship between the consumption of milk and the development of cancerous tumours is undeniable and very strong.

That is just one reason why to avoid this unhealthy substance. There are plenty of others.

Below is a link to an [audio] interview with Prof. T. Colin Campbell, the author of The China Project (you need to read that book, if you still include milk and other animal products in your diet). Prof. Campbell was raised on a dairy farm, but soon found out the reality of milk and animal proteins, and their ill-effect on human health, when he commenced his academic career:

http://www.vegan.com/diner/2007/diner-2007-11-29.mp3

Edit: I first posted the wrong link (it was a link to another audio file). The correct link has now been added.

I've gone through all this type of material and mindframes and been a big promoter of them as people are aware of. I now reverse much of my thinking and that false knowledge. What we need to realise is that many people around the World with fantastic health and zero Cancer, live on Milk. Many live simply on Yaks for godsake. So can you explain this? Milk is not Toxic and like everything else it needs to be in balance. Why have you not mentioned it's mucus content which is a problem somewhat but a balance diet buffers the negative. We hear all this scaremongering about Cholesterol which is actually a massive con. I can tell you now that Virgin Pure Coconut Oil will do amazing things for you, especially if you're ill health and can see differences. I now take 3 tablespoons around 50 grams of this SATURATED FAT daily and it's been a life saver for me at the moment. In reality a human should drink raw Goats milk rather than the cow.

--

FOOD FALLACIES EXPOSED!

LENNY BLOOM SAYS IT SOUNDS LIKE THE MILK AGENCIES HAVE THEIR HOOKS INTO THE ONTARIO HEALTH DEPT.

PAM KILLEEN Investigative Reporter &
MICHAEL SCHMIDT Farmerr

MP3 FORMAT (http://www.cloakanddagger.de/shows/webcast/killeen/_CLOAK_KILLEEN%20SCHMITT.mp3)

[Ratiocinator]

2TUFF, you really need to study the work of Prof. T. Colin Campbell. Read his book The China Study, and listen to that audio I linked to in my previous post.

Forget what people of other cultures do; do not allow their ways to affect your thoughts on what is best for the typical Westerner. There is a mountain of difference, and so many relevant parameters.

Casein, pus, concentrated toxins (including pesticides, even in organic milk), naturally occurring growth factors, and so on, are ALL present in ALL milk. These things promote cancers and various other diseases in humans.

You give a lot of good advice, 2TUFF. But on this issue you are very wrong.

Nature made milk for babies. Babies of the same species from which the milk came.


Seven more (much more in-depth) audio interviews with T. Colin Campbell:

http://www.climatehealth.net/Interviews.html


The China Study:

China Study, The: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health: Amazon.co.uk: Colin Campbell: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518KXHZQH5L.@@AMEPARAM@@518KXHZQH5L

[celtic isis]

My OH's cousin was recently admitted to hospital with really bad tummy probs...apparently her insides have all hardened up as a result of...

DRINKING SO MUCH MILK!

:eek:

I've been having loads of belly probs myself, and i too used to drink loads of milk, but irish milk so at least it's a little better (not loaded with so much chemical crap, but still not good)...my insides feel hard too alot of the time...:(

Humans are just not equipped to consume dairy and of course it's everywhere in the media, particularly in France, so many advertisements telling people how important it is to drink milk and have your 3 portions of dairy a day. :rolleyes:

actually there's one advert in particular which freaks me out, i'll see i i can find it...


hang on and don't drink any milk while you're waitin!

[celtic isis]

here it is! what a fluke i found it just typing "produits laitiers" (dairy products) in google! :eek:

Pub produits laitiers (la chose) - Vidéo Dailymotion

freakiest ad ever! what would the beegees think of this lol ;)


they're showing one skeleton sick looking cause he doesn't eat dairy, while all the others are strong and healthy...in the end he sucks the cow's udder so he can be all healthy and full of mucus like them lol

[awakensong]

Another issue on cross-species cuisine that I've recently come across is Sea Salt. I thought for years now that it was the right choice, and so healthy. The other day I read an article that Sea Salt is abundantly healthy for fish, but deadly for humans. Chemical salt is wrong, too, of course; in fact, adding any salt to our food is wrong, but the article advocated salt substitutes containing potassium chloride instead of our usual sodium chloride, and it was not an article trying to sell this from the site.

http://www.vialls.com/vialls/potassium.html (http://www.vialls.com/vialls/potassium.html) - an article about the importance of sufficient potassium in the diet. This is, interestingly enough, said to be found in the raw food vegan diet, but read the following, and in fact, click the link and read the entire article. We have been running on empty for a lot longer than we thought:

"Running in tandem with the depletion of potassium in fruit and vegetables during the 19th Century was an even bigger problem. Until then, salt of any kind had been so highly valued on most continents, that at one point in history it was actually used as money. In Europe, Asia and Africa most of the salt moved by the camel trains over thousands of miles was sylvite, otherwise known as potassium chloride. Great chunks of sylvite were dotted along the trading routes for the beasts of burden to lick at, thereby restoring their electrolytes lost through sweating and other exertion. But when the railroads opened up America from east to west, they started carrying vast quantities of cheap salt produced in giant pans on the two coasts. Unfortunately for Americans this was sea salt, comprised of 98.8% sodium chloride, the favorite of fishes but a deadly enemy of man. And so it was that in less than seventy years, western man had his healthy potassium replaced almost entirely by unhealthy sodium.....

"Laboratory tests prove that the fruits, the vegetables, the grains, the eggs, and even the milk and the meats of today are not what they were a few generations ago (which doubtless explains why our forefathers thrived on a selection of foods that would starve us!)

"No man today can eat enough fruits and vegetables to supply his stomach with the mineral salts he requires for perfect health, because his stomach isn't big enough to hold them! And we are turning into big stomachs.

"No longer does a balanced and fully nourishing diet consist merely of so many calories or certain vitamins or fixed proportion of starches, proteins and carbohydrates. We know that our diets must contain in addition something like a score of minerals salts."

[nickatnoon61]

I agree that raw unpastuerized milk would have many nutrients and health benefits. It would have to in order for the mother cow to feed her baby calf and have it grow and thrive. But is this food intended for humans?

I have a question about dairy animals. How do they produce enough milk for their calves and all of us, too? Does someone have to go without so the other can have enough? I know how horrendous it is in the commercial dairy industry, what with 2-day-old calves being sold to the veal industry, and the mothers mourning for them. Then they are milked dry so humans can have the food nature intended for their own babies, while the baby ends up in the butcher's display case as someone's next yummy meal. This says to me there isn't enough milk for both the calf and the human, too, nor enough compassion for sentient creatures who are not intended to be eaten, worn or stolen from, at least not by higher spiritual beings such as humans are supposed to be. Are we taking this into consideration? Was it different centuries ago, or did the cow have to be exploited (forced to continue producing milk) in order for humans to have milk even back then?
Great post AWS!!! Most have been so brainwashed about milk and it's supposed benefits. Milk also causes aheadaches! The moral issue is enough for me to STOP the support of the torture and slaughter of dairy cows, even organic dairy cows!

[nickatnoon61]

Mercola likes to mix lies and highly dangerous advice with a little genuine advice. Be warned. Mercola is not your friend.Thanx Ratio, I was surprised to hear Mercola was pushing milk! Thru trial and error,I have come to a place where I have ultimate health! And no doctor helped get me there!!!!!! Google the Gorilla Diet for ultimate health!(60% fruit and vegetables and 40% greens)

[shellygurrrl]

Nutritious sustenance from any female species cannot be harmful. I don't care what anyone says. Milk from a female - how could it be toxic? It's food, it's life!

Of course with all the shit they put in it is gonna alter the purity.

Sometimes I wonder if "carcinogens" isn't just a scare word. There's something "bad" everywhere if you look long enough.

[nickatnoon61]

Another issue on cross-species cuisine that I've recently come across is Sea Salt. I thought for years now that it was the right choice, and so healthy. The other day I read an article that Sea Salt is abundantly healthy for fish, but deadly for humans. Chemical salt is wrong, too, of course; in fact, adding any salt to our food is wrong, but the article advocated salt substitutes containing potassium chloride instead of our usual sodium chloride, and it was not an article trying to sell this from the site.

http://www.vialls.com/vialls/potassium.html (http://www.vialls.com/vialls/potassium.html) - an article about the importance of sufficient potassium in the diet. This is, interestingly enough, said to be found in the raw food vegan diet, but read the following, and in fact, click the link and read the entire article. We have been running on empty for a lot longer than we thought:

"Running in tandem with the depletion of potassium in fruit and vegetables during the 19th Century was an even bigger problem. Until then, salt of any kind had been so highly valued on most continents, that at one point in history it was actually used as money. In Europe, Asia and Africa most of the salt moved by the camel trains over thousands of miles was sylvite, otherwise known as potassium chloride. Great chunks of sylvite were dotted along the trading routes for the beasts of burden to lick at, thereby restoring their electrolytes lost through sweating and other exertion. But when the railroads opened up America from east to west, they started carrying vast quantities of cheap salt produced in giant pans on the two coasts. Unfortunately for Americans this was sea salt, comprised of 98.8% sodium chloride, the favorite of fishes but a deadly enemy of man. And so it was that in less than seventy years, western man had his healthy potassium replaced almost entirely by unhealthy sodium.....

"Laboratory tests prove that the fruits, the vegetables, the grains, the eggs, and even the milk and the meats of today are not what they were a few generations ago (which doubtless explains why our forefathers thrived on a selection of foods that would starve us!)

"No man today can eat enough fruits and vegetables to supply his stomach with the mineral salts he requires for perfect health, because his stomach isn't big enough to hold them! And we are turning into big stomachs.

"No longer does a balanced and fully nourishing diet consist merely of so many calories or certain vitamins or fixed proportion of starches, proteins and carbohydrates. We know that our diets must contain in addition something like a score of minerals salts." Thanx, Wheatgrass can be grown cheaply and it is a concentrated whole food with over 90 minerals! If you want to be sure you are getting all of your vitamins it is a great bet! Also I take Himalayan Crystal Salt instead of Sea Salt.Google it also.

[Ratiocinator]

Thanx Ratio, I was surprised to hear Mercola was pushing milk! Thru trial and error,I have come to a place where I have ultimate health! And no doctor helped get me there!!!!!! Google the Gorilla Diet for ultimate health!(60% fruit and vegetables and 40% greens)


Dr. Mercola was actually advising people to consume meat and milk as part of an anti-cancer diet, in an article on pancreatic cancer!

The guy is a snake oil pushing lunatic!

[2tuff]

The body needs the foods we've always been brought up on. Notice how fertility goes down in people who do not consume these foods. What I enjoyed seeing today was a true story of a lady who went detox crazy like we all have or are right now. See eventually became Fruitarian and talked about the state of her teeth, hair falling out, period problems and so on and so on. She said when she ate the foods you guys are hammering she felt amazing tinglings and things happening, like her body was happy and coming back alive. She was in a right state and I can believe it as I've been their somewhat. I've also gone through a version of AIDS via too many supplements and so forth when I was learning and experimenting. I'm sorry folks but I will look at other cultures, their lifespans and foods. Whats the common factor? All the foods our Knight of Malta controlled shits want us to come off. You'll notice them overprice these foods shortly under the guise of health with high prices but also fat taxes. They've demonised the meats etc by adding chemicals which damage people and make them eat to much of it also. Now people hate and fear meat and milk. I do agree we are the only animal that continues to drink milk. I agree that a child should only have mother's milk till it's 18 months old. I agree that if someone does get Cancer then a vegan diet for the period of healing is needed as it feeds Cancer. But remember most the Cancer out there is chemical induced and I believe mouse mammory viruses let out on purpose such as the amount of Liver and Breast Cancers. Stick to Organic! Grow your own foods and have your own animals. It's a U-turn for me and has amazed many people who know me but I've been there, done that and seen most of it is WRONG over time but good in the short term. So whilst idiots go and pay a fortune for pond scum Spirulina they can have certain normal priced everyday organic foods which have far more healthy substances haha. Just look at the superfood called THE EGG haha can you tell me of anything else that contains Vitamin D? What about the levels of much needed Iodine? THE EGG! Old fashioned.

[shellygurrrl]

Look, whatever they PUT into the milk is a completely SEPARATE issue. That's B*A*D.

Mother's Milk is NEVER ever ever ever ever - no matter what species - bad.

EVER.

[shellygurrrl]

And why are people so scared of cancer?

I think cancer is a mind fuck orchestrated by the elite.

I think a person could injest poison, and if they believe and imagine their body and its organs are functioning properly, it will.

[nickatnoon61]

I agree that raw unpastuerized milk would have many nutrients and health benefits. It would have to in order for the mother cow to feed her baby calf and have it grow and thrive. But is this food intended for humans?

I have a question about dairy animals. How do they produce enough milk for their calves and all of us, too? Does someone have to go without so the other can have enough? I know how horrendous it is in the commercial dairy industry, what with 2-day-old calves being sold to the veal industry, and the mothers mourning for them. Then they are milked dry so humans can have the food nature intended for their own babies, while the baby ends up in the butcher's display case as someone's next yummy meal. This says to me there isn't enough milk for both the calf and the human, too, nor enough compassion for sentient creatures who are not intended to be eaten, worn or stolen from, at least not by higher spiritual beings such as humans are supposed to be. Are we taking this into consideration? Was it different centuries ago, or did the cow have to be exploited (forced to continue producing milk) in order for humans to have milk even back then? AWS a cow/calf has multiple stomachs to digest the milk with! How many do you have???? ha ha :D

[fransetter]

OMG I have just drunk raw milk for the first time in goodness knows how many years. It has set of a tremendous craving :eek: the more I drink = the more I want. I have never had this happen with milk. Usually I don't care much for it at all. What goes on? has anyone any ideas?

[megafish33]

OMG I have just drunk raw milk for the first time in goodness knows how many years. It has set of a tremendous craving :eek: the more I drink = the more I want. I have never had this happen with milk. Usually I don't care much for it at all. What goes on? has anyone any ideas?

Maybe you crave it because it's good for your body chemistry? That, and it has morphine. (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/213/4511/1010)

[pri01]

This is an interesting thread as it presents the opportunity for me to ask a deadly daft question/s. I often ponder at the wonders of our food choices and think about their origin.

For instance, does anyone know the origin of our use of cows milk?Would an individual have come across the use of this resource by accident, or have we been shown. Was cheese making discovered by accident? Although cheese making seems to be a complex process, the originator of the process must have made many accidents to complete it. Wouldn't they?:)

I would like to apply the same question to the milling of grain for flour and the discovery of it's use to bake bread etc. Wouldn't humans have starved and become extinct prior to this discovery? Additionally was wine making an accidental discovery, or was it taught to us?

[megafish33]

Both dairy and use of grains are relatively new. During the hunter-gatherer stage(-which could have even come after a collapse of a previously high tech society, makes no difference when a world looses all of it's knowledge and vast amounts of populations die-) "food" probably (IMHO) consisted of insects, animals, and fruits-anything with it's own seed attached. Knowledge of seeds and more mouths to feed due to less infant mortality led clans and tribes to agriculture. Although I read reports that animal husbandry may have come first. Either way, both foods are new. Leafy greens are nutrient dense, and great for helping weight loss in our overfed world, but they would simply not provide the caloric content needed to survive. Starches and fats would. A good source of protein and starch is the whole grain food. Grains are seeds, that were probably never quite good raw, so humans started to soak and sprout them. It's been noted that soaked and sprouted grains are actually more nutritious because you're able to absorb more of their proteins and minerals. Animal foods also offered "seeds" in the form of eggs. Flour is an even "newer" food. Roots and shoots are probably an example of an older food. Mushrooms too... I'm sure they have killed and or enlightened much of mankind over the millenniums. This isn't to say "new" foods are "bad." Raw dairy, if taken clean, contains a ton of beneficial bacteria... bacteria we're now adding back in after pasteurization. Interesting to note... there are more bacteria in our gut than there are cells in our body... so if we're more bacterial than ummm... mammal.. it would make sense to have a craving for foods that nourish that part of us as well. It's been noted that after eating natural dairy foods, without added sweetener, our immune systems function with more efficiency.

[shellygurrrl]

This is an interesting thread as it presents the opportunity for me to ask a deadly daft question/s. I often ponder at the wonders of our food choices and think about their origin.

For instance, does anyone know the origin of our use of cows milk?Would an individual have come across the use of this resource by accident, or have we been shown. Was cheese making discovered by accident? Although cheese making seems to be a complex process, the originator of the process must have made many accidents to complete it. Wouldn't they?:)

I would like to apply the same question to the milling of grain for flour and the discovery of it's use to bake bread etc. Wouldn't humans have starved and become extinct prior to this discovery? Additionally was wine making an accidental discovery, or was it taught to us?



Some people speculate that humans would not know these things if it weren't for alien astronauts who came here in ages past.

[2tuff]

And why are people so scared of cancer?

I think cancer is a mind fuck orchestrated by the elite.

I think a person could injest poison, and if they believe and imagine their body and its organs are functioning properly, it will.

I understand what your saying but my friend you better be worried about Cancer. I try to make sure people start to understand this disease early before they may get it so they can cope and attack it. The problem is that so many people leave it till their suffering and thus they cannot cope with all the information needed. To study the subject from an alternative health perspective it takes much time and a clear mind. A Cancer sufferer is too worried and cannot store the knowledge in most cases etc etc. They also want to rush into certain treatments.

My friend Cancer is 1 in 3 right now and by around 2010 it will be 1 in 2. Do you truely understand those figures and how this will impact poor innocent families? It's utter disgusting. I can tell you that many years ago Cancer was ultra rare. Surgeons training up students would be so exciting to have a Cancer victims body to demonstrate. They would boast this may be the ONLY time you'll ever see this. It's nothing to do with the fact they didn't have detection systems we do today. Now it's rampant due to chemicals, wrong living, pollutions and Fungi etc. I've experienced Cancer with my mother having it eight years ago. She was amazed at how many people are cueing up at the Cancer clinics and all ages from young to old. It's just going rampant here in England. I'm fed up to the teeth of people coming down with Cancer and Hypothyroidism. We know for sure whats causing the Thyroid problems and we have suspect certain areas with the Cancer. So please research the treatments and protocols and be prepared for it the time arises and hopefully it will not for you.

If you're wanting more milk after drinking some then take in more within balance until these cravings stop. You'll probably find that your body is deficient in something within the Milk and wants to replenish. You'll soon get fed up of it and then you'll know your restocked.

[awakensong]

Some people speculate that humans would not know these things if it weren't for alien astronauts who came here in ages past.

If it's also true that we are actually hybrids 'created' by these ETs (Sitchin theory, etc.) then what WOULD the optimal diet for homo sapiens be, or would there even be one?

Perhaps that's where and what the whole problem is?

It seems evolutionists promote the Paleolithic Diet which would make sense to them, and creationists promote the Fruitarian or Natural Hygiene diet which would make sense to them. But what would an Interventionist diet be? I have given this a lot of thought and it seems there is only a way to 'come close' to what is right.

[shellygurrrl]

If it's also true that we are actually hybrids 'created' by these ETs (Sitchin theory, etc.) then what WOULD the optimal diet for homo sapiens be, or would there even be one?

Perhaps that's where and what the whole problem is?

It seems evolutionists promote the Paleolithic Diet which would make sense to them, and creationists promote the Fruitarian or Natural Hygiene diet which would make sense to them. But what would an Interventionist diet be? I have given this a lot of thought and it seems there is only a way to 'come close' to what is right.

Those are good points! I guess until they let us know, we're just able to go with what we know. I also tend to think the whole "diet right for your blood type" idea is right. I have AB negative blood, and supposedly those with this type digest dairy well. I find that to be true. I feel good and healthy with it in my diet.

Moderation is important with any diet of course. And my gut says food that comes straight from the earth is best. If Sitchins is right, then they taught to till the earth and grow foods from the soil. Grains, vegetables, etc. must be good for the body then. But the fewer ingredients, the better, for all store bought products. When you can't pronounce what's in it and the list of ingredients goes down the entire side of the box, you should question whether it would be a good idea to eat it!

My thought would be the type of aliens such as the Pleiadians would be more vegetarian types with reptiles being carnivorous. It's interesting to speculate.

[awakensong]

I'm Type A and ran into one particular problem with the recommendations. It says I would do well with soy, but I don't. I also read posts from other Type-A's on Dr. D'Adamo's forum where they said they didn't do well with soy, either. This type is supposed to be vegetarian, so we do best by avoiding dairy as well as meat.

I saw an interesting interview with a scientist who said all humans were Type O until a comet came across Europe centuries ago, and the radiation changed the blood in those people to Type A. This is the type who would be the best candidates for Breatharianism, too.

[2tuff]

If you appreciate your body timing thyroid then stay well away from Soy. Thats just one problem and a mighty problem it is.

[celtic isis]

here it is! what a fluke i found it just typing "produits laitiers" (dairy products) in google! :eek:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32xho_pub-produits-laitiers-la-chose_ads

freakiest ad ever! what would the beegees think of this lol ;)


they're showing one skeleton sick looking cause he doesn't eat dairy, while all the others are strong and healthy...in the end he sucks the cow's udder so he can be all healthy and full of mucus like them lol

whoa this thread is getting really interesting :)

hey did any of you take a look at the ad i posted? it just shows the brainwashing going on to try and get everyone to eat as much dairy as possible.

it's like dairy worship or something :p

[celtic isis]

Nutritious sustenance from any female species cannot be harmful. I don't care what anyone says. Milk from a female - how could it be toxic? It's food, it's life!

Of course with all the shit they put in it is gonna alter the purity.

Sometimes I wonder if "carcinogens" isn't just a scare word. There's something "bad" everywhere if you look long enough.

i agree, it seems to me now that the only ones who should drink cow's milk are the calves it was intended for!

:rolleyes:

likewise human milk to baby, no cow/goat/sheep/buffalo stuff...would a cow feed off one of us :eek:

[2tuff]

Look all over the entire Globe and what do you see it's peoples eating? Animal products. We see remote tribes, city people and so forth. It's not the Dairy it's the damn poisons and processes which hurt you. Please do not try to crack useless jokes and be sarky this is peoples health your dealing with here. I've been through it all and promoted both sides and I wish I hadn't and realised the truth before now. You stick to your fade diets my friend which should be used just to heal for a short period of time. I will stick to my diverse diet with Saturated Fats and Eggs. I will then annually do a 1-3 month cleanse. Who do you think will be healthier? I see the internet boffin agents have done a great job too of mind alchemy on you like they did to me and many others. Don't work anymore.

Question. Do you believe the Elite wish to depopulate the planet and have been via the Club of Rome controlled by the Knights of Malta? You do? So don't you find it suspicious when the British Government turn round and talk about making the populance Vegans to save the environment? Alarm bells, ding a ling a ling. Short term yes, very much so. Long term NO WAY IN HELL! Sit back take a hard look and use logic/common sense and you'll see soon through much of the hype out there. So the internet boffins promote Oil Pulling don't they as the next miracle cure. Well I can tell you it can put you in a wooden box period! How? Experience which I'm gradually getting over thankgod. It's time for real information, balanced information and truth. I've seen all these idiots come out with such daft things as it was Emperor Constantine who made us all meat eaters. What a load of nonsense! Yes the Roman Catholic Institute has done many things to us but they didn't make you eat meat haha. Do you think that Constantine told remote tribespeople to eat meat and so forth haha. Wrongful Paranoia nonsense, next you'll be going on about alkaline foods haha thats a good one too. I've done it myself haha.

[megafish33]

Look all over the entire Globe and what do you see it's peoples eating? Animal products. We see remote tribes, city people and so forth. It's not the Dairy it's the damn poisons and processes which hurt you. Please do not try to crack useless jokes and be sarky this is peoples health your dealing with here. I've been through it all and promoted both sides and I wish I hadn't and realised the truth before now.

Glad you've seen the light. Screw the fads! Certain plant foods provide incredible fuel and return on investment... and a plant food diet can be therapeutic for a while and up to a point. However, a properly slaughtered and clean animal food will rise the dead and revive the human soul! So far the best post-workout recovery meal I've discovered is sushi... raw amino and fatty acids from fish and, of course, high glycemic carbohydrates to replenish your glycogen.

[celtic isis]

look we should just all eat what we all damn want to eat! just be happy! it doesn't matter we're all screwed anyway my friends!

i'm confused with some of the recent posts here, yes yes yes 2tuff, we all know what you're saying, we know the deal and who's behind it etc etc...you talk to us as if we're sheeple!

:confused:

[fransetter]

look we should just all eat what we all damn want to eat! just be happy!

That would be really nice, if eating a bread roll didn't put me in hospital and a jacket potato crush my energy levels.

Give me raw milk any day. After an initial scare with a horrendous craving, things have settled down and I have noticed more energy. It looks like the natural B12 content is getting through to me. I usually have to have B12 injected!!!

Some of us need to know the truth about what we eat because our survival depends on it. Nobody in the medical profession has been able to advise me. All they say is "avoid gluten products" and "eat healthily for your condition". Can they define "healthy" and advise me accordingly? not on your life. They are as blind as bats. I am learning so much from these forums, and website links etc, and thanks to the people who are providing this information, I have noticed real improvements. I have been at deaths door on numerous occasions this year and now see a glimmer of hope, even though today I discovered a new mass!!! Hopefully my lifestyle changes haven't come too late.

[fransetter]

This guy has quite a bit to say about milk during this video "Food as Medicine" Part II

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7798117152905143532

[pri01]

If you appreciate your body timing thyroid then stay well away from Soy. Thats just one problem and a mighty problem it is.


OMG, please tell me why, I am gutted because I absolutely love soy sauce.

[megafish33]

OMG, please tell me why, I am gutted because I absolutely love soy sauce.

Well, some claim that there are too many anti nutrients in soy. Raw soy sauce should be fine as it's fermented. Even most commercial soy milks have a really low amount of anti nutrients... Don't sweat it too much if you have a varied diet. Personally, I don't eat much soy because it simply isn't a favorite food of mine. My favorite protein source is whey(and casein) which is derived from milk.

How soy can harm. (http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy_controversy.html)

Why you shouldn't worry to much. (http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm)

Fermented soy is a healthy food. My favorite is miso (http://www.southrivermiso.com/index_steam.html)... you can enjoy it many ways, especially as a warm soup.

While not fermented, EdenSoy (http://www.edenfoods.com/store/index.php?cPath=24) is a good soy milk product as they make it with ultra low traces of anti nutrients.


fransetter: Glad to hear you're health is improving!

[cruise4]

In the Uk we had a case where Sainsbury's and Asda (I think) were convicted of price fixing Dairy Products. A £10 million fine was issued.

1. Where does this £10 million actually go?
2. I have seen no sign of any reductions?

Has anyone seen any benefit to the consumer from this process?

[mad as a cat]

In the Uk we had a case where Sainsbury's and Asda (I think) were convicted of price fixing Dairy Products. A £10 million fine was issued.

1. Where does this £10 million actually go?
2. I have seen no sign of any reductions?

Has anyone seen any benefit to the consumer from this process?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that the £10 million, plus money from OTHER supermarkets' fines, went to THE TREASURY ! :eek:

[cruise4]

Sounds about right. That'll fund some other anti-consumer nasty then. And I bet the prices don't go down... they'll go up.

[swoarg]

ive spent nearly fourty years with a diary allergy or wat ever youd call it but never knew, my main sympton is severe heel pain and it can be brought on by one sip of milk it feels like i have a stone in my sheo and have had to live with this pain most of my life the worst thing for me was we use to get free milk at school :confused: but i was told i wer flat footed so i presumed i had to live with the pain other affects are stiff joints especialy knees latharjic
lazy slugishness days thick blood feeling and a head that feels like its some were ellse like in a big buble basicly my life has been a bit of a mess due to my diary intolarance but after trying all kinds of different things
ie spongey souled sheos (bliss) and different foods one day i ran out of milk and that was that

[fransetter]

Does tainted milk cause Chrohn's disease. Pasteurized milk -vs- raw.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/1/does-tainted-milk-cause-crohn-s-disease.aspx

I must say that since I changed to drinking raw milk, I have found several improvements to my health:)

[nickatnoon61]

Does tainted milk cause Chrohn's disease. Pasteurized milk -vs- raw.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/1/does-tainted-milk-cause-crohn-s-disease.aspx

I must say that since I changed to drinking raw milk, I have found several improvements to my health:)
There is no such thing as Crohn's Disease! Just eating improper/unnatural foods, poisons, and not cleansing the crap out of our colons. I have read, and experienced enough on bowell-cleansing, to know this. If raw milk works for you, then do it. There is a moral side to the issue also,tho, as all dairy cows are eventually slaughtered when they don't produce any more. Kinda like how we treat our human elders!!!:eek:

[fransetter]

There is no such thing as Crohn's Disease! Just eating improper/unnatural foods, poisons, and not cleansing the crap out of our colons. I have read, and experienced enough on bowell-cleansing, to know this. If raw milk works for you, then do it. There is a moral side to the issue also,tho, as all dairy cows are eventually slaughtered when they don't produce any more. Kinda like how we treat our human elders!!!:eek:

Who said anything about MY having Crohn's Disease? I certainly haven't. I actually have Addison's Disease, adrenal cancer, Coeliacs and Vit. B12 deficiency, the latter which was probably caused through drinking pasteurized milk, or through having been through a spell of being totally vegan. I just posted this as information for those who may have had such a diagnosis and it is up to them to draw their own conclusions.

Drinking raw milk has actually helped me to start absorbing B12, like it or not. I have also started eating mostly raw foods, for me it is a case of do it, or die!

[nickatnoon61]

Who said anything about MY having Crohn's Disease? I certainly haven't. I actually have Addison's Disease, adrenal cancer, Coeliacs and Vit. B12 deficiency, the latter which was probably caused through drinking pasteurized milk, or through having been through a spell of being totally vegan. I just posted this as information for those who may have had such a diagnosis and it is up to them to draw their own conclusions.

Drinking raw milk has actually helped me to start absorbing B12, like it or not. I have also started eating mostly raw foods, for me it is a case of do it, or die!Fransetter said:
Does tainted milk cause Chrohn's disease. Pasteurized milk -vs- raw.Nick said:Do you also have Alzheimer's????:D Your last comment is too true..."do it or die"Alkalize Or Die" is a great book,also ..http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/511 This link has some interesting health info.

[fransetter]

Fransetter said:
Does tainted milk cause Chrohn's disease. Pasteurized milk -vs- raw.Nick said:Do you also have Alzheimer's????:D Your last comment is too true..."do it or die"Alkalize Or Die" is a great book,also ..http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/511 This link has some interesting health info.

You know what? for every website which says raw milk is good, and give loads of wonderful reasons for it being so, there is another one which says don't. It seems as though I am buggered if I do and stuffed if I don't. One thing is for certain, everyone (apart from the government) believe the heat treated stuff to be naff, but then again the government seem hell bent on culling us all anyway.

Alzheimer's? I might as well be, because I don't know which way to turn to help me reverse the conditions I have, and that is all I am interested in.

:eek::confused:

[thetonic]

Who said anything about MY having Crohn's Disease? I certainly haven't. I actually have Addison's Disease, adrenal cancer, Coeliacs and Vit. B12 deficiency, the latter which was probably caused through drinking pasteurized milk, or through having been through a spell of being totally vegan. I just posted this as information for those who may have had such a diagnosis and it is up to them to draw their own conclusions.

Drinking raw milk has actually helped me to start absorbing B12, like it or not. I have also started eating mostly raw foods, for me it is a case of do it, or die!

Im sorry fran but cancers can hardly be attributed to a vegan diet... Cancers are the result of carcinogens and toxins/poisons in your food.. Tell me , when you were on a vegan diet , did you eat purely 100% organic veggies?..

Even if you say yes, i would reply that there is hardly any assurance that your food was organic unless you grew it yourself or knew the farmers that did...

Of course there are other factors... Do you live near any production facilities?...


I have never heard of a vegetable that caused cancer , thats all...

[2tuff]

Im sorry fran but cancers can hardly be attributed to a vegan diet... Cancers are the result of carcinogens and toxins/poisons in your food.. Tell me , when you were on a vegan diet , did you eat purely 100% organic veggies?..

Even if you say yes, i would reply that there is hardly any assurance that your food was organic unless you grew it yourself or knew the farmers that did...

Of course there are other factors... Do you live near any production facilities?...


I have never heard of a vegetable that caused cancer , thats all...


I'LL TELL YOU ABOUT MILK AND CANCER. IT'S NOT MILK CAUSING CANCER AS YOU'RE BEING TOLD EXACTLY. ONCE AGAIN THESE PEOPLE USE A HALF TRUTH IN ORDER TO DEMONISE A FOOD USED FOR EONS BEFORE CANCER WAS EVEN AROUND AND SEEN. DOCTORS USED TO JUMP FOR JOY WHEN THEY WITNESSED CANCER AND WOULD FLOCK TO USE THE BODIES FOR DEMOS OF THIS STRANGE OCCURANCE. MILK WAS DRUNK THEN, SO WHATS THE DIFFERENCE.

I'LL TELL YOU! WE HAVE MANY POLLUTANT/CHEMICALS ETC ATTACKING US WHICH CAUSE CANCER. THESE ARE WITHIN OUR FOOD SUPPLY ACROSS THE RANGE, IN THE AIR AND WATER SUPPLIES. IT'S ALL MAN-MADE! YOU THRIVE OFF ESTROGENS AND SO DO CANCERS WHEN THEY'RE FORMED SO OBVIOUSLY IT'S WISE TO TONE THESE DOWN AND THIS IS WHY MILK IS DISCONTINUED WHEN CANCER IS PRESENT! THE SYNTHETIC VITAMIN D IN THE MILK IS SIMPLY RAT POISON PERIOD AND NO USE TO MAN OR BEAST EXCEPT TO KILL THEM. MILK IS BLOOD WITH THE RED CORPUSCLE REMOVED, IT'S A BLOOD TRANSFUSION. THE CORPUSCLE IS REMOVED SO THE MOTHER OF THE INFANT HAS WHAT SHE NEEDS TO SURVIVE. THE INFANT'S BONE MARROW SUPPLYS IT WITH THE RED CORPUSCLE IT NEEDS TO SURVIVE. NOTE HOW MOST THE POWDERED MILK IS STRAIGHT ANIMAL BLOOD WITH THE CORPUSCLE REMOVED. THE FARMERS WANTED YET MORE MONEY WHEN THEY COTTONED ON.

WHEN POWDERED MILK IS USED IT'S EVEN MORE DANGEROUS AS IT'S STRAIGHT FROM THE ANIMALS BLOOD. NOT A PROBLEM IF IT WAS TOTALLY ORGANIC AND YEARS AGO, BUT NOW IT'S LETHAL WITH THE POISONS INJECTED INTO THE BEAST. MILK SHOULD BE MILK AND NOT BE ADJUSTED IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. MILK SHOULD BE LOADED WITH FAT AND NOT SKIMMED OR PASTEURISED. SO LETS NOT DEMONISE REAL MILK AND REAL FOODS BASED ON HALF TRUTHS, QUACK SCIENCE AND BECAUSE OF MAN'S POISONS. IT'S ALL DONE FOR POPULATION CONTROL AND THE MOVING OF PEOPLE OFF MEATS ETC IN ORDER TO CREATE ILLNESS. THEY KNOW THE POPULANCE THAT SWITCH WILL NOT SUPPLY THEMSELVES CORRECTLY VIA CERTAIN FOODS AND THEN END UP DISEASED. BEEN THERE, DONE THAT! IT'S ALL NONSENSE!

-CRAIG OXLEY

[megafish33]

Yeah, and unfortunately many skimmed milks are made with powdered milk to give them body...yuck!

[nickatnoon61]

You know what? for every website which says raw milk is good, and give loads of wonderful reasons for it being so, there is another one which says don't. It seems as though I am buggered if I do and stuffed if I don't. One thing is for certain, everyone (apart from the government) believe the heat treated stuff to be naff, but then again the government seem hell bent on culling us all anyway.

Alzheimer's? I might as well be, because I don't know which way to turn to help me reverse the conditions I have, and that is all I am interested in.

:eek::confused: FS, check out this interview, esp. if you are a meat-eater. http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html Then go to Cousen's web site. All of the health challenges you have are due to toxicity. They will ALL disappear in 30-90 days depending! You have to do it tho! Take responsibility for your own health. I have fasted on juice/water up to 50 days, and I am going to do a 60 day soon. There is nothing better for your health. NOTHING!!!! physically, mentally, or spiritually. Read about RAW foods, as much as you can, also. good luck. :)

[chattanova]

Nonfat, Low-Fat Milk Linked to Cancer

NEW YORK (Jan. 2) - The amount of calcium and vitamin D in the diet appears to have little or no impact on the risk of prostate cancer, but the consumption of low-fat or nonfat milk may increase the risk of the malignancy, according to the results of two studies published in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

Dietary calcium and dairy products have been thought to increase the risk of prostate cancer by affecting vitamin D metabolism. Data from several prospective studies have supported an association, but many other studies have failed to establish a link.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/1/5/f_melkm_19f1029.jpg

It has long been thought that dairy products can interfere with the cancer-fighting properties of vitamin D, but the consumption of low-fat or nonfat milks appears to increase the risk that the tumors become malignant.

To explore this topic further, Dr. Song-Yi Park, from the University of Hawaii in Honolulu, and colleagues, analyzed data from subjects enrolled in the Multiethnic Cohort Study. This study, conducted between 1993 and 2002, included adults between 45 and 75 years old, were primarily from five different ethnic or racial groups, and lived in California or Hawaii.

A total of 82,483 men from the study completed a quantitative food frequency questionnaire and various factors, such as weight, smoking status, and education levels were also noted, Park's group said.

During an average follow-up period of 8 years, 4,404 men developed prostate cancer. There was no evidence that calcium or vitamin D from any source increased the risk of prostate cancer. This held true across all racial and ethnic groups.

In an overall analysis of food groups, the consumption of dairy products and milk were not associated with prostate cancer risk, the authors found. Further analysis, however, suggested that low-fat or nonfat milk did increase the risk of localized tumors or non-aggressive tumors, while whole milk decreased this risk.

In a similar analysis, Dr. Yikyung Park, from the National Cancer Institute at National Institutes (NIH) of Health in Bethesda, Maryland, and colleagues investigated the relationship of calcium and vitamin D and prostate cancer in 293,888 men enrolled in the NIH-American Association of Retired Persons Diet and Health Study, conducted between 1995 and 2001. The average follow-up period was 6 years.

No link between total or supplemental dietary calcium and the total number of non-advanced prostate cancer cases was noted. Total calcium intake was tied to advanced and fatal disease, but both associations fell short of statistical significance.

Similar to the first study's findings, skim milk was linked with advanced prostate cancer. Calcium from non-dairy food, by contrast, was tied to a reduced risk of non-advanced prostate cancer.

"Our findings do not provide strong support for the hypothesis that calcium and dairy foods increase the risk of prostate cancer. The results from other large...studies, with adequate numbers of advanced and fatal prostate cancers, may shed further light on this question," Park's team concludes.

SOURCE: American Journal of Epidemiology, December 1, 2008.

http://news.aol.com/health/story/_a/nonfat-low-fat-milk-linked-to-cancer/20080102175409990001

[gods sun]

ye ye milk gives you cancer so does bannanas etc all lies, you do knw the hormones in milk are destroyed when u swallow it lol the hormones dont survive and dont even reach the stomach. the hormone is hgh growth hormone if we ever digested the natrual hromone that the cow produces then we all will be monsters.

[megafish33]

The low and nonfat versions don't allow you to absorb the utilize the nutrients in raw whole-fat milks. The vitamin D in fortified milks is just excessive vitamin supplementation... the whole raw milk allows your body to do what it's supposed to, make vitamin D from your "excess" cholesterol. I've had skimmed raw milk and it tastes a hell of a lot better than average grocery store skimmed milk. The raw one just has its butterfat skimmed, which means less nutrients but also less calories. The pasteurized and homogenized versions are full of other crap... look up the dairy science. Now, I'm not all against pasteurized milk but...

RealMilk.com (http://www.realmilk.com/)

[2tuff]

ye ye milk gives you cancer so does bannanas etc all lies, you do knw the hormones in milk are destroyed when u swallow it lol the hormones dont survive and dont even reach the stomach. the hormone is hgh growth hormone if we ever digested the natrual hromone that the cow produces then we all will be monsters.

This sounds interesting, do you some have some decent links?

[fransetter]

FS, check out this interview, esp. if you are a meat-eater. http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html Then go to Cousen's web site. All of the health challenges you have are due to toxicity. They will ALL disappear in 30-90 days depending! You have to do it tho! Take responsibility for your own health. I have fasted on juice/water up to 50 days, and I am going to do a 60 day soon. There is nothing better for your health. NOTHING!!!! physically, mentally, or spiritually. Read about RAW foods, as much as you can, also. good luck. :)

I guess all of the health challenges I have are due to do with the crap I had eaten over the years. Since about July of last year I have been eating about 70-80% raw, organic - from sources I am familiar with. No meat. Haven't eaten meat in years. Since going raw, I am noticing 'some' improvements in 'some' respects, but I am still having periods where I would feel better off not being alive at all. A friend of mine who started the raw diet shortly after me, is absolutely zinging with energy now, but then again she didn't go into raw eating as a result of any serious illness. Somebody on the Addison's Disease forum told me that it took him about 3 years of raw living before he was able to declare himself healthy again. That person has actually managed to get himself off steroids, with his adrenal glands working properly again, which means he has reversed the condition! Something which the Addison's Disease Support Group and Endocrinologists would have you believe is impossible.

Well, we will see. The fact that this guy took time to email me with his message of support has given me something to aim for. I would love to be able to live without having to artificially put steroids into my body on a daily basis in order to survive. The steroids I am on are not to mask the illness, but to replace what my body will not produce naturally anymore. It has resulted in my becoming quite fat, which people who don't know me believe is caused by over eating. Very frustrating when I eat raw, vegetarian, hardly any carbs, as I cannot eat bread, cakes, biscuits etc. due to Coeliacs disease.

With Addison's, an adenoma, Coeliacs and a B12 deficiency, it all points towards years of abuse of my digestive system. I don't know if the B12 deficiency was cause by my time of being vegan or not. Certainly putting dairy products back into my diet hasn't helped in that respect. Not one iota. I still have the deficiency. In fact if anything, I feel like throwing up after eating eggs, so they are off the menu from now on.

One thing though, raw milk does seem to be giving me more energy!!! I have also recently started adding Marmite to my diet, as this contains B12. I used to hate the stuff, but all of a sudden, I actually like it, which suggests that my body may well need it.

2Tuff, what do you think about raw milk giving me more energy? am I right to continue using it or not?

FS:confused:

[swoarg]

hi there
try goats milk i have an intolarnce to cows milk and margerine so i either use powderd milk or goats milk i figure ur body needs some thing from milk dont know what maybe carbs calcium an vit d and if ur not getting any carbs then you wont have any staying power or energy
not that i know but goats milk yogart an cheese seems to help me out especialy with my digestive system i think there naturaly probiotic which will help digest all that vegy stuff which i should think ur lacking like i say i dont know
but for me if i wer a vegy person i would be looking for some thing to help digest and brake down those vegys
apples for me seem to detoxify my system and make me feel good dont know why but some days if i feel abit down
and achy an apple works a treat but i am no professional
do you use salt try using a bit more salt get some good quality salt which seems to help me some times and do you have any spices in ur diet try some if you dont but use fresh seeds and crush them ur self fresh herbs can be good too water cress an basil are suppose to be good for ur digestive system like i say i am no proff but have felt crap most of my life and have experimented with most foods to try an make me feel better theres a good chance you might have an intolerance to some thing ur eating which wont help start to make a diary on what you eat and how you feel i hope this helps in some way excerise and fresh air just go for a walk short or long helps me too but i am no proff i am just trying to help

[nickatnoon61]

I guess all of the health challenges I have are due to do with the crap I had eaten over the years. Since about July of last year I have been eating about 70-80% raw, organic - from sources I am familiar with. No meat. Haven't eaten meat in years. Since going raw, I am noticing 'some' improvements in 'some' respects, but I am still having periods where I would feel better off not being alive at all. A friend of mine who started the raw diet shortly after me, is absolutely zinging with energy now, but then again she didn't go into raw eating as a result of any serious illness. Somebody on the Addison's Disease forum told me that it took him about 3 years of raw living before he was able to declare himself healthy again. That person has actually managed to get himself off steroids, with his adrenal glands working properly again, which means he has reversed the condition! Something which the Addison's Disease Support Group and Endocrinologists would have you believe is impossible.

Well, we will see. The fact that this guy took time to email me with his message of support has given me something to aim for. I would love to be able to live without having to artificially put steroids into my body on a daily basis in order to survive. The steroids I am on are not to mask the illness, but to replace what my body will not produce naturally anymore. It has resulted in my becoming quite fat, which people who don't know me believe is caused by over eating. Very frustrating when I eat raw, vegetarian, hardly any carbs, as I cannot eat bread, cakes, biscuits etc. due to Coeliacs disease.

With Addison's, an adenoma, Coeliacs and a B12 deficiency, it all points towards years of abuse of my digestive system. I don't know if the B12 deficiency was cause by my time of being vegan or not. Certainly putting dairy products back into my diet hasn't helped in that respect. Not one iota. I still have the deficiency. In fact if anything, I feel like throwing up after eating eggs, so they are off the menu from now on.

One thing though, raw milk does seem to be giving me more energy!!! I have also recently started adding Marmite to my diet, as this contains B12. I used to hate the stuff, but all of a sudden, I actually like it, which suggests that my body may well need it.

2Tuff, what do you think about raw milk giving me more energy? am I right to continue using it or not?

FS:confused:fransy, the Master Cleanser is very popular and I have been doing it for 30 years! Forget about milk, at least until you become detoxified. R U A BABY???? Did you go to Cousen's site? You are right, all these fancy-named dis-eases are horseshit and designed to keep you on the deadly pharmaceuticals! YOU ARE TOXIC!!!! Keep it simple! GO SLOW! YOU WILL BE GETTING HEALING CRISISES AS YOU DETOXIFY. KEEP ON THE DETOX DIET THO! EVERY DAY WILL GET BETTER! Wheatgrass, RAW vegan/LIVING FOODS!!! Read anything by Ann Wigmore. There is tons of info on the net! ALOS LOOK INTO COLON-CLEANSING.I am talking EXPERIENCE, and I never get sick! Well a few hundred hang-overs, in the past, but I am finished that crap too!!!!(=.Goin for a FIR sauna. It detoxs heavy metals!!! cya,bud.....

[fransetter]

Did you go to Cousen's site?

Read anything by Ann Wigmore.

I sure did, and have now located Ann Wigmore website and will look more into the livings foods :-D

Thanks for the encouragement :)

Fransy

[nickatnoon61]

I sure did, and have now located Ann Wigmore website and will look more into the livings foods :-D

Thanks for the encouragement :)

Fransy U R welcome,Fransetter. Look at my signature and find out more about The Ringing Cedars oils, and nuts. I am trying to qcquire some at the moment! Very therapeutic!!!

[cew91]

download this movie http://www.stage6.com/user/keldhar/video/1463861/Earthlings-(sub-spanish) and you will see about meat, milk and everything else produced from animals (warning shocking)

[2tuff]

FS, check out this interview, esp. if you are a meat-eater. http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html Then go to Cousen's web site. All of the health challenges you have are due to toxicity. They will ALL disappear in 30-90 days depending! You have to do it tho! Take responsibility for your own health. I have fasted on juice/water up to 50 days, and I am going to do a 60 day soon. There is nothing better for your health. NOTHING!!!! physically, mentally, or spiritually. Read about RAW foods, as much as you can, also. good luck. :)

Sorry incorrect. People can band around and claim it takes three months on a raw lifestyle to cure all disease. This is complete nonsense. I've done it. Did it clear up my Eczema I had? NO, it made it far worse and it wasn't a detox reaction before any idiot steps in with this. What did cure my Eczema? Fasting, Mid Thoracic Chiropacting and going back to a normal diet but without the chemicals. Also Iodine and Virgin Coconut Oil. Thats just one example and theres many more. Don't believe all the hype my friend!

[nickatnoon61]

Sorry incorrect. People can band around and claim it takes three months on a raw lifestyle to cure all disease. This is complete nonsense. I've done it. Did it clear up my Eczema I had? NO, it made it far worse and it wasn't a detox reaction before any idiot steps in with this. What did cure my Eczema? Fasting, Mid Thoracic Chiropacting and going back to a normal diet but without the chemicals. Also Iodine and Virgin Coconut Oil. Thats just one example and theres many more. Don't believe all the hype my friend!To you it is nonsense, and I am not surprised! I LIVE IT, FFSAKES!!!Over 30 years PERSONAL experience!!! Your negative mindset, is your biggest challenge! I am not really interested in your advice on health matters, or debating.You seem to already know it all, so what do you need me for!! Too funny!!! I take advice from people who have unlimited health like myself. I see someone who looks 20 years younger,than their age, and ask them for advice. Come and see me when you are 60, if you are still alive!!!!

[2tuff]

Typical response from someone in denial of truth. I've done all these diets myself and I'm far better now than I was on any of them. I was a gatekeeper like yourself protecting my beliefs against people who said the same thing to me. You know what? I was a damn fool because I simply wouldn't accept anything they said. I wish I had now as it would have saved me a lot of time, effort, hassles and problems. I'm not negative my friend, I promote what works.

Just because I know this trash talk that this works in this and that works in that, is just that trash doesn't mean I'm negative. It's called being a realist. Can you explain why three years of Raw food eating only gave me Eczema and certainly didn't remove it haha? You like Zappers and attacking traditional foods. For Godsake I can supply much to debunk all this junk talk out there. Been there and done it period. Want to argue that I haven't? If you knew me for a good time you'll certainly know I've promoted it all in the past. I've been attacked for u-turning on most of it. I do not care. I promote what I believe and know to work. When it doesn't I will tell and change. Most these diets are good for a short time but then with most people that doesn't last before problems arise. My friend I look far less than my age and I've had comments. I can show you people in China living on COOKED foods and plenty of animal products that would destroy you and their in their old age. Big deal! Most peoples aging in the West is simply down to Alcohol abuse and Coffee period! But you go on in a dream world son.

Now you call me a know it all, maybe I am and I deserve to be somewhat, with all the work I've put in and experience. But alas if you step back and look at yourself you'll see eventually that you are this know it all as you simply cannot see other than what you're now following and pushing. We do get indoctrinated with dribble twice, three times over and not just from birth haha. It's harder to remove yourself that extra time, when you do then your almost truely free. I hope you acquire this soon and I will accept your apology when it comes hopefully. Take care, but please don't promote poisons like Colloidal Silver and wannabe miracle gadgets like Zappers haha I'll stick to the Chiro, herbs, Diet, light, oils and exercise haha.

[nickatnoon61]

[QUOTE=2tuff;240997][B]Typical response from someone in denial of truth.

How old are you, son????? :rolleyes:I am probably old enough to be your father, and in better shape, physically, than you will ever be in. Whatever works for you. You are the one telling me what DOESN'T work, for me FFSakes! Like I said to another member recently. 2tuff comes off as a know it all, with bad manners! :eek:

[cl2008]

what about soya milk?

[Ratiocinator]

Many people think that soy milk is the only milk alternative. But this simply is not true. Many people do not like the taste of soy milk, and so stick with the animal variety (big mistake). I know some people who recently became vegan. They did switch to soy milk and said that they became used to its taste after a little while. The problem with most people is they are not willing to give things a chance if they do not take to them straight away.

I tend not to recommend soy because of the controversy surrounding it. Some say it is fine, others say not (2tuff swears it is poison). Soy is not needed as there are plenty of plant milks:

oat milk,

rice milk,

hemp milk,

almond milk,

quinoa milk,

etcetera.

In fact nearly any seed or nut can be used to make milk. I made my own hemp milk a while ago, and it was easy. I soaked some hemp seeds over night, then I crushed them (I used a twin-screw juicer, but a food processor or similar equipment would do), and using a sieve (coffee filter is good too) I filtered water over the hemp pulp and into a container below.

The liquid that resulted was a pure white hemp milk, which is one of the healthiest drinks imaginable.

Any seed, nut or so on, can be made into plant milk this way. In fact soaking them is not strictly necessary; many people recommend simply putting the nuts, beans or seeds into a food processor, grinding them up and then filtering water over the powder/ pulp.

Plant milk is highly nutritious, and seeds, nuts, etcetera, can be stored for a very long time. It is also actually possible to buy plant milk making machines that do all the work; put seeds, etc., and water into them, switch them on, and they produce milk. They cost around 50 to 60 pounds:

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/images/milk_maker_yaoh.jpg

http://www.totalrawfood.com/products/&c=equipment&r=other-raw-food-time-saving-machines&p=raw-nut--seed-milk-maker&cat=14&range=48&product=117

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/73000051/Images/1/soy_milk_maker_005.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soyquick-Soy-Milk-Maker-OVERSTOCK-SALE_W0QQitemZ190189419540QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20685 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/Yaoh-Raw-Hemp-Milk-Maker-pr-95.html

[nickatnoon61]

AIDS, CANCER CURED BY HYPER-OXYGENATION

In 1988 this article started a mini revolution in the alternative health care community because of its information on hydrogen peroxide and ozone. BY WAVES FOREST
Several dozen AIDS patients have not only reversed their death sentences, but are now back at work, completely free of the disease. They destroyed the virus in their blood by hyper-oxygenation, known in various forms as oxygen therapy, bio-oxydative therapy or auto-hemotherapy.
THis is a simple, invexpensive and very broad spectrum healing process that many feel could force a complete overhaul of the medical industry. The two basic types of oxygen therapy are ozone blood infusion, and absorption of oxygen water (hydrogen peroxide) at very low concentrations.
It turns out that the AIDS virus cannot tolerate high oxygen levels in its victims' blood. Not only that, every other disease organism tested so far apparently has the same weakness. Even cancer growths contract and disappear when the oxygen saturation is sufficiently increased in the fluids surrounding them, since they are anaerobic.
AIDS, herpes, hepatitis, Epstein Barr, cytomeglaovirus and other lipid envelope virus are readily destroyed by hyper-oxygenating the patient's blood with ozone. This was demonstrated by, among others, Dr. Horst Kief in Bad Hersfeld, West Germnay.
Dr. Kief has already cured a number of AIDS victims by drawing blood, infusing it with ozone and returning it to the patient, at regular intervals until all the virus is gone. (He can be reached through Biozon Ozon-Technik GmbH, An Der Haune #10, Bad Hersfeld, D-6430, Federal Republic of Germany.) Dr. S. Rilling of Stuttgart and Dr. Renate Viebahn of Iffezheim are among the growing number of physicians who have obtained similar results with their patients.
They are with Arztlich Gesellschaft fur Ozontherapie and JrJ Hansler GmbH, respectively.
THE BASIS OF BIO-OXIDATIVE THERAPIES
For many years the health sciences have been seeking to identify the primary pbysical cause of all diseases, and the cure-all that this basic principle would yield. Now both have been found, but their utter simplicity makes them difficult to accept at first, since it seems lilke if it's that easy, we should have been using them all along.
Our bodies are composed mostly of water, which is eight-ninths oxygen. Most nutritional studies tend to get caught up in the small details of biochemistry and overlook our most abundant and essential element, and the fundamental role of its depletion in causing illness. Of all the elements the body needs, only oxygen is in such constant demand that its absence brings death in minutes.
The main difference, for healing purposes, between benign micro-organisms (including our own cells), and those which cause disease, is that the latter require much lower oxygen levels. This is due to their more primitive evolutionary origins, during the ages when free oxygen was far less abundant.
Now their descendants can only survive in low-oxygen environments such as accompany stagnation and decay. To become a growth medium for such parasites, one has to have allowed the oxygen saturation of the body's fluids to drop well below the optimum level for healthy cell growth and function.
The simplest substances available for restoring one's oxygen balance to a healthy range are ozone (O3), and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), which is much easier to obtain and use. These are both highly toxic when concentrated, which has tended to obscure their germicidal value except as a skin antiseptic.
But when diluted to therapeutic levels (for H2O2, 1/2 of 1% or less), they are not only non-toxic but uniquely beneficial.
OZONE BLOOD TREATMENT
Ozone overcomes the AIDS virus by a fundamentally different process than usually attempted with drugs. Instead of burdening the liver and immune system with more elaborate toxic substances, ozone simply oxidizes the molecules in the shell of the virus.
The treatment is remarkably simple. The ozone is produced by forcing oxygen through a metal tube carrying a 300-volt charge.
A pint of blood is drawn from the patient and placed in an infusion bottle. The ozone is then forced into the bottle and mixed in by shaking gently, whereupon the blood turns bright cardinal red. As the ozone molecules dissolve into the blood they give up their third oxygen atom, releasing considerable energy which destroys all lipid-envelope virus, and apparently most other disease organisms as well, while leaving blood cells unharmed.
It also oxygenates the blood to a greater degree than is usually reached, what with poor air and sluggish breathing habits. The treated blood is then given back to the patient. This treatment is given from twice a week to twice a day, depending on how advanced the disease is. The strengthened blood confers some of its virucidal properties to the rest of the patient's blood as it disperses.
The disease will not return, as long as the patient maintains his blood in an oxygen-positive state, through proper breathing, exercise, and clean diet.
A Dr. Preuss, in Stuttgart, has written up ten case histories of AIDS patients he has cured by this method. But his and the other physicians' reports of cures are all anecdotal rather than in the form of "controlled studies," since they could not be expected to treat some patients and deny treatment to others just for the purpose of accumulating evidence.
Thus their results are not considered "prrof" by the U.S. medical community. So the Medizone Company in New York has taken on the task of doing the controlled studies required for the treatment to be approved in the U.S. for general use.
MEDIZONE TESTING OZONE BLOOD TREATMENT
Last summer Medizone obtained from the FDA and IND (Investigative New Drug) approval for ozone, which falls under the heading of drugs even though it isn't.
They verified that ozone destroys the AIDS virus in vitro, and completetd their animal tests in the fall of 1986. The tests demonstrated no indication of toxicity, at ten times the equivalent amount that is proposed for human treatment.
The Medizone Co. is at 123 E. 54th St., Ste. 2B, New York, NY 10022; phone is 212-421-0303.
Medizone was granted U.S. Patent #4,632,980 on December 30, 1986, on "inactivating lipid-envelope viruses in blood that is returned to a mammalian host." In humans, this includes AIDS, herpes, hepatitis, Epstein Barr virus, and cytomeglaovirus, among others. Medizone obtained tentative FDA approval in April 1987 to begin human testing, but for a variety of "bureaucratic reasons" the FDA has postponed the actual start of the tests 4 times now, with requests for further data, some of which had already been given to them.
Months have passed, along with several thousand AIDS victims, since the first announced starting date was postponed. The Medizone staff if hoping to finally begin around November 1st, but are no longer announcing expected starting dates with much confidence.
"There are no technical problems, but this is the FDA we're dealing with, after all." As the Company's future hangs on their decision, no one at Medizone wants to risk antagonizing the FDA, by speculating about their actual motives for stalling on a cure for this unprecedented epidemic.
All this has been with virtually no publicity. The official reason for this is that the accepted procedure for publishing medical breakthroughs is to complete all the tests first, even though victims may die waiting for the cautious, methodical testing procedure to run its course. No one in the industry wants to raise false hopes, let alone repeat the medical disasters that have resulted in the past, from rushing approval on new treatments.
On the other hand, the enormously expensive and dubiously effective drug AZT was widely publicized many months before it was approved in the U.S. as its ongoing research into possible AIDS vaccines. In fact, former FDA Commissioner Frank Young has even announced a proposal to make experimental drugs available to AIDS victims as swiftly as possible, without waiting for the full FDA approval procedure to be completed.
So there appears to be a severe double standard involved here. It seems that highly profitable "treatments" with serious side effects can be promoted through massive news coverage, while an actual cure, repeatedly demonstrated in Europe, with minimal cost and no apparent harmful effects, must be delayed and kept quiet while panic and deaths mount. Surely at this state the benefits of unauthorized publicity will outweight the risks.
SAFE PURIFICATION OF BLOOD FOR TRANSFUSIONS
Ozone infusion also provides a simple method of purifying stored blood and blood components, eliminating any possibility of disease being transmitted by transfusion. It also pre-oxygenates blood to be transfused, greatly reducing the burden on the body receiving the blood.
This application alone, of the Medizone process has enormous profit potential, and the treatment will have vast international demand as the news spreads.
This has not gone unnoticed by various investment analysts. Confidential: Report from Zurich, Penny Stock Insider and Low-Priced Stock Edition, among others, are urging their readers to get in on Medizone now, comparing the opportunity to getting in on Zerox, IBM or Polaroid when they were still unknown.
Various physicians have independently discovered ozone to be also effective against cancer, leukemia, arthritis, coronary heart disease, arterial circulation disorders, colitis, gum diseases, and assorted children's diseases. Some of these findings have now been collected and published in the volume, Medical Applications of Ozone, available from the International Ozone Association, 83 Oakwood Terrace, Norwalk, CT 06850.
Some of the medical uses of ozone have been appreciated for hears in Europe, Brazil and elsewhere, as well as its advantages over chlorine for water treatment (no toxic residues, 5000 times more rapid disinfection) but it's still relatively unknown in the U.S.
OXYGEN WATER
A much simpler type of Oxygen Therapy uses hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), which is what ozone (O3) forms on contact with water.
It can be taken orally if diluted with water to 1/200 or less, absorbed through the skin by bathing in it (anywhere from 1-8 pints of 3% H2O2 in a standard size bathtub half full), or in severe cases it can be injected (250 cc of .075% to .15%, or roughly 1/1300 to 1/650). Injections obviously require a physician's assistance, but self-treatment is possible with oral and skin applications.
The principle is the same as with ozone blood treatment. All hostile microorganisms prefer lower oxygen levels than the body's cells require to remain healthy. Boosting the oxygen level revitalizes normal cells while killing virus and other pathogens.
The domestic sales of hydrogen peroxide are rising at 15% per year, as the news of this option spreads at the grassroots level. The rapid expansion of the peroxide movement is especially remarkable considering there has been almost no media coverage, and in fact the FDA, American Cancer Society and other enforcers of established medicine have tried hard to discourage the practice.
Hydrogen peroxide is the only germicidal agent composed only of water and oxygen. Like ozone, it kills disease organisms by oxidation as it spreads through the patient's tissues.
This also destroys cancerous growths which are anaerobic. Nobel Prizewinner Dr. Otto Warbug demonstrated over fifty years ago the basic difference between normal cells and cancer cells. Both drive energy from glucose, but the normal cell requires oxygen to combine with the glucose, while cancer cells break down glucose without oxygen, yielding only 1/15 the enrgy per glucose molecule that a normal cell produces.
This is why cancer cells have such a huge appetite for sugar, and also why people who consume excessive quantities of sugar tend to get cancer more often.
The anaerobic breakdown of glucose by cancer cells forms large amounts of lactic acid as a waste product, the same substances formed by fermentation of lactose, as in spoiled milk. The liver converts some of this back into glucose, in an attempt to salvage a food source from a toxic waste.
In doing this the liver only uses 1/5 the energy per glucose molecule that a normal cell can then derive from it, but that's three times the energy a cancer cell will get from it. The more the weak, deranged cancer cells multiply, the more energy is lost to the normal cells. Thus we find that low levels of both oxygen and energy tend to occur where cancer is present, and vice versa.
This wasteful metabolism becomes self sustaining and dominant unless the oxygen and/or energy levels are sharply increased, or the cancer's food source eliminated.
HEART TRANSPLANT PIONEER RECOMMENDS OXYGEN WATER
Dr. Christian Bernard, who performed the first heart transplant, said in March 1986 that he was taking peroxide and water himself, several times daily to reduce arthiritis and aging, and he recommended it highly at that time.
Since then he has come under heavy attack by the medical establishment for this position, and now states that he "is not involved" with the peroxide movement. But he does not retract his original endorsement, nor deny that he still uses it personally.
Over a hundred physicians are already curing a broad assortment of "incurables" with this natural antimicrobial agent. This includes some forty or more in the U.S. A principal liaison to these free-thinking physicians is Dr. Charles H. Farr, who wrote The Therapeutic Use of Intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide.
He directs the International Bio-Oxidative Medicine Foundation, and publishes the IBOM newsletter which contains procedural updates and technical refinements for physicians using intravenous H2O2 therapy on their patients. By classifying the treatments as experimental they can get around the FDA's archaic restrictions for now, until massive public demand and/or meida exposure force official approval.
Dr. Farr summarizes the beneficial effects of H2O2 in IBOM issue #2; these include killing bacteria, protozoa, yeast, and virus, oxidizing lipids from arterial walls, increasing oxygen tension intracellularly, stimulating oxidative enzymes, returning elasticity to arterial walls, dilating coronary vessels, and regulating membrane transport.
H2O2 CAN BE SELF ADMINISTERED
The oral and skin applications offer the option of home treatment as no blood needs to be drawn, and hydrogen peroxide is cheap and plentiful. Keep it diluted though; in high concentrations it can irritate sensitive skin and induce vomiting when ingested. (Veterinarians routinely give common 3% H2O2 to animals that have swallowed poison, to make them throw it up.)
The starting dosage is one ounce of .5% (1/200) H2O2 in water, and some will find they need to start with less. As the peroxide contacts pathogens in the stomach it liberates free oxygen, so those with high levels of virus and streptococcus in their stomachs may feel slight nausea while the reaction is occuring.
The dosage is increased by an ounce per day, up to five ounces on the fifth day, then finally up to five ounces three times daily for a week (or until disease is no longer present). Then the dosage is tapered back down over a five-week period.
Food-grade or Re-agent (these are 35%, dangerous if undiluted) is better for internal use since the common USP 3% H2O2 contains small amounts of chemical stabilizers and other impurities. It can still be used if food grade is unavailable; it just isnt' as pure.
An alternate dosage regimen uses three drops of 35% H2O2 in a glass of water, three times a day, which is then increased by a drop per dose, per day, up to 25 drops per dose in extreme cases. Candidiasis victims should start at one drop per dose, and build their tolerance gradually. Some find the taste rather bleachy and unpleasant, and may wish to chase it with plain water. It can also be mixed with fruit juice, and citrus juices in particular cover the taste pretty well.
Adding seven drops of 35% H2O2 to a gallon of drinking water and shaking well purifies it and gives it a pleasant waterfall-like flavor.
For more dosage details and extensive references on H2O2 to a gallon of drinking water and shaking well purifies it and gives it a pleasant waterfall-like flavor.
These gentlemen have continued the research initiated by Dr. Edward Carl Rosenow (1875-1966). They have located over 4000 peer-reviewed medical articles on the applications of hydrogen peroxide, some dating back to the 1800's.
They received the National Health Federations Pioneer Award in Medicine three years ago for this ongoing research. Walter Grotz, in particular, has been touring and lecturing extensively on the benefits of self-adminstered H2O2, literally saving lives wherever he goes, and bringing hope to people who had been told their cases were hopeless.
Dr. Kurt W. Donsbach at the Bio-Genesis Institute in Rosarita Beach, Baja Mexico (619-428-8585), has achieved a remission rate exceeding 70% in over 300 patients, at last count, most of whom had been previously told they were beyond hope, and had "tried everything else." Bio-oxidative therapies are now applied to all cases that arrive at this clinic, and all respond except for some of those who arrive already very close to death. The Guadalajara Medical School, Mexico's largest, is initiating their own tests this summer, and will add it to their curriculum upon verification.
As Dr. Donsbach has pointed out, no U.S. clinic or institution has ever tested intravenous H2O2 as a treatment for cancer, so any claim
that is not effective is not based on clinicl trial, and amount to willful disinformation.
The Gerson Institute and La Gloria Clinic in Mexico are also using hydrogen peroxide therapies on their patients, after the staff tested it on themselves and found it to be beneficial.
HYDROGEN PEROXIDE IN NATURE
Hydrogen peroxide occurs naturally in rain and snow, from atmospheric ozone, and in mountain streams where rushing water is continuously aerated. Most of us learned at an early age to drink from a stream only where the water's running white, because that's where it gets cleansed of germs. The reason is that H2O2 is forming there due to the water's rapid agitation, and that's what kills any harmful microbes present.
By just shaking a bottle of water vigorously for a while you can tuck enough extra oxygen into it to form detectable amounts of H2O2, improving its purity, flavor and vitality.
It turns out that the spring waters at Lourdes, France, long recognized for their remarkable healing properties, are very high in natural hydrogen peroxide. The spring is fed by high-altitude snowmelt, so the snow apparently absorbs unusually large quantities of ozone on its way from the upper atmosphere. Other less-known high altitude springs are said to be likewise effective.
Similar benefits can be obtained in a swimming pool or hot tub, by discarding the chlorination system and simply pouring in H2O2 or by bubbling ozone through the water. One simple method of making pool-grade ozone is to pump air past aon enclosed ultra-violet lamp.
Raw, uncooked vegetables and fruits contain natural hydrogen peroxide. Cooking drives off the extra oxygen. Fresh fruit juices are well known for their blood-cleansing and revitalizing capabilities, particularly when they are not combined with other foods; this is largely due to the H2O2 they contain. Reconstituted frozen juices have much less, and are no longer "alive," thus they are not nearly as effective.
H2O2 IS HEART OF IMMUNE SYSTEM
Mother's milk contains a high amount of H2O2, especially colostrum, the first milk secreted after birth, which activates the newborn's immune system. H2O2 is the first line of the body's defense systems, and key to many other metabolic processes.
Under conditions of optimum health, H2O2 is produced by the body's defense systems, and key to many other metabolic processes.
Under conditions of optimum health, H2O2 is produced by the body's immune system in whatever amounts are needed to quickly destroy any invading hostile organisms. It is made by combining water in the body with the free oxygen that is supposed to be constantly available. When the body is oxygen-starved, it can't produce enough H2O2 to wipe out invading pathogens, which can then get the upper hand and cause visible disease.
OXYGEN BOOST IS KEY TO OTHER HEALING METHODS
When penicillin is effective against infection, it is largely due to the formation of bactericidal amounts of H2O2, when glucose is oxidized by O2 in the presence of penicillium notatin. (General Biochemistry, Fruton & Simmonds 577.1 F944 p. 339)
Much has been made of the healing properties of Interferon, but it is unbelievably expensive. However, much of its effectiveness is apparently due to the fact that it stimulates production of H2O2 and other oxygen intermediates, which are a key factor in reactivating the immune system. (Journal of Interferon Research Vol. 3, #2,1983 p. 143-151.)
Thus Interferon may turn out to be simply a very elaborate way to accomplish essentially the same thing as the H2O2 regimen.
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) has long been recognized as essential to the proper use of oxygen by the cells. Dr. Linus Pauling has demonstrated that large doses of Vitamin C are effective against cancer. The mainstream medical community still has not acknowledged this discovery, let alone put it to use, despite Dr. Pauling's credentials. As it turns out, vitamin C actually creates extra H2O2 in the body.
Organic Germanium (bis-carboxyethyl germanium sesquioxide) is gaining increasing recognition as a potent healing substance, primarily through the work of Dr. Kazuhiko Asai. This compound directly increases the body's oxygen supply, as it contains a great deal of oxygen in a form that can be easily assimilated. (See Miracle Cure; Organic Germanium by Dr. Assai, Japan Publications, Inc., Tokyo and New York.)
Taheebo (aka Pau D'Arco or Lapacho Colorado) is a tree that grows in the Andes and fixes high concentrations of oxygen in crytalline form into its inner bark. The bark has been used for centuries by the native peoples of the area to prevent and reverse illnesses, and it is one reason why they do not get cancer.
In recent years it has become popular in the U.S., and it gets by the FDA as an "herbal tea" whose distributors wisely make no medical claims for it. Again, much of its effectiveness is apparently due to its high oxygen content, released in solution when brewed as a tea.
CAUSES OF OXYGEN DEPLETION
There are several very common practices that drop a person's oxygen level far below where it should ideally be. At sea level, 20% of the atmosphere is supposed to be oxygen, but city air goes down as low as 10%, due to smog and removal of trees. Air that tastes bad induces a tendency to breathe shallowly, getting even less oxygen to the blood. So does lack of exercise.
The carbon monoxide (CO) in smog does not normally occur in nature in much quantity since it's formed by incomplete combustion of carbon compounds. It is electrically unbalanced, so it seeks to bond with any available oxygen to form the more stable carbon dioxide (CO2).
Those who breathe too much carbon monoxide tend to die fast or slow depending on the concentration. It strips oxygen molecules from the blood to form CO2, which the body can't use and must exhale, at least until its oxygen runs out. The fact that the body considers CO2, a waste product, by the way, doesn't say much for carbonated beverages.
Tap water is very low in oxygen, having had no opportunity to be aerated during its journey through the pipes, and being loaded down with chlorine and various contaminants. Since cooking drives the extra oxygen out of vegetables, if one's diet is mostly cooked or processed foods, there's yet another oxygen source lost.
EATING FASTING AND OXYGEN BALANCE
Overeating is so common in the U.S. it's considered "normal". One cause is the widespread use of oral antibiotics. While destroying the target germs, these drugs also kill off one's intestinal flora, which are needed for healthy digestion. With these friendly bacteria gone, digestive efficiency plummets.
As a result, the sensation of hunger comes more often and lasts longer, as the body tries to compensate for ineffective digestion by increasing the amount consumed.
Even just eating daily, without ever giving the gastrointestinal tract a rest, loads down the blood with toxins and impurities, especially uric acid crystals. Under a microscope these resemble tiny coffin-lids, interestingly enough, another clue to our Creator's whimsical sense of humor.
When the waste products exceed the cleansing capacity of the kidneys, the blood ends up having to just haul it around the body and stash it wherever possible. These toxins literally take up so much room in the blood cells that the cells can't take on enough oxygen when they pass through the lungs. the blood's primary function of picking up and distributing oxygen gets blocked by overuse of the gargabe hauling function.
Fasting restores healthy by giving the overloaded blood cells a chance to dump the toxins and inert matter through normal organs of elimination at a rate they can handle, instead of through the skin, as in acne, or other inappropriate places. If the fast is long enough, accumulated residues in the body are also scoured out and expelled, giving a considerable spiritual resurgence once all the backlog is cleared away.
While the debris is flushing out, various toxic reactions may come and go. Once the blood is cleansed the red corpuscles have a lot more room for oxygen moleucles, the oxygen saturation of the tissues is high, and health and energy are boosted considerably. Each breath now gives more life than it was able to in the blood's earlier state.
Most long-lived native peoples, who are not affected by our our common diseases, either include fasting as a regular part of their yearly food cycles, or eat much less overall, than industrialized peoples.
Today many Americans are existing at such high levels of toxicity, that their toxic reactions when attempting to fast can seem intense enough to make them start eating again before any serious cleansing can be accomplished.
Fortunately one can partially bypass the lungs and get the blood oxygen level back up, by taking oxygenated water internally and through the skin. Several weeks of detoxification with this regimen will also make it much easier to fast without discomfort, if one chooses. It reduces appetite, logically enough, to a level more in line with the body's actual needs.
The bacteria that aid digestion are not killed by oral use of H2O2, as long as it's diluted properly.
OXYWATER MAY EVEN CURE STUPIDITY
Perhaps the greatest potentiakl benefit is the reversal of the lsight brain damage cuased by long-term oxygen depletion, which can be observed in the "average" human, and is sometimes not all that slight.
It's well known that after about 9 minutes of no oxygen, from drowning or whatever, you can kiss your brain goodbye. But the implications of constant gradual oxygen starvation in our cities somehow escape notice, despite the tiredness, depression, irritability, poor judgement and health problems affecting so many citizens.
Increasing the oxygen supply to the brain and nervous system will reverse these conditions. The oxygwater regimen improves alertness, reflexes, memory and apparently intelligence, and may offer the eledery a new weapon against senility and related disorders.
Alzheimer's and Parkinson's are reported to be responding to it. Alcoholics who start taking H2O2 soon lose interest in alcohol, and the thirst does not come back. Look up what alcohol does with your blood oxygen and your ability to use it, and you'll see why.
One possible spin-off of a coming major increase in the blood oxygen supply to human brains is that various short-sighted oxygen-depleting activities such as deforestation, and other unintelligent practices, should fade from the scene. Americans especially, will have an opportunity to outgrow many stupid things.
It's strange that the common drug aspirin "stops pain" by interfering with the nervous systems ability to use oxygen, in the electrochemical reactions needed to transmit impulses.
Though maybe it's not that strange, considering that the Bayer Company which originated it was a subsidiary of IG Farben, the German chemical conglomerate that is famous for, among other things, developing and mass-producing the lethal gas Zyklon-Bk specifically for exterminations at Nazi death camps.
ECONOMIC INERTIA
Dr. Terry McGrath, the CEO at Medizone, confirmed that hydrogen peroxide would in principle act much like ozone in destroying the AIDS virus, but pointed out that it's never likely to be tested and proven in the laboratory.
There's simply no economic incentive, since it's an unpatentable process and offers no more commericial returns than most other natural remedies. So it's completely up to the individual patients and concerned citizens to push these options out into the open, immediately, before various companies get too financially committed to the assumption that AIDS (or any other disease) will continue to spread and be incurable.
This is as good a place as any for the FDA-required disclaimer: "Information given here is for research and educational purposes only and is not intended to prescribe treatment."
VERTERINARY AND AGRICULTURAL APPLICATIONS
Humans aren't the only life form that benefits from compensation for their oxygen-deficient air, water and/or lifestyle. H2O2 in animals drinking water, not enough to taste unpleasant, knocks out a growing list of illnesses.
Locally, cats have gotten rid of their feline leukemia and chlamydia, and are back to their old energetic slapstick selves. Distemper in dogs has been reversed with H2O2, and a growing number of farmers are applying it to their livestock to cut losses from disease and infected wounds.
Plants grow better with an ounce of 3% H2O2 per quart of water they're given. Spray the solution on their leaves as well. Seeds germinate faster, with bigger sprouts, when they are first soaked in 1 ounce of 3% H2O2 to a pint of water. Instead of cutting trees that are diseased or otherwise struggling, spray them with H2O2 and water (1 part 3% to 32 parts water).
WHY ISN'T THIS ALREADY IN USE?
The obvious question is, if hyperoxygenation is so simple and effective, why has it taken so long to discover it? Ozone is hardly new and hydrogen peroxide has been on the market for over a century. Why aren't all the doctors already using it? How come this story isn't all over the major news outlets?
Turning the question around helps clarify the problem. Just exactly what would happen if a cure was discovered that was completely effective against the vast majority of diseases, ridiculously cheap and plentiful, and in most cases could be self administered without a physician?
Would the current medical establishment welcome a breatkthrough that could render 98% of all drugs, testing and disease related surgery obsolete? What would the response be of the pharmaceutical industrialists, hospital chain owners, health insurance moguls, AMA, and FDA?
Would you expect to read of hear such an announcement from any medical journal or media outlet owned by people financially committed to the medical status quo, which is practically all of them? How many want to help their own occupation become unnecessary?
And if the cure had already been suppressed once, wouldn't the possible blame for allowing people to die without it provide even more incentive to continue keeping the whole thing quite?
All right then. This is precisely the situation that exists,and the cure has indeed been around for ages. It has been independently reported effective against virtually every disease at one time or another, in thousands of public-domain medical articles, which had never been collected and correlated until recently. And it is so simple and basic that concealing it from most physicians and the general public has required a tremendous smokescreen or artificial complications, narrow specializations, symptomatic classifications and user hostile treatments.
If this is so, it follows that the more profit-fixated elements of the medical establishment will not be too thrilled about the recent surge of interest in oxygen therapies. The drug industry has expanded enormously since WWII, while America's level of healthhas dropped from the world's highest to the lowest among the industrialized nations. It does look as if the bottom line has been money and not health, for a long time.
The battle for the future of medicine, between Nature's truth and lucrative lies, is about to really heat up. We can expect to see disinformation articles and newscasts with persuasive medical experts, some of whom will even believe what they're saying, warning of the dangers of hyrogen peroxide, ozone, and even regular oxygen.
These reports will attempt to blur the distinction between using therapeutic dosages at safe dilutions, and the harmful effects of excessive concentrations. Plenty of grisly examples are available, of what happens when various tissues are over-oxidized.
Anti-oxygenation propaganda pieces will probably not mention that over the years the FDA has approved H2O2 as a skin antiseptic at full 3% strength, as a hair bleaching agent at 6%, and for internal use as an additive to milk and in aseptic long shelf life packaging.
Nor are they likely to acknowledge that many European countries use ozone and H2O2 in their cities water supply, and that they enjoy much better health than in the U.S. And they will be unable to truthfully cite any examples of people who were harmed by using H2O2 in the correct demonstrated therapeutic concentrations.
It is vital for Americans to realize the current economic dynamics don't allow the businessmen in charge of the health industry any incentive at all, to make people permanently healthy and lose them as customers. It's the same reason why the energy conglomerates do not encourage citizens to become energy-self-sufficient, the Pentagon has no incentive to stop wars, and the American Psychiatric Association sees no advantage to ending mental illness.
Fortunately, the majority of physicians really do want to see their patients get well. They also wouldn't mind regaining the respect and admiration with which physicians were once more widely regarded.
When it comes down to a choice between saving lives and protecting profits, most will be brave enough to overhaul their medical belief systems, discard obsolete methodolgies, and basically tell the pharmaceutical conglomerates to go shove it. The rest will simply get left behind.
SOURCES FOR FOOD-GRADE HYDROGEN PEROXIDE
Most pharmacists have never even heard of it, so it's usually a waste of time to ask them. A number of chemical supply houses have 35% H2O2 available; check your local directories and call a few.
Under FDA pressure, DuPont and possible other major chemical companies have recently issued warnings to their distributors, not to sell hydrogen peroxide to people who want it for healing purposes. So when you inquire, if they ask what you want it for, it will unfortunately be necessary to lie.
If you say you want it as a cleaning agent, that's at least pretty close to the truth.
Several physicians quietly sell it through the mail, but they aren't the same ones promoting its healing properties, for ovious FDA-related reasons. A good source in California, though he can ship it anywhere, is Dr. A.J. McDonald, at P.O. Box 775, Lodi, CA 95240; 209-368-8681/12$/pint.
Your best move would be to share this information with owners of health-food stores in your area. Call them and ask if they have food-grade H2O2 (some already do) and tell them why you want it and how it works. Encourage them to carry it and give them Dr. McDonald's address if they don't seem inclined to track down a local source.
Cleanroom-grade 30% H2O2 (used for cleaning in computer rooms since it is a powerful disinfectant and leaves no residue when it evaporates) is reported to be just as pure as food grade and much cheaper.
Check with labs that make "wafer fabrication" chemicals, or contact the manufacturers of silicon chips and other computer parts, and the data processing complexes that might use it in their cleanrooms, and ask where they buy it. The more sources become known, the harder it will be for anyone to make it unavailable.
GET THE WORD OUT
Write your elected officials, send copies of this information, and point out what will happen to a politician whose constituents learn he knew of a cure for cancer and AIDS but didn't tell them about it. Call in on radio talk shows and share the good news, or send copies to their reporters and program directors, especially at listerner-supported stations as these are less likely to suppress it. Don't assume your local papers have already heard of this; write letters to editors, and/or send copies of this report. Tack it up on every bulletin board you see, and post it on all revelant computer bulletin boards.
If you know teachers, physicians, or health officials who can still think for themselves, tell them about this and give the references. Notify your local police officials that hyper-oxygenation gives them a way of making sure they'll be safe from infection due to contact with AIDS carriers. If you're really feeling bold, walk into the local hospital's cancer wards and hand a copy of this report to anyone who can still read, and slip out the back door before their doctors walk in. Share it with anyone you know who has a health problem, even a minor one; H2O2 apparently works on everything from acne to warts.
Above all, stop buying the idea that cancer, AIDS, and other "terminal" illnesses are automatic death sentences. When you hear some celebrity you like is sick or dying of this or that, look up their mailing address in Who's Who or whatever, and mail them this information. If the address is for an agent, who are notorious for blocking attempted communcations to their client, you might include a cover letter, stating that the enclosed vital news is also being sent to their client's family members, and that if he or she learns through them that there was life-saving information sent but held up at the agent't, that agent will be out of a job. Act like you have the clout it takes to make a difference, and you soon will.
Major scientific breakthroughs go through three stages; first they are ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally they are accepted as having been self-evident all along. Let's see if we can short-cut those first two stages a bit, OK?
FURTHER INFORMATION SOURCES:
Waves Forest, P.O. Box 768, Monterey, CA 93942 or familyhealthnews.com
article is a copyright of Family Health News
Hi, I use most of these oxygen therapies(OZONE,H2O2, AEROBIC OXYGEN,etc.) and I swear by them!


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[nickatnoon61]

Many people think that soy milk is the only milk alternative. But this simply is not true. Many people do not like the taste of soy milk, and so stick with the animal variety (big mistake). I know some people who recently became vegan. They did switch to soy milk and said that they became used to its taste after a little while. The problem with most people is they are not willing to give things a chance if they do not take to them straight away.

I tend not to recommend soy because of the controversy surrounding it. Some say it is fine, others say not (2tuff swears it is poison). Soy is not needed as there are plenty of plant milks:

oat milk,

rice milk,

hemp milk,

almond milk,

quinoa milk,

etcetera.

In fact nearly any seed or nut can be used to make milk. I made my own hemp milk a while ago, and it was easy. I soaked some hemp seeds over night, then I crushed them (I used a twin-screw juicer, but a food processor or similar equipment would do), and using a sieve (coffee filter is good too) I filtered water over the hemp pulp and into a container below.

The liquid that resulted was a pure white hemp milk, which is one of the healthiest drinks imaginable.

Any seed, nut or so on, can be made into plant milk this way. In fact soaking them is not strictly necessary; many people recommend simply putting the nuts, beans or seeds into a food processor, grinding them up and then filtering water over the powder/ pulp.

Plant milk is highly nutritious, and seeds, nuts, etcetera, can be stored for a very long time. It is also actually possible to buy plant milk making machines that do all the work; put seeds, etc., and water into them, switch them on, and they produce milk. They cost around 50 to 60 pounds:

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/images/milk_maker_yaoh.jpg

http://www.totalrawfood.com/products/&c=equipment&r=other-raw-food-time-saving-machines&p=raw-nut--seed-milk-maker&cat=14&range=48&product=117

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/73000051/Images/1/soy_milk_maker_005.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soyquick-Soy-Milk-Maker-OVERSTOCK-SALE_W0QQitemZ190189419540QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20685 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/Yaoh-Raw-Hemp-Milk-Maker-pr-95.html Yes, and thanx, RC, but most of these milks if R store-bought, are pasteurized and therefore DEAD! I make my own from almonds, walnuts(which i get from local trees)etc. I think 2tuff is right about soy milk. I think most is GMO!Which = poison. I am purchasing a Vita Mix soon. My friend made some Walnut Milk the other day, with a bit of maple syrup to sweeten and it was so smooth and creamy! When I make the same milk in my blender it is gritty. NO COMPARISON!!!

[nickatnoon61]

Many people think that soy milk is the only milk alternative. But this simply is not true. Many people do not like the taste of soy milk, and so stick with the animal variety (big mistake). I know some people who recently became vegan. They did switch to soy milk and said that they became used to its taste after a little while. The problem with most people is they are not willing to give things a chance if they do not take to them straight away.

I tend not to recommend soy because of the controversy surrounding it. Some say it is fine, others say not (2tuff swears it is poison). Soy is not needed as there are plenty of plant milks:

oat milk,

rice milk,

hemp milk,

almond milk,

quinoa milk,

etcetera.

In fact nearly any seed or nut can be used to make milk. I made my own hemp milk a while ago, and it was easy. I soaked some hemp seeds over night, then I crushed them (I used a twin-screw juicer, but a food processor or similar equipment would do), and using a sieve (coffee filter is good too) I filtered water over the hemp pulp and into a container below.

The liquid that resulted was a pure white hemp milk, which is one of the healthiest drinks imaginable.

Any seed, nut or so on, can be made into plant milk this way. In fact soaking them is not strictly necessary; many people recommend simply putting the nuts, beans or seeds into a food processor, grinding them up and then filtering water over the powder/ pulp.

Plant milk is highly nutritious, and seeds, nuts, etcetera, can be stored for a very long time. It is also actually possible to buy plant milk making machines that do all the work; put seeds, etc., and water into them, switch them on, and they produce milk. They cost around 50 to 60 pounds:

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/images/milk_maker_yaoh.jpg

http://www.totalrawfood.com/products/&c=equipment&r=other-raw-food-time-saving-machines&p=raw-nut--seed-milk-maker&cat=14&range=48&product=117

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/73000051/Images/1/soy_milk_maker_005.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soyquick-Soy-Milk-Maker-OVERSTOCK-SALE_W0QQitemZ190189419540QQihZ009QQcategoryZ20685 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.energiseyourlife.com/Yaoh-Raw-Hemp-Milk-Maker-pr-95.htmlThanx RC, I am researching the plant milk maker now...

[Ratiocinator]

It is true that if man put a food into a container and onto a shop shelf then that food is most likely dead (been heated) or had other things done to it to render it less than optimal (poisonous), to say the least.

But store-bought plant milks are highly superior to any kind of animal milk at any time. I absolutely recommend making one's own raw, fresh and organic plant milks.

[wolfchild]

For me' it's down to trial & error! i went all raw a few years ago and it made me ill!
I spoke with my doctor about this (believe me)'
I said everytime i go on a crash healthy eating programme i start to look unhealthy & poorly with this horrible complextion and everytime i reverse back to eating junk i look fine.
However my doctor put it down to that maybe the healthy eating is just not for me! I immediately thought that was total bullshit as man was supposed to eat the living foods that the EARTH provides.
I now eat healthy but dont cancel out the junk as it just does not work for me.
ACUPUNCTURE & HERBS this works for me and is fantastic for putting some life back into you''
(Boy does this restore the youth back into you but it has got to be continued as the meridians become blocked again over time through the likes of stress,diet,chemicals and normal day today bad habits.

[Ratiocinator]

You became unwell on your raw diet because:

A) You did not do it properly; perhaps your diet was not balanced and was lacking in certain things or,

B) This is perhaps the most likely reason; your body, on the healthy new unfamiliar foods, went into a state of rapid detox. Due to junk food, etcetera, your body was/is full of toxins. The raw diet perhaps gave your body the opportunity to remove these toxins, and in the process you felt unwell. This is perfectly normal and should be endured for it is only temporary (it is called Herxheimer effects)There is actually an episode of the Simpsons where this happened to Bart, Homer, etc., after Lisa replaced their junk with healthful foods!

[nickatnoon61]

It is true that if man put a food into a container and onto a shop shelf then that food is most likely dead (been heated) or had other things done to it to render it less than optimal (poisonous), to say the least.

But store-bought plant milks are highly superior to any kind of animal milk at any time. I absolutely recommend making one's own raw, fresh and organic plant milks.
Yes RC, I agree 100%!!!!

[nickatnoon61]

For me' it's down to trial & error! i went all raw a few years ago and it made me ill!
I spoke with my doctor about this (believe me)'
I said everytime i go on a crash healthy eating programme i start to look unhealthy & poorly with this horrible complextion and everytime i reverse back to eating junk i look fine.
However my doctor put it down to that maybe the healthy eating is just not for me! I immediately thought that was total bullshit as man was supposed to eat the living foods that the EARTH provides.
I now eat healthy but dont cancel out the junk as it just does not work for me.
ACUPUNCTURE & HERBS this works for me and is fantastic for putting some life back into you''
(Boy does this restore the youth back into you but it has got to be continued as the meridians become blocked again over time through the likes of stress,diet,chemicals and normal day today bad habits. Wolfy, how long did you go RAW for? http://www.newstarget.com/015187.html look at this, and be amazed!!!! Doctors are a fooking joke, when it comes to health!

[2tuff]

Soy kills the Thyroid and believe me you do not want Thyroid problems! Stick to normal milk if you want milk or something like Rice or Almond milk. Soy is a most terrible film and always reminds me of SOYlent Green also haha. Keep well away from Vegetable Oils also as these KILL the thyroid. Both promote Cancer and this is another reason for the major obesity and cancer levels. Lethal junk, stick to Saturated Fats like Virgin Coconut Oil which is a wonder oil I used three tablespoons daily and it's been a life saver.

[megafish33]

...stick to Saturated Fats like Virgin Coconut Oil which is a wonder oil I used three tablespoons daily and it's been a life saver.

If you're looking to rebuild even more, you can supplement with a high-vitamin cod liver oil and yellow butter oil, with your morning coconut oil ritual. They seem to all work with synergism. This will also allow you to better incorporate your proteins, which you'll need more of if you'd like to increase your activity levels. The above combo will supply vitamins A and D of course, but also all kinds of Q's, E's, x-factors, and even K's to get you going, and the saturated fatty acids will help you assimilate the n-3 oils properly.

Glad to hear the tropical oils work well for you!

[Ratiocinator]

Instead of oil from fish, flax (linn) seed or flax seed oil should be taken. This will provide a rich amount of omega-3 without having to cause great suffering to fish, who are killed in the most horrific way.

All of the other nutrients you mentioned are available from cruelty-free sources too (remember, cruelty-free food means good karma food, and also very healthy food). Vitamin D we get from the sun.

It is always best to get vitamin A from precursors, such as beta carotene for example. The human body, unlike those of omnivores and carnivores, is unable to detoxify vitamin A. But we are able to consume massive amounts of beta carotene, and other precursors of vitamin A, without fear of poisoning.

[nickatnoon61]

Instead of oil from fish, flax (linn) seed or flax seed oil should be taken. This will provide a rich amount of omega-3 without having to cause great suffering to fish, who are killed in the most horrific way.

All of the other nutrients you mentioned are available from cruelty-free sources too (remember, cruelty-free food means good karma food, and also very healthy food). Vitamin D we get from the sun.

It is always best to get vitamin A from precursors, such as beta carotene for example. The human body, unlike those of omnivores and carnivores, is unable to detoxify vitamin A. But we are able to consume massive amounts of beta carotene, and other precursors of vitamin A, without fear of poisoning.
Yes RC, only those at a HIGHER VIBRATION even consider "cruelty free". You are one of them! Hemp oil is probably one of the best sources of omega, with no heavy metals in it like fish oils.

[nickatnoon61]

Soy kills the Thyroid and believe me you do not want Thyroid problems! Stick to normal milk . Ive got a NEWS FLASH for you 2tuff!!!" NORMAL MILK "is probably one of the worst things anyone can put in their bodies!!!!

[masonfree party]

yes but isn't milk just liquified grass in away...cant see ote wrong with drinking milk from cows raised organically without growth hormones etc...my [neighbours] cats like it and they would turn their noses up at crap

[megafish33]

yes but isn't milk just liquified grass in away...cant see ote wrong with drinking milk from cows raised organically without growth hormones etc...my [neighbours] cats like it and they would turn their noses up at crap

The good ones are from grass-fed animals, yes. Not always the case though... plus in some winter months, the grass looses some of it's nutrients.

Ratiocinator, I disagree with your philosophy on food and it's karma. Yes, flax seed oil is something that can be a benefit to many(if not all) people. I would also disagree with your ideas on vitamins A and D, but that's another thread. Yes, you should eat carotenes and get some sunshine, but that's not the end of the story. I personally believe that you could eat only raw plants and live a good life, provide your genetics are great and you were feed well as a baby and developed. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But have you ever seen a long generation of healthy peoples that eat ONLY that? Without eating animal fat save mothers milk? If you have that info, please pass it my way, I'd really like to hear of such a thing. I'd disagree with nick on hemp too, but it would be a quantity/absorption/side-effect issue, not that it's really "bad."

Guys, try chia seeds and it's oils. :)

[nickatnoon61]

Dairy Queen Fabio "Yeah a baby" - YouTube This is for all you big babies who just have to have their milk!!! LOL:D

[nickatnoon61]

The good ones are from grass-fed animals, yes. Not always the case though... plus in some winter months, the grass looses some of it's nutrients.

Ratiocinator, I disagree with your philosophy on food and it's karma. Yes, flax seed oil is something that can be a benefit to many(if not all) people. I would also disagree with your ideas on vitamins A and D, but that's another thread. Yes, you should eat carotenes and get some sunshine, but that's not the end of the story. I personally believe that you could eat only raw plants and live a good life, provide your genetics are great and you were feed well as a baby and developed. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But have you ever seen a long generation of healthy peoples that eat ONLY that? Without eating animal fat save mothers milk? If you have that info, please pass it my way, I'd really like to hear of such a thing. I'd disagree with nick on hemp too, but it would be a quantity/absorption/side-effect issue, not that it's really "bad."

Guys, try chia seeds and it's oils. :) Thanx Sardine Boy, I would be just LOST without your keen advice and insights on health matters!!! NOOOOOOTTTTTTTTT!!!!! :eek: Did mummy make yer chicken soup today ?!? :D

[nickatnoon61]

yes but isn't milk just liquified grass in away..


masonfree, I think you forgot to take your medication!!!! :D

[megafish33]

Thanx Sardine Boy, I would be just LOST without your keen advice and insights on health matters!!! NOOOOOOTTTTTTTTT!!!!! :eek: Did mummy make yer chicken soup today ?!? :D

Translation:

I'm a COOOOOOOOOCK!!!!


No, but I did take in lots of B12... look into it lol, could help calm your nerves. ;)

[nickatnoon61]

Translation:

I'm a COOOOOOOOOCK!!!!


No, but I did take in lots of B12... look into it lol, could help calm your nerves. ;) :D :D :D

[megafish33]

:D :D :D

Whatever lol :p

[Ratiocinator]

The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But have you ever seen a long generation of healthy peoples that eat ONLY that? Without eating animal fat save mothers milk? If you have that info, please pass it my way, I'd really like to hear of such a thing.

Donald Watson:

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/Donald-Watson-Vegan/Donald-Watson.html

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/Donald-Watson-Vegan/Donald-Watson-vegan-founder.jpg

60-years a vegan, and vegetarian prior. He is the founder of the Vegan Society and originator of the word Vegan. He died aged 95.

I have heard of many others, too; people who lived the majority of their lives on a vegan diet and died in their 90s. The world's oldest marathon runner is in his 80s or 90s and is vegan.

Just do some hunting around on Google for more info on these people.

[megafish33]

Donald Watson:

60-years a vegan, and vegetarian prior. He is the founder of the Vegan Society and originator of the word Vegan. He died aged 95.



That's awesome to hear! I was sort of asking for a family line though... like a few generations of being mostly raw vegan. I have respect for David Wolfe... he's so full of energy, and I'd have to believe him when he said he doesn't drink Pepsi and eat animal products. But I'd also like to see what his grandchildren would look like, considering his mate and children all ate like him.

Thanks for the link.

[nickatnoon61]

Donald Watson:

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/Donald-Watson-Vegan/Donald-Watson.html

http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/people/Donald-Watson-Vegan/Donald-Watson-vegan-founder.jpg

60-years a vegan, and vegetarian prior. He is the founder of the Vegan Society and originator of the word Vegan. He died aged 95.

I have heard of many others, too; people who lived the majority of their lives on a vegan diet and died in their 90s. The world's oldest marathon runner is in his 80s or 90s and is vegan.

Just do some hunting around on Google for more info on these people. Thannx RC, if you look closely, you can see nessie in the loch!!!!! :p

[2tuff]

Some in here hate cooked foods also. But explain how this old man is like he is:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FtkWlbGl8Zc

He's also featured doing a kata with a sword in a later part!

[2tuff]

Ive got a NEWS FLASH for you 2tuff!!!" NORMAL MILK "is probably one of the worst things anyone can put in their bodies!!!!

First of all I drink no milks of any kind, I only intake some lard and Virgin Coconut Oil along with some Eggs now and then.

But like I said, you take your SOY POISON milk and I'll take proper raw cows milk and lets see who survives the longest and is the fitest. Enjoy your obesity and life threatening Thyroid troubles.

[megafish33]

But like I said, you take your SOY POISON milk and I'll take proper raw cows milk and lets see who survives the longest and is the fitest.

Ever done a fresh milk cleanse? I did it one weekend and felt fantastic. Colostrum is also great, if raw grass-fed and consumed quickly.

[nickatnoon61]

2tuff said:But like I said, you take your SOY POISON milk and I'll take proper raw cows milk and lets see who survives the longest and is the fitest.
nick said: I drink neither!!! Real men don't drink milk! Just babies!!! Fabio says: "Yeah a baby!!!!" :eek: Dairy Queen Fabio "Yeah a baby" - YouTube

[megafish33]

nick said: I drink neither!!! Real men don't drink milk! Just babies!!!

Actually, "real men" have been drinking milk for thousands of years.

For real, you don't like nut milks? Almond milk fucking owns.

[nickatnoon61]

Actually, "real men" have been drinking milk for thousands of years.

For real, you don't like nut milks? Almond milk fucking owns.
I drink fresh nut milks in smoothies with bananas, green powder,coconut oil,hemp hearts, kitchen sink,and a squirt of Cell Food. That is why I am sooooooo good lookin". Like Fabio, except without the muscles, hair, and german accent!!!! :eek:

[mazzie]

I have become lactose intolerant from drinking too much full cream milk, yes can you believe it lol. I knew that meat was tainted from the steroids that are pumped into cattle so it was inevitable that the milk would be infested with allsorts of impurities. With all of the genetically modifying of plants and animals nothing that we eat today is "organic", if its not the unatural pesticides or herbicides, its the fertilisers, if its not that its the bacteria in the soil, you cant escape it. Never mind magazines and pictures of models making young girls anorexic maybe its their Biology lectures at school/college.

[mariag]

I drink fresh nut milks in smoothies with bananas, green powder,coconut oil,hemp hearts, kitchen sink,and a squirt of Cell Food. That is why I am sooooooo good lookin". Like Fabio, except without the muscles, hair, and german accent!!!! :eek:
:D:D YEA nicky boy , could do with that smoothie right now. I have got a severe headache and I know those energy smoothies would do it .:D:D

[nickatnoon61]

:D:D YEA nicky boy , could do with that smoothie right now. I have got a severe headache and I know those energy smoothies would do it .:D:D
THANX MARIAG, I get them on occasion,also. JUST LAST WEEK,I WOKE UP WITH A HEADACHE...........SO I THREW HER OUT!!!!! :eek: Seriously, I will get headaches from consuming sweets!There is ASSpartame in over 5000 foods! MSG is also a culprit! Then, of course there is the stale ice bartenders put in our drinks!!! ;) The bananas in the smoothie are supposed to be good for headaches,(hangovers) and I also have some special mint oil from Japan! I only go to pharmaceuticals/painkillers as a LAST resort! I hope you are feeling better soon! :)

[chromeranger]

I have become lactose intolerant from drinking too much full cream milk, yes can you believe it lol.

The dairy products on the shelves of supermarkets today are all 'dead' products. Homogenised and pasteurised, all that is left in what was once a nutritional gift from cows is 'death juice'. The industrialised processing of dairy products ensures that everything is within standards set by bigotted scientific standards that has no understanding of synergetic biology whatsover! The product that the masses buy are devoid of nutrients and full of harmful enzymes while all the good stuff gets wiped away to prolong shelf life. Raw milk as well as churned butter has its health benefits, but I don't think its for everyone. Eastern people for example don't have the genes to produce lactase in the gut after the age of four. Unpasteurised goats milk is a far better option as it doesn't cause mucus formation unlike cows milk. Also full cream is healthier because the fats are beneficial, unlike what the scientists say about the whole 'low cholesterol' hoax. Skimmed milk is not milk. Would an infant grow strong drinking skimmed milk from the mother? I don't think so. Apparently 2/3 of the worlds population is in fact lactose intolerant, and the figure is probably going to keep rising.

[mariag]

THANX MARIAG, I get them on occasion,also. JUST LAST WEEK,I WOKE UP WITH A HEADACHE...........SO I THREW HER OUT!!!!! :eek: Seriously, I will get headaches from consuming sweets!There is ASSpartame in over 5000 foods! MSG is also a culprit! Then, of course there is the stale ice bartenders put in our drinks!!! ;) The bananas in the smoothie are supposed to be good for headaches,(hangovers) and I also have some special mint oil from Japan! I only go to pharmaceuticals/painkillers as a LAST resort! I hope you are feeling better soon! :)
You are going to have to ( if you don´t mind) write this down in a mail for me please. yes i do hope my headache will dis apear soon :rolleyes:

[nickatnoon61]

The dairy products on the shelves of supermarkets today are all 'dead' products. Homogenised and pasteurised, all that is left in what was once a nutritional gift from cows is 'death juice'. The industrialised processing of dairy products ensures that everything is within standards set by bigotted scientific standards that has no understanding of synergetic biology whatsover! The product that the masses buy are devoid of nutrients and full of harmful enzymes while all the good stuff gets wiped away to prolong shelf life. Raw milk as well as churned butter has its health benefits, but I don't think its for everyone. Eastern people for example don't have the genes to produce lactase in the gut after the age of four. Unpasteurised goats milk is a far better option as it doesn't cause mucus formation unlike cows milk. Also full cream is healthier because the fats are beneficial, unlike what the scientists say about the whole 'low cholesterol' hoax. Skimmed milk is not milk. Would an infant grow strong drinking skimmed milk from the mother? I don't think so. Apparently 2/3 of the worlds population is in fact lactose intolerant, and the figure is probably going to keep rising. Thanx Chrome.....FINALLY, A VOICE OF REASON AND SANITY!!!! :)

[swoarg]

when i drink milk even in a cup of tea or use margerine i feel a pain in my heals has anyone heard of this sympton before

[megafish33]

The dairy products on the shelves of supermarkets today are all 'dead' products... Raw milk as well as churned butter has its health benefits, but I don't think its for everyone... Unpasteurised goats milk is a far better option as it doesn't cause mucus formation unlike cows milk. Also full cream is healthier because the fats are beneficial, unlike what the scientists say about the whole 'low cholesterol' hoax. Skimmed milk is not milk. ...

Agree with all of it, half way with you on the goats milk. Raw whole cows milk never gave me mucus formation, but I agree goats milk is better.


nick, stop drinking and you won't have headaches! Make a salad with a dozen strawberries or so... they have natural salicylates and will ease your pain. Another reason you could be aching after drinking is because your B-complex stores are destroyed when drinking... Make a drink containing broccoli, spinach, and lettuces; also take a sublingual B12.