Masonic Blood Drinking Skulls & Rituals

[decim]

Quote:
drinking blood from a skull does not feature in craft Freemasonry but is a feature of the ritual in a higher (side) order.

From What or Who's blood did/do these drinkers sup?

Was/is a Human skull used & from where?

What is accomplished by the blood drinking?

[grandsecretary]

From What or Who's blood did/do these drinkers sup?

Was/is a Human skull used & from where?

What is accomplished by the blood drinking?

Human skulls, in fact entire human skeletons were available for purchase in the UK until relatively recently.

In the Orders of the Knights Templar during the Middle Ages, real blood was drunk from real skulls. This is not done any more, wine is substituted, although blood may be drawn from the arm and used for a blood signature.

[marpat]

If you look at rituals in tibet you find lots of such imagery. Skulls are used for cups, thigh bones for trumpets, etc. The whole idea is based on non-attachment to the body and the bones of people are used as ritual items. This looks bad from a western viewpoint because we have a totally different attitude towards death.

[grandsecretary]

Also an invocation of the spirit that inhabited the skull. In the case of the Knights Templar, who were Free Masons and Céli Dé Christians, the skull represented the skull of John the Baptist.

[decim]

I have read that China does a roaring trade in the international cadaver 'market', by the container load & by the 'pickled' barrel.

Blood used for signatures? As in the widely known making pacts with 'old nick' signing?

What did the blood drinking accomplish?

Was Human blood drinking a 'regular' thing, or as a individuals initiation?


Human skulls, in fact entire human skeletons were available for purchase in the UK until relatively recently.

In the Orders of the Knights Templar during the Middle Ages, real blood was drunk from real skulls. This is not done any more, wine is substituted, although blood may be drawn from the arm and used for a blood signature.

[deathcultreject]

If you look at rituals in tibet you find lots of such imagery. Skulls are used for cups, thigh bones for trumpets, etc. The whole idea is based on non-attachment to the body and the bones of people are used as ritual items. This looks bad from a western viewpoint because we have a totally different attitude towards death.

That's what I fell for, someone was waving a phurba around and saying things about blessings and love.

(A phurba is a sacred Tibbetan knife used for exorcisms.)

When I saw the phurba in daylight, it was a tacky painted model, so I don't know where the skull bowl came from.

[decim]

I have read about the Baptists head relic.

'Invoking' as in bringing the spirit into themselves, as opposed to 'evoking' or conjuring in order to interrogate?

Also an invocation of the spirit that inhabited the skull. In the case of the Knights Templar, who were Free Masons and Céli Dé Christians, the skull represented the skull of John the Baptist.

[grandsecretary]

I have read that China does a roaring trade in the international cadaver 'market', by the container load & by the 'pickled' barrel.

Blood used for signatures? As in the widely known making pacts with 'old nick' signing?

What did the blood drinking accomplish?

Was Human blood drinking a 'regular' thing, or as a individuals initiation?

As part of the initiation ceremonies invoking the spirit of John the Baptist as invoking within one's own spiritual entity, at one with him and with his endeavors here on earth in other words.

[stevepenny]

As part of the initiation ceremonies invoking the spirit of John the Baptist as invoking within one's own spiritual entity, at one with him and with his endeavors here on earth in other words.

Hi Peter,

For clarification:

The cup (skull) is sipped fom seven times, as follows:

To Moses, Aholiab and Bezalee.
To Solomon King of Israel, Hiram King of Tyre and Hiram Abiff.
To Zerubbabel.
To John the Baptist.
To St John the Evangelist.
To the memory of all valiant knights.
To all Knights Templar, wherever they may be.

p.s. BT not putting in Broadband until 6th so my email will be delayed.

[decim]

Thanks.

To what end are the blood signatures applied?

As part of the initiation ceremonies invoking the spirit of John the Baptist as invoking within one's own spiritual entity, at one with him and with his endeavors here on earth in other words.

[grandsecretary]

Hi Peter,

For clarification:

The cup (skull) is sipped fom seven times, as follows:

To Moses, Aholiab and Bezaleel.
To Solomon King of Israel, Hiram King of Tyre and Hiram Abiff.
To Zerubbabel.
To John the Baptist.
To St John the Evangelist.
To the memory of all valiant knights.
To all Knights Templar, wherever they may be.

p.s. BT not putting in Broadband until 6th so my email will be delayed.

That is the Moderns ritual ceremony. It does have certain similarities with the real Knights Templar initiation ceremonies, but as far as I know they do not drink or draw blood. Wine substitute and spit on the end of a quill (unhygienic IMHO) to sign one's name in a secret place.

[decim]

A thigh perchance?

to sign one's name in a secret place.

[grandsecretary]

A thigh perchance?

No, not a body part, although I do know what you are referring to.

[decim]

"Secret Place" as in a geographical location?

To what end are the blood signatures applied?

& to what are they signing?

No, not a body part, although I do know what you are referring to.

[grandsecretary]

"Secret Place" as in a geographical location?

To what end are the blood signatures applied?

& to what are they signing?

No. I am beginning to feel like Eamonn Andrews.

They are signing their name to a new covenant with God, on to a white marble cube.

[decim]

hehe.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39113000/jpg/_39113700_eamonn_andrews_1955_203.jpg

A covenant with God.

What does the covenant say?

Are the signatories aware of which God? (The)

White marble because of the porosity, leaving the signature indelible?

No. I am beginning to feel like Eamonn Andrews.

They are signing their name to a new covenant with God, on to a white marble cube.

[grandsecretary]

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/AncientofDays-1.jpg


There is only one God, the Creator and Preserver of all things. It is our God. He is not a man with a white beard sitting on a cloud.

To learn more you must join our religion and enter into a covenant with God.

[thelonious]

In the Orders of the Knights Templar during the Middle Ages, real blood was drunk from real skulls.

Reference please?

[decim]

Fair enough, thanks for the information you are able to give.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/AncientofDays-1.jpg


There is only one God, the Creator and Preserver of all things. It is our God. He is not a man with a white beard sitting on a cloud.

To learn more you must join our religion and enter into a covenant with God.

[marpat]

I have read that China does a roaring trade in the international cadaver 'market', by the container load & by the 'pickled' barrel.

Blood used for signatures? As in the widely known making pacts with 'old nick' signing?

What did the blood drinking accomplish?

Was Human blood drinking a 'regular' thing, or as a individuals initiation?

Perhaps you should ask a christian

[free thinker]

Reference please?

Here is one source that mentions it in times gone by.

Under heading....A Sinister Sacrament?


The candidate is never told to whom the fifth libation is drunk (it is "sealed"), and it is offered to him out of a human skull! He is told by the "Eminent Commander" to repeat a short oath, which says, in part:
[A]s the sins of the whole world were once visited upon the head of our Saviour, so may all the sins of the person whose skull this once was, in addition to my own, be heaped upon my head, and may this libation appear in judgment against me, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate my most solemn vow of a Knight Templar, so help me God….



http://www.crowhealingnetwork.net/pdf/Freemasonry%20on%20Trial.pdf

...some interesting reading before and after it too.

[keystone]

OK then heres a thought.

Templars were Christian Knights - yes?

What, pray, is communion supposed to be if it isn't a blood ritual?

Cheers

[free thinker]

i only supplied a refrence, but yes i see what you are saying.


happy reading, i'm off to send out some....ZZZZZZzzzzz - night

[grandsecretary]

OK then heres a thought.

Templars were Christian Knights - yes?

What, pray, is communion supposed to be if it isn't a blood ritual?

Cheers

It is keystone. Quite right, spot on.

[keystone]

It is keystone. Quite right, spot on.

Funny innit how this thread has gone very quiet suddenly.

Cheers

[deathcultreject]

Funny innit how this thread has gone very quiet suddenly.

Cheers

*stumbles in and starts throwing beer around*

[keystone]

Hic

[boots]

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/AncientofDays-1.jpg


There is only one God, the Creator and Preserver of all things. It is our God. He is not a man with a white beard sitting on a cloud.

To learn more you must join our religion and enter into a covenant with God.


No he is NOT a god sitting on a cloud Thats the way most personify him.

Very good GS.

What I take offence too is this statement.

To learn more you must join our religion and enter into a covenant with God

Says who?? There are many roads that lead to Rome.


.

[keystone]

There are many roads that lead to Rome.Slip of the tongue? ;)

Cheers

[decim]

The Pergamon Altar, Satan's Throne, Patmos, Europa abducted by Bull

http://www.concordiaministries.net/images/Pope_Benedict_XVI.jpg

Dorothy's slippers

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/16/pope_bush_narrowweb__300x433,0.jpg

Drink the blood, eat the flesh said George A. Romero

"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgement of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."
~ Revelation 17:1-6

OK then heres a thought.

Templars were Christian Knights - yes?

What, pray, is communion supposed to be if it isn't a blood ritual?

Cheers

[meksar]

Blood drinking gives them this intense rush as the terrified adrenaline of the victim is in the blood. Also for some it is done on a daily basis to keep the human codes in their DNA.

[hatshepsut]

goes back to the Tartars and nomadic Turkic tribes who bred horses and lived on their flesh and blood.

For example, here are the Massagetae, orignating from Uzbekistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae

Similar name to the blood-drinking Maasai, right?

"Traditionally, the Maasai diet consisted of meat, milk, and blood from cattle ..The Maasai are monotheistic, and they call God Enkai or Engai. Engai is a single deity with a dual nature: Engai Narok (Black God) is benevolent, and Engai Nanyokie (Red God) is vengeful.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai

[stevepenny]

That is the Moderns ritual ceremony. It does have certain similarities with the real Knights Templar initiation ceremonies, but as far as I know they do not drink or draw blood. Wine substitute and spit on the end of a quill (unhygienic IMHO) to sign one's name in a secret place.

Correct. There is an intention to draw blood later on in the ritual but it is a test of resolve rather then a physical act. Obviously Templars bleeding to death in the local community does not do much for recruitment ;)

[stevepenny]

Here is one source that mentions it in times gone by.

Under heading....A Sinister Sacrament?


This would be of American origin and may well be the practice in American commanderies.

In the UK we 'drink' all 7 libations...after all why waste a good Rioja?

[stevepenny]

goes back to the Tartars and nomadic Turkic tribes who bred horses and lived on their flesh and blood.

For example, here are the Massagetae, orignating from Uzbekistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massagetae

Similar name to the blood-drinking Maasai, right?

"Traditionally, the Maasai diet consisted of meat, milk, and blood from cattle ..The Maasai are monotheistic, and they call God Enkai or Engai. Engai is a single deity with a dual nature: Engai Narok (Black God) is benevolent, and Engai Nanyokie (Red God) is vengeful.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai

Close but no banana ;)

Whilst this statement is correct, the 'Ritual' element of the Templar tradition has its origin in the 1500's, when the Council of Trent confirmed that the sacrifice of Calvary was instituted by Jesus during the last supper.

[thelonious]

Here is one source that mentions it in times gone by.

Under heading....A Sinister Sacrament?




No....I mean, GS's claim that the original Templars drank blood out of a human skull. I am aware that modern Templar orders sometimes drink wine from a human skull as part of the initiation process, which was probably practiced by the original Templars (and the other orders of chivalry).

But GS's claim that they drank blood is preposterous, and appears to be something he simply made up.

[stevepenny]

No....I mean, GS's claim that the original Templars drank blood out of a human skull. I am aware that modern Templar orders sometimes drink wine from a human skull as part of the initiation process, which was probably practiced by the original Templars (and the other orders of chivalry).

But GS's claim that they drank blood is preposterous, and appears to be something he simply made up.

Possibly. The pre-moderns ritual apparently called for the initiate to drink his own blood that was drawn from his arm.

I've never seen a pre-moderns ritual so I am not talking from a position of authority. Nowadays the skull is filled with a nice dry red, and the pretence to draw blood used to symbolise the initiates resolve.

[lyghtkynge]

Humanity is a spiritual child still, and superstitious as defense of its Ignorance & Innocence.

The Blood is the LifeForce flow as symbol-made-flesh (manifested) of the Deeper Truth (which won't be revealed here).

The Skull is how it's all done: Death & Life mixed together as One.

They had better keep it secret, or the beasts of humanity will attempt to destroy themselves,
so that they may hide in their closets of Ignorance & Innocence a little longer.

Icky blood. Evil Chalice of Being-Presence. Yuck.

"More Life, please!" they cry!

That damnable mirror of Truth.
http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:0qNUbg05yVdDoM::www.dreamstime.com/skull-symbol-sun-light-flare-thumb6235357.jpg&h=94&w=94&usg=__CdGi9tWsDKrxOxh5XZUMOE1b6Is=

[thelonious]

Possibly. The pre-moderns ritual apparently called for the initiate to drink his own blood that was drawn from his arm.

Which ritual would that be, and what do you mean by "pre-moderns"?

I've never seen a pre-moderns ritual so I am not talking from a position of authority. Nowadays the skull is filled with a nice dry red, and the pretence to draw blood used to symbolise the initiates resolve.

Having taken the Order of the Temple, as well as the chivalric degrees of the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite, I must say that I have never seen any "pretense to draw blood" in Masonic Templary. Does such a practice occur outside of the United States?

[keystone]

Blood drinking gives them this intense rush as the terrified adrenaline of the victim is in the blood. Also for some it is done on a daily basis to keep the human codes in their DNA.Tell 'em that when they are at Mass or Communion on Sunday.

Cheers

[grandsecretary]

Possibly. The pre-moderns ritual apparently called for the initiate to drink his own blood that was drawn from his arm.

I've never seen a pre-moderns ritual so I am not talking from a position of authority. Nowadays the skull is filled with a nice dry red, and the pretence to draw blood used to symbolise the initiates resolve.

Thank you Steve. The drawing of blood and the use of a skull to represent St John The Baptist was included in the original ceremony.

[stevepenny]

Which ritual would that be, and what do you mean by "pre-moderns"?

Having taken the Order of the Temple, as well as the chivalric degrees of the Ancient and Accepted (Scottish) Rite, I must say that I have never seen any "pretense to draw blood" in Masonic Templary. Does such a practice occur outside of the United States?

You will have to fill in the blanks yourself ;)

Worthy _______, it was customary at the period of institution of our Order for each ________ to be required to sign his name with his blood on the North-East corner of the Mystical Stone before he could obtain the Sacred Word which it enshrines; are you prepared to sign your name on the Stone which is now presented to you?

Are you prepared to conform to the ancient ceremony of the Order?

Yes

Whence will you have the blood drawn?

My arm

...draws his dagger from his belt then with his left hand and takes hold of .....left wrist and with his right hand directs the point of dagger thereto.

Eminent ________, the _______is ready.

Worthy _______, accepting your ready acquiescence as a sufficient proof of your devotion to our Order, we dispense with the observance of the custom (M. releases ________ wrist, replaces his dagger in his belt and takes his place at ________ side) further than to require you to moisten the pen with your lips, and write your initials with it upon the Stone.

[deathcultreject]

Are you talking about the talking head called 'Baphomet' when you talk about Templars drinking out of John the Baptist's head?

I thought that there was no evidence for this apart from confessions under torture.

[stevepenny]

Are you talking about the talking head called 'Baphomet' when you talk about Templars drinking out of John the Baptist's head?

I thought that there was no evidence for this apart from confessions under torture.

There isn't. The accusation against the Templars contained two references to Baphomet and that is the only connection.

The etymology of the word has never been determined but there are those who believe that it is a corruption of the word 'Mahomet', which in English is Mohammed. I'm not convinced that this holds water as it would constitute idolatry for both the Templars and their Islamin allies.

[deathcultreject]

There isn't. The accusation against the Templars contained two references to Baphomet and that is the only connection.

The etymology of the word has never been determined but there are those who believe that it is a corruption of the word 'Mahomet', which in English is Mohammed. I'm not convinced that this holds water as it would constitute idolatry for both the Templars and their Islamin allies.

The early chaos magicians seemed to think the name means 'grant wisdom' with the 'met' standing for 'Metis' the Greek Titan of wisdom.

Edited to add that Zeus ate Metis (for reasons of proffesional rivalry) after which his head was cleaved open and Metis re emerged from his head as Athena, who was seen as an Olympian rather than a Titan.

So there's kind of a refference to skulls and heads there.

[thelonious]

Interesting, Steve. This rite does not occur in the ceremonial in use in the United States.

GS' assertion that blood-drinking occured in the "original ceremony" continues to be extremely unverified, and that's putting it charitably. GS does not have access to the "original ceremony", regardless of what he claims.

[deathcultreject]

Interesting, Steve. This rite does not occur in the ceremonial in use in the United States.

GS' assertion that blood-drinking occured in the "original ceremony" continues to be extremely unverified, and that's putting it charitably. GS does not have access to the "original ceremony", regardless of what he claims.

So it's a conspiricy theory?

[thelonious]

So it's a conspiricy theory?

No, it's a lie. ;)

[eternal_spirit]

There isn't. The accusation against the Templars contained two references to Baphomet and that is the only connection.

The etymology of the word has never been determined but there are those who believe that it is a corruption of the word 'Mahomet', which in English is Mohammed. I'm not convinced that this holds water as it would constitute idolatry for both the Templars and their Islamin allies.

If the Dome of the Rock is really Solomon's temple. I know the temple is claimed to be located beneath and the dome was built on top. Some claim the Temple of Solomon never existed.

It's a bit like the so called cult of the head (Celtic or Ancient Briton) was it a myth or propaganda agianst the Celts.

[eternal_spirit]

Bit off topic but here goes. Read about Hussein who was be headed by rival Islamic sects. He became Saint Hussein a Martyr to the Shiite Muslims. Some 1200 years or so later some Shiites cut their own head and their childrens in a ritual to honour Hussein.

Could the Templars head they claimed to worship have been this guy?

It may have been better persevered that J the Baptists. It being a fresher head.

[deathcultreject]

No, it's a lie. ;)

But still a theory.

[eternal_spirit]

The early chaos magicians seemed to think the name means 'grant wisdom' with the 'met' standing for 'Metis' the Greek Titan of wisdom.

Edited to add that Zeus ate Metis (for reasons of proffesional rivalry) after which his head was cleaved open and Metis re emerged from his head as Athena, who was seen as an Olympian rather than a Titan.

So there's kind of a refference to skulls and heads there.

Bit like when that guy (can't remember his name Persius?) killed Medusa then held her head (used her eyes) to defeat the sea monster (typhon?)

Then out of her death came the winged horse pegasus which Persius rode on to the Gods in heaven Mount Olympus or something like that. (maybe some allegory there about ascending/enlightenment)

And

The headless woman is probably this goddess: KALI
http://www.greatdreams.com/kali2.jpg

Kali, the harlot of Revelation 17, that is, the energy of our time cycle. That energy is indicated by the "rowdy, drunken party." The kings of the earth become drunk on the wine of the harlot, which evokes the emotion of fury or wrath. Kali is said to evoke the emotion "tamasisk," which means fury. At the end of the three-stage cycle, Kali, the harlot, is deposed.

[deathcultreject]

Bit like when that guy (can't remember his name Persius?) killed Medusa then held her head (used her eyes) to defeat the sea monster (typhon?)

Then out of her death came the winged horse pegasus which Persius rode on to the Gods in heaven Mount Olympus or something like that. (maybe some allegory there about ascending/enlightenment)

And

The headless woman is probably this goddess: KALI
http://www.greatdreams.com/kali2.jpg

Kali, the harlot of Revelation 17, that is, the energy of our time cycle. That energy is indicated by the "rowdy, drunken party." The kings of the earth become drunk on the wine of the harlot, which evokes the emotion of fury or wrath. Kali is said to evoke the emotion "tamasisk," which means fury. At the end of the three-stage cycle, Kali, the harlot, is deposed.

The Greek myths have a theme of Olympians subduing or killing Titans and then expressing the Titan's nature or role in a more refined way.

Hephaistos is a god of craft, kindness and blacksmiths who lives in a volcano, so he's said to have beaten up a fire Titan and built his work shop with his anville resting on the Titan's head.

The seven chacra system had a Greek equivalent where the head meant spirituality, inteligence, refinement etc. but sometimes the myths portrayed this in a violent way.

[free thinker]

You will have to fill in the blanks yourself ;)

Worthy Blood doner?, it was customary at the period of institution of our Order for each Job Seeker to be required to sign his name with his blood on the North-East corner of the Mystical Stone before he could obtain the Sacred Word which it enshrines; are you prepared to sign your name on the Stone which is now presented to you?

Are you prepared to conform to the ancient ceremony of the Order?

Yes

Whence will you have the blood drawn?

My arm

...draws his dagger from his belt then with his left hand and takes hold of .....left wrist and with his right hand directs the point of dagger thereto.

Eminent Nurse?, the Patient? is ready.

Worthy Blood doner?, accepting your ready acquiescence as a sufficient proof of your devotion to our Order, we dispense with the observance of the custom (M. releases Blood doners? wrist, replaces his dagger in his belt and takes his place at Moss side) further than to require you to moisten the pen with your lips, and write your initials with it upon the Stone.

Huh?...sorry still dont make any sense!!...Sorry couldn't resist.:D:D

[grandsecretary]

No, it's a lie. ;)

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/Glovepuppet.jpg

Its a puppet ... !

[keystone]

Huh?...sorry still dont make any sense!!...Sorry couldn't resist.:D:DA pint? Thats an armful! Wheres the tea and bickies?

Cheers

Sorry - neither could I. I'll get me coat then.

[stevepenny]

Interesting, Steve. This rite does not occur in the ceremonial in use in the United States.

GS' assertion that blood-drinking occured in the "original ceremony" continues to be extremely unverified, and that's putting it charitably. GS does not have access to the "original ceremony", regardless of what he claims.

Hi Thelonious,

As I understand it the original templar ritual was not set in stone and not written down; being based on the oral tradition.

I think there is merit in the argument from the point of view that the practice relates to the last supper; but as for proof...alas not.

I've had the pleasure of spending time in the Sinclair (St Clair) archive and found nothing even remotely ritualistic.

[stevepenny]

Huh?...sorry still dont make any sense!!...Sorry couldn't resist.:D:D


:D:D:D Thanks, cheered me up no end :D:D:D

[free thinker]

:D:D:D Thanks, cheered me up no end :D:D:D

See what happens when freemasons leave it to non masons to fill in the blanks....:D

[sam bless]

In the Orders of the Knights Templar during the Middle Ages, real blood was drunk from real skulls. This is not done any more, wine is substituted

Interesting that the skull wasn't replaced with a less canabalistic wine glass

[stevepenny]

Interesting that the skull wasn't replaced with a less canabalistic wine glass

Think about it...... we are talking capacity here :)

[grandsecretary]

All postings by me on this thread have been suspended. I am sorry but I am precluded for legal reasons.

Peter Clatworthy
Grand Secretary
Grand Lodge of All England

[decim]

What is the capacity in cc's or inches³ ?

Think about it...... we are talking capacity here :)

[thelonious]

I think there is merit in the argument from the point of view that the practice relates to the last supper; but as for proof...alas not.



The Last Supper was taken with wine. The guy calling himself "Peter Clatworthy" claims that the Templars actually drank blood, with absolutely no evidence to back up such a farcical claim.

[grandsecretary]

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/snake.jpg
Hsssssssssssss!

[deathcultreject]

The Last Supper was taken with wine. The guy calling himself "Peter Clatworthy" claims that the Templars actually drank blood, with absolutely no evidence to back up such a farcical claim.

Well he does have a lineage from the old templar's stomping ground.

Does he have any reason to protect his sources?

[grandsecretary]

Well he does have a lineage from the old templar's stomping ground.

Does he have any reason to protect his sources?

Those who partake of the Holy Sacrament claim that it is wine changed into the blood of Christ, you wally thelonius! You did it again!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/catoutofbag.jpg

[deathcultreject]

Those who partake of the Holy Sacrament claim that it is wine changed into the blood of Christ, you wally thelonius! You did it again!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/grandsecretary/catoutofbag.jpg

So you're saying it's blood on the grounds that the holy communion has transformed into blood by the time it reaches the stomach?

No one's ever agreed to test that by putting laxatives in the communion wine.

Volunteers?

[grandsecretary]

Oh my God were you there? Seriously, when I was an altar boy that was EXACTLY what we did. The laxative anyway, not the test. We got to the "blood" before the priest did! Always was a rebel.

[deathcultreject]

Oh my God were you there? Seriously, when I was an altar boy that was EXACTLY what we did. The laxative anyway, not the test. We got to the "blood" before the priest did! Always was a rebel.

I stand corrected.

Did it really turn into laxative free holy blood?

The implications for disposing of nuclear waste are really quite exciting here.

[grandsecretary]

I stand corrected.

Did it really turn into laxative free holy blood?

The implications for disposing of nuclear waste are really quite exciting here.

Not when I was pouring it? Dynamite! They farted for a fartnight. ;)

[deathcultreject]

Not when I was pouring it? Dynamite! They farted for a fartnight. ;)

But the real blood of Christ might have done that as well, right?

Maybe I'm just looking too hard for a sign here :D

[grandsecretary]

But the real blood of Christ might have done that as well, right?

Maybe I'm just looking too hard for a sign here :D

What, make you fart for a fartnight? Maybe that WAS the sign? My dog is going to Heaven! :)

[diamond dogs]

No. I am beginning to feel like Eamonn Andrews.

They are signing their name to a new covenant with God, on to a white marble cube.

Very Crafty...should that not be Amon Andrews?

[grandsecretary]

Amen Andrews. :D

[stevepenny]

The Last Supper was taken with wine. The guy calling himself "Peter Clatworthy" claims that the Templars actually drank blood, with absolutely no evidence to back up such a farcical claim.

Hi Thelonious,

It's about the sacrements. The Blood and the Body of Christ.

[decim]

Is this ritual blood drinking by Templars/masons the origin of Bram Stokers Dracula epic?
Is the 'Order of The Dragon', Templar in origin or connected in any way?

Thanks MC
Hi Thelonious,

It's about the sacrements. The Blood and the Body of Christ.

[deathcultreject]

Is this ritual blood drinking by Templars/masons the origin of Bram Stokers Dracula epic?
Is the 'Order of The Dragon', Templar in origin or connected in any way?

Thanks MC

To the best of my knowledge, no.

Dracula's name came from Vlad Dracul (Vlad The Impaler)

'Drac' means cruelty as in 'draconian'

[stevepenny]

Is this ritual blood drinking by Templars/masons the origin of Bram Stokers Dracula epic?
Is the 'Order of The Dragon', Templar in origin or connected in any way?

Thanks MC

The ancient greeks and romans had creatures in their folklore (Empusae, The Lamia, and the Striges) that are considered to be the root of the vampire legend. Medieval Europe was I suppose the most fertile period for the development of what is now Dracula.

Bram Stoker's work was not the first vampire novel; that accolade falls to 'Sheridan Le Fanu' for his 1871 novel 'Carmilla', which featured a lesbian vampire.

One of the most common legends surrounding Dracula is the origin of the word. Wikipedia has this to say: "Historically, the name "Dracul" is derived from a secret fraternal order of knights called the Order of the Dragon, founded by Sigismund of Luxembourg (king of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, and Holy Roman Emperor) to uphold Christianity and defend the Empire against the Ottoman Turks. Vlad II Dracul, father of Vlad III, was admitted to the order around 1431 because of his bravery in fighting the Turks. From 1431 onward, Vlad II wore the emblem of the order and later, as ruler of Wallachia, his coinage bore the dragon symbol. The name Dracula means "Son of Dracul".

However, a simple check with a Romanian Source, throws this up (the text is in her own words, and is shortened somewhat):

When Vlad III become a ruler he called himself Vlad III Dragulea signing documents with this name. It means "the son of the Dragon", after his fathers name, Vlad Dracul (the Dragon). In old Romanian the suffix "-ea" meant "the son/daughter of"........

.....it's that simple: if the fathers name was Dracul, the son took Dracul-ea name to show his affiliation.

....the father took this name after he was accepted in the Order of the Dragon, a very exclusive knights order. Only princes and knights who demonstrated their skills and faith could be members of this Order.

The latin name of the Order was Societas Draconis, Draconis being the Latin name for Draco/Dragon Constellation.

.......do you see how similar are the Latin Draco with the Romanian Drac (the suffix "-ul" from Drac-ul means "the")? The confusion comes because in the old Romanian the whole family of mythic scary creatures (devils, dragons, demons) had a single word: "drac".

In order to assert his status, Vlad Dracul made the dragon a part of his house heraldry and he even made coins with the same dragon sign. No wonder why people named him Dracul.

.......the Impaler, Tepes (pronounced Tze-pesh) in Romanian, is a nickname given by Turks (Kaziklu Bey - The Impaler Prince) due to his habit to spread fear and terror between them by impaling them on stakes.

And this is also the name used by Romanian people in their Dracula stories. I can't tell you who gave him this nickname first. Turkish people or Wallachians? All we know is it was written first by Turkish chronicles. The Impaler nickname was written first in a Wallachian chronicle in 1574.

Also, doesn't mater if it's about Vlad Dracul or Vlad Dracula, few people know the etymology of the name, Vlad. It comes from the Slavic word "volod", what means "power". The word "volod" is the root for Romanian "voievod" (voivode in English), too.

Hope this helps

[deathcultreject]

Nice post StevePenny.

Decim, unfortunately I can't post the relevant text here, because no one else has put it online, and I don't want to impinge on the rights of a working writer to get paid for his labour . . .

. . . but there's a book called 'Seidways' by a German Occultist called Jan Fries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Fries

In the opening chapters he talks about a dragon cult all over Western Europe which drank blood and was (In his opninion) persecuted to extinction.

[decim]

Cheers Steve.

I was aware of the information in the 1st half of your post (bar, le fanu), the etymology of the various words is an eye opner though.

It is odd though that a son would need to affix any addition to his father's name.

The Draco constellation by 'coincidence' is situated overhead in that region.

As in the UK we are under Ursa Major.

Stars looking back at themselves.

That part of Europe & the Balkans has an even more tangled history than we.

So after the best part of intermittent warfare between 'Christian' Europe & the Muslims of one stripe or another, with borders & territory ebbing & flowing over the years.
What 'victory' has Islam achieved to be permitted the unmitigating colonisation of Europe, unopposed?

What is the big picture from your side of the street?

Oh yes, "voievod" cracking word, is that.

The ancient greeks and romans had creatures in their folklore (Empusae, The Lamia, and the Striges) that are considered to be the root of the vampire legend. Medieval Europe was I suppose the most fertile period for the development of what is now Dracula.

Bram Stoker's work was not the first vampire novel; that accolade falls to 'Sheridan Le Fanu' for his 1871 novel 'Carmilla', which featured a lesbian vampire.

One of the most common legends surrounding Dracula is the origin of the word. Wikipedia has this to say: "Historically, the name "Dracul" is derived from a secret fraternal order of knights called the Order of the Dragon, founded by Sigismund of Luxembourg (king of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, and Holy Roman Emperor) to uphold Christianity and defend the Empire against the Ottoman Turks. Vlad II Dracul, father of Vlad III, was admitted to the order around 1431 because of his bravery in fighting the Turks. From 1431 onward, Vlad II wore the emblem of the order and later, as ruler of Wallachia, his coinage bore the dragon symbol. The name Dracula means "Son of Dracul".

However, a simple check with a Romanian Source, throws this up (the text is in her own words, and is shortened somewhat):

When Vlad III become a ruler he called himself Vlad III Dragulea signing documents with this name. It means "the son of the Dragon", after his fathers name, Vlad Dracul (the Dragon). In old Romanian the suffix "-ea" meant "the son/daughter of"........

.....it's that simple: if the fathers name was Dracul, the son took Dracul-ea name to show his affiliation.

....the father took this name after he was accepted in the Order of the Dragon, a very exclusive knights order. Only princes and knights who demonstrated their skills and faith could be members of this Order.

The latin name of the Order was Societas Draconis, Draconis being the Latin name for Draco/Dragon Constellation.

.......do you see how similar are the Latin Draco with the Romanian Drac (the suffix "-ul" from Drac-ul means "the")? The confusion comes because in the old Romanian the whole family of mythic scary creatures (devils, dragons, demons) had a single word: "drac".

In order to assert his status, Vlad Dracul made the dragon a part of his house heraldry and he even made coins with the same dragon sign. No wonder why people named him Dracul.

.......the Impaler, Tepes (pronounced Tze-pesh) in Romanian, is a nickname given by Turks (Kaziklu Bey - The Impaler Prince) due to his habit to spread fear and terror between them by impaling them on stakes.

And this is also the name used by Romanian people in their Dracula stories. I can't tell you who gave him this nickname first. Turkish people or Wallachians? All we know is it was written first by Turkish chronicles. The Impaler nickname was written first in a Wallachian chronicle in 1574.

Also, doesn't mater if it's about Vlad Dracul or Vlad Dracula, few people know the etymology of the name, Vlad. It comes from the Slavic word "volod", what means "power". The word "volod" is the root for Romanian "voievod" (voivode in English), too.

Hope this helps

[decim]

Danke dcr.

Jan Fries must be of some measure of merit if Mandrake publish his work.

I might well see if there's a 'reader' copy of 'Seidways' knocking about at fleabay.

His homepage has some interesting glyphs not dissimlar to 'Cultus Sabbatai' artwork.

Nice post StevePenny.

Decim, unfortunately I can't post the relevant text here, because no one else has put it online, and I don't want to impinge on the rights of a working writer to get paid for his labour . . .

. . . but there's a book called 'Seidways' by a German Occultist called Jan Fries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Fries

In the opening chapters he talks about a dragon cult all over Western Europe which drank blood and was (In his opninion) persecuted to extinction.

[deathcultreject]

Danke dcr.

Jan Fries must be of some measure of merit if Mandrake publish his work.

I might well see if there's a 'reader' copy of 'Seidways' knocking about at fleabay.

His homepage has some interesting glyphs not dissimlar to 'Cultus Sabbatai' artwork.

Donkey shark to you too, pet.

As far as I know, Mandrake publishes the decent side of occultism.

Sex magic's cool, but no paedo subliminals.

[decim]

You have the wrong end of stick dcr.

Yes I know Mandrake are More than decent, I have had a few of their books by various authors.

I wasn't running Mr Fries down, I was being positive & crediting him with kudos for securing a publisher such as Mandrake.

Can't say I am a fan of SM though, it seems like a distraction from a good time, to me personally
.
I read for educational purposes only.

Donkey shark to you too, pet.

As far as I know, Mandrake publishes the decent side of occultism.

Sex magic's cool, but no paedo subliminals.

[decim]

Like wise regarding Mr Morgan, never heard or read anything to the contrary.

Mog comes well reccomended by everyone who's ever mentioned his name to me.

I'll edit that to add;

If you're into that stuff then some of your heroes might have done a ritual or two with me in my temple, about 5 feet from where I'm sitting now.

It's still a working chaos magic temple. No worries about that.

[stevepenny]

Cheers Steve.

What 'victory' has Islam achieved to be permitted the unmitigating colonisation of Europe, unopposed?

What is the big picture from your side of the street?



Morning Decim,

It's a bit early for me.....what was the question?

[decim]

A digression?

Morning Decim,

It's a bit early for me.....what was the question?

[stevepenny]

A digression?

What 'victory' has Islam achieved to be permitted the unmitigating colonisation of Europe, unopposed? - What is the big picture from your side of the street?

I think the answer is, Don't Know to the first question; which means I don't know the answer to the second either :)

I wasn't aware that Islam was trying to colonise Europe. This may be the picture 'down south' but certainly not here in Scotland.

I think we have more 'Poles' than Muslims at the moment.

[decim]

Lucky for Scotland that the view across the border & the North Sea is obscured then.

I think the answer is, Don't Know to the first question; which means I don't know the answer to the second either :)

I wasn't aware that Islam was trying to colonise Europe. This may be the picture 'down south' but certainly not here in Scotland.

I think we have more 'Poles' than Muslims at the moment.

[decim]

What exactly is going on this video Freemasons of DI?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzy9g_masonic-ritualsblood-drinking-marri_extreme

Masonic rituals,blood drinking, marriage filmed secretly in Turkey.
HERE IS THE TRANSLATION

Please introduce the cadidates to us.

Serdar Büyüküstün, his profession is electrical engineering.

Aykut Erensoy, his profession is electrical Engineering

Kenan Ali Akman, he is a businessman.

Understood. Please bring them inside.

Dear Misters, before all else we would like you to promise to us that,

whether you are accepted as a brother or not, after you are taken into what we call 'the room of contemplation', you will not mention anybody what you see and what you hear here, do you promise on your honour?

Mr. Erensoy?

Yes, I promise.

Mr. Büyüküstün?

I promise.

Mr. Akman?

Yes, I promise.

The inquisotor brother, let the candidates sit.

Mr. Büyüküstün, tell us what is the thing which was touched to your chest and which was made you feel with one of your hands?

Uhm... something metal... sword.

The meaning of the sword being touched to your chest is that you keep your promise otherwise you will be made to regret not keeping it and suffer pains for the rest of your life.

Let us avoid any mistakes, are you really the same people who wants to join us? Did you fill in the form without pressure from others and with your own free will and judgement? And you signed it?

Yes.

Let the cadidates commence 'the first journey'.

Who are these people? Those who seek the real light.

Misters, repeat the oath we made just now once again after me.

Before the symbol of the great architect of the universe and in front of the mason brotherhood, what I said was correct and I swear by it with all my sincerity.

I will not disclose any of our masonic secrets and what I have been shown and told here to anybody other than other brothers in a masonic lodge.

I will work towards the end of masonic goals.

I will obey the principles of the free masons' greater lodge.

I will regularly attend the meetings of the lodge which I will became a member of.

The first officer, brother, what do you want for the candidates?

The light of the scientific truth, dear master.

All other brothers who stand by the columns and decorate the true light.
What do you want for the candidates?

The light of the scientific truth, dear master.

Let the scientific truth be given on the 3rd touch of the hammer.

The swords which are pointed at you symbolises the fact that, other masons will defend you should you ever be attacked by others in the rest of your life.

THE SATANIC WORSHIP.

Only 33rd degree masons can attend.

The grand master drinks the goat's blood which is sacrificed in the middle of the room and prays in Hebrew language and ends the satanic worship ritual.

MASONIC WEDDING

A lodge in Istanbul. There is a masonic wedding ceremony which is constantly denied by the masons that it exists.

[decim]

It was held that the vital emanation from the blood of the sacrificed animals was invigorating to spiritual beings
(Odyssey, Book XI). But Plutarch is severe about it.

He affirms that the murderous and lascivious customs at the
festivals only served "to avert and appease the malice of certain evil spirits, or to satisfy the violent and raging
lusts of some that either could not, or would not, enjoy with their bodies or by their bodies." Such, he declared,
Iamblichus - Theurgia or The Egyptian Mysteries p34.

[hatshepsut]

"Cumans . were a nomadic Turkic people who inhabited a shifting area north of the Black Sea known as Cumania along the Volga River. They eventually settled to the west of the Black Sea, influencing the politics of Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Moldavia, and Wallachia..

Robert de Clari described Cumans as nomadic warriors, who did not use houses, or farm, but rather lived in tents, and ate milk, cheese and meat. The horses had a sack for feeding attached to the bridle, and in a day and a night they can ride seven days of walking, they go on campaign without any baggage, and when they return they take everything they can carry, they wear sheepskin and were armed with composite bows and arrows. They pray to the first animal they see in the morning .."

They were also known to drink horse's blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans

[decim]

Like the 'Kazarians' who run america?

"Cumans . were a nomadic Turkic people who inhabited a shifting area north of the Black Sea known as Cumania along the Volga River. They eventually settled to the west of the Black Sea, influencing the politics of Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Moldavia, and Wallachia..

Robert de Clari described Cumans as nomadic warriors, who did not use houses, or farm, but rather lived in tents, and ate milk, cheese and meat. The horses had a sack for feeding attached to the bridle, and in a day and a night they can ride seven days of walking, they go on campaign without any baggage, and when they return they take everything they can carry, they wear sheepskin and were armed with composite bows and arrows. They pray to the first animal they see in the morning .."

They were also known to drink horse's blood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans