Help needed with debt collector

[wacaday]

Hi,

This is my first post and prompted by a need for advice on dealing with a debt collector.

The company started out as HG(Harlands) and has now switched to CRS (Credit Resolution Services).

The so called debt is for a Gym membership with a one off independent gym in london. I joined the gym 4 months ago and only went a few times as i find working out at home and outside far more beneficial.

Aside from the fact that when sold the membership i feel certain important pieces of info were not divulged, i am not happy to continue to use that gym.

Ok, so i paid the first months membership, then defaulted on every month since. I had an annoying letter from HG saying i owed the monthly memb. for august lets say, + £30 admin fee. this continued for 4 months. I have ignored it up till now as i have no contract with this third party and have not agreed or signed to say i agree to their charges. etc

Now, CRS (who i suspect are the same organisation as they are operating from exactly the same office) have sent me a demand of payment for the full 12 months membership = £828 + £289 (standard charge)

"Your debt with the Real Fight Club has now been passed to us for collection.

In accordance with the terms and conditions of your contract with the Real Fight Club, you have now also become responsible for our fees in recovering this outstanding amount. Our standard charge of £289.80 has therefore been applied bringing the full outstanding balance to £1117.80

You can now speak to us about this debt. The real fight club will simply refer you back to us if you contact them.

Please cal on .........to arange payment

A collector will be used to recover your balance if you do not call us by 23 november, which may lead to you being taken to court.


We want to help you to clear this debt but failure to address the matter may result in further fees being applied, so please call today."

I would very much appreciate your advice, and if anyone has a standard template to use that would be great. I haven't contracted with CRS or HG, i haven'r received the services they are trying to charge for, and by the sound of it even if i paid i would not receive those services anyway. All thsi despite the fact i wasn't happy with the gym anyway

Thanks in advance for your help.

RG09

[wacaday]

not my first post, i posted on tpuc for the first time.

[john white]

Ah the old "Gym membership which is really a credit agreement" blag: its a classic money trap. The Gym business is inherently corrupt, operators know most of the punters barely ever use the gym, and they get loads of people to sign credit agreements because they know people are trying to psych themselves up to commit to get fit and will sign to "encourage" themselves even as they know most will fail. They make sure they get paid basically and the credit agency will be directly connected to the gym. It's the cash collecting arm for "all those smartarses who think just cos they don't use the gym they shouldn't have to pay"

However you are right you don't have a contract with the credit agency, of course their aim is to frighten you into making one. Then they can take you to court if you fail to honour that contract swiftly and easily, without having to prove valid contract with the gym membership: the gym is no longer part of the dispute when the contract with the credit agency is made

It seems to me that if I was trying to fight something like this, I'd firstly kick myself hard up the arse for not knowing what I was signing back in the gym:)

That done, I would then refuse to contract with the collection agency, and deal only with the gym. I might refuse to pay the gym on the basis the contract was unfair, the credit statutes weren't followed, not explained to me, no cooling off period, etc: or I might offer the gym a payment to close the contract (say 25% of the amount they are asking). They would then either accept my offer and that would be business done, or they would go to court but then have to try to win the case as the gym and not the collection agency. They wont like that, think of the bad publicity :)

Chances are a little fish wriggling that much might be worth letting go

[wacaday]

Hi John,

Thanks for the advice, it's a good place to start. And yes totally, i ought to give myself a good kick for joining in the first place.

I see what you mean, the gym won't want the publicity etc. First of the debt agency will try to tell me i have to deal, with them, so i basicaly have to stand my ground and refuse, which i have the right ot do as i have no agreement with them.

No, if they have bought the debt, am i not free and clear, as i don't owe the gym anymore, and have no contract with the agency?

Also, if they haven't bought the debt and i end up dealing with the gym, (they'll probably write it off anyway,as it's too much hassle for them, with no certainty of any revenue.) Is it actually lawful to bind me to pay for something i am not going to use, even if i have signed a contract with them. Especially if i am unhappy with the service. This may seem a silly question as i have signed something, but something tells me they can't force payments unless a service is received.
I may be wrong there.

[scottmurray]

take THEM to court first that way it is YOU who employs the services of the judge and THEM who do not get a fair hearing as the judge is biased to YOU his customer.
So get in first cos it really is that simple.

[john white]

No, if they have bought the debt, am i not free and clear, as i don't owe the gym anymore, and have no contract with the agency?

Also, if they haven't bought the debt and i end up dealing with the gym, (they'll probably write it off anyway,as it's too much hassle for them, with no certainty of any revenue.) Is it actually lawful to bind me to pay for something i am not going to use, even if i have signed a contract with them. Especially if i am unhappy with the service. This may seem a silly question as i have signed something, but something tells me they can't force payments unless a service is received.
I may be wrong there.

I'm not sure you have any contract with anyone else but the Gym at this point, but I can't know as I dont know what contracts you've made

First step then is sit down and read question and understand what you have already got: then you know where you are. you do need to find out if your orginal contract authorised the transfer of ownership of the contract on the gym's side to another party of their choosing, and you may need to seek CAB advice or a laywer consultation if you cant clearly tell. Perhaps write to the Gym and ask THEM if their contract allowed for such a thing, and proof of same (within 10 working days)

And you should write and ask for "proof of claim within 10 working days" to anyone claiming you owe them money over this

The idea would be to have no contract with anyone but the gym and keep it that way, if that's your position great. Then you are in dispute with the orignal party, you can make them an offer, and if they refuse your then in honour going into court, should they pursue it further

[asky]

John White wrote
I'm not sure you have any contract with anyone else but the Gym at this point, but I can't know as I dont know what contracts you've made

You have no financial contract with the gym if you took out a credit agreement for membership the credit company pays the gym up front and you pay the credit company.
The gym simply cancels your membership after the credit company informs them you have stopped paying and then the credit company chases the debt.

asky

[wacaday]

Hi,

Ok so the agreement is/could be with Harlands, even though the membership agreement was implied at the time to be with the gym. Surely this is deceit and couldn't stand up in court?

None of the additonal charges were divulged at the time of joining, or the seperate company etc.

Surely my contract is with the Gym and they just use another company to arrange payment. How can the Gym pose as the 2nd party in every way and then the contract not be with them, like i say, surely that is deceit?

I intend to write asking for proof of the debt first.

thanks for your input

[wacaday]

oh right, i just re read your message, pretty sure there was definately no mention of a credit agreement with anyone, i paid the first month on my debit card there and then, and then the money was to be transferred monthly from my account by standing order. So even if there is a credit agreement, this was never mentioned.

i will write to the gym to find out anyway.

[thebarfly1]

I wouldnt bother contacting the gym. Your debt with them has been cleared by the collection agency. As other people have said, ask the collection agency for proof of debt- if they cant provide that then they dont have a leg to stand on.
Has worked for me in the past.

These collection agencies work on the principle that they reckon they can cajole the consumer into paying them, but its a high risk industry because they have no contract with the customer. They're after paying your gym maybe 60% or so of the value of your debt, so the gym are happy and the collection agency are hoping to make a profit on the product they've aquired. Its an industry that thrives on peoples ignorance.

[wacaday]

Excellent, thanks Barfly, thats what i thought, but never having actually done it, i wasn't sure>

I have a letter prepared and will send it recorded delivery.

one question, i cannot send it until thursday, as thats when i get paid and its a tight week. if they did send someone round to talk to me, i can send them packing on the same principle i guess. (well what else can they do)

[number_6]

Before you do anything, it may be an idea to carefully go through the terms and conditions of the gym membership application that you signed. You may find a clause where you have agreed if you default on the contract you agree the gym may assign the balance outstanding to a third party.
It would be very rare for a debt collector to visit. Even if they do, remember they have no powers whatsoever, they cannot remove goods, and you can tell them to go away.

[dhama_initiative]

disgusting that they would name themselves after a great film that was against materialism and capitalism!

[deem]

If you go to the website 'Screw the bailiffs' they have template letters which will help you with your needs.:D