Icke´s most controversial theory

[trampoline]

I´m looking for a logical debate on the theory of reptilian shapeshifters. It is obviously the most extreme concept Icke talks about, a fact which he acknowledges himself.

This theory has on its own managed to get a lot of people to ridicule him and by association reject extremely relevant facts that he has also written and talked about.

I believe you should not reject ideas without at least some examination. I agree that this theory of such a nature that it is hard to prove and hard to literally disprove. However I think logical assumptions can be made.

So, to sum up the theory itself as I understand it: There is a certain DNA structure, a result of reptilian aliens crossbreeding with humans that was passed on through the royal bloodlines of Europe and the elite of today that enables these human reptilian hybrids to shapeshift from human to reptile as long as they drink human blood. They are hyperdimensional beings that come from the lower planes of the fourth dimension.

This would explain the inhumane practices of todays elite, their lack of empathy and their sophisticated methods of social control and manipulation. This would also explain the numerous myths in all corners of the world of reptilians and dragons and some misinterpreted bible verses.

There is more obviously but this should be enough as most people here are probably already aware of the basic theory. However there are a few major problems with it.

The first and most obvious one... According to it these hybrid beings have been mating with and eating humans for centuries. Their numbers would have multiplied with each generation making the current amount of shapeshifting reptiles walking on this earth today somewhat unbelievable.

I´m not sure which is suggested, whether these beings are born in human form but can than shapeshift into reptilian form upon eating blood, or the other way around. And if it is possible to be a reptilian without knowing it or being different in any other way. It seems though that the general idea is that these world leaders are "reptilian" and shapeshift to human to deceive us.

This also brings up the question whether DNA testing would not have revealed some major differences between the structure of these hybrids and humans.

It would be possible to maintain that only the secret society members of these hybrids have been made aware of their reptilian origin, and because most people are not regularly engaged in blood drinking, would therefore not discover their ability to transform into a reptilian.

Still, it has been claimed that the mere smell or sight of blood could arouse them enough to lose their shape as humans. Most people have come in contact with human blood, I don´t think that there are many reports of people claiming they have a weird craving to drink blood.

Now, even though the number reptiles would have somehow been contained to a level that could hypothetically be concealed from the public, the sheer number of the alleged aware human/reptile shapeshifters still contain many problems.

Before the internet this idea might have been partially conceivable. At the time Icke wrote about it in 1996 it would be harder to dismiss.

With all the media figures, politicians, celebrities and bankers that are supposedly reptilian, how would not one youtube video have surfaced of an actual shapeshifting? Not even ones that are purported to be fake? With all the videos out there on ufo´s, aliens and ghosts not one has shown a human shapeshift into a reptile...? With video cameras now even in cell phones?

Is it credible that their control grid is so powerful? If so would there really any hope of dismantling it?

My experience is that not all information can be suppressed, although an obvious effort is made by the ruling class to limit the flow of certain types of information.

One of David Icke´s explanation for looking at this theory was that so many people were coming up to him with reports of seeing people in positions of power shapeshift to reptilians.

Why aren´t all these people reporting their experiences in numbers on youtube and other websites? this forum perhaps?

Also on that point. It is clearly circumstancial evidence at best, if he would have these statements on record that is. In the way he has presented it thus far it can only be considered hear say. It has a sense of legitimacy initially because of the credibility Icke has generated for brilliant speeches and analyzis on the global situation.

Add to this that according to Icke, he has claimed that it is becoming increasingly difficult for these beings to "stay in shape" because of a vibrational shift that is occuring on earth.

Seems to me that there would have to be so many reptiles having to conceal their blood drinking nature that it would be impossible. Especially considering that most of the people that are supposed to be reptiles are people whose lives are higly scrutinized.

First of all, celebrities, can you imagine with the tabloid mania that scrutinizes every moves and actions of celebrities would never have caught some alarming photos of blood drinking and the consumption of human flesh? or a shapeshifting face, something? they can catch every show of cleavage but not that?

And politicans, how many reptilians are supposedly working in the white house? Or just working in the white house where the president, presumably reptilian is living? Would noone notice?

With all the work that goes into campaigning for president, giving interviews, holding speeches and attending ceremonies. Where do they fit in all the blood drinking?

Icke has also talked about mind control victim Cathy O´Brien speaking about reptilians.

So... the mind control victim that has been sexually molested, traumatized and given hallucinogenic drugs reported that her molesters at some points turned into reptiles...?

Forgive the irony, but I don´t think the testimony would hold up in court.

Finally I have a problem with the concept that they are from the lower planes of the firth dimension. What does that really mean?

Isn´t the firth dimension usually explained as the dimension of time?

Does that mean they can operate in the dimension of time also... and by that does that mean they are capable of time travel? or what? What does it actually mean?

Aside from that, I haven´t seen any really concrete reasons to believe this theory. I don´t exclude some sort of alien interaction with humans whose specifics we are unaware of. But this has a lot of holes in it.

So I´m curious, what are your thoughts on this. I think Icke is a brilliant speaker and people should check out his lectures. But a lot of people I talk to will just laugh it off because of this theory. And this line of logic is often the reason why... This gives people the opportunity to dismiss completely legitimate theories without further examination which is just the opposite of what we need people to be doing.

Of course if this is what David Icke truly believes I encourage him to speak out about it, that is his decision and it is our decision whether we think it makes sense or not.

I don´t, if you can convince me otherwise, all the best to you.

Just to make an informal survey, how many people here can come forward that have seen somebody shapeshift into a reptilian?

Or have a friend that has seen somebody shapeshift into a reptilian?

Or have a friend who has a friend who has seen somebody shapeshift into a reptilian?

We must be logical, if this theory can´t stand the test of logic it must be dismissed and disgarded. Otherwise we are simply damaging the efforts to get people to wake up to the nature of the conspiracy we are facing.

[iwant_tobreak_free]

I do see your point. There is this problem with how difficult it is to prove and accept. I think it is good in the sense lt opens your mind. Whether or not the reptilian humanoids exist or not is another matter!

[chris]

There's no physical proof of reptilian shapeshifters...The evidence in symbolism is extremely weak, most of it is symbolising the Kundalini energies and the interpretations of the annunaki are gonig to be very difficult to present as evidence because not one of us here speaks sumarian...

You will never sway a logical thinker into believing in shapeshifting reptilians, the best you could possibly do is to go into the "You can't prove a negative" philosophy to which their persons answer usually is "And you can't disprove snails created the sun but there's no evidence for it."

That said, I've seen shapeshifting reptilians in my dreams. In one of them I was approaching a desert Island where I could feel a presence, then suddenly I realised what it was and saw a very close up view of a womans beautiful eyes, then the letters flashed before my vision, A then N and then N, U, N, A, K, I and in between seeing those letters, the beautiful womens eyes and cheek bones shifted slightly until at the end I was looking right at a Reptilians slit eyes and a half/human reptilian cheeks, nose (it was so close up that I didn't see the full face).

Could it be a figment of an overactive imagination? Could there be some truth to it? There's no way to prove it, you've just got to file it away as it is and leave some stuff for the X-files folder to be re-looked at when more evidence is presented.

[neutrino]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.

[clachan]

I have to agree with what the OP says.

Much of what DI says makes sense,in 2002 he published "Alice in wonderland and the WTC disaster"....7 years later and most of his theory still stands up.

His take on the death of the princess of Wales makes good sense,his research is amazing and he is obviously a switched on guy.

But......Edward Heath,a shape shifting blood drinking lizard ?
The late Queen mother a 9 foot tall blood drinking lizard ?

Gotta say,Im a sceptic untill more evidence is produced....it just does not ring true.....imo

[clachan]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.

This would make more sense.

[pessi_optimist]

trampoline brings up some interesting points, especially in regards to why there is not even the slightest photgraphic evidence.

I know Icke has put particular emphasis on shape-shifting, but i always was under the impression that it was more interdimensionally manipulated, controlled from another plane. Now, if a person can accept the possibility of ET life, then they should be able to accept the possibility that a particular form of ET life is not only in contact with us but has the human population under control. But as for ''Reptilian'' ET's morphing into the Queen of England? Hey, i'm open, but it'd take a HELL of alot of convincing!

However, there are many, many accounts from people in regards to shapeshifters, including one from my friend. He was in some sort of holistic retreat in India, was basically speaking to another guy, and he says that he briefly saw this mans facials features morph into that of a reptilian-esque feature. He can only describe it as reptilian-esque because he has a reference point with a crocodile, or snake. He has a strange energy from this 'man' in the first instance, but he was sure that this 'man' was revealing it to him, as opposed to trying to keep in under wraps.

But anyhow, whether these 'sightings' from people are down to mind imbalances, suggestion, or the sheer power of imagination or delusion cannot be solved as of yet.

[erthiz]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.



Exactly!

Its not a shapeshift of the physical body, but basically you see their true self.

Their physical bodies are just fronts for our frequency range, when people see reptilians, its because the frequency ranges cross for a split second, thus, making the person believe they shapeshifted, when in fact they just saw their true form.

The reptilians operate on a denser frequency range, this is why we cant see their reptilian form.

[trev1]

I defo believe there are hybrid bloodlines that control the agenda /
direction of the world - elite if you wanna call them that...

Reptiles? Im not convinced - HOWEVER reading Davids books its very
interesting getting into 'earth history' and how humans could have
been quite possibly genetically manipulated with by an iintelligent ET
race thousands of years ago that then mated/copulated with them.

[snapdragon]

I can see reptilians at a glance. It is more like sensing danger you cannot see with your eyes around a corner, when the hairs on your neck stand on edge than actually seeing a person with a forked tongue and scales.

[drakul]

From the first time I read the Biggest Secret - I thought Icke's reptilian theory was dynamite. No I don't go in for the Queen Mother is a 9 foot lizard who shoves knives up little boys butts garbage, however if you think of Reptilians in terms of DEMONS it works very well. Reptilians are demons. Theyh exist in another dimension and try to influence our thoughts and actions and even possess some weak-minded people (`the devil made me do it'). The ancients always knew about the existence and the threat of demons.

David talks about the Royal Families of Europe as Reptilian Hybrids who are `easier to control'. After doing some bloodline research, I think what makes the Royals easier to control is that they are so incredibly inbred that they have lost basic intelligence and self-determination. That's why they are easier to control, not because they are `reptile hybrids'. I read that Prince Charles has 1200 links to Charlemagne. They ALL go back to Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne. That was the deal Charlemagne made with the Pope in 820AD, that Charlie boy would forcibly convert his subjects to Catholocism and in return all the royal houses of Europe would have to marry his sons and daughters and their descendants. It is amazing how these people wed their first cousins, aunts and uncles, all to keep that Charlemagne linkage. Queen Victoria wed her first cousin Albert, an imported German stud muffin, specially for her.

Any animal breeder knows about `hybrid vigor'. In the case of the Royals it's not hybrid vigor it is INBRED DEGENERACY. That's why the Royals never do anything significant, never say anything significant, they are bred to be the real sheople.

[erthiz]

I defo believe there are hybrid bloodlines that control the agenda /
direction of the world - elite if you wanna call them that...

Reptiles? Im not convinced - HOWEVER reading Davids books its very
interesting getting into 'earth history' and how humans could have
been quite possibly genetically manipulated with by an iintelligent ET
race thousands of years ago that then mated/copulated with them.


Yeah ive read his work on earth history, its brilliant in my opinion.

I dont know why people have a problem with believing in 'reptilian aliens', i mean, i say to people "Do you believe in aliens?", most say "yes", so i say "what do you think they look like?", and 9 times out of 10 their response is "they could look like anything...". Exactly!! so they can look like a reptiles then? :)

[clachan]

Yeah ive read his work on earth history, its brilliant in my opinion.

I dont know why people have a problem with believing in 'reptilian aliens', i mean, i say to people "Do you believe in aliens?", most say "yes", so i say "what do you think they look like?", and 9 times out of 10 their response is "they could look like anything...". Exactly!! so they can look like a reptiles then? :)

True,but cant get my head around things like Queen mother=9 foot tale canabalistic lizard,however i dont know she wasn,t.

[neutrino]

IMO Icke is correct about the Reptilians and as I said earlier about how people seem to see shapeshifting taking place but I think at some point Icke was given disinformation by that woman, I really can't remember her name, but she starts talking about how the Queen would turn into a bloodthirsty Reptilian and feed on real flesh during rituals.

That woman IMO was a disinformationist, made to trick Icke into writing about it as fact and making a lot of people think he's crazy.

[erthiz]

True,but cant get my head around things like Queen mother=9 foot tale canabalistic lizard,however i dont know she wasn,t.

haha yeah i know, that is a difficult one to get your head around, and i cant say thats true because i dont know if it is or not.

but going back to my beliefs, reptilians operate on a different frequency range, and when people claim theyve seen others shapeshift into reptiles, its basically just the frequencies crossing, causing the reptilians to show their true form for a split second.

[darketernal]

All right, I’ll take the bait on this one and get the ball rolling. I’m fairly well known on this forum for claiming to come from such a bloodline, and for having seen “shapeshifts”. A great many of the posts on this subject are written by individuals whose ability to articulate their experiences is lacking at times, however a large number of apparently rather sane and well spoken individuals who do frequent this forum either come from similar bloodlines (most refuse to discuss this in the open) or have witnessed “shapeshifts”. Many of these individuals do come to me to talk in private, and I think this would be a wonderful thread for a few of them to bring things into the forefront. I do understand that many of you of legitimate “hybrid”/”bloodline” descent cannot openly discuss some things, as you lack the protection some of us have been afforded by our previous status, service and genetic value, and therefore I will not try to force you into the open.

To the OP, yes I’ve observed this phenomenon first hand, and have a reasonable working knowledge on the subject. However like all other eyewitness testimony such claims are easily dismissed as lies, cries for attention, created fragments of human memory or delusions. I will also say that anyone who possesses absolute evidence would be dead before they successfully got that evidence to a computer to upload it. That is not something I state as a matter of connivance to assist my side of the argument, it is simply a fact of the situation given my own understanding of the matter, and it is not convenient, but rather is an unfortunate situation that will continue to hinder the ability of the subject to be taken seriously.

I do not however agree with all of David’s assertions on the matter, nor do I personally feel all of his sources have been completely reliable in their data. However I will answer reasonable questions in this thread on the subject as best I am able… and I absolutely urge others who can do so in a coherent and intelligent manner to try to answer questions as well. Perhaps even a tally of people who have seen a reptilian or a partial or full “shapeshift” firsthand could say so, without revealing any details with which they are uncomfortable.

[erthiz]

Hey DarkEternal :)

So do you believe/know people shapeshift physically, like the human body physically changes to reptilian, or do you have another belief?

Thanks

[pessi_optimist]

All right, I’ll take the bait on this one and get the ball rolling. I’m fairly well known on this forum for claiming to come from such a bloodline, and for having seen “shapeshifts”. A great many of the posts on this subject are written by individuals whose ability to articulate their experiences is lacking at times, however a large number of apparently rather sane and well spoken individuals who do frequent this forum either come from similar bloodlines (most refuse to discuss this in the open) or have witnessed “shapeshifts”. Many of these individuals do come to me to talk in private, and I think this would be a wonderful thread for a few of them to bring things into the forefront. I do understand that many of you of legitimate “hybrid”/”bloodline” descent cannot openly discuss some things, as you lack the protection some of us have been afforded by our previous status, service and genetic value, and therefore I will not try to force you into the open.

To the OP, yes I’ve observed this phenomenon first hand, and have a reasonable working knowledge on the subject. However like all other eyewitness testimony such claims are easily dismissed as lies, cries for attention, created fragments of human memory or delusions. I will also say that anyone who possesses absolute evidence would be dead before they successfully got that evidence to a computer to upload it. That is not something I state as a matter of connivance to assist my side of the argument, it is simply a fact of the situation given my own understanding of the matter, and it is not convenient, but rather is an unfortunate situation that will continue to hinder the ability of the subject to be taken seriously.

I do not however agree with all of David’s assertions on the matter, nor do I personally feel all of his sources have been completely reliable in their data. However I will answer reasonable questions in this thread on the subject as best I am able… and I absolutely urge others who can do so in a coherent and intelligent manner to try to answer questions as well. Perhaps even a tally of people who have seen a reptilian or a partial or full “shapeshift” firsthand could say so, without revealing any details with which they are uncomfortable.

Ok, can you explain in detail a handful of your experiences, and if you had direct communication with such an entity? Thanks

[pessi_optimist]

By communication a mean, an exchange be that verbally or telepathically

[neutrino]

IMO Icke is correct about the Reptilians and as I said earlier about how people seem to see shapeshifting taking place but I think at some point Icke was given disinformation by that woman, I really can't remember her name, but she starts talking about how the Queen would turn into a bloodthirsty Reptilian and feed on real flesh during rituals.

That woman IMO was a disinformationist, made to trick Icke into writing about it as fact and making a lot of people think he's crazy.

Does anyone know the name of the woman to whom I'm referring? it's on the tip of my tongue.

[erthiz]

Does anyone know the name of the woman to whom I'm referring? it's on the tip of my tongue.

Not Cathy O'Brien?

[neutrino]

Not Cathy O'Brien?

No that's not it.

She claims to have been one of a select few who performed the rituals for the Queen and loads of other who would then turn into Reptilians and feed on the victims.

[biblegirl]

Arizona Wilder

[neutrino]

arizona wilder

That's the one!

IMO she was a disinformationist who was feeding Icke false information to make him look crazy by saying that the Queen etc are actually physically Reptilians.
However going by the video of Icke where he talks about what I mentioned in my other post perhaps he woke up to her disinformation.

[erthiz]

No that's not it.

She claims to have been one of a select few who performed the rituals for the Queen and loads of other who would then turn into Reptilians and feed on the victims.


2 minutes, i have his latest book in my bedroom, i swear i remember seeing another name

haha there u go

[limelady]

I think its important to keep in mind that both Cathy O'Brian and Arizona Wilder were victims of extreme mind-control complete with physical and mental abuse.....i.e. trauma (while existing with compartmentalised personalities), and NOW that their programming has broken down, while the essence of their re-telling of events may well be true, there is strong possibility that at least some of their recollections are slightly skewed versions of what actually happened.

[biblegirl]

I know the man who wrote the following, when he told me about what happened he said that Bradley witnessed Lawrence Rockefeller shapeshift into a tall reptilian during the ritual. Neither Croft (who wrote this) nor Bradley have any association with David Icke, but are very aware of the reptilian aspect from their own experiences:

... taken in Devil's Punchbowl on that fateful day in August, 2004, when each of us were so severely tested during a gifting mission there. It was a primary human sacrifice ritual location in Southern California for which the CIA provided kidnapped young children from nearby 'pens' on restricted, alleged federal land in the desert. Bradley had erased Lawrence Rockefeller, there, a few nights earlier after he witnessed LR cut the beating heart out of an eight year old girl and begin to eat it. He had been gifting the perimeter, looking for the sacrifice spot earlier that day and was watching from the rim of the canyon late that night.
...It was in his backyard, that night, that I first heard the characteristic clicking sound of reptilians who were surveilling us from the surrounding property. If I were a top science fiction author I'd be unable to make up anything as bizarre as what we experienced and observed that day. Bradley had done so much gifting in and around LA that I'd considered the possibility of moving there to lend a hand but I just can't stand living around so many heartless, smiling reptiles, I'm sorry to say, and LA is and will perhaps remain Reptile Central.http://www.ethericwarriors.com/ip/viewtopic.php?t=565

pic of Rockefeller from Wiki:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Laurance_S._Rockefeller_NYWTS.jpg/751px-Laurance_S._Rockefeller_NYWTS.jpg

[michael christopher]

My opinion on reptilians is that they are a spirit which is real - but which may not necessarily be literally "reptilian." I think of it more as demonic energy, or self-aware memes trapped within the human energy field.

I like David, I really do. I can't say however that I agree with him that there are physical reptilian shapeshifters walking around worshiping Satan and drinking blood. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and David has not provided any kind of conclusive evidence whatsoever. His proof is usually a retelling of a story that he was told, or research into ancient history that only brings up ancient symbols. He's never provided a reptilian scale for examination, a video of reptilians, nothing of the sort that can really be scrutinized by science. He merely researches history and religion and the symbols of those two things that have survived for thousands of years. I think it's a fallacy to assume that because ancient cultures worshiped reptile beings that reptile beings were literally real. They also worshiped angels and demons and all sorts of things. The Egyptians worshiped animal people of all sorts and called these spirits "watchers." They worshiped half-hippo people. However, Icke doesn't go around telling people that there are hippotilians. Or bird people. Or cat people. It's reptiles he focuses on.

Seems rather arbitrary to me.

To me, reptilian energy is a metaphor for egoic energy. The reptilian is a version of ourselves that is inside of all of us. We can be possessed by our own emotions and facets when we lose control of our true nature and succumb to anger, weakness or negativity. We become reptilian in nature when we embrace the whim of our reptilian inner brain, when we act out the dramas of our ego.

That aside, there aren't any real reptilians, at least in my opinion. And if someone would like to make me believe otherwise, I'd like to see some honest to God proof and not just "research" involving ancient history and not just hear-say coming from delusional, hysterical people.

[delamo1999]

There's no physical proof of reptilian shapeshifters...The evidence in symbolism is extremely weak, most of it is symbolising the Kundalini energies and the interpretations of the annunaki are gonig to be very difficult to present as evidence because not one of us here speaks sumarian...

You will never sway a logical thinker into believing in shapeshifting reptilians, the best you could possibly do is to go into the "You can't prove a negative" philosophy to which their persons answer usually is "And you can't disprove snails created the sun but there's no evidence for it."

That said, I've seen shapeshifting reptilians in my dreams. In one of them I was approaching a desert Island where I could feel a presence, then suddenly I realised what it was and saw a very close up view of a womans beautiful eyes, then the letters flashed before my vision, A then N and then N, U, N, A, K, I and in between seeing those letters, the beautiful womens eyes and cheek bones shifted slightly until at the end I was looking right at a Reptilians slit eyes and a half/human reptilian cheeks, nose (it was so close up that I didn't see the full face).

Could it be a figment of an overactive imagination? Could there be some truth to it? There's no way to prove it, you've just got to file it away as it is and leave some stuff for the X-files folder to be re-looked at when more evidence is presented.

I hate to contradict you Chris, but looking back I remember being able to see reptilians as a small child. Sometimes when my folks took us out shopping, I would see certain people, mostly men, suddenly shapeshift into a reptilian and then quickly back. I would then feel a real chill after seeing this happen. This ability of mine waned quickly as soon as I told my folks about it. But I saw this happen WITH MY OWN EYES.

My experience is your proof.

[clachan]

All right, I’ll take the bait on this one and get the ball rolling. I’m fairly well known on this forum for claiming to come from such a bloodline, and for having seen “shapeshifts”. A great many of the posts on this subject are written by individuals whose ability to articulate their experiences is lacking at times, however a large number of apparently rather sane and well spoken individuals who do frequent this forum either come from similar bloodlines (most refuse to discuss this in the open) or have witnessed “shapeshifts”. Many of these individuals do come to me to talk in private, and I think this would be a wonderful thread for a few of them to bring things into the forefront. I do understand that many of you of legitimate “hybrid”/”bloodline” descent cannot openly discuss some things, as you lack the protection some of us have been afforded by our previous status, service and genetic value, and therefore I will not try to force you into the open.

To the OP, yes I’ve observed this phenomenon first hand, and have a reasonable working knowledge on the subject. However like all other eyewitness testimony such claims are easily dismissed as lies, cries for attention, created fragments of human memory or delusions. I will also say that anyone who possesses absolute evidence would be dead before they successfully got that evidence to a computer to upload it. That is not something I state as a matter of connivance to assist my side of the argument, it is simply a fact of the situation given my own understanding of the matter, and it is not convenient, but rather is an unfortunate situation that will continue to hinder the ability of the subject to be taken seriously.

I do not however agree with all of David’s assertions on the matter, nor do I personally feel all of his sources have been completely reliable in their data. However I will answer reasonable questions in this thread on the subject as best I am able… and I absolutely urge others who can do so in a coherent and intelligent manner to try to answer questions as well. Perhaps even a tally of people who have seen a reptilian or a partial or full “shapeshift” firsthand could say so, without revealing any details with which they are uncomfortable.

Is it a matter of being able to articulate ones self or a simple question of was the late Queen mother a 9 foot tall canabalistic reptile ?

A simple question really from what you may consider a simple mind.

Or is it a matter of perception and the ability to be able see such things?

Is it a fact or fiction ?

Ofcourse Iam not rejecting the idea,imo beings do exist on a different vibrational level,but clarification is needed to shed some light on the subject.

Its no good saying to people who take an interest in the subject "you cant understand because you,re not one of us"

[darketernal]

Hey DarkEternal :)

So do you believe/know people shapeshift physically, like the human body physically changes to reptilian, or do you have another belief?

Thanks

Alright, this question is a very good one. The entire subject is confusing because there is very little information available to the public on this. People see these shapeshifts but have idea what exactly they are viewing, and that includes many insiders.

Hybrids do not shapeshift. I know that flies in the face of Swerdlow’s work and what Arizona Wilder has said, but in my own experience hybrids, such as myself do not have an inherent ability to do this. Hybrids who have formed a symbiosis (or you could call it a host/parasite relationship or possession if that suits your comprehension better) with a reptilian (or draco) are the one’s who develop this ability. It is not the host that has the ability to “shapeshift” but rather the reptilian being who phases into the space and pushes the physical body of the human/hybrid out of phase with this dimension. There is no changing in the physical structure of the person per se. That would cause all sorts of cellular damage, and the heat generated would denature proteins etc. Think of it more a switching of places.

To further confuse the matter, you have to keep in mind there are physical and purely astral reptilians operating here (there are presently no know physical dracos on earth). This type of phasing is only done through physical reptilian/human hybrid symbiotes. Most of the cases are actually astral symbiotes who do not do this. When they appear to shapeshift it is purely a spiritual manifestation, which is very often only seen by those who are more psychically sensitive or able to see into other dimensions. This would not be visible on a camera.


Ok, can you explain in detail a handful of your experiences, and if you had direct communication with such an entity? Thanks

I've covered a bit of the physical experiences in the reptilian family members stickie. My astral experiences with said beings are too extensive to cover. I think a great deal of the confusion is because there are both physical and astral reptilians that people do not know if we refer to physical or spiritual beings.

I've not seen a physical reptilian in 15 years. However my interaction with astral one's is frequint, to say the least.

By communication a mean, an exchange be that verbally or telepathically

They always communicate via telepathy.

[chazdarwin]

This is exactly what i joined the forum to study, the OP raises alot of questions i have myself, its such a huge concept its alot to take in but this thread is a mine of info already :)

[darketernal]

Is it a matter of being able to articulate ones self or a simple question of was the late Queen mother a 9 foot tall canabalistic reptile ?

A simple question really from what you may consider a simple mind.

Or is it a matter of perception and the ability to be able see such things?

Is it a fact or fiction ?

Ofcourse Iam not rejecting the idea,imo beings do exist on a different vibrational level,but clarification is needed to shed some light on the subject.

Its no good saying to people who take an interest in the subject "you cant understand because you,re not one of us"

By the ability to articulate, I am refering to the fact that many who have experiences with these things have been left rather traumatised, many have undergone extensive programing and tampering with their minds, and it seems their ability to discuss the matter intelligently has been compromised. For some the events were so emotionally they cannot discuss it without a panic attack, such as one friend who has told me their story who is a regular poster here, who I seriously doubt with come forward with their story in the open forum ever.

No it is very much a subject people are capable of understanding, however it is a subject that is understood by very few people, and most of them are not willing to part with the knowledge in order for you to have it. It is a case of ignorance not people having simple minds.

[trev1]

I can see reptilians at a glance. It is more like sensing danger you cannot see with your eyes around a corner, when the hairs on your neck stand on edge than actually seeing a person with a forked tongue and scales.

OMG Snapdragon thats scary :o

[trev1]

I hate to contradict you Chris, but looking back I remember being able to see reptilians as a small child. Sometimes when my folks took us out shopping, I would see certain people, mostly men, suddenly shapeshift into a reptilian and then quickly back. I would then feel a real chill after seeing this happen. This ability of mine waned quickly as soon as I told my folks about it. But I saw this happen WITH MY OWN EYES.

My experience is your proof.

Respect !

[les_paul_robot]

The Terra Papers explain the Reptilians' role in our creation and their continued meddling
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16267603/The-Terra-Papers-by-Robert-Morning-Sky

[darketernal]

I hate to contradict you Chris, but looking back I remember being able to see reptilians as a small child. Sometimes when my folks took us out shopping, I would see certain people, mostly men, suddenly shapeshift into a reptilian and then quickly back. I would then feel a real chill after seeing this happen. This ability of mine waned quickly as soon as I told my folks about it. But I saw this happen WITH MY OWN EYES.

My experience is your proof.

That would be a case of what I mentioned about astral-based symbiotes and very psychically senstive humans seeing them.

Delamo, how good is your visualization of things when you close your eyes? How much do you know about the pineal gland? What age did you stop seeing this?

[delamo1999]

That would be a case of what I mentioned about astral-based symbiotes and very psychically senstive humans seeing them.

Delamo, how good is your visualization of things when you close your eyes? How much do you know about the pineal gland? What age did you stop seeing this?

Dark Eternal, I would have to say that most of my abilities had waned by the time I was 5. My folks drilled it very hard into my head that the things that I was seeing naturally did not exist.

Now I am getting better at visualization when I have my eyes closed, but this has been a lot of work on my part. There is still more for me to do.

:)

[erthiz]

Hey guys

Forgive me if i sound a bit stupid :) but what has visualising things in your head got to do with this? because when i try to sleep at night and i close my eyes i see all sorts of things, quite clearly. Things like a human face which comes right up close to me, imagine a tunnel, it starts far away and comes closer.

[darketernal]

Hey guys

Forgive me if i sound a bit stupid :) but what has visualising things in your head got to do with this? because when i try to sleep at night and i close my eyes i see all sorts of things, quite clearly. Things like a human face which comes right up close to me, imagine a tunnel, it starts far away and comes closer.

This is a sign of an active healthy pineal gland. Something rare in adult humans as it is suppressed through social programing, diets, etc.

[erthiz]

This is a sign of an active healthy pineal gland. Something rare in adult humans as it is suppressed through social programing, diets, etc.

Ahhright i see.

[clint_giles]

please just remember people,mr icke was not the person to make these claims,opinions,theories.(fact?)

[delamo1999]

This is a sign of an active healthy pineal gland. Something rare in adult humans as it is suppressed through social programing, diets, etc.


This is good news DE!!! I have been doing a lot of work on myself, in all areas, including my diet. Visions are now starting to come back to me slowly. I have to admit that for a while now I have been seeing white energy patterns around objects.

:)

[dhama_initiative]

do most big cities have reptilians in them? How common are they? Would the UK have a lot?

[les_paul_robot]

do most big cities have reptilians in them? How common are they? Would the UK have a lot?
the Queen and some of her relatives; they live in the capital.

[gestaltdude]

I would have to say that, if you're reading the biggest secret, this is the hardest part of the whole damn book. The numbers and variations of tribes, where they migrated to etc can be extremely confusing.

What it breaks down to is the difference between a hybrid and a shape shifter. these are not intechangeable.

The hybrid is exactlky as the name suggests: a combination of replitian and human DNA resulting in a breed of human. The more alien DNA, the greater control can be exerted. This is also where we get into the whole missing link debate.

One breed of human was created to be a labour force. Alien DNa was added to advanced species of simians, resulting in a species that could walk upright, use tools and have a limited capacity for individual thought. Over the millenia this has developed, due to changes in both diet and environment, into most of the people we see about us today. These are the hybrids.

Then we have the shape shifters. Their ancestors were those whom the reptiles mated with directly, giving them a much higher percentage of alien DNA. These are the families from which most of the world's ruling class have sprung. Their greater reptilian make up makes them better suited to long term possession. Possession is most often used only when there is a need for the reptilians to take direct control to ensure the correct outcome of a given situation. That being said, with the ruling families so steeped in blood and corruption, possession is not needed as they are perfectly happy to follow the agenda.

Where it gets confusing is when one uses possession and shape shifting interchangably. Almost anyone can be possessed; it depends more on one's exposure to the negative energy that these beings thrive upon than one's bloodline. This is how you get these people committing horrible acts such as school shooting, bombings, etc. They have exposed themelves to so much negative energy that they can be possessed for a limited time, during which the reptilian is in control.

The whole shape shifting things is a misnomer. What I believe is happening is that the people witnessing the shifting is, for one reason or another, capable of perceiving energy outside the five senses. in other words, they are seeing the entity's aura, which in the ruling families is so dominated by the reptilian heritge that it would appear to be a true reptile of the old world. This is how the queen (or her mother) could appear as a reptile of such size; the energy of the true personality would overwhelm the more limited sense of sight and appear every bit a real as the flesh and blood biosuit it inhabits. As snapdragon says, its more of a perception thing than a reality.

Why can't we see them on video? Because todays imaging equipment is simply not designed to. Much like the movie "They Live" it would be much harder to control people if they could be seen for the non human entities they are.

Why do we not see celebrities and the ruling class doing all these horrible things? Because no one outside of their own circle is ever allowed to get close enough. We may see them in public, where they present their human facades and pretend they dont own the world. in private, once they get back to their estates, they are free to indulge in a bit.

The same goes with celebrities. They capture pictures of them in their underwear so we dont go looking for them feasting. Besides, most of the celebrities are in so deep their energy levels allow for near constant possession, even if they dont have the bloodlines to allow it. Why else do they have so many houses with such ridiculous security measures? It doesnt just keep the fans away, but those who might expose thm for what they relly are.

Hope this all made sense. If I've dibbled down my keyboard, let me know and I'll try to clean up my mess.

PS Nearly forgot. We aren't knee deep in reptilian half bloods because they aer vey caeful to keep breeding within their own kind. ie only someone with an accepted genetic heritage would be allowed to reproduce, this limiting potential mates to those already in the know, so to speak.

PPS Damn, damn damn. Forgot one other thing. yes the fourth dimension is time (as we currently understand it). this means that if they are observing us from this dimension, they will see things differntly. Fro example, they may perceive time at a differnet rate, so that on of their minutes is a day or year for us. Thus it would be possible for a single group of reptilians to control a group of humans throughout history.

Besides, as Ford Prefect so succintly noted in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "Time is an illusion, lunch time doubly so." Seriously, time is something we've lumbered ourselves with and will have to break free of before we can reach our full potential.

[merlincove]

The hybrid is exactlky as the name suggests: a combination of replitian and human DNA resulting in a breed of human. The more alien DNA, the greater control can be exerted. This is also where we get into the whole missing link debate.

One breed of human was created to be a labour force. Alien DNa was added to advanced species of simians, resulting in a species that could walk upright, use tools and have a limited capacity for individual thought. Over the millenia this has developed, due to changes in both diet and environment, into most of the people we see about us today. These are the hybrids.

Then we have the shape shifters. Their ancestors were those whom the reptiles mated with directly, giving them a much higher percentage of alien DNA. These are the families from which most of the world's ruling class have sprung. Their greater reptilian make up makes them better suited to long term possession. Possession is most often used only when there is a need for the reptilians to take direct control to ensure the correct outcome of a given situation. That being said, with the ruling families so steeped in blood and corruption, possession is not needed as they are perfectly happy to follow the agenda.

Where it gets confusing is when one uses possession and shape shifting interchangably. Almost anyone can be possessed; it depends more on one's exposure to the negative energy that these beings thrive upon than one's bloodline. This is how you get these people committing horrible acts such as school shooting, bombings, etc. They have exposed themelves to so much negative energy that they can be possessed for a limited time, during which the reptilian is in control.

The whole shape shifting things is a misnomer. What I believe is happening is that the people witnessing the shifting is, for one reason or another, capable of perceiving energy outside the five senses. in other words, they are seeing the entity's aura, which in the ruling families is so dominated by the reptilian heritge that it would appear to be a true reptile of the old world. This is how the queen (or her mother) could appear as a reptile of such size; the energy of the true personality would overwhelm the more limited sense of sight and appear every bit a real as the flesh and blood biosuit it inhabits. As snapdragon says, its more of a perception thing than a reality.

Why do we not see celebrities and the ruling class doing all these horrible things? Because no one outside of their own circle is ever allowed to get close enough. We may see them in public, where they present their human facades and pretend they dont own the world. in private, once they get back to their estates, they are free to indulge in a bit.

Hope this all made sense. If I've dibbled down my keyboard, let me know and I'll try to clean up my mess.

i recon you summed it up pretty well there gestaltdude

:D

[gestaltdude]

On a differnt note, I often wondered if the whole alien reptile thing is a misinterpretation. I see no reason a race of bipedal reptiles could not have lived and evolved for the hundreds of millions of since the beginning of the dinosaur age.

Reptiles are long lived and, if conditons are right (few predators, favourable environment etc), repoduce slowly. they couold have developed societies, cultures of their own.

then their numbers could have been reduced by the cataclysm reported to ahve occurred 26,000 years or so ago. From this point on, with their numbers so lessened and the lands destroyed, they may have opted to move to another dimension, monitoring and controlling the humans to restore the planet to their ideal state.

They may have even begun travelling throughout the solar system, using dimensional travel instea of crude travel devices such as we have, establishing bases of suitable planets.

Just a theory

[bard]

The whole shape shifting things is a misnomer. What I believe is happening is that the people witnessing the shifting is, for one reason or another, capable of perceiving energy outside the five senses. in other words, they are seeing the entity's aura, which in the ruling families is so dominated by the reptilian heritge that it would appear to be a true reptile of the old world. This is how the queen (or her mother) could appear as a reptile of such size; the energy of the true personality would overwhelm the more limited sense of sight and appear every bit a real as the flesh and blood biosuit it inhabits. As snapdragon says, its more of a perception thing than a reality.


You may have something here.

In relation to this I found the following interesting quote from Rudolf Steiner regarding our Atlantean ancestors:

"Naturally, these ancestors were quite differently constituted from the man of today. In certain respects they were clairvoyant, an echo of higher stages of clairvoyance. The Atlantean man would not have been able to see an outer object spatially limited. In the early days of the Atlantean evolution, seeing was quite different. When one person approached another, it was not the outline of his form that was perceived. Rather, there arose within him a coloured image that had nothing to do with the outer, but reflected an inner soul condition. He might, for instance, have seen the feeling of revenge in the other and fled from it. In an up-surging red picture, the feeling of revenge expressed itself. The outer seeing of objects was developed quite gradually. What man saw earlier was a kind of astral colour, and the transformation occurred in that man spread this colour over the objects, so to speak. Naturally, this other kind of perception was bound up with the fact that man at that time looked quite different from man today. In the later Atlantean period man, for example, had a receding physical forehead, while the etheric body stood out like a mighty globe. Then physical and etheric bodies drew together and when both joined together behind the forehead, between the eyes, man had come to an important moment in his evolution. Today, man's etheric head just fits the physical one. This is still not so with the horse, but as the human head changed, other members also transformed themselves. Gradually man's present bodily form emerged. Think vividly back into the end of the Atlantean epoch. Man still had a kind of clairvoyance; the air was saturated with water vapour. In this dense watery air, sun and stars could not be perceived; a rainbow could never have come into being; thick, heavy mist masses covered the earth. Hence it is that the myth speaks of Niflheim, of a mist-home. Then the waters that were so much spread out in the air, condensed. They covered Atlantis. The Flood signifies the mighty condensation of the mist masses into water. When the water separated itself from the air, our present kind of perception came about. Man was only then able to see himself when he saw other objects around him. "

source: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/OccSigns/19070913p01.html

[les_paul_robot]

On a differnt note, I often wondered if the whole alien reptile thing is a misinterpretation. I see no reason a race of bipedal reptiles could not have lived and evolved for the hundreds of millions of since the beginning of the dinosaur age.

Reptiles are long lived and, if conditons are right (few predators, favourable environment etc), repoduce slowly. they couold have developed societies, cultures of their own.

then their numbers could have been reduced by the cataclysm reported to ahve occurred 26,000 years or so ago. From this point on, with their numbers so lessened and the lands destroyed, they may have opted to move to another dimension, monitoring and controlling the humans to restore the planet to their ideal state.

They may have even begun travelling throughout the solar system, using dimensional travel instea of crude travel devices such as we have, establishing bases of suitable planets.

Just a theoryThe reptilians from the Orion star system are the oldest 'race' in the galaxy. They are the true owners of earth, but may lose it soon, we'll see.

[darketernal]

On a differnt note, I often wondered if the whole alien reptile thing is a misinterpretation. I see no reason a race of bipedal reptiles could not have lived and evolved for the hundreds of millions of since the beginning of the dinosaur age.

Reptiles are long lived and, if conditons are right (few predators, favourable environment etc), repoduce slowly. they couold have developed societies, cultures of their own.

then their numbers could have been reduced by the cataclysm reported to ahve occurred 26,000 years or so ago. From this point on, with their numbers so lessened and the lands destroyed, they may have opted to move to another dimension, monitoring and controlling the humans to restore the planet to their ideal state.

They may have even begun travelling throughout the solar system, using dimensional travel instea of crude travel devices such as we have, establishing bases of suitable planets.

Just a theory

I've spoken of this one before. The non-draco reptilians present here are indiginous. This is their planet. Humans (carriers of ET DNA as humans are a hybrid species) are more alien than they are.

[gestaltdude]

I've spoken of this one before. The non-draco reptilians present here are indiginous. This is their planet. Humans (carriers of ET DNA as humans are a hybrid species) are more alien than they are.

Sorry boss. I've only been coming here for a couple of months.:D

[amethyst]

There's no physical proof of reptilian shapeshifters...The evidence in symbolism is extremely weak, most of it is symbolising the Kundalini energies and the interpretations of the annunaki are gonig to be very difficult to present as evidence because not one of us here speaks sumarian...

You will never sway a logical thinker into believing in shapeshifting reptilians, the best you could possibly do is to go into the "You can't prove a negative" philosophy to which their persons answer usually is "And you can't disprove snails created the sun but there's no evidence for it."

That said, I've seen shapeshifting reptilians in my dreams. In one of them I was approaching a desert Island where I could feel a presence, then suddenly I realised what it was and saw a very close up view of a womans beautiful eyes, then the letters flashed before my vision, A then N and then N, U, N, A, K, I and in between seeing those letters, the beautiful womens eyes and cheek bones shifted slightly until at the end I was looking right at a Reptilians slit eyes and a half/human reptilian cheeks, nose (it was so close up that I didn't see the full face).

Could it be a figment of an overactive imagination? Could there be some truth to it? There's no way to prove it, you've just got to file it away as it is and leave some stuff for the X-files folder to be re-looked at when more evidence is presented.

Wow, I think that is a significant dream about how powerful they are in their deluding abilites (when they shapeshift- which they can, because they are spiritual beings: aka: beyond human perimeters)

[jamesc]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.



That is my take on it , that these entities be they reptilian or not could control a person through the taking over of their astral bodies when it pleases them.In so far that the astral influences thoughts ect , its not that hard to imagine the possibility of malevolent entities from manipulating, controlling through invading a persons astral body.

[amethyst]

From the first time I read the Biggest Secret - I thought Icke's reptilian theory was dynamite. No I don't go in for the Queen Mother is a 9 foot lizard who shoves knives up little boys butts garbage, however if you think of Reptilians in terms of DEMONS it works very well. Reptilians are demons. Theyh exist in another dimension and try to influence our thoughts and actions and even possess some weak-minded people (`the devil made me do it'). The ancients always knew about the existence and the threat of demons.


Demons are known to shapeshift, transforming themselves from one "state" to another....reptilians (the spiritual entities "behind" the elite....the "controling factor in other words) can shapeshift too....so there's not much difference between the two.

Probably, just different "labels" for the same thing.

[amethyst]

True,but cant get my head around things like Queen mother=9 foot tale canabalistic lizard,however i dont know she wasn,t.

In her human "outer shell" she isn't a 9 ft. lizard....but when she allowed her frequencies to be manipulated ie: take over by the reptilian spirits, then she is transformed into one..(when she shapeshifts at certain rituals)..plus, her genetic background made her more susceptible to being taken over....aka: the genetic bloodlines, which have more nephilim dna in them. The nephilim being the annunaki,fallen angels dna

[amethyst]

do most big cities have reptilians in them? How common are they? Would the UK have a lot?

Yes. The big cities who have specific ley lines and energy are very important to them. So they would be there.They founded the cites....or rather, their ancestors did.

[darketernal]

Sorry boss. I've only been coming here for a couple of months.:D

Tis no problem, I think anything I've said on this matter has been long buried in non-stickie threads. However you are essentially right, based on my own understanding of the issue in regards to the primary ones here.

[ap12345]

Tis no problem, I think anything I've said on this matter has been long buried in non-stickie threads. However you are essentially right, based on my own understanding of the issue in regards to the primary ones here.

Could you flesh this out? I see you regularily comment on posts in regards to amazing knowledge you seem to possess but you often seem unwilling to go into much detail. Is this as a result of not wanting to repeat yourself, or the fear of the repercussions for you if you divulge this knowledge?

Please could you explain how humans are more alien than reptilians? and how we have alien DNA which they do not?

[hannah50]

Interesting turns in this thread.

Like another poster mentioned, when I close my eyes at night sometimes get vivid images (in sepia like tones) of faces and objects - highly detailed. All like a great collage of some sort. Some of the images are grotesque and some are sublime and beautiful and they intermingle. Some of the images will come closer or enlarge, then fade into the background and another will enlarge and repeat. I watch them intensly some nights and have never really wondered about their origin, only noting that it's rather fantastic. I've never studied anything about the pineal gland - so this is news to me.

And while I've never seen a shape-shift, I have seen a super-imposed image over a co-workers face. It was transparent and was the head of a goat. It lasted about 5 seconds then went away, but it was clear as a bell. At that moment I had no idea what to make of it and let it go, but I was later to learn through quite a 'series of unfortunate events' that the people that I worked with were in a cult that was associated with a pedophile ring. The only way I found this out was after sever harassment and then contacting a parent of one of the abused children and meeting with her and a private detective the parents had employed. They helped me piece together what I'd experienced at the work place. Quite the display of 'street theater' (also called 'gang stalking') and intimidation.

That's my contribuiton.

[darketernal]

Could you flesh this out? I see you regularily comment on posts in regards to amazing knowledge you seem to possess but you often seem unwilling to go into much detail. Is this as a result of not wanting to repeat yourself, or the fear of the repercussions for you if you divulge this knowledge?

Please could you explain how humans are more alien than reptilians? and how we have alien DNA which they do not?

It is the lack of desire to repeat myself on the subjects. I'm not giving lectures like David is on it or gleening any benefits by repeating the same information over and over. It is also laziness on my own part.

[gestaltdude]

Ok boss, how about this idea. (Just trying to stimulate lively debate).

If we're talking about a race hundred of milions of years old, maybe the Orion reptilians did originate here, but for reasons of their own have hidden where they really came from (bit like Obama, :D). Or maybe their own history has been lost of the eons and they genuinely believe they originated from that area of space.

Come to think of it, I seem to remember an episode of Star Trek Voyager that covered pretty much this scenario. Damn I was hoping these were original ideas.

One other thought is that we only have their word about their origins and oldest status, don't we? Or has there been confirmation at some point?

[ekim]

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian.

Ever seen Fear and loathing in Las Vegas? The part where he see's all the reptiles is based on a guy(can't remember his name) who used to do long acid trips, and he notived that after a few days he would see reptiles either as the person or beside a person. He even noticed it was the same people every time he saw this.

If we percieved this world as it really is all the belief based on physical, logical evidence would be invalid.

[hannah50]

Hunter Thompson. :)

[jonny78]

I think its important to keep in mind that both Cathy O'Brian and Arizona Wilder were victims of extreme mind-control complete with physical and mental abuse.....i.e. trauma (while existing with compartmentalised personalities), and NOW that their programming has broken down, while the essence of their re-telling of events may well be true, there is strong possibility that at least some of their recollections are slightly skewed versions of what actually happened.

True. I'm willing to give Cathy O'Brian the benefit of the doubt over Arizona Wilder because, despite her experiences, she's careful not to jump to conclusions because of the mind trauma she experienced. I think she's changed her tune since then, but I trust it took her some work getting there. On the other hand, Arizona Wilder just doesn't sit well with me. She just lays the entire story out and then complains when people don't believe her. And the complaining she did seemed almost manipulative...as if trying to elicit sympathy if you catch my drift. I could be wrong, but that's one of the reasons why I do not trust Ms. Wilder or her story.

[lessgov2007]

I can help with the reptilian debate.

Have you ever seen a reptilian shapeshifter before?
I have never seen any such shapeshifting reptilian other than my own. I think that's an entirely private matter so we wont get into that. :D

Do you believe in Icke's reptilian theory?
I don't believe in Icke's reptilian theory. Until I see it with my own two eyes and experience things for myself I am not going to believe it.

Do I think it could be possible?
Yes.

Do I have a problem with Icke discussing his reptilian theory?
No, Icke does not pick my pocket, poison my food or water, nor bring any bodily injury to me, my family, my friends, or anyone else I'm aware of.

Do you normally interview yourself?
No, but I do talk to myself and God all the time. Sometimes I even talk to my shapeshifting reptilian too.

[merlincove]

i like your style man :D

[knightbk]

There is no evidence whatsoever about Shape Shifters and hearsay isn't evidence.

This is a case of losers with nothing better to do with their time, dreaming up bullshit to get attention.

I pity the fools who believe in this, galactic space ships behind the moon, 2012 ending the world, bla bla bla. Get a life.

[mauviene]

There is no evidence whatsoever about Shape Shifters and hearsay isn't evidence.

This is a case of losers with nothing better to do with their time, dreaming up bullshit to get attention.

I pity the fools who believe in this, galactic space ships behind the moon, 2012 ending the world, bla bla bla. Get a life.

No..I'd classify this knowledge as esoteric actually..which just means you can't know..unless you've had the experience concerning such.

[gestaltdude]

There is no evidence whatsoever about Shape Shifters and hearsay isn't evidence.

This is a case of losers with nothing better to do with their time, dreaming up bullshit to get attention.

I pity the fools who believe in this, galactic space ships behind the moon, 2012 ending the world, bla bla bla. Get a life.

Aren't we an angry little moonchild?:D

Seriously though I have to ask. If people take some comfort from the ideas expressed on this thread and in the forum, what harm does it do you that you feel the need to lash out so? Have we injured you in some way?

Please respond, I'd really like to know, for preference without the flaming rhetoric of your previous post. Calm, reasoned discussion is the theme we're looking for here, not abusive attacks.

[dhama_initiative]

What if people aren't taking comfort from it, what if its making them more fearful and sad. If its scaring people, and its not true, it has no value than causing negativity.

[gestaltdude]

What if people aren't taking comfort from it, what if its making them more fearful and sad. If its scaring people, and its not true, it has no value than causing negativity.

Fair enough. My thinking on the subject is more along the lines of information in and of itself is harmless and nuetral. Like atomic weapos theory, it is all down to the use people puit it to.

To the best of my knowledge (and I'm open to correction here), Icke has never forced this down anyone' throat. Yes, he has written books, given interviews and lectures, but people read them and listen to them because they want to, not because they are being forced to.

If someone is in fear because of these theories, that must mean that they have thought them valid enough to contain an element of truth. If they didn't they would have dismissed it and forgotten about it, as people do not dwell on that they consider impossible, improbable or just plain stupid.

From this point I can only speak from personal experience. For example, I have always believed in aliens, various aspects of the supernatural, and other unexplained phenomenon that would see me ridiculed for expressing my beliefs. When I first read Icke's books, I wouldn't get further than the first couple of chapters, because at first i thought it was all a bunch of hooey. Then over time I would think about it, concede that there may be some validity to the information, try to validate the information presented, then decided to read on to find out what hppens next.

If this is the truth (or one aspect of it), then of course people will initially feel afraid, as they (like me?) will feel as if all the control they felt they had over their lives was yanked out from under their feet. Eventually they will realize that they till have some control and learn to recognise where they don't, maybe even learn to accept that lack of control.

To give you some background, the time I really started getting into this was the worst time of my life. I'd lost my job, my marriage ended, and I got some really bad medical news. I'm not saying I began blaming the lizards for everything that had happened. Rather it was considering the more esoteric, spiritulistic side of things that helped.

I don't rage against the lizards because they are only doing what has to be done, just as we are. If one is in fear, then it may well be because it is something you need to experience. many of us live such comfortable lives now that we forget that is not the norm, that there are extremes that we should do our utmost to experience. I dont remember much of my bungey jump because I actually blacked out as I dove, but facing the fear (I am a terrible acrophobe) was totally worth it.

And if all this turns out to be bogus? Well, the feeling of embarassment and perhaps a little shame may take some getting used to. But they are still emotional experiences worth feeling, as they remind you to keep your feet on the ground. Personally I will consider the experience worthwhile, as I have a new perspective on life that gives me comfort and makes a heck of a lot more sense than anything the estblsihed religions have said. (not that there's anything wrong with that.)

in a nutshell, I see this as more a lifestyle choice. But please also bear in mind that all the great discoveries of our time scared people when they found out. This may be true or it may not. Only time will tell, and until then we should focus on what makes us happy, though not at the expense of others.

[icarus]

I've just started reading my first Dike book, The Biggest Secret.

The elite do seem to have a certain inhumanity to them, so who knows?

Maybe they aren't.

[amethyst]

I can help with the reptilian debate.

Have you ever seen a reptilian shapeshifter before?
I have never seen any such shapeshifting reptilian other than my own. I think that's an entirely private matter so we wont get into that. :D

Do you believe in Icke's reptilian theory?
I don't believe in Icke's reptilian theory. Until I see it with my own two eyes and experience things for myself I am not going to believe it.

Do I think it could be possible?
Yes.

Do I have a problem with Icke discussing his reptilian theory?
No, Icke does not pick my pocket, poison my food or water, nor bring any bodily injury to me, my family, my friends, or anyone else I'm aware of.

Do you normally interview yourself?
No, but I do talk to myself and God all the time. Sometimes I even talk to my shapeshifting reptilian too.

LOL :p

[authority]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.


I agree with your observations on change in frequency range that can make "reptilians" (or other entities) appear as a shapeshifting of a person.

Tesla said: “If you want to understand the secrets of nature, look to vibration and frequency.”
and, everything is vibration and frequency.

Now, if you think reptilian = fallen angel or demon that is "attached" or "possessing" a host, then it begins to make sense as what Icke is saying.
IMO, he has been mistaken in thinking that shapeshifting was more of a physical manifestation, instead of metaphysical, but the idea is basically correct.

Actually, what Icke is saying is similar what religious people are saying about possession, even though Icke wants to stay away from the religion with 10 foot pole.
;)
To expound on subject;
I do believe that "alien abductions" are actually black projects operations by the secret world government and that those abductees are actually abducted and experimented by the same group but their memory is temporarily erased and that is why they experience "missing time".

and, it sure seems that women that were abducted were impregnated in attempt to create a super-powerful being that would have out of this world powers in our physical realm (the antichrist)
in other words, they are trying to create (or they may already have created) a human being that would become a vehicle for a super powerful demonic spirit that they want to rule the world.

When a subject does recollect what happened to him/her he or she remembers "aliens".
And, this alien card can later be flipped to either "good aliens -- our saviors" or "bad aliens" our enemy. It is no wonder that abductees experiences are almost the same and almost always very negative. I mean, in our universe we just got some bad aliens or what?


"bad alien" theory just does not add up.
why would aliens that can conquer stars abduct and torture people, mutilate cattle and go against our free will if they were smart enough to build the vehicles that can travel stars?

I can see that everything is ramping up towards "release of alien information"
which i think will be nothing more than deception to accept them as our makers.

[erthiz]

IMO, he has been mistaken in thinking that shapeshifting was more of a physical manifestation, instead of metaphysical, but the idea is basically correct.
-----------
To expound on subject;
I do believe that "alien abductions" are actually black projects operations by the secret world government and that those abductees are actually abducted and experimented by the same group but their memory is temporarily erased and that is why they experience "missing time".
-----------
I mean, in our universe we just got some bad aliens or what?


I saw an interview with Icke and he talks about how people who see others shapeshift actually see their true form on another frequency. He also said he doesnt think people physically shapeshift because this is impossible :)

IMO, there are aliens, theres so much evidence now im surprised when people say they dont believe in aliens. But to touch on what you said, there are good and bad aliens.

Have you watched any Alex Collier? I think hes brilliant. He speaks of the Andromedans, who are good, and the reptilians who are obviously bad. Theres also the greys who are the ones who do all the abducting and things. He also speaks about the Plaedians.

[authority]

I saw an interview with Icke and he talks about how people who see others shapeshift actually see their true form on another frequency. He also said he doesnt think people physically shapeshift because this is impossible :)

IMO, there are aliens, theres so much evidence now im surprised when people say they dont believe in aliens. But to touch on what you said, there are good and bad aliens.

Have you watched any Alex Collier? I think hes brilliant. He speaks of the Andromedans, who are good, and the reptilians who are obviously bad. Theres also the greys who are the ones who do all the abducting and things. He also speaks about the Plaedians.

yes, I have watched Collier, good video, many good points.
i am not saying that there are no bad aliens, because if there is good there must be evil and vice versa.
but, aliens are 90% of time portrayed in MSM as bad, evil, blood sucking.
and, me thinks there is an agenda behind it.


and, are those bad "aliens" maybe more of demonic spirit type than "alien" type?

[neutrino]

You know what. I'm suddenly reminded of a Stargate episode called 'foothold'. These aliens manage to infiltrate Earth by using devices that mask their true appearance and give them the appearance of Humans from another SG team.

Halfway into the episode they are on a plane speaking to a Human and they suddenly for a brief second show their true appearance without realising it. It turns out that a specific sound frequency interferes with the devices and the fake Human effect is mooted.

They find out the frequency I believe and use it to detect the aliens.

[erthiz]

yes, I have watched Collier, good video, many good points.
i am not saying that there are no bad aliens, because if there is good there must be evil and vice versa.
but, aliens are 90% of time portrayed in MSM as bad, evil, blood sucking.
and, me thinks there is an agenda behind it.


and, are those bad "aliens" maybe more of demonic spirit type than "alien" type?


Yeah i think the MSM just want to make aliens sound evil bad etc, so if aliens ever did present themselves to the people, the masses would automatically assume their evil and dislike them, be it bad aliens or good.

[erthiz]

You know what. I'm suddenly reminded of a Stargate episode called 'foothold'. These aliens manage to infiltrate Earth by using devices that mask their true appearance and give them the appearance of Humans from another SG team.

Halfway into the episode they are on a plane speaking to a Human and they suddenly for a brief second show their true appearance without realising it. It turns out that a specific sound frequency interferes with the devices and the fake Human effect is mooted.

They find out the frequency I believe and use it to detect the aliens.


Really? thats intresting. Maybe its the same for the reptiles?

[niftymage]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/33120/Underground_Reptilian_City_discovered_in_Egypt/

thought id throw that into the mix

[neutrino]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/33120/Underground_Reptilian_City_discovered_in_Egypt/

thought id throw that into the mix

So these people with tails that they could see walking about didn't wonder why Humans had just dug their way into their city? they just carried on as normal? they didn't hear the almighty crash of rock as they dug through or the loud noise of machinery?
What did the Egyptians do, plug up the hole with a cork?

[snakesnladders]

good luck finding something logical. your best bet is looking for evidence of dragons etc in history. or possibly a historical document re: a shift. I thought there might have been one witnessed of a roman emperor who was seen shifting, donno where i read that.

i'll give you that it sounds frigging weird.

but i warn you not to dismiss it lightly; thats my suggestion, based on personal experience.

and dont forget - it is so ridiculous - who would believe you? do you see the problem? people may even be tempted to disbelieve themselves if they really do have insider knowledge.

but what cracks me up on this forum is all the idiots looking at people with normal pupils and imagining they are seeing vertical pupils. you'll know when you see them people. they stay vertical for a while. its easy to see, you dont have to squint. altho its good that you're looking. i think i have seen a couple on youtube that look to me like they might be candidates. But not many.

[mind1universe]

Exactly!

Its not a shapeshift of the physical body, but basically you see their true self.

Their physical bodies are just fronts for our frequency range, when people see reptilians, its because the frequency ranges cross for a split second, thus, making the person believe they shapeshifted, when in fact they just saw their true form.

The reptilians operate on a denser frequency range, this is why we cant see their reptilian form.

They don't exist on a denser form. Stop talking nonsense where you do not understand what your saying. This really pisses me off. It makes you look silly.


They exist in 4th density forum. We are the densest fom as we are in 3D density. Reptilians exist in 3D and 4D density. If your not sure about what your talking about don't mis inform others.

Love and light
Mind1

[erthiz]

If your not sure about what your talking about don't mis inform others.




haha whatever son

[tazika]

Icke´s most controversial theory - it is NOT THEORY, it is a fact. They do exist.
As Snake wisely said: "and dont forget - it is so ridiculous - who would believe you? do you see the problem? people may even be tempted to disbelieve themselves if they really do have insider knowledge."

[neutral]

There is some info about this guy,

Parks' experiences began at the age of 14, in 1981, with a series of "flashes" that would occur at any hour of the day, and completely beyond his control. These eventually evolved into "visions" that took place from once to three times each day.

The visions seemed somehow to be related to or triggered by the ambient light at the time of their occurrence. The light in the visions had the same "spectrum" as the surrounding light. They came as "jets of light" from above, penetrating the top of his head, at the level of the "seventh principal chakra." They would instantly disconnect him from his surroundings and move him into complete scenes, including the aspect of sound.

He would find himself "inside" a certain being, and usually would find the same set of "personages" around him.

These living experiences would take from two to up to ten minutes. Yet if there were people around Parks at the time the visions occurred, they did not seem to notice that anything special had happened, which leads Parks to believe that he would have been gone for only a few seconds at most, in their time.

Parks struggled to comprehend the source of these visions, and their meaning. It was not until the end of the 90s and much research that he came to understand that they were related to the Sumerian civilization and to a language from which the Sumerian language emerged.

...It took some time to put order into all this history -- the different personages and their characters, their numerous names, the different races, the planets, the dimensions -- all that had not been clear at the beginning, especially since I was receiving the information via these disordered "flashes".

Order and comprehension came naturally over the course of years, without doubt due to the growing amount of information that I was able to accumulate.

And there was this sensation of "deja vu", of knowing or recognizing the personalities of the players.

It is a world apart, truly separate from ours, but so alive and, in spite of all, so close to us in many ways...

I discovered by chance the Sumerian literature very late, toward the end of 1999 and the beginning of 2000. Yes, that was a shock and above all a supreme motivation for me to write the Chronicles.

Certain places described in the Mesopotamian documents, and most of the the principal personages, are relatively in accord with what I received, but the tablets lack many details and numerous elements... and in fact not all is in accord with my "visions". The warp and woof of the story that I relate are found however on some clay tablets; this is why I have no doubt this "capacity" to interpret the symbolism of the Mesopotamian documents.


Did you heard about him ?

Here's more of him :)

http://www.zeitlin.net/EndEnchantment/images/Gen31E.jpg

[kevin82]

David Icke is one of many people who have come forward about the reptilians.

There's also Stewart Swerdlow who worked for the Montauk Project, John Rhodes, Phil Schneider former Government Geologist, James Casbolt former MI6, Thomas Edwin Costello former employee at Dulce Military base, James Bartley former high ranking Naval Intelligence and plenty more. So why the David Icke ridicule when there are lots more people who have been saying this way before David Icke has?

And this is not including lots of the worlds ancient texts which also talk about reptilians. This goes way beyond Cathy O'Brian. David has done his research from over 40 countries around the world. He has spoken to people within Government and people who have been involved with the reptilians. I suggest people actually read all of David Ickes books first where he presents his research.

[mind1universe]

There is some info about this guy,

Parks' experiences began at the age of 14, in 1981, with a series of "flashes" that would occur at any hour of the day, and completely beyond his control. These eventually evolved into "visions" that took place from once to three times each day.

The visions seemed somehow to be related to or triggered by the ambient light at the time of their occurrence. The light in the visions had the same "spectrum" as the surrounding light. They came as "jets of light" from above, penetrating the top of his head, at the level of the "seventh principal chakra." They would instantly disconnect him from his surroundings and move him into complete scenes, including the aspect of sound.

He would find himself "inside" a certain being, and usually would find the same set of "personages" around him.

These living experiences would take from two to up to ten minutes. Yet if there were people around Parks at the time the visions occurred, they did not seem to notice that anything special had happened, which leads Parks to believe that he would have been gone for only a few seconds at most, in their time.

Parks struggled to comprehend the source of these visions, and their meaning. It was not until the end of the 90s and much research that he came to understand that they were related to the Sumerian civilization and to a language from which the Sumerian language emerged.

...It took some time to put order into all this history -- the different personages and their characters, their numerous names, the different races, the planets, the dimensions -- all that had not been clear at the beginning, especially since I was receiving the information via these disordered "flashes".

Order and comprehension came naturally over the course of years, without doubt due to the growing amount of information that I was able to accumulate.

And there was this sensation of "deja vu", of knowing or recognizing the personalities of the players.

It is a world apart, truly separate from ours, but so alive and, in spite of all, so close to us in many ways...

I discovered by chance the Sumerian literature very late, toward the end of 1999 and the beginning of 2000. Yes, that was a shock and above all a supreme motivation for me to write the Chronicles.

Certain places described in the Mesopotamian documents, and most of the the principal personages, are relatively in accord with what I received, but the tablets lack many details and numerous elements... and in fact not all is in accord with my "visions". The warp and woof of the story that I relate are found however on some clay tablets; this is why I have no doubt this "capacity" to interpret the symbolism of the Mesopotamian documents.


Did you heard about him ?

Here's more of him :)

http://www.zeitlin.net/EndEnchantment/images/Gen31E.jpg



Since there is so many conflicting names and stories anout whos who. Many sources say that Enki was satan, and Enlil was the bibical god of pre genisis. The bibical god here then states it was Osiris. What about Zues where is the greek mythology for him in this map??

To be honest this is very confusing..

[camreeno]

Go read his book "Children of the Maritx" which extolls the whole topic. He wrote it for a reason.

[pound]

From all the reading that Ive done on the "reptilian" theory, Ive hardly ever heard or read anyone make any correlations between the Navajo Skinwalkers and these Reptilian entities.
Both are capable of shape-shifting, and both seem to be inherently evil!
And how about the so called "Moth man"? The descriptions that people have given of this creature sound very, VERY similar to that of a Royal winged Draco.

[darketernal]

From all the reading that Ive done on the "reptilian" theory, Ive hardly ever heard or read anyone make any correlations between the Navajo Skinwalkers and these Reptilian entities.
Both are capable of shape-shifting, and both seem to be inherently evil!
And how about the so called "Moth man"? The descriptions that people have given of this creature sound very, VERY similar to that of a Royal winged Draco.

I wrote a short story 2 years ago linking the skinwalkers (I used to live in northern New Mexico), but never published it. Yes I think there is a link.

[size_of_light]

I wrote a short story 2 years ago linking the skinwalkers (I used to live in northern New Mexico), but never published it. Yes I think there is a link.

What do you think the link might be, DE?

[sturmgeist]

The first and most obvious one... According to it these hybrid beings have been mating with and eating humans for centuries. Their numbers would have multiplied with each generation making the current amount of shapeshifting reptiles walking on this earth today somewhat unbelievable.



I think I can explain this. A large group hybrids are not around due to heavy inbreeding throughout the centuries. The bloodlines as David Icke mentions have always sought members who share a common (royal) ancestory.
For this reason only a small group is connected to these bloodlines.
This also explains why these hybrids havent turned almost completely human after all this time.

Good post OP. I hope more people follow your example and ease it with all the crap topics. This subject gets enough scrutiny without people talking about how they have a reptilian living in their basement :D

[sturmgeist]

First of all, celebrities, can you imagine with the tabloid mania that scrutinizes every moves and actions of celebrities would never have caught some alarming photos of blood drinking and the consumption of human flesh? or a shapeshifting face, something? they can catch every show of cleavage but not that?

And politicans, how many reptilians are supposedly working in the white house? Or just working in the white house where the president, presumably reptilian is living? Would noone notice?

With all the work that goes into campaigning for president, giving interviews, holding speeches and attending ceremonies. Where do they fit in all the blood drinking?



I think when it comes to 'shapeshifting' there is more to it. I believe others have explained that already.

However, you also ask the question "Where do they fit in all the blooddrinking?" Nobody can be sure, but there are a lot of places this might happen. I am sure most people on this forum are familiar with Bohemian Grove or The Mother of Darkness Castle in Belgium. Anything could happen there without the world knowing.

And do not forget how most people were not even aware of more "innocent" things like the bilderberg group meetings.

I think there are two reasons for this not being in the public domain.
One: Certain places are off-limits and heavily guarded.
Two: At the end of the day the media is controlled

I have heard David Icke say the following time after time: If we had critical thinking journalists, most of what is going on today would not be possible!

[itsallinus]

I think when it comes to 'shapeshifting' there is more to it. I believe others have explained that already.

However, you also ask the question "Where do they fit in all the blooddrinking?" Nobody can be sure, but there are a lot of places this might happen. I am sure most people on this forum are familiar with Bohemian Grove or The Mother of Darkness Castle in Belgium. Anything could happen there without the world knowing.

And do not forget how most people were not even aware of more "innocent" things like the bilderberg group meetings.

I think there are two reasons for this not being in the public domain.
One: Certain places are off-limits and heavily guarded.
Two: At the end of the day the media is controlled

I have heard David Icke say the following time after time: If we had critical thinking journalists, most of what is going on today would not be possible!

Just to add to that, pigs are used as substitutes for humans. No media storm will rise because some celeb had a bacon sandwich and a drink which could easily look like tomato juice.

[size_of_light]

I think I can explain this. A large group hybrids are not around due to heavy inbreeding throughout the centuries. The bloodlines as David Icke mentions have always sought members who share a common (royal) ancestory.
For this reason only a small group is connected to these bloodlines.
This also explains why these hybrids havent turned almost completely human after all this time.

Good post OP. I hope more people follow your example and ease it with all the crap topics. This subject gets enough scrutiny without people talking about how they have a reptilian living in their basement :D

I think when it comes to 'shapeshifting' there is more to it. I believe others have explained that already.

However, you also ask the question "Where do they fit in all the blooddrinking?" Nobody can be sure, but there are a lot of places this might happen. I am sure most people on this forum are familiar with Bohemian Grove or The Mother of Darkness Castle in Belgium. Anything could happen there without the world knowing.

And do not forget how most people were not even aware of more "innocent" things like the bilderberg group meetings.

I think there are two reasons for this not being in the public domain.
One: Certain places are off-limits and heavily guarded.
Two: At the end of the day the media is controlled

I have heard David Icke say the following time after time: If we had critical thinking journalists, most of what is going on today would not be possible!

I agree.

Thank you.

[darketernal]

What do you think the link might be, DE?

I think the skinwalkers of Navajo lore are their shapeshifting reptilians.

[itsallinus]

I think the skinwalkers of Navajo lore are their shapeshifting reptilians.

I did some searching on the skinwalkers and they seem to refer more to werewolves than reptilians however it did lead me to this:

LEAPING LIZARD MAN! The Lizard Man is a cryptozoological creature said to inhabit swampland in and around Lee County, South Carolina. Humanlike in form, the Lizard Man is said to have many reptilian or dinosaur-like qualities, including green, scaly skin and three-toed feet and hands. According to witnesses, each of its digits has a circular pad that allows it to cling to trees and walls, much like a gecko. Standing an intimidating 7 feet in height, Lizard Man is said to be extremely fast and incredibly powerful, capable of ripping open cars with its bare hands. Most firsthand accounts of this creature also describe its glowing red eyes.

SIGHTINGS AT SCAPE ORE SWAMP: The Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp was first reported on June 29, 1988, by a 16-year-old named Christopher Davis, who claims he was chased by the creature after stopping to change a flat tire. Several reports followed during the summer of 1988, many of them mentioning unusual scratches or bite marks on cars parked near the swamp. The local sheriff's department chalked the sightings up to a lone bear, but were later puzzled when biologists were unable to classify a plaster cast of a 3-toed, 14-inch footprint taken from the area.

ANCIENT REPTILIAN HUMANOIDS: While the "Lizard Man" is a relatively recent cryptozoological phenomenon in the Americas, tales of reptilian beings can be traced back several millennia in other areas of the world. Cecrops, the first mythological king of Athens — the leading city of Ancient Greece — was described as a serpent from the waist down. In the Far East, an ancient line of emperors claimed to be directly descended from dragons, and it was thought that they could change form at will. Indian legend tells of underground reptilian beings that once inhabited a continent in the Indian Ocean that sank beneath the waves.

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/lost-tapes/lizard-man/

[darketernal]

I did some searching on the skinwalkers and they seem to refer more to werewolves than reptilians however it did lead me to this:

LEAPING LIZARD MAN! The Lizard Man is a cryptozoological creature said to inhabit swampland in and around Lee County, South Carolina. Humanlike in form, the Lizard Man is said to have many reptilian or dinosaur-like qualities, including green, scaly skin and three-toed feet and hands. According to witnesses, each of its digits has a circular pad that allows it to cling to trees and walls, much like a gecko. Standing an intimidating 7 feet in height, Lizard Man is said to be extremely fast and incredibly powerful, capable of ripping open cars with its bare hands. Most firsthand accounts of this creature also describe its glowing red eyes.

SIGHTINGS AT SCAPE ORE SWAMP: The Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp was first reported on June 29, 1988, by a 16-year-old named Christopher Davis, who claims he was chased by the creature after stopping to change a flat tire. Several reports followed during the summer of 1988, many of them mentioning unusual scratches or bite marks on cars parked near the swamp. The local sheriff's department chalked the sightings up to a lone bear, but were later puzzled when biologists were unable to classify a plaster cast of a 3-toed, 14-inch footprint taken from the area.

ANCIENT REPTILIAN HUMANOIDS: While the "Lizard Man" is a relatively recent cryptozoological phenomenon in the Americas, tales of reptilian beings can be traced back several millennia in other areas of the world. Cecrops, the first mythological king of Athens — the leading city of Ancient Greece — was described as a serpent from the waist down. In the Far East, an ancient line of emperors claimed to be directly descended from dragons, and it was thought that they could change form at will. Indian legend tells of underground reptilian beings that once inhabited a continent in the Indian Ocean that sank beneath the waves.

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/lost-tapes/lizard-man/

I am very aware of the wolf and coyote connection in the lore. Hince why the connection to reptilians takes a bit of a leap. It isn't something I can prove, but I also wonder how many of the witnesses over the years got a good look and lived to tell their story etc.

[itsallinus]

I am very aware of the wolf and coyote connection in the lore. Hince why the connection to reptilians takes a bit of a leap. It isn't something I can prove, but I also wonder how many of the witnesses over the years got a good look and lived to tell their story etc.

Yea sorry DE didn't mean to tread on ya toes! I guess in the dark and whilst in disbelief of what you might be seeing along with fear making you irrational one could be forgiven for making assumptions that you see a werewolf when infact it could be a reptilian. Common folklore has a knack of blurring accounts of something else not only in how its reported but also witnessed.

[pound]

Awesome guys, thanks for the info. Yeah...Their seems to be a few striking similarities between these two entities (skinwalkers and reptilians), heres a few that I can think of just off the top of the head:

1)Both have alleged abilities to shape-shift (skinwalkers are rumored to be able to shape shift into anything they want to shape shift into! Although they are usually seen as coyotes, dogs, wolfs etc..)

2)Both seem to have Telepathic abilities (Skinwalkers can supposedly mimic human voices as well)

3)Both are connected to Black magic/Black arts somehow, The Navajo Skinwalkers are believed to be human witches partaking in the so called "Witchery way".

4)Both are reportedly capable of posessing and taking over a human body.

5)Both have been reported to have "glowing" eyes.

...Just a few similarities that I came up with fairly quickly! Maybe were dealing with a different alien species here, or maybe it is the Terrestial reptilians frightening the hell out of us silly humans:confused:
As we know, that whole southwest area of the U.S. is probably littered with Underground bases, taking that into account the Reptilian/Skinwalker connection seems even more plausible!!

[azureangel]

Thanks for posting this Les Paul Robot, on page 4 of this thread. I found it highly interesting, tend to believe a lot of it and it ties things in together quite well with information I've already found in bits elsewhere. I admit I have not read The Biggest Secret, after reading 2 of DI's big books and going into deep depressions afterward I promised myself I would only read books like I Am Me, I Am Free and his one which will be coming out soon. How many times can I stand to read about torture and killing?? I have to ask: did anyone else read The Terra Papers? I did, except for the vocabulary and names parts in the beginning. It looks to be an old typwritten document and is not an easy read or a nice Youtube vid with pretty pictures and music, but I highly recommend it. Les Paul R, would you care to comment on the origin of this, if you know? Also of course I'd love to hear from Darketernal as to your views on this information. For several others on this thread, check it out, I think many of your questions will be answered. For what it's worth i usually avoid the "negative" stuff and I will say that this affected me deeply. I guess part of that was the way it was brought into the (near) present-time, and the out-in-front collaboration of powers, including the Mafia, to gain nothing more than money and more power for the handlers. Would really love to hear from anyone who has read this, Love, angel

[darketernal]

Azure, I'll try to take a look at the terra papers sometime. No, I've not read them.

[azureangel]

It's a bit of a marathon; I read it in 3 sittings. Love, angel

[mrindigo]

I remember Icke saying in a video that people don't actually shapeshift.

The people with Reptilian DNA and who are of a certain bloodline can be controlled by Reptilians by way of them connecting to the Human in question. The Humans themselves are not the Reptilians but can be manipulated by them. When this manipulation takes place the Reptilians are near the person in question.

Sometimes a persons vision could temporarily allow them to view in a different frequency range which allows them to for a split second see the Reptilian. The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.

This is what I've been thinking about the phenomena, as it makes the most sense to me. It's also pretty similar to the movie, They Live. I actually just made a thread where I touched on what you've brought up, lol.
Clearly, as it's been reasonably stated, it's not enough to go on as irrefutable proof. It is enough to give some pause and investigation though.


On a slightly different topic, the original poster's point on reptilian populations being higher than the human populaces over time makes sense. There's also the theories and claims of vast underground cities where the majority supposedly live. That could be the case and may explain why there aren't so many seen, but it also seems a bit convenient at the same time.

[itsallinus]

Thanks for posting this Les Paul Robot, on page 4 of this thread. I found it highly interesting, tend to believe a lot of it and it ties things in together quite well with information I've already found in bits elsewhere. I admit I have not read The Biggest Secret, after reading 2 of DI's big books and going into deep depressions afterward I promised myself I would only read books like I Am Me, I Am Free and his one which will be coming out soon. How many times can I stand to read about torture and killing?? I have to ask: did anyone else read The Terra Papers? I did, except for the vocabulary and names parts in the beginning. It looks to be an old typwritten document and is not an easy read or a nice Youtube vid with pretty pictures and music, but I highly recommend it. Les Paul R, would you care to comment on the origin of this, if you know? Also of course I'd love to hear from Darketernal as to your views on this information. For several others on this thread, check it out, I think many of your questions will be answered. For what it's worth i usually avoid the "negative" stuff and I will say that this affected me deeply. I guess part of that was the way it was brought into the (near) present-time, and the out-in-front collaboration of powers, including the Mafia, to gain nothing more than money and more power for the handlers. Would really love to hear from anyone who has read this, Love, angel

Hi Angel,I took your advice and have started reading, upto page 50 atm, must say, it does seem to fit in with much of what I already knew though some details like the names can be tiresome to read (:rolleyes:) and there are one or two things that seem a little too 'star wars' like and not based on physics so much (like the captured AR bouncing off saturn/neptune - can't remember which). Most of it does seem plausable so far but will finish it tonight and give you my thoughts though this does deserve its own thread I believe..much love phil

[azureangel]

Yes, I couldn't get through all the names either. I found it very interesting reading about the creation of humans, and the way that Enki added his own DNA secretly and also a "thread" was given by the (bird)? people which gave the humans passion. I've been thinking in terms of the two different types of humans created, and the Adamus seems to be what DI describes as the "hybrids", they serve mostly unquestioningly as they were made that way. The rest of us are more wild cards in our behavior. Interesting the concept of WWII as an attempt to regain control of the Earth by the Sirians. What a bunch of dummies, choosing a drug addict! But good for us! I also reflected quite a lot on the deal made with the greys by Eisenhower and how there was a human scientist along for the experiments with humans. I've read elsewhere that the reppies broke their agreement along the way. Looking forward to your thoughts...love, Angel

[phfaty]

When there are disasters like earthquakes or terrorist attacks like 911 the Red Cross always calls for massive blood drives. Could this be one method to collect human blood for these Reptilian beings? Where does the donated blood go?

If David Icke's theories are correct, then why is he still walking and talking? We need some serious discussions on this subject to help understand and figure out if these beings actually exist amongst us.

[rowan22]

A natural human response to instances of gross and unimaginable inhumanity is to search for some kind of esoteric explanation. It's hard for the mainstream to imagine a circumstance where a "normal" person would commit an act such barbarism. The truth is imo, that it is precisely because we are human that we commit such acts. No recourse to alien or reptilian D.N.A is necessary. Snakes go to great lengths to protect their eggs. It is human beings who blithely watch Ethiopian starvation victims die on C.N.N and do nothing.

Perhaps it is a convenient scapegoat to ascribe "natural" acts of barbarism to other kinds of creature when it is we, who display the real savagery?

Maybe we look in the mirror and don’t like what we see? Maybe this is the root of all the perpetual violence and "evil" in the world, that (we) seek convenient scapegoats for things which are accessible to our own power to change them.

[orage]

Residue of Reptile DNA perhaps? What if these visions stem from a brain area with a different set of filters, from the reptilian brain? We do know that we only "see" what we "know" to be true; million bits of information and impressions get discarded every second. Without cognizant filters, our self would be overwhelmed, or "possessed". Altered states allow for altered perceptions.

http://www.crystalinks.com/reptilianbrain.html

[rowan22]

Residue of Reptile DNA perhaps? What if these visions stem from a brain area with a different set of filters, from the reptilian brain? We do know that we only "see" what we "know" to be true; million bits of information and impressions get discarded every second. Without cognizant filters, our self would be overwhelmed, or "possessed". Altered states allow for altered perceptions.

http://www.crystalinks.com/reptilianbrain.html

Welcome orage, and can I say Intelligent point imo my friend. Yes and very true. The Psychology we know about validates this perception. Our natural defensive mental apparatus means that this is the case. The truth very often is replaced by some more acceptable version of events, the hard part is being strict in our acceptance of "facts" and our commitment to the actual rather than the expedient isn’t it?

[orage]

As to historical, mythical depiction of reptiles, how about this fellow?

http://www.crystalinks.com/quetzacoatyl.gif

Quetzalcoatl
"Quetzalcoatl is a Mesoamerican deity whose name comes from the Nahuatl language and has the meaning of "feather-serpent".

The worship of a feathered serpent deity is first documented in Teotihuacan in the Late Preclassic through the Early Classic period (400 BCE 600CE) of Mesoamerican chronology - "Teotihuacan arose as a new religious center in the Mexican Highland, around the time of Christ..." -- whereafter it appears to have spread throughout Mesoamerica by the Late Classic (600 - 900 CE) (Ringle et al.).

In the Postclassic period (900 1519 CE) the worship of the feathered serpent deity was centered in the central Mexican religious center of Cholula. It is in this period that the deity is known to have been named "Quetzalcoatl" by his Nahua followers.

In the Maya area he was known as Kukulcan or Ququmatz, names that also translate as "feathered serpent" in different Mayan languages."

"Quetzalcoatl is sometimes depicted as a white man (light, the shining ones) looking nothing like the Mesoamerican people who worshipped him. Most often he is depicted as a feather serpent. Feathers represent the ascension of human consciousness back to its origins - while serpent represent human DNA or physical reality."

Serpants and DNA

http://www.crystalinks.com/anunnakidna.jpg

Shape shifting or evolution or alien progenitor?

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientastronauts.gif

[rowan22]

As to historical, mythical depiction of reptiles, how about this fellow?

http://www.crystalinks.com/quetzacoatyl.gif

Quetzalcoatl
"Quetzalcoatl is a Mesoamerican deity whose name comes from the Nahuatl language and has the meaning of "feather-serpent".

The worship of a feathered serpent deity is first documented in Teotihuacan in the Late Preclassic through the Early Classic period (400 BCE 600CE) of Mesoamerican chronology - "Teotihuacan arose as a new religious center in the Mexican Highland, around the time of Christ..." -- whereafter it appears to have spread throughout Mesoamerica by the Late Classic (600 - 900 CE) (Ringle et al.).

In the Postclassic period (900 1519 CE) the worship of the feathered serpent deity was centered in the central Mexican religious center of Cholula. It is in this period that the deity is known to have been named "Quetzalcoatl" by his Nahua followers.

In the Maya area he was known as Kukulcan or Ququmatz, names that also translate as "feathered serpent" in different Mayan languages."

"Quetzalcoatl is sometimes depicted as a white man (light, the shining ones) looking nothing like the Mesoamerican people who worshipped him. Most often he is depicted as a feather serpent. Feathers represent the ascension of human consciousness back to its origins - while serpent represent human DNA or physical reality."

Serpants and DNA

http://www.crystalinks.com/anunnakidna.jpg

Shape shifting or evolution or alien progenitor?

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientastronauts.gif

It's possible isn't it? who can say really? There is another take on this though. spiritual practises which have stressed the importance of inner contact with god forms/ higher self/ other dimensions/ etc. Have stressed the need to balance seemingly opposite forces within the Psyche? to achieve enlightenment.

Maybe, as in Jungian Psychology, we contain all previous manifestations of evolutionary existences? Maybe (we) are in some way, linked to the earliest and most simple life forms on the planet?

Maybe our D.N.A. suffused as it is with reptilian D.N.A contains an echo at a genetic level/spiritual level of this connection?

Maybe genetic memory, is showing us that all life is one? You never know.

[orage]

It's possible isn't it? who can say really? There is another take on this though. spiritual practises which have stressed the importance of inner contact with god forms/ higher self/ other dimensions/ etc. Have stressed the need to balance seemingly opposite forces within the Psyche? to achieve enlightenment.

Maybe, as in Jungian Psychology, we contain all previous manifestations of evolutionary existences? Maybe (we) are in some way, linked to the earliest and most simple life forms on the planet?

Maybe our D.N.A. suffused as it is with reptilian D.N.A contains an echo at a genetic level/spiritual level of this connection?

Maybe genetic memory, is showing us that all life is one? You never know.

Certainly not exclusive. Consider this: As above, so below. Micro-Cosmos= Macro-Cosmos.

[rowan22]

Certainly not exclusive. Consider this: As above, so below. Micro-Cosmos= Macro-Cosmos.

Yeah totally. And in that the recognition that all of creation is one entity.

[orage]

More on Reptilian Brain, here from David Icke himself. Points towards the reptile and reptilian behavior within us. Reptiles (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles14.htm)

The Reptilian Brain. The Key to Understand The Illuminati and the World We line In?
"To know the Illuminati, Mr. David, you must study the Reptile"
- Credo Mutwa

First and foremost among the traits generated through the reptilian brain is the drive to establish and defend territory. This is fueled by an extremely potent "will-to-power", exemplified among lizards by the ritual behavior of two rainbow lizards competing for dominance. These animals have beautiful colors and like many lizards, use headbobbing and pushups in assertive, aggressive, courtship and greeting displays. In a contest, once the gauntlet is thrown down, the aggressive displays give way to violent combat, and the struggle is unrelenting. In victory, they are tyrannical dictators in the extreme. In defeat, they lose their majestic colors, lapse into a kind of depression, and die two weeks later.

(This is classic Illuminati behaviour. Fighting each other and humanity to the death to impose their will and dominance. Winner takes it all)

At least five human behaviors originate in the reptilian brain. These have been denoted as isopraxic, preservative, re-enactment, tropistic, and deceptive. Without defining them, I shall simply say that in human activities they find expression in:

obsessive-compulsive behavior
personal day-to-day rituals and superstitious acts
slavish conformance to old ways of doing things
ceremonial re-enactments
obeisance to precedent, as in legal, religious, cultural, and other matters
responding to partial representations (coloration, "strangeness," etc.), whether alive or inanimate
and all manner of deception

(If I had to do a quick summary of Illuminati behavior, it would be something like the above - the traits of the reptilian brain. Look at The Biggest Secret, my talk videos, and this website. They expose all of the consequences of this behavior - obsessively, compulsively, advancing their agenda at all costs; the obsession with rituals, ceremony, and symbolism; and…yes, yes… all manner of deception!)


And Sagan, as Kasalt has it in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058415066&postcount=4)

Carl Sagan's warning about the reptile within us:

Carl Sagan warns against politicians appealing to the "reptilian" portions of our brain and inciting aggression, territoriality and fear of strangers...

Here are some quotes from the book Cosmos:
[Description of the human brain] Capping the brain stem is the R-Complex, the seat of aggression, ritual, territoriality and social hierarchy, which evolved hundreds of millions of years ago in our reptilian ancestors...on the outside, living in uneasy truce with the more primitive brains beneath, is the cerebal cortex...Civilisation is a product of the cerebal cortex.

[War] When our well-being is threatened, when our illusions about ourselves are challenged, we tend - some of us at least - to fly into murderous rages. And when the same provocations are applied to nation states, they, too, sometimes fly into murderous rages, egged on often enough by those seeking personal power or profit. But as technology of murder improves and the penalties of war increase, a great many people must be made to fly into murderous rages simultaneously for a major war to be mustered. Because the organs of mass communication are often in the hands of the state [or a privileged few] this can commonly be arranged.
The global balance of terror is a very delicate balance. It depends on things not going wrong, on mistakes not being made, on the reptilian passions not being seriously aroused.

Thanks for the welcome :)

[pound]

Very interesting this Quetzelcoatl/Kukulcan. Judging from most of the ancient Meso-american mythologies that survived, it seems they were obessed with all kinds of serpent worship.


http://blog.lib.umn.edu/abinf002/architecture/Chichen%20Itza%20During%20the%20Equinox,%20Photo%2 0Copyright%201999%20by%20Barry%20Hood.jpg

On the spring or fall equinox, at sunrise, the nine pyramid levels cast a shadow on the staircase edge producing an undulating snake body

[orage]

On the spring or fall equinox, at sunrise, the nine pyramid levels cast a shadow on the staircase edge producing an undulating snake body

Interesting indeed. What do you get when you mirror that undulating snake?

DNA helix, like the one in the drawing above perhaps? Did they know something where ours came from? Who needs monkeys when you can have SNAKES :D

[pound]

Interesting indeed. What do you get when you mirror that undulating snake?

DNA helix, like the one in the drawing above perhaps? Did they know something where ours came from? Who needs monkeys when you can have SNAKES :D

Excellent observation, yes your right. I'd love to hear Icke's take on this!

[camreeno]

He talks about the whole Reptilian thing is this segment of a lecture in Melbourne, Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcVckfpwz8E&feature=related

[orage]

He talks about the whole Reptilian thing is this segment of a lecture in Melbourne, Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcVckfpwz8E&feature=related

Thanks for that, the presentation really helped understanding how David sees the reptile stuff.

[rowan22]

More on Reptilian Brain, here from David Icke himself. Points towards the reptile and reptilian behavior within us. Reptiles (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles14.htm)




And Sagan, as Kasalt has it in this thread (http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1058415066&postcount=4)



Thanks for the welcome :)

I think what they are both suggesting isn't so much of a literal "we are reptiles" The comparison being drawn relies upon the shared evolutionary context of reptiles and mammals.

The process of evolution uses similar biological solutions to common biological problems of structure and function. So over millions of years, rather than evolving a totally different set of organs for pumping blood say, the heart muscle in its broadest sense, is a pattern which many avenues of evolutionary form have developed.

The brain is the same structural blueprint. The human brain has inseparable from it the evolutionary history of its origins from it’s neuronal synaptic function to its very cellular structure.

From the earliest patterns, which can be observed by watching a developing human foetus, which goes seemingly through the whole of evolutionary history in nine months of gestation.

Showing the exact same structures and forms as say a frog, an ape. Ickes comparison is about how in the later stages of evolution mankind has developed ethics, Philosophy, Liberty, Music,Art, Science. All higher order cognitive abilitys.

The reptile comparison imo, if it is legitimate, is about human propensity in certain individuals, familys and groups, to normalise a regressive stage of evolution by the very lack of these higher order functions they fail to eveolve to.

It's something we can all do eveyday.

"Do I open the door for the old lady?, or do I not?"

It's a flippant example but you get the idea. There is one ethical compassionate, and the other less so. The (less so) when it’s made into an ideology and perpetuated by choosing power over freedom and money over relationship leads to regression in people and in bloodlines.

Evidence recently found that the genetic profile of people can be significantly altertered by the failure of one seasons crops. The mothers don’t eat as well, and this is passed directly on to the foetus and (does) alter birth weight, and I.Q predisposition towards learning difficulty’s. So its not hard to see how given a few generations of anti humanitarian indoctrination the default direction of human progression can be stalled or even maybe partially reversed by the abandonment of those qualities of the human mind which are about our most recent strides towards God/Self/Nature/ all of the above and below.

[wyndham]

What are the implications of this theory to say Global Warming, what meaning does this have to a 'repitilian' stock as a metaphor for some type of blood deficiency, as a metaphor of some type of genetic evil or mutation or whatever...if they were reptilian in any phsyical way wouldn't Global Warming be a good thing? If Al Gore were not just a metaphorical repitle but actually physically reptilian wouldn't he want the earth to heat-up a bit...

[tenzingnorgay]

I don't know why everyone gets caught up in the reptile stuff. It is not even one of his 10 most important ideas. It is just a tiny aspect of his concept of the matrix. Reptilians don't exist outside the matrix. His biggest and most contriversial theory is the concept of the matrix.

[rowan22]

I don't know why everyone gets caught up in the reptile stuff. It is not even one of his 10 most important ideas. It is just a tiny aspect of his concept of the matrix. Reptilians don't exist outside the matrix. His biggest and most contriversial theory is the concept of the matrix.

I agree but the old "reptoid" phenomena is the thing that results in the most rejection of his good insightful ideas.

[wyndham]

let's remember that the double helix is just a model, it does not actually resemble this physically

"A viviparous animal is an animal employing vivipary: the embryo develops inside the body of the mother, as opposed to outside in an egg (ovipary). The mother then gives live birth. The less developed form of vivipary is called ovoviviparity, which, for instance, occurs in most vipers. The more developed form of vivipary is called placental viviparity; placental mammals are the best example, but other animals have also adapted by incorporating this behavior, such as in scorpions, some sharks, some snakes, and in velvet worms. Certain lizards also employ this method such as the genera Tiliqua and Corucia." -wiki

[rowan22]

let's remember that the double helix is just a model, it does not actually resemble this physically

"A viviparous animal is an animal employing vivipary: the embryo develops inside the body of the mother, as opposed to outside in an egg (ovipary). The mother then gives live birth. The less developed form of vivipary is called ovoviviparity, which, for instance, occurs in most vipers. The more developed form of vivipary is called placental viviparity; placental mammals are the best example, but other animals have also adapted by incorporating this behavior, such as in scorpions, some sharks, some snakes, and in velvet worms. Certain lizards also employ this method such as the genera Tiliqua and Corucia." -wiki

Intersting wyndham, would you expand on this a bit please?

[wyndham]

it is possible that the reptilians among us are not laying eggs but giving live births

[itsallinus]

Yes, I couldn't get through all the names either. I found it very interesting reading about the creation of humans, and the way that Enki added his own DNA secretly and also a "thread" was given by the (bird)? people which gave the humans passion. I've been thinking in terms of the two different types of humans created, and the Adamus seems to be what DI describes as the "hybrids", they serve mostly unquestioningly as they were made that way. The rest of us are more wild cards in our behavior. Interesting the concept of WWII as an attempt to regain control of the Earth by the Sirians. What a bunch of dummies, choosing a drug addict! But good for us! I also reflected quite a lot on the deal made with the greys by Eisenhower and how there was a human scientist along for the experiments with humans. I've read elsewhere that the reppies broke their agreement along the way. Looking forward to your thoughts...love, Angel

Sorry it took so long to reply, I have not finished reading part II yet but what I can say is this:

If I remember correctly, the matrix books explain this on-going battle for control over earth and that we have a right to claim it ourselves (hence the 'royal blood' in our veins) but without a voice and being able to have direct contact with orion queens we might not get a chance to.

Don't see the negative in this alternate history as again in the matrix books it explains that the sequential beings have embraced the physical reality and whilst being aware of the spiritual to some degree, they have forsaken it. Their spiritual journey is much longer than ours and if we embrace the spiritual self and kiss the physical reality fairwell and thanks for all the crap, then we can move on to bigger things so none of their power struggles will matter.

The unique gift we were given was not just emotions but the ability to contain spirit's, which allowed our higher selves to incarnate in the game. But we are playing it in the simultaneous just to gain as much life experience as possible in a short time period. It all ties in with the terra papers.

The future is what you make it, keep with the physical and the terra papers serve as a good history lesson to give you an idea of the future repeating itself but if you want the spiritual you can observe and be informed but need not worry about it, its not your future. :)

[itsallinus]

As to historical, mythical depiction of reptiles, how about this fellow?

http://www.crystalinks.com/quetzacoatyl.gif

Quetzalcoatl
"Quetzalcoatl is a Mesoamerican deity whose name comes from the Nahuatl language and has the meaning of "feather-serpent".

The worship of a feathered serpent deity is first documented in Teotihuacan in the Late Preclassic through the Early Classic period (400 BCE 600CE) of Mesoamerican chronology - "Teotihuacan arose as a new religious center in the Mexican Highland, around the time of Christ..." -- whereafter it appears to have spread throughout Mesoamerica by the Late Classic (600 - 900 CE) (Ringle et al.).

In the Postclassic period (900 1519 CE) the worship of the feathered serpent deity was centered in the central Mexican religious center of Cholula. It is in this period that the deity is known to have been named "Quetzalcoatl" by his Nahua followers.

In the Maya area he was known as Kukulcan or Ququmatz, names that also translate as "feathered serpent" in different Mayan languages."

"Quetzalcoatl is sometimes depicted as a white man (light, the shining ones) looking nothing like the Mesoamerican people who worshipped him. Most often he is depicted as a feather serpent. Feathers represent the ascension of human consciousness back to its origins - while serpent represent human DNA or physical reality."

Serpants and DNA

http://www.crystalinks.com/anunnakidna.jpg

Shape shifting or evolution or alien progenitor?

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientastronauts.gif

This post (thanks!) could also tie in with the terra papers in reference to the 'gift' given to us.

[nirvana]

Regarding reptilians its abit like religeon you have to have faith in them because they may not exist.Also if they really do exist ,you have to believe in them ,to give them the means to influence you.{I think}

Also there exists only symbolism and people write their own and many theories regarding these.

Most people I know that believe in reptilians {only a couple of icke devotees} have their knowledge from other peoples research . Unless you have the means to do this research yourself how do you know its genuine? also all the research is manly symbolism and no real pictures evidence etc.:)

[pound]

Not that pictures are everything. But didnt someone snap a photo of the so called "Moth man"?? Moth man in the descriptions that people have given of him fits the portrayal perfectly of a Royal winged Draco. Both were very tall, both had glowing eyes, both have wings, both have a "reptile" look, both have horns etc...

[snakesnladders]

hah, yeah , blood banks. ever since i read a story about vampires 'modernizing' and working in blood banks when i was a kid, i've always been a bit suss of them :)

[snakesnladders]

he's still walking and talking probly cuz hes no threat.
or something?
cuz most people wudnt believe this stuff?

[rowan22]

Regarding reptilians its abit like religeon you have to have faith in them because they may not exist.Also if they really do exist ,you have to believe in them ,to give them the means to influence you.{I think}

Also there exists only symbolism and people write their own and many theories regarding these.

Most people I know that believe in reptilians {only a couple of icke devotees} have their knowledge from other peoples research . Unless you have the means to do this research yourself how do you know its genuine? also all the research is manly symbolism and no real pictures evidence etc.:)

It just seems a real stumbling block in most peoples minds who otherwise would give David the respect I think he deserves.

[pound]

It just seems a real stumbling block in most peoples minds who otherwise would give David the respect I think he deserves.


That shouldnt be any sweat off of Davids back, as he's simply researched and made his own conclusions based upon concepts (reptilians etc..) that are thousands of years old. I applaud him simply for trying to make sense of it all! I dont see that as being grounds for discrediting everything Icke is saying though.

[tenzingnorgay]

I agree but the old "reptoid" phenomena is the thing that results in the most rejection of his good insightful ideas.

It definitely is, and that's just another reason why I can't understand why people here are wasting their time on it.

[pound]

People on here are for the most part making an honest attempt to try to learn about something that is intriguing and integral to the understanding of our human origins. Their is nothing wrong with that.

[itsallinus]

It definitely is, and that's just another reason why I can't understand why people here are wasting their time on it.

Just because many people reject his ideas does that mean we all should? How does being here relate to wasting our time when he is not the only one saying this. I hope you realize that many of us (myself included) are interested in this because we have had direct experience(s) that brought us here in the first place some of which include seeing them for real (appearing to be real but actually vibrating high enough to gain awareness of the inter-connection between the astral realms, the 4th dimension and the 3rd) or through finding their own evidence thats dotted around the world and through the ages...or perhaps for real (looked real to the next person when I saw them).

[lyghtkynge]

Just because many people reject his ideas does that mean we all should? How does being here relate to wasting our time when he is not the only one saying this. I hope you realize that many of us (myself included) are interested in this because we have had direct experience(s) that brought us here in the first place some of which include seeing them for real (appearing to be real but actually vibrating high enough to gain awareness of the inter-connection between the astral realms, the 4th dimension and the 3rd) or through finding their own evidence thats dotted around the world and through the ages...or perhaps for real (looked real to the next person when I saw them).


Exactly the same here, direct contact. They Live....with humanity.

Ever wonder about the True Hidden Past of mankind? I wonder if folks could bear the soul-shattering nature of it. Its said many would be willing to die before accepting Truth of certain things, and this would be one of them. As children, no problem, but once indoctrinated by the social concensus, it's too late for most.

The Truth is horrific and wonderous at once. It is a mighty Test (creation) we have set before Us.

All Light Is Serpentine In Origin...actual.
. .http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EEikGSJZw6U/SsY10YLEX8I/AAAAAAAAAHc/4mosl-vPQpE/S220/orphic-egg-sm-200w.jpg

[nioz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djinn

[armoured_amazon]

I´m looking for a logical debate on the theory of reptilian shapeshifters.

Where Icke sees reptilian beings, I see demons. I've had plenty of experiences with them, and have no problem with the concept he suggests. Potato, potato. Do demonic entities wander this earth, masquerading as humans? Absolutely.

:)

[itsallinus]

Where Icke sees reptilian beings, I see demons. I've had plenty of experiences with them, and have no problem with the concept he suggests. Potato, potato. Do demonic entities wander this earth, masquerading as humans? Absolutely.

:)

I enjoyed reading this :)

[armoured_amazon]

I enjoyed reading this :)

Hehe :) I didn't enjoy my late night snack; organic pasta sauce tasted like baby food. I'll make my own in future. :(

[apricot]

Hi Trampoline! I've just read your message even though it's been on a while but I have to admit, although I've been following David Icke for a year, it is actually today that for the first time I feel strong enough to read the reptile theories!!

I read your points and they're very valid - I have to admit deep down I won't mind if the reptile theory is disproved because it shakes my foundations just a little too much.
But having said that, I am biased in reading David Icke's stuff, simply because I'm such a pathetic David Icke groupie that everything he says makes sense to me!! Ok, in reality, I am also a reasoning person and can make my mind up on things but one thing is sure for me, David Icke hasn't just dreamt this one up to get a reaction.
Anyway, as of yet, I haven't really read the theories but I'm going to this afternoon as I've printed an interview with David Icke and shall settle down to read it over a nice cup of tea. Which I may spit out in horror!

As to your points though, I can say I personally have never seen a shape shifting reptile (although there's a rather disturbing picture of a reptile on my rabbit's pellets - what's that got to do with rabbit pellets?(!)

And as to your point about no recordings of people seeing reptiles are on you tube or in the papers - yes, that makes me think. My instinct tells me that if this is true, it's such a big secret that there not going to let it slip easiliy - and after all they have means of suppressing information in the telly etc. Hmmm, it gets me thinking though. I thought Neutrino made a very interesting point -

'The change in frequency range makes it appear as if the person themselves morphed or shape shifted into the Reptilian when really they didn't, it's more of an illusion brought about by the person suddenly seeing the Reptilian.'

I'd take that as the most likely answer.

Going to get reading - I'll give you more thoughts later!:)

[rowan22]

Exactly the same here, direct contact. They Live....with humanity.

Ever wonder about the True Hidden Past of mankind? I wonder if folks could bear the soul-shattering nature of it. Its said many would be willing to die before accepting Truth of certain things, and this would be one of them. As children, no problem, but once indoctrinated by the social concensus, it's too late for most.

The Truth is horrific and wonderous at once. It is a mighty Test (creation) we have set before Us.

All Light Is Serpentine In Origin...actual.
. .http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EEikGSJZw6U/SsY10YLEX8I/AAAAAAAAAHc/4mosl-vPQpE/S220/orphic-egg-sm-200w.jpg


I agree. The "reptiles are coming" is just another regurgitated projection of everything humanity finds most difficult to accept about itself. Demons, Reptiles, Jews, Muslims, Christians its always someone or something else never us!

The fact that each section of the "evil" ones has perpetrated as much wrongdoing on the "others" as has been done against them should urge people to feel the real source of the "evil". Its within each of us people, and until you include it within you as a part of you ,you are powerless to do anything about it. Good Post!

[apricot]

I agree. The "reptiles are coming" is just another regurgitated projection of everything humanity finds most difficult to accept about itself. Demons, Reptiles, Jews, Muslims, Christians its always someone or something else never us!

The fact that each section of the "evil" ones has perpetrated as much wrongdoing on the "others" as has been done against them should urge people to feel the real source of the "evil". Its within each of us people, and until you include it within you as a part of you ,you are powerless to do anything about it. Good Post!

Interesting- both of you and I have to say I agree.

But regards this elite bloodline that connects all the royal families, presidents etc - I was reading about it yesterday and for me, there is just one thing that flaws the whole theory. They're trying to maintain this bloodline because it's superior to all others but, hang on, George Bush is part of this bloodline?! Superior being?! That's the one thing that makes the whole theory crumble!!

Seriously though, this theory has got me interested but a couple of things leave me perplexed - another one is that that most people, sometime in their life, search themselves spiritually - how come these people never do? Surely at some point in their lives, one of them would question their own behaviour (ie sacrificing children and drinking blood) At the end of it all their lives are like the rest of ours, aren't they? They can shape shift and drink blood all they like but they're still heading the same way surely?

The other thing I found highly bizarre whilst reading yesterday was the existence of a society that's called 'parents against sacrifice' - that can't be for real surely?!

[lyghtkynge]

Interesting- both of you and I have to say I agree.

But regards this elite bloodline that connects all the royal families, presidents etc - I was reading about it yesterday and for me, there is just one thing that flaws the whole theory. They're trying to maintain this bloodline because it's superior to all others but, hang on, George Bush is part of this bloodline?! Superior being?! That's the one thing that makes the whole theory crumble!!

Seriously though, this theory has got me interested but a couple of things leave me perplexed - another one is that that most people, sometime in their life, search themselves spiritually - how come these people never do? Surely at some point in their lives, one of them would question their own behaviour (ie sacrificing children and drinking blood) At the end of it all their lives are like the rest of ours, aren't they? They can shape shift and drink blood all they like but they're still heading the same way surely?

The other thing I found highly bizarre whilst reading yesterday was the existence of a society that's called 'parents against sacrifice' - that can't be for real surely?!

Good thoughts.

Beyond the Veil are things that have been intentfully buried by mankind; these don't go away, but remain to plague the buriers. These are with us still.

Geo.Bush is a mere throwback, an imperfect result with perfect credentials, therefore most suitable to lead a blind, sleeping race of peoples. Worked well, didn't it? Just because there is a 'superiorly endowed' bloodline, doens't mean its unflawed (obvious here!).

And insofar as 'spiritual' introspection, forget that...many humans live out their lives with nary a truly spiritual thought...Spriit is the 4th State of Energy...plasmic, and so tenuous as to seem to not exist. Surely you grasp that not all can enter it's domains? These folks live an intellectual (if lucky) and instinctive life, most suitable to the many. Somewhere within is hidden the Spark of All, of course. Given time, it will find its way out.

You show much considered thoughtfulness, but have to encompass the truth that humanity is diverse in all ways, not just body & emotion, but mind & spirit, as well. This diversity contributes to the Challenge the Creator Forces have set before conscious-awareness, and they must prepare for this as Tests, whether they know it or not.

I'd like an 'A+', but who knows?
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq357/dogz9/cute.jpg

[limelady]

But regards this elite bloodline that connects all the royal families, presidents etc - I was reading about it yesterday and for me, there is just one thing that flaws the whole theory. They're trying to maintain this bloodline because it's superior to all others but, hang on, George Bush is part of this bloodline?! Superior being?! That's the one thing that makes the whole theory crumble!!





Really?

For me thats a good example of how the bloodlines have managed to achieve what they have.

GWB is indeed an imbecile, but it was his ability to be programmed that made him so valuable to the elite. A perfect puppet, and he did he's job well did he not?

Indeed many within the top eschelons of the bloodline families are mad as hatters from the inbreeding......besides being imbecilic, some are so mad as to be psychotic loonies!

Take ol' Henry the 8th as an example of an extreme version of what their genetics can turn out! :eek: Besides being highly gifted and intelligent, Henry was quite mad! But he too played his role admirably on behalf of the united bloodline families did he not? I would suspect that it was his extreme narcissism and psychopathic tendencies that made him such a valuable 'puppet' politically at that time (think break away from Rome and the Church of England for a start)......although I think Henry was SO mad, much of the time he acted autonomously in an out-of-control state, so its possible on occasion he did more harm than good.....or more 'harm' than was actually required of him.

GWB did the same at times, and that's when we saw scurries of damage control put in place. :p

[pound]

Sometimes I got the impression that GWB was simply putting on a "stupid" act to get the American public to feel as if his lack of brain power somehow translated to him being more "normal" than the average Washington insider. I guess he figured (Im speculating)that by acting "average" i.e. "dumb" he could score more points with the common man....Dunno, just an observation and an insult to the common man BTW!
And concerning interconnecting lineages. The Hapsburgs especially come to mind. To have recognizable body parts given your family name due to excessive incest and interbreeding, is the epitome of bizarre!

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/habsburg/habsburg-jaw.htm

https://www.msu.edu/course/lbs/333/fall/hapsburglip.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1170143/How-keeping-family-spelled-end-line-inbred-royal-dynasty.html

On the subject of Drac's. Im sure they exist. Just in a different realm that we as Humans (some) are not able to percieve. A good example of this is are Ghosts! Interdimensional beings that we fully dont understand yet.

[rowan22]

Really?

For me thats a good example of how the bloodlines have managed to achieve what they have.

GWB is indeed an imbecile, but it was his ability to be programmed that made him so valuable to the elite. A perfect puppet, and he did he's job well did he not?

Indeed many within the top eschelons of the bloodline families are mad as hatters from the inbreeding......besides being imbecilic, some are so mad as to be psychotic loonies!

Take ol' Henry the 8th as an example of an extreme version of what their genetics can turn out! :eek: Besides being highly gifted and intelligent, Henry was quite mad! But he too played his role admirably on behalf of the united bloodline families did he not? I would suspect that it was his extreme narcissism and psychopathic tendencies that made him such a valuable 'puppet' politically at that time (think break away from Rome and the Church of England for a start)......although I think Henry was SO mad, much of the time he acted autonomously in an out-of-control state, so its possible on occasion he did more harm than good.....or more 'harm' than was actually required of him.

GWB did the same at times, and that's when we saw scurries of damage control put in place. :p

Great Points! I hoped that this would be their ultimate undoing to be honest. In GWB the elites had chosen a puppet whose total lack of guile threatened to expose the underlying megalomania at the centre of the office.

But the fact that the stage show came up with Obama as a poster boy for "change" has left me feeling completely appalled. It's the old "bread and circuses" again isn't it?

People need distraction, and the illusion of hope to make resisting seem just too risky. Just like the Nazis did to the Jews in WW2. Telling the internees to attach labels with their names on the luggage so they could be retrieved "later"

Of course there was no later, but the Nazis knew how the devil was in the detail, and that such an understated reassurance had more power than an overt one in disarming panic.

[rowan22]

Beyond the Veil are things that have been intentfully buried by mankind; these don't go away, but remain to plague the buriers. These are with us still.

Geo.Bush is a mere throwback, an imperfect result with perfect credentials, therefore most suitable to lead a blind, sleeping race of peoples. Worked well, didn't it? Just because there is a 'superiorly endowed' bloodline, doens't mean its unflawed (obvious here!).

And insofar as 'spiritual' introspection, forget that...many humans live out their lives with nary a truly spiritual thought...Spriit is the 4th State of Energy...plasmic, and so tenuous as to seem to not exist. Surely you grasp that not all can enter it's domains? These folks live an intellectual (if lucky) and instinctive life, most suitable to the many. Somewhere within is hidden the Spark of All, of course. Given time, it will find its way out.

You show much considered thoughtfulness, but have to encompass the truth that humanity is diverse in all ways, not just body & emotion, but mind & spirit, as well. This diversity contributes to the Challenge the Creator Forces have set before conscious-awareness, and they must prepare for this as Tests, whether they know it or not.
I think its a bit like learning to drive. When you first start to learn you are all feet and elbows, and the effort it takes to remember what does what and what goes where is draining. You can read books on how to drive, study your DVD and theory, but ultimately the pieces fall into place and hey presto!

Now you drive with only the smallest conscious attention. It has become an instinct. Spirituality is the same for me. I used to read the esoteric and study the Tibetan this and that. But I came to the conclusion that the "process" is happening whether I am aware of it or not. A deep Psychological/Spiritual total alignment of my spirit with the cosmos.

Not in any "I'm special" way. In fact I feel that to be a real obstacle. And most of the people I have encountered who are preoccupied with the esoteric to the detriment of the common sense loose their way, because the "simple" is also the fundamental.

All complexity is first simplicity. And all complexity ultimately becomes simplicity. It is just our point of understanding that changes, not the underlying truth of what exists.

[richie p]

reply to clint giles page 5 *42

isnt it funny how i cant watch these videos!
"removed by user again" my ass lol

[soxism]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence..