Freeman ON the land

[asky]

Is there any reference to the term "Freeman ON the Land" that originates further back than the last 20 years?

The term Freeman OF the land goes way back in history but ON the land seems to be a new invention.

asky

[asky]

Anybody??

asky

[rosix]

in legal terms "of" can mean pretty much the opposite - "Bank of England" = Bank without England
just something to keep in mind

[asky]

Where did you find that information?

asky

[number_6]

in legal terms "of" can mean pretty much the opposite - "Bank of England" = Bank without England
just something to keep in mind

So, Fred of the Bloggs family, might in fact mean Fred without the Blogs family?

[rosix]

So, Fred of the Bloggs family, might in fact mean Fred without the Blogs family?

you're not even amusing or constructive in your bullshit at the moment - what's up with that? you read that I wrote "in legal terms" and you know very well that Joe of the Bloggs family is not a legal title

[number_6]

you're not even amusing or constructive in your bullshit at the moment - what's up with that? you read that I wrote "in legal terms" and you know very well that Joe of the Bloggs family is not a legal title

My bullshit was not intended to be amusing, it was a subtle hint that you were not answering the OP's question. Mind you, it would seem that nobody here can.
You posted bollocks, so I responded with bollocks.

[yozhik]

Well in response to the OP ... but unfortunately with nothing more than total unsupported heresay ...

I was chatting with aman who had been on a bus trip to mainland Europe from the UK.
It was a last minute deal ... basically a busload of pensioners which had a couple of empty seats.

Anyway ... one of them lost their passport and was concerned about the ramifications at the border control.
The tour guide said not to worry; "just tell them you're a Freeman On The Land and you're claiming your right to travel unhindered".

Now ... here is the point I'm taking an eternity to get to ...

The bus load of pensioners all laughed and started teasing this woman ...
"Ooooohhhhhh ... look at her ... a Freeman On The Land ..."

They were teasing her in a fun and friendly manner with zero malice or ill will.
Everyone, including the newly proclaimed Freeman On The Land, were having a great giggle.

They were ALL aware of and familiar with the phrase.

Now ... as I originally stated ... this is unsupported heresay.
However, I don't know of any reason for this person to misinform me or make the story up.
Again, the point being, I would suggest that if a busload of pensioners were all familiar with the term 'Freeman On The Land', it has been around for more than 20 years.


EDIT
... and yes - she did make that statement at border control ... and yes - she was successful in crossing the border sans passport.

[asky]

So the tour guide read the term freeman on the land on a website and told a pensioner that SHE was a freeMAN and the other pensioners were amused that she was refered to as a man is prove in your eyes that they were all aware of the term freeman on the land.

And your a senior member here???

asky

[yozhik]

So the tour guide read the term freeman on the land on a website and told a pensioner that SHE was a freeMAN and the other pensioners were amused that she was refered to as a man is prove in your eyes that they were all aware of the term freeman on the land.

And your a senior member here???

asky

No.

That is not how it went down.
The tour guide advised her of how to overcome the no passport situation.
The border guard understood her statement.
She travelled unhindered.

My, my ... you do have a fertile [and incredibly nefarious] way about you, don't you?


And you're an incredibly new poster here???
[your point being?]

[merlincove]

So the tour guide read the term freeman on the land on a website and told a pensioner that SHE was a freeMAN and the other pensioners were amused that she was refered to as a man is prove in your eyes that they were all aware of the term freeman on the land.

And your a senior member here???

asky

i think that it was quite obvious that yozhik's post referred to the passengers having an inherent knowledge of the phrase freeman on the land rather than the tour op just mentioning it in passing.

:D

And that is an interesting tale, Yoz.

But beyond the internets and the freeman talks i have been to i have heard very little general public awareness in respect to freeman on the land.

However, it is a long standing tradition in the uk that the term 'common land' has been widely used for decades and perhaps even longer. Gypsies by right of being freeman on the land can lawfully stay on Common Land provided that they bring some form of aid to the community, ie, mending guttering, tending to gardens etc.

That concept then, of common land, and the concepts of travellers being free form state control lends some weight to the conception that freeman on the land has been a widely acknowledged understanding.

It is wholly possible that the term freeman on the land has been widely used in the past, perhaps up to and including the 60’s, but has fallen out of favour in recent years, its revival catching the imagination of many recently?

[number_6]

And that is an interesting tale, Yoz.


Are you sure? An unconfirmed tale told by an unamed man to another who then repeats it on the internet? This is how an urban myth starts, soon it will be fact.

[merlincove]

Are you sure? An unconfirmed tale told by an unamed man to another who then repeats it on the internet? This is how an urban myth starts, soon it will be fact.

lol #6

it was interesting though, like yoz says he can not provide it factually. but nevertheless it is still interesting :D

[yozhik]

Are you sure? An unconfirmed tale told by an unamed man to another who then repeats it on the internet? This is how an urban myth starts, soon it will be fact.

Which is EXACTLY why I heavily labelled it as 'hearsay' and 'unsupported'.

Look ... the purpose of posting was not to lay foundations for an urban myth.
The sole purpose was to respond to the OP and the subsequent plea for any information [post #2].

I posted as a simple gesture of; "you are not being ignored".

'Unsupported hearsay', I respectfully suggest, is a responsible and accurate qualification of the information and screams for anyone reading it to do their own due diligence.

Wouldn't you agree?

[number_6]

At no point, yozhik did I imagine that you posted the tale with the intent to start an urban myth. I have no doubt that somebody told you the story. But I doubt that the event ever took place.
My surprise was at merlincove's response.
But, nobody has actually attempted to answer the original question. Is "ON" a recent change from "OF" or is there evidence of it going way back?
Is it just a typing mistake somebody made, and a few people liked the look of it?

[asky]

So after over 200 viewings and only one source (which maybe a made up story) It appears there are few if any references to freeman on the land that have origins in history.

As such I feel that the term freeman is a title given not claimed and the title of freeman that was used in the time of the good old Magna Charta refered to Barons and the like.
(read the tallage act)

the term freeman on the land is a myth that has been perpetrated by modern day "serfs" with delusions of grandure.

I hope there is evidence to prove me wrong or my journey into the world of the freeman theory is going to be very short indeed.

asky

[yozhik]

So you will base your entire opinion of the 'world of the freeman theory', wholly on the origins of it's label/name?

Maybe, just maybe, the term was coined for a Freeman on the land in contradistinction to a Freeman on the sea, given that [for some] the whole maritime issue is at its core.

To be honest; I don't give a shit what its called.
For all I care, it could be the Man On The Moon 'theory' ... it would not deter me from my journey of exploration.
There will be some on this forum - maybe even you asky - who will assert that that is exactly where it belongs ... on the moon ... along with other ridiculous conspiracy theories with no factual evidence of them being anything more than some hairbrained idea of some crack smoking dillusional moron with little, if any, grasp on reality.

Would that be correct?

But asky - if you have come here with a predisposition to judge a book by its cover, then I can assure you you will discover all that you truly seek.

[asky]

Yozhik wrote
Maybe, just maybe, the term was coined for a Freeman on the land in contradistinction to a Freeman on the sea,

Do you have any historical references to freeman on the sea?

Yozhik wrote
For all I care, it could be the Man On The Moon 'theory' ... it would not deter me from my journey of exploration.

How long have you been exploring this freeman theory and what have you found up to now.
I cant find anything to suggest its true and all you have is a third hand story about some pensioners laughing at a joke about gender.

asky

[Ian2day]

There is a difference between common land and Urban common land. Which is the one you can pitch on, if you offer a service or benefit to the community. Most of it has been sold off or hidden away.

However with my knowledge of how wikipedia likes to delete even the history of some information. I am beginning to wonder if it is such a good idea to provide loads of links to relevant .gov sites as it may magically vanish also.

[asky]

WELL DONE Ian

Totally taken the thread in a diffrent direction.
Is this what happens here when you hit a brick wall:rolleyes:

asky

[Ian2day]

Well done asky for not using search :rolleyes:

You have started another thread, that has to be waded through. If anyone ever wants to find the info, that has previously been posted. :p;)

[yozhik]

Yozhik wrote
Maybe, just maybe, the term was coined for a Freeman on the land in contradistinction to a Freeman on the sea,

Do you have any historical references to freeman on the sea?
IF you had done any research into this topic at all, rather than defacating in the corner of the room the moment you entered, you would comprehend the significance and relevance of the land versus sea reference.

At no time did I state that Freeman on the sea ever existed.
If you open your eyes [and mind] you will see that I hypothesised that 'freeman on the land' may have been coined to make a distinction from anything nautical or maritime.


I cant find anything to suggest its true and all you have is a third hand story about some pensioners laughing at a joke about gender.

asky

My only regret in all of this is that I replied to your plea for all and any information in your 2nd post here.

I could have [and should have] simply ignored the thread, as others obviously have.
Foolishly I wanted to 'welcome' a new member to the forum and by posting, show some element of courtesy and assurance that he/she was not being ignored.


The pensioners did not laugh about a gender joke.
That was your nefarious spin on the story.
I have already corrected you on this intentional obfuscation and distortion; you continue to perpetuate disinformation.
For what purpose, I have to ask.

If you're going to be an ungracious prat; at least be an accurate one.

[asky]

Well yozhik I work on the balance of probabilities with regards your story.

Is it more likely that they were laughing about a woman being labelled a man or that the entire coach of pensioners were clued up on the freeman on the land theory?

I think you and everyone else reading this thread knows the answer to that.
If you want to keep your blind faith in a myth that has no basis in historical history then thats your choice.

Have you noticed how everyone else has shyed away from this thread, you know why dont you?

Its because they dont want to rock the "freeman boat"
Sorry about the nautical reference but I do mean ON the land

And I do understand that you feel you would have been better of ignoring the thread as everone else has as you dont really have an argument to back up the freeman on the land myth after all.

asky

[merlincove]

And I do understand.

asky

most accurate and sensible post on this thread i recon. :rolleyes:

:D

asky: if you wish to enter into discussion then please attempt to validate a POV rather than dissect what was stated was a well meant but unsupported narrative.

The difference, i am sure you have discovered for yourself, between maritime law and law of the land is a huge one.

I am sure that the term, freeman on the land is well versed in history, and am equally sure that such has melted away (no doubt by design) only to find a resurgence today, generally speaking.

You may as well ask how long the term gypsy has been used, and when it overtook the term Romany in common language. Gypsies are the original freemen on the land, btw. FMOTL is simply a name set to give a clear distinction of being, a name depicting a human beings clarity of conceptional understanding. To me, it doesn’t matter where the name came from or how old that name is, it makes a very clear definition betwixt those who consent to be governed and those who do not. IMO that is the end of it.

:cool:

[asky]

I can start another thread about the understand/stand under theory if you like but I think you will find that is also another freeman myth.
So merlincove show me a reference to freeman ON the land in one historical reference book?

You did quite well trying to skirt around the subject but unfortunatly its not going to be that easy.

asky

[yozhik]

Well yozhik I work on the balance of probabilities with regards your story.

Is it more likely that they were laughing about a woman being labelled a man or that the entire coach of pensioners were clued up on the freeman on the land theory?

I think you and everyone else reading this thread knows the answer to that.
If you want to keep your blind faith in a myth that has no basis in historical history then thats your choice.

Have you noticed how everyone else has shyed away from this thread, you know why dont you?

Its because they dont want to rock the "freeman boat"
Sorry about the nautical reference but I do mean ON the land

And I do understand that you feel you would have been better of ignoring the thread as everone else has as you dont really have an argument to back up the freeman on the land myth after all.

asky

asky ... you originally asked about the origin of the term 'freeman on the land'.
You have asked nothing nor contributed anything to, the actual content of the freeman on the land subject.

Is there any reference to the term "Freeman ON the Land" that originates further back than the last 20 years?

The term Freeman OF the land goes way back in history but ON the land seems to be a new invention.

asky


You have now [somehow] spun the lack of etymological information into an argument that the entire freeman on the land is a myth.
you dont really have an argument to back up the freeman on the land myth after all.

asky


Have you forgotten your own topic?

If you want to argue probabilities [if you are so enamored with probability, its most probable that you are a lawyer, solicitor, magistrate or judge ... afterall, legal argument is a science of probability ... correct?]; I suggest it is highly probable that you are a troll, who has no genuine interest in researching the subject of the freeman on the land concept at all, but would rather start a nonsense thread on the origins of the phrase, then spin it into the lack of replies being evidence the whole concept is nonsense.

That's the most probable explanation for your posts thus far.

I'm not sure from whence you came, but I am almost certain you have found your way from a forum which derives much pleasure in holding dear to the status quo.

Did you get bored there?
Decided to come to the 'Reptiles Forum' for a bit if fun?

I'm done feeding the troll.
Enjoy the rest of your time here ... but we all know, you'll soon get bored here too ... but maybe hang around long enough to collect a few imaginary trophies to award yourself some bragging rights to take back and share with your buddies on your regular forum.

Other than the origins of the "Freeman On The Land" term; do you have anything to contribute?
Anything at all?

Ironic ... having to remind the OP to keep to topic ...
:rolleyes:

[merlincove]

asky ...

I suggest it is highly probable that you are a troll, who has no genuine interest in researching the subject of the freeman on the land concept at all, but would rather start a nonsense thread on the origins of the phrase, then spin it into the lack of replies being evidence the whole concept is nonsense.

That's the most probable explanation for your posts thus far.

Ironic ... having to remind the OP to keep to topic ...
:rolleyes:

:D i'd tend to agree with you here yozhik

[merlincove]

You did quite well trying to skirt around the subject but unfortunatly its not going to be that easy.

asky

i have not skirted nor attempted to skirt anything and nor will i get drawn into a power argument over this subject.

Again you see what you want to see and make observations while blindly sidestepping the premise and generic construction of the given discussion.

To me, it doesn’t matter where the name came from or how old that name is, it makes a very clear definition betwixt those who consent to be governed and those who do not. IMO that is the end of it.

I was in no way skirting. I give an opinion in response to the OP, how is that in any way skirting? lol


So merlincove show me a reference to freeman ON the land in one historical reference book?

asky

i have never said that one exists. And even if one does, why should you be denied the pleasure of researching it for yourself, go on, you might actually learn something.

I can start another thread about the understand/stand under theory if you like but I think you will find that is also another freeman myth.

asky

There are members here, many members, who will attend to the fact that the freeman concept is not a myth.

I can definitely attend to that fact. And asky, believe me there are many others - who i have no need to name, because it is clear who they are to anyone brave enough to do their research and step out of societies self perceived comfort blanket.

Please do your homework before you begin dissing our way of life and challenging it with such a blinkered view.

Thanks.

I Am Me, I Am Free, I Am a Freeman On The Land

[asky]

yozhick wrote
Other than the origins of the "Freeman On The Land" term; do you have anything to contribute?
Anything at all?

Yes of course now that the fact has now been established that the term freeman on the land is a myth we can start with "understand" meaning "stand under" becasue there is zero evidence to suggest that it does.
If you would care to show me a legal/lawful reference to this being a fact please post it.
We can also do "The DVLA owns your car" as well if you like (they dont by the way)

"Do your own research" is the battle cry of the informationally challenged.

I am not from any legal law background just an individual who has his head screwed on right and after researching this subject for around 6 months keep arriving at the same point (nowhere)

Close to 360 people have now seen that there is nothing to back up the myth

asky

[merlincove]

ok askys (a perfect name btw) this is against my better judgement, but i'm willing to give this one last shot.

You seriously need to get hold of a copy of Blacks Law dictionary (or even, Bouvier Law Dictionary which is the anotated for the uk if i am not mistaken) and look up the words:

Person.

Human Being.

Register.

Certificate.

And perhaps most imprtant of all, Understand.

Yes of course now that the fact has now been established that the term freeman on the land is a myth

That has only been established in your mind because you have chosen to ignore and argue the posts made here.

[asky]

I also have some old books that have no relevance to real life (Bible for one)
I have just looked in Blacks 2nd and Understand and human being arnt even in it:rolleyes:
Register is defined as a book containing a record of facts
Certificate is defined as an act that has or has not been done
PERSON. A man considered according to
the rank be holds io society, with all the
rlgbts to which the place be bolds entities
hIm. Rnd the duties which it imposes. 1
BoU\·. Inst. no. 137.
A human beIng considered as capable ot
havlng rIghts and or being charged with duties;
while a "thing" is the object over which
rights may be exercised.

And these things are meant to prove what?

asky

[asky]

437 Viewings and no evidence.

I hope you are all taking note.

People will see this for what it really is unless you back it up with evidence ;)

asky (its short for "ask why" by the way)

[yozhik]

asky ...

Do you have rights, are you entitled to rights or are you prescribed rights?



Just as a cute aside :rolleyes: ...
You seem to have a liking for the legal system and the law.
How about chewing over this one;

You state; "the freeman on the land concept is a myth".
Correct?

Then you challenge/demand those who disagree to prove the argument you have submitted, wrong.
So you [cleverly] expect the negative to be proven; an incredibly difficult task, as I am sure you are aware, given your liking for probability.

Might be timely to remind you of this;

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.
The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not he who denies.
Dig. 22, 3, 2; 4 Bouv Inst. n. 4411.

[asky]

Yes

asky

[yozhik]

Which?

a) have
b) entitled to
c) prescribed

a), b) or c)?

[asky]

A b and c

asky

YOZHICK WROTE
Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.
The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not he who denies.
Dig. 22, 3, 2; 4 Bouv Inst. n. 4411.

I cant believe you posted that.
Your the one who believe this concept exists so the burden of proof is with you to show me some proof it exists
Jeez this is easy

[yozhik]

YOZHICK WROTE
Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.
The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not he who denies.
Dig. 22, 3, 2; 4 Bouv Inst. n. 4411.

I cant believe you posted that.
Your the one who believe this concept exists so the burden of proof is with you to show me some proof it exists
Jeez this is easy

Tell me you're taking the piss ... please ...

You stated [affirmed];
The freeman on the land concept is a myth.

asky ... now pay close attention - I would hate to lose you ... that [your statement] is a positive statement.
It is an affirmation.
It might be a negative [critical] opinion on the subject matter, however the statement is a positive [affirmation] one.

To put it in terms you feel more comfortable with;
You have charged the FOTL concept with being fraudulent.
You are prosecuting the concept and those that follow it.

Well, Mr Prosecutor; the burden of proof is yours.


If I had stated; "the freeman on the land concept is bona fide" ... the burden of proof would be mine.


Jeez this is easy
Couldn't agree more ...

[yozhik]

A b and c

asky



Oh I see ... its play time, is it?
Droll ... very droll.

Wow...droll ... rhymes with troll ... hmmm ... cute coincidence.
Can't for the life of me think why that just popped into my head ...

[asky]

OK lets go then.

Your Honour the accused does not have one shred of evidence to prove that the term Freeman on the land has any basis in reality.
I place before the court every single factual book ever written on the subject of law and history as evidence to show that this concept is indeed a myth.

Over to the defence

asky

[mystic nomad]

Well yozhik I work on the balance of probabilities with regards your story.

Is it more likely that they were laughing about a woman being labelled a man or that the entire coach of pensioners were clued up on the freeman on the land theory?

I think you and everyone else reading this thread knows the answer to that.
If you want to keep your blind faith in a myth that has no basis in historical history then thats your choice.

Have you noticed how everyone else has shyed away from this thread, you know why dont you?

Its because they dont want to rock the "freeman boat"
Sorry about the nautical reference but I do mean ON the land

And I do understand that you feel you would have been better of ignoring the thread as everone else has as you dont really have an argument to back up the freeman on the land myth after all.

asky


Errrm:confused: your attitude?:D


I don't think that "on the land" or "of the land" is really that important. If others use that terminology that is because it suits their purpose and view at the time. If it doesn't suit you don't use it.

It could quite easily be a corruption of a title such as Joe Bloggs freeman upon/of these lands and boroughs of blah, blah, blah.

The important thing here is the term "freeman".

From Blacks-1st edition

FREEMAN. This word has had various meanings at different stages of history. In Roman law it denoted one who was either born free or emancipated, and was the opposite of "slave." In feudal law it designated an allodial proprietor, as distinguished from a vassal or feudal tenant. In old English law the term described a free-holder or tenent by free services; one who was not a vllein. In modern phraseology, it is the appellation of a member of a city or borough having the rights of suffrage, or a member of a municipal corporation invested with full civic rights.
A person in the possession or enjoyment of all the civil and political rights accorded to the people under a free government.

Gender plays no part with the term "freeman" the same as it has no part in the term "slave". Man simply refers to the fact we are of the family of man. Not human as in the hue of man, which can be defined as something entirely different.

Understood. "The phrase it is understood" when employed as a word of contract in a written agreement has the same force as "It is agreed". Higginson v Weld, 14 Gray (Mass) 165.

Therefore you are standing under the terms of the contract that you have agreed.


Just for the record.
Sorry but I have to contest the statement that Gypsies are the original freemen, we are all original freemen. Beleive me when I say Gypsies and travellers are fighting as hard to claw back their rights as everyone else. They have all been assimilated just as everyone else has.
Gypsies= those that came from Egypt, Roma=those that came from Rome.
There is no such thing as a "cushti achin tan" anymore, most Gypsy families will only be allowed to stay on common land these days if they are trying for a house or trying to get the children into state education or healthcare. Having horses with you affords some protection to constantly being moved on but not a lot. I don't know of anyone that likes living on a site, especially being forced to live on one.

Pretty much all of the common land around here is gated and padlocked. Some land is available to travelling amusement fairs, circuses and such under charter. Even here it would appear that legal teams are working hard at finding ways to undermine the charters.

When foot and mouth conveniently shut down the countryside, some diligent residents of Appleby realised that to keep the charter for the horse fair alive they had to walk a horse from one end of the high street to the other, in this case it was a donkey but nonetheless the charter remains valid.

asky if you don't want to remain bound by the chains of slavery and illusion then don't fall at the smallest obstacle provided by your current perception, don't sweat the small stuff, you are a sovereign spirit created as an equal, nuff said.

[yozhik]

LOL ... that's it?
That's all you have?
:D

Hey asky ... enjoy your time here ... and a belated 'welcome to the forum'.

[asky]

Its far more than you have.
I have every factual book ever written and you have a conspiracy theory.

Newbies here will see it for what it is

I look forward to future banter

asky

[yozhik]

Hey - believe me - when you give a substantiated opinion; I'll be more than happy and willing to discuss it with you.

As I have stated numerous times ... I enjoy differing opinions and ideas; it gives me an opportunity to compare, review, amend and [sometimes] abandon my own.

So until then ...

[scottmurray]

It was a privilege(private law)bestowed upon a person after a period of service to a "burgess" and basically relived you from your duties into the municipal corperation/council/tax/social contract.
When the municipal corperations changed their names to councils to hide their corperate status the freeman name was changed to the old keys to the city principle.
I understand that it origionated from Bristol and the mighty merchant venturerers who, to this day are super powerfull claiming royalties everytime a ship sets sail as they mapped all the shipping routes back in the days of slaving and they are the only"lodge"with an honourary women member....thatcher.
I do reserve the right to be wrong on this one as im quoting from memeory
from shit i was told by an extremely well qualified person who knows of these issues first hand(hes a member)....20 years ago

[number_6]

It was a privilege(private law)bestowed upon a person after a period of service to a "burgess" and basically relived you from your duties into the municipal corperation/council/tax/social contract.
When the municipal corperations changed their names to councils to hide their corperate status the freeman name was changed to the old keys to the city principle.
I understand that it origionated from Bristol and the mighty merchant venturerers who, to this day are super powerfull claiming royalties everytime a ship sets sail as they mapped all the shipping routes back in the days of slaving and they are the only"lodge"with an honourary women member....thatcher.
I do reserve the right to be wrong on this one as im quoting from memeory
from shit i was told by an extremely well qualified person who knows of these issues first hand(hes a member)....20 years ago

So, this "privilege" was given, not claimed?
Was it "ON" or "OF" the Land?
However, I am a trifle concerned that this information you have is described as "shit I was told"

[asky]

scottmurry wrote
It was a privilege(private law)bestowed upon a person after a period of service to a "burgess" and basically relived you from your duties into the municipal corperation/council/tax/social contract.

now were getting somewhere;)

asky

[scottmurray]

[QUOTE=number_6;1058426823]So, this "privilege" was given, not claimed?
Was it "ON" or "OF" the Land?
However, I am a trifle concerned that this information you have is described as "shit I was told"[/QUOTE

Yes well sorry for that mate but its the truth present were the chief constable of a police force and a judge i was "well connected" back in them days.My boss back then was training me up to be his right hand i was 19 and he was teaching me the "secret history"of Bristol and indeed the world.
I have nothing to prove to anyone and i think the less people that know what we know the better.i have used my knowlege of the private law respectfully and responsibily......would you if you truely knew for sure.
I knew ,as many do this shit years ago, the deception is only for 80 percent of the population and only for the worthy.

I got kids so i think we should have insurance and mot testing for cars i dont want to live in banglafucking desh or mexico............do you.

But know this when you dont consent ..its not what you say its how you say it , honour must go before privilege(private law) in a simular way innocent before guilty its about showing and demonstraiting responsibility.
oh and whatever was writen to substantiate the freeman principles has been either changed or manipulated as a result of people showing they know and wasting it on motoring stuff.

If sir you really really need to substantiate then go speak to an inspector or above try and do it in a round about and matter of fact way,better still go chat to you local court manager,i found the one for Bristol to be very helpfull and open twice but most wont let you record them and quite righ too.
If you truely know the truth in your heart then an off the record chat should suffice.....unless you want to make trouble for the sake of it or you just want a free ride

[number_6]

oh and whatever was writen to substantiate the freeman principles has been either changed or manipulated as a result of people showing they know and wasting it on motoring stuff.


I can see some substance in that.

[the nine]

So, Fred of the Bloggs family, might in fact mean Fred without the Blogs family?

why not?
families separate too :D

[scottmurray]

I can see some substance in that.
look its simple we live in(supposed) a democray yes?thats choice folks.

Judges do not lie you just give them cause for reasonasble doubt,you bring your ability to use your discretion into question YOU CANNOT PROFIT your refusal has to be founded otherwise you give juristiction through dishonour,thats why with the financial stuff its a conditional acceptance rebuttal letters that way the judge has no choice but to see you are being reasonable and in consideration.COMMON LAW IS COMMAN SENSE FOR WE COMMON PEOPLE otherwise all bets are off and we are instruments rather than free .
for goodness sake archie mitchel was talking staute law loopholes to get sam mitchell off a charge in mondays or tuesdays eastenders............honsest go through bbc i player you are looking for thew scene where he brings in the bent lawyer.
You actually couldnt make this shit up and if you did its a hell of a stunt pulling eastenders into the loop.

[john white]

Nice posts Scott :)

[mossdog]

look its simple we live in(supposed) a democray yes?thats choice folks.


for goodness sake archie mitchel was talking staute law loopholes to get sam mitchell off a charge in mondays or tuesdays eastenders...........
You actually couldnt make this shit up .

not sure i understand your point

eastenders is made up ????????????????????

[scottmurray]

Nice posts Scott :)thanks mate

[scottmurray]

not sure i understand your point

eastenders is made up ????????????????????
no no no ,my point is that even eastender producers are aware
of the"loopholes"in the statute versus case law as they ever so matter of factly wrote them into a sub plot and these people do their absolute best in every show to do a "true snapshot" of the current trends and issues,take the illegall bill posters put up in the market square ....They actually are of current events of the day so the producers must take the time to seek out the promoters of these events to get copies of the current posters thats how serious they are about the old "true snapshot".
Did you know it was genrally accepted that most of the top business people actaully never ever miss eastenders cause it is a wonderfull guage of how the nation is or will be feeling so they know what to sell how to the masses................ the citeable bit to illustaite this commonly accepted principle was
michelle fowler(a key charicter at the time) did an access to higher education college course and within a week the applications to all the colleges that offered them nationally went up 11 fold.
We was even advertised op easterDooRS for goodness sake boys.

[yozhik]

There is a celebrity lawyer.
Has made a career of getting rich people off driving charges.
His is known as [trademarked the name?] Mr Loophole.

Enough said.