krishna = jerusalem = hill of tara [Archive] - David Icke's Official Forums

synergy777

09-08-2007, 05:31 PM

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/284/bharatmatajh5.png

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7253/britanniawo0.jpg

bharatmahta = britannia, 3lions on india's national emblem 3 lions of england.remember asians are asitic, there were no lions/animals in europe.

http://www.viewzone.com/davidkoresh.html

India's God Krishna Was the King of Jerusalem!
By Gene D. Matlock

What a strange world in which we live! The Catholic Church has always known that Christianity did not begin with Jesus Christ, but yet it tries to make us think it did. St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."

Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 AD) said: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."

In Anacalypsis, The 17th century British orientalist and iconoclast, Godfrey Higgins, insisted that Christianity was already firmly in place in both the West and the East, many centuries before Jesus Christ was born. He said, The Crestians or Christians of the West probably descended directly from the Buddhists, rather than from the Brahmins. (Vol. 2, pp 438, 439.)

The existence of the Christians both in Europe and India, (existed) long anterior to the Christian era... (Vol 2, p. 202.) I think the most blind and credulous of devotees must allow that we have the existence of the Cristna of the Brahmins in Thrace, many hundred years before the Christian era-the birth of Jesus Christ. (Book X, p. 593.)

"Melito (a Christian bishop of Sardis) in the year 170, claims the patronage of the emperor, for the now so-called Christian religion, which he calls "our philosophy," on account of its high antiquity, has having been imported from countries lying beyond the limits of the Roman empire, in the region of his ancestor Augustus, who found the importation ominous of good fortune to his government." This is an absolute demonstration that Christianity did not originate in Judea, which was a Roman province, but really was an exotic oriental fable, imported from India, and that Paul was doing as he claimed, viz: preaching a God manifest in the flesh who had been "believed in the world" centuries before his time, and a doctrine which had already been preached "unto every creature under heaven." (Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions; T. W. Doane, p. 409.)

Religious historians have for hundreds of years struggled to find out how and why the stories about Jesus and Krishna, who were born 2,000 years apart, are so nearly identical.

Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah.
The future births of both messiahs were predicted ahead of time.
Christ was descended from Abraham
Krishna was the father of Abraham (Brahma).
Christ was at once a Koresh, a Hebrew, and a Yehudi.
Krishna was at once a Kurus, an Abhira, and a Yadava.
Christ was an incarnation of Yah-Veh.
Krishna was at once an incarnation of Vishnu and Shiva.
Christ's first name, Jesus, was Yeshua.
A title of Krishna, meaning "love; devotion," was Yesu. Even today, many Hindu parents name their sons, Yesu Krishna.
Both men were born of virgins and in a stable.
Krishna's mother was named Devaki.
Jesus mother was called Mary.
Krishna did not have an earthly father as such, but a protector, named Vasudeva.
Jesus did not have an earthly father as such, but a mortal protector named Joseph.
An evil king tried to kill Christ and Krishna when they were both infants.
To protect the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary took him to Maturai, Egypt.
To protect the infant Krishna, his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, took him to Mathura, India.
It was predicted that both men would die to atone for the sins of their people.
As you have probably noticed, they took refuge in places having almost identical names.
Both men preached to their people.
Christ was crucified and then resurrected. Krishna was killed by a hunter's arrow and impaled on a tree. Later, he returned to life.
Christ was crucified in Jerusalem.
Some Hindu scholars think that Krishna died in Jerusalem, having gone there when his coastal city of Dwarka sank under the sea. Others say he went to Iraq.
Christ appeared after his "death." Krishna appeared after his "death."
Both of them have a major holiday dedicated to them on December 25th.
Christ had a female admirer named Mary Magdalene. Krishna had a female admirer named Marya Maghadalena.

Fanatically sectarian Christians and Hindus alike militantly reject the idea that the stories of these two deities are related. The Christians accuse the Hindus of blurring their identities on purpose. Some even claim that the Devil himself is the culprit.The Hindus reciprocate accordingly. Unfortunately, neither side can prove or disprove anything. In this article, I will attempt to clear up this mystery once and for all.

The Hindu Equivalent of our Old Testament Story of Abraham.

The story begins with our Abraham or Brahma as the Hindus called him. His father was Lord Krishna; his brother was Mahesh a.k.a Maheshvara who would be our Moses (Heb: Moshe).

The Hindu triad consists of the Gods Brahma, the equivalent of our God, and Gods Shiva and Vishnu. Actually Shiva and Vishnu are one and the same deities. Together, they are Brahma (God). Today, in India, there are only two temples dedicated to God Brahma because the Hindus say mankind is not yet ready to worship such a lofty concept.

Hindu Proof That Jesus Is the Son of God!

The Bible tells us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, for Jesus' biblical names are Isa/Isha (Shiva), Yeshua (Skt. Yishvara, pronounced in Sanskrit as Yeshwara), Kristos, and Yesu, another name of Krishna . Even in India, Lord Krishna was and still is called Yesu Krishna and Kristna. These names prove to us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, thus making Jesus the begotten son of the Unbegotten-Brahma.

The preceding information shows us that the Hindus are as Christian as the Christians are. Morever, the Hindus can prove that Jesus was the son of God, but we have to accept this as a matter of faith only. Even so, there is no lack of Christian sects wanting the Hindus to "convert" to their way of thinking although we must credit the Hindus with the honor of proving to us that Jesus is the son of God. But the Hindus don't need to convert to the spiritual knowledge they bequeathed to us. They were "converted" thousands of years before our Jesus was born. I say, leave them be.

Since Krishna was not born of man, he was not actually the earthly father of Brahma and Mahesh. Therefore, he himself was the protector (Tara) of Brahma. In Sanskrit, Tara means "savior; protector." It is a term generally used with the gods Rudra, Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. Even our Old Testament says that the father (protector) of Abraham was Terah (Genesis 11:26.) The Bible tells us that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings. (Genesis 12:19-20.). The Hindu holy books also tell us that a blood relationship existed between them. The Puranas relate Sarasvati to Brahma and Vishnu. Most frequently, she is associated with Brahma. Her connection with him dates earlier than to any other God. She is portrayed mostly as his wife and occasionally as his daughter. When Vishnu's popularity in India increased, myths relating Saraswati to him appeared. (Ref: Sarasvati and the Gods; www.vishvarupa.com.) Therefore, Brahma or Vishnu would also have been the Tara (Terah) of Sarasvati because of her divine origins.

Brahm (Abraham) Sarasvati (Sarah)

Abraham or Brahma's home was the land of Haran (Genesis 1:4.) Haran was the coastal principality governed by Krishna. It was even named after him because Hara (Sun God) is another name of Krishna. Brahma/Abraham was 75 years old when he left Haran.

Just as Christ was crucified on a cross and then returned to life, Krishna, also known as Haran, was crucified on a tree and then returned to life. This fact appears to cause some confusion in The Bible. (Read Genesis 11:26-31).

There is also another "Haran" in India-today's state of Haryana. It is the region where Abraham decided to stop making idols and worship only one God. Brahmavarta, a region in Northeastern Haryana, is said to be the place where mankind was first created. (Varta=Dwelling.) Brahmavarta was the site of the Kuruksetra War between the Kurus and Pandavas, in which Lord Krishna distinguished himself. An ancient and holy river, now dried up, the Sarasvati, once flowed through Brahmavarta. The Hakra (the biblical Haggar) was a tributary of the Sarasvati. The relationships of these three geographical entities make sense. If Brahma provided the channel or bed for the Sarasvati river, Brahmavarta could easily have been the symbolical father or brother of Sarasvati. Hakra (Haggar), being a tributary of Sarasvati, depended on Sarasvati . So what were Abraham, Sarah, and Haggar? People, things, or places?

Map of India, showing Haryana

Map showing Brahmavarta

I have stated that the Bible mentions Haran and Haryana. The Hindu holy books also say that Brahma/Abrahan lived in Ur of the Chaldees. Ur was a Sumerian name for "town; city." Chaldee (pronounced Kaldee) derives from the Sanskrit Kaul, a Brahman caste, and Deva (demi-god). The North Indian Kauldevas worshiped idols representing their ancestors. According to the Hindus, Brahma married Sarasvati in Chaldea, the part that is now Afghanistan.

Northern Afghanistan was called Uttara Kuru and was a great center of learning. An Indian woman went there to study and received the title of Vak i.e. Saraisvati (Lady Sarah). It is believed that Brahm, her teacher, was so impressed by her beauty, education, and powerful intellect, that he married her. (The Hindu History, by Ashkoy Kumar Mazumdar; p. 48, in passim.) Lord Krishna, the divine father (Terah/T‚ra) of Brahma/Abraham, was the king of Haran, with the seaport of Dwarka as its capital.

In about 1900 BC, hundreds of thousands of native Indians emptied Northern and Central India and fled to the Middle East after Krishna's Dwarka sank under the water.

Krishna gathered his family together and fled either to the Middle East or to what is now Iraq. Only some gigantic natural disasters, such as earthquakes and floods could have caused such an exodus. It was at this time that the Saraisvati and the Indus changed their proper beds. The Saraisvati dried up.

Map showing the path of the Sarasvati before it dried up.

The drying up of the Saraisvati... led to a major relocation of the population centered around the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys... caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece. (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p. 14.)

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood."

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood." They think he was referring to the Noachide flood. He was referring to the time when God Krishna's Dwarka and Haran province, in today's Gujarat, sank under water in about 1900 BC. Abraham, Sarah, and their followers escaped southward, to the coastal ports of Kalyan and Sopara (Sophir or Sauvira), in Maharashthra. From there, they sailed northward to the Middle East. Sarah (Sarsvati) embarked from the port of Kalyan. At one time, Kalyan was located closer to the coast, but is now located more than 50 miles inland. Sarasvati is the patron saint of Kalyan. The patron saint of Sophir or Sauvira was Parasu Rama (possibly a name of our biblical Abraham/Brahma).

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Indian Author Paramesh Choudhury, author of The India We Have Lost, claims that Krishna and his family probably fled to Iraq. But I'm certain that they went to Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is derived from Sanskrit: Yadu-Ishalayam, meaning "The Holy Rock of the Yadu Tribe." Lord Krishna was a Yadu. The Moslems still revere this huge rock under the Dome of the Rock on Jerusalem Temple Mount.

Temple [top] Mount and Dome of the Rock. Abraham's tomb.

Until now, I have been wondering why Krishna's name did not appear in Jerusalem after his arrival there. Yet, the name of the king of Jerusalem, Melchizedek, the mentor of Abraham, did. I once thought that Melchizedek was the name of a certain person. I made this mistake by thinking that a prince and a son of a Kassite king, Melik-Sadaksina, was a supernaturally endowed prince, magician and spiritual giant. I thought he had accompanied Krishna, Abraham, and Sarah to the Middle East. Later on, I came to realize that the Sanskrit word Sadhaka applies to anyone who is an adept, a magician, one possessed of supernatural powers gained by worshipping a deity or by uttering magical chants.

I have additionally shown in this article that the New Testament words for Jesus all refer to Lord Krishna and his holy names. The early Christians were convinced that Melchizedek was just a prior incarnation of Jesus Christ, The remains of the Nag Hammadi manuscript entitled Melchizedek seem to confirm this. Melchizedek, king of Jerusalem and mentor of his son Abraham, was none other than ancient India's God Krishna. The early Christians thought that Jesus was a reincarnation of Krishna, for who else had the name Yesu Kristna, Isa, Krishna, etc.?

St. Paul states in the New Testament book of Hebrews:

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. (6:20.) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him...(7:1); For he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchisedec met him. (7:;10);...what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedec...(7:11); Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (7:17);.

Melchisedek (Krishna)

In closing this article, I want to mention the dissatisfaction I have always had with fanatical religious sectarians who yell that only they are right and that everybody else is wrong. They often insult, deprecate, mock, and reject those with whom they disagree, hoping to shut the formers' mouths. In many cases, these religious squabbles over suspected "differences" cause widespread bloodshed and misery in the world. I am a Roman Catholic and proud of it. But it grieves me when I hear priests, nuns and laity preach that anyone who isn't a Catholic is hell-bound.

The word [b]"Catholic" itself derives from the Sanskrit Ketu-Loka, meaning "Universal Leader." But how can a religion be "universal" if it is exclusive, locking out nations like India who not only gave Catholics their own bible, but even the Christ they worship? I have shown how nearly parallel our bible and the Hindu holy books concur in almost every way-linguistically, culturally, spiritually, etc. Even the incestuous relationship between Brahma and Sarasvati squares with that of Abraham and Sarah. India more than qualifies to be the real holy land of all mankind. The main differences between Christians and Hindus arise from the fact that the Hindu form of Christianity stayed behind in India, and that the western Christianity we know was exported abroad. Naturally, geographical separation has caused some variations in the two similar teachings, as well as culturally. Additionally, we have to keep in mind that for many hundreds of years, these stories were passed down orally, from father to son. Changes, embellishments, and varying opinions crept through the woodwork.

It is a strange anomaly that our Christian sects want to convert the Hindus to the same religious teachings the latter gave to the world and still practice!

I have amply demonstrated that all of us, no matter what our respective religions and nationalities, are grandchildren of India, Will this knowledge help keep us from tearing ourselves and the world apart?

Addendum:

If, until now, you are still unconvinced that Melchizedek was Lord Krishna, and that Jesus was an incarnation of Krishna (Melchizedek) as Paul himself explained, I have no other recourse but to give you solid proof directly from the mouths of the Hindus themselves! This should put an end to the question. It is a verifiable fact that one of the names of Krishna was Sadhaka. Being a king, Krishna would have been addressed as Malika (King) Sadhaka). If you are still doubtful, go to the web and type in Krishna Sadhaka. You'll instantly get all the proof you'll; ever need. Note: This article is a chapter from Gene's upcoming book, now in preparation: Searching for God -- Now a Valid Science! It will be released in autumn, 2007.

hill of tara/add in the above throne. celtic history of eire/ayra.

check the link, pics, maps.

synergy777

09-08-2007, 05:33 PM

http://www.salagram.net/VWHEurope.html

Vedik Europe

Bulgaria
Celtic links (England, Ireland, Scotland)
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Macedonia

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/photographic_evidence_of_vedic_influence.htm

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/art_photo_eight.htm

roma, romans, the dress, pantheon of gods, the roman women wearing saris, bindis on theri foreheads etc

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/art_photo_sixteen.htm

The British coronation chair in Westminster Abbey in London. It has lions at its four legs. (Only two front ones are seen in this photo.) This is because England's royal tradition is of Hindu origin. A Hindu king has to be crowned on a Simhasana, i.e. a Lion's Seat. The almond-colored square stone (seen in the shelf under the seat) is an ancient Hindu memento carried from Delhi, i.e. Indraprastha by Hindu warriors when they first set up throne in the distant British isles.

[The following is a different caption under a replica copy of the same photograph in the album.]

It is no coincidence that this coronation chair of British royalty in Westminster Abbey, London, is literally a Lion's seat (simhasan) as it is called in Hindu tradition. A cutpiece of an ancient Shiva Lingam serving several vicissitudes may also be seen reverently placed in the compartment under the royal seat. The sacred stone is known as the Stone of Destiny (Bhagyavidhata) alias stone of Scone (because it was brought from a church in the city of Scone in Scotland, to London in 1296 A.D.). But before being brought to Scotland, it was at the Hill of Tara (Taragarh) in Ireland. Thus, these two, i.e. the Simhasan & Shiva Lingam reaching back into immemorial antiquity, are significant proof of Britain having once been a Hindu country ruled by Hindu Kings. The lions are also of the Burmese and Mysorean Hindu design.

http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/tara/

The Hill of Tara, known as Temair in gaeilge, was once the ancient seat of power in Ireland – 142 kings are said to have reigned there in prehistoric and historic times. In ancient Irish religion and mythology Temair was the sacred place of dwelling for the gods, and was the entrance to the otherworld. Saint Patrick is said to have come to Tara to confront the ancient religion of the pagans at its most powerful site.

One interpretation of the name Tara says that it means a "place of great prospect" and indeed on a clear day it is claimed that features in half the counties of Ireland can be seen from atop Tara. In the distance to the northwest can be seen the brilliant white quartz front of Newgrange and further north lies the Hill of Slane, where according to legend St. Patrick lit his Pascal fire prior to his visit to Tara in 433 AD.

Early in the 20th century a group of Israelites came to Tara with the conviction that the Arc of the Covenant was buried in on the famous hill. They dug the Mound of the Synods in search of the Arc but found only some Roman coins. Official excavation in the 1950s revealed circles of post holes, indicating the construction of substantial buildings here. A new theory suggests Tara was the ancient capital of the lost kingdom of Atlantis. The mythical land of Atlantis was Ireland, according to a new book.

There are a large number of monuments and earthen structures on the Hill of Tara. The earliest settlement at the site was in the Neolithic, and the Mound of the Hostages was constructed in or around 2500BC. There are over thirty monuments which are visible, and probably as many again which have no visible remains on the surface but which have been detected using special non-intrusive archaeological techniques and aerial photography. A huge temple measuring 170 metres and made of over 300 wooden posts, was discovered recently at Tara. Only two monuments at Tara have been excavated - The Mound of the Hostages in the 1950s, and the Rath of the Synods at the turn of the 19th-20th Centuries. Click here to see a comprehensive map of the monuments on Tara. Click here for the Tara photo gallery.

Map of Tara

The Stone of Destiny
Sitting on top of the King's Seat (Forradh) of Temair is the most famous of Tara's monuments - Ireland's ancient coronation stone - the Lia Fail or "Stone of Destiny", which was brought here according to mythology by the godlike people, the Tuatha Dé Danann, as one of their sacred objects. It was said to roar when touched by the rightful king of Tara.

WHICH STONE?

Formerly located just north of the Mound of the Hostages (see map), it was moved to its current site after the Battle of Tara during the Irish revolution of 1798 to mark the graves of 400 rebels who died here. Some say the true Stone of Destiny was formerly the Pillow of Jacob from the Old Testament. They also claim it was flat and that it was moved from Tara by King Fergus of Scotland and was named the Stone of Scone which then became the coronation stone of British kings at Westminster Cathedral. Many historians accept that the present granite pillar at Tara is the true Stone of Destiny, but a number of people have argued that the Stone of Scone is in fact the real thing. One legend states that it was only one of four stones positioned at the cardinal directions on Tara - and it is interesting to note that the Hall of Tara, the ancient political centre of Ireland, is aligned North-South.

The following verse is from the Dindshenchas story about how Tara got its name:

Cathair Crofhind ('twas not amiss), was its name under the Tuatha De Danand, till there came Tea, never unjust, the wife of Erimon lofty of mien.

Round her house was built a rampart, by Tea daughter of Lugaid;
she was buried beyond the wall without, so that from her is Temair named.

The Seat of the Kings was its name: the kingly line of the Milesians reigned in it: five names accordingly were given it from the time when it was Fordruim till it was Temair. Read the rest here.

synergy777

09-08-2007, 07:09 PM

can't anyone check the validity of bharatmata/Brahmavarta/britannia. also the link between this and the hill of tara, the coronation chair being vedic and from ireland, now currently in westminister. like anto said, the prophecy of the celtic/aryan king to free eire etc.

we know indians started jerusalem, the krishna/krist connections, the kalki/hill of tara etc. can anyone please try to spot holes/inaccuracies, as i am stuck on this.

synergy777

10-08-2007, 11:51 AM

can someone please try to debunk this or confirm this?

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Peace & Blessings be upon you synergy777!:

Since you ask, "can someone please try to debunk or confirm this". OK.

First & foremost I, personally, do not ascribe to the theory Brahmanism,Yahwism(judaism) and Islam are one and the same doctrines.

To amplify my position, I shall provide salient points of doctrine from Messianic Yahwism that are in conflict with some of the above assertions.

Consider this: In the Book of Yahweh, the concept of re-incarnation simply does not exist. When one dies they sleep, dozens of scriptural verses confirm this. "ask nothing of the dead for they are asleep" You know,Rest in Peace.
Yahshua is most certainly not an incarnation of Father Yahweh, indeed all His teachings were presented as Yahwehs, not His. He never took credit to Himself for anything He did, rather, credit was given to Father Yahweh.

Father Yahweh declares we should fear no man as they can only kill the body. He tells us to fear Him, for only Yahweh can destroy both body and soul.
Yahweh owns all souls.

Rather than re-incarnation there are the two ressurections.

Yahshua did not exist before His birth through Miriam. The doctine of 'trinity',or pre-existant messiah are not of Messianic Yahwism.

Yahweh created the Torah, and lives according to the Laws of the Torah Himself. Rabbi (teacher)Yahshua taught the Torah(even to the Elders) and amplified it through His conduct.

The role of the Torah is complete instruction for development of robust Moral Character. To subjecate mankinds 'Carnal' mind, under His 'Higher'
Mind. These are 613 Laws of Peace.

At this time,Yahshua Messiah, and Yahsua Messiah only, has been risen from the dead, all other humans are sleeping until the two ressurections.

The phrase, found throughout scripture, "He walked with Yahweh", means the person began keeping the Laws of the Torah.

Melchizedek, was an individual who worked for Yahweh and instucted Abraham in the Laws of the Torah. To this very day his reputation is highly esteemed in Yahwehs Kingdom of Heaven and here on Earth.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

synergy777

10-08-2007, 02:11 PM

Melchizedek = archangel michael

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 02:27 PM

Peace & Greetings synergy777!:

Melchizedek, like Cornelius the Roman Centurion and the Ethiopian Eunuch
have scant, yet profound, information about them in the Book of Yahweh.

This we can be sure of. Melchizedek was King of Yeru-Salem(city of Peace), thus Melchizedek may be considered a 'King of Peace'. "Peace have they who keep the Laws". He was the Mentor of Abraham.

It is considered no small thing to be so esteemed by Yahweh and upon his ressurection(if he is mortal) will assume an office of very high importance.

Recall the qualitative and quantitative measure of righteousness is adherence to the Laws of Yahweh. 'Sin' is transgression of the Law.

I will examine the connection you propose and report back later.

Until then, kindest regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 03:52 PM

In closing this article, I want to mention the dissatisfaction I have always had with fanatical religious sectarians who yell that only they are right and that everybody else is wrong. They often insult, deprecate, mock, and reject those with whom they disagree, hoping to shut the formers' mouths. In many cases, these religious squabbles over suspected "differences" cause widespread bloodshed and misery in the world. I am a Roman Catholic and proud of it. But it grieves me when I hear priests, nuns and laity preach that anyone who isn't a Catholic is hell-bound.

Wise words.

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 04:14 PM

http://www.llewellynencyclopedia.com/article/187

'One remarkable observation made by an ancient Greek compared the Druids to the Magi of Persia and the Brahmans of India. In general terms there were many similarities; the Druids were a priest-craft which shared the same functions in Celtic society the Magi and Brahmans held in their cultures. All three had inherited many of the same archaic Indo-European ideas from their ancestors. Celtic religion—with its system of Druids, polytheism, rituals and incarnations of gods as famous heroes—is very similar to the religion of the Indians before the rise of Buddhism, the Krishna and Shiva cults, Jainism and other reform movements. Druidic rituals were similar to the rituals of the Zoroastrian religion of the Magi (the Mobads). Today, the Zoroastrian religion survives among Indians of Persian descent, (called Parsis), who have preserved it against Islamic oppression. The Mobads of the Parsis and Brahmans of Orthodox Hinduism are distant cousins of the Celtic Druids but unlike the Druids they survive, to this day, unbroken by mass conversion.'

Unfortunately he doesn't mention who this 'ancient Greek' is. Still working on it. Does anyone else know?

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 05:14 PM

Peace & Greetings synergy777 & fullfathomfive!:

Subject: Melchizedek- I have located 2 references by name, and a couple of inferences in old testament. Genesis 12:6- the mighty teacher..some translations refer to him as 'Tree of Moreh" Melchizedek, Yahwehs teacher of righteousness, and recall Abraham paid Tithes to him!

Genesis 14:18 the Priest of Yahweh most High

9 references by name in Book of Hebrews 5:6--7:21

Two Translations: Gesenius Hebrew & Chaldee Lexicon by Edward Robinson page 577...My Righteous King, also King of Righteousness

Also from the Hebrew & Chaldee Lexicon by Edward Robinson pages 1075-1077: Salem:to make whole, perfect, peace.

More on Hebrews later.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 05:39 PM

Hi Snoopsnuffleopagus

not sure I agree with the Book of Yahweh as a valid reference. What do you think? It's reliability does seem to have been called into question. But then again, I think everything should be called into question.

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 05:58 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

Empirical data is truely a rare commodity: The gravity well is in effect 24/7

The sun rises in the east etc.........Do the best with what we have.

My Baseline is the J(ah)-Text circa. 700bce. This is a vetted consensus amongst researchers that this text preceeds the E(lohistic)-Text, the D(euteronomic) Text and the P(riestly) Text.

Boil the Book down to Two Parts: Yahweh(vetted consensus, causal force, never refered to as a god) and the Torah. Add two more parts Yahshua Messiah and the Prophecies.

All textural scripture is then placed through these lenses and thus prevents inclusion of doctrines that would conflict or contradict.

Examples: Re-incarnation,Absolutely X Infinity, a doctrine not in this particular Book, likewise the doctrine the Torah(laws were done away with. In a prior post above I submitted two qualitative and quantitative definitions that are supported by hundreds of verses.

The primary translation I quote from(I have many translations) is the Book of Yahweh from yahweh.com

Alledgedly, this translation is considered worthy enough to be used at University level in Jerusalem. Examination of a couple of pages from this book are viewable at above website. Scholarship is readily evident.

Always prove to yourself, with the best resources you can procur.

As a lifelong classically trained musician(spanish guitar) I can discern Jazz when I hear it. Likewise doctrines attributed to the Book of Yahweh that are not in it.

Kindest Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 06:16 PM

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 06:39 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!.

Absolutely question everyone and everything. Before I did business with the House of Yahweh, I tasked my Charge D'Affairs to research all positive and negative reports about this organisation.

She,being a capable servant, provided me with a plethora of materiel of both values and then I pursued the evidence. My investigation proved to me conclusively these people were sincere and by all accounts were walking the talk they talked. I laid my money down and purchased about a dozen of their books.

Are they perfect, perhaps not, and I have noticed that when they discover an error, they themselves correct it and notify the public.They do not keep secrets, they are truely an open book and their desire was to produce as accurate a translation as humanly possible. Look at their detractors carefully, as I have, and the merits of their arguments diminish.

I do not make assumptions myself, but your phrasing tells me you have not investigated this book yourself, rather you are letting someone else inform you. 50$ american is a small gamble to find out for yourself.

Compare this translation to any other and it is like comparing T-Bone steak to a Hot dog. The onus is upon you to investigate and decide for yourself.

Kind Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 07:23 PM

No, I've have not read the Book of Yahweh, only excerpts. Does this make me unable to comment? If I could, I would read the original texts themselves.

Not sure how I got drawn into this, but anyway. The House of Yahweh seems to be a work in progress with it's own political/theological agenda. Publishing something as the most accurate truth, only to amend it when it is pointed out as wrong, is not good enough. From the first page of Genesis they make mistakes. This doesn't bode well for the rest of the translation.

I'm not having a go. Just don't put your faith in one version of events.

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 07:34 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

Indeed you are having a go. In debate one offers counterpoints, not just detractions. Do share this mistake in Genesis you noticed. Do offer comparitive Translations, such as Zondervans' Interlinear,or any other, do share information of one other organisation, on Planet Earth, that teaches the Laws of Yahweh, with correct titles and not through the lens of the Talmud.

I have posted north of 50 posts, I have not used the word 'truth' once, scholarly a few times. In above posts to synergy777 I quoted vetted and sourced lexicons. What in my posts in this thread do you disagree with concerning Melchizedek. Or my assertion re-incarnation is not a doctrine of Father Yahweh.

I await your reply. Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 07:49 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

The closest one can get to the 'original texts' would be zondervan publishers Interlinear Bible of the old testament, tis is sourced to a copy of the above mentioned J-Text they also have a greek new testament. Of course you may know of another. If so,please share.

Hey! colour me curious, is your avatar a photo of you? Are those Dreadlocks, a signature hairstyle of the Rastafari? Are you an adherent of Father Yahweh and His Laws?

With very kind regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

synergy777

10-08-2007, 07:59 PM

cool you have servants, charge d'affairs, is she some fine french filliy, french chicks have sexy accents, lol.

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 08:08 PM

Peace & Greetings synergy777!:

If she(employee) ever knew I refered to her as my servant, I would be up to my ass in alligators in a fast new york minute!

Hey! Stay enpointe! How 'bout that info on King Melchezidec. I would have progressed further but got sidetracked with monsieur fullfathomfive.

I wonder if he realises that whoever teaches or shares the Word of Yahweh is always reviled and reproached. We Messianic Yahwists are the most hated sect on Earth. Oh well.

Very Kind Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 08:21 PM

Hi Snoopsnuffleopagus

I'm not having a go. I'm disagreeing with you.

Page 1 (of Genesis) states the word 'them' in v. 28 is 'atam'. Wrong, it is 'otam'.

Also the word translated 'them' later in the verse is 'ham', but again the actual Hebrew word is 'hem'.

Then it states the word they translate as 'have rulership' is, in Hebrew, 'yaradu', but the Hebrew word is in fact pronounced 'yirdu'.

They can't even pronounce Hebrew correctly, nevermind translate it.

Why should I offer alternatives to so many errors on the first page?

I wonder if he realises that whoever teaches or shares the Word of Yahweh is always reviled and reproached. We Messianic Yahwists are the most hated sect on Earth. Oh well.

Self fullfilling prophecy.

ps. my charge d'affair resigned claiming lack of mental health.

I of Irish/Jamaican heritage which me cherish.

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 08:23 PM

Who dis' Melchezidec geezer?

snoopsnuffleopagus

10-08-2007, 08:43 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

Many thanks f3, I have see this criticism before, I forget the source you are quoting, please refresh my memory. Scrutinizing v:28 No word 'Them' appears in my text, circa 2002., no 'them' in any adjacent verses.It always helps tp provide Chapter #.

See for yourself, at yahweh.com they provide the entire first page of Genesis and first page of Yahchanan Ben Zabdyah. It is out in the open.

You half answered one of my queries, how about the rest?

Very Kind Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

10-08-2007, 11:31 PM

The Book of Yahweh was created by a psuedo christian cult based in texas. It's work is out in the open, which is why it is so widely criticised. Hawkins is an apocalyptic fraud.

Do offer comparitive Translations, such as Zondervans' Interlinear,or any other, do share information of one other organisation, on Planet Earth, that teaches the Laws of Yahweh, with correct titles and not through the lens of the Talmud.

You quote an evangelical text as the 'closest to 'original texts'? Quote me a text, of Planet Earth (?!), not through the lens of Hawkins.

What in my posts in this thread do you disagree with concerning Melchizedek. Or my assertion re-incarnation is not a doctrine of Father Yahweh.

I disagreed with your championing of the Book of Yahweh. You fail to answer any queries if you limit yourself to the Bible, whichever version.

snoopsnuffleopagus

11-08-2007, 12:10 AM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

Sir! With respect, I shall address your points, point by point and then perhaps you can shed some light on the subject of this thread.

Your reference of King Melchezidek as a geezer, by any measure was disrespectful.
The House of Yahweh( of which I am not a member, I admire them for scholarship, which critics with more discernment than you find favourably impressive)is far beyond your niggling reproach.The absence of source of your proxy(other than you)critics is quite telling.

#1. You 'claimed' they have a political theological agenda. This is patently FALSE. They are APOLITICAL. The thrust of their 'Theology' is to produce books using Correct names, Titles, and Translations, See J-Text, Zondervans, Anchor. You should actually read the section on the Bible at their website,yahweh.com, you would immediately realize your error and realise you, yourself have spoken FALSELY.

#2. This is not a 'Christian' sect and they are not 'Evangelical' Again you presented FALSE information to the readers. This is not to be considered enlightened behaviour.

#3. Zondervans Interlinear Bible.Not 'Evangelical' Another FALSEHOOD, One line of Hebrew, one line of English.
Nothing 'Evangelical' about this either. Again False.

#4. Doctrine of Yahweh as hated, you declared a self-fulfilling prophecy, this illustrates your lack of knowledge of Ten Roman Persecutions.

#5. You task me for limiting my information on King Melchezidek,as to His appearance in the Book of Yahweh, please enlighten me to another source.

You do not like the message, 'development of Moral Character' so you provide proxy(other) arguments of 'dim-witted assholes' that do not know what they speak of.

Except for your second post in this thread, it is safe to say you have provided more heat than light.

This is Synergy777s thread, by all means continue to post, I would suggest you remain enpointe, your arguments have been meritless and a waste of a valuable commodity, my time, thing about time once it is gone, it is gone forever. Use the time you have remaining more wisely.

I have a library of resources on these subjects, it is obvious yours need reinforcement. Your position has illuminated your own deficiencies on this subject

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

P.S. for your edification f3, the Book of Yahweh is the title of all the books commonly refered to as the Bible, now you know. Saddle Up!

P.P.S. Arguments by Proxy(other than you) are fraught with peril, your proxy agents used you to tell LIES about some very hard working and honourable people. This is not LOVE or Enlightened.

snoopsnuffleopagus

11-08-2007, 12:40 AM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!

Again, for your 'edification'(knowledge) the word 'PROXY' means 'someone, other than yourself', I do wish you would share the source of your information. They personify FALSEHOOD.

It is time to inform the readers of your knowledge on the subject of this thread.

Best regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

11-08-2007, 01:09 AM

Peace and Greetings snoopsnuffleopagus! (oh, the irony):

Sir! With respect, you have shed no light but a parroted diatribe on an old book for which I have no respect, including that old geezer Melchezidek. Please explain why he deserves respect, or religion for that matter.

#1 Hawkins has a political/theological agenda. He words the Word to his own ends. Reading what his website has to say on this would be pointless. TRUE.

#2 I said the Zondervans Interlinear Bible was evangelical, not the House of Yahweh. My opinion, as opposed to your unenlightened jumping to conclusions.

#3 see above. The interpretation is evangelical. TRUE.

#4 couldn't care less about the Ten Roman Persecutions. Not hard to see why a persecution complex leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

#5 this makes no sense. I queried the Book of Yahweh. You witter on about Melchezidek.

You do not like the message, 'development of Moral Character' so you provide proxy(other) arguments of 'dim-witted assholes' that do not know what they speak of.

Showing your true colours now. Your faux self-righteous pompous air does not become you. Nor is it LOVE or enlightened.

the Book of Yahweh is the title of all the books commonly refered to as the Bible, now you know. Saddle Up!

Really? Perhaps in your narrow neck of the woods. Or yahweh.com.

Kind regards (my arse): fullfathomfive

Ps. for your edification (I'll patronise you because I'm full of myself - I have a charge d'affair don't you know), I think for myself.

You quote a highly suspect source and I've not heard one thought from your own mind. Your time is worthless, as are your sources. TRUTH.

Synergy started this thread. He doesn't own it. So stop whinging.

snoopsnuffleopagus

11-08-2007, 01:29 AM

Peace & Greetings(really) fullfathomfive!

You critique that which you do not understand. Name one Author who would not be proud to author a Book such as Solomon Proverbs, Ecclesiates and so on, even the Five Lines of the Beatitudes.

You have been an excellent example of the 'Carnal"(Base,Low) mind ruling your Higher Mind. I am still waiting for you to weigh in on the subject of this thread, beyond the snippet you shared in your second post.

You have proven your HATRED(absence of love)for Father Yahwehs doctrine of Character Development, that is your choice to make. You lied when you said you were not having a go, that was your intent from the beginning. You just want to attack Yahwehs doctrines and supporters.

This isn't my first Rodeo F3.

Now. you have proven yourself to be a liar, and ignorant of the subject of this thread, your approach has been less than substantial, I can only desire your departure is more robust.

HELLO!!! Individual deficit of Moral Character is the root cause(causal factor) of all the problems facing humankind, the paradigm of Yahshua is an excellent example of Father Yahwehs doctrine of character development.

Can you illuminate another doctrine that compares. Thank You in advance.

Your agenda was obvious from your first post, you really are quite lame and of poor moral character. A Bloated & Inflamed Asshole! Lots of style no substance, Wise up!

Toodle-oo Sally!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

11-08-2007, 07:26 AM

Blimey, not such a great example of moral character yourself are you?

If you think I'm a liar, fair enough. I'm not the one claiming love & peace then shouting 'Bloated & Inflamed Asshole!'

Wise up yourself, and less hubris while you're at it.

(but then you probably think this is all part of my 'agenda' - your persecution complex strikes again)

snoopsnuffleopagus

11-08-2007, 11:47 AM

Peace & Greetings foolfathomfive!

If bullshit was music, you would be the worlds largest Brass Marching Band.

You must of missed the point of the 'Carnal'(base, low,reptilian)mind dominating your 'Higher' mind.

Any reader through the prior posts can notice I quoted a vetted and sourced Lexicon and one verse from the Book of Yahweh(the bible),yes, foolfathomfive, this is the correct title of all books known as the Bible. Using one verse from the Book of Yahweh inspired your deceitful foray into this thread. One verse.

For your further edification the word 'Bible' is derived from the Greek word "Biblio' and is defined as 'Book'. Books have titles, check this out for yourself, not all books are known as 'the book'. Every book that is refered to as the Bible, that has an 'Old Testament' or both the 'Old Testament & New Testament' is CORRECTLY TITLED the Book of Yahweh, not surprising to most people as this is the Creator Being who 'inspired' the Book to be written.

As for deeming you a 'Bloated & Inflamed Asshole' and your Proxy(other than you)Army of Anti-Yahwists,'Dim-Witted Assholes', I am well within my rights, The entire 'Milieu' of the Book ofYahweh is 'Iron Fist within a Velvet Glove'. Since your motive was founded upon deceit and Carnality, I was well within my reights to rebuke,Asshole! This is no way to go through Life.

I think my discernment was properly apt. Not one of your 'arguments' had any merit whatsoever. Rather you personified the point I presented in numerous posts concerning the Carnal Mind and the restriction of the Human Brain/Mind Utilisation, in your case substantially less than 20%.

Your posts in this thread proves these points, though I did not desire this, I still feel I should thank you for amplifying my points.

Thank You Very Much, Foolfathomfive!!!! smiley emoticon w/thumbs up

Attention!!: All members of the Anti-Yahweh Brigade and haters of the Book of Yahweh(the Bible), I shall begin a Thread in the Religion Department, milk & cookies will be availiable for refreshments. Do bring your best arguments,Proxy(other than yourself), or speak from your own understanding on a subject you have actually studied yourself!!

Of course all 'Christians' are cordially welcome as are all members of this Board.

With my Kindest and Most Sincere Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

11-08-2007, 12:16 PM

You must of missed the point of the 'Carnal'(base, low,reptilian)mind dominating your 'Higher' mind.

Practise what you preach. Pompous twit.

the Book of Yahweh(the bible),yes, foolfathomfive, this is the correct title of all books known as the Bible

Books have titles, check this out for yourself, not all books are known as 'the book'. Every book that is refered to as the Bible, that has an 'Old Testament' or both the 'Old Testament & New Testament' is CORRECTLY TITLED the Book of Yahweh

Perhaps in your 'milieu'. It is by no means universal. Pompous twit.

As for deeming you a 'Bloated & Inflamed Asshole' and your Proxy(other than you)Army of Anti-Yahwists,'Dim-Witted Assholes', I am well within my rights, The entire 'Milieu' of the Book ofYahweh is 'Iron Fist within a Velvet Glove'. Since your motive was founded upon deceit and Carnality, I was well within my reights to rebuke,Asshole! This is no way to go through Life.

Again, perhaps in your 'milieu'. Pompous twit.

I think my discernment was properly apt. Not one of your 'arguments' had any merit whatsoever. Rather you personified the point I presented in numerous posts concerning the Carnal Mind and the restriction of the Human Brain/Mind Utilisation, in your case substantially less than 20%.

I wish your discernment would extend to your own persistant use of the so-called 'carnal mind'. You reek of contradiction. Pompous twit.

Do bring your best arguments,Proxy(other than yourself), or speak from your own understanding on a subject you have actually studied yourself!!

...backed up by a clouded lens full of mistakes, contradictions, a pre-established viewpoint, carefully selected proxies that agree with your mindset and a nice line in patronising sarcasm. Pompous twit.

edit

12-08-2007, 05:37 PM

God created humankind 1 in his own image, in the image of God he created them, 2 male and female he created them. 3
2 tn The third person suffix on the particle אֵת (’et) is singular here, but collective.

God blessed 1 them and said 2 to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it! 3

08762 Stem - Piel See 08840 (http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=08840)
Mood - Imperfect See 08811 (http://net.bible.org/strong.php?id=08811)
Count - 2447

08840 Piel

a) Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action.

Qal Piel

he broke he broke to pieces, he smashed
he sent he sent away, he expelled...

08811 Imperfect

The imperfect expresses an action, process or condition which is
incomplete, and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action
in the past;....
http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=27
Hi Snoopsnuffleopagus

I'm not having a go. I'm disagreeing with you.

Page 1 (of Genesis) states the word 'them' in v. 28 is 'atam'. Wrong, it is 'otam'.

Also the word translated 'them' later in the verse is 'ham', but again the actual Hebrew word is 'hem'.

Then it states the word they translate as 'have rulership' is, in Hebrew, 'yaradu', but the Hebrew word is in fact pronounced 'yirdu'.

They can't even pronounce Hebrew correctly, nevermind translate it.

Why should I offer alternatives to so many errors on the first page?

Self fullfilling prophecy.

ps. my charge d'affair resigned claiming lack of mental health.

I of Irish/Jamaican heritage which me cherish.
Lexicon / Concordance for Gen 1:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Gen&chapter=1&verse=28&version=KJV#28)
A_Th_M--Aleph-Tau-Mem
Pronouns and prepositions - them in Hebrew
hebrewonline.com (http://www.hebrewonline.com/Hebrew_Words/324.htm)
them - otam / otan - אוֹתָם / אוֹתָן
unbeleiving !! HAM !? ..or just a tom-
ah, maybe...2 (http://www.teamonderwijs.nl/?pag=78)

Th-O-M
http://www.asiatravel-cambodia.com/images/webphotos/photos/Detail-angkor-thom-alt2.jpgAngkor Thom (http://www.asiatravel-cambodia.com/angkor-wat-map/angkorthom.htm)

The word “Angkor” derives from a Sanskrit word “Nagara” meaning the “Holy City”, so Angkor Thom means “Big Holy City”. In the 12th and 13th centuries Angkor Thom was larger than any european city, with a total population over over a million people and domonated South East Asia.

Angkor Thom covers 12 square kilometers surrounded by laterite walls and moats. It was constructed in the late 12th century by King Jayavarman VII surrounding and encompassing some earlier temples of the 10th and 11th centuries.

All moats, in principle, represent the cosmic ocean, but the moat of Angkor Thom, apart from that, played a vital role of defense in the ancient time and was filled with thousands of crocodiles to protect the city. The walls functioned also for defense. The earthen embankments inside serve two functions: 1. They support the walls so that the walls could not be pushed inward 2. they were used for the King’s soldiers to walk on the top to safeguard the city.

There are five entrances (gates) to the city, each is decorated with four giant faces in cardinal point which first represent the face of Brahma, one of the three main gods in Hindu religion, second represent the face of Buddha, the face of the king, and also means compassion, sympathy, charity and tolerance that the king had for his people. Angkor Thom was built over an existing city called Yasodharapura of the 10th century.

Thank you Jamaikan man for - Them and Ham, ( Ham-sa?)
well > Physical Manifestion Under Most Stringent Testing (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?page=1&showdate=8/12/07&messageid=423399&mpage=1)

fullfathomfive

12-08-2007, 06:06 PM

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txw/bereshi2.htm

1:17 God placed them in the heavenly sky to shine on
the earth, Vayiten otam Elohim birekia hashamayim leha'ir
al-ha'arets.

1:28 God blessed them. God said to them, 'Be fertile
and become many. Fill the land and conquer
it. Dominate the fish of the sea, the birds
of the sky, and every beast that walks the land. Vayevarech otam Elohim vayomer lahem Elohim peru
urevu umil'u et-ha'arets vechiveshuha uredu
bidegat hayam uve'of hashamayim uvechol-chayah
haromeset al-ha'arets.

See: http://www.yahweh.com/boygen1.html for comparison.

synergy777

12-08-2007, 06:45 PM

http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/our-druid-cousins/

Our Druid Cousins
By Peter Berresford Ellis
Hinduism Today 2/2000

Meet the brahmins of ancient Europe, the high caste of Celtic society.

The Celtic people spread from their homeland in what is now Germany across Europe in the first millennium bce. Iron tools and weapons rendered them superior to their neighbors. They were also skilled farmers, road builders, traders and inventors of a fast two-wheeled chariot. They declined in the face of Roman, Germanic and Slavic ascendency by the second centuries bce. Here Peter Berresford Ellis, one of Europe’s foremost experts of the Celts, explains how modern research has revealed the amazing similarities between ancient Celt and Vedic culture. The Celt’s priestly caste, the Druids, has become a part of modern folklore. Their identity is claimed by New Age enthusiasts likely to appear at annual solstice gatherings around the ancient megaliths of northwest Europe. While sincerely motivated by a desire to resurrect Europe’s ancient spiritual ways, Ellis says these modern Druids draw more upon fanciful reconstructions of the 18th century than actual scholarship.

The Druids of the ancient Celtic world have a startling kinship with the brahmins of the Hindu religion and were, indeed, a parallel development from their common Indo-European cultural root which began to branch out probably five thousand years ago. It has been only in recent decades that Celtic scholars have begun to reveal the full extent of the parallels and cognates between ancient Celtic society and Vedic culture.

The Celts were the first civilization north of the European Alps to emerge into recorded history. At the time of their greatest expansion, in the 3rd century bce, the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west, through to the central plain of Turkey in the east; north from Belgium, down to Cadiz in southern Spain and across the Alps into the Po Valley of Italy. They even impinged on areas of Poland and the Ukraine and, if the amazing recent discoveries of mummies in China’s province of Xinjiang are linked with the Tocharian texts, they even moved as far east as the area north of Tibet.

The once great Celtic civilization is today represented only by the modern Irish, Manx and Scots, and the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. Today on the northwest fringes of Europe cling the survivors of centuries of attempted conquest and “ethnic cleansing” by Rome and its imperial descendants. But of the sixteen million people who make up those populations, only 2.5 million now speak a Celtic language as their mother tongue.

The Druids were not simply a priesthood. They were the intellectual caste of ancient Celtic society, incorporating all the professions: judges, lawyers, medical doctors, ambassadors, historians and so forth, just as does the brahmin caste. In fact, other names designate the specific role of the “priests.” Only Roman and later Christian propaganda turned them into “shamans,” “wizards” and “magicians.” The scholars of the Greek Alexandrian school clearly described them as a parallel caste to the brahmins of Vedic society.

The very name Druid is composed of two Celtic word roots which have parallels in Sanskrit. Indeed, the root vid for knowledge, which also emerges in the Sanskrit word Veda, demonstrates the similarity. The Celtic root dru which means “immersion” also appears in Sanskrit. So a Druid was one “immersed in knowledge.”

Because Ireland was one of the few areas of the Celtic world that was not conquered by Rome and therefore not influenced by Latin culture until the time of its Christianization in the 5th century ce, its ancient Irish culture has retained the most clear and startling parallels to Hindu society.

Professor Calvert Watkins of Harvard, one of the leading linguistic experts in his field, has pointed out that of all the Celtic linguistic remains, Old Irish represents an extraordinarily archaic and conservative tradition within the Indo-European family. Its nominal and verbal systems are a far truer reflection of the hypothesized parent tongue, from which all Indo-European languages developed, than are Classical Greek or Latin. The structure of Old Irish, says Professor Watkins, can be compared only with that of Vedic Sanskrit or Hittite of the Old Kingdom.

The vocabulary is amazingly similar. The following are just a few examples:

Old Irish - aire (noble) | arya (freeman), Sanskrit
Old Irish - naib (good) | noeib (holy), Sanskrit
Old Irish - bodhar (deaf) | badhira (deaf), Sanskrit
Old Irish - nemed (respect) | names (respect), Sanskrit
Old Irish - righ or rí* (king) | raja (king), Sanskrit

[*Corrected from the original to what I believe is actually correct. - Aine]

This applies not only in the field of linguistics but in law and social custom, in mythology, in folk custom and in traditional musical form. The ancient Irish law system, the Laws of the Fénechus, is closely parallel to the Laws of Manu. Many surviving Irish myths, and some Welsh ones, show remarkable resemblances to the themes, stories and even names in the sagas of the Indian Vedas.

Comparisons are almost endless. Among the ancient Celts, Danu was regarded as the “Mother Goddess.” The Irish Gods and Goddesses were the Tuatha De Danaan (”Children of Danu”). Danu was the “divine waters” falling from heaven and nurturing Bí*le, the sacred oak from whose acorns their children sprang. Moreover, the waters of Danu went on to create the great Celtic sacred river–Danuvius, today called the Danube. Many European rivers bear the name of Danu–the Rhí´ne (ro-Dhanu, “Great Danu”) and several rivers called Don. Rivers were sacred in the Celtic world, and places where votive offerings were deposited and burials often conducted. The Thames, which flows through London, still bears its Celtic name, from Tamesis, the dark river, which is the same name as Tamesa, a tributary of the Ganges.

Not only is the story of Danu and the Danube a parallel to that of Ganga and the Ganges but a Hindu Danu appears in the Vedic story “The Churning of the Oceans,” a story with parallels in Irish and Welsh mytholgy. Danu in Sanskrit also means “divine waters” and “moisture.”

In ancient Ireland, as in ancient Hindu society, there was a class of poets who acted as charioteers to the warriors They were also their intimates and friends. In Irish sagas these charioteers extolled the prowess of the warriors. The Sanskrit Satapatha Brahmana says that on the evening of the first day of the horse sacrifice (and horse sacrifice was known in ancient Irish kingship rituals, recorded as late as the 12th century) the poets had to chant a praise poem in honor of the king or his warriors, usually extolling their genealogy and deeds.

Such praise poems are found in the Rig Veda and are called narasamsi. The earliest surviving poems in old Irish are also praise poems, called fursundud, which trace back the genealogy of the kings of Ireland to Golamh or Mile Easpain, whose sons landed in Ireland at the end of the second millennium bce. When Amairgen, Golamh’s son, who later traditions hail as the “first Druid,” set foot in Ireland, he cried out an extraordinary incantation that could have come from the Bhagavad Gita, subsuming all things into his being.

Celtic cosmology is a parallel to Vedic cosmology. Ancient Celtic astrologers used a similar system based on twenty-seven lunar mansions, called nakshatras in Vedic Sanskrit. Like the Hindu Soma, King Ailill of Connacht, Ireland, had a circular palace constructed with twenty-seven windows through which he could gaze on his twenty-seven “star wives.”

There survives the famous first century bce Celtic calendar (the Coligny Calendar) which, as soon as it was first discovered in 1897, was seen to have parallels to Vedic calendrical computations. In the most recent study of it, Dr. Garret Olmsted, an astronomer as well as Celtic scholar, points out the startling fact that while the surviving calendar was manufactured in the first century bce, astronomical calculus shows that it must have been computed in 1100 bce.

One fascinating parallel is that the ancient Irish and Hindus used the name Budh for the planet Mercury. The stem budh appears in all the Celtic languages, as it does in Sanskrit, as meaning “all victorious,” “gift of teaching,” “accomplished,” “enlightened,” “exalted” and so on. The names of the famous Celtic queen Boudicca, of ancient Britain (1st century ce), and of Jim Bowie (1796-1836), of the Texas Alamo fame, contain the same root. Buddha is the past participle of the same Sanskrit word–”one who is enlightened.”

For Celtic scholars, the world of the Druids of reality is far more revealing and exciting, and showing of the amazingly close common bond with its sister Vedic culture, than the inventions of those who have now taken on the mantle of modern “Druids,” even when done so with great sincerity.

If we are all truly wedded to living in harmony with one another, with nature, and seeking to protect endangered species of animal and plant life, let us remember that language and culture can also be in ecological danger. The Celtic languages and cultures today stand on the verge of extinction. That is no natural phenomenon but the result of centuries of politically directed ethnocide. What price a “spiritual awareness” with the ancient Celts when their culture is in the process of being destroyed or reinvented? Far better we seek to understand and preserve intact the Celt’s ancient wisdom. In this, Hindus may prove good allies.

The Song of Amairgen the Druid

I am the wind that blows across the sea; I am the wave of the ocean;
I am the murmur of the billows; I am the bull of the seven combats;
I am the vulture on the rock; I am a ray of the sun; I am the fairest of flowers;
I am a wild boar in valor; I am a salmon in the pool; I am a lake on the plain;
I am the skill of the craftsman; I am a word of science;
I am the spearpoint that gives battle;
I am the God who creates in the head of man the fire of thought.
Who is it that enlightens the assembly upon the mountain, if not I?
Who tells the ages of the moon, if not I?
Who shows the place where the sun goes to rest, if not I?
Who is the God that fashions enchantments–
The enchantment of battle and the wind of change?

Amairgen was the first Druid to arrive in Ireland. Ellis states, “In this song Amairgen subsumes everything into his own being with a philosophic outlook that parallels the declaration of Krishna in the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita.” It also is quite similar in style and content to the more ancient Sri Rudra chant of the Yajur Veda.

Peter Berresford Ellis is one of the foremost living authorities on the Celts and author of many books on the subject, including “Celt and Roman,” “Celt and Greek,” “Dictionary of Celtic Mythology” and “Celtic Women.” PETER BERRESFORD ELLIS, 30 GRESLEY ROAD, LONDON, N19 3JZ, ENGLAND

Source : A Tribute to Hinduism

synergy777

13-08-2007, 12:31 PM

http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/
http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/apion/

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS CONTRA APION
chapter 1,verse 22:16
http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/apion/view.cgi?book=1&chapter=1

This man then, [answered Aristotle,] was by birth a Jew, and came from Celesyria; these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

BY DR. SAMAR ABBAS, ALIGARH, INDIA

EDITORIAL, Jul 14 (VNN) — A Review

[Editor's note: some special characters do not properly display in web browsers]

In 1979 the Oriental Institute at Baroda published a paper entitled "The Hebrews belong to a branch of Vedic Aryans." This was a follow-up to a previous article on the same topic published by the same author, Prof. Madan Mohan Shukla, in the Vishveshvaranand Indological Journal in 1976. The basic thesis of these papers is that the Hebrews represent an offshoot of Vedic Brahmins. It may be instructive to review Shukla's papers as they serve to illustrate the common origin of the Jews and Brahmins. As Shukla's papers are very difficult to obtain both within and outside India, and are virtually out of reach for laypersons, I am reproducing extensive tracts from them for reference purposes.

1. VOCABULARY

One of Shukla's strong points is the considerable vocabulary shared by Hebrew and Sanskrit. Indeed, M.M.Shukla has concentrated on providing a large list of of words which are common to Hebrew and Sanskrit. Thus, he provides the following examples:

"The word, 'Sva?' means 'heaven' or 'paradise' in Sanskrit. This word, written as 'svam' may assume the form, 'Sam-yim' which means, 'sky' and/or 'heaven' in Hebrew, while it may become 'Asvah' under the influence of the principle of vowelization. Sometimes, the sound 'a' may change to 'ya' and thus, the derivation, 'Asvah' or 'Asuah' may change to 'Yasuah' which is nearer to a Hebrew word, 'Yasuah' (= salvation).... It may be mentioned that 'Appa' is a Marathi word. The derivation 'Appa' may further change to 'Abba' (p=b), which is a Hebrew word... Now let us consider the root-word 'Svas'. It may change first to 'Vas' and thence to Bas or 'Bes' which is a Hebrew word though with different meaning, ie. 'daughter'." (Shukla 1979, p.45)

He also suggests that Surios gave rise to Kurios, or Kur (ibid., p.48) Shukla notes that 'Abru' and 'Uparohita' exist in Persian and Avadhi Hindi, distinct from Skt. bhru and purohita (Shukla 1979, p.44)

Describing the process of vowelization, he notes, "the Punjabis would pronounce the words station, putra and K???a as satation, puttar, and Kishan respectively." (Shukla 1976, p.41)

Building upon this, he writes, "the word Joasava may be transformed into Joasaph, from which the derivation of the word Joseph is a simple matter. Thus we can see that the Biblical name Joseph can be derived from an ancient Indian name, jayasva." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

Continuing in this line, he notes, "Adam. This word seems to have been derived from the Sanskrit word A-dityam, from the Vedic pronunciation of this word as A-ditiam." (Shukla 1976, p.45)

In addition, "The meaning of the root-word as in Sanskrit is 'to eat', and 'to enjoy' or 'to be merry'. Hence if we pronounce the term upasana as 'upasana', then it would mean, 'Eating before God', and 'Being merry before God.'" (Shukla 1976, p.46)

Another striking similarity exists with regard to script: "Now, the Hebrew script, like those of Arabic and Kaithi, does not use the word signs to indicate the pronunciation of its consonants." (Shukla 1976, p.44).

2. PRIESTHOOD

One of the strongest points for a common Brahmin-Jewish origin is the fact that both communities have been endogamous priests from the earliest times of their recorded history: "Chosen People of God: It may also be observed in this respect that the Hebrews, as well as their Indian counterparts, Brahmins, consider themselves as the "Chosen People of God". The Hebrews started their corporate career in history as a "Kingdom of Priests" (Exodus/19/6). Likewise, the Brahmins have also been a "Community of Priests" since the dawn of their history." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

The colonialists were the first to notice the similarity between Brahmins and Jews, namely that Brahma not only corresponds with Abraham, but that his consort Sarasvati corresponds to Sarah. Shukla also notes the story in Genesis 29, 32-33, 20/12.

3. BIBLICAL FIGURES

Citing his own work 'The Holy Bible - A Source book of Ancient indian History', a paper submitted to All Indian Oriental Conference (1976) held at Dharwar, he notes that "We have already tried to equate Brahma, Sarasvati, Manu and Bali with the Biblical Abraham, Sarai, Noah and Peleg." (Shukla 1979, p.53) Not only that, but Shukla holds that the Jewish Laban and Brahmanic Lavana coincide:

"It is noteworthy to note in the above context that the sister of Lavana on the Indian side becomes the daughter of Laban in the Biblical account. It may also be mentioned in this respect that while Sarasvati is said to be the daughter of Brahma in accordance with the Indian tradition, her Biblical counterpart, Sarai, has been described as the sister of Abraham. In this context, we would like to remind our readers of a previous discussion of 'Svas', the root-word of the Sanskrit 'svasar' (sister) which becomes 'Bes' to mean 'daughter' in the Hebrew language." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

Equally striking is Shukla's derivation of 'Mary' from 'Matri': "the words 'Mary' and 'Mariam' could be derived from a Sanskrit word, mat?, meaning 'mother'." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

"Similarly the word, 'Mari' or 'Mary' may also be derived from Sanskrit 'Matri'." [ and Shukla notes that Mary is worshipped as a mother goddess. ]... "The word Adam is derived from a Hebrew word, 'Adamah' which means 'the earth'. Similarly the Skt. 'Adityam' is derived from 'Aditi' which also means the Earth. Hence the primary meaning of both the words, 'Adam' and Adityam would be 'earthly one'. (Shukla 1979, p.47)

His papers provide detailed etymologies of the word 'Abraham':

"The word 'Adam' can also be derived from Sanskrit 'Adityam' with the help of the rule of haplology also. Haplology is the name given by Bloomfield to the phenomenon where of the two similar syllables following each other, one is dropped. The word 'Adityam' will change to 'Adam' under the influence of this rule in the following way: -

Adityam -> Adatam -> Adadam (t = d) = Adam (Haplology)

It would be interesting to note here that the Sanskrit 'Adityam', represented by the same rule would change to 'Aton':

Adityan -> Aditan -> Atadan (d=t) -> Atan ->: Aten /Aton (Shukla 1979, p.48) This is interesting, for it provides an Indo-European derivation for the Egyptian God Aton.

Moreover, "the Vayu Purana mentions Manu as Bharata" (Shukla 1979, p.56)

Intriguing is Shukla's derivation of Rcam: "We may consider another Sanskrit word, 'Rcam' which may become Arcam and then 'Aleichem' (r=l) which is a Hebrew word." (Shukla 1979, p.46)

Shukla also provides certain other etymologies, and repeatedly derives Adam from Adityam, and Mary from Matr (Shukla 1979, p.46) He also postulates a derivation of Gr. Adonis from Aton, and notes that Heb Adonay = Lord. (ibid., p.48).

"It can be shown that the Hebrew word, 'Elohim' can be derived from the Skt. 'Brahma':

Brahma -> Ibrahim (rule of vowelization) -> Ibrahim (rule of stress) -> Ilohim (r=l) -> Elohim

Hence the expression 'Adonay Elohim; becomes equivalent to the Skt. 'Aditya-Brahma'." (Shukla 1979, p.48)

Furthermore, he notes, "Savit? = Savitru (? -> ru) -> Sabiru (v=b) = Habitru (s=h)" -> Habiru = Habiru = PR Egyptian, Apiru, Ibru, Ibri, Ibrin." (Shukla 1979, p.51)

Another etymology is: (Shukla 1979, p.53)

Iksaku -> Issvahu (no k) -> Issahu (va -> a) -> Ishak, Isaac.

Further, Shukla writes, "It may also be mentioned here that Satarupa, the name of the daughter-wife of Manu, is also one of the names of the daughter-consort of Brahma" (Shukla 1979, p.53) From this we may note the case of Noah's daughters and Manu, the flood survivor.

Another interesting derivation is also supplied: "K???a -> Christ. We know that the Bengali pronounciation of the word Kr.s.n.a is Kriste. 'Christo' or 'Christ' is only a matter of spelling." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

Moreover, "Yehasua has been derived from a Sanskrit word, Yasasva." (Shukla 1976, p.42)

It would also appear that Jehova is also related to a Sanskrit word: "This word [Jehova] could, however, be equated with the Vedic word jahvuh, which may be considered, grammatically, both as an adjective and a proper noun. In the former sense, the word, jahv.uh has been used at least four times in the R.gveda. Thus, it has been used as an {p.44} attribute of Lord Agni (RV.3.1.12), as an attribute of Lord Indra (RV 8.13.24), as an attribute of Lord Soma (RV 9.75.1) and as an attribute of Lord Agni (RV 10.110.3)."

4. BHARATA, IBHRI, IBERIA HEBREWS

One of Shukla's most striking points is his discovery of an etymological connection between the words 'Hebrew' and 'Bharat':

"Hebrews and Rigveda: Let us first understand the real nature of the Rig Veda. As observed by Sri D.P.Mishra, "Both Devdasa and Sudasa belonged to the tribe of the Bharatas or T?tsu-Bharatas and won a number of victories over their Dasa and Aryan enemies. It is their wars and victories which have been repeatedly sung by their priests in the Rig Veda, and we have therefore no hesitation in naming it as (p.56) 'Bharata-Veda' or the Veda of the Bharatas and the Bharatas themselves as the Rigvedic Aryans. If the Rigveda supposed to deal with the entry of the Aryans into India, we would like to argue that it deals only with the entry of Bharatas ..." 34 [34. Studies in the Proto-History of India", D.P.Mishra, p.133]" (Shukla 1979, p.55)

Further, "Bharata was the first king according to Jaina traditions" (Shukla 1979, p.56)

"Now let us consider the word "Bharata'. This word is formed from the Sanskrit 'Bhara', which under the sway of the rule of vowelization (Prothesis), may assume the form 'Ibhar', 'Iber', 'Ibhray', 'Ibhri', 'Ibri', 'Ibrini' etc. which have been equated with the term Hebrew." (Shukla 1979, p.56) He then continues:

"[T]he Hebrews may be related to the Rigvedic Aryan tribes of Bharatas ... In this way, we can confidently say that the statement 'Rigveda is essentially the Bharata-Veda', means that it is the 'Veda of the Hebrews'. It is hence no wonder to find close similarity between the Rigveda and the Holy Bible." (Shukla 1979, p.56)

Intriguing is his statement that,"The famous V??akapi and some other allied saktas can be best understood and appreciated only in the form of the Book of Esther." (Shukla 1979, p,56) "Further discussion of the term 'Hebrew': We have mentioned earler that another meaning of the term Savitr (the Sanskrit form of the term Hebrew) is Brahma?a. Now let us consider the word 'Brahma?a'. f we remove the suffix 'mana' from this word, then it becomes 'Brah', which, if pronounced repeatedly, gives the word, 'Habra' which is nearer to the word 'Hebrew'. Also that, both the words, written without vowel signs, would give 'BRH' and 'HBR' respectively. The similarity is evident.

It would be interesting to note another Sanrkrit word, 'vipra' (a synonym of 'Brahma?a') in the same connection. The word 'vipra' beomes 'Ipar' in colloquial Marathi. Now consider the word 'Ipar'. This word may assume the forms 'Iber' (p=b), Ibri, Ibhray, Ibrani etc. and, on being subjected to the reverse operations of the rules of prothesis and Anaptyxis in succession, would reduce 'Pr' to 'Prm', which we have already shown to be the [ other form ] of Hebrew'. This leads us to the conclusion that the Hebrews can be identified unhesitatingly with these Indian Brahmins who had migrated from India in the very early dawn of the Vedic period." (Shukla 1979, p.54)

The rule of prothesis Shukla describes as the process of vowels developing before consonants, eg. Skt. rudhira, rajah, laghu, nr, nakha, naman which he claims led to Greek eruhtros, erobos, elakus, aner, onuch, onoma (ibid, p.44). The rule of anaptyxis is the insertion of vowel betwen combination of words (ibid, p.44).

Also, in both Avestan and Avadhi Hindi, the words Manthara and Manthra are used, and not the Sanskrit mantra (Shukla 1979, p.47).

Finally, he notes, "We have derived the word 'Hebrew' from the Sanskrit word, 'Savit?' (Shukla 1979, p.52)

More controversial would be Shukla's following statement:

"On the basis of the above since some similiarty of Jews and Arabs Sabeans

5. CUSTOMS

Describing the strength of his evidence, Shukla notes, "Sometimes, these evidences become so strong as may lead one to suspect that the Hebrews might have really been an offshoot of Vedic Aryans." (Shukla 1976, p.41)

Some of his strong evidence relates to common customs:

"It may also be mentioned here that like a devout Jew, a devout Hindu is also required to pray three times a day, morning, afternoon and evening (traikalika-sandhya)

To cite still another similarity in religious practices between the Hindus and the Jews, Hayyim Schauss notes in his Jewish Festivals, p.64: "When all is ready, the Samaritans form groups about the {p.47} sacrificial animals, and after uttering the prescribed blessings, fall upon the roast meat, pulling it hastily to pieces with their hands. Portions are brought to the women and children in the tents. Everybody eats rapidly and in twenty minutes all that is left is a mound of bones."

Here it is worthwhile to note: (a) Though turned largely vegetarians now, the Brahmins of India present almost similar scenes of eating hastily in their religious and ritual grand-feasts.

(b) Like Hebrews, the Hindu womenfolk also sit in seclusion to eat their share in their public feasts.

(c) Any person, who eats too rapidly (hurridly, impatiently), or too much, is called a 'haboru' in the Hindi language, particularly in the Avadhi dialect..... The resemblance bewteen the words Hebrew and Haboru is particulary striking" (Shukla 1976, p.46-47) "there is a strong case to suspect or speculate that either the Hebrews really belong to a branch of Vedic Aryans, or that they had been in direct touch with the latter at some remote and unrecorded period of their history." (Shukla 1876, p.47)

6. ANTHROPOLOGY

Citing evidence from anthropology for his thesis, Shukla notes:

"The above discussion also leads us to the conclusion that the term 'Bharatavarsa' (= India) actually means 'the land of the Hebrews', a conclusion which is fully supported by the observation of Prof. S.K.Chatterji that, "the third Mediterranean strain, the so-called 'Oriental' one, commoly miscalled the Semitic or Jewish, with a pronouncedly long nose and fair in skin, is found in the Punjab, in Sind, in Rajputana and in Western UP, and .... in other parts of India" [R.C.Majumdar, ed. Vedic Age, 1965, p.145-6]" (Shukla 1979, p.57)

To this we may add the brachycephaly common to both Jews and Brahmins.

7. SABEANS

Shukla agrees with the generally accepted concept of a common bond between Jews and Sabaeans or Yemenites:

"Now, let us consider the word, 'Sabean'. We have already mentioned that 'Savi' is the root-word of the term 'Savit?' and hence the term 'Sabean' can be shown to be the equivalent of the word, 'Savit?', ie. Hebrew. What we mean is that the Sabeans and the Hebrews were 2 twigs of the same branch." (Shukla 1979, p.55)

8. COW-WORSHIP

It may be instructive to cite additional facts in favour of the common origin of Jews and Brahmins which have arisen after Shukla's work. One striking common feature linking Brahmins with Jews is that of cow-worship. When Moses descended from Mt. Sinai, he found the Jews worshipping the golden calf. Likewise, "Ex. xxxii. attributes the making of a golden calf to Aaron at Mount Sinai," and "Jeroboam, in making the sanctuaries of Beth-el and Dan the recipients of his royal patronage, placed in them images of Yhwh made of gold in this calf form, the fame of which went far and wide (compare I Kings xii. 23; II Kings x. 29; II Chron. xi. 14, 15)." (Jastrow Barton 1906) Cow-worship was common amongst Hebrews:

"Among the Hebrews, as among the other agricultural Semites, the bull was associated with deity in a sacred character (see Ox). The form in which this thought found expression in Israel was in their representation of Yhwh by an image of an ox or bull made of gold (compare I Kings xii. 28)." ( Jastrow Barton 1906).

There was also a "representation of Yhwh by an image of an ox or bull made of gold (compare I Kings xii. 28)." Finally, "the twelve oxen on which rested the great laver in the Temple of Solomon (I Kings vii. 25; II Kings xvi. 17; Jer. lii. 20) are regarded as evidence that there was some sacred character attached to the bull," [ibid.].

The sacredness of the cow is likewise a fundamental part of Brahmanism:

"Dying, without the expectation of a reward, for the sake of Brahmanasand of cows, or in the defence of women and children, secures beatitude tothose excluded (from the Aryan community, vahya.)" [Manu, Ch.X.62]

"I call on you the Sons of Dyaus, the Asvins, that a dark cow to my redkine be added." [Rig-Veda, Book X, Hymn 61].

"He shall not touch with his foot a Brahmana, a cow, nor any other(venerable beings)." [Apastamba, Prasna I, Patala 11, Khanda 31]

9. MOON-WORSHIP

However, in his section on "Sun-worship", M.M.Shukla has made a mistake, for it is moon-worship which links Jews and Brahmins rather than Sun-worship. Selenolatry (moon-worship) was common to both Brahmans and Jews. Sun-worship is a natural outgrowth of a cold northern climate, where the nourishing warmth of the Sun is considered the bringer of life. It is hence a characteristic of Indo-European populations, compare the Ahura Mazda of Zoroastrianism, the Mithra of Mithraism, Sol Invictus of Rome, Asshur of the Assyrians, and the Surya of the Sauras of India.

By contrast, moon-worship is a natural phenomenon of warm and desert regions, where it symbolises the refreshing coolness of the night, the opposite of the harsh and inhuman desert day. It thus arose amongst the Sumerians, where the capital was "Ur, the central home of the Semitic moon-cult" (Waddell 1929, p.388). The Old and New Testaments bear ample testimony to selenolatry amongst Hebrews (Deut. xxxiii. 14; Jer. vii. 18, xliv. 17; Job, xxxi. 26-27;, Judges viii. 21, 26; Isa. iii. 18; Cant. vi. 10; Ps. lxxii. 5, 7, lxxxix. 37; Isa. xiii. 10 xxiv. 23; Joel ii. 10, ii. 31; Amos vii. 5; I Sam. xvii. 14).

The Jewish Encyclopedia further demonstrates selenolatry amongst Jews:

"In Job (xxxi. 26 et seq.) there is an allusion to the kissing of the hand in the adoration of the moon ... Thus, the fact that Terah, Abraham's father, had lived first at Ur of the Chaldees, and that later he settled at Haran (Gen. xi. 31), two cities known from Assyrian inscriptions as places of moon-worship, shows that Abraham's parents were addicted to that form of idolatry ... The golden calf, Hommel declares, was nothing more than an emblem of the moon-god, which, in the Assyrian inscription, is styled 'the youthful and mighty bull' and the lord of the heavenly hosts (comp. "Yhwh Zeba'ot," which term is intentionally omitted from the Pentateuch). He assigns the same character to the two calves made by Jeroboam several centuries later (I Kings xii. 28) .... The close similarity between the ancient Hebrews and the southern Arabs has led Hommel furthermore to find allusion to moon-worship in such Hebrew names as begin with "ab" (= "father"), as in "Abimelech" and "Absalom," or with "'am" (= "uncle"), as in "Amminadab" and "Jeroboam," because these particles, when they appear in the names of southern Arabs, refer to the moon." (Seligsohn 1902, p.528)

The reappearance of the moon is sanctified, like the entrance of the Sabbath or festivals, by the recitation of benedictions known in liturgy as "K.iddush ha-Lebanah" or "Birkat ha-Lebanah."

Sinai is likewise a centre for Selenolatry: "Those scholars who incline to establish a connection between moon-worship ("Sin" = "moon") and the monotheism of Israel ("Sinai") find a corroboration of their theory in the fact that Abram's original home was the seat of the worship of Sin." (Hirsch 1902, p.380)

'India' and 'Hindu' are likewise derived from Indu, the name of the moon-god, also called Soma. The Somanath temple in Gujarat is dedicated to the moon-god. In the name of Rama, Rama-Chandra, the suffix Chandra is derived from the Semitic 'Sin'. Parashu-rama, 'Rama with the Axe', one of the incarnations of Vishnu, is the foremost deity for many Brahmins; the Parashu-rama is derived from Param-Sin, a title of the Moon God Sin. Thus both Ramas are votaries of the moon.

Another common point shared by Jews and Brahmins is the concept of negative memories regarding "Asuras". Historians have long wrestled with this question, as to why the "Asuras" are treated with such fear in the Vedas. However, this fear of Asuras amongst Brahmins becomes understood when one considers that the Assyrians deported the Jews. If the Brahmins share a common descent with Jews, it is only natural that they preserve in their collective memory a negative conception of their oppressors. Another 'mystery' is solved.

10. STAR OF DAVID

Mysteriously, the Star of David is common to both Judaism and certain forms of Tantrism in India, as noted by Barbara G. Walker:

"The familiar design of two interlocked triangles is generally supposed to have represented the Jewish faith since the time of David, or Solomon; therefore this hexagram is known as Magen David (Shield of David), or the Star of David, or Solomon's Seal.... {p. 402} The downward-pointing triangle is a female symbol corresponding to the yoni; it is called 'shakti.' The upward-pointing triangle is the male, the lingam, and is called 'the fire' (vahni). ... Cabalists used the hexagram as Tantric yogis used it, to represent the union of God with his Female Power, Shekina, the Jewish form of Shakti-Kali." (Walker 1983, p.401-402) The oldest undisputed example of the six-pointed star, as recorded in the Encyclopedia Judaica, is on a seal from the seventh century B.C.E. found in Sidon north of Tyre and belonging to one Joshua ben Asayahu, the name indicating that the owner was Jewish. In the Second Temple period, the hexagram was often used alongside the pentagram (the five-pointed star), and is found in the synagogue of Capernaum (second or third century C.E.). This is before the attested appearance of the Tantric six-pointed star, indicating that it is derived from the Jewish Star of David. Perhaps it was imported via Kabbalic sects. Be that as it may be, this indicates a common origin of Jews and Brahmins.

11. Conclusion

Hence, there are several features which link Jews and Brahmins, indicating a common origin. From this M.M.Shukla and his followers would have the Jews descended from Vedic Brahmins, while the present author and other researchers would have the Brahmins descended from a "Lost Tribe of Israel". Whatever the details, Shukla's detailed researches assit in the establishment of a common origin of Jews and Brahmins. We may thus conclude with the words of the Enlightenment researcher Godfrey Higgins (1772-1833):

"Now, what am I to make of this? Were these Brahmins Jews, or the Jews Brahmins?" ("Anacalypsis", Vol.I, p.771, cited in Matlock 2000, p.70)

References

Hirsch 1902: "Ur", by Emil G. Hirsch, Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol.12, p.380; http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

Jastrow Barton 1906: "Calf-Worship," by Morris Jastrow Jr. George A. Barton, Jewish Encyclopedia, Vol.III, p.510-511, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com.

Matlock 2000: "Jesus and Moses are Buried in India, Birthplace of Abraham and the Hebrews", by Gene D. Matlock, Authors Choice Press, San Jose, imprint 5220 S 16th, Ste 200, Lincoln, NE 68512, Nov. 2000, $24, http://www.iuniverse.com.

Seligsohn 1902: "Star-Worship", by M. Seligsohn et al, Jewish Encyclopedia, 1902, Vol.11, p.527-528.

Shukla 1976: "Hebrews and Vedic Aryans" by Madan Mohan Shukla, (47, Kumar Bhavan, opp. M.M.Hospital, G.T.Road, Ghaziabad), Vishveshvaranand Indological Journal, Vol.XIV, Pt.1 (March 1976), p.41-47.

Shukla 1979: "The Hebrews belong to a Branch of Vedic Aryans" by Madan Mohan Shukla, Journal of the Oriental Institute, M.S. (Maharaja Sayajirao) University of Baroda, Baroda, Vol. XXVIII (March-June 1979) Nos. 3-4, p.44-57; Director, Oriental Insitute, Tilak Road, opp. Sayajigunj Tower, Baroda-390002, Gujarat, India; Rs.30/year.

Waddell 1929: "The Makers of Civilization in Race and History", by L.A. Waddell, 1929, reprint S.Chand Company, P.O.Box No. 5733, Ram Nagar, 7361, New Delhi-110055, 1986, Rs.400, http://www.schandgroup.com.

Walker 1983: "The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets," by Barbara G. Walker, Harper Row, San Francisco, 1983.

synergy777

13-08-2007, 03:12 PM

http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/scientific-verif-vedas.html

Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge
by David Osborn

A vast number of statements and materials presented in the ancient Vedic literatures can be shown to agree with modern scientific findings and they also reveal a highly developed scientific content in these literatures. The great cultural wealth of this knowledge is highly relevant in the modern world.

Techniques used to show this agreement include:

• Marine Archaeology of underwater sites (such as Dvaraka)

• Satellite imagery of the Indus-Sarasvata River system,

• Carbon and Thermoluminiscence Dating of archaeological artifacts

• Scientific Verification of Scriptural statements

• Linguistic analysis of scripts found on archaeological artifacts

• A Study of cultural continuity in all these categories.

Introduction
Early indologists wished to control & convert the followers of Vedic Culture, therefore they widely propagated that the Vedas were simply mythology.

Max Muller, perhaps the most well known early sanskritist and indologist, although later in life he glorified the Vedas, initially wrote that the "Vedas were worse than savage" and "India must be conquered again by education... it's religion is doomed"

Thomas Macaulay, who introduced English education into India wanted to make the residents into a race that was: "Indian in blood and color, but English in taste, in opinion, in morals, and in intellect."

However, the German Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer stated that the Sanskrit understanding of these Indologists was like that of young schoolboys.

These early Indologists:

• Devised the Aryan Invasion theory, denying India's Vedic past

• They taught that the English educational system is superior

• They intentionally misinterpreted sanskrit texts to make the Vedas look primitive.

• And they systematically tried to make Indians ashamed of their own culture

• Thus the actions of these indologists seems to indicate that they were motivated by a racial bias.

Innumerable archaeological findings and their analysis have recently brought the Aryan Invasion Theory into serious question. This theory is still taught as fact in many educational systems despite much contrary evidence.

The Aryan Invasion Theory Defined

• Vedic Aryans entered India between 1,500 and 1,200 B.C.

• They conquered the native Dravidian culture by virtue of their superiority due to their horses & iron weapons

• They Imported the Vedic culture and it's literatures.

• This Aryan Invasion Theory, however, deprives the inhabitants of India of their Vedic heritage. The wealth of their culture came from foreign soil.

The Aryan Invasion Theory raises an interesting dilemna called Frawleys Paradox: On the one hand we have the vast Vedic Literature without any archaeological finds associated with them and on the other hand, we have 2,500 archaeological sites from the Indus-Sarasvata civilization without any literature associated with them.

A preponderance of contemporary evidence now seems to indicate that these are one and the same cultures. This certainly eliminates this paradox and makes perfect sense, to an unbiased researcher.

Facts which cast serious doubt on the Aryan Invasion Theory

• There is no evidence of an Aryan homeland outside of India mentioned anywhere in the Vedas. On the contrary, the Vedas speak of the mighty Sarasvati River and other places indigenous to India. To date, no evidence for a foreign intrusion has been found, neither archaeological, linguistic, cultural nor genetic.

• There are more than 2,500 Archaeological sites, two-thirds of which are along the recently discovered dried up Sarasvati River bed. These sites show a cultural continuity with the Vedic literature from the early Harrapan civilization up to the present day India.

The archaeological sites along the dried up Sarasvati River basin are represented by black dots.

• Several independent studies of the drying up of the Sarasvati River bed, all indicate the same time period of 1,900 B.C.E.

• The significance of establishing this date for the drying up of the Sarasvati River is, that it pushes the date for the composition of the Rig Veda back to approximately 3,000 B.C.E., as enunciated by the Vedic tradition itself.

• The late dating of the Vedic literatures by indologists is based on speculated dates of 1,500 B.C.E. for the Aryan Invasion and 1,200 B.C.E. for the Rig Veda, both now disproved by scientific evidence.

Max Muller, the principal architect of the Aryan Invasion theory, admitted the purely speculative nature of his Vedic chronology, and in his last work published shortly before his death, The Six Systems of Indian Philosophy, he wrote: "Whatever may be the date of the Vedic hymns, whether 15 hundred or 15,000 B.C.E., they have their own unique place and stand by themselves in the literature of the world."

The Vedic Culture is indigenous to India

It can be scientifically proven that the Vedic Culture is indigenous, through archaeology, the study of cultural continuity, by linguistic analysis, and genetic research.

For example, the language and symbolism found on the Harappan seals are very Vedic. We find the Om symbol, the leaf of the Asvatta or holy banyan tree, as well as the swastika, or sign of auspiciousness, mentioned throughout the Vedas. Om is mentioned in the Mundaka and Katha Upanisads as well as the Bhagavad Gita.

The Holy Asvatta tree is mentioned in the Aitareya and Satapata Brahmanas as well as the Taittiriya Samhita and Katyayana Smrti.

The pictoral script of these Harappan seals has been deciphered as consistently Vedic and termed "Proto-brahmi," as a pre-sanskrit script.

This piece of pottery from the lowest level of Harappan excavations with pre-harappan writing is deciphered as ila vartate vara, referring to the sacred land bounded by the Sarasvati River, described in the Rig Veda.

Additionally, other archaeological finds are culturally consistent, such as the dancing girl, whose bracelets are similar to those worn by women of Northwest India today as well as

the three stone Siva Lingas found in Harappa by M. S. Vats in 1940. The worship of the Siva Linga is mentioned in the Maha Narayana Upanisad of the Yajur Veda and is still ardently practiced today.

The Vedas were maligned by early indologists because of their disagreement with their Eurocentric colonialists world view, a view which produced and depended on the Aryan Invasion Theory. The fact that the Aryan Invasion Theory has been seriously challenged recently by scholars and indologists, adds credence to the Vedas as viable, accurate and indigenous sources of information.

Satellite imagery of the Dried Up Sarasvati River Basin

Using modern scientific methods, such as satellite imagery and dating techniques, it can be shown that the ancient statements of the Vedas are factual, not mythical as erroneously propagated. High resolution satellite images have verified descriptions in The Rig Veda of the descent of the ancient Sarasvati River from it's source in the Himalayas to the Arabian Sea.

"Pure in her course from the mountains to the ocean, alone of streams Sarasvati hath listened."

The mighty Sarasvati River and it's civilization are referred to in the Rig Veda more than fifty times, proving that the drying up of the Sarasvati River was subsequent to the origin of the Rig Veda, pushing this date of origin back into antiquity, casting further doubt on the imaginary date for the so-called Aryan Invasion.

The Satellite image (above) clearly shows the Indus-Sarasvata river system extending from the Himalayas to the Arabian Sea. Here the Indus River is on the left, outlined in blue, while the Sarasvati River basin is outlined in green. The black dots are the many archeological sites or previous settlements along the banks of the now dry Sarasvati River.

The drying up of the Sarasvati River around 1900 B.C.E. is confirmed archaeologically. Following major tectonic movements or plate shifts in the Earth's crust, the primary cause of this drying up was due to the capture of the Sarasvati River's main tributaries, the Sutlej River and the Drishadvati River by other rivers.

Although early studies, based on limited archaeological evidence produced contradictory conclusions, recent independent studies, such as that of archaeologist James Shaffer in 1993, showed no evidence of a foreign invasion in the Indus Sarasvata civilization and that a cultural continuity could be traced back for millennia.

In other words, Archaeology does not support the Aryan Invasion Theory.

Evidence for the Ancient Port City of Dvaraka

Marine archaeology has also been utilized in India off the coast of the ancient port city of Dvaraka in Gujarat, uncovering further evidence in support of statements in the Vedic scriptures. An entire submerged city at Dvaraka, the ancient port city of Lord Krishna with its massive fort walls, piers, warfs and jetty has been found in the ocean as described in the Mahabharata and other Vedic literatures.

This sanskrit verse from the Mausala Parva of the Mahabharata, describes the disappearance of the city of Dvaraka into the sea.

"After all the people had set out, the ocean flooded Dvaraka, which still teemed with wealth of every kind. Whatever portion of land was passed over, the ocean immediately flooded over with its waters."
Dr. S. R. Rao, formerly of the Archaeological Survey of India, has pioneered marine archaeology in India. Marine archaeological findings seem to corroborate descriptions in the Mahabharata of Dvaraka as a large, well-fortified and prosperous port city, which was built on land reclaimed from the sea, and later taken back by the sea. This lowering and raising of the sea level during these same time periods of the 15th and 16th centuries B.C.E. is also documented in historical records of the country of Bahrain.

Amongst the extensive underwater discoveries were the massive Dvaraka city wall, a large door-socket and a bastion from the fort wall.

Two rock-cut slipways of varying width, extending from the beach to the intertidal zone, a natural harbor, as well as a number of olden stone ship anchors were discovered, attesting to Dvaraka being an ancient port city.

The three headed motif on this conch-shell seal (above), found in the Dvaraka excavations, corroborates the reference in the scripture Harivamsa that every citizen of Dvaraka should carry a mudra or seal of this type.

All these underwater excavations add further credibility to the validity of the historical statements found in the Vedic literatures.

Thirty-five Archaeological Sites in North India

Apart from Dvaraka, more than thirty-five sites in North India have yielded archaeological evidence and have been identified as ancient cities described in the Mahabharata. Copper utensils, iron, seals, gold & silver ornaments, terracotta discs and painted grey ware pottery have all been found in these sites. Scientific dating of these artifacts corresponds to the non-aryan-invasion model of Indian antiquity.

Furthermore, the Matsya and Vayu Puranas describe great flooding which destroyed the capital city of Hastinapur, forcing its inhabitants to relocate in Kausambi. The soil of Hastinapur reveals proof of this flooding. Archaeological evidence of the new capital of Kausambi has recently been found which has been dated to the time period just after this flood.

Kurukshetra

Similarly, in Kurukshetra, the scene of the great Mahabharata war, Iron arrows and spearheads have been excavated and dated by thermoluminence to 2,800 B.C.E., the approximate date of the war given within the Mahabharata itself.

The Mahabharata also describes three cities given to the Pandavas, the heroes of the Mahabharata, after their exile:

Paniprastha, Sonaprastha & Indraprastha, which is Delhi's Puranaqila. These sites have been identified and yielded pottery & antiquities, which show a cultural consistency & dating consistent for the Mahabharata period, again verifying statements recorded in the Vedic literatures.

Renowned Thinkers Who Appreciated the Vedic Literatures

Although early indologists, in their missionary zeal, widely vilified the Vedas as primitive mythology, many of the worlds greatest thinkers admired the Vedas as great repositories of advanced knowledge and high thinking

Arthur Schopenhauer, the famed German philosopher and writer, wrote that: I "...encounter [in the Vedas] deep, original, lofty thoughts... suffused with a high and holy seriousness."

The well-known early American writer Ralph Waldo Emerson, read the Vedas daily. Emerson wrote: "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavat-Gita"

Henry David Thoreau said: "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita... in comparison with which... our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial."

So great were Emerson and Thoreau's appreciation of Vedantic literatures that they became known as the American transcendentalists. Their writings contain many thoughts from Vedic Philosophy.

Other famous personalities who spoke of the greatness of the Vedas were: Alfred North Whitehead (British mathematician, logician and philosopher), who stated that: "Vedanta is the most impressive metaphysics the human mind has conceived."

Julius Robert Oppenheimer, the principle developer of the atomic bomb, stated that "The Vedas are the greatest privilege of this century." During the explosion of the first atomic bomb, Oppenheimer quoted several Bhagavad-gita verses from the 11th chapter, such as:

"Death I am, cause of destruction of the worlds..."

When Oppenheimer was asked if this is the first nuclear explosion, he significantly replied: "Yes, in modern times," implying that ancient nuclear explosions may have previously occurred.

Lin Yutang, Chinese scholar and author, wrote that: "India was China's teacher in trigonometry, quadratic equations, grammar, phonetics... " and so forth.

Francois Voltaire stated: "... everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges."

From these statements we see that many renowned intellectuals believed that the Vedas provided the origin of scientific thought.

The Iron Pillar of Delhi

The Vedic literatures contain descriptions of advanced scientific techniques, sometimes even more sophisticated than those used in our modern technological world.

Modern metallurgists have not been able to produce iron of comparable quality to the 22 foot high Iron Pillar of Delhi, which is the largest hand forged block of iron from antiquity.

This pillar stands at mute testimony to the highly advanced scientific knowledge of metallurgy that was known in ancient India. Cast in approximately the 3rd century B.C., the six and a half ton pillar, over two millennia has resisted all rust and even a direct hit by the artillary of the invading army of Nadir Shah during his sacking of Delhi in 1737.

Vedic Cosmology

Vedic Cosmology is yet another ancient Vedic science which can be confirmed by modern scientific findings and this is acknowledged by well known scientists and authors, such as Carl Sagan and Count Maurice Maeterlinck, who recognized that the cosmology of the Vedas closely parallels modern scientific findings.

Carl Sagan stated, "Vedic Cosmology is the only one in which the time scales correspond to those of modern scientific cosmology."

Nobel laureate Count Maurice Maeterlinck wrote of: "a Cosmogony which no European conception has ever surpassed."

French astronomer Jean-Claude Bailly corroborated the antiquity and accuracy of the Vedic astronomical measurements as "more ancient than those of the Greeks or Egyptians." And that, "the movements of the stars calculated 4,500 years ago, does not differ by a minute from the tables of today."

The ninety foot tall astronomical instrument known as Samrat Yantra, built by the learned King Suwai Jai Singh of Jaipur, measures time to within two seconds per day.

Cosmology and other scientific accomplishments of ancient India spread to other countries along with mercantile and cultural exchanges. There are almost one hundred references in the Rig Veda alone to the ocean and maritime activity. This is confirmed by Indian historian R. C. Majumdar, who stated that the people of the Indus-Sarasvata Civilization engaged in trade with Sooma and centers of culture in western Asia and Crete.

The Heliodorus Column and Cultural Links to India

An example of these exchanges is found in the inscriptions on the Heliodorus Column, erected in 113 B.C.E. by Heliodorus, a Greek ambassador to India, and convert to Vaisnavism, as well as the 2nd century B.C.E. Coins of Agathocles, showing images of Krishna and Balaram. These artifacts stand testimony that Sanatan Dharma predates Christianity.

This also confirms the link between India and other ancient civilizations such as Greece and shows that there was a continuous exchange of culture, philosophy and scientific knowledge between India & other countries. Indeed the Greeks learned many wonderful things from India.

Vedic Mathematics

Voltaire, the famous French writer and philosopher) stated that "Pythagoras went to the Ganges to learn geometry." Abraham Seidenberg, author of the authoritative "History of Mathematics," credits the Sulba Sutras as inspiring all mathematics of the ancient world from Babylonia to Egypt to Greece.

As Voltaire & Seidenberg have stated, many highly significant mathematical concepts have come from the Vedic culture, such as:

The theorem bearing the name of the Greek mathematician Pythagorus is found in the Shatapatha Brahmana as well as the Sulba Sutra, the Indian mathematical treatise, written centuries before Pythagorus was born.

The Decimal system, based on powers of ten, where the remainder is carried over to the next column, first mentioned in the Taittiriya Samhita of the Black Yajurveda.

The Introduction of zero as both a numerical value and a place marker.

The Concept of infinity.

The Binary number system, essential for computers, was used in Vedic verse meters.

A hashing technique, similar to that used by modern search algorithms, such as Googles, was used in South Indian musicology. From the name of a raga one can determine the notes of the raga from this Kathapayadi system. (See Figure at left.)

For further reading we refer you to this excellent article on Vedic Mathematics.

Vedic Sound and Mantras

The Vedas however are not as well known for presenting historical and scientific knowledge as they are for expounding subtle sciences, such as the power of mantras. We all recognize the power of sound itself by it's effects, which can be quite dramatic. Perhaps we all have seen a high-pitched frequency shatter an ordinary drinking glass. Such a demonstration shows that Loud Sounds can produce substantial reactions

It is commonly believed that mantras can carry hidden power which can in turn produce certain effects. The ancient Vedic literatures are full of descriptions of weapons being called by mantra. For example, many weapons were invoked by mantra during the epic Kuruksetra War, wherein the Bhagavad-gita itself was spoken.

The ancient deployment of Brahmastra weapons, equivalent to modern day nuclear weapons are described throughout the Vedic literatures. Additionally, mantras carry hidden spiritual power, which can produce significant benefits when chanted properly. Indeed, the Vedas themselves are sound vibrations in literary form and carry a profound message. Spiritual disciplines recommend meditational practices such as silent meditation, silent recitation of mantras and also the verbal repetition of specific mantras out loud.

A Clinical Test of the Benefits of Mantra Chanting was performed on three groups of sixty-two subjects, males and females of average age 25. They chanted the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra twenty-five minutes each day under strict clinical supervision.

Results showed that regular chanting of the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra reduces Stress and depression and helps reduce bad habits & addictions. These results formed a PhD Thesis at Florida State University.

Spiritual practitioners claim many benefits from Mantra Meditation such as increased realization of spiritual wisdom, inner peace and a strong communion with God and the spiritual realm. These effects may be experienced by following the designated spiritual path.

Conclusion

Most of the evidence given in this presentation is for the apara vidya or material knowledge of the Vedic literatures. The Vedas however, are more renowned for their para vidya or spiritual knowledge. And even superior is the realized knowledge of the Vedic rsis or saints — that which is beyond the objective knowledge of modern science — knowledge of the eternal realm of sat, cit ananda, eternality, blissfullness and full knowledge. But that is another presentation.

The Scientific Verification of Vedic Knowledge is available from DevaVision Video Documentaries as a DVD video and downloadable as a Quicktime video: Devavision Video Downloads

For additional Vedic Science articles please visit: http://www.vedicsciences.net/

fullfathomfive

13-08-2007, 04:01 PM

http://www.legal-edocs.org/LEDIDragonLogo.htm

Regarding the Celts...

Quote:

' But where did these contentious people originate? As early as 1000BC a Proto-Celtic people called Urnfield. originally from Eastern Russia (don't tell December!), took their culture & language (commonly referred to as “Old” Celtic) and migrated throughout most of the Ukraine, the Baltic areas including Turkey, Northern & Central Europe, eventually dominating most of upper continental Europe.

During their history, these proto-Celts gathered many names from the other tribes and cultures in Europe and excavations show their settlements in Central Europe during the Late Bronze Age (1200-800 BC). By the beginning of the Early Iron Age (800-500BC) they had spread out over Upper Austria and Bavaria, Bohemia and northern Asia as far as the frontiers of China. The simultaneous appearance of the use of iron in both China and Central Europe give credence to this history.

Their central location is believed to be the headwaters of the Danube, the Rhine and the Rhone, which archeological evidence confirms from excavations. This was Halstatt phase, dating from the beginning of the seventh century and named for a site found in the Upper Danube region, was the first with an identifiable Celtic culture of people sharing a common language and customs. The Urnfield culture which preceded them may also have spoken a variety of Celtic, but they had not yet created the material culture that we identify with the Iron Age Celts. At the height of the Halstatt phase, (4th-3rd centuries BCE) Celtic communities spanned from the Paris basin to valley of Moravia in Eastern Europe and from the Alps to the north European plain.

But unstable political conditions in the Mediterranean and population growth among the Celtic tribes forced a collapse the Halstatt culture sometime around 400BC and another wave of Celtic migrations began. From the Danube region they eventually spread into the Iberian peninsula, the British Isles, all of France, western Germany, into Italy, Czechoslovakia, down into the Balkans, and back into Asia Minor and then Spain, Brittany, Wales, Scotland & Ireland.

Recent discoveries indicate a further difference in this latter migration. The earlier group of Celts was agrarian in nature and as they moved westward across Europe, founding lake dwellings in the Danube Valley, Switzerland and France, they mingled in relative peace with the previous occupants of these areas. These early Celts burned their dead rather than bury them. They were skilled metalworkers, using gold, tin and bronze with equal facility.

The second group of Celts was a military aristocracy, reputed to love fighting for the sheer joy of combat itself (Roy Keane?). They had a very distinct caste system, with the warriors and priests (Druids) sharing the top level. Renowned for their chivalry and dauntless bravery, these Celts balanced their martial traits with an unusual level of sensitivity to music, poetry and philosophy. According to St. Patrick, the Celts adhered closely to a code of conduct laid down by the Druids: "Truth in the heart, strength in the arm, honesty in speech."

These people buried their dead with elaborate ritual and rich grave furnishings, and they believed in an immortal soul -- a widely radical idea for the times, and one shared by the Brahmins of India, further indicating their ties to Asia Minor. The warrior Celts (along with the Brahmins) also believed in reincarnation, a belief that gave them their fearless attitude in battle. These then were the Keltoi of Herodotus

There skill at warfare was legendary. Alexander the Great had to undertake campaigns in Bulgaria in 335 BC as the result of Celtic invasions and more than 20,000 immigrated back into Asia Minor at the invitation of the king of Bythnia to serve as mercenaries under his command. A local king names Antigonus Gonatas also employed Celtic mercenaries in his army, although he was defeated in 277 BC by Pyrrhus, king of Epirus and later namesake of the Pyrrhic victory. And even Egyptian kings were recorded as hiring them to police outlying provinces of the Egyptian empire.

But in addition to being highly aggressive and fond of war, they were eloquent in speech, boastful, volatile and high-spirited. As noted above, they doted on their appearance and were fond of jewelry and brightly colored clothing. Some Celtic experts believe that writing was known to the Keltoi priest class of Druids as demonstrated by the bronze calendar of Coligny dating to the first century BC which depicts a five-year lunar cycle. Although written in Roman letters it is entirely Celtic in concept and language.

The advanced oral methods of the Celts were well known to Roman historians. Cato in the second century BC was as much impressed with their eloquence as he was with their personal bravery at war. Diodorus Siculus in the following century commented on the advanced nature of their speech with the use of allusion, hyperbole and grandiloquent language. One Latin text of unknown source but addressed to Constantine, describes a prince of the Gallic tribe of Aedui pleading for his countrymen against the invader Ariovistus as "the Aeduan prince, haranguing the Senate, leaning on his shield."

The Romans actually employed Gallic tutors, acknowledging the formal courses of instruction used by the Druids in the training of their successors. Despite the lack of books, their instruction included the stars and the motion of the planets, the size of the universe and the earth, the nature and greatness of the earth, the power and majesty of the gods, and other subjects in natural and moral philosophy including the immortality of the soul.

Numerous Roman authors commented on this depth of learning. Pliny, in his Natural History of 77 AD, said that it "almost seems she (Britain) exported the (Druidic) cult to the Persians." John Chrysostum compared the Druids to the Brahmans of India and the Magi of Persia and St. Clement of Alexandria, circa 200 AD, stated that Pythagorus, the ancient Greek mathematician and philosopher, was influenced by the Galatae and the Brahmans.

And the Keltoi were also adept politically. Inscriptions in Asia Minor show that they met every five years in tribal assemblies at Ancyra where they settled tribal differences and elected leaders as well as held religious festivals together with gymnastics and sports. These traditions have come down to us through the Greek Olympics, although we no longer remember or recognize the religious ties. Their French kinsmen held yearly tribal meetings at Chartres where they also observed religious ceremonies together with amusements and games and had tribal differences were adjudicated by the Druid priests.

In Ireland the Celtic tribes assembled every three years at Tara, the traditional center of ancient Irish kingship. Their meetings were similar to those of the Galatae and the Gauls with tribal business, religious observance, games and amusements. This was a solemn assembly for the Irish Celts and during this period there was universal amnesty; all indebtedness was forgiven and all criminals were released from imprisonment. These assemblies were held on a regular basis until the sixth century AD.'

synergy777

13-08-2007, 05:06 PM

great post bro. i love celtic history due to its parallels with vedic history.

i think celts have strong connection to iberia/anatolia/persia. also with later migrations, the earliest celts have had to assymilate many invading cultures eg the danes/blondes and time/environment/climate has also had an effect on them. the orginal celts were a mediterranean black/brown hair, olive skin.

fullfathomfive

13-08-2007, 05:13 PM

Yep. Strong Celtic roots in Spain/Portugal. Especially Galicia.

synergy777

13-08-2007, 05:28 PM

celta de vigo, berbers = hibernia.

remember hibernia is scotland, eire is ireland, britannia is roman name for albion/later angleland/england.

synergy777

13-08-2007, 05:58 PM

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/08/070806-humans-asia.html

First Europeans Came From Asia, Not Africa, Tooth Study Suggests
Kate Ravilious for National Geographic News

August 6, 2007
Europe's first early human colonizers were from Asia, not Africa, a new analysis of more than 5,000 ancient teeth suggests.

Researchers had traditionally assumed that Europe was settled in waves starting around two million years ago, as our ancient ancestors—collectively known as hominids—came over from Africa.

But the shapes of teeth from a number of hominid species suggest that arrivals from Asia played a greater role in colonizing Europe than hominids direct from Africa.

These Asian hominids may have originally come from Africa, the scientists note, but had evolved independently for some time.

(Related: "Did Early Humans First Arise in Asia, Not Africa?" [December 27, 2005].)

"Asia was also an important center for hominid speciation," said Maria Martinón-Torres, a scientist at the National Research Center on Human Evolution in Burgos, Spain, who led the study.

The finding suggests that the hominid family tree could be much more complex than previously thought (explore an interactive atlas of human migration).

Genetic Safe

Species from the genus Australopithecus and the genus Homo arrived in Europe between two million and 300,000 years ago.

Until recently, a lack of fossils from this time period had made it difficult to piece together hominid evolution and migration patterns.

But using the latest fossil findings, Martinón-Torres and colleagues were able to examine more than 5,000 teeth from two-million-year-old Australopithecus and Homo skeletons from Africa, Asia, and Europe.

The shape of the teeth offered clues about each species' genetic lineages

Teeth are like the safe-box of the genetic code," Martinón-Torres said.

That's because—compared to bones—teeth change shape very little once they are formed, and their shape is strongly influenced by genetics.

RELATED
China's Earliest Modern Human Found (April 3, 2007)
Human Genetics Overview
Fossil Tooth Belonged to Earliest Western European, Experts Say (July 2, 2007)

The researchers classified each of the teeth using more than 50 indicators, such as fissure patterns, overall size, and length-to-width ratio.

"We looked at the entire landscape of the teeth—the mountains, valleys, ridges—everything," Martinón-Torres said.

What they found is that European teeth were more similar to Asian teeth than they were to African teeth.

However, the results don't rule out African influence on European genes.

"This finding does not necessarily imply that there was not genetic flow between continents," Martinón-Torres and colleagues write in their paper, "but emphasizes that this interchange could have been both ways."

The work will be published in tomorrow's issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Fluid Migrations

Rather than a one-way stream of people coming from Africa, Martinón-Torres and colleagues think there must have been a more fluid pattern of migrations.

"Just because people had come out of Africa didn't mean that they couldn't turn around and go back again," she said.

The researcher also believes that climate, food, and geography were major influences on hominid migration patterns.

The Sahara, for example, presented a big barrier for movement out of Africa and directly into Europe (see photos and read a related feature about athletes who ran across the Sahara earlier this year).

Rather than struggling across the Sahara, it appears that human ancestors spread in many directions before arriving in Europe.

Erika Hagelberg, a geneticist from the University of Oslo in Norway, is impressed with the study, but cautious about how it should be interpreted.

"The study shows that the genetic impact of Asia on Europe is stronger than that of Africa. But the teeth can't tell us the direction or the time when people migrated," she said.

Nonetheless, the new study does complement direct gene studies and supports the idea that hominids evolved independently in many different parts of the world.

"The fossil teeth are a way to study the traits of past peoples," Hagelberg said, "and help balance the work being done on the genes of people alive today."

synergy777

14-08-2007, 03:57 PM

http://cwva.org/wwvrunes/wwvrunes_3.html

CHRISTIAN MESSAGES IN OLD IRISH SCRIPT DECIPHERED FROM ROCK CARVINGS IN W. VA.
By Barry Fell
© 1983 WV Division of Natural Resources, used with permission

Editor's Note [Wonderful West Virginia's editor]:
In the following article, America's leading expert on ancient languages details his decipherments of two southern West Virginia petroglyphs, one in Wyoming County, the other in Boone County. Because of the innovative and controversial nature of this material, we have chosen to publish Barry Fell's step-by-step description of his decipherment process, in full, for credibility and so that readers may understand how these translations were made.

The decipherment process is complex and technical in nature, therefore, it is impossible to present it in on easy-to-read style. Readers willing to expend the time and mental energy required to study the material will be astounded and intrigued, as the author takes them through the systematic process which led to his startling translations of mysterious writings etched centuries ago by an unknown person on West Virginia s ancient rock cliffs.

Additional archaeological evidence in the same vein as that presented here has been discovered recently in West Virginia, which seems to further substantiate Fell's decipherments. It is currently being analyzed. When studies are complete, details of these additional findings will appear in future issues of this magazine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rock-cut inscriptions which are the subject of this article are located at archaeological sites in Wyoming and Boone Counties, West Virginia. They appear to date from the 6th—8th centuries A.D., and they are written in Old Irish language, employing an alphabet called Ogam, found also on ancient rock-cut inscriptions in Ireland. The inscriptions are accompanied by short annotations in ancient Libyan alphabetic script. The Libyan script is used to render two languages in the annotations (1) the ancient Libyan tongue itself, and (2) an Algonquian dialect of the northeastern group, perhaps allied to Shawnee. In this first report I deal only with the Old Irish texts, as these are the most detailed.

more at the link

synergy777

14-08-2007, 11:46 PM

http://www.fravahr.org/spip.php?article316

Babylon, Persia and Judaism
Breakup of Assyria’s Empire and Ascent of the Moses Legend

Tuesday 13 March 2007, by Frank E. SMITHA

Assyria’s great empire lasted no longer than would the empires that began in the late 19th century — about seventy-five years. Assyria weakened itself economically by continuous wars to maintain its empire, including defending against invasions by an Indo-European tribal people, the Cimmerians, who came upon the Assyrians from the northeast. The Assyrians spent themselves expanding into Egypt and in quelling the rebellions of Egyptian princes. The Cimmerian menace increased, and more rebellions occurred within the empire. Assyria was burdened by the expense of maintaining its army. Soldiers had to be paid. Massive numbers of horses had to be cared for and fed. Siege engines had to be moved against rebellious cities.

In 655 BCE, Egypt was able to break away from Assyrian rule. The Assyrians were then weakened by conflicts over succession, by coups and civil war. During these conflicts, cities in Canaan broke away from Assyrian control and Phoenicia began ignoring Assyrian directives. Other petty kingdoms joined the rebellion against Assyria, and in 623 the well led Chaldean army drove north from around Sumer and expelled the Assyrians from Babylon.

With the independence of Egypt and Babylon, and a weakened Assyria, the new king of Judah, Josiah — the grandson of Manasseh — declared Judah independent. The hereditary Yahweh priesthood, which had suffered a loss of status during Assyrian domination, seized independence as an opportunity to advance its cause. With the support of Josiah and the zeal of the newly liberated, they moved against the religious influences that had gained ascent during Assyria’s domination.

The Yahweh priesthood claimed to have found in a secret archive within Solomon’s temple a scroll signed by Moses — a document to become known as the Book of the Covenant. (2 Chronicles 34:1) How a work of such importance as Moses’ scroll had been lost or misplaced and forgotten for the two hundred years since the building of Solomon’s temple, remains a mystery. King Josiah treated the scroll as genuine. He supported the Yahwist priests, and he complained that previous generations had not listened to Yahweh. Now began an official intolerance that had not been the policy of kings David, Solomon, Jeroboam, Ahab, Jehu and Manasseh. According to the Old Testament, king Josiah, accompanied by a great crowd, went to Solomon’s temple and there made a covenant with Yahweh. Josiah ordered all objects of worship that were not Yahwist taken from Solomon’s temple, and these were burned in a field outside Jerusalem.

The high priest of Yahwism ordered lesser priests to Jerusalem, and he issued a new code that forbade all subjects of Josiah to practice religious rituals of “foreign” origin. According to the Old Testament, the code’s proscriptions included religious ordeals of passing through fire. It included practicing witchcraft, sorcery, using omens, worshiping images of gods in wood or stone, and it included a prohibition against orgiastic fertility festivals — festivals held in the spring and autumn that were accompanied by mass drunkenness and religious frenzy. The new code forbade all religious worship outside of Solomon’s temple. Temples outside of Jerusalem were rendered unusable. The new code forbade human sacrifices. According to the Second Book of Kings (23:10), Josiah defiled a place called the “Topheth”, a word meaning drums, which had been beaten loudly to drown out the screams of children being burned to death in sacrificial offerings. And the new code forbade the sacred prostitution that had been attached to temples, including the homosexual prostitution that was a part of Ba’al fertility worship.

The penalty for adhering to any of the newly forbidden practices was death, and death was the punishment too for the priests of rival religions. According to the Second Book of Kings 23:20, king Josiah led the assault:

And all the priests of the high places who were there he slaughtered on the altars and burned human bones on them.

Those who had been indulging in the now forbidden religious practices were great in number, and their religious practices had become habits not easily surrendered. And rather than try to force people to completely eradicate all of their old habits, the priests gave Josiah’s subjects a new meaning to various rituals that could fit with Yahweh worship. In the place of human sacrifices, animal sacrifices were to be performed. Instead of fertility festivals, they would engage in festivals that demonstrated their gratitude and devotion to Yahweh. The most important of these festivals, the spring festival, became the Passover — a commemoration of the exodus from Egypt led by Moses.

Babylon and The Jewish Captives
Between Mesopotamia and the Caspian Sea, tribes of an Indo-European people called Medes had become united under a single king. A later king of the Medes, Cyaxares, reorganized his army and attempted to expand westward against the Assyrians. He allied his army with the Chaldeans, who were now in control of Babylon and Sumer. The Medes and Chaldeans attacked, and together they defeated the Assyrians, overrunning Assyria’s capital, Nineveh, in 612. Nineveh’s walls were broken by the siege engines that Assyria had introduced centuries before. A community that had existed for more than two thousand years was obliterated. Those who escaped from Nineveh took refuge in Haran, and they fought on, but they were defeated in 609. Such a terrible revenge was taken on the Assyrians that two hundred years later the area would was still sparely populated. And the Assyrian empire was forgotten.

The Medes conquered as far as the Halys River in Asia Minor. The Chaldeans conquered as far as Cilicia and the Taurus Mountains. Meanwhile, with the demise of Assyria a revitalized Egypt felt free to move into Palestine. And when King Josiah heard that an Egyptian army was coming, he went south with an army to do battle against them, believing that Yahweh would protect him. Instead, he was promptly killed.

A contributor to the Old Testament’s Second Book of Chronicles was to claim that Yahweh had failed his faithful servant Josiah because Josiah had neglected to listen to Egypt’s pharaoh proclaim that Egypt was moving with Yahweh’s help, not against Judah but against others. But the Egyptians took control of Judah as Josiah had feared. They carried Josiah’s son and designated heir, Jehoahaz, back to Egypt and placed on Judah’s throne, as their puppet, his brother, Jehoiakim. Disaster was still seen as the result of displeasing the gods, and the Old Testament (2 Kings 23:29) describes Jehoahaz as it does other Hebrew victims: as having done evil in the eyes of the Lord.

The Chaldeans Overrun Judah
The Hebrews continued to suffer the misfortune of living on a bridge of land between great, imperial powers. The Chaldeans saw Egypt as a rival to be reckoned with. Their army went against the Egyptians in Syria. They drove the Egyptians back to Egypt, and while doing so they conquered Judah. In 587, eleven years later, the people of Jerusalem rebelled against Chaldean rule, and the Chaldeans responded by burning Jerusalem and tearing down its walls. Only remnants of the temple that Solomon built remained, never to be rebuilt. The Chaldeans rounded up about forty thousand from Judah as captives, including political leaders and high priests, and took them to their capital, Babylon, while some people from Judah fled into Egypt or into Arabia, and some went north into Chaldean controlled Mesopotamia.

Again many Hebrews saw Yahweh as having abandoned them. Some Hebrews believed that the god of the Chaldeans, Marduk, had defeated Yahweh. Contributors to the Old Testament would describe Judah’s loss of independence as more of Yahweh’s punishment for his people failings. The Old Testament would describe another prophet, Jeremiah, as having warned the people of Judah about their failure to obey Yahweh and of their failure to achieve economic and social justice — something lacking across all of civilization.

Yahweh as the Only God, and Awaiting Deliverance
The Hebrews who fled from Judah and went to Mesopotamia were allowed to settle where they wished and to take up whatever occupation they chose. These Hebrews found in Mesopotamia a prosperity that the priests of Yahweh had claimed Yahweh would provide them in Judah. Some of these Hebrews became farmers. Some prospered as merchants, rent collectors, contractors or bankers. Some among them adopted local names, converted to the worship of local gods and were content to remain in Mesopotamia permanently.

Those who were taken to Babylon as captives were also allowed to live according to their customs, including a freedom to worship Yahweh. These captives found Babylon a magnificent city compared to what they had known in Jerusalem. Like some other devout people who were to arrive in a big city people, they found Babylon filled with wickedness and temptation, and in combating these temptations they clung desperately to their worship of Yahweh. Believing like others that gods dwelled in places, the captives in Babylon asked themselves how they could “sing the Lord’s song in a foreign land?” (Psalms 137:4) They wondered whether Yahweh had accompanied them to Babylon. And some among them claimed that they could feel Yahweh’s presence among them.

Prior to their exile, worshipers of Yahweh had seen him as one of many gods. The Old Testament’s Book of Deuteronomy, 10:17, describes Yahweh as saying to Moses: «For the Lord your God is the God of gods». The worshipers of Yahweh had seen Yahweh as other peoples saw their god: as territorial, as ruling from a place. But now, in Babylon, they heard derision spoken against Yahweh and they responded defensively. Was not Yahweh, they asked, the god who had formed and made the earth? They concluded that rival gods were false and that Yahweh was the only true god. A late entry in the Book of Isaiah, amid descriptions of the captives in Babylon, would state the issue of Yahweh and other gods differently than is expressed in Deuteronomy: «There is no other god besides me…», it reads. «There is none but me.» (Isaiah 45:21.)

The captive worshipers of Yahweh found community and consolation in regular meetings that differed from what they had known in Judah. There was no temple and no altar at which they could worship, and their worship gave new emphasis to prayer, fasts, confession, and study. Believing that their exile was punishment for their sins, they hoped that their faith and dedication to Yahweh would win for them Yahweh’s forgiveness. They prayed for redemption and for Yahweh to allow them to return to Judah and to restore their homeland. They prayed for a king — a word that in Hebrew translates to messiah. The captive worshipers of Yahweh prayed not for a meek or suffering messiah but a man of strength like David, and preferably someone descended from David.

Persia, the Jews and Zoroastrianism
Alongside the Mede people, south of the Caspian Sea, was another Indo-European people: the Persians. The Persians had arrived from Central Asia sometime before 800 BCE, and they had come under the rule of the Medes. To weaken the Medes, the Chaldeans supported a Persian rebellion. A Persian prince, to be known as Cyrus II, led the rebellion, and some in the Mede army joined his rebellion. Cyrus and his army deposed the Mede king, and Cyrus united the Persians and Medes under his rule.

With Cyrus, the Chaldeans got more than they had bargained for: Cyrus was an able administrator and military leader. He consolidated his power over tribes in central Persia, and then he started building a greater empire. He moved his army of cavalry and light infantry into Asia Minor, and there, in 547, he overthrew King Croesus of Lydia, who had ruled all of Asia Minor west of the Halys River. Cyrus acquired Croesus’ great riches, and in name he acquired all of Croesus’ empire. The Greek cities on the western coast of Asia Minor submitted peacefully to Cyrus’ rule, but, in the more rugged terrain in southwestern Asia Minor, Cyrus’ generals had rebellions to crush.

Cyrus took annual tribute from the Greeks of Asia Minor while leaving them to their religion and customs. He connected his empire by a royal road that stretched from the city of Sardis in western Asia Minor to Susa, a road with post stations one day’s ride apart, with riders covering as many as 1600 miles in a week (9.5 miles per hour, 24 hours per day). For six years Cyrus embarked on more expeditions, his army conquering eastward from central Persia. And, occupying the trade route between Europe and the Far East, Cyrus’ empire prospered economically.

Persia Expands and Releases the Jewish Captives
Cyrus’ army was strengthened by warriors he had gained from newly conquered peoples, and he turned his greater army southward against the Chaldeans. He claimed that Babylon’s god, Marduk, had been awaiting a righteous ruler and that Marduk had called upon him, Cyrus, to become ruler of the world. The Old Testament gives a different interpretation of these events. It describes Cyrus as Yahweh’s agent and claims that Cyrus was stirred by Yahweh into taking revenge against Babylon’s wickedness and that Yahweh had «taken Cyrus by the right hand.» (Isaiah 45:1.)

In October 539, Babylon fell to Cyrus without a struggle. According to the Old Testament, the captive worshipers of Yahweh expected Cyrus to wreak Yahweh’s vengeance upon the wicked Babylonians. But Cyrus failed to punish Babylon, and the disappointed Yahwist captive’s found Cyrus honoring Babylon’s gods and treating Yahweh as just minor god of some distant place.

With his conquest of Babylon, Cyrus acquired rule of the Chaldean empire, and kings who had been vassals of the Chaldean king came and paid homage to him. A king of kings, Cyrus now ruled as far as Egypt. He saw himself as the benefactor of all those he ruled, and he permitted a captive named Zerubbabel — a descendant of one of Judah’s former kings — to lead forty thousand or so Jewish captives back to their homeland.

Some among the returning exiles believed that Yahweh had promised them good things to come, but in Jerusalem they found impoverishment, foreigners and few worshipers of Yahweh. Nearly half a century had passed since the exile from Jerusalem, and Zerubbabel found people in Jerusalem unwilling to accept his authority and resenting the intrusions of those returning from captivity. Those who returned to Jerusalem began laid a foundation for the new temple, but the hostility of local people and Yahweh’s failure to intervene on their behalf led them to abandon the project.

Cambyses and Darius the Great
In conquering Babylon, Cyrus acquired control over a vast trading network: through Canaan, Arabia to the Red Sea, Egypt and Africa. In his sixties, Cyrus sought additional territory farther east. In 529 he led his army across the Jaxartes River at the foot of the Hindu Kush mountains. There a queen called Tomyris, told him to rule his own people and to bear the sight of her ruling her’s. During this expedition, Cyrus died, and his son, Cambyses, succeeded him.

Cambyses tried to win glory to his name by conquering new territory, and after four years of preparation he conquered a portion of Egypt, bringing an end forever to the rule of the pharaohs. Cambyses absorbed the island of Cyprus, which surrendered to him voluntarily. Meanwhile, in Egypt, Cambyses scoffed at Egypt’s religion. His Persian religion opposed the worship of idols, and, to cure the Egyptians of what he saw as their superstitions, he had their idols burned. Cambyses is said to have killed with his dagger the bull representing the Egyptian god Apis and to have opened royal Egyptian tombs.

Cambyses’ stay in Egypt was disrupted by news of an attempted usurpation of his power in Persia. He had been away three years, and when he returned to Persia he found insufficient support against a formidable opposition. His death was reported as a suicide. And the Egyptians saw his death as the revenge of their gods.

The rising against Cambyses was led by Darius, an exceptionally able soldier and a member of Cyrus’ extended family — the Achaemenids. Darius had allied himself with some other aristocrats. A son of Cyrus — an heir to the throne — had been killed, and Darius claimed that it was Cambyses who had killed him. Darius presented himself as having thwarted a takeover by someone impersonating the murdered son, and he claimed that as a member of Cyrus’ family he was restoring legitimate rule. Not everyone accepted Darius’ claims, and in many places Darius had to combat uprisings and competing claims to the throne. Succeeding at this, Darius turned his attention to expanding the empire he had acquired. Stating that his god had chosen him as king of the entire world, Darius extended Persian rule in Egypt and beyond into what is now Libya. And, attracted by tribal divisions and wars in India, in 517 BCE he extended Persian rule through the Kyber Pass to the Indus River.

Darius made his capital Persepolis, in the south of Persia. He built highways, maintained postal service across his empire and encouraged commerce. He built a canal 150 feet wide, linking the Red Sea and the Nile. He reformed the empire’s money and revised its administration, dividing the empire into twenty provinces, called satrapies.

Darius carried with him a portrait of his beloved wife, Artystone. He respected the religions of the various peoples he ruled, and he wished for and won the good will of people across his empire. Inspired by the tradition of law that he found in Babylon, he codified what he believed were just laws for his empire, and he wanted the various peoples he ruled to have local laws that pertained to their own customs.

Religion and Other Customs among the Persians
Under the Achaemenid dynasty, before Darius, temples had appeared for the first time in Persia. Related to the Aryans who had invaded India, or a least having a language closely related to the Aryans, the Persians had gods similar to those found in the sacred Hindu Vedas. Having mixed with the Medes, among the Persians a Mede priesthood called the Magi had come to dominate their religion. The major god of the Medes was Zurvan, a god of time and destiny. Another god of the Persians was Mazda, whom Darius adopted in an effort to unify his empire. And in western Persia the god Mithra and goddess Anahita were also worshiped.

The Persians buried their dead above ground, their faith holding that a corpse defiled the earth. As a religious people they saw virtue in modest eating, in having only one meal a day and nothing to drink but water. They valued cleanliness and associated a lack of cleanliness with the devil and his diseases. Severe penalties were given to those thought to have spread disease by their uncleanness. And concern with the evils of the Devil led to stern laws against what the Persians saw as sinful sexuality, including masturbation, promiscuity and prostitution.

Etiquette was important to the Persians. Persians holding superior positions in society offered their cheeks to be kissed by those of a lower status, while equals embraced each other and kissed on the lips. The Persians thought it unbecoming to eat or drink anything in the street, or to spit, and like the Japanese today they thought it rude to blow one’s nose around others. And in this age of travel and contacts among people, Persians were described by others as a hospitable, generous, warm hearted, open, and honest in speech.

In keeping with their concern for others, Persian punishments for crimes were severe. The punishment for manslaughter was ninety strokes with a horsewhip. Capital crimes included treason, rape, sodomy, cremating or burying the dead, murder, accidentally sitting on the king’s throne, invading the king’s privacy or approaching one of his concubines. Death was administered by poisoning, stabbing, crucifixion, hanging, stoning, burying one up to his head, smothering one in hot ashes, crushing one’s head between huge stones or other methods of serving Mazda in his battle against the Devil.

Thus Spake Zarathustra
According to legend, Zoroastrianism had origins in a prophet named Zoroaster, also called Zarathustra, who appeared sometime after the Persians had arrived in Iran. It was said that when Zarathustra was born his laugh scattered the evil spirits that had been hanging around him as they did around all people. Legend claims that Zarathustra grew up with a love of wisdom and righteousness. It was said that when he was thirty he immersed himself in water during a spring religious festival and when he emerged in a state of purity he had a vision of a shining being who introduced himself as Good Purpose. According to the legend, Good Purpose took Zarathustra up a mountain to the great god, Mazda. And Zarathustra came down off the mountain with a message that he wished to preach to all humanity.

Legend describes Zarathustra as having had a vision of Mazda as all wise and the source of all justice and goodness, from which all other divine supporters of goodness emanated. Zarathustra perceived wickedness and cruelty as residing in Mazda’s adversary: the Devil. Here, according to Zarathustra, was the answer to why righteous people suffered.

According to Zarathustra, when Mazda and the Devil first met, Mazda created life and the Devil created its opposite: death. Thereafter, according to Zarathustra, a struggle took place between Mazda and the Devil. Zarathustra described Mazda’s goodness and creation of life as the force of light, and he described the Devil as the ruler of darkness, including the world of hell under the earth. Zarathustra described the Devil as the leader of all the evil spirits that hovered in the air, tempting people to commit crime and sin. He described the Devil as creating not only darkness but winter, ants, locusts, vermin, serpents, sin, sodomy, menstruation and the other plagues of life that had ruined the paradise into which Mazda had placed the first humans.

According to Zarathustra, in the great battle between Mazda and the Devil, people were responsible for their thoughts, and, in choosing between right and wrong, people became their own saviors. Zarathustra called people to a rigid discipline to support Mazda’s goodness. And he claimed that in this struggle between right and wrong, every man, woman and child had a guardian angel that was under Mazda’s leadership — an angel that helped them achieve virtue.

According to legend, people ridiculed Zarathustra and persecuted him. But then a king was converted to Zarathustra’s teachings, and the religion of Zarathustra spread. When this might have hapened is unknown, for none of the Persian kings mentioned Zoroaster in their inscriptions nor mentioned supernatural beings that were unique to Zoroastrianism, and the early Zoroastrians left no records. Long after Zarathustra, Zoroastrians priests declared writing unfit for Zarathustra’s holy words, but the Zoroastrian priesthood did leave a legend of Zarathustra’s death. Zarathustra, they said, was consumed by a flash of lightening.

The Optimism of the Zoroastrians
Zoroastrians did not see evil as inherent in nature or inherent in the human body. They saw nature as good because of the power of their god Mazda, whom they thought stronger than the Devil and omnipotent except for the temporary battle he was facing with the Devil. Zoroastrians were optimistic, believing that Mazda’s triumph was assured. They believed that the birth of Zarathustra had been the beginning of a final epoch that was to last three thousand years — ending perhaps around the year 2000 CE. They believed that Mazda’s message would be carried throughout the world, that those who followed the Devil’s lies would dwell in darkness and misery, that the final epoch would end with the pronouncement of a Last Judgment and the utter destruction of the Devil and all his forces of evil. They believed that with this ending would come a great resurrection of all good souls and that all good people (the followers of Truth) would cross the bridge into Mazda’s kingdom, free of decay, old age and death.

The New Jewish State
Judah was fifty miles at its widest point and one hundred miles long — a small land within the Persian Empire. There, the Persians allowed Zerubbabel and his priesthood subordinate authority over Judah’s internal affairs. One member of this priesthood, Jehozadek, spoke around 520 BCE of the people of Judah having harvested little, not having enough food to satisfy their hunger nor enough clothing for warmth (Haggai 1:6). He blamed this on their own errancy, and he called for a renewed effort at rebuilding Solomon’s temple, which he believed would strengthen them spiritually.

After permission was received from Darius, work on the temple began, and it was finished in 516. It was a meager structure compared to the temple Solomon had built, but the temple’s opening ceremony was grand. It included the sacrifice of one hundred bulls, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs and twelve male goats — paid for by Darius. (Ezra 6:17.)

As is written of Cyrus in the Book of Isaiah, 44:28 and 45:1, the Yahweh priesthood looked kindly upon Persia’s kings. For Cyrus had freed the Hebrew captives, and Cyrus and his successors had protected them from the aggressions of others and allowed them to worship their own god. The Persians and the Yahweh priesthood, moreover, believed in one supreme god, and both stressed morality and a strict adherence to a code of laws.

Persian officials and their families were stationed in Judah, and in Judah were colonies of Persian merchants. With them in Judah were Persian temples and priests. And with the good feelings of Yahwists toward the Persians, Yahwists might have been open to receiving religious ideas from the Persians. Not known to have been a part of Yahweh worship before the coming of the Persians were hierarchies of angels, demons in conflict, Satan as an independent and evil force rather than an agent of Yahweh, reward and punishment after death, the immortality of the soul, the coming of a final judgment ending in a fiery ordeal and resurrection of the dead. It appears that the aristocratic Yahwist priesthood — the Sadducees — resisted these ideas and that commoners in Judah accepted them — ideas to be championed by those to be known as Pharisees.

Satan and the Book of Job
In the sacred writings of the Yahwists, Satan had not been a ruler over evil. In the Old Testament’s Book of Numbers, Satan is described as an angel (from the Greek word angelos), as a messenger and a bringer of unexpected obstacles, sent by God to obstruct wrongful activity. And in the Book of Job this Satan appears again as one of Yahweh’s obedient servants, an angel messenger, sent to test Job’s devotion to Yahweh, a test to see if Job would blame and curse Yahweh.

The story of Job attempts to resolve the problem of Yahweh being well meaning and powerful while those loyal to him suffer. Job is described as a wealthy man, with “7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yokes of oxen and 500 female donkeys”, the kind of man the prophet Amos might have despised. But the Book of Job describes him as a good man: devout and fearing Yahweh. Job is advised by a friend that the innocent do not perish and that the upright are not destroyed, that whoever sows trouble harvests it. The message for Job is to be patient, that if he endures his suffering Yahweh will do right by him. Job endures and is faithful to Yahweh, and Yahweh restores his good fortunes.

The Book of Esther
Because of its account of the rule of Xerxes (from 486 to 465 BCE), the Book of Esther appears to have been written sometime after the early 400s, perhaps as late as the 100s BCE. In the Book of Esther, the Persian monarch, Ahasuerus, dumps his queen, Vashti, and marries Esther, a young Jewish woman. Esther’s cousin and foster-father, Mordecai, warns the Persian monarch that a plot is afoot against his royal life. A Persian grand vizier, Haman, who opposes Mordecai, convinces the monarch to decree death against Mordecai and other Jews in his empire, selected by lot, on a certain date. The queen, Esther, intervenes, and the Grand Vizier is instead hanged. Mordecai is made grand vizier in his place. And on the day that Jews were to be executed, they defend themselves and slay as many as seventy-five thousand.

Among Persian writings no record of any queen named Esther or a Persian minister named Mordecai or Haman has been found. Esther is an Aramaic name for the goddess Ishtar. Mordecai means worshiper of Marduk. The story of Esther resembles an ancient Persian story about the shrewdness of Harem queens. The description in the Book of Esther of the parade through the streets dressed in royal robes, the mock combat and other happenings are similar to the Persian celebration of the New Year. This celebration had mock combat between one team representing the old year and other team representing the New Year, with the old year being hanged in effigy. Apparently, Jews also took part in this New Year celebration, and eventually the story of Esther had been invented to explain the celebration and to turn it into a Jewish celebration — much as Christians were to change pagan holidays into Christian holidays.

Artaxerxes and Ezra
Darius spent his later years at his palace enjoying his expanded harem, which had women of various races. In 486, at the age of sixty-four, he fell ill and died, and he was succeeded by his son Xerxes, who ruled for twenty-one years. Under Xerxes, some women at court acquired great influence, and jealousies surrounded him. Then a eunuch commander of the guard conspired with others and assassinated Xerxes and Xerxes’ first son. The conspirators put on the throne another of Xerxes’ sons: an eighteen-year-old named Artaxerxes, the son of a foreign woman from the royal harem. Artaxerxes asserted his authority and had the eunuch commander executed. And Artaxerxes ruled over the vast Persian Empire for forty-two years.

Like Darius, Artaxerxes was interested in the peoples of his empire remaining orderly under their local laws and religion. He appointed as Judah’s new governor a Yahwist scholar and priest named Ezra, who had been living in Babylon, and he instructed Ezra to appoint magistrates and judges who would keep Judah in the laws of its god, Yahweh.

According to the Old Testament, Ezra and a following of eighteen hundred males moved to Judah. And what Ezra found must have been far from what he had expected, for when he arrived he tore at his hair, his beard, his garment, his robe, and he sat down appalled. He found that the Hebrews of Judah had not separated themselves from other peoples and that they had been practicing “abominations”.

Ezra wanted to separate the worshipers of Yahweh from foreign influences and to advance their identity as a community of worshipers of Yahweh. He called the people of Jerusalem to assemble, and he told the assembly that new demands would be put upon them. Judah was to become a Yahwist state and its people to be considered one people. Ezra ordered foreign women expelled from the community. He commanded that no one could marry any of the foreign women and that any man who had already married such a woman must expel her from his house.

Already the people of Judah were a mix of peoples. Solomon himself had been the son of a woman described as a Hittite: Bathsheba. Nevertheless, Ezra was concerned with lineage of the Yahwist priesthood, and he purged from the priesthood those who could not prove that they were descended from purely Hebrew families. But rather than attempt to extend this stricture to those who were not priests, he made observance of Yahwist practices the deciding issue whether one belonged to his community — beginning what would eventually be Judaism’s racial tolerance. Judaism — a word associated with the word Judah — was a faith based on the worship of Yahweh and adherence to Yahweh’s laws as described in the Moses legend. And, like most other religions at this time, rather than evangelistic, its concern was essentially with its own community.

Judah’s New Laws
Ezra’s laws were Yahweh’s laws, just as Hammurabi’s laws were Marduk’s laws. And Ezra’s laws included the traditional eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But the custom of an entire family being considered guilty for the act of any one of its members was discarded in favor of individual responsibility: the father was to continue to have supreme authority within the family, but a father would not be punished for the sins of a son, or a son for the sins of the father.

Marriage was strictly regulated as before. Fathers were to arrange the marriages of their sons and daughters without their consent. Marriage was recognized as the basis of a family, and marital promises were supported by the harshest of measures: if an engaged woman copulated with another man, both she and the man were to be stoned to death; if a married man or a married woman committed adultery they were to be stoned to death — unless the man copulated with a slave, in which case he was merely beaten. (Leviticus 19:20.)

If a father found his son stubborn, rebellious and disobedient, he could take him to the city elders, and then the son could be stoned to death. In a dispute that went to court, the man judged wicked would be whipped, but no more than forty times. If a man had two wives and one was loved and the other unloved and the unloved one gave birth to the first son, that son would remain favored as the first son. If a neighbor needed help with his stray oxen, sheep or donkeys, one should help him. And one should not move a neighbor’s boundary marker.

The Jewish priesthood expected people to look after their health by following Judaic law. Touching the dead or touching persons having certain types of ailments was prohibited. To clean a leper, one was obliged to sacrifice a male lamb to Yahweh and to sprinkle the patient with the blood of a bird mixed with running water. In the Old Testament’s Book of Leviticus, Yahweh is described as giving laws to Moses that rejected Canaanite ways. Moses is described as prohibiting the wearing of garments made of both linen and wool or garments with tassels, as was custom among the Canaanites. And it was written that one should not eat pork or any animal that did not both chew its cud and have cloven feet. Pork had been the major source of meat among the Canaanites, who, having been a settled people could raise pigs. The nomadic Hebrews had raised sheep and goats, which, unlike pigs, could be herded over long distances. And, with pork having been a food eaten by the detested Canaanites and not traditional among Hebrews, it had been described as unclean, although there is no evidence that the Canaanites suffered from eating their pigs anymore than the Hebrews suffered from eating their sheep or goats.

The Five Books of Moses
Apparently by the time that Ezra was in Judah, the first five books of the Old Testament were assembled: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. These books were declared to have been written by Moses himself, inspired by God. In Hebrew they were called the Torah of Moses. They appear to have been assembled with national unity in mind, as a compilation of the history of the Jewish people, with a clear distinction between the people favored by Yahweh and the outsiders detested by Ezra. Included was the long list of who begat whom that expressed Ezra’s concern about lineage, and also included were the priestly matters and legalities about which Ezra was concerned. Not included among the books were those writings that supported one group or another rather than the Jewish nation as a whole, writings that were later to be described as apocrypha (hidden things) and pseudopigrapha (falsely attributed writings).

Wisdom and the Book of Proverbs
Among the sacred writings of the Hebrews were The Proverbs. Legend held that Solomon was its author, but some Biblical scholars believe that Proverbs may have been written after the year 400 BCE. Proverbs begins with the statement that “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”. From there, Proverbs advises its readers to avoid being enticed by greed into joining with others in thievery and mugging. Do not envy sinners, it states. «Drink water from your own well. Pay your debts, and fear the Lord.» By fearing the Lord, it claims, one acquires security and wisdom. Integrity, it states, brings security, and hatred and arrogance stir up strife. Be kind and true, Proverbs admonishes. «Trust the Lord with all your heart.» If you honor the Lord «your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will overflow with new wine.» Do not weary yourself to gain wealth. Wisdom and a good name are better than silver and gold. Do not boast about tomorrow. Do not slander a slave to his master. Be good to your neighbors. Smell good for the sake of others. Do not be enticed by an absent neighbor’s wife. Do not associate with one given to anger. And wives, do not be idle, and be happy in your work.

The Jews Await a Great King
The prosperity that the followers of Yahweh had expected continued to elude them. In and around Jerusalem poverty continued, and famine appeared. As described in the Book of Nehemiah, 5:1-5, the poor protested:

We are mortgaging our fields, our vineyards, and our houses that we might get grain because of the famine… We have borrowed money for the king’s tax on our fields and our vineyards. And now our flesh is like the flesh of our brothers, our children like their children. Yet behold, we are forcing our sons and our daughters to be slaves. And some of our daughters are forced into bondage already, and we are helpless because our fields and vineyards belong to others.
The priests who governed Judah after Ezra attempted economic and social reforms. As described in the Book of Deuteronomy, usury within the community of Hebrews was prohibited, but usury against non-Hebrews was allowed. As a part of these reforms, every seventh year debts were to be abolished. And every seventh year, fellow Jews who had been enslaved were to be set free — while the slavery of others was to remain. And adversity and hardship continued among the Jews. Suffering Jews continued to look nostalgically to the glorious days of King David. And they looked forward to Yahweh bringing them another great king — a messiah — like David.

Copyright © 1998 by Frank E. Smitha. All rights reserved.

fullfathomfive

15-08-2007, 03:23 PM

Hiya Snoopsnuffleopagus

Back to Melchizedek. What do you think about the theory he was a priest of Zedek, a Canaanite god?

snoopsnuffleopagus

15-08-2007, 04:00 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

First and Foremost it would aid the subject of discussion if you would provide the Book, chapter and Verse. I have done, 'Reverse Engineering' searching references for Melchizedek, Zadok, and Zedekiah.

Zedekiah was a 'False Prophet' who had a dismal end

Book of Hebrews: 5:5 So the Messiah did not take upon Himself the glory of becoming a High Priest, but Yahweh said to Him: "You are my Son, today I have begotten you;

5:6 As He also says in other Scripture: You are a priest forever after the order after Melchizedek.

My earlier citations of verses from the Book of Genesis, illustrate, Melchezedek is a Priest of Yahweh.

Please provide Book, Chapter and Verse for the example you have provided.

Very Kind Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus.

Information about Melchizedek may be found in the Book of Yahweh:Genesis:14:18....Psalm 110:4.......Book of Hebrews: Chapter 5:6...5:10...6:20......7:1.... 7:10...7:11...7:15...7:17....7:21

And many adjacent verses have inferences, reference, to Melchizedek

fullfathomfive

15-08-2007, 04:36 PM

Hiya Snoopsnuffleopagus

What is the Book of Yahweh's slant on Genesis 14:18-20?

Do you agree Melchizedek was a Jebusite and polytheist? The Jebusites were Canaanites with Zedek among their pantheon.

Do you think zedek/tzedek refers to justice/righteousness?

snoopsnuffleopagus

15-08-2007, 05:07 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfatomfive!:

By no means is Melchizedek a 'Polytheist", as Yahweh is One, unique in the Universe, there is none, no-one like Him. Pure monotheism. A High Priest of Yahweh.

Yahweh is not an 'El' nor is He the plural, 'Elohim'

The Yebusites are desendants of one of Noahs children, as are all Canaanites. Though informed of Yahweh, many of these descendants chose to worship any number of gods.

Myself, I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic, upon my own research of many doctrines and 'schools of thought', I now make informed decisions that are in conflict with RCC doctrine.

Was Melchizedek born into a 'polytheistic' society, probably. Was he later to come to his own conclusions, scripture indicates this.

Ghengis Khan converted many tribes and peoples from 'polytheism to monotheism'. This occured many years after Abraham and Melchizedek interacted.

Remember: Abraham was instucted as to the Laws of Yahweh, and paid Tithes to Melchizedek, a King and High Priest of Yahweh

Neither Abraham(nor any Saint or Prophet of Yahweh), or Melchizedek, were, are, or will be, 'Polytheistic. None of them worship or serve the Els or Elohim.

Please share source of your theory, whatever Book, as I would liketo view the exact Text.

Thank you and kind regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

15-08-2007, 05:23 PM

It's not my theory. These are just questions I've thought of while reading through many internet sources too numerous to mention (some scholastic, some ludicrous). Thank you for your answers. I'm finding it hard to find information on a Canaanite god known as Zedek. Do you have any?

snoopsnuffleopagus

15-08-2007, 05:44 PM

Peace & Greetings fullfathomfive!:

My brief searches found: Zadok, a sadducee, pre-Hellenism: not applicable

Zedekiah, a false prophet: not applicable

Zedekias, Doctrine of the Kabbala: not applicable

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

fullfathomfive

15-08-2007, 06:11 PM

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=383&letter=M

Was Melchizedek a generic title or an individual? I've found several references to 'Zedek' as Jupiter (the planet) - the above link mentions it too.

Could Melchizedek have been a generic term for a priest/king/astrologer or an individual as such?

I'm in a questioning mood today.

james777

15-08-2007, 08:07 PM

Krishna Venta gave birth to himself as a new incarnation of Jesus Christ in 1951, after long, arduous troubles with the law and a long string of failures in other more mundane endeavors. The messiah had been born in San Francisco in 1911 under the 'earth name' of Francis Pencovic, and it was under that name that he had studied theology. In 1941, while living in Pheonix, AZ, he was held and questioned by the police for allegedly writing a threatening letter to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Later he transformed himself to 'Frank Jensen' and committed a number of petty thefts and burglaries. It was sometime after he had been placed in a hospital for psychiatric evaluation that he received the supernatural word that he should metamorphose himself once again--this time to 'Krishna Venta'

Once he had convinced himself that he was the 'Son of God', it didn't take him long to convince others of his divine credentials. The mystic, resplendent in his yellow robes, persuaded his followers that in 1932 he had teleported himself to the United States from the 'Valley of the Masters' below Mt. Everest. He had lived in Nepal for centuries, having originally arrived on earth in a spaceship from the planet 'Neophrates'. He told his disciples that he was ageless.

synergy777

16-08-2007, 12:55 PM

james whatever you are smoking, its dam good bro, lol. krishna is the arcehtype all religions have used. hinduism was the worlds first religion, everything else follow its.

james777

16-08-2007, 04:09 PM

james whatever you are smoking, its dam good bro, lol. krishna is the arcehtype all religions have used. hinduism was the worlds first religion, everything else follow its.

LOL....apparently, I'm speaking about a different Krishna.......

synergy777

16-08-2007, 04:52 PM

was going through indian names, and finding if they had a celtic equivalent, heres quick list.

indian/celtic surnames

mann/mann, baines/baines, gill/gill, murthy/murphy, dhillon/dillon, paisley. also kahn/khan

firstnames

kiran/keiran/karen, tara, sharon, dravid/david, jay as in sanjay etc, ali, ramesh/hamish, etc

http://www.clannada.org/culture_philistines.php
Auraicept claims that Fenius Farsaidh discovered four alphabets, the Hebrew, Greek and Latin ones, and finally the Ogham, and that the Ogham is the most perfected because it was discovered last.

sanskrit = hebrew = latin/greek = ogham/gaelic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Ancestry_of_Jatt_Names

sakas = scythians = migrated into persia, iran/arya then to iberia then finally eire/ayra.

http://dedanaan.com/untilled-fields-of-irish-history/a-celtic-chronology/
Indo-European progenitors of the Celts

http://www.jattworld.com/portal/modules/mysections/article.php?lid=36&page=3

History and Study of the Jats - Dr B.S. Dhillon : history of the Alans, Sarmatians, Scythians, Etc.

http://www.iranian.com/History/2005/March/Gutians/

Abstract

Historic Kurdistan as ancient Gutium. Describing the Descent of modern Kurds from legendary Gutians of Yore. Relation of the Jats with the Gutians & Goths. Disclosing the Gutians to be a branch of the Getae, Goths or Jats of Punjab, and hence of Scythian or East Iranic race. Their relationship with the Tocharians or Thakurs. Red-haired Features of Gutians. Connections of the Gutians with the Goths. Relations of Gutians with the Tokharians. Sumerian Renaissance under the Heroic Gutians. Peak of Sumeria & Gutian Golden Age under Gudea. Linguistic evidence for Gutian descent of Kurds. Refutation of views of self-hating Kurds and Anti-Kurdish scholars.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/DOCs/JG&EI_The_Gypsy_5.doc

http://www.imninalu.net/Eurasians.htm

synergy777

18-08-2007, 01:08 AM

Kalki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Hindu traditions, Kalki (Sanskrit: कल्कि; also rendered by some as Kalkin and Kalaki) is the tenth and final Maha Avatara (great incarnation) of Vishnu the Preserver, who will come to end the Kali Yuga, (The Age of Darkness and Destruction). The name Kalki is often a metaphor for "Eternity" or "Time". The origins of the name probably lie in the word Kalka which refers to "dirt", "filth" or "foulness" and hence denotes the "Destroyer of Foulness", "Destroyer of Confusion", "Destroyer of Darkness", or "The Annihilator of Ignorance". Other similar and divergent interpretations based on varying etymological derivations from the ancient Sanskrit language, including one simply meaning "White Horse", have been made.[1]

In the Buddhist Kalachakra tradition, some 25 rulers of the legendary Shambhala Kingdom have the title of Kalki, Kulika or Kali-king

synergy777

18-08-2007, 01:33 AM

http://think-aboutit.com/atlantis/atlantean_origin_of_the_seven_sacraments.htm

THE ATLANTEAN ORIGIN OF THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS

Introduction
In the Bible, as in India, myths are never told in detail, but only in tiny flashes which recall the twinkle of a star, the fall of a meteor or the avatar of a god in a transitory theophany. Only when highly allegorized and, hence, incomprehensible, are myths ever told in any detail. They are then peddled as the actual history of personages such as Jesus, Zoroaster, Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Buddha, etc..

However, the several flashes are the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, and fit together serendipitously when demythologized and integrated with each other. All religions — ours included — center on the story of Atlantis (Eden) and of its Fall (Adam's) and destruction by the Flood, as well as on the hope of its rebirth at the Millennium.

We have shown elsewhere in detail how "Christ" is a personification of Atlantis. And so are his many aliases such as Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, St. John, etc.. We have also demonstrated in detail that all our Christian rituals and beliefs — whose objective and meaning we forgot long ago — ultimately derive from India and reenact the history of Atlantis. Here we return briefly to the problem in order to moot out the importance of Atlantis as the source of all our myths and eschatological beliefs.

Let us consider first the Sacraments, keeping in mind that, mythically, all Saviours are one and the same, in different avatars. Thus, Adam, Christ, Krishna, Moses, Noah, Atlas, Shiva, etc., are just one and the same deity. Likewise, all religious traditions come from a single Tradition, which is the tradition of Atlantis and Lemuria. They are all part of the Urreligion that some anthropologists of genius have discerned as the original source of all religions, both primitive and evolved.

Before we proceed, however, some observations are in order, as they substantiate the case for the origin of our Christian Sacraments in India. India is the true site of Atlantis, and the link that re-links us back to our primordials in Paradise. First of all we note that the Sacraments are Seven. Seven is a Magic Number of great importance, whose Hindu origin can hardly be contested. Seven is the number of the Rishis (Hindu Patriarchs) from whom we descend, as well as the number of elapsed eras in Hinduism. But, above all, it is the number of dvipas, the counterpart of Paradise in Indian tradition.

The Sacraments are seven because seven is the sacred number of Elohim and of the Holy Ghost, his alias. Contrariwise, ten is the number of Jahveh, the god to whom we owe the Ten Commandments. Now, seven and ten are also the numbers of Atlantis and Lemuria. Ten is the number of Atlantis' Ten Princes, and seven is the number of the Islands that composed Lemurian Atlantis, as well as that of its Seven Prajapatis (or Patriarchs - Rulers).

In yet a different connection, we have the fact that the Sacraments of Christianism utilize four material supports: bread, wine, oil and water. Four is the number of the Hindu castes. It is far more than a coincidence that these four substances also represent the four varnas (castes). Bread is white like the heraldic color of the Brahmans it represents. Wine is red like blood, and characterizes the warlike Kshatriyas. Oil is yellow like the fat Vaishyas it symbolizes.

Finally, water is blue like the symbolic color of the Sudras or serfs. Indeed, the heraldic color of the Sudras is black. Black is confused in India with blue or purple, for traditional reasons. In reality, water symbolizes Death by drowning at the Flood, a form that results in a purple color for the dead. As we see, the four substances represent the contributions of the Four Races (or castes), as well as their respective elements, with oil representing Fire; water, Water; wine (spirit) representing Air and bread standing for the Earth, from which it grows.

The Four Elements are not indeed the ones that compose the material world, but those which destroy it when the eras come to their end. Fire, Water, Air and Earth allegorize the universal Conflagrations, Floods, Hurricanes and Earthquakes that either unite or work separately in order to destroy the world, when the time comes for it to happen. The same allegory is also symbolized by the Four Magian Kings — the three usual ones plus the fourth, Christ, to whom they came in order to pay their respect. Jesus is the Logos, the Word, the "Divine Breath" that corresponds to Wind.

In other words, Jesus represents the Brahman priests, issued from the mouth of Purusha, the Primordial Man, the intoners of the sacred mantras ("prayers"). The other three Kings are characterized by their gifts. Gold, the ruddy metal, represents the Kshatryas ("Reds" or "Warrior Caste"), in their pristine, undecayed condition. Myrrh is indeed musk (civet), the noblest form of "butter", the element that represents the Vaishyas (the Merchants or Burgeoisie). And, finally, incense, the burnt offering of excellency, represents the dark Sudras ("Serfs"), the "charred" element whose fate has been the cruel one of serving the other three castes.

So, those who can indeed read beyond the obvious, will have no difficulty in discerning in these Christian symbols — which make no sense whatsoever in Israel or even in the Ancient World — the antecedent ones of Hinduism: the Four Guardians ("Kings" or Lokapalas), the Four Castes, the Four Elements (or Principles or Races) of which the world was originally composed, in Paradisial times. Where else, but in primeval India — the true site of Atlantis — do you have the Four Races of Mankind, the Reds, Whites, Blacks and Yellows contending for supremacy in a war that eventually led to the world's destruction in the dawn of times?

more at the link

snoopsnuffleopagus

18-08-2007, 02:06 AM

Peace & Greetings Synergy777!

Blazing Saddles of Hell! With respect, I would like to explore this authors assertion that the 'christ' is the 'Logos' (word) as this presents the doctrine of the 'Pre-Existant Messiah', bedrock foundation of the 'Trinity', the doctrine that asserts Yahshua(the bonnie baby jesus) existed in Heaven with our Father before His birth to Miriam.

One 'School of Thought', based upon the tools of Forced Logic and Deductive Reasoning, and few incomplete manuscripts, asserts the 'New Testament' was written in Hebrew by Hebrew scribes.

In a Hebrew Text, the word Logos would be traced to Hebrew word Dabar.
Defined as Plan. Compare the well-known opening verses of Yahchanan Ben Zabdyah:

1:1 In the beginning was the plan of Yahweh, and the plan was with Yahweh, and the plan was Yahwehs.

1:2 The same plan was in the beginning with Yahweh

1:3 All things were done according to it, and without it nothing was done, that was done.

1:4 In this plan was Life, and that Life was the Light to Mankind.

1:5 Now that Light, shines in the Darkness, but the Darkness does not take hold of it.

Consider !:3 Very Sensible.

Throughout the Book of Yahweh, 'WORD' Logos, is often a meta-phor for the Law. Ex: Yahshua teaches we must live by every 'word' that comes out of Father Yahwehs Mouth. His Word is His Law.

Consider 1:4-5 LIGHT is a meta-phor for the Law

Every story in the Book of Yahweh illuminates the Law. 613 Laws, Judgements and Statutes.

And of course Yahshua, the embodiment of the Law was always part of Father Yahwehs Plan.

This is one way to look at it.

Very Kind Regards!: Snoopsnuffleopagus

Addendum: 7 is the number of Yahweh, Yahshua is not the Founder of Christianity(encyclopedia Judaica) House of Yahweh is Messianic Yahwism, nothing in common with Christianity, There are 613, Laws, Judgements and Statutes. Specificity is neccessary for instruction.

Recall: Rabbi Yahshua taught: Love Father Yahweh with all your Heart, Mind and Strength, and Love your Neighbor, these are the two greatest commandments because they CONTAIN all the rest of the Laws within them!

synergy777

18-08-2007, 02:12 AM

i will post tommorrow, i am tired now. jahveh/father, says it all.

some good ideas, but still discernment.

take care, see u tommorrow.

synergy777

21-08-2007, 05:58 PM

http://www.mondovista.com/abraham.html

Who Was ABRAHAM?

A paper by Gene D. Matlock, B.A., M.A.

In his History of the Jews, the Jewish scholar and theologian Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), wrote that the Greek philosopher Aristotle had said: "...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." (Book I:22.)

Clearchus of Soli wrote, "The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called 'Jerusalem.'"

"Megasthenes, who was sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, about three hundred years before Christ, and whose accounts from new inquiries are every day acquiring additional credit, says that the Jews 'were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...'" (Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins, Vol. I; p. 400.)

Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)

There are certain striking similarities between the Hindu god Brahma and his consort Saraisvati, and the Jewish Abraham and Sarai, that are more than mere coincidences. Although in all of India there is only one temple dedicated to Brahma, this cult is the third largest Hindu sect.

In his book Moisés y los Extraterrestres, Mexican author Tomás Doreste states,

Voltaire was of the opinion that Abraham descended from some of the numerous Brahman priests who left India to spread their teachings throughout the world; and in support of his thesis he presented the following elements: the similarity of names and the fact that the city of Ur, land of the patriarchs, was near the border of Persia, the road to India, where that Brahman had been born.

The name of Brahma was highly respected in India, and his influence spread throughout Persia as far as the lands bathed by the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. The Persians adopted Brahma and made him their own. Later they would say that the God arrived from Bactria, a mountainous region situated midway on the road to India. (pp. 46-47.)

Bactria (a region of ancient Afghanistan) was the locality of a prototypical Jewish nation called Juhuda or Jaguda, also called Ur-Jaguda. Ur meant "place or town." Therefore, the bible was correct in stating that Abraham came from "Ur of the Chaldeans." "Chaldean," more correctly Kaul-Deva (Holy Kauls), was not the name of a specific ethnicity but the title of an ancient Hindu Brahmanical priestly caste who lived in what are now Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Indian state of Kashmir.

"The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, was expelled from or left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.)

"He was of the religion or sect of Persia, and of Melchizedek."(Vol. I, p. 364.)

"The Persians also claim Ibrahim, i.e. Abraham, for their founder, as well as the Jews. Thus we see that according to all ancient history the Persians, the Jews, and the Arabians are descendants of Abraham.(p.85) ...We are told that Terah, the father of Abraham, originally came from an Eastern country called Ur, of the Chaldees or Culdees, to dwell in a district called Mesopotamia. Some time after he had dwelt there, Abraham, or Abram, or Brahma, and his wife Sara or Sarai, or Sara-iswati, left their father's family and came into Canaan. The identity of Abraham and Sara with Brahma and Saraiswati was first pointed out by the Jesuit missionaries."(Vol. I; p. 387.)

In Hindu mythology, Sarai-Svati is Brahm's sister. The bible gives two stories of Abraham. In this first version, Abraham told Pharaoh that he was lying when he introduced Sarai as his sister. In the second version, he also told the king of Gerar that Sarai was really his sister. However, when the king scolded him for lying, Abraham said that Sarai was in reality both his wife and his sister! "...and yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12.)

But the anomalies don't end here. In India, a tributary of the river Saraisvati is Ghaggar. Another tributary of the same river is Hakra. According to Jewish traditions, Hagar was Sarai's maidservant; the Moslems say she was an Egyptian princess. Notice the similarities of Ghaggar, Hakra and Hagar.

The bible also states that Ishmael, son of Hagar, and his descendants lived in India. "...Ishmael breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his kin... They dwelt from Havilah (India), by Shur, which is close to Egypt, all the way to Asshur." (Genesis 25:17-18.) It is an interesting fact that the names of Isaac and Ishmael are derive from Sanskrit: (Hebrew) Ishaak = (Sanskrit) Ishakhu = "Friend of Shiva." (Hebrew) Ishmael = (Sanskrit) Ish-Mahal = "Great Shiva."

A third mini-version of the Abraham story turns him into another "Noah." We know that a flood drove Abraham out of India. "...Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, Even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor; and they served other gods. And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan." (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Genesis 25 mentions some descendants of his concubine Ketura (Note: The Moslems claim that Ketura is another name of Hagar.): Jokshan; Sheba; Dedan; Epher. Some descendants of Noah were Joktan, Sheba, Dedan, and Ophir. These varying versions have caused me to suspect that the writers of the bible were trying to unite several different branches of Judaism.

About 1900 BC, the cult of Brahm was carried to the Middle and Near East by several different Indian groups after a severe rainfall and earthquake tore Northern India apart, even changing the courses of the Indus and Saraisvati rivers. The classical geographer Strabo tells us just how nearly complete the abandonment of Northwestern India was. "Aristobolus says that when he was sent upon a certain mission in India, he saw a country of more than a thousand cities, together with villages, that had been deserted because the Indus had abandoned its proper bed." (Strabo's Geography, XV.I.19.)

"The drying up of the Sarasvati around 1900 BCE, which led to a major relocation of the population centered around in the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys, could have been the event that caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece." (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p.14)

Indian historian Kuttikhat Purushothama Chon believes that Abraham was driven out of India. He states that the Aryans, unable to defeat the Asuras (The mercantile caste that once ruled in the Indus Valley or Harappans) spent so many years fighting covertly against the Asuras, such as destroying their huge system of irrigation lakes, causing destructive flooding, that Abraham and his kindred just gave up and marched to West Asia. (See Remedy the Frauds in Hinduism.) Therefore, besides being driven out of Northern India by floods, the Aryans also forced Indian merchants, artisans, and educated classes to flee to West Asia.

Edward Pococke writes in India in Greece,
"...in no similar instance have events occurred fraught with consequences of such magnitude, as those flowing from the great religious war which, for a long series of years, raged throughout the length and breadth of India. That contest ended by the expulsion of vast bodies of men; many of them skilled in the arts of early civilization, and still greater numbers, warriors by profession. Driven beyond the Himalayan mountains in the north, and to Ceylon, their last stronghold in the south, swept across the Valley of the Indus on the west, this persecuted people carried with them the germs of the European arts and sciences. The mighty human tide that passed the barrier of the Punjab, rolled on towards its destined channel in Europe and in Asia, to fulfill its beneficent office in the moral fertilization of the world.the distance of the migratory movement was so vast, the disguise of names so complete, and Grecian information so calculated to mislead, that nothing short of a total disregard of theoretic principles, and the resolution of independent research, gave the slightest chance of a successful elucidation."

(p. 28.)

If all these refugee ruling peoples were exclusively of Indian heritage,
why doesn't History mention them?
The exodus of refugees out of ancient India did not occur all at once but over a period of one or more thousand years. If all these refugee ruling peoples were exclusively of Indian heritage, why doesn't History mention them? Indeed they are mentioned as Kassites, Hittites, Syrians, Assyrians, Hurrians, Arameans, Hyksos, Mittanians, Amalekites, Aethiops (Atha-Yop), Phoenicians, Chaldeans, and many others. But we have been wrongly taught to regard them as ethnicities indigenous to Western Asia. Our history books also call them "Indo-Europeans," causing us to wonder where they were really from. "The people of India came to realize their social identity in terms of Varna and Jati (societal functions or caste); not in terms of races and tribes." (Foundations of Indian Culture; p. 8.)

Here's an example of how the ancient Indians identified people: The leaders were called Khassis (Kassites), Kushi (Kushites), Cossacks (Russian military caste) Caesars (Roman ruling caste), Hattiya (Hittites), Cuthites (a dialectical form of Hittite), Hurrite (another dialectical form of Hittite), Cathay (Chinese leaders), Kasheetl/Kashikeh among the Aztecs, Kashikhel/Kisheh by the Mayans, and Keshuah/Kush by the Incas. The Assyrians (in English), Asirios (in Spanish), Asuras or Ashuras (India), Ashuriya, Asuriya (Sumer and Babylonia), Asir (Arabia), Ahura (Persia), Suré in Central Mexico, etc., were people who worshipped Surya (the Sun).

Naturally, in areas where this religion prevailed, they were known as "Assyrians," no matter what the real names of their respective kingdoms were.

Another problem that western scholars have in identifying the Indo-Europeans as Indians is that India was not then and never was a nation. Furthermore, it is not "India." It is Bharata, and even Bharata is not a nation. Bharata is a collection of nations, just as Europe is a collection of nations, presently held together by the real or perceived threat of Moslem expansionism. Indian scholars have told me that when and if this expansionism ever disappears, the "Bharata Union" will again splinter into many smaller nations.

"The Arabian historians contend that Brahma and Abraham, their ancestor, are the same person. The Persians generally called Abraham Ibrahim Zeradust. Cyrus considered the religion of the Jews the same as his own. The Hindoos must have come from Abraham, or the Israelites from Brahma..." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 396.)

Was our Abraham Really the Hindu Deity Ram?

http://www.mondovista.com/abraham2.html

more at the link.

synergy777

21-08-2007, 11:43 PM

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Article/The_Lost_Lands_of_Mu_and_Lemuria.html

The Lost Lands of Mu and Lemuria
Was Australia Once Part of a Sunken Continent?

© By Brian Haughton

Lemuria and Mu are interchangeable names given to a lost land believed to have been located somewhere in either the southern Pacific or Indian Oceans. This ancient continent was apparently the home of an advanced and highly spiritual culture, perhaps the mother race of all mankind, but it sank beneath the waves many thousands of years ago as the result of a geological cataclysm of some kind.

The thousands of rocky islands scattered throughout the Pacific, including Easter Island, Tahiti, Hawaii and Samoa, have been claimed by some to be the only surviving remains of this once great continent. The theory of a lost continent in this area has been put forward by many different people, most notably in the mid 19th century by scientists in order to explain the unusual distribution of various animals and plants around the Indian and Pacific Oceans.

In the late 19th century occultist Madame Blavatsky reincarnated the idea of Lemuria as a lost continent / spiritual homeland and influenced a host of subsequent occultists and mystics including well known American psychic healer and Prophet Edgar Cayce. The popularisation of Lemuria / Mu as a purely physical place began in the 20th century with ex-British army officer Colonel James Churchward, and the idea still has many adherents today.

But is there any physical evidence to back up these claims of an ancient continent beneath the Pacific or Indian Ocean? Or should these ‘lost homeland’ stories be interpreted in another way entirely, perhaps as the symbol of a mythical vanished ‘Golden Age’ of man?

The Land of Mu

The idea of a lost continent known as ‘Mu’ in the Pacific Ocean does not actually have a particularly long history, neither is it mentioned specifically in any ancient mythologies as some writers have suggested. The title ‘Mu’ originated with eccentric amateur archaeologist Augustus le Plongeon (1826-1908), who was the first to make photographical records of the ruins of the archaeological site of Chichen Itza in Yucatán, Mexico. Plongeon’s credibility was badly damaged by his attempted translation of a Mayan book known as the ‘Troana Codex’ (also known as the ‘Madrid Codex’).

In his books Sacred Mysteries Among the Mayans and Quiches (1886) and Queen Moo and the Egyptian Sphinx (1896) Plongeon interpreted part of the text of the Troana Codex as revealing that the Maya of Yucatán were the ancestors of the Egyptians and many other civilisations. He also believed that an ancient continent, which he called Mu, had been destroyed by a volcanic eruption, the survivors of this cataclysm founding the Mayan civilisation. Plongeon equates Mu with Atlantis and states that a ‘Queen Moo’ originally from Atlantis, travelled to Egypt where she became known as Isis, and founded the Egyptian civilisation. However, Plongeon’s interpretation of the Mayan book is considered by experts in Mayan archaeology and history as completely erroneous, indeed much of what he interpreted as hieroglyphics turned out to be ornamental design.

Lemuria

‘Lemuria’, the alternative name for the lost continent, also originated in the nineteenth century. Ernst Heinrich Haeckel (1834-1919), a German naturalist and supporter of Darwin, proposed that a land bridge spanning the Indian Ocean separating Madagascar from India could explain the widespread distribution of lemurs, small, primitive tree-dwelling mammals found in Africa, Madagascar, India and the East Indian archipelago. More bizarrely, Haeckel also suggested that lemurs were the ancestors of the human race and that this land bridge was the “probable cradle of the human race.” ( indians call sri lanka, the garden of adam/eve")

Other well-known scientists, such as the evolutionist T.H. Huxley and the naturalist Alfred Russell Wallace, had no doubt about the existence of a huge continent in the Pacific millions of years previously, which had been destroyed in a disastrous earthquake that submerged it beneath the waves, much as Atlantis was thought to have been drowned.

Before the discovery of continental drift it was not unusual in the mid to late 19th century for scientists to propose submerged land masses and land bridges to explain the distribution of the world’s flora and fauna. In 1864, the English zoologist Philip Lutley Sclater (1829-1913) gave the hypothetical continent the name ‘Lemuria’ in an article ‘The Mammals of Madagascar’ in The Quarterly Journal of Science, and since then it has stuck.

The Geologists’ View

Zoologists and geologists now explain the distribution of lemurs and other plants and animals in the area of the Pacific and Indian Oceans to be the result of plate tectonics and continental drift. The theory of plate tectonics, and it is still a theory, affirms that moving plates of the Earth’s crust supported on less rigid mantle rocks causes continental drift, volcanic and seismic activity, and the formation of mountain chains. The concept of continental drift was first proposed by German scientist Alfred Wegener in 1912, but the theory did not gain general acceptance in the scientific community for another 50 years.

With this understanding of plate tectonics geologists now regard the theory of a sunken continent beneath the Pacific as an impossibility. They also point out that theories of lost lands in the Pacific mostly originate in the 19th century, when knowledge of the area was limited and well before the Pacific sea floor had been mapped.

Blavatsky’s Lemuria

The idea of Lemuria as something more than a physical place, or at least somewhere which had been inhabited by non-human entities before the appearance of man, derives from the writings of colourful Russian occultist Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (1831-1891). Blavatsky was the co-founder, together with lawyer Henry Steel Olcott, of the Theosophical Society, in New York in 1875. The Society was an esoteric order designed to study the mystical teachings of both Christianity and Eastern religions.

In her massive tome The Secret Doctrine (1888) Blavatsky describes a history originating millions of years ago with the ‘Lords of Flame’ and goes on to discusses five ‘Root Races’ which have existed on earth, each one dying out in an earth-shattering cataclysm. The third of these Root Races she called the ‘Lemurian’, which lived a million years ago, and who were bizarre telepathic giants who kept dinosaurs as pets.

The Lemurians eventually drowned when their continent was submerged beneath the Pacific Ocean. The progeny of the Lemurians was the fourth Root Race, the human Atlanteans, who were brought down by their use of black magic, their continent of Atlantis sinking beneath the waves 850,000 years ago. Present humanity represents the Fifth Root Race.

Blavatsky envisioned her Lemuria as covering a vast area. In her own words it stretched from

...the foot of the Himalayas, which separated it from the inland sea rolling its waves over what is now Tibet, Mongolia, and the great desert of Schamo (Gobi); from Chittagong, westward to Hardwar, and eastward to Assam. From thence, it stretched South across what is known to us as Southern India, Ceylon, and Sumatra; then embracing on its way, as we go South, Madagascar on its right hand and Australia and Tasmania on its left, it ran down to within a few degrees of the Antarctic Circle; when, from Australia, an inland region on the Mother Continent in those ages, it extended far into the Pacific Ocean...

Blavatsky also describes survivors of the catastrophic destruction of Lemuria escaping to become the ancestors of some of the Aboriginal tribes of Australia. She maintained that she took all of her information regarding Lemuria from ‘The Book of Dzyan’, supposed to have been written in Atlantis and shown to her by the Indian adepts known as ‘Mahatmas’.

Madame Blavatsky never claimed to have discovered Lemuria; in fact she refers to Philip Schlater coining the name Lemuria, in her writings. It has to be said that The Secret Doctrine is an extremely difficult book, a complex mixture of Eastern and Western cosmologies, mystical ramblings and esoteric wisdom, much of it not meant to be taken literally.

Blavatsky’s is the first ‘occult’ interpretation of Lemuria, but on one level it should not be equated with the physical continent later proposed by Churchward. What Blavatsky and other occultists since have suggested concerning Lemuria could be partly interpreted as an ideal spiritual condition of the soul, a kind of spiritual-historical vision.

Nevertheless, there are some psychics and prophets who even today regard the existence of ancient Lemuria / Mu as a physical reality. Indeed, there are a few who when ‘hypnotically regressed’ have recalled former lives as citizens on the doomed continent.

Lemuria and Australia

The writings of Blavatsky and other Theosophists about Lemuria, and the idea of Australia as part of this ancient lost continent and the scene of a lost golden age, had a significant influence on mystics and occultists in the country at the end of the 19th century.

Queensland-born novelist Rosa Campbell Praed represented Australia as the last remnant of ancient Lemuria and believed the myth of the lost continent to be based on fact. In Praed’s case, she used the theosophical idea of Lemuria to present an idealised primeval history of Australia, a land very different to the Queensland frontier country wracked by racial violence she had witnessed first-hand as a child.

Other evidence for this fascination with ancient Lemuria comes in the series of Australian adventure of the 1890s known as “the Lemurian novels.” In The Last Lemurian, written in 1898 by historian of Australian exploration and adventure-romance novelist George Firth Scott, the narrator Dick Halwood discovers the remains of legendary Lemuria out in the Australian desert, in a plot involving reincarnation, pygmies, a bunyip-monster, and an occult Yellow Queen.

John David Hennessey’s An Australian Bush Track (1896) calls Lemuria ‘Zoo-Zoo land’, and locates it somewhere in northern Queensland. Its inhabitants, the Zoo-Zooans, are a “remnant of a great nation which came there from some part of the mainland of Asia,” but had lost all the arts of high civilisation they once possessed. The Lost Explorer (1890) by James Francis Hogan has Lemuria as ‘Malua’, located in the centre of Australia, and ruled by the cannibalistic Queen Mocata, the last survivor of a superior race that once lived in “the interior of the great southern continent.”

The idea that Australia was once part of this lost Eden has also influenced those of a more practical bent, and attempts have been made to locate traces of Lemurian civilisation on both the west and east coasts of Australia.

Aboriginal art, artefacts and mythology have also been used to identify the Aborigines as prehistoric remnants of the Lemurians (following Blavatsky again), who somehow escaped the devastation of 20,000 or so years ago. Indeed, in some Theosophical publications of the first quarter of the 20th century Aborigines were described as the last of the Lemurians. However, the Aborigines of Australia had already been established on the continent for at least 30,000 years at the time of the supposed destruction of Lemuria, in fact they have perhaps the longest continuous cultural history of any people on Earth, so the theory of them having a Lemurian origin does not hold water.

Colonel James Churchward

The lost civilisation of Lemuria / Mu was brought dramatically back to public attention in 1931 with the publication of Colonel James Churchward’s bizarre The Lost Continent of Mu, the first in a series of five books by Churchward about the lost continent.

In the book he claimed that the lost continent of Mu had once extended from an area north of Hawaii southwards as far as Fiji and Easter Island. According to Churchward, Mu was the original Garden of Eden and a technologically advanced civilisation which boasted 64,000,000 inhabitants. Around 12,000 years ago Mu was wiped out by an earthquake and submerged beneath the Pacific. Apparently Atlantis, a colony of Mu, was destroyed in the same way a thousand years later. All the world’s major ancient civilisations, from the Babylonians and the Persians, to the Maya and the Egyptians, were the remains of the colonies of Mu.

Churchward claimed he received this sensational information when, as a young officer in India during a famine in the 1880s, he became friendly with an Indian priest. This priest told Churchward that he and two cousins were the only
survivors of a 70,000 year old esoteric order which originated on Mu itself. This order was known as the ‘Naacal Brotherhood’.

The priest showed Churchward a number of ancient tablets written by the Naacal Order in a forgotten ancient language, supposed to be the original language of mankind, which he taught the officer to read. Churchward later asserted that certain stone artefacts recovered in Mexico contained parts of the ‘Sacred Inspired Writings of Mu’, perhaps taking ideas from Augustus le Plongeon and his use of the Troana Codex to provide evidence for the existence of Mu.

Unfortunately, Churchward never produced any evidence to back up his exotic claims, he never published translations of the enigmatic Naacal tablets, and his books, though they still have many followers today, are perhaps better read as entertainment than factual studies of Lemuria / Mu.

Nan Madol

It was James Churchward who first posited the theory that the site of Nan Modal, on Pohnpei Island in the North Pacific Ocean, was one of the seven cities of ancient Mu / Lemuria.

The cyclopean ruins of Nan Modal, at one time a ceremonial centre covering 11 square miles, consist of around 90 small artificial islands built up out of a lagoon, and interlinked by a network of tidal canals. These islands, situated on the tidal flats southeast of Temwen Island, Micronesia, contain house foundations, sea walls – thirty feet tall in places, tunnels and burial vaults, all constructed entirely from prismatic basalt columns stacked crisscross like log cabins. These rocks weigh several tons on average, with the largest weighing 25 tons.

What makes the construction all the more remarkable is that the stone had to be transported some distance to the site, as no quarries have been found nearby, though they do exist elsewhere on the island. A clue to how this feat was achieved are crystal basalt columns discovered at the bottom of the lagoon near Temwen Island and on the shores of other islets in the area, which would suggest that the stones were transported by raft.

Modern Pohnpeians, on the other hand, believe the stones were flown over the island using black magic. Radio carbon dates and analysis of pottery from Nan Madol reveal that construction of the site began around 1200 CE, though the area may have been occupied from as early as 200 BCE. Such dates would certainly preclude any connection with Churchward’s Lemurians or their descendents.

At the beginning of the 13th century CE the island of Pohnpei is thought to have been conquered and unified by the mysterious ‘saudeleur’ dynasty, and it was then that the spectacular complex was constructed as a ceremonial and political seat for the new royal line. The saudeleur line was brought to an end in the 1500s by exiled Pohnpeian warrior, Isokelekel. The new chiefs, known as Nahnmwarki, occupied Nan Madol for a couple of hundred years, but by the 1800’s when the first Europeans arrived, the site was deserted. Why this happened remains one of the many mysteries of this incredible site.

The Kerguelen Continent

In the last twenty or so years submerged civilisations have once again been in the news due in particular to a number of intriguing underwater discoveries. In 1999 the Joint Oceanographic Institutions for Deep Earth Sampling (JOIDES) Resolution research vessel made an amazing discovery drilling in an area of the southern Indian Ocean about 3,000 km to the southwest of Australia.

The researchers discovered that an underwater plateau about a third the size of Australia, known as the Kerguelen Plateau, was actually the remains of a lost continent, which sank beneath the waves around 20 million years ago. The team found fragments of wood, a seed, spores and pollen, in 90 million year old sediment, as well as types of rocks associated with explosive volcanism.

One of the many fascinating points about the Kerguelen Plateau is that it contains sedimentary rocks similar to those found in India and Australia, which indicates that they were at one time connected. Scientists believe that around 50 million years ago, the continent may have had tropical flora and fauna, including small dinosaurs. With further research planned, the fascinating puzzle of the Kerguelen Plateau may yet resurrect the Lemuria debate.

Yonaguni Island and the Gulf of Cambay

In 1985 off the southern coast of Yonaguni Island, the westernmost island of Japan, a Japanese dive tour operator discovered a previously unknown stepped pyramidal edifice. Shortly afterwards, Professor Masaki Kimura, a marine geologist at Ryukyu University in Okinawa, confirmed the existence of the 183m wide, 27m high structure.

This rectangular stone ziggurat, part of a complex of underwater stone structures in the area which resemble ramps, steps and terraces, is thought to date from somewhere between 3,000 to 8,000 years ago. Some researchers have suggested these ruins are the remains of a submerged civilisation – and that the structures represent perhaps the oldest architecture in the world. Connections with Lemuria and Atlantis have also been mentioned.

However, some geologists, such as Robert Schoch of Boston University, and others with knowledge of the area, insist that the underwater ‘buildings’ are natural, mainly the result of ocean erosion and coral reef settlements and similar to other known geological formations in the region. Furthermore, archaeologists also point out that no man-made tools or weapons have been recovered from the site, which would indicate human settlement.

In December 2000 a team from the National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT) claimed to have discovered the remains of a huge lost city 36 metres underwater in the Gulf of Cambay, off the western coast of India. A year later further acoustic imaging surveys were undertaken and evidence recorded for apparent human settlement at the site, which included the foundations of huge structures, pottery, sections of walls, beads, pieces of sculpture and human bone. One of the wooden finds supposedly from the city has given a radiocarbon date of 7500 BCE, which would make the site 4,000 years earlier than the oldest known civilisation in India.

Research is ongoing at this fascinating site, now known as the Gulf of Khambat Cultural Complex (GKCC), which if the dates are proved correct, may one day radically alter our understanding of the world’s first civilisations. However, it must be added that a number of marine geologists believe that the NIOT scientists have made serious errors in their interpretations of the sonar images obtained from the area. The opinion of these researchers is that the supposedly ancient ‘ruins’, shown as geometric patterns on the images, are natural rock formations and there is no evidence that the artefacts discovered in the area of the site, including the radio-carbon dated block of wood, are associated with it. The debate is still continuing among geologists, archaeologists and historians on this controversial discovery.

Whether any of these underwater finds in the Pacific and Indian Oceans prove to be the remains of forgotten civilisations or not, one thing is certain – man will always be searching for a lost homeland or a more spiritually satisfying ancient past. In this sense Lemuria or Mu will always be more than just a physical place.

Sources and Further Reading

The Lost Continent of Mu by J. Churchward, C.W. Daniel Co. Ltd, 1994 (1931).

The Lost Land of Lemuria: Fabulous Geographies, Catastrophic Histories by Sumathi Ramaswamy, University of California Press, 2005.

The Secret Doctrine II – Anthropogenesis by H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, 1970 (1888).

Other Temples, Other Gods: The Occult in Australia by N. Drury & G. Tillett, Sydney, Hodder & Stoughton, 1982.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/353277.stm –‘Lost Continent Discovered’. The Kerguelen discovery.

www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1905/19050670.htm –‘Questionable Claims’. The finds in the Gulf of Khambat.

www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html – Morien Institue page about Yonaguni.

www.pohnpeiheaven.com/nanmadol.htm – ‘Pohnpei – Between Time and Tide’.

www.uoregon.edu/~wsayres/NanMadol.html – Dr. William S. Ayres’s site about his work in Nan Madol.

BRIAN HAUGHTON is an author and researcher who lives and writes in Patra, Greece. His publications include an article 'The Watseka Wonder' in issue 1 of the UK's Paranormal Magazine, articles on the BBC’s Legacies website, and in Bizarre Bazaar, All Destiny and World Mysteries. His latest book Hidden History: Lost Civilizations, Secret Knowledge, and Ancient Mysteries is published by New Page books. Brian has established a website devoted to the lives of mysterious, strange and paranormal people at www.mysteriouspeople.com. He can be contacted via email at brian@mysteriouspeople.com.

edit

21-08-2007, 11:48 PM

The Lost Lands of Mu and Lemu.. <http://www.proverbs2525.org/photo_albums/japan/scenery/sakura_t.jpg> (http://www.proverbs2525.org/photo_albums/japan/scenery/sakura.jpg)

bigus_dickus

21-08-2007, 11:53 PM

wow, i wonder what people smoke to come up with all this nonsense... :rolleyes:

fullfathomfive

21-08-2007, 11:56 PM

kippers

synergy777

21-08-2007, 11:59 PM

same shit as you, lol bigus.

bigus_dickus

22-08-2007, 12:02 AM

same shit as you, lol bigus.

i don't have any weed right now, which usually makes me all nice and huggy, so bare with my other side, hehe.

synergy777

22-08-2007, 12:03 AM

one pot head to another, its all good bro.

synergy777

22-08-2007, 12:21 AM

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/kalki_the_next_avatar_of_God.htm

Kalki: The Next Avatar of God and the End of Kali-yuga
by Stephen Knapp

(An excerpt from The Vedic Prophecies)

The age of Kali-yuga is said to start from the year 3102 BC, after the disappearance of Lord Krishna. Lord Caitanya appeared 500 years ago, at which time the Golden Age within Kali-yuga is supposed to start and last another 10,000 years. As the Golden Age within of Kali-yuga comes to a close, the lower modes of material nature will become so strong that people will lose interest in spiritual topics. It is said that everyone will become godless. Whatever devotees, bhaktas, and sages are left on the planet will be so unique in character and peculiar compared with the rest of society that they will be ridiculed and hunted down in the cities for sport like animals. Thus, they will flee the cities to live underground in caves or high up in the mountains, or simply disengage from the earthly plane of existence. In this way, they will disappear from the face of the earth. That is the time when the dark influence of the age of Kali-yuga will become so dominant that its full influence will manifest without hindrance.

Finally, after 432,000 years from the beginning of the age of Kali, Lord Kalki will appear as the twenty-second incarnation of God. This is very similar to what some people call the second coming of Christ.

THE APPEARANCE OF LORD KALKI

There are many incarnations of the Supreme Being as stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.3.26): "O brahmanas, the incarnations of the Lord are innumerable, like rivulets flowing from inexhaustible sources of water." However, out of all the various incarnations of the Supreme, the Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.3.28) specifically states "krishnas tu bhagavan svayam," which means that Lord Sri Krishna is the original Supreme Personality of God. All others are His plenary portions, or parts of His plenary portions, who descend into this material world to carry out certain responsibilities and to do specific things. This is especially the case when the planets are overly disturbed by miscreants and atheists. In Kali-yuga many years go by in which constant disturbances and social upheavals are allowed to happen, but the Vedic literature predicts that at the end Lord Kalki will make His appearance to change everything, as described in the following verses:

"Thereafter, at the conjunction of two yugas [Kali-yuga and Satya-yuga], the Lord of the creation will take His birth as the Kalki incarnation and become the son of Vishnuyasha. At this time the rulers of the earth will have degenerated into plunderers." (Bhag.1.3.25)

"Lord Kalki will appear in the home of the most eminent brahmana of Shambhala village, the great soul Vishnuyasha." (Bhag.12.2.18)

"At the end of Kali-yuga, when there exist no topics on the subject of God, even at the residences of so-called saints and respectable gentlemen of the three higher castes, and when the power of government is transferred to the hands of ministers elected from the lowborn shudra class or those less than them, and when nothing is known of the techniques of sacrifice, even by word, at that time the Lord will appear as the supreme chastiser." (Bhag.2.7.38)

The Vishnu Purana (Book Four, Chapter 24) also explains that, "When the practices taught in the Vedas and institutes of law have nearly ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists of His own spiritual nature, and who is the beginning and end, and who comprehends all things, shall descend upon earth. He will be born in the family of Vishnuyasha, an eminent brahmana of Shambhala village, as Kalki, endowed with eight superhuman faculties."

The Agni Purana (16.7-9) also explains that when the non-Aryans who pose as kings begin devouring men who appear righteous and feed on human beings, Kalki, as the son of Vishnuyasha, and Yajnavalkya as His priest and teacher, will destroy these non-Aryans with His weapons. He will establish moral law in the form of the fourfold varnas, or the suitable organization of society in four classes. After that people will return to the path of righteousness.

The Padma Purana (6.71.279-282) relates that Lord Kalki will end the age of Kali and will kill all the wicked mlecchas and, thus, destroy the bad condition of the world. He will gather all of the distinguished brahmanas and will propound the highest truth. He will know all the ways of life that have perished and will remove the prolonged hunger of the genuine brahmanas and the pious. He will be the only ruler of the world that cannot be controlled, and will be the banner of victory and adorable to the world.

Here in these verses we find that Lord Kalki will come as a chastiser or warrior. By this time the planet will be filled with people who will be unable to understand logical conversations. They will be too slow-minded and dull-witted, not capable of being taught much, especially in the way of high philosophy regarding the purpose of life. They will not know what they need to do or how to live. And they certainly will be unable to change their ways. Therefore, Lord Kalki does not come to teach, but simply to chastise, punish, and cleanse the planet.

Furthermore, we also find the name of the place where Lord Kalki will appear and the name of the family in which He will be born. The family will be qualified brahmanas. This means that a disciplic and family line of spiritually qualified brahmanas will remain on the planet throughout the age of Kali, no matter how bad things get. Though they may be hidden, living in a small village somewhere, it will be this line of bhaktas, spiritual devotees, from which Lord Kalki will appear in the distant future. No one knows where this village of Shambala is located. Some feel that it is yet to manifest, or that it will be a hidden underground community from which Lord Kalki will appear.

In this connection we find in the Padma Purana (6.242.8-12) the prediction that Lord Kalki will be born in the town of Shambala near the end of Kali-yuga from a brahmana who is actually an incarnation of Svayambhuva Manu. It is described that Svayambhuva performed austerities at Naimisa on the bank of the Gomati River for acquiring the privilege of having Lord Vishnu as his son in three lifetimes. Lord Vishnu, being pleased with Svayambhuva, granted the blessing that He would appear as Svayambhuva's son as Lord Rama, Krishna, and Kalki. Thus, Svayambhuva would appear as Dasaratha, Vasudeva, and then Vishnuyasha. Also, in the Padma Purana (1.40.46) we find Lord Vishnu admits that He will be born in Kali-yuga. Thus, He will appear as Lord Kalki.

THE ACTIVITIES OF LORD KALKI

The Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.2.19-20) describes Lord Kalki's activities as follows: "Lord Kalki, the Lord of the universe, will mount His swift white horse Devadatta and, sword in hand, travel over the earth exhibiting His eight mystic opulences and eight special qualities of Godhead. Displaying His unequaled effulgence and riding with great speed, He will kill by the millions those thieves who have dared dress as kings."

We should make note here that, as the Vedic literature explains, when the Supreme kills anyone, that person is immediately spiritually purified by His touch and because the person is focused on the Supreme Being while leaving his body. Thus, that person attains the same destination as those yogis who spend years steadying the mind in order to meditate and leave their bodies while focused on the Supreme. So being killed by the Supreme is a great advantage for those of a demoniac mentality who would otherwise enter lower realms of existence or even the hellish planets in their next lives.

The Vishnu Purana (Book Four, Chapter 24) continues to explain Lord Kalki's activities: "By His irresistible might he will destroy all the mlecchas and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will reestablish righteousness upon earth, and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as clear as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who will follow the laws of the Krita age [Satya-yuga], the age of purity. As it is said, 'When the sun and moon, and the lunar asterism Tishya, and the planet Jupiter, are in one mansion, the Krita age shall return.'" The Agni Purana (16.10) also relates that Hari, after giving up the form of Kalki, will go to heaven. Then the Krita or Satya-yuga will return as before.

Additional information that can help us understand the activities of the next coming of God is found in the Linga Purana (40.50-92), the Brahmanda Purana (1.2.31.76-106 & 2.3.73.104-126), and the Vayu Purana (58.75-110). In these texts we find descriptions of Lord Kalki as He will appear in the future and also as how He appeared in previous incarnations as Pramiti in this time period known as the Svayambhuva Manvantara. These texts tell us that as Kali-yuga comes to a close, and after the death of Bhrigu (or in order to slay the Bhrigus), Kalki (Pramiti) took birth in the Lunar dynasty of Manu. He will wander over the planet without being seen by any living being. Then he will start His campaign in His thirty-second year and roam the earth for twenty years. He will take with Him a big army of horses, chariots, and elephants, surrounded by hundreds and thousands of spiritually purified brahmanas armed with weapons. [Being brahmanas, these weapons may be brahminical weapons that are activated by mantras, such as the powerful brahmastra rather than base weapons of combat such as knives, swords, and spears, or even guns and ordinary explosives.] Though they may try to do battle with Him, He will kill all of the heretics [and false prophets] and wicked, mleccha kings.

In a previous incarnation He killed the Udicyas (Northerners), Madhya Deshyas (residents of the middle lands), Purvatiyas (mountain dwellers), Pracyas (Easterners), Praticyas (Westerners), Dakshinatyas (of Southern India), the Simhalas (Sri Lankans), Pahlavas (the fair-skinned nomadic tribes of the Caucasus mountains), Yadavas, Tusharas (people of the area of Mandhata, India, or present day Tukharistan), Cinas (Chinese), Shulikas, Khashas, and different tribes of the Kiratas (aboriginal tribes living in north-eastern India and Nepal) and Vrishalas.

No one could stop Him as He wielded His discus and killed all the barbarians. When He was finished He rested in the middle land between the Ganges and Yamuna with His ministers and followers. He allowed only a few people to remain, scattered over the planet. These would be as seeds for the next generations that would follow in the next Satya-yuga. Thereafter, when Lord Kalki has made way for the next age of Satya-yuga, and delivered the earth and whatever is left of civilization from the effects of Kali-yuga, He will go back to His eternal abode along with His army.

Continuing with the description of Lord Kalki as described in the Linga, Brahmanda, and Vayu Puranas, they explain that after Lord Kalki returns to His eternal abode, when those subjects surviving at the end of Kali-yuga are enlightened, the yuga changes overnight. Then the minds of all people will become enlightened, and with inevitable force Krita or Satya-yuga sets in. People will then realize the soul, and acquire piety, devotion, tranquility, and clear consciousness. Then those Siddhas [the enlightened and perfected living beings who had remained invisible on a higher dimension through the end of the age of Kali] return to the earthly dimension and again are clearly visible. They establish themselves with the return of the Saptarishis, the seven sages, who instruct everyone about spiritual life, Vedic knowledge, and the progressive organization of society for a peaceful and fulfilling existence. Then again people flourish and perform the sacred rites, and the sages will remain in authority to continue the advancement of the new Satya-yuga.

THE RETURN OF THE GOLDEN AGE--SATYA-YUGA

Herein we can understand that Lord Kalki will simply chastise by killing all of the evil kings and rogues and thereby bring in a new era of enlightened beings, a race whose minds will be as clear as crystal. They will produce offspring that will follow the tendencies of real human beings as found in the age of Satya-yuga.

Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.2.21-24) further describes that after all of the devious and fake kings have been killed, the remaining residents of the towns and cities will smell the breezes that carry the sacred aroma of the Lord's sandalwood paste and decorations, and their minds will then become spiritually purified. When the Supreme Being appears in their hearts in His form of pure goodness, the remaining citizens will abundantly repopulate the earth. With this appearance of Lord Kalki, Satya-yuga will begin again and the remaining humans will produce children in goodness. Thus, when the moon, the sun, and Jupiter are in the constellation Kartaka, Cancer, and together enter the lunar mansion of Pusya, that is when the age of Satya-yuga will begin. Therefore, as related in the Bhagavatam (12.2.34), after one thousand celestial years of Kali-yuga, Satya-yuga will again manifest. At that time the minds of men will be self-effulgent.

The Vishnu Purana (Book Four, Chapter One) also relates that the Vedas and the principles of sanatana-dharma, or the eternal nature of the soul, fade and disappear from the planet at the end of every four ages. The Bhagavatam (8.14.4-5) also confirms that there are saintly persons who help reestablish these principles in Satya-yuga along with the basis of varnashrama, which is the proper organization of society for humanity. The Vishnu Purana continues to explain that it is in the jurisdiction of the seven universal sages or rishis (the Saptarishis) to make sure the Vedic knowledge is given currency again, even if these rishis must descend from the higher planets to do so. So in every Satya-yuga the Manu [the demigod son of Brahma who is the lawgiver of humanity] of that age is the author of the body of law, while the sons of Manu and their descendants are sovereigns of the earth. This means that although the genuine spiritual knowledge or Vedic information may disappear from this planet, it is still dwelling elsewhere in the universe, and it is the duty of higher authorities to reestablish it on Earth.

To help in this regard, it is predicted in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.2.37-38) and the Vishnu Purana (Book Four, Chapter 24) that there are two persons who are waiting for the end of Kali-yuga: Devapi of the race of Puru and brother of King Shantanu, and Maru, a descendant of King Ikshvaku. They will be great kings and will help in the process of reestablishing the proper principles in society. These two are alive even now by their great mystic strength obtained through the power of devotion. They have lived through all four of the yugas and reside in the village of Kalapa. They are waiting for the end of Kali-yuga. Then, at the beginning of Satya-yuga, under the instructions of the Supreme, they will return to society and be members of the family of the Manu and reestablish the eternal religion of humanity, sanatana-dharma, and the institution of varnashrama, which is the proper organization of society for its continued harmony in life, and its material and spiritual progress. They will become great kings and form proper government. Thus, by the arrangement of the Supreme Being, there are those who will always be the guardians of that spiritual knowledge that contains the genuine principles for attaining the real goal of human existence.

After all of this is accomplished, as related in the Bhagavatam (12.2.39), the cycle of the four ages of Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali-yugas [a Caturyuga] will continue to repeat itself along with the same general pattern of events.

IS LORD KALKI PREDICTED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS?

Here are some additional interesting points to consider. There are verses from the book of Revelations in the Bible that are very similar to the above descriptions in the Puranas about Lord Kalki. These verses are so similar that they cannot be ignored and may provide additional insight for Christians and similarities they may share with Vedic culture. In Revelations (19.11-16, & 19-21) it states:

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, but no man knew but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat on the horse."

This sounds so much like the incarnation of Lord Kalki that it could hardly be anyone else. Surely, by the time Lord Kalki appears, no one will have the slightest expectation of Him or His appearance. No one will know His name. And His army of brahmanas will be as pure as if they had descended from heaven. At the time of Lord Kalki's appearance, He will kill the remaining miscreants and deliver the few saintly people from the present conditions of the earth, changing it back to the Golden Age of Satya-yuga. In this regard, Revelations (14.1-3) also describes:

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb [a typical symbol for the Divine or an incarnation of the Divine] stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps; And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

One significant description in the above verses is that those who are redeemed from the earth will have God's name written on their foreheads. This is a widespread custom of the brahmanas in India to write the name of God, such as Vishnu or Krishna, on their foreheads. This is tilok, which is usually put on with clay made from the banks of a holy river. We often see this in the middle of the forehead in the shape of a "V" which represents the name of God and that the body is a temple of God, or the three-lined markings of the Shaivites. The Vaishnava mark is made while reciting "Om keshavaya namaha," which means "Salutations to Lord Keshava," another name of Krishna.

So herein could be an indication that when the last of society is delivered from the earth during the end times, they will be those who wear the name of God on their foreheads, at least according to these verses. Also, as in accord with other Vedic prophecies, we can understand that there will be very few people left in the world who will have any piety at all. So it would fit in with the Vedic prophecies that by the time Lord Kalki appears, there may, indeed, be only 144,000 who will be left in the world worthy of being delivered from the godless and chaotic conditions of the earth. Or these may be the seeds of the new civilization that will start the beginning of the next age of Satya-yuga.

[Available at: http://www.stephen-knapp.com]

synergy777

23-08-2007, 01:43 PM

bump for the gaffer jw

synergy777

29-08-2007, 02:35 PM

http://chitalnja.narod.ru/witch/green/01.htm

The Dravidic people still exist as a distinct ethnic group in India today, and their practices reflect much of what we tend to label as European Paganism-the concepts and even the names are recogniz-able. The Dual Deity of the Indus region, the Dravidian (rather than Hindu) Shiva (or Isha) and Shakti (or Uma, Danu) can be seen from the perspective of dating, migrations, and trade routes as the forerunner to the European duality of the Lord and the Lady-the Horned God of love/fertility/wildlife and the Goddess of life/death/ rebirth-which formed what later became known as the Green level (base) of the Odinist (Asatru) tradition. The Green level reflects the earlier religion before the establishment of a warrior class and a ruling class, and before the need for the creation of political deities to authorize the power of rulers through a clergy class. It was the latter that resulted in people's separation from their deities, which led to the subsequent pattern of the remoteness of God as reflected in modern mainstream religions.

It is significant here to understand that when I write about the Green style of Witchcraft, I will be using deities that have become part of the Aryan-based Vedic Hindu tradition but which pre-date even that ancient religion by tens of thousands of years. It is not a matter of mix-ing pantheons to use both Shiva and Cernunnos, for example. Cernunnos' origins are from the Dravidic Shiva who is depicted in Indus Valley archeological finds as horned, surrounded by animals both wild and domestic, and symbolizing fertility and love, teaching and blessing in a yogic position. Cernunnos, seen on the more recent Celtic Gundesrup cauldron, is also seated in a yogic posture, horned, and sur-rounded by animals with one hand raised in blessing. This is the deity brought to Europe by the Celts, who themselves are of Dravidian her-itage, being a people driven into Europe and the British Isles (by way of the Iberian Peninsula) from their home in Lydia because of the expan-sions of the Aryan tribes from 2000 to 1000 B.C.E. I have placed a further discussion of religious development in Appendix A.

why the adoption of irish flag, naional color green as celtic/aryan history.

synergy777

29-08-2007, 02:47 PM

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/books/arcane_schools_by_John_Yarker/files/arcane_chapter_3.htm

our Gypsies seem to spring from the Jat race

synergy777

29-08-2007, 03:10 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Common_Ancestry_of_Jatt_Names

the jatt/celtic surname was deleted, the cia/msm wiki police, lol. it don't matter. murthi/murphy etc, baines/bains, gill, dhillion/dillon/dylan, mann, kahn/khan, paisley. arya/eire.

woghd

29-08-2007, 07:42 PM

-----------
synergy777
Senior Member

synergy777's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,701
------------

Synergy777 was a young male. Jesus Christ was a young male.
"Synergy777" has ten letters. Christ promoted the ten Commandments.
Synergy777's join date was in February. Jesus Christ was likely born in February.
Synergy777 has 1701 posts. In Startrek's "Bread and Circuses" episode, the theme was about the son of God. The starship used is numbered 1701.
Synergy wears a blue jacket with white stripes. Christ is often depicted wearing a white robe with blue stripes.
Synergy777 contains "777" the numbers of that which is holy.
Synergy has the word "Change" above his head. Christ promoted change. Christ also threw out the money changers.
Synergy777 wears a black hat. Christ wore a crown of black thorns on his head.

--------

This is all based only on the scant info around Synergy's avatar, imagine what parallels I could draw if I knew details of his life and background. One could have a field day if Synergy had ever been to the middle east or been a teacher. One could go on and on with pages of parallel info, all of it true, and the only piece of VALID info is the very first one, that they both happened to be male.

I'm not saying the info is wrong, only that it doesn't qualify as evidence unless it is EXACT.

Archangel

mahabaratara

29-08-2007, 09:41 PM

Synergy its obvious to those that look that the Vedic Civilisation had influence planet wide...As much as America has now...I was reading the othet night of a Maha Rani that married into the Eygptian bloodline...#

See what matters is how we can know for *ourselves* and the only way is to go internal for the eternal...

I think in the end thats all there is to it...But its also the hardest thing to do...With reason because the rewards are high...

But props though keep it up...

Regards Maha

synergy777

30-08-2007, 11:28 AM

woghd, synergy's not the messiah, just a very naughty boy, lol. i could take that as blasphemy against yashuah, us sikhs don't like this lack of respect for yashuah.

maha, my bro just returned from egypt, the egyptians all said to him, we are from india, the hyskos. they invaded/married with existing african/nubian population.

synergy777

30-08-2007, 12:30 PM

Synergy wears a blue jacket with white stripes. Christ is often depicted wearing a white robe with blue stripes

bro its green. anyway i checked your site out, goodstuff. carry on with the stuff you are doing, bro.

1love/peace

synergy777

30-08-2007, 04:15 PM

http://www.ancientcoins.ca/india.html

ancient vedic coins.

woghd

30-08-2007, 10:47 PM

bro its green. anyway i checked your site out, goodstuff. carry on with the stuff you are doing, bro.

1love/peace

Thanx man, I try. I want to say I've been reading your other posts, and I agree with a good 95% of your comments, so I hope you don't think I was picking on you there, I needed to use someones avatar to make my point, and you got lucky, lol.

Be well.

Archangel

synergy777

31-08-2007, 12:35 AM

You Keep It Bro, Keep Hacking Those Elite Goons. Also Can You Check If The Nwo Etc, Monitor Peoples Lines/connections. I Would Like Some Assitance.

synergy777

31-08-2007, 12:00 PM

http://chitalnja.narod.ru/witch/green/01.htm

The Dravidic people still exist as a distinct ethnic group in India today, and their practices reflect much of what we tend to label as European Paganism-the concepts and even the names are recogniz-able. The Dual Deity of the Indus region, the Dravidian (rather than Hindu) Shiva (or Isha) and Shakti (or Uma, Danu) can be seen from the perspective of dating, migrations, and trade routes as the forerunner to the European duality of the Lord and the Lady-the Horned God of love/fertility/wildlife and the Goddess of life/death/ rebirth-which formed what later became known as the Green level (base) of the Odinist (Asatru) tradition. The Green level reflects the earlier religion before the establishment of a warrior class and a ruling class, and before the need for the creation of political deities to authorize the power of rulers through a clergy class. It was the latter that resulted in people's separation from their deities, which led to the subsequent pattern of the remoteness of God as reflected in modern mainstream religions.

It is significant here to understand that when I write about the Green style of Witchcraft, I will be using deities that have become part of the Aryan-based Vedic Hindu tradition but which pre-date even that ancient religion by tens of thousands of years. It is not a matter of mix-ing pantheons to use both Shiva and Cernunnos, for example. Cernunnos' origins are from the Dravidic Shiva who is depicted in Indus Valley archeological finds as horned, surrounded by animals both wild and domestic, and symbolizing fertility and love, teaching and blessing in a yogic position. Cernunnos, seen on the more recent Celtic Gundesrup cauldron, is also seated in a yogic posture, horned, and sur-rounded by animals with one hand raised in blessing. This is the deity brought to Europe by the Celts, who themselves are of Dravidian her-itage, being a people driven into Europe and the British Isles (by way of the Iberian Peninsula) from their home in Lydia because of the expan-sions of the Aryan tribes from 2000 to 1000 B.C.E. I have placed a further discussion of religious development in Appendix A.

the adoption of irish flag, national color green as celtic/aryan history.the irish flag is the same colors as the indian flag.

lydia have you checked this on the hill of tara thread. also nice gandalf/hobbit house, and the place of merlin, is it true?

synergy777

31-08-2007, 11:06 PM

Nazareth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Etymology
see also: Gennesaret (Ya-Nezareth)
The etymology of Nazareth from as early as Eusebius up until the 20th century has been said to derive from netser, a "shoot" or "sprout", while the apocryphal Gospel of Phillip derives the name from Nazara meaning "truth".[2] There is speculation and biblical indication that Nazarene meaning "of the village of Nazareth", was confused with "Nazirite," meaning a "separated" Jew who had taken a vow of holiness

Nazirite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A nazirite or nazarite, (in Hebrew: נזיר, nazir), refers to a Jew who took an ascetic vow described in Numbers 6:1-21. The term "nazirite" comes from the Hebrew word nazir meaning "consecrated" or "separated".[1] This vow required the man or woman to:

Abstain from wine, wine vinegar, grapes, raisins, and according to some - alcohol and vinegar from alcohol
Refrain from cutting the hair on one's head
Avoid corpses and graves, even those of family members, and any structure which contains such
After following these requirements for a designated period of time (which would be specified in the individual's vow, and not to be less than 30 days), the person would immerse in a Mikvah and make three offerings, a lamb as a "burnt offering" (olah), a ewe as a "sin offering" (hatat), and a ram as a "peace offering" (shelamim), in addition to a basket of unleavened bread, grain offerings and drink offerings, which accompanied the peace offering.

Nazarene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Essenes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Essenes (sg. Essene, IPA: [ɛˈsin], possibly from the Aramaic Yssyn, healer[1]) were a Judaic religious group that flourished from the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD. Many scholars today argue that there were a number of separate but related groups that had in common mystic, eschatological, messianic, and ascetic beliefs that were referred to as the "Essenes".

Contemporary ancient sources
The main source of information about the life and belief of Essenes is the detailed account contained in a work of the 1st century Jewish historiographer Flavius Josephus entitled The Jewish War written about 73-75 AD (War 2.119-161) and his shorter description in his Antiquities of the Jews finished some 20 years later (Ant. 18.11 & 18-22). Claiming first hand knowledge (Life §§10-11), he refers to them by the name Essenoi and lists them as the followers of one of the three sects in "Jewish Philosophy'" (War 2.119) alongside the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The only other known contemporary accounts about the Essenes are two similarly detailed ones by the Jewish philosopher Philo (fl. c. 20 AD - c. 54 AD; Quod Omnis Probus Liber Sit XII.75-87, and the excerpt from his Hypothetica 11.1-18 preserved by Eusebius, Praep. Evang. Bk VIII), who, however, admits to not being quite certain of the Greek form of their name that he recalls as Essaioi (Quod Omn. Prob. XII.75), the brief reference to them by the Roman equestrian Pliny the Elder (fl. 23 AD - 79 AD; Natural History, Bk 5.73). Pliny, also a geographer and explorer, located them in the desert near the northwestern shore of the Dead Sea, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1947.

The Dead Sea Scrolls, found in caves at Qumran, are widely believed to be the work of Essenes or to reflect Essene beliefs. See below.

Name
Josephus uses the name Essenes in his two main accounts (War 2.119, 158, 160; Ant. 13.171-2) as well as in some other contexts ("an account of the Essenes", Ant. 13.298; "the gate of the Essenes", War 5.145; "Judas of the Essene race", Ant. 13.311, but some manuscripts read here Essaion; "holding the Essenes in honour", Ant. 15.372; "a certain Essene named Manaemus", Ant. 15.373; "to hold all Essenes in honour", Ant. 15.378; "the Essenes", Ant. 18.11 & 18; Life 10). In several places, however, Josephus has Essaios, which is usually assumed to mean Essene ("Judas of the Essaios race", War I.78; "Simon of the Essaios race", War 2.113; "John the Essaios", War 2.567; 3.11; "those who are called by us Essaioi", Ant. 15.371; "Simon a man of the Essaios race", Ant. 17.346). Philo's usage is Essaioi, although he admits this Greek form of the original name that according to his etymology signifies "holiness" to be inexact (NH XII.75). Pliny's Latin text has Esseni. Josephus identified the Essenes as one of the three major Jewish sects of that period.

According to a controversial view put forward by Dead Sea Scrolls Scholar Géza Vermes, both Josephus and Philo pronounced the Essenes' name as "Esaoin", which means in Arabic followers of "Esa", which Vermes says is the name of Jesus according to the most ancient mosaic portrait found in Turkey dated 70 A.D. which says underneath "Esa our Lord". Mainstream scholars usually stress a number of fundamental differences between Dead Sea Scroll theology and early Christian theology to argue that the Essenes cannot be considered identical to any kind of Christianity.

In Eerdman's Beyond the Essene Hypothesis, Gabriele Boccaccini (p.47) implies that a convincing etymology for the name Essene has not been found, but that the term applies to a larger group within Palestine that also included the Qumran community.

It is possible that the Talmudic statement (Kiddushin Ch. 4) "the best of the physicians will go to hell" were referring to the Essenes. The Talmudic term for healer is Assia. (Reuvein Margolies Toldot Ha'Adam)

Location
According to Josephus the Essenes had settled "not in one city" but "in large numbers in every town" (War 2.124). Philo speaks of "more than four thousand" Essaioi living in "Palestinian Syria" (Quod Omn. Prob. XII.75), more precisely, "in many cities of Judaea and in many villages and grouped in great societies of many members" (Hyp. 11.1).

Pliny locates them "on the west side of the Dead Sea, away from the coast ... [above] the town of Engeda"

Some modern scholars and archeologists have argued that Essenes inhabited the settlement at Qumran, a plateau in the Judean Desert along the Dead Sea, citing Pliny the Elder in support, and giving credence that the Dead Sea Scrolls are the product of the Essenes. This view, though not yet conclusively proven, has come to dominate the scholarly discussion and public perception of the Essenes.

Josephus' reference to a "gate of the Essenes" in the Temple Mount perhaps suggests an Essene community living in this quarter of the city or regularly gathering at this part of the Temple precincts.

Asceticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sadhus, men believed to be holy, are known for the extreme forms of self-denial they occasionally practice. These include extreme acts of devotion to a deity or principle, such as vowing never to use one leg or the other, or to hold an arm in the air for a period of months or years. The particular types of asceticism involved vary from sect to sect, and from holy man to holy man. Rules and Regulations of Brahmanical Asceticism - Yatidharmasamuccaya of Yadava Prakasa/ Translated by Patrick Olivelle (Sri Satguru Publications/ Delhi) is a must read book in this context.

Sadhu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Etymology

The Sanskrit terms sādhu ("good man") and sādhvī ("good woman") refer to renouncers who have chosen to live a life apart from or on the edges of society in order to focus on their own spiritual practice.[2]

The words come from the Sanskrit root sādh, which means "reach one's goal", "make straight", or "gain power over".[3] The same root is used in the word sādhana, which means "spiritual practice".

now yashuah was nazarite/asetic, living like the saddhus/buddhists of india, doing yoga, etc, before he started his ministry, imho.

mahabaratara

31-08-2007, 11:18 PM

http://esotericteaching.org/

Check out this site 777...

There Krsna/Bhagvad Gita Videos's have taught me more in one night than two years of reading...

Stephen Knapp comes from the same lineage...

Prapuada...

I know I have spelt it wrong...

Also

http://illusionsforum.jconserv.net/viewtopic.php?t=5046

Its coming back around....;)

synergy777

31-08-2007, 11:36 PM

cheers bro, the power of sanskrit/sound/aum. its like the ek onkaar sign, power beyond measure.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Introduction_to_Sikhism

Sikhism, the youngest of the world religions, is barely five hundred years old. Its founder, Guru Nanak, was born in 1469. Guru Nanak spread a simple message of "Ek Onkar": we are all one, created by the One Creator of all Creation. This was at a time when India was being torn apart by castes, sectarianism, religious factions, and fanaticism. He aligned with no religion, and respected all religions. He expressed the reality that there is one God and many paths, and the Name of God is Truth, "SatNam".

Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the Tenth Guru, exemplified the Sikh ideal of the 'Sant-Sipahi', which directly translates as Soldier-Saint. He was also an inspired and prolific writer, courageous warrior, and a source of Divine Wisdom to his Sikhs. "When all other means have failed," he said, "only then is it righteous to take up the sword." He was the defender of the poor, the meek, and the oppressed masses of India.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2104/200pxsevasinghekongkaarer0.jpg

synergy777

03-09-2007, 12:46 PM

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=1759

The Lost Lands of Mu and Lemuria
2007 09 02

By Brian Haughton | newdawnmagazine.com

Was Australia Once Part of a Sunken Continent?

Theosophical Maps of Lemuria
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/tll/tll01.htm

Lemuria and Mu are interchangeable names given to a lost land believed to have been located somewhere in either the southern Pacific or Indian Oceans. This ancient continent was apparently the home of an advanced and highly spiritual culture, perhaps the mother race of all mankind, but it sank beneath the waves many thousands of years ago as the result of a geological cataclysm of some kind.

The thousands of rocky islands scattered throughout the Pacific, including Easter Island, Tahiti, Hawaii and Samoa, have been claimed by some to be the only surviving remains of this once great continent. The theory of a lost continent in this area has been put forward by many different people, most notably in the mid 19th century by scientists in order to explain the unusual distribution of various animals and plants around the Indian and Pacific Oceans.

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky

In the late 19th century occultist Madame Blavatsky reincarnated the idea of Lemuria as a lost continent / spiritual homeland and influenced a host of subsequent occultists and mystics including well known American psychic healer and Prophet Edgar Cayce. The popularisation of Lemuria / Mu as a purely physical place began in the 20th century with ex-British army officer Colonel James Churchward, and the idea still has many adherents today.

But is there any physical evidence to back up these claims of an ancient continent beneath the Pacific or Indian Ocean? Or should these ‘lost homeland’ stories be interpreted in another way entirely, perhaps as the symbol of a mythical vanished ‘Golden Age’ of man?

The Land of Mu

The idea of a lost continent known as ‘Mu’ in the Pacific Ocean does not actually have a particularly long history, neither is it mentioned specifically in any ancient mythologies as some writers have suggested. The title ‘Mu’ originated with eccentric amateur archaeologist Augustus le Plongeon (1826-1908), who was the first to make photographical records of the ruins of the archaeological site of Chichen Itza in Yucatán, Mexico. Plongeon’s credibility was badly damaged by his attempted translation of a Mayan book known as the ‘Troana Codex’ (also known as the ‘Madrid Codex’).

Page from the Madrid Codex

In his books Sacred Mysteries Among the Mayans and Quiches (1886) and Queen Moo and the Egyptian Sphinx (1896) Plongeon interpreted part of the text of the Troana Codex as revealing that the Maya of Yucatán were the ancestors of the Egyptians and many other civilisations. He also believed that an ancient continent, which he called Mu, had been destroyed by a volcanic eruption, the survivors of this cataclysm founding the Mayan civilisation. Plongeon equates Mu with Atlantis and states that a ‘Queen Moo’ originally from Atlantis, travelled to Egypt where she became known as Isis, and founded the Egyptian civilisation. However, Plongeon’s interpretation of the Mayan book is considered by experts in Mayan archaeology and history as completely erroneous, indeed much of what he interpreted as hieroglyphics turned out to be ornamental design.

Lemuria

Ernst Heinrich Haeckel

‘Lemuria’, the alternative name for the lost continent, also originated in the nineteenth century. Ernst Heinrich Haeckel (1834-1919), a German naturalist and supporter of Darwin, proposed that a land bridge spanning the Indian Ocean separating Madagascar from India could explain the widespread distribution of lemurs, small, primitive tree-dwelling mammals found in Africa, Madagascar, India and the East Indian archipelago. More bizarrely, Haeckel also suggested that lemurs were the ancestors of the human race and that this land bridge was the “probable cradle of the human race.”

Other well-known scientists, such as the evolutionist T.H. Huxley and the naturalist Alfred Russell Wallace, had no doubt about the existence of a huge continent in the Pacific millions of years previously, which had been destroyed in a disastrous earthquake that submerged it beneath the waves, much as Atlantis was thought to have been drowned.

Philip Lutley Sclater

Before the discovery of continental drift it was not unusual in the mid to late 19th century for scientists to propose submerged land masses and land bridges to explain the distribution of the world’s flora and fauna. In 1864, the English zoologist Philip Lutley Sclater (1829-1913) gave the hypothetical continent the name ‘Lemuria’ in an article ‘The Mammals of Madagascar’ in The Quarterly Journal of Science, and since then it has stuck.

The Geologists’ View

Zoologists and geologists now explain the distribution of lemurs and other plants and animals in the area of the Pacific and Indian Oceans to be the result of plate tectonics and continental drift. The theory of plate tectonics, and it is still a theory, affirms that moving plates of the Earth’s crust supported on less rigid mantle rocks causes continental drift, volcanic and seismic activity, and the formation of mountain chains. The concept of continental drift was first proposed by German scientist Alfred Wegener in 1912, but the theory did not gain general acceptance in the scientific community for another 50 years.

With this understanding of plate tectonics geologists now regard the theory of a sunken continent beneath the Pacific as an impossibility. They also point out that theories of lost lands in the Pacific mostly originate in the 19th century, when knowledge of the area was limited and well before the Pacific sea floor had been mapped.

Blavatsky’s Lemuria

The idea of Lemuria as something more than a physical place, or at least somewhere which had been inhabited by non-human entities before the appearance of man, derives from the writings of colourful Russian occultist Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (1831-1891). Blavatsky was the co-founder, together with lawyer Henry Steel Olcott, of the Theosophical Society, in New York in 1875. The Society was an esoteric order designed to study the mystical teachings of both Christianity and Eastern religions.

The Secret Doctrine: The Synthesis of Science, Religion, and Philosophy By Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
In her massive tome The Secret Doctrine (1888) Blavatsky describes a history originating millions of years ago with the ‘Lords of Flame’ and goes on to discusses five ‘Root Races’ which have existed on earth, each one dying out in an earth-shattering cataclysm. The third of these Root Races she called the ‘Lemurian’, which lived a million years ago, and who were bizarre telepathic giants who kept dinosaurs as pets.

The Lemurians eventually drowned when their continent was submerged beneath the Pacific Ocean. The progeny of the Lemurians was the fourth Root Race, the human Atlanteans, who were brought down by their use of black magic, their continent of Atlantis sinking beneath the waves 850,000 years ago. Present humanity represents the Fifth Root Race.

Blavatsky envisioned her Lemuria as covering a vast area. In her own words it stretched from...the foot of the Himalayas, which separated it from the inland sea rolling its waves over what is now Tibet, Mongolia, and the great desert of Schamo (Gobi); from Chittagong, westward to Hardwar, and eastward to Assam. From thence, it stretched South across what is known to us as Southern India, Ceylon, and Sumatra; then embracing on its way, as we go South, Madagascar on its right hand and Australia and Tasmania on its left, it ran down to within a few degrees of the Antarctic Circle; when, from Australia, an inland region on the Mother Continent in those ages, it extended far into the Pacific Ocean...

Blavatsky also describes survivors of the catastrophic destruction of Lemuria escaping to become the ancestors of some of the Aboriginal tribes of Australia. She maintained that she took all of her information regarding Lemuria from ‘The Book of Dzyan’, supposed to have been written in Atlantis and shown to her by the Indian adepts known as ‘Mahatmas’.

Madame Blavatsky never claimed to have discovered Lemuria; in fact she refers to Philip Schlater coining the name Lemuria, in her writings. It has to be said that The Secret Doctrine is an extremely difficult book, a complex mixture of Eastern and Western cosmologies, mystical ramblings and esoteric wisdom, much of it not meant to be taken literally.

Blavatsky’s is the first ‘occult’ interpretation of Lemuria, but on one level it should not be equated with the physical continent later proposed by Churchward. What Blavatsky and other occultists since have suggested concerning Lemuria could be partly interpreted as an ideal spiritual condition of the soul, a kind of spiritual-historical vision.

Nevertheless, there are some psychics and prophets who even today regard the existence of ancient Lemuria / Mu as a physical reality. Indeed, there are a few who when ‘hypnotically regressed’ have recalled former lives as citizens on the doomed continent.

Lemuria and Australia

The writings of Blavatsky and other Theosophists about Lemuria, and the idea of Australia as part of this ancient lost continent and the scene of a lost golden age, had a significant influence on mystics and occultists in the country at the end of the 19th century.

Rosa Campbell Praed

Queensland-born novelist Rosa Campbell Praed represented Australia as the last remnant of ancient Lemuria and believed the myth of the lost continent to be based on fact. In Praed’s case, she used the theosophical idea of Lemuria to present an idealised primeval history of Australia, a land very different to the Queensland frontier country wracked by racial violence she had witnessed first-hand as a child.

Other evidence for this fascination with ancient Lemuria comes in the series of Australian adventure of the 1890s known as “the Lemurian novels.” In The Last Lemurian, written in 1898 by historian of Australian exploration and adventure-romance novelist George Firth Scott, the narrator Dick Halwood discovers the remains of legendary Lemuria out in the Australian desert, in a plot involving reincarnation, pygmies, a bunyip-monster, and an occult Yellow Queen.

John David Hennessey’s An Australian Bush Track (1896) calls Lemuria ‘Zoo-Zoo land’, and locates it somewhere in northern Queensland. Its inhabitants, the Zoo-Zooans, are a “remnant of a great nation which came there from some part of the mainland of Asia,” but had lost all the arts of high civilisation they once possessed. The Lost Explorer (1890) by James Francis Hogan has Lemuria as ‘Malua’, located in the centre of Australia, and ruled by the cannibalistic Queen Mocata, the last survivor of a superior race that once lived in “the interior of the great southern continent.”

The idea that Australia was once part of this lost Eden has also influenced those of a more practical bent, and attempts have been made to locate traces of Lemurian civilisation on both the west and east coasts of Australia.

Aboriginal art, artefacts and mythology have also been used to identify the Aborigines as prehistoric remnants of the Lemurians (following Blavatsky again), who somehow escaped the devastation of 20,000 or so years ago. Indeed, in some Theosophical publications of the first quarter of the 20th century Aborigines were described as the last of the Lemurians. However, the Aborigines of Australia had already been established on the continent for at least 30,000 years at the time of the supposed destruction of Lemuria, in fact they have perhaps the longest continuous cultural history of any people on Earth, so the theory of them having a Lemurian origin does not hold water.

Colonel James Churchward

The lost civilisation of Lemuria / Mu was brought dramatically back to public attention in 1931 with the publication of Colonel James Churchward’s bizarre The Lost Continent of Mu, the first in a series of five books by Churchward about the lost continent.

In the book he claimed that the lost continent of Mu had once extended from an area north of Hawaii southwards as far as Fiji and Easter Island. According to Churchward, Mu was the original Garden of Eden and a technologically advanced civilisation which boasted 64,000,000 inhabitants. Around 12,000 years ago Mu was wiped out by an earthquake and submerged beneath the Pacific. Apparently Atlantis, a colony of Mu, was destroyed in the same way a thousand years later. All the world’s major ancient civilisations, from the Babylonians and the Persians, to the Maya and the Egyptians, were the remains of the colonies of Mu.

Colonel James Churchward

Churchward claimed he received this sensational information when, as a young officer in India during a famine in the 1880s, he became friendly with an Indian priest. This priest told Churchward that he and two cousins were the only survivors of a 70,000 year old esoteric order which originated on Mu itself. This order was known as the ‘Naacal Brotherhood’.

The priest showed Churchward a number of ancient tablets written by the Naacal Order in a forgotten ancient language, supposed to be the original language of mankind, which he taught the officer to read. Churchward later asserted that certain stone artefacts recovered in Mexico contained parts of the ‘Sacred Inspired Writings of Mu’, perhaps taking ideas from Augustus le Plongeon and his use of the Troana Codex to provide evidence for the existence of Mu.

Unfortunately, Churchward never produced any evidence to back up his exotic claims, he never published translations of the enigmatic Naacal tablets, and his books, though they still have many followers today, are perhaps better read as entertainment than factual studies of Lemuria / Mu.

Nan Madol

Nan Madol Image Source - More
It was James Churchward who first posited the theory that the site of Nan Modal, on Pohnpei Island in the North Pacific Ocean, was one of the seven cities of ancient Mu / Lemuria.

The cyclopean ruins of Nan Modal, at one time a ceremonial centre covering 11 square miles, consist of around 90 small artificial islands built up out of a lagoon, and interlinked by a network of tidal canals. These islands, situated on the tidal flats southeast of Temwen Island, Micronesia, contain house foundations, sea walls – thirty feet tall in places, tunnels and burial vaults, all constructed entirely from prismatic basalt columns stacked crisscross like log cabins. These rocks weigh several tons on average, with the largest weighing 25 tons.

Nol Modal Image Source

What makes the construction all the more remarkable is that the stone had to be transported some distance to the site, as no quarries have been found nearby, though they do exist elsewhere on the island. A clue to how this feat was achieved are crystal basalt columns discovered at the bottom of the lagoon near Temwen Island and on the shores of other islets in the area, which would suggest that the stones were transported by raft.

Modern Pohnpeians, on the other hand, believe the stones were flown over the island using black magic. Radio carbon dates and analysis of pottery from Nan Madol reveal that construction of the site began around 1200 CE, though the area may have been occupied from as early as 200 BCE. Such dates would certainly preclude any connection with Churchward’s Lemurians or their descendents.

At the beginning of the 13th century CE the island of Pohnpei is thought to have been conquered and unified by the mysterious ‘saudeleur’ dynasty, and it was then that the spectacular complex was constructed as a ceremonial and political seat for the new royal line. The saudeleur line was brought to an end in the 1500s by exiled Pohnpeian warrior, Isokelekel. The new chiefs, known as Nahnmwarki, occupied Nan Madol for a couple of hundred years, but by the 1800’s when the first Europeans arrived, the site was deserted. Why this happened remains one of the many mysteries of this incredible site.

The Kerguelen Continent

Kerguelen Plateau Read more

In the last twenty or so years submerged civilisations have once again been in the news due in particular to a number of intriguing underwater discoveries. In 1999 the Joint Oceanographic Institutions for Deep Earth Sampling (JOIDES) Resolution research vessel made an amazing discovery drilling in an area of the southern Indian Ocean about 3,000 km to the southwest of Australia.

The researchers discovered that an underwater plateau about a third the size of Australia, known as the Kerguelen Plateau, was actually the remains of a lost continent, which sank beneath the waves around 20 million years ago. The team found fragments of wood, a seed, spores and pollen, in 90 million year old sediment, as well as types of rocks associated with explosive volcanism.

One of the many fascinating points about the Kerguelen Plateau is that it contains sedimentary rocks similar to those found in India and Australia, which indicates that they were at one time connected. Scientists believe that around 50 million years ago, the continent may have had tropical flora and fauna, including small dinosaurs. With further research planned, the fascinating puzzle of the Kerguelen Plateau may yet resurrect the Lemuria debate.

Yonaguni Island and the Gulf of Cambay

Yonaguni Image Source - More @ YouTube

In 1985 off the southern coast of Yonaguni Island, the westernmost island of Japan, a Japanese dive tour operator discovered a previously unknown stepped pyramidal edifice. Shortly afterwards, Professor Masaki Kimura, a marine geologist at Ryukyu University in Okinawa, confirmed the existence of the 183m wide, 27m high structure.

This rectangular stone ziggurat, part of a complex of underwater stone structures in the area which resemble ramps, steps and terraces, is thought to date from somewhere between 3,000 to 8,000 years ago. Some researchers have suggested these ruins are the remains of a submerged civilisation – and that the structures represent perhaps the oldest architecture in the world. Connections with Lemuria and Atlantis have also been mentioned.

However, some geologists, such as Robert Schoch of Boston University, and others with knowledge of the area, insist that the underwater ‘buildings’ are natural, mainly the result of ocean erosion and coral reef settlements and similar to other known geological formations in the region. Furthermore, archaeologists also point out that no man-made tools or weapons have been recovered from the site, which would indicate human settlement.

In December 2000 a team from the National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT) claimed to have discovered the remains of a huge lost city 36 metres underwater in the Gulf of Cambay, off the western coast of India. A year later further acoustic imaging surveys were undertaken and evidence recorded for apparent human settlement at the site, which included the foundations of huge structures, pottery, sections of walls, beads, pieces of sculpture and human bone. One of the wooden finds supposedly from the city has given a radiocarbon date of 7500 BCE, which would make the site 4,000 years earlier than the oldest known civilisation in India.

Research is ongoing at this fascinating site, now known as the Gulf of Khambat Cultural Complex (GKCC), which if the dates are proved correct, may one day radically alter our understanding of the world’s first civilisations. However, it must be added that a number of marine geologists believe that the NIOT scientists have made serious errors in their interpretations of the sonar images obtained from the area. The opinion of these researchers is that the supposedly ancient ‘ruins’, shown as geometric patterns on the images, are natural rock formations and there is no evidence that the artefacts discovered in the area of the site, including the radio-carbon dated block of wood, are associated with it. The debate is still continuing among geologists, archaeologists and historians on this controversial discovery.

Whether any of these underwater finds in the Pacific and Indian Oceans prove to be the remains of forgotten civilisations or not, one thing is certain – man will always be searching for a lost homeland or a more spiritually satisfying ancient past. In this sense Lemuria or Mu will always be more than just a physical place.

Sources and Further Reading

The Lost Continent of Mu by J. Churchward, C.W. Daniel Co. Ltd, 1994 (1931).
The Lost Land of Lemuria: Fabulous Geographies, Catastrophic Histories by Sumathi Ramaswamy, University of California Press, 2005.
The Secret Doctrine II – Anthropogenesis by H.P. Blavatsky, Theosophical University Press, Pasadena, California, 1970 (1888).
Other Temples, Other Gods: The Occult in Australia by N. Drury & G. Tillett, Sydney, Hodder & Stoughton, 1982.
‘Lost Continent Discovered’. The Kerguelen discovery.
‘Questionable Claims’. The finds in the Gulf of Khambat.
Morien Institue page about Yonaguni.
‘Pohnpei – Between Time and Tide’.
Dr. William S. Ayres’s site about his work in Nan Madol.

BRIAN HAUGHTON is an author and researcher who lives and writes in Patra, Greece. His publications include an article 'The Watseka Wonder' in issue 1 of the UK's Paranormal Magazine, articles on the BBC’s Legacies website, and in Bizarre Bazaar, All Destiny and World Mysteries. His latest book Hidden History: Lost Civilizations, Secret Knowledge, and Ancient Mysteries is published by New Page books. Brian has established a website devoted to the lives of mysterious, strange and paranormal people at www.mysteriouspeople.com. He can be contacted via email at brian@mysteriouspeople.com.

© Copyright New Dawn Magazine, http://www.newdawnmagazine.com. Permission granted to freely distribute this article for non-commercial purposes if unedited and copied in full, including this notice.

Article from: http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Article/
The_Lost_Lands_of_Mu_and_Lemuria.html

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Related: The Secret of Eurasia - The Key to Hidden History
The Dawn of Aquarius - A New People, A New Consciousness, A New Era
A meeting explored works of Helena Blavatsky
Red Ice Creation Radio - Michael Tsarion - Theosophy, Blavatsky and Hijacked Organizations (Subscription)
Maya codices
Ernst Haeckel
Philip Sclater
Rosa Campbell Praed
Lemuria (continent)
John David Hennessey
James Churchward
Nan Madol
About Nan Madol
Saudeleur
Kerguelen Plateau
Ruins in the Gulf of Cambay
Submerged city in the Gulf of Khambat
Red Ice Creations Radio - Michael Tsarion - The West to East Movement of Civilization, Land Bridges & Age of Catastrophe
NASA Images Find 1,750,000 Year Old Man-Made Bridge between India and Sri Lanka
Lost city of of Mu 'found'
Theosophical Maps of Lemuria

snoopsnuffleopagus

03-09-2007, 05:26 PM

synergy777

03-09-2007, 05:30 PM

Peace & Greetings! Synergy777:

Have you ever heard of Eckankar? The Fountainhead, Primary Source of All, is the ECK. Emanates light and vibration(sound, eg:'HU'), from this all 'things' are formed. It deals with many Planes of existence and Astral-Traveling is a big part of this Doctrine.

Current 'Living ECK Master: Sri Paul Twitchil. Highly organized, many books.

Akin to much of what is discussed on this Forum, but I have not noticed one mention of it.

Respectfully: Snoopsnuffleopagus

no i have not, but wonderful news snoop. also we say wahe-guru when addressing the creator in our prayers. wahe/yhwh, then the nazarite vows, etc. there is only one religion, one truth, just sent to all corners as the creator would not leave any of his creations without guidance. the ek onkaar sign is sanskrit, like the aum/amen sign. not really into symbols/idoltary, as i know its scope for manipulation by the elite is huge. but the ek onkaar due to its age, region, has always resonated, one creator.

any links bro.

synergy777

03-09-2007, 05:54 PM

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/

This has become a huge site with lots of information for the promotion of personal and social spiritual development, especially by using the Vedic path. This site has something for everyone interested in Spiritual Enlightenment, Eastern Philosophy, the Vedas, Vedic Culture, Yoga, Hinduism, reincarnation, or life after death. It also deals with traveling to the holy places of India, the science of the soul, understanding God, vegetarianism, as well as global peace.

http://www.salagram.net/VWHEurope.html

Vedik Europe

snoopsnuffleopagus

03-09-2007, 07:31 PM

Aloha! Synergy777:

Looks like they 'arose' about 1965. The web address is: eckankar.org

I read several of their books in the 70s and 80s. The usual 'I am a meat spacesuit, a speck of stardust cosmic consciousness and the 'Golden Rule', no Box Lunch or nuthin else'. I call this: 'The "CiggyatWork Doctrine".

I was thinking of a 'commonality' of all Human Beings. This could be the "Sparkle" in our eyes. For when 'Life is Good', really good, our eyes sparkle, and even in hard times, though not as frequent, still appears. I was gazing at my navel and wondered whether this could be an indicator(the sparkle in the eye) as to the status of our Qi (chi). Which is said ALL HUMAN BEINGS possess.

Respectfully: Snoopsnuffleopagus

synergy777

03-09-2007, 07:47 PM

'The "CiggyatWork Doctrine".

you know ciggy, he is one the most cleverest people i know.

the eyes reflect the soul, you can look at a persons eyes and read/feel everything. although i have found in mine, the the the good side is balanced by a fiery/shiva side, which is useful, but only when necessary. like is say, a buddhist with a shotgun, lol

the biological issues are science, the climate/environment/lifestyle is changing, we must adapt, all can be overcome. with humankind united, our will, intellect, tech all is possible.

1 love, no fear.

kasalt

03-09-2007, 07:52 PM

Eckankar: THE SCIENTOLOGY CONNECTION
Paul Twitchell and L. Ron Hubbard

Paul Twitchell regularly wrote for a Scientologist magazine entitled, Ability, which was published in Silver Spring, Maryland. For instance, in issue 61 of "Ability" Twitchell wrote an article called "The Psychology of Slavery" and in issue 70 he composed a piece titled "Outsight." In both articles Twitchell speaks very highly of L. Ron Hubbard. Below are two pertinent excerpts which exemplify Twitchell's keen regard for the founder of Scientology:

"To build an attitude of defeat into the mind's of the enemy is the constant goal of the dictators. Fortunately for the human race there are capable individuals who, like L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, leader of one of the many groups, are working to help man free himself from such ruthless control. Freedom from artificial conditioning of ingrained reflexes against enslavement of the reactive mind makes such individuals dangerous to the totalitarians. Scientology can undo, fortunately, the poison of psychology the mass-mind has been fed.
[Paul Twitchell, "The Psychology of Slavery," Ability (Issue 61, 1957), page 6.]

"Some religious teachings, especially the Hindu practices, affirm that one needs a Guru, or Teacher, for guidance even though the pupil can exteriorize at will. The difference between Scientology and these religious practices is that Ron Hubbard shows us what to do before and after exteriorization. Then following exteriorization we can have use of this ability of OUTSIGHT at its maximum level.

"In other words, Ron teaches us to stand upon our own feet asthetansand not depend upon a Guru to be at our side at all moments instructing us what to do, as the Hindus teach. However, a thetan must be granted beingness in order to gain experience in the handling of his capabilities, and without interference from another.

"That is why Ron never dictates or interfers with our beingness or personal lives, for he realizes that as long as a Scientologist depends upon another to help him he is still effect, not working from cause point, and his self-determinism is low."
[Paul Twitchell, "Outsight," Ability (Issue 70, 1958), page 9.]

What is most controversial about Twitchell's involvement with Scientology, though, is the fact that he blatantly plagiarized from L. Ron Hubbard's works.

http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsma2.html

Twichell and Hubbard were in cahoots. If you want to know what kind of person L. Ron Hubbard was, look at this thread from Tinmenace which contains an interview with Ron's son, Hubbard Jr.:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5984

This website documents Twitchell's plagiarisms:

The Center for Twitchellian Plagiarism
http://vclass.mtsac.edu:930/phil/center.htm

snoopsnuffleopagus

03-09-2007, 08:05 PM

Greetings & Salutations!, Ksalt:

Did you notice the simularity between Ek-Onkar and Eckankar. Those rascals. I personally knew alot of people that got into it while in the 70s and 80s, I see they are still around. The groups I knew did alot of 'High Talking, but in actuality did alot of 'Low Walking'. as individuals. So I did not see it as a guide for character development like the Tao Tse Ching or the Torah, etc.

To be fair and informed I read several of their books which I discarded.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

synergy777

03-09-2007, 08:17 PM

the people like scientolgy etc always mix falsehoods with things borrowed from the truth, to give their fantasy crap an air of credilbilty. the thetan angle is basically fallen/nephilm/demons and annunaki slave species, all rolled into one easy to purchase mc-religion. its a crap book dianetics, i found the film battlefield earth better, lol

synergy777

06-09-2007, 05:48 PM

why would the creator need to do that ?, if he/she can create galaxies etc at will, why the need to come down as a human. to me it shows lack of respect, logic and arrogance. to think the creator would come into the form of human/animal, "ye shall be as gods". its the human ego trying to raise itself to the same level as the creator.

also who did yashuah cry out to on the cross.

when he said " why have you forsaken me"

why was he talking to the creator, when he was the creator himself ? why talk about the creator, to the creator, pray to the creator, when you are the creator?

personally those that say the creator came here as flesh are arrogant blaspheming fools, who show no respect for the creator. logic defeats blind faith, so very easily. lost sheep, is what you are. arrogant wannabe gods, to be frank.

as for reading the bible, and following it, the recognition of scripture, seems to be selective, follow which exalts you, ignoring that which condemns you. the only people you are kidding is yourself, they call it stockholm syndrome/emperors new clothes.

shall we talk about the tribe of dan, son pf perdition ?

snoopsnuffleopagus

06-09-2007, 06:11 PM

Cordial Felicitations:

Greetings Syn777!: It is said: Yahshua was reciting Psalm 22:1; Mattithyah(matthew) 46: 'Yli, Yli!, lamah ozabatniy'(My stength, My strength! Why have you forsaken me?

47: Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said; This man calls for the Prophet Yliyah(strength of Yahweh)(elijah).

Yahshua never took personal 'credit' for any actions or teachings. Rather, all credit was given to our Father Yahweh. He told us to obey Father Yahweh as He does, and informed us how to obey.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

synergy777

06-09-2007, 06:19 PM

lydia78

07-09-2007, 12:12 PM

snoop, exactly, he never said he was the creator in flesh, its the godman death cult elite who corrupted all of this. what makes me laugh is the view, that he "paid" for us by dying, well being murdered. ""everyone loves the one payment plan, and you are saved "", its jokes, they have the minds of fools, the price of everything and the value of nothing.

people are so shallow, self absorbed. oh he got murdered, for us, and now we are saved, right, thats done with, lets carry on regardless, being greedy, envious etc, and everythings ok, knock on wood, anybody there, lol the only reason he ever got murdered was due to weak people, how they forget.

It also encourages martyrship....the victimization construct

Sacrifice of the mind, body or spirit in the name of the saviour

serves only to deplete the harmony and connection with the innerself and

connection to their truth

Martyrs live their life in service to a construct based on misery and

pain....opus dei being an extreme..(nice energetic imprint for the masses to

follow), instead of celebrating life and the journey to truth and infinite love.

synergy777

07-09-2007, 12:56 PM

anyone can die for the creator, few can live for him/her.

lydia78

07-09-2007, 12:58 PM

anyone can die for the creator, few can live for him/her.

well said.;)

synergy777

07-09-2007, 01:15 PM

lydia check the romani thread, tell me what you think, cheers.

lydia78

07-09-2007, 01:29 PM

lydia check the romani thread, tell me what you think, cheers.

Will do m'dear :)

Will get back to you later on, gotta go pick up my sister from the train station...

synergy777

07-09-2007, 08:25 PM

BBC unveils hi-tech Jesus

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1243339.stm

Looking for the historical Jesus

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/t...dio/1243954.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/1243954.stm)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7889/1243954jesus300iw1.jpg

synergy777

09-09-2007, 08:31 PM

DeDanaan
http://dedanaan.com/untilled-fields-of-irish-history/a-celtic-chronology/
A Celtic Chronology
Filed by Aine MacDermot
A Celtic Chronology : From Russia’s Steppes to America’s Door; From Kurgans to Americans

Compiled by Gerard Patrick Moran, 1998
Additional notes, minor corrections, and notations by Aine MacDermot.

Most all the early information in this chronology is based on an oral tradition that was written many hundreds of years later, so that fact and legend often became confused. Much of it , distilled of elaboration, has been supported by archaeological studies.

3000BC A nomadic people of the Russian Steppe (from the lower Volga River past the Caspian Sea and Lake Aral to the lower Yenesei River in Siberia), the Kurgan, tame the horse. These people buried their dead in mounds. The name, ‘kurgan’, is Russian for mound. Some historians call these peoples the Ur people.

2400 The mounted Kurgan move to the north Black Sea area invading and mixing with a culture known as the North Pontic, who lived on the Dnieper River on the north bank of the Black Sea. Their name came from the old name for the Black Sea which was Pontus Euxeinos. From there the North Pontic-Kurgan peoples invaded southeast into the area inhabited by a culture known as Trans-Caucasian. These people lived on both sides of the Caucasus Mountains. From the merging of these people a new people known as the Indo-Europeans developed. The Indo-European language presaged the following languages:

http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/
Vedic Origins : Children of Danu
Filed by Aine MacDermot
Vedic Origins of the Europeans: The Danavas, Children of Danu

From: The Rig Veda and the History of India (Rig Veda Bharata Itihasa)
By David Frawley
(Aditya Prakashan, August 2001)
©2001 American Institute of Vedic Studies

Permission was granted by the author, in writing, to DeDanaan.com, 05 Mar 2003, to repost the article in its entirety.

Note: This article shows how the Proto-European Aryans, like the Celts, were originally a Vedic people called the Danavas or Sudanavas (good Danavas) connected to Vedic kings, sages and yogis.

Many ancient European peoples, particularly the Celts and Germans, regarded themselves as children of Danu, with Danu meaning the Mother Goddess, who was also, like Sarasvati in the Rig Veda, a river Goddess. The Celts called themselves “Tuatha De Danaan”, while the Germans had a similar name. Ancient European river names like the Danube and various rivers called Don in Russia, Scotland, England and France reflect this, as do place names like Den-mark (Danava-Marga), to mention but a few. The Danube which flows to the Black Sea is their most important river and could reflect their eastern origins.

In fact, the term Danu or Danava (the plural of Danu) appears to form the substratum of Indo-European identity at the base of the Hellenic, Illyro-Venetic, Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic elements. The northern Greeks were also called Danuni. Therefore, the European Aryans could probably all be called Danavas.

http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/our-druid-cousins/
Our Druid Cousins
Filed by Aine MacDermot
Our Druid Cousins
By Peter Berresford Ellis
Hinduism Today 2/2000

Meet the brahmins of ancient Europe, the high caste of Celtic society.

The Celtic people spread from their homeland in what is now Germany across Europe in the first millennium bce. Iron tools and weapons rendered them superior to their neighbors. They were also skilled farmers, road builders, traders and inventors of a fast two-wheeled chariot. They declined in the face of Roman, Germanic and Slavic ascendency by the second centuries bce. Here Peter Berresford Ellis, one of Europe’s foremost experts of the Celts, explains how modern research has revealed the amazing similarities between ancient Celt and Vedic culture. The Celt’s priestly caste, the Druids, has become a part of modern folklore. Their identity is claimed by New Age enthusiasts likely to appear at annual solstice gatherings around the ancient megaliths of northwest Europe. While sincerely motivated by a desire to resurrect Europe’s ancient spiritual ways, Ellis says these modern Druids draw more upon fanciful reconstructions of the 18th century than actual scholarship.

The Druids of the ancient Celtic world have a startling kinship with the brahmins of the Hindu religion and were, indeed, a parallel development from their common Indo-European cultural root which began to branch out probably five thousand years ago. It has been only in recent decades that Celtic scholars have begun to reveal the full extent of the parallels and cognates between ancient Celtic society and Vedic culture.

synergy777

20-09-2007, 04:38 PM

http://irishoriginsofcivilization.com/appendices/appendix8.html

thanks to tsarion

GAELIC
Comes from Gal, meaning white or pure. It has the secondary meaning of "foreigner," connoting a stranger from far away. May originate with the Sumerian, Ab-Gal, meaning "masters of wisdom." One of the great Celtic tribes was called the Fir Bolg, incorrectly and habitually translated as "Men of the Bags," when in fact it really means the "Men of Wisdom."

ogham is from sumeria/persia.

ABRAHAM
From the Sanskrit Vedas, Brahma, god of creation. His consort was Saraswati. Curiously, the consort of Abraham, father of the Hebrews, was Sarah. This god gave his name to the Bacchus of the Romans and also to their Brumalia, or winter solstice. This word though Latin actually derives from Brahma, the supreme creator god of the Hindus, god who may be equated in some ways with Saturn or Kronos. The connection between the Brahmins and the Romans had been carefully camouflaged

CHRIST (JESUS)
Comes from Egyptian Karast, meaning Anointed. This gives Caress, Cast, Krishna. The Chaldean name of the sun was CHRIS. Karast means to Caress with Oil (hence Crisco oil). Christ was called the "Anointed One," accordingly. The name Krishna also gives rise to Tristna or Tristan (Arthurian legend). Both had evil uncles, both were physically beautiful, both masters of music (flute and harp) and both played to shepherds, etc, etc. Jesus comes from Jarrus or Jasus who was also called Iesus by the Romans. The Romans knew this being as the son of a high priest and dedicated to Neptune. This is of interest since Neptune is the planet ruler of Pisces the sign of the zodiac that is associated, esoterically, with Christianity. This Jasus was known to all Rome, but had no connection to Israel. Alexander the Great made his acquaintance. Moreover, the Druids had a patron god called Hesus, that had died and who would return as a Messiah. Volumes exist that have detailed the connection of the Christian Messiah with the more ancient Druidic schools. The Druids also worshipped the "Bloody Cross," long prior to the people of the Middle East or Romans. Mustafa Gadalla has exposed the fact that the entire "Holy Family" of the Christians derive from the dramatis personae of the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt. (See his classic Historical Deception

VEDAS
The holy books of the Hindus. The word is the same as that of Eddas, the holy legends of the Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon Skalds. Only thing is these are peoples thousands of miles away from each other. Both Veda and Edda mean "Teachings of Knowledge." (see AVEDA)

BRITAIN
From the goddess Baratana and the name of India, given by the Indo-Europeans, who later came to England. Today the name of India is Bharat. The Indians were known as the Barats or Parats. English are the Brits.

INDIA
Derives from the ancient word Sindh, which relates to the Cult of the Moon. The Lunar Cult was very strong in Asia, as a look at the various flags and emblems will confirm. The myth of Cinderella, comes from this, the fact that the moon was considered the bride of the sun, that she wedded when entering into the sign of Leo, the sun's "palace."

maybe my mish mash of sources, is starting to fit together, like conspiracy jackson pollack, lol

synergy777

20-09-2007, 06:05 PM

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Links-Between-Ireland-and-India&id=506820

The Links Between Ireland and India
By Sean Mac Aodh

Ireland and India have a special bond as two countries who were colonized by the same power, but who had cultures very different to their oppressors. The first arrivals to Ireland were at the culmination of migration pattern that had begun back in India, and some scholars hold that the Irish language has more in common with Sanskrit than it does with English. Others note that there are similarities between ancient Irish Brehon Laws and Indian Vedic laws.

During English rule, many Irish would have gone over to India as soldiers in the British Army, others as missionaries. However, it would be a lady called Margaret Noble who would exert the biggest Irish Influence on the shape of India. Born in Tyrone in 1867, she met the great Indian spiritual figure Swami Vivekananda in 1898 in London and was captivated by his message of tolerance between all faiths and peoples. She visited India with him, and after his death, used her considerable skills in education all for the benefit of Indian women. Today, she is still remembered by modern India for her constant sacrifice to uplift the standard of education of Indian women, and for the inspiration and encouragement she gave to India's fledgling independence movement. Ireland's Easter Rising in 1916 and her subsequent independence in 1922 gave enormous encouragement to those aspiring for Indian independence - after all if a small country like Ireland could gain independence, then why not a large and faraway country like India? Similarly, the framers of India's Constitution drew inspiration from the constitution of Ireland written only ten years before.

In recent times, there has been an increased flow of people and culture between the two countries. Mother Teresa, who received the Nobel Peace Prize for her work with the poor in Calcutta, underwent her spiritual training in Ireland. In recent years, a sizeable Indian community has grown in Ireland. In addition, many Indian spiritual traditions have opened up a temple or meditation centre in Ireland, making the immense spiritual wealth of India available to the people of Ireland.

The author, Sean Mac Aodh, has a Ph.D in particle physics. He studies meditation with the help of noted teacher Sri Chinmoy, and also teaches free courses on meditation and spirituality in Dublin, Ireland. He is especially interested in Irish and Indian music

synergy777

20-09-2007, 06:36 PM

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=527274

http://www.ace.net.au/darkmoon/hornedg.htm
The Horned God in India and Europe

http://realmagick.com/articles/94/1494.html
The Celtic Vedic Connection, Part I

http://realmagick.com/articles/93/1493.html
The Horned God in India and Europe

http://www.gaeltacht.info/gael_hindi.html
Paper II: Irish and Hindi: linguistic Connections

http://sivaloka.tripod.com/ancient_links.htm
Common Roots of Vedic and Celtic Culture and Spirituality

http://www.isle-of-skye.org.uk/celtic-encyclopaedia/celt_c2c.htm
Celtic Cross - Celts and Hindus

synergy777

20-09-2007, 06:43 PM

http://tarawatch.org/?p=209

Tara Is a Site of World Significance, With Many Connections to India

Tara of the Kings

Weekly Lecture Series : Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland

Mr Charlie Doherty, UCD

The kingship of Tara—Pagan and Christian: The International context”

The international significance of the monuments on and around the Hill of Tara is only beginning to be understood, and the M3 motorway inappropriate at such an important site.

Mr Charlie Doherty of the School of Early Irish History and Archives, University College Dublin, argued this yesterday, Saturday 28th October, when he opened the Tara of the Kings lecture series at the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland (RSAI), Merrion Square, Dublin. His paper was entitled “The kingship of Tara—Pagan and Christian: The International context”

Mr Doherty first presented Tara in the Irish context, as a pagan site with a Christian dimension, like Navan Fort Cashel, and explained why Tara is the most important domestic Irish site. As an historian, he explained how scholars are now only beginning to understand Tara, and place it in a wider context, because of the non-intrusive archaeological research done at the Discovery Programme in the past decade.

Then Mr Doherty made many connections to other important sites and traditions of kingship around the world. Amazing discoveries are being made when archaeological data is matched up with linguistic and historical evidence. Tara was the site of an exceptional kingship, comparable to including others found in India, Wales and Greece.

Scholars have agreed for some time that Irish is an Indo-European language. Now, similar words and physical attributes of sites attest to the Indo-European nature of Tara. Mr Doherty explained how vestiges of this early culture survived at the edges of the region, like Ireland and India, while they disappeared in the center.

The lecture series will continue every Saturday until Christmas, and the papers given by internationally renowned scholars will be collected into a set of proceedings, to be edited by Professor Paul Muldoon, of Princeton University. Professor Muldoon, who won the Pulitzer Prize, is vehemently opposed to the M3 route through Tara. He has been described by The Times Literary Supplement as “the most significant English-language poet born since the second World War.”

4 Nov: ‘The Kingship of Tara: The Views of the Four Masters’.
Next Saturday’s lecture (4 Nov) will be given by Dr Joseph Flahive, Dept. of Old and Modern Irish, University College Cork, and will focus on The Four Masters conception of the High Kingship and the use of Tara as a semi-legendary prop of nationalism in the seventeenth century.

Lectures take place at noon, every Saturday, in the Helen Roe Lecture Theatre, 63 Merrion Square. The public are welcome and admission is free

synergy777

20-09-2007, 06:49 PM

Common Ground of European Celts & Indian Vedic Hindus
http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/europeanceltsvedichindus.html

http://veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Europe.php

The Celtic-Vedic Connection : Source: Hinduism Today

1) Celtic cosmology cognizes four interrelating worlds of existence: netherworld, earth realm; heavenly realm of dead and demi-gods; white realm of supreme Deities and energy source of stars.

Vedic cosmology perceives three interrelating worlds-physical; astral world of dead and demi-gods; causal universe of Deities, Supreme Being and primal energy; plus a fourth netherworld.

2) These worlds further divided into lands and cities occupied by spirits and disincarnate people of similar character. Time is slower in these realms.

The three worlds divide into loka habitats of existence, occupied by spirits and like-minded disincarnate people. Time is dilated in the lokas.

3) Celtic earth realm is called bitus. Celtic Gods are called deuos, meaning "shining one."

Vedic earth world is called bhu. Gods of Vedas are invoked as deva, meaning "shining one."

4) Departed souls dwelled in refined or hellish lands until their next reincarnation as a human or animal.

At death, souls continue existence in subtle or hellish realms until entry into the next human or animal body.

5) Celtic priests taught that human souls were indestructible, but the universe ends and rebuilds through fire and water in a repeating cycle.

The universe existence span-called kalpa-ends in a repeating creation/destruction cycle through fire and water, symbolic of primal light and sound.

6) Celtic deities included Gods who actualized nature forces, promulgated ethics, justice, knowledge, speech, arts, crafts, medicine, harvests, gave war courage and battled forces of darkness, and Goddesses of land, rivers and motherhood. Gods often did multiple functions.

The early Vedic pantheon included deities of fire, solar, atmospheric and nature forces, ritual stimulants, speech, crafts, arts, harvests, medicine, justice, ethical/ecological order, war, battlers of malevolent beings, river Goddesses. Gods often had overlapping functions.

7) Celtic God of thunder was Taranus who carried thunderbolts. God of fire is Aedh (pronounced uh-ee), meaning fire. The sun Deity is Sulios. The Celtic word for invocation is gutuater.

Vedic God of rain and thunder was Indra who carried thunderbolts. Vedic God of fire is Agni, meaning fire. The solar Being is Surya. The Sanskrit term for invocation is hotar.

8) Celtic cosmology conceived of cosmic creation as a primal Person sacrifice. The Celt term for breath is anal. For soul, the Celt word is anam.

Vedic cosmology describes cosmic creation as the sacrifice of Primal Being. The Vedic word for breath is prana. The soul in the Vedas is atman.

9) The central Celtic ritual was the fire sacrifice, conducted in geometric pits with offerings of herbs, mead and flour cakes, conducted by chanting druids, the Celtic priests.

The central Vedic ritual was the fire sacrifice, performed in geometric pits with offerings of ghee, spices, rice-conducted by hymn- and-mantra-chanting brahmins.

10) Celtic priests were called druids, meaning "knowers of the tree, or truth." They memorized the entire knowledge of the Celts and passed it on orally, forbidding written transmission. They were divided into several classes: seers, judges, royal advisors, hymn chanters, poet bards, sacrificers. They were also astronomers, healers and magicians.

The Vedic priesthood-the brahmins-memorized the scriptural and societal law knowledge of the Hindus, passing it on orally, forbidding writing. Brahmins formed several divisions associated with the fire ritual duties. Enlightened brahmins became rishi seers. Others advised kings and some specialized in medicine and astronomy/astrology.

11) Druids studied for 20 years in strict discipleship to master their oral, ritual, law, science and psychic arts.

Brahmins studied for 12 years in a gurukulam to master oral, ritual, mathematical, astronomical knowledge.

12) Druids memorized extremely lengthy poetic sagas that communicated spiritual metaphysics and civic laws. The poetic metre was a fixed syllable line, free form, with 3-part cadence at end.

Bards of the Vedic literature memorized lengthy poetic sagas conveying spiritual knowledge and dharmic duty. The poetic metre was a fixed syllable line, free form, with 3-part cadence at end.

13) Druids practiced breathing, posture and meditation techniques that gave degrees of ecstasy, often accompanied by intense heat in the body.

Vedic ascetics practiced breathing, posture and meditation skills in a spiritual unfoldment process called tapas (heat), generating high body heat.

14) Celtic society was divided into three hierarchical stratas of life: priests, warriors and producers (inclusive of merchants). Druids advised warrior-kings known as rix. Upward progression through classes was possible.

Vedic society divided into four hierarchical castes: priests, warriors, merchants, workers. Brahmins counseled warrior-kings (rajas). Upward mobility was sanctioned in Vedas, but later frozen in societal law books.

15) Celts prized the magical power of telling truth, honor/piety among men and eloquence in conversation and oration.

Vedic society prized the supernatural power of truth-saying, piety and honor, and eloquence in gatherings.

16) Celts honored women, guarded their virtue, and allowed by law daughters of sonless fathers to inherit property or to marry kinsmen to bear male heirs to the father. Seeresses were sanctioned, and priestesses for Goddesses favored.

Vedic Hindus prized womanly virtues, and by law sonless fathers could bequeath property to daughters or arrange her marriage to relatives for male heirs. Female seers were countenanced, and female ascetics tended Goddess rites.

17) Celts recognized 8 forms of marriage from arranged to love to abduction. A bride gift was given by the groom.

Vedic Hindus followed 8 forms of marriage from arranged to love to abduction. The groom paid a bride price.

18) Celts defined life stages, columns of age: infancy (0-1), boyhood (2-11), adolescence (12-18), young adult (19-45), old age (46-65), decrepitude (65+) in which enlightening inspiration is sought.

Vedic society taught four ashrama stages of life: studentship (12- 24); family life (25-48); elder advisor (49-72); religious solitaire (72+), in which the individual seeks enlightenment.

19) The Celtic ideal measure of life was to live 100 years.

The Vedic ideal of a fulfilled life was to live 100 autumns.

20) Celt family unit was a group of four generations from a great- grandfather.

The ancient Hindu family unit is four generations from a great- grandfather.

21) One Celt calendar was based on 62 lunar months (5 years +) intercalated to a 3-year solar cycle for solstice correction. Druids studied stellar motion, navigation and contemplated such abstracts as the size and nature of the universe.

Vedic astronomy is based on lunar months daily aligned to star positions and related to 3-year and 5-year solar cycles. Vedic astronomy was applied to astrology, and the rishi seers contemplated the universe's nature and genesis.

22) By Celt law a man owed money could fast at the door of the debtor- who must join the fast-forcing the debtor to pay or enter an arbitration.

By Hindu law, a creditor could fast at the door of the past due debtor, who then was obligated to protect the health of the creditor and pay the debt.

synergy777

20-09-2007, 06:53 PM

http://veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Europe.php

Irish Scholars: Irish and Indian the Same People

Source: THE CELTS By Gerhard Herm

Bryan Mcmahon, historian, scholar of folklore, teacher, a well known poet and much else besides, likes to test his favorite theories in practice and to retail them with all the skill and timing of a seasoned performer. He told me: Whenever I meet an Indian I take him to one side and hum the first lines of an Irish folk-song. Then I ask him to continue the melody as he likes; and, believe it or not, almost every time he will sing it to the end as if he already knew the song. Isn't that astonishing?

For me it is an indication that Indians and Irishmen have a common past; that, as I put it in one of my plays, "We Celts came from the Mysterious East."

The late Myles Dillon, formerly Prof of Celtic at U of Dublin cites a whole series of further astonishing parallels between the culture of the Aryan Indians and the Irish Druids. (Druid from Dru = Oak, Wid or Ved = Wisdom) His main contention is that in both cases there was a distinct class of scholars; the Brahmins in India, the highest reps in the Varna system; while in Ireland there were the 'wise men of the oak'. Dillon reckons that the Brahmins and the Druids should be equated because they carried out their profession-teaching and study, poetry and law-in a similar way.

There is evidence that this is so.

The principles by which justice was administered were similar, indeed identical with those in India. There a father with daughters but no sons could order one of them to take a man of his choice and produce a legal heir. Beyond the Hindu Kush mountains, such a girl was called putrika (she who takes the son's place) and in old Ireland ban-chomarba (female-heir). But who if not the Continental Celts can have told the Irish what was going on in the far east? Dillon further notes similarities: in both cultures there were 8 different forms of marriage, from arranged marriages, marriage by purchase and love- matches to kidnapping. In both cultures there was a strict distinction between inherited and earned property and when contracts were drawn up there was an exact statement as to who was to provide what guarantees before obtaining what he wanted. In one case it was the Brahmins and in the other the Druids who administered these principles.

All this, Dillon says, suggests that the Celtic Druids indeed represented the same tradition as the Hindu Brahmins... If we continue to feel our way along the parallels between India and Gaul, sooner or later we sense that the Druids were also political leaders, just as the Brahmins clearly stood above generals and warriors.

The Druids, Caesar says, taught that "souls do not disappear but wander from one body to another". Lucan in his Pharsalia - a verse epic about the Roman civil war - addressed them with the words: "If we understand you aright, death is only a pause in a long life." Does the fact that according to Scythian custom, crests depicted eagles, wolves, bears as ancestors reflect the conviction of these people that the spirit of the dead goes through many life-forms, human and animal, as the Hindus believe?

...Ancient author Diodorus's own most adventurous suggestion - "they still hold Pythagoras's belief in the immortality of the soul and rebirth." ...But since Pythagoras, with his strong influences from the east, was among the few great Hellenic philosophers who believed in the possibility of life after death, they could only conclude that his belief was related to the blonde barbarians (the Celts) or that they had taken theirs from him.

Celts and Karma

Norse Universe

Yggdrasil as a cosmic tree is sometimes called an ash and sometimes a yew. Yggdrasil, otherwise known as the World tree, grows out of the past, lives in the present and reaches toward the future. It nourishes all spiritual life and physical life. Its roots reach into all the worlds; its boughs hang above Asgard. Yggdrasil has three main roots which hold everything together. One root reaches into the well of Urd in Asgard, another into the Mimir of Midgard, and the third into the Spring of Hvelgelmir in Hel. ...

The World Tree is constantly under attack by evil creatures. ...

Of the nine worlds in the Norse Mythology, Asgard is on the highest level, with Alfheim to the east and Vanaheim to the west. The Prose Edda states that Midgard is in the center of Ginnungagap, an area of 11 rivers and frozen wasteland. It is Midgard that ties together all the other worlds. On the same level as Midgard is Svartalfheim to the south, Nidavellir to the east, and Jotunheim to the west. Below Midgard lie Hel and Nilfheim. The Aesir gods live in Asgard, the Vanir in Vanaheim, and the Light Elves in Alfheim or Ljossalfheim. ...

Niflheim is the world of the dead, ruled by the goddess Hel, while the kingdom Hel is realm of the dead, ruled by Urd. ...

Niflheim or Niflhel lies south of Midgard. It is an immense land of darkness and great cold, an area of torture for evil souls. To reach Niflheim, one has to travel downwards for nine days from Midgard on the Helway. This road goes through great forests and deep dark valleys, over high mountains. There is a deep black cave between the two levels of Midgard and Hel. Near the end of the Helway, the maiden Modgud guards the Gjallarbru or Gjoll. Beyond the bridge are the Hel gates (Helgrind) and behind them the Hall of Death. The Goddess Hel s palace is called Sleetcold or Sleet-Den. ...

Hel is the lower world Thingstead of the Gods. There the souls of the dead are judged by Odhinn, and rewards or punishments handed out. Even the Valkyries must first bring their chosen warriors to this Thingstead where they are accepted or rejected as unworthy.

At the lower world Thingstead, the Hamingjur (individual guarding spirits) can speak for an individual during judgement. If the person is evil he or she is deserted by his/her Hamingjur. Those souls judged good go to Hel where they live in eternal joy. Those condemned as evil are shackled and driven to Niflhel by the Dark Elves. They must drink burning venom and are subjected to the nine realms of torture.

Out of Norse Magick; By Rev. D.J. Conway. Llewllyn, ISBN 0-87542-137-7

New Proof Of Ancient India's Flourishing Trade With Rome

By Anand Parthasarathy, KOCHI 6-14-2

A gruelling nine-year-long international archaeological expedition in Egypt, has unearthed the most extensive evidence so far, of vigorous trade between India and the Roman Empire " 2000 years ago.

The project funded by Dutch and American agencies, at Berenike, on the Sudan-Egypt border along the shores of the Red Sea, has revealed that the location was the southern-most, military sea port of the Roman Empire in the first century A.D. and the key transfer point for a flourishing trade with India, whose magnitude was hitherto not known.

In major findings to be published in the July issue of the monthly scientific journal Sahara and announced today at the archaeological database website of the expedition, researchers report having unearthed the largest single cache of black pepper "about 8 kg" ever excavated from a Roman dig. They were able to establish that this variety was only grown in antiquity in South India.

Because of the drier weather of Egypt, the Berenike site preserved organic substances from India, like sail cloth, matting and baskets dating to AD 30-AD 70, all traces of which were destroyed in the more humid climate of the subcontinent.

In one of the surprise findings, the archaeologists also report stumbling on a Roman "trash dump" containing well-preserved evidence of Indian `batik' work and ancient printed textiles as well as ceramics.

All this leads archaeologists, Willeke Wendrich of the University of California, and Steven Sidebotham of the Delaware University to conclude in next month's paper that a "Spice Route" from India to Rome, existed long before the better known "Silk Route" to China.

They suggest that the goods traveled from the west coast Indian ports to Berenike by ships in the monsoon months, and were then transported by camel and Nile river boats, to the Mediterranean port of Alexandria, from where ships conveyed the cargo to Rome by sea.

This route was preferred for almost 50 years because the alternative land route through what is today Pakistan and Iran, passed through countries hostile to the Roman Empire.

"We talk about globalism as if it were the latest thing", Wendrich is quoted by the Associated Press as saying, but trade was going on in antiquity on a scale that is truly impressive".

The Berenike route was finally abandoned in AD 500 probably after a plague epidemic.

The new findings are said to establish what was long suspected - the central role that India played in the maritime trade 2000 years ago.

www.rense.com/general26/trade.htm
Berenike Project

synergy777

20-09-2007, 07:02 PM

http://veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Europe.php

Roman Settlement of Kaveripattinam

Alexander the Great, born in 256 BC in Pella, Macedonia. At the age of thirteen he became a pupil of Aristotle. Alexander routed Darius and forced his entire army east. After this the city of Babylon surrendered, which allowed Alexander to easily capture Susa and Persepolis.

Darius was soon killed by one of his generals which made Alexander King of Asia. He did not rest for long, as he had set his sights on India. In 326 BC Alexander defeated Porus, the prince of India. Alexander was now at the height of his power. His empire stretched from the Ionian Sea to northern india. Alexander had greater plans. He wanted to combine Asia and Europe into one country, and named Babylon the new capital. The most profitable overseas trade was the Roman trade with South India. Yavana merchants (i.e. merchants from western Asia and the Mediterranean) had trading establishments both in the Satavahana kingdoms and in those of the far south. Early South Indian literature describes Yavan ships arriving with their cargoes at the city of Kaveripattinam. Excavations in 1945 uncovered a sizable Roman settlement which was a trading station, it would seem that the Roman were using Arikamedu from the first century BC to the early second century AD.

The frequency of hoards of Roman coins found in the Deccan and south India indicate the volume of this trade. Most of the urban centers of the south were ports which prospered on this trade. Western culture had its early birth in Greece and Rome. India came into contact with Greece politically in the days of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC. But the cultural contact of the Greek as well as the Greece-Roman world with India was in all probability far earlier and lasted quite longer so far as South India was concerned. The Great Greek dramatists of the 4th century BC., particularly Euripides and Aristophanes, appear to have been familiar with the Kannada country and the Kannada language, and had actually used Kannada phrases and expressions in the dialogues of their characters. This shows a far more intimate contact of the Greeks with Kannada India culture than with Indian Culture elsewhere. Kannada and Tamil are two of the most ancient literature's not only of South India, but of all India as well. The antiquity of Kannada literature as at present back to the 9th century of the Christian era.

A study of Roman coins in south India forms a fascinating but little known chapter in the history of south India. A large number of Roman coins of gold and silver found in south India and Karnataka testify to a highly flourishing trade between India and Rome during the early part of the first century AD. In addition to these hoards of Roman coins, many antiquities and pottery having connections with Roman culture have been unearthed at many sites in this area. Further, there are a large number of references to Rome in Indian and Greek literary texts. All these point to an era of brilliant maritime contact between India and Rome in the early centuries of the Christian era.

Large number of Roman coins found in Karnataka were made of gold, silver and copper. From the beginning of the Christian era to the third century AD., Roman silver and gold coins were brought into this region for the purchase of Indian commodities which were in great demand in Rome. These coins have been found at various places in the Chera, Pandya and Chola countries in large numbers. These coins were often converted into Indian coins by a simple method.

REFERENCES: 1. Coins and Currency system N. Karnataka Dr. A.V. Narasimha Murthy.

The Sanskrit Dialect Known as English

By Neil Kalia Robinson

(Abstract of Paper to be Presented at WAVES 2002 Conference Being held at U of Mass. in Dartmouth, Mass.)

In western curriculum there is a tendency to exclude Sanskrit as a root to the English language. Numbers and alphabet are categorized as Roman or Arabic. There is however recognition of the Indo-Aryan or Indo European language group which Sanskrit is admittedly an elder member.

How important is the role of Sanskrit in regards to world languages and in this case English, possibly the most dominant language in the modern world?

It is imperative to note that the English language, except for the current written alphabet, is as close to ancient Sanskrit as Hindi, Bengali or any other dialect from India. And yes, English numerals are Sanskrit not Arabic or Roman.

It is helpful to understand that many English words have no intrinsic denominator without application or aid of Sanskrit.

The compound word San-Skrit, San; meaning whole, equal, complete, total or amount and Skrit; meaning script, scribe etc. Thus reveals the common basis and subtle collusion of English words to be non different than Sanskrit i.e. San; Sum, some, syn, same, sane, saint etc. all these English words meaning either whole, total, equal or even.

To opine that in time Sanskrit developed its refined status from a earlier more crude form of the Indo-European or other language family is herein questionable due to the vivid, concise depth of Sanskrit Syllabary and antiquated references

An example is given that the Name for the human race "Man" has come from "Manu" (Manoah, Noah, Nuh), the "Manvantara" descendant from the Vivasvan, the solar deity.

The word "Man" has no sufficient origins given in English. According to Vedic chronology the story of Manu stretches so far into antiquity that it no longer finds cohesive analogy in English literature, except perhaps in form of the Biblical story of Noah.

In United States of America we have no monarchy so the title "King" can only refer to periods and places where where it actually did or currently exist, such as The "Queen" of England. Yet we still use the word "King and Queen" in North America, because in the past it was used frequently in reference to actual monarchy.

Even though there are no lions in England the Kings where still known as lion hearted. Coats of arms often portrayed lions attributing the qualities of the lions to the kings such as courage, strength, chivalry, generosity and resourcefulness.

The old English spelling of King is "Cing" As in ancient Sanskrit appellation King, Cing, Singh, Simha or Simba (Swahili) for lion meaning powerful chief or leader.

The English language, full of such descendants perceived directly in relation to its sister dialects, Hindi and Bengali is no further remote from Sanskrit. Apparently Sanskrit similarly supplies integral structure and identifying roots of English.

Could the very word "Sanskrit" claim what it may well be a "Samskrit" or "complete alphabet" of a universal language originating from the subtlemost realm of consciousness?

Even Professor Max Mueller had to acknowledge the greatness of the Devanagari script admitting its very perfection and realizing its antecedent superiority. Vedic Sanskrit of Ancient India very possibly may contain the "perfect" contributing factor providing spiritual and metaphysical roots and reason to many branches of global languages.

Lakshmi-Hari Worship in Ancient Denmark

Dr Subhash Kak

One of the things you have mentioned is the Gundestrup Cauldron (Scientific American, March 1992), something that was unearthed in a peat bog in Denmark. Apparently it shows strong evidence -- including goddess-images similar to Lakshmi and Hariti and a god-image similar to Vishnu -- of cross-cultural connections between Indic civilizations and those of far northern Europe. You have also noted the apparent connections between Celtic/Druidic pre-Christian cultures of Europe and Hindu practices. Is this merely circumstantial evidence or does it prove conclusively that there was a migration of peoples westward from India, rather than eastwards into India (the Aryan Invasion Theory)?

There is whole host of evidence that proves that Indian ideas, if not people (that is apart from the gypsies), traveled from India to Europe. Indic people were apparently present in Palestine, Turkey, Babylon in the 2nd millennium BCE. The names of the ruling dynasties of these places and some Sanskritic inscriptions tell us this. The father of the beautiful Nefertiti, Queen of Egypt, was a king of the Near East named Tusharatha or Dasharatha.

The Puranas also say an Indian tribe called the Druhyus emigrated West. Whether they emigrated all the way to Europe, we cannot say. What is likely to have happened is that an Indic element became the political and religious aristocracy in many countries, all the way up to Europe. This may also explain the parallels between Indian and European mythology.

What are the parallels between Indian and European mythology?

We have these parallels at many levels: in names and in the grammar of the myths. Let's begin with names. There are two Rigvedic skygods, Varuna and Dyaus; the corresponding Greek skygods are Ouranos and Zeus. Similar to Agni and Bhaga we have the Slavic Ogun and Bogu. For Aryaman and Indra we have the Celtic Eremon and Andrasta; Ribhu and Ushas are the Greek Orpheus and Eos. The list goes on and on, and the most interesting thing is that the Vedic list is comprehensive and we see parts of it remembered in different parts of Europe suggesting that the Vedic is the original.

The Vedic gods belong to three categories: the terrestrial, the atmospheric, and the celestial, if we see them superficially, as the Indologists of the 19th century saw them. In reality, they represent categories in the spiritual firmament: they are shadows of the One. The Europeans also saw their mythology in similar terms which is why when the Greeks came to India they declared that Shiva and Krishna were like their own Dionysius and Herakles.

There are still deeper connections, and these have been examined by the scholar Georges Dumezil in a series of fascinating books. In Rome, the raj-brahmin dichotomy of India was paralleled by the rex-flamen division. The injunctions to the flamen -- the keeper of the flame -- are very similar to those to the brahmin. The gandharvas in India had a shadowy role related to music and fecundity; in Rome this was assigned to centaurs. Dumezil found enough parallels to fill five or six books. Joseph Campbell also wrote about these connections in his books, as have many others.

After the Old Religion of Europe was extinguished, Indian myths continued to influence Europe. From the lives of Krishna and Buddha a nascent Christianity adopted the stories of miraculous conception and birth, the star over the birthplace, the twelve disciples, and the various miracles. Parables such as that of the pious disciple whose faith makes it possible to walk on water, or the story where the master feeds his numerous disciples with a single cake or bread were borrowed. Medieval Christianity took some Indian Jataka tales and transformed them into accounts of Christian saints. The most famous of such instances is how a Buddha legend from the Lalitavistara became the story of Barlaam and Josaphat!

If there were was no Aryan Invasion, then what exactly happened to the Indus-Sarasvati civilization? A major civilization that spread some thousands of square miles and was apparently quite sophisticated cannot simply vanish.

It never vanished. There was a shift of population after the economy around the Sarasvati river collapsed due to the drying up of the river. People moved to the east and to the northwest and to the south. There was no break in the cultural tradition. The same ceramic styles continued. Only the level of prosperity went down. The Vedic books also speak of a period when the rishis went to the forests, the age of the Aranyakas. The Puranic books speak of a catastrophe in 1924 BCE.

Your work in archaeo-astronomy suggests unambiguously that the Max Mueller chronology of the Vedas must be rejected and that the Rig Veda must be dated not to ca. 1500 BCE, but to ca. 3000 BCE. What is the impact of this?

Well if not 3000 BCE, certainly prior to 2000 BCE. Max Mueller was absolutely wrong. What is the impact of the new dates? It changes the history of ancient India and that of the rest of the ancient world. It gives a centrality to India in world history.

Your recent book with Georg Feuerstein and David Frawley, In Search of the Cradle of Civilization (Quest Books, Indian edition to be published by Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi), suggests that in fact India was the site of the very first civilization, not Sumer in Iraq. If this is true, then India has not only the oldest continuous and surviving civilization, but in fact it is the birthplace of civilization. Could you elaborate on this?

Look, India has had cultural continuity for at least 10,000 years. Before that we had a rock-art tradition which, according to some estimates, goes back to 40,000 BCE. Not only are we one of the most ancient civilizations, we have found in India the record of the earliest astronomy, geometry, mathematics, and medicine. Artistic, philosophical and religious impulses, central to the history of mankind, arose first in India.

You have done considerable research on the structure of the fire altars in Scriptural ritual (The Astronomical Code of the Rigveda, Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi), and you have demonstrated that there was a very formal and mathematical basis to the construction of these. Could you explain?

Vedic Indians were scientific. They believed in laws of nature. They represented their astronomy in terms of the altar constructions. One problem they considered was that of the synchronization of the lunar and the solar years: the lunar year is about 11 days shorter than the solar year and if we add a round number of days every few years to make up for the discrepancy, we find we cannot do it elegantly unless we have a correction cycle of 95 years or its multiples. This 95-year cycle is described in the earliest Vedic prose books.

The altars were to be built to slightly larger dimensions each year of the cycle to represent the corrections. There were other symbolic constructions. Like building a square altar (representing the sky) with the same area as a circular altar (representing the earth), which is the problem of squaring the circle. This led to the discovery of the earliest geometry. They were aware that the sun and the moon were at 108 times their own diameters from the earth.

These fire altars are at this time obsolete, right? Nobody uses them any more, or is that not so? The only time I have heard of them before reading your work was when I read of an impoverished Nambudiri (Kerala brahmin) family whose illam or house was being sold, and they had fire altars in the shape of a falcon, and the old head of the household said this 5,000-year-old tradition was dying because they couldn't afford the rituals any more.

It is a great pity that we are letting our cultural and civilizational treasures die right before our eyes. We must do whatever we can to preserve and celebrate this heritage.

You have mentioned a connection, apparently evident in the Vedas, between internal and external things -- for instance between the rhythms in the human body and astronomical cycles. Could you elaborate?

A central Vedic belief was that there are connections between the outer and the inner. The rishis declared that it was due to these connections that we are enabled to know the world. One dramatic aspect of these connections are the biological cycles which run the same periods as various astronomical cycles. For example, the Purusha Hymn of the Rigveda says that the mind is born of the moon. Just recently, by research on volunteers, who stayed in underground caves for months without any watches or other cues about time, it was found that the natural cycle for the mind is 24 hours and 50 minutes. The period of the moon is also 24 hours and 50 minutes. Our clock is reset every day by daylight!

The connections between the outer and the inner were also represented by other symbols. The 108 sun diameters from the earth of the sun were paralleled by the 108 beads of the rosary for a symbolic spiritual journey from the normal state to one of illumination.

I have read the book edited by you and Dr TRN Rao (Computing Science in Ancient India, University of Southwestern Louisiana Press) on some surprising mathematics: pi to many decimal places, Sayana's accurate calculation of the speed of light, hashing algorithms, the binary number system of Sanskrit meters -- are these mere coincidences or is there conclusive evidence of advanced mathematics?

The binary number system, hashing, various codes, mathematical logic (Navya Nyaya), or a formal framework that is equivalent to programming all arose in ancient India. This is all well known and it is acknowledged by scholars all over the world. I shouldn't forget to tell you that a most advanced calculus, math and astronomy arose in Kerala several centuries before Newton.

In particular, I am amazed, as a layman, by the evidence that Sayana, circa 1300 CE, who was prime minister at the court of the Vijayanagar Emperor Bukka I, calculated the speed of light to be 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha, which does come to 186,536 miles per second. (more)

Truly mind-boggling! The speed of light was first measured in the West only in the late 17th century. So how could the Indians have known it? If you are a sceptic, then you will say it is a coincidence that somehow dropped out of the assumptions regarding the solar system. If you are a believer in the powers of the mind, you would say that it is possible to intuit (in terms of categories that you have experienced before) outer knowledge. This latter view is the old Indian knowledge paradigm. If it were generally accepted it would mean an evolution in science much greater than the revolution of modern physics.

It is also well-known that the Vedic or Puranic idea of the age of the universe is some 8 billion years, which is of the order of magnitude of what has been estimated by modern astrophysicists. Is this also a mere coincidence?

Again, either a coincidence, or the rishis were capable of supernormal wisdom. Don't forget that the Indian texts also speak about things that no other civilization thought of until this century. I am speaking of air and space travel, embryo transplantation, multiple births from the same embryo, weapons of mass destruction (all in the Mahabharata), travel through domains where time is slowed, other galaxies and universes, potentials very much like quantum potential (Puranas). If nothing else, we must salute the rishis for the most astonishing and uncanny imagination.

You also suggest that that the modern computer science term for context-free languages, the Backus-Naur Form, should more accurately be called the Panini-Backus Form, since Sanskrit grammarian Panini invented the notion of completely and unambiguously defined grammars (and devised one such for Sanskrit) as early as about 500 BCE.

Oh yes, all this is well established and well known, as also the Indian development of mathematical logic.

How has the reaction been in scholarly circles to some of these discoveries and conjectures of yours, which do turn conventional wisdom on its head? In India, you are aware, some of your views would have you branded as "reactionary", "Hindu fundamentalist", etc.

My work has been received most enthusiastically in scholarly circles both in the West and India. I have written several scores of scholarly articles and reviews and am in the process of writing major essays for leading encyclopaedias. School texts in California and other American states have been rewritten. Likewise, new college texts in the US speak of these new findings. We are talking here of hard scientific facts, they can neither be "fundamentalist" nor "reactionary". But I am aware that some ignorant ideologues in India may actually pin pejorative labels on this work. This only creates opportunities to bring facts to the attention of such people. I am ever hopeful of converting more and more people!

How has your work in the history of science affected your research in computing science?

Surprisingly, it has strengthened my technical work. It has provided me a focus and a perspective. It has also given me the courage to work on fundamental problems.

What do you attribute this to? Is this because it is a matter of self- image? Indians have always been self-effacing, and perhaps not believing in themselves much?

Self-image is a central factor in our development. We eventually become what we want to become. We need faith in ourselves. That is why a cultural focus is so crucial. I think our current self- effacement is a result of the negative stereotyping we have experienced for generations. Our school books talk about Socrates, Plato and Aristotle -- and rightly so -- but they don't mention Yajnavalkya, Panini and Patanjali, which is a grave omission. Our grand boulevards in Delhi and other cities are named after Copernicus, Kepler and Newton, but there are no memorials to Aryabhata, Bhaskara, Madhava and Nilakantha!

Is self-image, then, sufficient reason for us to explore the past?

It could be a sufficient reason for some. For others, it is one of the many impulses that guides them in their personal journeys.

Is there something that your Web readers can do to take some of this research forward? Any references or other suggestions?

There is so much to be done to spread the knowledge of Indian history. For at least 50 years, Indian intellectual life was stifled by a Stalinist attitude. And before that, for two centuries, colonialist historians appropriated Indian past for their own purposes. What they left for us was a mutilated version of our past. We are barely emerging from that hell. We need more people to actively carry forward this research. We also need institutions -- private foundations, perhaps -- that ensure that our historiography will remain vital, critical and devoted to truth.

Any messages from you for your diasporic readers?

Pay attention to Indian and world history, there is much to be learned from the past. Also go to the springwells of Indian tradition, you'll find great treasure. Indian ideas provided central themes to the American transcendentalists in the early 19th century which led to American culture as we know it. I believe even more vital Indian ideas will transform world culture in the coming decades, and if you choose to be the interpreters of these ideas to the modern world you would have participated in the most wondrous drama of our times!

Vedic Croatia

Kaivalyapati das

There is a lot of evidence here in Croatia. I met one very famous academic Kujundjic and he showed me his book in which he gives different proofs that Croatians came originally from Iran (Aryan). I will not write about that I just put this to make connections with my following descriptions:

1. When old Croatians came on the Adriatic coast they have sikhas on their heads. This I found on one painting of a famous Croatian painter from last century.

2. The national symbol of Croatia is red and white chess fields. interesting I saw on Navadvip mandala parikrama Bengali painting the walls of houses with colors in the form of chess fields (I have photo). On the national symbol there is also lion with three head's like on the one rupee coin.

3. Sanskrit word hriyate means 'passes away', in Croatian language we are writing Hrvatska for Croatia (Hrvat for Croat). Possibly because they passed away from Iran. They where known like Sun warriors because they worship Svanimira (Surya).

4. They where cruelly killed and forced by Christians to accept christianity. Before they worshiped demigods.

Brahma-Svetovid ( one who sees in all directions)
Surya-Svanimir (means rising of the sun)
Varuna-Vodan
Indra-Ilija

I lost my long list with all names.

3.There are legend about beautiful girls called Vilas (apsaras). The legend said that they are not from this planet earth but from heaven. They are coming regularly on one mountain, Velebit. Many people saw them, talked with them, even mixing with them. They where sometimes good or bad. There are famous Croatian song about them: "Oj, ti Vilo, Vilo Velebita ti naseg roda diko"... (Oh,you vila-apsara, apsara from mountain Velebit, you are the gift of our nation).

4. The marriage ceremony was same like in Krishna book (Vasudeva and Devaki) as now.

5. Language has many words same or similar like sanskrit: Ana-grain, tadiya-tulasi leaves, mati or mama for mother, tata-father, jedan-eka, dva-dva, tri-tri, chetiri-catur, pet-pancha... deset-dasha, tama-tama, baba roga-bhava roga (material disease), udariti (to beat somebody)-uddharet, Eva-eva, Tada-tada, Svi-Sarve, Ovu-etam, Tvoj-tava, ca-ca, veliki ratnik-maha-ratha, ta-tat, svuda-sarvesu, vibha-vantah, shkoljka-sankham, jaram-yukte, sjedeci-sthitau etc... Almost in every Bhagavad Gita sloka I find 1-3 same or similar words. There is more evidence but in this moment I cannot remember more then this.

Vedic Macedonia

Vrin Parker

In 1977, a royal tomb was found at Vergina, near Saloniaca, in Macedonia, Greece. All the evidence proves it to be the tomb of King Philip, the father of Alexander the Great. However, Western scholars were puzzled because of the many artifacts, within the tomb of an obvious Indian/Vedic nature. Because of these artifacts, some experts dated the tomb to a time after Alexander's. This theory is no longer being accepted.

In Michael Wood's series, In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great, he presents 2 sculpted portraits of Alexander and Philip. Archeologists accept these sculpted portraits of Alexander as the only ones made during his lifetime. Philip's portrait is also recognized as being made in his lifetime.

Where were these portraits found? They were found in the Macedonian tomb, discovered in 1977, thus confirming that the tomb is definitely from before Alexander's march to Asia.

King Philip of Macedonia

Because the tomb is full of Vedic/Indian style artifacts, this is solid proof that Greek culture had a strong connection to India, long before Alexander's time. The tomb in question has also been accepted as the tomb of King Philip on the series War and Civilization. The body interned in the tomb, fits every ancient description of King Philip. Without a doubt, it is the tomb of King Philip.

The question is, "Why does King Philip's tomb have so many Indian influences? How is it possible if the Greek and Indian cultures had no direct contact until Alexander's Asian campaigns?"

The answer is simple. Because Greek culture is an offshoot of Vedic culture, it is only logical that there would be strong Indian influences in Greek art, religion and culture. The tomb of King Philip is also more than proof of Greece's vedic past.

It is also a smoking gun exposing the extreme prejudice involved in the cover up of the world's ancient vedic heritage. Though western scholars are now admitting the tomb to be Philip's, they are staying mute about the evidences proving Greece's Vedic heritage. On one hand, western academics are using these tomb artifacts to promote various theories, and on the other hand, they are ignoring the artifacts that prove their theories wrong. Because there is no doubt about the Vedic artifacts found in this one case, one wonders as to how much other evidence is out there that has been ignored and perhaps even destroyed. It is obvious that the current mainstream academic community, has made it's mind about world history. Any evidence that contradicts their theories, is not accepted. rather than change their pet theories, these so-called scholars are willing to change the historic record and force it to conform to their views. This is the great perversion of truth that is being perpetrated on the world at large. It is even more ironic that this is being done by the very people, i.e. the historians, who have a duty to research and present a true and accurate record of the world's ancient past.

Vedic evidence in Russia

Madana-mohana das

A couple of weeks ago one devotee from Odessa (Southern Russian city) told me he personally saw in a museum over there three small dolls looking EXACTLY like Lord Jagannatha, Baladeva and Subhadra. They were digged from a barrow around 1000 year old and were found on human remains buried there, placed on a neck. The figures were ordered on the neck exactly in the same sequence - first yellowish Lord Balarama, than white Subhadra, than blackish Jagannath. They were made of metal and covered with enamel. Interesting enough, the deities were two-faced - there were exactly the same appearances of their faces at their flip sides. The museum attandants had not a clue as to who the images were. The devotee promised to make pictures of them.

synergy777

23-09-2007, 05:44 PM

http://irishoriginsofcivilization.com/appendices/appendix8.html

STAR

A very important term in the ancient world. The word, and the symbol of the star, was used as a title to distinguish high level adepts and initiates of "Judaic" cults and sects. The Queen of Sheba, for instance, meant "Queen of the Star." The so-called "Star of David," is really the star of the Hyksos Dynasty of kings in Egypt, that history knows as the Israelites

hyskos are indians. it called the shatkona, shiva/shakti united, like yin/yang.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefshexagram.htm

hexagram is a six pointed star composed of two overlapped triangles, found in use by a number of faiths and cultures. Outside of the cross and the swastika, the hexagram is one of the oldest and most universal spiritual symbols.

It is associated with the Biblical Solomon, known as the Star of David in the Jewish religion.

The Seal of Solomon

In Ritual Magick, the hexagon is called the Seal of Solomon, and represents Divine Union, being composed of a female, watery triangle, and a male, fiery triangle. The traditional elemental triangles of earth, air, water, and fire are derived from the seal.

When the points of a hexagram are connected, a hexagon is formed. Kabbalistically, the hexagram represents the Sefirah Tifaret, perfection.

Hindu Shatkona

In the Hindu religion, the hexagram is called the Shatkona, and is equivalent to the symbolism in ritual magick. The Shatkona is the combination of the Shiva kona (trikona, triangle), the symbol of the God Shiva, representing the element of fire, and the Shakti kona, representing the element of water. Together, they represent the union of male and female, and the heart chakra.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsmagen.htm

Star of David (Magen David, Shield of David)

The Star of David is the primary modern emblem of the Jewish religion. How it came to be such is a matter of some debate. Legend has it that the emblem was used by the Biblical King David (hence the name 'Magen David,' or shield of David).

In reality, it was not associated specifically with the faith until the middle ages, when it began to appear on flags, tombstones, and synagogue decorations. It is probably not coincidental that the symbol was important to the flourishing kabbalistic tradition of the same time period. Kabbalistically, the hexagram symbolizes the six directions of space, the divine union of male and female energy, and the four elements.

The Star of David is also important in the Rastafarian and Messianic Christian religions. A Rastafarian version

http://log24.com/blog/0305.html

The Eightfold Way and Solomon's Seal

Introduction to Yantra

by Horia Cristescu and
Dan Bozaru

The Triangle (TRIKONA)

The triangle (TRIKONA) is the symbol of SHAKTI , the feminine energy or aspect of Creation. The triangle pointing down represents the YONI , the feminine sexual organ and the symbol of the supreme source of the Universe, and when the triangle is pointing upwards it signifies intense spiritual aspiration, the sublimation of one's nature into the most subtle planes and the element of fire (AGNI TATTVA). The fire is always oriented upwards, thus the correlation with the upward triangle - SHIVA KONA. On the other hand, the downward pointing triangle signifies the element of water which always tends to flown and occupy the lowest possible position. This triangle is known as SHAKTI KONA.

The intersection of two geometric forms (lines, triangles, circles, etc.) represents forces that are even more intense than those generated by the simple forms. Such an interpenetration indicates a high level in the dynamic interaction of the correspondent energies. The empty spaces generated by such combinations are described as very efficient operational fields of the forces emanating from the central point of the YANTRA. That is why we can very often encounter representations of MANTRAS in such spaces. YANTRA and MANTRA are complementary aspects of SHIVA and their use together is much more efficient than the use of one alone.

The Six Points Star (SHATKONA)

A typical combination often found in the graphical structure of a YANTRA is the superposition of two triangles, one pointing upwards and the other downwards, forming a star with six points (SHATKONA), also known as David's Star. This form symbolically represents the union of PURUSHA and PRAKRITI or SHIVA-SHAKTI, without which there could be no Creation.

TRIKONA

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1164/030525trikonalj1.jpg

SHATKONA

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3427/030525shatkonasr3.jpg

lostinstrangeworld

23-09-2007, 05:56 PM

Wouldn't it be great to just tap into the Akashic Records somehow and watch the whole history of us play back upon a mirage!!

Great stuff.

Question.
Do you think Abraham was being used by negative ET's?

synergy777

23-09-2007, 06:00 PM

abraham and sarah could have been symbolic intepretations of brahma and sarawasti.

the link in my sig inneri. is a vedic focussed forum, its has many things in more organised order than i have doen on here. its vedic stuff only though.

snoopsnuffleopagus

23-09-2007, 06:09 PM

Cordial Felicitations:

Lostinstrangeworld:.......No....... According to the Book of Yahweh(i am aware of sumerian and kabbalistic texts, i do not consider Yahweh a negative entity), Abraham was 'under the Tutelege' of King Melchizedek of Yeru-Salem. Abraham also 'Tithed' King Melchizedek, so Melchizedek is a Priest of Yahweh. A Priestly King of the City of Peace.

Your understanding of Father Yahweh is the answer to your query.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

phildee3

23-09-2007, 06:16 PM

Wouldn't it be great to just tap into the Akashic Records somehow

One does not "tap in" to the Akashic Record, my friend.
One learns how to aquire the keys.

synergy777

23-09-2007, 06:17 PM

how does one acquire the keys? please help.

lostinstrangeworld

23-09-2007, 06:46 PM

I meant "tune in".
I guess that would be the key. It just takes practice- when one has the time to focus

Synergy,
Abraham...Brahma....same thing....

You've shown how these are all connected. Great work. Now I want to know whether David was right about what he wrote in The Robots Rebellion, which I haven't finished reading. Because I question everything. However, there are some things I do know and that is this:

ANIMAL SACRIFICE COMES FROM NO GOD OF PURE LOVE.

Other people don't have to believe what I believe. I am just expressing my own feelings and I hope that doesn't cause an argument- in which I want no involvement.

The way I see it, no one person has all of the truth, though we all have some of the truth- like parts of one Giant Jigsaw.

That we are all connected- humans, animals, nature- is something I feel very strongly is true.
I also believe that the title of the book is right. Infinite Love is the only truth. That is, the only truth that really matters.

lostinstrangeworld

23-09-2007, 06:52 PM

Synergy, this research is fantastic. It would be great just to stand on a mountain and shout to the world: We are all connected! All the appearances of division are just an illusion! None of it matters!

"Come together- Right now, over me!"

:D

synergy777

23-09-2007, 07:06 PM

animal sacrifice is same as human sacrifice, blood/spiritual energy. no source requires energy, as he/she is the energy. only fallen/demons require energy, energy parasites, imposter gods etc.

like marley said, one love.

phildee3

24-09-2007, 09:55 AM

how does one acquire the keys? please help.

This is a question to ask of yourself.
There are as many paths as there are travellers.
You are the only one who can say which tools are useful to you:
Meditation, mantra chanting, pigrimage, taking ayuasca with an Amazonian shaman, join a monastic order, read "How to Know Higher Worlds" by Rudolf Steiner...
Or simply make personal vows and commitments to oneself (ie. the cosmos) to live one's life with complete honesty and intgrity and keep them under all circumstances. Discipline is an important key.

Avoid mobile phones, microwaves and microwaved food, artificial sweeteners and food colorings, flouride, HAARP and tetra masts, television.

Or you could totally renounce materialism and follow a guru;
(I could send you a bank account number for your funds transfer ;))

lostinstrangeworld

24-09-2007, 04:08 PM

like marley said, one love.

http://images.meez.com/user05/04/04/04/040404_10027319616.gif (http://www.meez.com/listenstotrees)

fullfathomfive

24-09-2007, 06:11 PM

Was Melchizedek an individual or a job title?

phildee3

24-09-2007, 06:24 PM

Was Melchizedek an individual or a job title?

Melchizedek is a deity, - King of the Heavenly Jerusalem.
Never incarnated (imo), though several have taken his name.

fullfathomfive

24-09-2007, 07:43 PM

Was Melchizedek a term for a priest of Zedek (Jupiter)?

phildee3

24-09-2007, 09:46 PM

Was Melchizedek a term for a priest of Zedek (Jupiter)?

I don't think so.
Zedek is the earthly city of Jerusalem, which is associated with Jupiter.

Melchizadek is identical with the archangel Michael who is associated with Saturn and, as such, is the great Judge.
He is both king (or prince) and high priest of the heavenly Jerusalem.
The two positions being necessarily seperate on earth because satan is the "prince of this world."
A priest in the "order of Melchizadek" is ordained directly by the (holy) spirit (unrecognised by institutionalised orders) and is therefore unlikely to be a priest of Zedek. He would, more likely, be a poor, wandering priest I would think; - eschewed by the establishment.

synergy777

28-09-2007, 03:19 PM

according to the great jewish historian flavius josephus, jews are from india

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08522a.htm

Flavius Josephus
Jewish historian, born A.D. 37, at Jerusalem; died about 101. He belonged to a distinguished priestly family, whose paternal ancestors he himself traces back five generations; his mother's family claimed descent from the Machabeans. He received a good education, and association with distinguished scholars developed his intellectual gifts, more especially his memory and power of judgment. He also made himself fully acquainted with and tried the leading politico-religious Jewish parties of his age -- the Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees.

Impressed by the outward importance of the Pharisees and hoping to secure through them a position of influence, he attached himself to their party at the age of nineteen, although he shared neither their religious nor political views. He went to Rome in the year 64 with the object of procuring from Nero the release of some imprisoned Jewish priests, who were friends of his. He succeeded in winning the favour of Poppæa Sabina, the emperor's consort, and through her influence gained his cause. But he was dazzled by the brilliant court life in the metropolis of the world, that he became ever more estranged from the spirit of strict Judaism, considering its struggle against paganism as useless. After his return to Jerusalem, the great Jewish revolt broke out in the year 66. Like most of the aristocratic Jews, Josephus at first discountenanced the rebellion of his countrymen, goaded into activity by their enslaved condition and outraged religious sentiments; when, however, fortune seemed to favour the insurgents, Josephus like the rest of the priestly nobility joined them, and was chosen by the Sanhedrin at Jerusalem to be commander-in-chief in Galilee. As such he established in every city throughout the country a council of judges, the members of which were recruited from those who shared his political views. He guided the diplomatic negotiations as well as the military enterprises with prudence and astuteness. In the beginning the Jews were successful, but later when the Roman General Vespasian advanced with the main army from Antioch to Galilee, burning and murdering, the insurgents either fled or sought shelter in their fortresses. For six weeks Josephus and the boldest spirits among the insurgents defended themselves in the almost impregnable fortress of Jotapata. In the summer of 67, the garrison being now exhausted from lack of water and other necessaries, the Romans stormed the citadel; most of the patriots were put to the sword, but Josephus escaped the massacre by hiding in an inaccessible cistern, and emerged only after receiving an assurance that his life would be spared. Brought before the victorious general, he sought with great shrewness to ingratiate himself with Vespasian, foretelling his elevation, as well as that of his son Titus, to the imperial dignity. Vespasian, however, kept him as a prisoner, and it was only in the year 69, after he had actually become emperor, that he restored to Josephus his liberty.

As a freedman of Vespasian, Josephus assumed in accordance with the Roman custom the former's family name of Flavianus. He accompanied the emperor as far as Egypt, when the latter had handled over to his son the prosecution of the Jewish War, but then joined the retinue of Titus, and was an eyewitness of the destruction of the Holy City and her Temple. At his personal risk he had tried to persuade the Jews to surrender. After the fall of the city he went to Rome with Titus, and took part in the latter's triumph. But these scenes did not trouble Josphus's sense of national honour; on the contrary, he accepted the privilege of Roman citizenship in recognition of his services, and was granted a yearly stipend and also lands in Judea. The succeeding emperors, Titus and his cruel brother Domitian, also showed themselves kindly disposed towards Josephus, and conferred on him many marks of distinction. At court he was allowed to devote himself unmolested to his literary work until his death, which occurred in the reign of Trajan (probably in 101). In his life, as in his writings, he pursued a policy midway between Jewish and pagan culture, for which he was accused by his Jewish countrymen of being unprincipled and hypocritical. His works were written in elegant Greek, to influence the educated class of his time, and free them from various prejudices against Judaism.

The first work of Josephus was the "Jewish War" (Peri tou Ioudaikou polemou) in seven books. This is mainly based on his memoranda made during the war of independence (66-73), on the memoirs of Vespasian, and on letters of King Agrippa. While his story of warlike events is reliable, the account of his own doings is strongly tinctured with foolish self-adulation. This work furnishes the historical background for numerous historical romances, among those of modern times "Lucius Flavius" by J. Spillmann, S.J., and "The End of Juda" by Anton de Waal.

Josephus's second work, the "Jewish Antiquities" (Ioudaike Archaiologia), contains in twenty books the whole history of the Jews from the Creation to the outbreak of the revolt in A.D. 66. Books I-XI are based on the text of the Septuagint, though at times he also repeats traditional explanations current among the Jews in later times. He also quotes numerous passages from Greek authors whose writings are now lost. On the other hand he made allowance for the tastes of his Gentile contemporaries by arbitrary omissions as well as by the free embellishment of certain scenes. Books XII-XX, in which he speaks of the times preceding the coming of Christ and the foundation of Christianity, are our only sources for many historical events. In these the value of the statements is enhanced by the insertion of dates which are otherwise wanting, and by the citation of authentic documents which confirm and supplement the Biblical narrative. The story of Herod the Great is contained in books XV-XVII. Book XVIII contains in chapter iii the celebrated passage in which mention is made of the Redeemer in the following words:

About this time lived Jesus, a man full of wisdom, if indeed one may call Him a man. For He was the doer of incredible things, and the teacher of such as gladly received the truth. He thus attracted to Himself many Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. On the accusation of the leading men of our people, Pilate condemned Him to death upon the cross; nevertheless those who had previously loved Him still remained faithful to Him. For on the third day He again appeared to them living, just as, in addition to a thousand other marvellous things, prophets sent by God had foretold. And to the present day the race of those who call themselves Christians after Him has not ceased.
Attempts have been made to refute the objections brought against this passage both for internal and external reasons, but the difficulty has not been definitively settled. The passage seems to suffer from repeated interpolations. The fact that the "Antiquities" testifies to the truth of Divine Revelation among the Jews as among the Christians, and confirms the historical facts related in the Bible by the incontrovertible testimony of pagan authors, renders this work of Josephus of extreme value for the history of the chosen people. The accounts which he gives of the rise and mutual relations of the different Jewish sects, which are so important in the history and sufferings of the Saviour; his information regarding the corruption of the ancient Jewish customs and institutions; his statement concerning the internal conflicts of the Jews, and lastly his account of the last war with the Romans, which put an end to the national independence of the Jews, are of prime importance as historical sources.

In his "Autobiography" (phlaouiou Iosepou bios), written A.D. 90, Josephus seeks, not without attempts at self-glorification, to justify his position at the beginning of the Jewish rising. In plan and language the book is probably influenced by the writings of Nicholas of Damascus, which Josephus had also used in the "Antiquities". His work entitled "Against Apion" (Kata Apionos), divided in two books, is a defence of the great antiquity of the Jews and a refutation of the charges which had been brought against them by the grammarian Apion of Alexandria on the occasion of an embassy to the Emperor Caligula.

The early Christians were zealous readers of Josephus's "History of the Jews", and the Fathers of the Church, such as Jerome and Ambrose, as well as the early ecclesiastical historians like Eusebius, are fond of quoting him in their works. St. Chrysostom calls him a useful expounder of the historical books of the Old Testament. The works of Josephus were translated into Latin at an early date. After the art of printing had been discovered, they were circulated in all languages. The first German translation was edited by the Strasburg Reformer Kaspar Hedio, in 1531, and a French translation was issued by Burgoing in Lyons in 1558. Among the best-known translations in English is that by Whiston (London, 1737), revised by Shilleto (5 vols., London, 1888-9). In the middle of the nineteenth century the interest in the "Jewish Antiquities" was revived by a translation which the Society of St. Charles Borromeo induced Professor Konrad Martin, afterwards Bishop of Paderborn, to undertake in collaboration with Franz Kaulen (1st ed., Cologne, 1852-3; 2nd and 3rd ed. by Kaulen, 1883 and 1892). The test of Josephus's works has been published by Dindorf in Greek and Latin (2 vols., Paris, 1845-47) and Bekker (6 vols., Leipzig, 1855-6). There are critical editions by Naber, (Leipzig, 1888-96) and Niese (7 vols., Berlin, 1887-95; text only, 6 vols., Berlin, 1888-95).

NEW: Get the full contents of New Advent
(Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers,
Summa, Bible and more) on CD-ROM

Publication information
Written by Karl Hoeber. Transcribed by Stephen W. Shackelford. In Memory of my father, Carl W. Shackelford
The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII. Published 1910. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

Bibliography
Consult SCHÜRER in Realencycl. für prot. Theol., s. v.; MÜLLER, Christus bei Flavius Josephus; EDERSHEIM in Dict. Christ. Biog., s.v. For fuller bibliography see SCHÜRER, Gesch. des jud. Volkes im Zeitalter Jesu Christi, I (3rd ed., Leipzig, 1901), 98-106.

synergy777

10-10-2007, 07:38 PM

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/mtsarion.html

Michael is also the grandson of Tara Singh, the renowned philosopher, author and teacher of the theosophic tome A Course in Miracles. He was the intimate friend of J. Krishnamurti (the World Teacher), Swiss architect Le Corbusier, Keith Critchlow, Alan Chadwick, Eleanor Roosevelt and President Nehru. He was entrusted, by the latter, with India’s 5-year plan of restoration after British withdrawal. Tara Singh was also played a key role in the Rev. Paul Solomon’s Fellowship of Inner Light, one of the first true American mystery schools. He now heads the Foundation for Life Action in Los Angeles

The old English spelling of King is "Cing" As in ancient Sanskrit appellation King, Cing, Singh, Simha or Simba (Swahili) for lion meaning powerful chief or leader.

The English language, full of such descendants perceived directly in relation to its sister dialects, Hindi and Bengali is no further remote from Sanskrit. Apparently Sanskrit similarly supplies integral structure and identifying roots of English.

now craigs main man tsarion is a sikh/singh brother of mine, so what are his views on vedic/celtic, race mixing now?

edit

10-10-2007, 07:43 PM

http://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gif The old English spelling of King is "Cing" As in ancient Sanskrit appellation King, Cing, Singh, Simha or Simba (Swahili) for lion meaning powerful chief or leader.

..?

http://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gifhttp://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gif
http://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gifhttp://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gif
http://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gifhttp://www.telugupeople.com/astrology/images/Simha.gif

synergy777

11-10-2007, 12:36 AM

so is the "light of the guru" that "heals/healer/jah-son" "lion", from a place named after "black/naga kings" from the family name of "shiva" ancestors, lol

its ego fuckery when your name is full of coincidence.

octopusrex

05-12-2007, 04:21 AM

Donno.. I'm far from convinced of this article.. But send it here:

www.vrinda.org

and see what they say... Lots o' folks to study this in depth.

zero1

05-12-2007, 01:53 PM

Tara means "Star" and was the original name of the Irish solar goddess. Her worship was transmitted to India and Tibet in the 2nd Millenium BCE and today she is venerated as "Buddha Tara" by the Mahayana, who comes in various shades (Green Tara, White Tara etc).

Thus Tara was the seat of the Irish High King, whose priestly caste was the Druids.

Beneath the Hill of Tara here in Ireland, I believe, lies buried the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant.

Yet they're building a damn motorway over it...

octopusrex

05-12-2007, 04:13 PM

In Aryan studies, the real question is: which came first, the Chicken or the Egg.

Is Thor = Indra?
Is Tara = Radha?

Aryans do give folks a lot of trouble with their warlike nature. Ever since they moved outta Indus Valley, they've been a warrin' with the rest of us for land and power in various shapes.

But if Aryans are really intelligent Aryans, they will study their origins and realize they are INDIAN!

Then, they will figure out that their best job is to sit under some tree and MEDITATE...

Instead of trying to rule the world the way they always do.

zero1

05-12-2007, 04:54 PM

phildee3

05-12-2007, 06:20 PM

Beneath the Hill of Tara here in Ireland, I believe, lies buried the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant.

Yet they're building a damn motorway over it...

The British Israelites started the bizarre belief that the Ark was buried at Tara, - and proceded to ruthlessly demolish it.
The motorway is a couple of miles away.

Not that I condone the motorway - I don't. It is destroying other, very important, related sites.
But the unfounded belief in the ark, and the efforts to recover it, are destructive to Tara itself.

zero1

05-12-2007, 06:51 PM

The British Israelites started the bizarre belief that the Ark was buried at Tara, - and proceded to ruthlessly demolish it.
The motorway is a couple of miles away.

Not that I condone the motorway - I don't. It is destroying other, very important, related sites.
But the unfounded belief in the ark, and the efforts to recover it, are destructive to Tara itself.

Not so sure you're right, but your position certainly seems to cover it...

phildee3

05-12-2007, 07:41 PM

Not so sure you're right

about...?

zero1

05-12-2007, 08:43 PM

about...?

The "British Israelis" instigating the rumour about the Ark in Eire.

phildee3

05-12-2007, 10:24 PM

The "British Israelis" instigating the rumour about the Ark in Eire.

They claim ancient Irish sources for the information, which I haven't seen, -
but if it's only half as tenuous as the many "truths" of theirs that I have seen the sources of (particularly the work of John Goodchild) then I would definately say that they "instigated" it.
If anyone should come across these "sources" I would certainly like to see them (but not at the prices they charge!).

zero1

05-12-2007, 10:34 PM

They claim ancient Irish sources for the information, which I haven't seen, -
but if it's only half as tenuous as the many "truths" of theirs that I have seen the sources of (particularly the work of John Goodchild) then I would definately say that they "instigated" it.
If anyone should come across these "sources" I would certainly like to see them (but not at the prices they charge!).

Not certain what to make of this. I've never heard of John Goodchild (sounds like a codename) but I'll check him out.

It is true that there are many links between the British and Jewry, but I've never nailed down one perspective those who promote this present in a unified manner.

Hmm...

IN any case, thank you for your reply. :)

snoopsnuffleopagus

06-12-2007, 08:06 AM

Cordial Felicitations:

Two Points:

1: The Royal Crest of Britain has a Rampant Lion & Rampant Unicorn.

These were the Symbols of the Two Hebrew Nations; Yahdah (Judea),Rampant Lion; Israyl, Rampant Unicorn.

2: A Hebrew Princess and her Retinue journeyed to Britain, maybe 3,000 years ago. The Torah would have been their Codex of Law.

The Ark of the Covenant:

1: The Seat of Yahweh

2: The Two Cherubim with outstretched wings: To hold the Shawl of Yahweh, thus upholding Yahwehs Laws.

3: The Contents of the Ark: The Torah; 613 Laws, Judgements & Statutes.

Wherever the Ark is, it's HEAVY.

The Philistines had captured the Ark, and held it briefly, but it was bringing curses upon them and their Cities, so they sent it back.

They used Two Milk Cows, that have never been yoked, put the Ark on a Trailer and sent the Cows off. No human accompanied them.

The Milk Cows walked directly to the Great Stone of Abel (first Righteous Priest), where Yahweh had a Secret Cadre of Priests who preserved His work. I Samuyl Chapter 6.

(Syn: this is where I believe Yahshua studied during those years, not egypt). II Samuyl 20:18 Then she spoke saying; They used to speak long ago, saying: To receive an answer, ask at Abel; and that would settle a matter.

I think the Ark would be there, in Israel, around Ibellin.

Kind Regards: Snoopsnuffleopagus

phildee3

06-12-2007, 09:31 AM

A Hebrew Princess and her Retinue journeyed to Britain, maybe 3,000 years ago.

...according to The Book of Tephi, written by John Goodchild.

Irish mythology, in the ancient manuscripts, is written as if it were an historical record.

The BIs take this literally (is this not the definition of fundamentalism?).

Goodchild did not (although the BIs claim him as a founder of their movement and writer of history).

He wrote the Book of Tephi as a continuation of the mythology.

octopusrex

09-12-2007, 05:31 PM

Some vedantic specialists consider Christ a re-encarnation of Krsna.

Ol' Snakey-feathered guy could be in the mix there, somewhere.

phildee3

09-12-2007, 08:13 PM

Some vedantic specialists consider Christ a re-encarnation of Krsna.

Or more accurately, Krsna was an incarnation of Christ(os) - who has no beginning or end.

(Jesus was, perhaps, a reincarnation of Lord Krsna).

Just take a look at the two words; Christ / Krsna.
Two linguistic variants of the same being...

octopusrex

14-12-2007, 03:47 AM

The key is the message.

phildee3

14-12-2007, 08:57 AM

The key is the message.

The message is the key.

octopusrex

14-12-2007, 02:59 PM

Well... yes ahhh.. ehm..

synergy777

24-12-2007, 10:06 PM

if there is vedic clobal culture which all our cultures comes from, if the origin of jews is india as stated by flavius then we must see the connection.

the people who migrated from the black/caspian seas over land and rivers such as danube/volga became europeans. then the other routes were through iran/middle east. these two split into the north africa/iberia-spain/british isles-eire/arya and the anatolia/turkey to germany. thus showing that celts/anglo saxons etc are all the same and have origins in the east.

there is no other culture with the coverage or data connecting all of us on this planet.

i am an adherent of the veic culture, from africa, asia, australia and europe, even up to the artic, and ancient times of atlantis/lemuria. not because of some indian pride but to come to a stage where i can see the world as one culture, one people, which in my mind is what we are.

from the african naga kings, who had devenaghi script which gave birth to sanskrit, from the vedic culture which went to russia, scandanavia, europe, greece, italy. the romany migrations, the hyksos, the jews.

the conflict of the linga/phallic/obelisk/mithras-bull sacrifice cult against the brahma/one god. this conflict is what we have today, you can ignore but you cannot deny it.

1 people, 1 source/god, 1 love.

octopusrex

25-12-2007, 12:50 AM

Bingo, Syngergy.

Brahma vs. Visnu/Siva.

Tough fight if you ask me. No matter who'se side yer on.

Of course, if you know yer vedas, ye know the outcome already!

synergy777

28-12-2007, 06:53 PM

Date: 28 Dec 2007, 03:48

'Irish Times
Friday, December 28, 2007

TaraWatch, the group campaigning against the construction of the M3
motorway close to the Hill of Tara in Co Meath, has said it intends to
go ahead with international protests planned for January 8th, writes
Tim O'Brien.

The group was responding to an Irish Times report that the prehistoric
henge site at Lismullin was handed over to the contractor last week,
clearing the way for an immediate start to the road works.

In a statement yesterday TaraWatch said: "The NRA were not supposed to
hand over Lismullin until January 8th, but they have done it early to
facilitate demolition over the holidays, when nobody is paying
attention.

"We are going ahead with international protests planned for January
8th, and calling on our many supporters . . . to come out in support."

On the day of action demonstrations are planned for Stormont and the
Dáil as well as pickets at Irish embassies in New York, Chicago, San
Francisco and Los Angeles in the US.

Pickets are also being organised in Australia, while a large
demonstration is being planned for the Taoiseach's speech to the US
Congress, expected to occur early in 2008'

octo, when kalki comes , brahma will win.

phildee3

28-12-2007, 07:08 PM

the prehistoric
henge site at Lismullin was handed over to the contractor last week,
clearing the way for an immediate start to the road works.

In a statement yesterday TaraWatch said: "The NRA were not supposed to
hand over Lismullin until January 8th, but they have done it early to
facilitate demolition over the holidays, when nobody is paying
attention.

Bastards!
Fucking bastards!!!

Rally the troops.
Let 'em have it!!

synergy777

28-12-2007, 07:31 PM

i cannot belive such ancient sites get treated this way. this site of kings, the myth that surrouinds it is taken seriouly. hence the lia fail, the throne all moved away from it.

octopusrex

28-12-2007, 11:35 PM

You should see what they have done to MY home.

I don't much worry about it. I leave the Duendes take care of it.

phildee3

29-12-2007, 10:17 AM

You should see what they have done to MY home.

I don't much worry about it. I leave the Duendes take care of it.

The Duendes are some of the troops I was referring to;
along with the the elementals, the faeries, the sylphs, the saints, etc. etc...

Leaving it entirely to them is a cop out.
We can work with them in this struggle against this tragic, human stupidity and, in fact, we must if we are going to stop it.
Otherwise the motorway will be built and the Duendes will cause many deaths along that stretch.

We must work with them - now - and stop it!!

zero1

29-12-2007, 12:32 PM

octopusrex

29-12-2007, 04:53 PM

I always know to work for or with the Duendes, but you have to know when to bail out and leave the hard-work to them.

E.L.F. is not a joke. It's dangerous business.

phildee3

29-12-2007, 05:13 PM

I always know to work for or with the Duendes, but you have to know when to bail out and leave the hard-work to them.

E.L.F. is not a joke. It's dangerous business.

I don't take it as a joke.
I'm deadly serious.
I'm glad to hear that you are too.
All of us ELFs have work to do, and times to back off, - yes.
Those times, or the type of work to be done, are rarely the same for each of us.
Bless you, octo.
Stay on yer toes!

octopusrex

30-12-2007, 09:33 PM

Thanks Phil.

Santa central is alive and well.

phildee3

30-12-2007, 10:32 PM

Thanks Phil.

Santa central is alive and well.

Yeh, but the old man has retired; -
made redundant.
Material gifts are passe.

It's all up to us now - and his wee helpers...

synergy777

31-12-2007, 06:19 PM

The Tara-VigilCamp-CD-Projecticipants want to wish you all a very happy new year, may it be a good one for us and for Tara!!! :o)

Mind:
The situation on site is worse than before, people are badly needed to show their physical presence and support the protesters with their active participation. :oO
We will continue our shouts here: The camp-folks have all our admiration and thankfulness, and they deserve better than to be left to themselves there in the valley...

THE M3 MUST NOT BE; it's only the beginning of a development that will ruin the remains of early European culture and the nature of this island in no time.
Please, open your eyes and see what you can do:

Maybe you can manage to pay a visit to the Vigil-people at Rath Lugh and Lismullin, tonight, tomorrow, around New Year and show them that there are others who care and appreciate what they have been doing...
Everybody will be welcomed warmly!

HOW TO GET TO TARA?

CAR: Take the N3 and then turn left at the Tara signpost

BUS: Take either the Navan, Kells or Cavan bus which leave from Busarus. Ask to get off afterTARA CROSS at the Lismullen bus stop and it is a short walk from there.

The Vigil camp is located near the car-park at the Hill of Tara, about 200 metres on the right and a little in from the road. There are sign posts from the car-park.

For further information: 0035386 175 8557
(Send a text and they will call you back).

HOW TO GET TO RATH LUGH?

CAR: Take the N3 through Dunshaughlin and turn right on cross roads "Ross Cross" before you get to "Tara Na Ri Pub", take the next right at cross roads, about 2km on the right at the second block of woods. You will see a small sign on the right hand side of the road saying "Welcome to Rathlugh".

BUS: Take the N3 and ask to get off at the Tara Na Re Pub, follow directions above.

For further information: 0035386 1537146

Go to www.tarapixie.net and find out how they celebrate New Year's Day - become part of it and experience how peaceful political engagement, environmentalism, historical awareness and unbreakable idealism go together well and can even gain power, if people unite their force.
It's up to you and to you only, which world you want for yourself and for your children...
Make your decision - no better chance than a new year, to start with new resolutions that make sense...

Happy 2008 to mankind and all creatures -

Nic and friends

myspace message from TARA-VigilCamp-CD

synergy777

26-01-2008, 08:23 PM

http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/3401/Lvol1.html

Lost Tribes Of Israel Study Maps
Volume I (The Pre-Exodus Flights)

Volume I examines the Zarahite reign in Egypt prior to the Exodus. The Zarahites were descended from the Tribe of Judah; the Egyptians called them Hyksos which means the "Shepherd Kings." Volume I also covers the flights of the Zarahites along with members of the Tribe of Dan to Greece, Troy, Spain, Britain, Ireland, etc. Particular attention is paid to the Hebrew voyages of Danaus, Cadmus, Chalcol, Darda, Brutus and Corineus, and the Danaans. Source material includes the ancient histories and legends of Egypt, Greece, Ireland, and Britain. The remarkable story of the Lost Tribes of Israel reveals clear connections to the most famous Grecian tales such as the Trojan War, and Jason and the Argonauts.

Volume I also contains a detailed history of Jacob's Pillar, which is a special rock that belongs to the Kings and Queens of Israel. The author tracks this rock from Jacob to Moses, and then from Palestine to Ireland and then on to Britian. The current monarch of the United Kingdom received her crown while sitting over this important stone, Jacob's Pillar. And according to Biblical prophecy Christ will one day receive his own kingdom along with this stone.

india-israel-eire-hill of tara!

synergy777

26-01-2008, 08:29 PM

no probz pri01, hope you enjoy them.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_11.htm

This extraordinary and controversial topic is packed with intrigue. It begins where others have ended. Laurence Gardner has been granted privileged access to European Sovereign and Nobel archives, along with favoured insight into Chivalric and Church repositories. He "proves" for the first time that there is a royal heritage of the Messiah in the West, and documents the systematic and continuing suppression of these records tracing the descent of the sacred lineage by regimes down the centuries.

This unique lecture gives a detailed genealogical account of the authentic line of succession of the "Blood Royal" from the sons of Jesus and his brother James down to the present day. It casts a penetrating new light on the Bible story, and onto the enigmatic figures of Joseph of Arimathea and Mary Magdalene, and on the real truth behind the Arthurian legends and the Holy Grail. There is also a fascinating history of the Knights Templars of Jerusalem.

Laurence Gardner, Prior of the Celtic Church’s Sacred Kindred of St Columba, is an internationally known sovereign and chivalric genealogist. Distinguished as the Chevalier Labhràn de Saint Germain, he is Presidential Attaché to the European Council of Princes - a constitutional advisory body established in 1946. He is formally attached to the Noble Household Guard of the Royal House of Stewart, founded at St German-en-Laye in 1692, and is the Jacobite Historiographer Royal.

Now let our quest begin, let us search for the "True" meaning of the Holy Grail. We will take you on a journey of discovery that will lead you to new paths of personal discovery.

other links

http://graal.co.uk/bloodlinelecture.html

http://www.greatdreams.com/drmgds.htm

The great solar eclipse on August 11, 1999, in my theory, connects with the symbolism of the "Royal Bloodline" of Jesus, as the legends say the "Grail," and/or son of Jesus was taken to Cornwall and on to Glastonbury . . . and became the bloodline of the Kings and Queens of England. Here's some sites about the subject:

The Hidden History of Jesus and the Holy Grail - Part 1 - Nexus Magazine

Lost Tribes Of Israel Study Maps - With Link to Each Volume

In Laurence Gardner's, "Bloodline of the Holy Grail," ("The Hidden History" site above is a lecture-review), on page 68, he says the tradition of the Royal Bloodline traces back to the Egyptian custom, where the Pharoah's simi-divine sister-bride used a substance made of Crocodile fat to anoint him. The word of "crocodile" in Egyptian was "messeh," which corresponds to the Hebrew, "Messiah - The Anointed One."

It is found at a later time in ancient Sumer - where Inanna (Ishtar) takes the shepard Dumuzi (Tammuz) as her bridegroom. Still later, this took the form Asherah and El Elohim in Canaan, then to Matronit and Jehovah.

Psalm 23 speaks of it as the Shepherd and the Bride - "Thou preparest a table before me . . . thou anointest my head with oil."

Strangely perhaps, it is through the females that the true dynastic inheritance was held through the bloodline. David attained his kingship by marrying Michal, the daughter of King Saul. In the biblical "Song of Solomon," the verses are about the love between a sovereign bridegroom and his bride. The potion used symbolically for the espousal was an ointment called "spikenard." Solomon, of course, was the son of King David.

notice the paralells between king arthur and yashuah/jesus

cornwall, glastonbury, the isle of man/avalon, i wonder if the st michael line is connected to this. also does eire/ayra have connections?

synergy777

26-01-2008, 08:34 PM

http://www.goroadachi.com/etemenanki/

While the 'Orange Gate 2008' article didn't go too much into the nature of the Jan. 20-24 'orange window', a stock market crash/panic was actually one of the few specific events we were projecting since November. Here's an excerpt from November 12, 2007 (the earliest of many STRUG posts on this subject):

...The most famous star in Perseus is Algol the 'Demon Star' (echoing 'Satan winds') with which Comet Holmes will unite around January 21, 2008. [...] Comet traditionally being an omen, this is a powerful 'sign in the sky'...

Now, as it happens this is not the first time that Comet Holmes had an inexplicable outburst/explosion. It had two such episodes back to back in November 1892 and January 1893. They were closely followed by the 'Panic of 1893' - a stock market crash on May 5 (astronomical Beltane cross-quarter day) followed by a US depression lasting several years. In light of what's happening in the financial world at this time, this is a pretty dark omen... [...] the Countdown Clock is ticking down to January 2008 (anchor date January 20/22).

http://www.goroadachi.com/etemenanki/deep_impact_january.htm

Pakistan assassination/elections, US presidential primaries/caucuses, Atlantis STS-122, pope, nuclear, Templar Resurrection, etc. - all part of the impact/revolution storyline - interact with other interconnected time codes in addition to...

synergy777

27-01-2008, 04:00 AM

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5696/onesourcedb6ve4kb3.jpg

blue

27-01-2008, 06:24 AM

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5696/onesourcedb6ve4kb3.jpg

GODS?????

optimus pigpot

27-01-2008, 07:35 AM

GODS?????

What crap. Just cartoons.

synergy777

27-01-2008, 05:20 PM

still, your avatar is a better cartoon bro, lol

just shows you the common source/unity, with those with eyes to see.

synergy777

28-02-2008, 11:38 AM

http://www.tarapixie.net/

myspace message from Irish~Rose

Date: 28 Feb 2008, 00:14

Subject: Activists !! We Need your Support !! Tara in Ireland.

lugh23

I..v been up on the Hill Of Rath Lugh near Tara in Ireland all week and things are comming to a head !!.. There..s been constact attack of bulldozers on the hill itself.. One of the girls has been arrested and more to come.. We are desperate and need as much support as possible !!.. Checkout the article on Indy Media Ireland !!.. Please come up and join the protest !!!.. Also Friday night 29th Feb " Rob Henderson " is playing in the roundhouse so come along.. Checkout last Mondays arrest and demo at http://www.tarapixie.net/ under videos.. It was very scarey as there was only 6 of us on site and they brought a paddy wagon which could have seen all of site behind bars !!.. We need your help, so please come and support us.. There..s plenty of places to stay onsite and a friendly atmosphere !!!

phone 00353861537146

synergy777

28-02-2008, 11:40 AM

http://www.tarapixie.net/

RATH LUGH CALLING:

The Rath Lugh Direct Action Camp is situated two and a half kilometres from the Hill of Tara, on the Front Line of the proposed M3 between Lismullen and Baronstown. We are a diverse and international group of activists working together in a non-hierarchal way with the aim of putting a stop to the proposed M3. Currently we are hoping to obtain Gaeltacht Status, as Irish is spoken and taught in the camp on a daily basis.

We participate in Non Violent Direct Action tactics in order to halt the ongoing destruction of the Tara complex. The camp works with an emphasis on the preservation of our heritage and our culture predating Christianity for future generations to appreciate and learn from. This involves blockading the key routes, hence stopping as much machinery and construction as possible on the sites.

As Rath Lugh is an outer defence post for the Hill of Tara, it is possible for us to keep a permanent vigil on the movement of vehicles and personnel working on various construction sites throughout the valley. We also maintain a constant presence on the Rath Lugh National Monument, which is currently under a temporary preservation order. We aim to see this significant monument permanently preserved in-line with the rest of the Tara Complex.

Our daily duties in the camp involve collecting firewood, water from the well, taking and processing footage and photos, cooking meals, washing, scouting the valley for machinery, finding ancient artifacts in the Gabhra River, and jumping in front of diggers, steamrollers, graders and earth movers.

In order to educate and promote the importance of sustainable development within the Tara Valley and through the wider world using energy efficient technologies, we have recently installed a number of wind turbines and solar panels with a pedal powered bicycle generator. This enables us to charge mobile phones, camera batteries and have constant access to internet with the use of IT facilities. Green technology allows us to create an alternative media platform further highlighting the ongoing destruction of the Valley to a world wide community of activists, concerned groups, governments, NGOs and individuals inside and outside of Ireland. www.tarapixie.net is updated every day from the Rath Lugh Woods.

We believe that the Irish Government are spreading misinformation regarding the issues of heritage and culture about the destruction of the Tara Complex. We are currently engaged in active awareness protests around the country. Groups are raising awareness of the Quarry Protest in Kildare and Meath, Pylon Protest, Hill of Allen (Roadstone are mining the hill and the Fianna training grounds), Shell to Sea, Rockall, Dunquinn and various anti incinerator groups. All have the common goal of halting the destruction of our heritage, environment and natural resources. In unity, our voice is heard, in solidarity, we are stronger and we will not rest until sustainable development is obtained.

Rath Lugh Direct Action Camp welcomes all friends of Tara. We need people urgently to halt the Valley's destruction. Everyone has a skill or talent they can lend to this protest. Bring wellies, raingear, sleeping bags, torch, lighter, plenty of warm clothing, and good spirits. The protest is only going to get stronger, we will continue to oppose the motorway until it is moved, so come to Rath Lugh as quickly as you can. WE NEED YOU ALL NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. Tara is calling, don't ignore the call.

Slan a Pixie ;)

086 1537 146

www.tarapixie.net

save the hill of tara, i had a dream of tara in 1999, its what got me into the esoetric/illuminati stuff, add your support.

ichi wa zen

28-02-2008, 05:47 PM

phildee3

28-02-2008, 07:45 PM

The Atlanteans brought their sunworship to India, Egypt, Ireland, Mesopotamia/Asia Minor and The Americas.

Its all the same sunworshi(t)p. Krsna = Jezus = Quetzalcoatl = Payetome = Osiris = Wotan = Enki = Obatala = Itzanma = Kukulcan = BLABLA ETC ETC ETC ETC.

Right on, -
and it's all good.
Sun = life, light, etc...
Take your clothes off, face the sun with arms outstretched like a flower and soak it up!!
Roll on summer!

octopusrex

29-02-2008, 05:48 PM

ichi wa zen

01-03-2008, 10:08 AM

Got a problem with dat?

Try asking the animals and people sacrificed in worship of that big yellow ball up there.

phildee3

01-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Try asking the animals and people sacrificed in worship of that big yellow ball up there.

Only a small proportion of sun worshippers did such things.

If they hadn't have done it in the name of the gods, they'd have done it in the name of nationalism, or some other -ism.

It's the bloodthirsty lizards in our midst that do it, not the -ism.

octopusrex

01-03-2008, 05:58 PM

Do you really think somebody who gives their heart to the Sun or Quetzalcoatl or KuKulKan will not be received fully by them?

Do you think your body is your soul?

synergy777

03-03-2008, 12:13 AM

if you understand real yashuah, you would be able to discern between empire/nicence creed and the real yashuah/jesus.

no offence but all these jokers who deny yashuah/jesus, need to fully research and come test me, any subject,

yashuah/jesus existed and he showed us the way before any modern day pariah.

yashuah/jesus is the man, who showed us the way, neo is based on yashuah.

optimus pigpot

03-03-2008, 02:54 AM

monkyies

03-03-2008, 08:59 AM

jesus is the son of god, krishna is god, what is this long thread for? jesus and krishna are so different theres no simmilarities.

their lives are similar because they both have the highest divine qualities which leads to similar types of manifestations in their lives.

http://www.gita-society.com/images/krishna-christ.jpg

synergy777

03-03-2008, 12:06 PM

see there are two jesus's, the one which is a fusion of man/teacher that lived and mystery/solar symbolism.

i believe the man existed, i do not believe the solar symbolism such as being born on the 25th/solar-sol invictus, i do not believe he walked on water/again solar symbolism.

i do not believe he was divinely conceived.

i believe yashuah to be a normal person like us, who aceheived enlightenment and developed his spiritual/mental powers, which is what the cult members like optimus think icke can do.

yashuah never said he was the only son of god, he said we are all the creators/fathers children, thus if the source/creator created us all, what does that make us. our spirit is from the source/creator, our bodies from our parents.

optimus i have read all ickes books, but unlike you i do not follow blindly and i use ickes work as a foundation not the complete answer. i studied all of the data.

icke belives brian desbrough, as in that "whites are from mars", lol

he doesn't even see that aryans are people who follow the vedic life eg compassionate living, veget-arian diet, aryuvedic/holistic medicine, yoga etc. thus anyone who follows the vedic culture is an aryan, from celtic druids, nordic warriors, to indian priests etc.

i have shown that africans, asians, europeans are all one race, i provided dna articles, cultural articles etc.

if icke can know this stuff about matrix/maya/illusion, then he is not the first or the last. people for thousands of years have talked about maya-illusion-matrix, buddha, krishna, yashuah did.

even einstein and huygens showed reality to be a illusion, as in not solid, real but not solid. its the wave/particle duality coupled with electric universe-tesla/holographic construction and finally the observer effect.

its science not some icke monopoly.

so when you say jesus, differentiate between the teacher and the roman/nicene creed product, or is selective recognition your modus operandi?

also as to what i believe or follow, you haven't got a clue bro.

why doesn't icke explain the yashuah, the teacher/rabbi, friend of the poor/oppresssed, rebel/anti establishment. a true revolutionary who even flavius josephus described. explain the sicarri/daggers the zealots who fought against roman/foreign occupation, how time repeats, lol

yashuah today would be labelled a terrorist/insurgent/freedom fighter

research history, religion, science critically analyse, be objective, disprove everything, whats left will be as close to the truth as you can get. be scientific not a fan.

as yashuah said test them by their fruits, ie test the actions, the data, observe/analyse.

as for the old imagination theory/matrix, the could stretch to you, me, and icke etc, so again it falls down.

the aliens/reptiles/feathered serpents/dragons, you and icke speak off, they are in the bible and other religous texts, they are the fallen angels/annunaki, who came from heaven/space.

look at constellations, orion, alpha draconis, pleiades, sirius etc.

the matrix they have us trapped us is symbolic, its spiritual/scientific ignorance.

they keep us in the view we are merely biological beings who live once on earth and thats it, its a symbolic concept.

also not all christians are demonic/evil. what about the good christians who do aid work, help the homeless, help the palestinians, help people in the thrid world etc.

when you do as much good as they do, then judge, until then brother, check yourself.

phildee3

03-03-2008, 12:34 PM

jesus is the son of god, krishna is god, what is this long thread for? jesus and krishna are so different theres no simmilarities.

Jesus is the son of man.

Christ is the son of G_d, his will, the Logos. In this sense they are one.

Christ and KRSNA are different cultural expressions of the same, divine being.

monkyies

03-03-2008, 12:40 PM

Jesus is the son of man.

Christ is the son of G_d, his will, the Logos. In this sense they are one.

Christ and KRSNA are different cultural expressions of the same, divine being.

christ was just the word in flesh, this happens many times in the form of saints, like all saints he is a parcel of god, the fully realized son like we can be.

if you wan to ignore all of hinduism. im not telling you to believe ne thing, but krishna wasnt born as some son of god, he was born as the all in all original person, the father of ne thing created, jesus is a parcel of him but also has all his qualities, being the same spark.

jesus never claimed he was god, he just said he was merged.

krishna always claimed he was god.

krishna obviously was not a prophet or saint, he made that too clear to fuck up.

monkyies

03-03-2008, 12:42 PM

clarify me if im wrong

synergy777

03-03-2008, 01:02 PM

monkyies

03-03-2008, 01:05 PM

krishna never said he was the son of god, neither did yashuah. they said we are all the children of the creator.

this divine son/chosen one, supports the elites divine right of kings/bloodline elitest rubbish.

krishne, buddha, yashuah could have been the same spirit/enlightend person ?

if they weren't then they did all speak the same message.

wtf r u talking about. i never said krishna said hes the son of god that would be INSANE as hell to say. krishna would never ever say he is the son, he is the father.

who the hell do you humans think you are, just ignoring what an entire religion has to say. krishna is not stupid, he knows the distinction between saint and sage and yogi and son of god.

he wasn't born for such confusion, krishna isnt to be looked at as just a saint, that would be the opposite.

what is this egoism, its in the gita read it every page says it that he is not close to jesus or ne other prophet.

phildee3

03-03-2008, 01:29 PM

clarify me if im wrong

okay.

christ was just the word in flesh

Please try and break out of this Roman lie that equates Jesus (male human flesh) with the christos (the Word - the androgynous, spirit G_d).

Jesus Christ is the word in the flesh.
The Word made flesh, as an infant, is a Roman heresy; -
Jesus was Christed at the baptism in the Jordan.

krishna always claimed he was god.

jesus never claimed he was god, he just said he was merged.

Correct,
but Christ claimed he was G_d.
("I and the Father are One").

In Hindu mythology, KRSNA (Christ) incarnates (G_d made flesh!).
In Christian orthodoxy, the christos (KRSNA) enters the man, Jesus.
The Roman heresy changed this story to be a copy of the Hindu one, but every appearance is unique because G_d never appears the same way twice.

phildee3

03-03-2008, 01:32 PM

krishna would never ever say he is the son, he is the father.

The Father and the Son are aspects of the same, One, supreme, eternal being.

synergy777

03-03-2008, 01:46 PM

The Roman heresy changed this story to be a copy of the Hindu one, but every appearance is unique because G_d never appears the same way twice.

roman-romani-roma

synergy777

03-03-2008, 01:48 PM

romani

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1966

phildee3

03-03-2008, 01:51 PM

roman-romani-roma

Yes, they are thieves too.
Stealing the name of my people!

"Show me a liar, - I'll show you a thief."

synergy777

03-03-2008, 01:54 PM

the romani are my people aswell bro,

i'm panjabi, one love.

phildee3

03-03-2008, 01:58 PM

the romani are my people aswell bro,

i'm panjabi, one love.

I know, bro.
I think we talked about it before.

synergy777

03-03-2008, 02:01 PM

its all good.

catch you later, off for some grub.

monkyies

03-03-2008, 02:28 PM

this is stupid, really stupid.

the son is one with the father. SO WHAT.

all im saying is that that if a brick and the house are one, THE BRICK IS STILL THE BRICK. the house is one with the brick but the house is the house.....

krishna was the father, supreme cause, nothing higher than him, not at all was before him, nothing knows more or can do more.

jesus was meant to be the created spark aspect son of god.

monkyies

03-03-2008, 02:30 PM

god is one, but i believe he has many sons, so the trinity doesnt work. he is one with all his sons but is still more than them.

synergy777

07-03-2008, 06:03 PM

could the elite had credited these false teachings to yashuah,

in order to give them credibility/gravitas.

imagine if years from now, we don't break free and the elite still rule.

however some of of ickes teachings are kept, the elite could use icke as christ figure,

mix in some of their teachings and then attribute them to icke,

then people would think icke justified/supported the elites teachings.

then people would argue about icke, question his teachings/existence.

octopusrex

08-03-2008, 06:38 PM

777: Throughout history folks have broken free of the matrix, tried to show other folks the way and then ... got whacked for it.

Get it: Krsna = Christ = Kukulkan

Any more questions?

synergy777

09-03-2008, 03:42 PM

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1347

Rabbi Reveals Name of the Messiah

Shortly before he died, one of Israel's most prominent rabbis wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was opened, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah.

A few months before he died, one of the nation’s most prominent rabbis, Yitzhak Kaduri, supposedly wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was unsealed, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah.

With the biblical name of Jesus, the Rabbi and kabbalist described the Messiah using six words and hinting that the initial letters form the name of the Messiah.

The secret note said:

Concerning the letter abbreviation of the Messiah’s name, He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid.

Thisis I have signed in the month of mercy,
Yitzhak Kaduri

The Hebrew sentence (translated above in bold) with the hidden name of the Messiah reads: Yarim Ha’Am Veyokhiakh Shedvaro Vetorato Omdim

The initials spell the Hebrew name of Jesus, Yehoshua. Yehoshua and Yeshua are effectively the same name, derived from the same Hebrew root of the word “salvation” as documented in Zechariah 6:11 and Ezra 3:2. The same priest writes in Ezra, “Yeshua son of Yozadak” while writing in Zechariah “Yehoshua son of Yohozadak.” The priest adds the holy abbreviation of God’s name, ho, in the father’s name Yozadak and in the name Yeshua.

With one of Israel’s most prominent rabbis indicating the name of the Messiah is Yeshua, it is understandable why his last wish was to wait one year after his death before revealing what he wrote.

When the name of Yehoshua appeared in Kaduri’s message, ultra-Orthodox Jews from his Nahalat Yitzhak Yeshiva (seminary) in Jerusalem argued that their master did not leave the exact solution for decoding the Messiah’s name.

The revelation received scant coverage in the Israeli media. Only the Hebrew websites News First Class (Nfc) and Kaduri.net mentioned the Messiah note, insisting it was authentic. The Hebrew daily Ma'ariv ran a story on the note but described it as a forgery.

Jewish readers responded on the websites' forums with mixed feelings: “So this means Rabbi Kaduri was a Christian?” and “The Christians are dancing and celebrating,” were among the comments.

Israel Today spoke to two of Kaduri’s followers in Jerusalem who admitted that the note was authentic, but confusing for his followers as well. “We have no idea how the Rabbi got to this name of the Messiah,” one of them said.

Yet others completely deny any possibility that the note is authentic. Kaduri’s son, Rabbi David Kaduri, said that at the time the note was written (September 2005), his father’s physical condition made it impossible for him to write.

KADURI'S PORTRAYAL OF THE MESSIAH

A few months before Kaduri died at the age of 108, he surprised his followers when he told them that he met the Messiah. Kaduri gave a message in his synagogue on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, teaching how to recognize the Messiah. He also mentioned that the Messiah would appear to Israel after Ariel Sharon’s death. (The former prime minister is still in a coma after suffering a massive stroke more than a year ago.)

Other rabbis predict the same, including Rabbi Haim Cohen, kabbalist Nir Ben Artzi and the wife of Rabbi Haim Kneiveskzy.

Kaduri’s grandson, Rabbi Yosef Kaduri, said his grandfather spoke many times during his last days about the coming of the Messiah and redemption through the Messiah.

His spiritual portrayals of the Messiah—reminiscent of New Testament accounts—were published on the websites Kaduri.net and Nfc:

“It is hard for many good people in society to understand the person of the Messiah. The leadership and order of a Messiah of flesh and blood is hard to accept for many in the nation. As leader, the Messiah will not hold any office, but will be among the people and use the media to communicate. His reign will be pure and without personal or political desire. During his dominion, only righteousness and truth will reign.

“Will all believe in the Messiah right away? No, in the beginning some of us will believe in him and some not. It will be easier for non-religious people to follow the Messiah than for Orthodox people.

“The revelation of the Messiah will be fulfilled in two stages: First, he will actively confirm his position as Messiah without knowing himself that he is the Messiah. Then he will reveal himself to some Jews, not necessarily to wise Torah scholars. It can be even simple people. Only then he will reveal himself to the whole nation. The people will wonder and say: ‘What, that’s the Messiah?’ Many have known his name but have not believed that he is the Messiah.”

FAREWELL TO A 'TSADIK'

Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri was known for his photographic memory and his memorization of the Bible, the Talmud, Rashi and other Jewish writings. He knew Jewish sages and celebrities of the last century and rabbis who lived in the Holy Land and kept the faith alive before the State of Israel was born.

Kaduri was not only highly esteemed because of his age of 108. He was charismatic and wise, and chief rabbis looked up to him as a Tsadik, a righteous man or saint. He would give advice and blessings to everyone who asked. Thousands visited him to ask for counsel or healing. His followers speak of many miracles and his students say that he predicted many disasters.

When he died, more than 200,000 people joined the funeral procession on the streets of Jerusalem to pay their respects as he was taken to hisfinal resting place.

“When he comes, the Messiah will rescue Jerusalem from foreign religions that want to rule the city,” Kaduri once said. “They will not succeed for they will fight against one another.”

THE RABBI'S FOLLOWERS REACT

In an interview with Israel Today, Rabbi David Kaduri, the 80-year-old son of the late Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri, denied that his father left a note with the name Yeshua just before he died.

“It’s not his writing,” he said when we showed him a copy of the note.

During a nighttime meeting in the Nahalat Yitzhak Yeshiva in Jerusalem, books with the elder Kaduri’s handwriting from 80 years ago were presented to us in an attempt to prove that the Messiah note was not authentic.

When we told Rabbi Kaduri that his father’s official website (www.kaduri.net) had mentioned the Messiah note, he was shocked. “Oh no! That’s blasphemy. The people could understand that my father pointed to him [the Messiah of the Christians].”

David Kaduri confirmed, however, that in his last year, his father had talked and dreamed almost exclusively about the Messiah and his coming. “My father has met the Messiah in a vision,” he said, “and told us that he would come soon.”

Israel Today was given access to many of the rabbi's manuscripts, written in his own hand for the exclusive use of his students. Most striking were the cross-like symbols painted by Kaduri all over the pages. In the Jewish tradition, one does not use crosses. In fact, even the use of a plus sign is discouraged because it might be mistaken for a cross.

But there they were, scribbled in the rabbi's own hand. When we asked what those symbols meant, Rabbi David Kaduri said they were “signs of the angel." Pressed further about the meaning of the “signs of the angel," he said he had no idea. Rabbi David Kaduri went on to explain that only his father had had a spiritual relationship with God and had met the Messiah in his dreams.

Orthodox Jews around the Nahalat Yitzhak Yeshiva told Israel Today a few weeks later that the story about the secret note of Rabbi Kaduri should never have come out, and that it had damaged the name the revered old sage.

madthumbs

09-03-2008, 05:22 PM

7+ threads, same content.

synergy777
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/366/spam20boyti4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

synergy777

09-03-2008, 09:54 PM

its relevant, just because who cannot see it, doesn't mean i should not post it, lol

those with eye to see etc.

btw, that burger looks quite nice, lol

synergy777

24-03-2008, 08:35 PM

KING ARTHUR

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11249&highlight=king+arthur

synergy777

24-03-2008, 08:38 PM

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6043/tarahillor4.jpg

synergy777

26-03-2008, 09:01 PM

kalki

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15124&page=2

read the essene article on page 1 of the kalki thread

from page 1

http://www.researchersoftruth.org/StoaLessons.htm

Joshua Emmanuel the Christ, the God-man, was preaching all this to His disciple-healers. He didn't have only 12 disciples, He had thousands of Israelites and Essenes teaching them healing and preaching them the Reality. Talking about His Father and our Father, Joshua Emmanuel the Godman, used to call Him "Allaha".

Now, what you call Jesus, He and His family and most of His disciples were Essenes, they were not Jews. What were the Essenes? The Essenes appear in Egypt as descendants of the worshippers, Israelites and Greeks (in Egypt), believing in Aton, the one Spirit-God which the pharaoh Ankhenaton, breaking the idols, declared as the real God. For centuries there was a fight between the old religion of the gods, the idols, and the one God, the Spirit-God, the God of the heavens and of the earth.

So, we find the Essenes in Egypt. They included the Greek-speaking Israelites who remained in Egypt and also the Egyptians. The language the Essenes were speaking was Greek and Aramaic. The Aramaic language came from the Egyptian language. So, these Essenes were in Egypt, but also in Palestine, in Cyprus, in Asia Minor and in Mesopotamia. They existed worshipping the one God the Father, the benevolent Father.

At that time they had three religions. The Greek idolaters worshipping idols, false gods, the Greeks and Romans. Then we have the Essenes believing in a God, calling him in Greek "Theos" and in Aramaic "Allaha". They believed in a God the Father in Spirit, the merciful, loving God. And the Israelites who were worshipping and believing in one Spirit-God also, but a God of vengeance.

The difference between the Essenes and the Israelites was that the Essenes believed in Allaha, a benevolent Father, while the Israelites believed in a powerful vengeful God, who was claiming blood sacrifices

synergy777

26-03-2008, 09:21 PM

myspace message from irish rose

Sign the SAVE TARA petition

On Friday 21 March, Minister for the Environment, John Gormley, of the Green Party, was quoted in The Irish Times as saying he could "give a cast-iron assurance" that the national monument at Rath Lugh would not be damaged by building the motorway along the current alignment.

" On the same day, Professor George Eogan travelled to Rath Lugh with TaraWatch, and witnessed the demolition works taking place there.

A video of an interview with him is available here, and the transcript is printed below. Professor Eogan is one of Ireland’s most eminent archaeologists. He is Professor Emeritus of Archaeology at University College Dublin.

George is also former Director of the Discovery Programme, the Irish state archaeological research unit, which sponsored the Tara Project, which entailed ten years of non-instrusive archaeological and historical research, by Conor Newman, Joe Fenwick, and Edel Bhreatnach.

Today, The Irish Times published a letter from Professor Eogan:
..
MOTORWAY WORKS AT TARA

Letter to the Editor - The Irish Times
Wednesday, March 26, 2008
Madam, - I was very disappointed to read in last Friday’s Irish Times that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, John Gormley, declared himself satisfied that the National Roads Authority proposals, if implemented, would result in the protection of the monument at Rath Lugh.

This is not so as the monument and its environment have already been mutilated by work carried out on the proposed route of the motorway.

Rath Lugh and its environment is an integral part of the Tara archaeological and cultural complex. Its environment includes the significant Gabhra Valley to the west towards the Hill of Tara. The latter area is now reduced to a strip of rubble as a result of work carried out by and with the authority of the present Government of which Mr Gormley is a member. Furthermore, Rath Lugh is now divorced from the archaeological complex of which it formed a part from its construction many centuries ago. As a result of the destruction, which I witnessed a couple of days ago, a "new" environment has now emerged, the personality of the area is being destroyed.

Standing on Rath Lugh and looking across the Gabhra Valley the main feature of that area is now the equivalent of a "race track" with heavy machinery driving up and down at considerable speed and creating vibrations which can be felt on Rath Lugh.

In the area that I visited three lines of defence were in place. The outermost is a spiked iron fence up to eight feet in height and secured in concrete, next came security personnel and further inwards were members of the Garda Síochána. For me, this was an intimidating experience and one that I never expected to see in order to facilitate the destruction, by our own Government, of a key portion of our own great archaeological inheritance.

- Yours, etc,

GEORGE EOGAN, Brighton Road, Rathgar, Dublin.

TEXT OF TARAWATCH INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE EOGAN

View Interview Here

Professor Eogan: Well I can only use one word, I am horrified. I had no idea that we have a regime in this country that was hell bent on destroying what is really some of the greatest parts of our national heritage. And I read in today’s Irish Times that Mr. Gormley, the Minister for the Environment, said that everything is alright.

Everything is not alright. It is a disastrous situation. What I see here now, with this great fence a couple of yards away, is, I have fortunately, I have never had to spend time in a concentration camp, but this reminds me of a concentration camp.

And, uh, it is too terrible for words. I had known this site, I was here firstly many, many years ago, and it was a reasonably well preserved site. But now it has been, totally, part of it has now been completely and absolutely destroyed. And what is happening here is one of the greatest shameful acts of cultural vandalism that took place in any part of Europe.

In view of my own involvement, I have seen areas, archaeological areas where development has taken place, and I must say that I was also, to some extent, involved for a while on a Stonehenge Committee, and there the plan was to put a road on the ramp, not overground, and certainly not to destroy what is one of the great monuments of the Tara Complex.

BIO OF GEORGE EOGAN

Director of Knowth Research Project and Professor Emeritus of Archaeology, University College, DublinGeorge Eogan (Ph.D., Trinity College, Dublin) is a leading expert in the archaeology of Ireland, with particular interest in the Neolithic and Late Bronze Ages.

He is the Director of the Knowth Research Project and has been excavating at Knowth for more than 40 years as part of his investigation of the Passage Tomb builders in Ireland and Western Europe. Professor Eogan is a native of Ireland and has taught and lectured extensively on the country’s archaeology.

Now Professor Emeritus of Archaeology, University College, Dublin, his archaeological research has led to approximately 90 papers and nine books, including The Accomplished Art: Gold and Gold-working in Britain and Ireland During the Bronze Age (Oxbow Books, 1994), Knowth and the Passage Tombs of Ireland (Thames and Hudson, 1986), and (with M.Herity) Ireland in Prehistory (Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1977).

synergy777

26-03-2008, 09:22 PM

Godfrey Higgins

The Celtic Druids, published in 1827 and 1829 as three parts, was intended as a precursor to Anacalypsis. The Celtic Druids was "an attempt to show that the druids were the priests of oriental colonies who emigrated from India, were the introducers of the First or Cadmean System of Letters, and the builders of Stonehenge, Carnac, and other Cyclopean works in Asia and Europe." Higgins prefaced the 1829 second edition stating that he was preparing a review of "all the ancient Mythologies of the world, which, however varied, and corrupted in recent times, were originally one, and that one founded on principles sublime, beautiful, and true." This review would become Anacalypsis.

Godfrey Higgins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anacalypsis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Carnac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

synergy777

27-03-2008, 08:50 PM

http://www.redicecreations.com/winterwonderland/stoneofscone.html

Stone of Scone - Stone of Destiny - Jacob's Pillow/Pillar Stone - BabyLon(don) & Rennes Le Chateau

The Stone of Scone in the Coronation Chair at Westminster Abbey

2005 10 01

Compiled by Henrik Palmgren | Red-Ice.net

The Stone of Scone, more commonly known as the Stone of Destiny or the Coronation Stone (though the former name sometimes refers to Lia Fáil) is a block of sandstone historically kept at the now-ruined abbey in Scone, near Perth. It is also known as Jacob's Pillow Stone, Jacob's Pillar Stone and as the Tanist Stone.

Traditionally, it is supposed to be the stone which Jacob used as a pillow. It was originally supposed to have been used as the Coronation Stone of the early Dalriada Scots when they lived in Ireland. When they invaded Caledonia, it is said to have been taken with them for that use. Another theory states that the stone was actually the travelling altar used by St Columba in his missionary activities throughout what is now Scotland. Certainly, since the time of Kenneth Mac Alpin at around 847, Scottish kings were seated upon the stone during their coronation ceremony. At this time the stone was situated at Scone, a few miles north of Perth.

In 1996 the British Government decided that the Stone should be kept in Scotland when not in use at coronations, and on November 15, 1996, after a handover ceremony at the Border between representatives of the Home Office and of the Scottish Office, it was returned to Scotland and transported to Edinburgh Castle where it remains. Although the Stone is back in Scotland, Edinburgh Castle is the military headquarters of the UK army in Scotland, and some Scots have argued that the stone should be kept someplace solely Scottish, someplace which could not be interpreted as symbolic of United Kingdom union. Provision has been made to transport the stone to Westminster Abbey when it is required there for future coronation ceremonies.

Read more: Stone of Scone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jacob's Pillow-Pillar Stone - Jacob's Dream stone

Jacob's Pillow-Pillar Stone refers to an episode in the Book of Genesis 28:10-18 [1] when the Hebrew patriarch Jacob was running from home after getting the blessing of the first born from his father Isaac (and which his brother Esau also wanted), he came to a place where he rested his head on a stone and then consecrated it after God appeared to him in a dream.)

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Pillow-Pillar_Stone

Jacob's Ladder (Bible)

Jacob then named the place Bethel (literally, "House of God". "El" is one short form of "Elohim"). The name "House of God" and the term "gate of heaven" are suggestive of the metaphor of the temple as the earthly abode of a deity; this is reinforced by the image in Jacob's dream of a ladder between heaven and earth which the angels of God and (according to the "beside him" reading of the text) God himself use to come down to earth.

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Ladder_%28Bible%29

Where is the Gate of the Heavens? - Tower of BabyLon(don)?

Jacob Hears the Voice of the Lord

...Jacob's experiences in Charan, where he fled to escape the wrath of his brother Esau, who is angry with him because he stole the blessing (Bereishit 27). Jacob leaves Beersheba, on his way into exile, stops for a nights rest in a place that was to become known as "Beit El" (the house of God) and there he dreams a dream. In his dream: "Behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the head of it reached heaven and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it" (Bereishit 28:12). After this God reveals himself and promises to protect Jacob wherever he may travel, to give him the "land upon which you lie" (verse 13) and even a multitude of descendants: "Your seed shall be as the dust of the earth and you shall spread to the west, to the east to the north and to the south" (Verse 14). The continuation of the narrative tells: "And Jacob awoke out of his sleep and he said: Surely the Lord is in this place: and I knew it not. And he was afraid and he said: How terrible is this place! This is none other then the house of the Lord and this is the gate of heaven" (verses 16-17).

The description of the height of the ladder that Jacob sees "the head of it reached heaven", reminds us of the description of the tower of Babel, by its builders: "We will build a city and a tower with its head reaching heaven" (Bereishit 12:4). The story of the building of the tower of Babel is a story of human pride that knows no limits. Man wants to build a tower and make a name for himself (ibid verse 4), to cross the boundary between heaven and earth, between man and God. Man's punishment is not slow to come: God scatters them on the face of the earth and divides them according to their languages so that no one understood his fellow man. The story concludes with a Midrash mocking and poking fun at the name Babel: "therefore they called its name Babel because God balal (confused) the languages of the earth" (verse 9). Hereinafter we shall see how the residents of Babylon explained the name of the city they dwelt in; the Torah in any case explains it in terms of confusion and intermingling.

In the whole Bible we find no other similar phrases to the abovementioned two: "and the head of it [the ladder] reached heaven" and "a tower with its head reaching heaven". The similarity between the two phrases should attract the attention of the reader and cause them to compare the two stories in which they are found. But one thing must be remembered: the reader should not be satisfied with finding similarity but even more importantly should look for dissimilarity and even disagreement between them, as it could in fact be there that the message lies. The following is a comparison between the story of the tower of Babel and Jacob's ladder.

1. While the tower connects between earth and heaven, it is the initiative of man; the revelation of the ladder in Jacob's dream is an expression of God's will. Man remains on earth but, if God wills it, man can witness a revelation that connects between heaven and earth.

2. Man's plot to ascend to the heavens does not succeed and God stops the building process. In contrast, the ladder does connect between heaven and earth and ministering angels ascend and descend upon it, as only they are able and allowed to do so.

3. In order to view man's handiwork, the building of the tower, God descends from his place: "And God descended to see the city and the tower which man had built" (12:5). When talking to Jacob, God stands at the top of the ladder: "And behold the Lord stood above it and said 'I am Hashem, the God of Abraham" (28:13).

4. When building the city and tower, the builder made use of bricks: "and they had brick for stone" (11:3), and it's possible that we have here an expression of astonishment - and maybe even mockery - of those who put their faith in the strength and durability of bricks, made by human hands. Jacob, in contrast, places a real stone: "And Jacob arose early in the morning and took the stone he had put under his head and placed it as a monument" (28:18). The stone Jacob placed was the foundation of the house of God which would be established in that place: "and this stone which I have placed as a monument will be the house of God" (ibid 22)

5. In the labor of construction by the builders of the tower there is an expression of defiance against heaven. Jacob's placing of the stone - and the building of a house of God in this place in the future - is to honor God.

6. The builders of the tower begin their initiative when they "travel from the east" (12:2). Jacob goes "to the land of the people of the east" (29:1) after he vows to establish a house of God when he returns to his father's house.

7. The fear of the tower builders, "lest we be dispersed on the face of the earth" (12:4), comes to pass when God punishes them: "And God dispersed them on the face of the earth… and from there God dispersed them on the face of the earth" (12:8-9). God promises Jacob that he will bring him back to his land from the place of his exile: "And I will bring you back to this land because I will not abandon you" (29:15).

8. As in the story of the tower of Babel, in the story of the ladder, the name of the place is also elucidated. In this case the name "Beit-El" (house of God) is explained in a positive light, which expresses God's presence in that place: "…How terrible is this place! This is none other then the house of the Lord …" (verse 17), "And called the name of that place Beit El" (verse 19), "and this stone which I have placed as a monument will be the house of God" (verse 22).

9. And most importantly for our discussion: Jacob continues and declares that the place where an aperture was opened for him to see God and his angels ascending and descending on the ladder is the "gate of heaven" (verse 18). This is a clear expression of polemic against the Babylonian outlook, who saw their city in this way, since the name "Babel" was explained by the Babylonians as the "gate of God" (bab-ili) or "the gates of the gods" (bab- il?ni), in other words "the gate of heaven".

10. Our story declares that the gate of heaven is found in the land of Israel and not in the land of Shen'ar, in Beit-El and not in Babylon; a place where the believer expressed thanksgiving to his God who was revealed to him and not a place where man wished to conquer God's dwelling place. Babylon is no longer worthy of the name "gate of heaven" and it now refers to Beit-El.

Transfer of the place of "the gate of heaven" from Babylon to Beit-El is not the conclusion of the process. In the story of the threshing floor of Arvana, the story of the dedication of Jerusalem in the days of David, as it is told in the book of Divrei Hayamim (Chronicles), we find a verse that has no parallel in chapter 24 of Shmuel II, which is the original source for the compiler of Divrei Hayamim: "And David said: This is the house of God and this is the sacrificial altar for Israel" (Divrei Hayamim I 22:1). The phraseology is very similar to that of Jacob in the story of the ladder ("This is none other than the house of the Lord and this is the gate of heaven" [verse 17]), and it seems that this is an attempt to identify various places of ceremonial significance, Beit-El and Jerusalem, as one place.

This notion is mentioned later in the Midrash. There it is told that Jacob went to "Mount Moriah … and he lay down to sleep there because the sun had set … and he awoke suddenly with great fear and said: This is the house of the Holy One, blessed be He, in this place it was said 'this is the gate of heaven'". After Jacob erects a monument, "what does the Holy One, blessed be He, do? He put his right foot down firmly and pushed the stone down to the depths of the earth … and on it the temple of God stands as it is written "and this stone which I have placed as a monument will be the house of God" (Pirkey D'Rabi Eliezer, chapter 35).

Read More: http://www.jafi.org.il/education/torani/nehardeah/vayeitzeh.html

Is the Stone of Scone or Jacob's Pillow/Pillar stone a cornerstone or a keystone of Solomon's Temple or from the Tower of Babel/Babylon?

Are we talking about the same stone, the Coronation Stone, that used to be in Westminster Abbey, London? From where the British-Israel World Federation Rules. Are they part of the lost tribes of Israel, now under a banner of the United Kingdom of Heaven?

A sidenote: Does this have anything to do with the The Tower of (Baby)London? (Sacrificial Altar)

In an article I found, they ask the question "Is London the New Jerusalem, the City of Revelation?":

London's Ancient Sacred Sites are Located in a Very Significant Pattern
For the last eighteen years, the author has been researching the relationships between London's oldest ancient sacred sites. Their locations define a huge pattern of sacred geometry on the landscape: A vast and beautiful design covering the whole of greater London. Its main alignments link to other ancient sites the length and breadth of the land.

A monumental discovery, like finding another stonehenge beneath oxford circus

The basis of these patterns is a temple groundplan. It is the most important construction of sacred geometry and one that has been used in the design of temples throughout the centuries. Indeed, the oldest example of its use is in the construction of Stonehenge. To find exactly the same design, but at a much larger scale, hidden within the London landscape is startling to say the least. To find that it is defined by some of London's most important ancient sites, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, The Tower of London and others too numerous to name here, is astonishing evidence that this discovery has a firm foundation in reality.

Is London the New Jerusalem, the City of Revelation?

The Earthstars geometry is of immense significance, incorporating a harmonic relationship with the structure and dimensions of the Earth and Moon. This has been noted previously by no less an authority on these subjects than John Michell who also associates this geometric construction with the measures and proportions attributed to The City of Revelation, the New Jerusalem, described by St. John in The book of Revelation. Remarkably, this is an unusual confirmation of William Blake's visions of Jerusalem within London's spiritual dimensions.

Since the City of Revelation is said to appear at the end of the age, perhaps it is no concidence that this discovery has come to light at the turning point of the millenium. Rather worryingly, it is more likely to be environmentalists who warn us that the end is nigh these days, rather that visionaries like St, John or William Blake.

Read More: http://www.earth-stars.com/visions.htm

The Rennes Le Chateau Connection

There is a legend that the Knights Templar smuggled out a treasure they excavated from under the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem (where Solomon Temple once was). This treasure eventually ended up at Rennes le Chateau in Southern France, with some kind of connection to the Cathars (another lost tribe?).

We had read about the statement “This place is terrible” above the church door, which is a quote from The Book of Genesis, specifically the story in which the patriarch Jacob falls asleep on a stone and has a vision of a ladder leading up to Heaven, with angels ascending and descending upon it. This stone is the same as the Stone of Destiny brought to Scotland by the prophet Jeremiah, and it became the stone upon which British monarchs are coronated to this very today. What is noteworthy is that beneath the words “This place is terrible” on the doorway, we have the rest of the quote from Genesis: “This is the house of God and the gateway to Heaven.” It is thus not a curse but a statement upon the dual nature of divinity. This is actually how the quote from We also found quite a bit of iconography etched over the doorway that has not been previously noted, including two Templar crosses, two Crosses of Lorraine, and the Masonic image of the “Blazing Star” which purportedly fell from the heavens to enlighten mankind.

Read more: http://www.dragonkeypress.com/articles/article_2004_10_26_4609.html

And Jacob awoke out of his sleep, and he said, Surely Jehovah is in this place; and I knew it not. And he feared, and said, How terrible is this place! this is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

Read more from (GENESIS 28:16-17)

Here is a link to an article that points out that there might be a profound relationship between all these places (even with connections to Mars): Mars, Rennes-le-Chateau, and the Hall of Records

Keep in mind also that the Scottish rite of Freemasonry probably are directly spawned out of the Knights Templar who fled to Rosslyn, Scotland and built the Rosslyn Chapel. They fled due to the catholic church.

The Above article from wikipedia on Stone of Scone states: "It was originally supposed to have been used as the Coronation Stone of the early Dalriada Scots when they lived in Ireland. When they invaded Caledonia, it is said to have been taken with them for that use. Another theory states that the stone was actually the travelling altar used by St Columba (Illuminati Warning) in his missionary activities throughout what is now Scotland."

Could there be a Phoenician/Canaanite connection to the Dalriada Scots or the Picts and therefore to Solomon’s Temple?

The Phoenician king Hiram of Tyre (989-936 BC) built a palace for David and two palaces and a temple for Solomon. The Bible provides a vast amount of information about them.

David’s Palace - King Hiram of Tyre sent a trade mission to David; he provided him with cedar logs and with stonemasons and carpenters to build a palace. (1 Chronicles 14:1)

Read More: http://www.lgic.org/en/phoenicians.php

Scholars have written for centuries about an ancient sea-faring people known to modem history books as the Tuatha de Danan who founded civilizations in Greece, Spain, Britain, and Ireland. Scholars now know that the word, Tuarth, means 'tribe'. Dr Gordon has also established that the suffix, 'AN' was added to proper names in early times to signify a people or community. Thus, the name of these important early European colonists should be translated, the 'tribe of Dan.' Was this the Biblical people, one of the twelve tribes of Israel?

...Bold scholars see the influence of the Danites in Irish folk lore ... and in the name of Danmark (Denmark): the land of Dan

Early antiquarian scholar, Aylett Sammes, published his extensive research in 1676 in a work entitled, THE ANTIQUITIES OF ANCIENT BRITAIN DERIVED FROM THE PHOENICIANS. He pointed out (p. 58) that the Danites were also known in British history as 'Damnonii,'but that 'the transposition is very easy and usual, and hides not at all the original, Dan.'The Danites settled especially in southwestern Britain's 'Phoenician' tin districts, he says, adding that in this area many rivers, cities, and hills have names compounded with the tribal name, 'Dan.'

...Britannia, from the Phoenician,'Baratanac, a country of tin. Metals such as tin and lead were mined and exported from the west coasts of Cornwall and the Scilly islands.'...

Read More: http://www.1335.com/sea.html

Would you believe these are you (Isaiah says; to the "isles afar off")? Are they descendents of the British Isles, Ireland, the countries of northwest Europe, the United States and even Japan?

One important link/key is the term Scythians (Celts); "the people who dwell in booths".

Scythians (Iranians) & Celts (Scots & Picts) Are they the same?

Read More on this: Origins of the Picts & Scots

Did the prophet Jeremiah (a Chief of Iber) die in Ireland?

Did he travel there in 583-560 BC from Egypt around the same time of the destruction of Jerusalem, with: the scribe Baruch, Ebed-Melech, Tea Tephi (daughter of Zedekiah & heir to the throne-line of Pharez), and the son of the king of Ireland who had been in Jerusalem at the time of the siege? Did Jeremiah come to Ireland to build the nation Israel in the Isles of the West and to plant the royal line of David upon Israels throne in the person of Zedekiahs daughter, Tea Tephi? Tea Tephi is the name of the most celebrated queen in early Irish history. With her the lion came into Irish heraldry, an emblem of the Israelites, but especially of the tribe of Judah. With Tea Tephi also a most remarkable 400 pound stone came to Ireland called the Lia Fail, or stone wonderful, or Stone of Scone upon which the Irish line of kings were crowned until about 500 A.D. Thereafter it was carried to Scotland and used as coronation stone there till 1296 A.D. Then Edward I carried it to Westminster Abbey where it has been ever since, until just recently when it was returned to Scotland, as the Coronation Stone of Great Britain.

Tea Tephi married the Irish monarch, Eiochaid, the Heremonn, thus joining the Pharez and Zarah branches of Judahs royal line, and from them through the Irish and Scotch line of kings one can trace the descent to George VI and show that Davids line did not lapse for Yahweh keep His covenant of salt. (2 Chronicles 13:5)

Was Jeremiah the elderly white-haired patriarch, sometimes referred to as a "saint," who came ashore in Ulster in Irish tradition? Wasn't Jeremiah the grandfather of King Zedekiah (last king of Judah); and thus, God's Trustee of the Bloodline and the Throne of David? From these sources we learn that about 565 B.C., soon after Jeremiah and the kings daughters disappeared in eastern history, there appeared in Ireland at Tara, the seat of the Irish kings, a remarkable and mysterious personage, a prophet named Ollam Fola, who instituted a school of prophets in Ireland. From the number of Hebrew words connected with this mysterious personage he is shown to have been a Hebrew prophet. The only Hebrew prophet who disappeared with any such mission as would take him to the Isles of the West, was Jeremiah, whose bust is in Dublin Castle. The name of Jeremiah remains everywhere in those parts even today.

Could a female further the bloodline?

Did Jeremiah bring the ancient Jewish coronation stone to Ireland (was the throne then overturned 3 times, and now is in London?)?

Was it moved three times (finally to England) in fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy mentioned in chapter 21, verses 25-27? Did St. Andrew journey to Scotland? Is Israel today Ephraim? Is Britain and the United States Manasseh?

Legend says Ireland was already populated by Hebrews before Jeremiah's arrival. Long prior to 700 B.C. another strong colony called "Tuatha de Danaan" (tribe of Dan) arrived in ships, drove out other tribes, and settled there. Later, in the days of David, a colony of the line of Zarah arrived in Ireland from the Near East. In light of this, imagine how fruitful the Irish potato famine has proven to be.... Or, is all the above a fabrication started via a book ("England the Remnant of Judah." London, 1861) by British-Israel expositor named Rev. F.R.A. Glover who combined two different people Tea and Tephi from two different time periods? Is the Worldwide Church of God behind furthering this confusion? Or, is it all true??

Read More: http://www.bibleprobe.com/lost.htm

The Book of Tephi, Queen of Tara and Gibraltar
Teia Tephi was the daughter (Tender Twig) of the king of Jerusalem (the Cedar) whom Jeremiah went forth to PLANT in Ireland after the ROOTING-OUT and DESTRUCTION of Zedekiah, the king of Jerusalem in c. 588 B.C.

The Book of Tephi describes in detail the journey Jeremiah took with Teia Tephi, The Lia Fail (Stone of Destiny) and The Ark of The Covenant from Jerusalem to Ireland, via Tanis in Egypt (as in "Raiders of The Lost Ark") then on to Gibraltar (where she was proclaimed queen of the Gadite Israelites who live there); Breogan in Spain; Cornwall and eventually landing at Howth, near Dublin, in Ireland on the 18th. of June 583 B.C.

The Book then goes on to describe many of the significant events which occurred at that time in history and are associated with her journey from Jerusalem to Ireland. It is also full of Prophecies about many of the major events which have occurred in the world between her and our time (2,500 years); including the First-Coming of Christ and the colonizing of the world by the British Empire. The Book also gives some very significant prophecies about the times we now live in.

Perhaps the most relevant of her Prophecies, which is the only one in "The Book of Tephi, queen of Tara and Gibraltar" that remains to be fulfilled, is about this (our) time in history when she predicts that she would be recovered from her subterranean tomb on The Hill of Tara, in Co. Meath, Ireland; along with The Ark of The Covenant and once again bring peace and unity to all of Ireland as she had done two and a half thousand years ago; and that Christ would come out of her tomb with her, to be inaugurated King of all of Ireland, on the Stone of Destiny, at Tara, and this time, also bring peace and unity to the whole world.

http://jahtruth.net/tephi.htm
Why is there a Jewish Star/Star of David (Magen David) or Shield of David, Solomon's Seal on the Ulster Flags symbols and emblems of Northern Ireland?

The Orange Order is another name for the same Ulster separatist movement. It's a freemasonic protestant movement of Northern Ireland with William of Orange as the "hero". See: the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland for more.

Do you remember the Israeli "Orange" revolt? Very similar to Ukraine's "Orange Revolution" with Viktor Yushchenko as front man.

There is a message here folks!

Considering the whole British-Israel Word Federation thingy going on, I find all these connections very interesting.

Is there a connection between these geographical locations? Are they trying to unite the lost tribes and set up a United Kingdom of God? What's the plan here?

More investigation is needed!

More Links: Stone of Destiny

The Lia Fail - Bethel - Stone of Destiny - Jacob's Pillar (Video)

Lia Fail

Jacob's ladder

Rennes-Discovery.com

Rosslyntemplars.org.uk

Lost Tribes of Israel & The Stone of Scone

British-Israel Word Federation

The Lost Tribes of the House of Israel

The Coronation Stone

Orange Order

Google pictures search: Rennes le Chateau

synergy777

27-03-2008, 10:08 PM

http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/krishna.htm

The eighth and principal Avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu, the preserver, the eighth child of Vasu-deva and Devaki, the principle expounder of Vedantism. Crowley considered him to be a human being, a Magus of A:. A:., whose Word has survived as INRI. This formula expresses the secret workings of harmonious change within Nature. In this capacity, Crowley identified Krishna with a complex of other mythic figures, especially Dionysus, Osiris, Baldur, Adonis, Attis, Marsyas and Jesus Christ. The word of Krishna as a Magus of Ind was AUM, the Word of Dionysus as a Magus of Hellas was IAO. See Chapter 71 of Liber Aleph and Chapter 7 of The Book of Lies. The name Krishna means "the Dark One," and he is usually depicted with dark blue skin, and playing a flute.

(the INRI, what yashuah had on his cross and aum/om, also IAO = i am the alpha and the omega)

According to the legend, Kansa, the cruel king of the Yâdavas at Mathura (near Âgra), usurper of his own father's throne, heard a voice one day which predicted that a child of his sister Devaki would destroy him. In his terror, he went to Devaki and killed the six of her newborn children that he could find. The seventh, Balarâma, though conceived by Devaki, had been, by the grace of the gods, borne by her sister. The eighth, Krishna, born on the vernal equinox, had been smuggled out of Mathura along with his brother Balarâma and switched with the child of a peasant. Kansa noticed that two of Devaki's children were missing, and ordered the massacre of every strong-looking male child in the city.

(the similarities between king herod/massacre of the infants and king kansa)

While Kansa massacred the children of Mathura, the infant Krishna lay safely the stable of Nanden, surrounded by cowherds. Brahmâ, Shiva and the other gods visited him to pay him tribute, showering him with flowers. Marked by the gods with a Srivatsa (looped cross) on his breast, Krishna grew up in safety in the country, sporting with milkmaids, playing his flute, disputing with holy men, and engaging in various heroics and pranks. The Hindu "Song of Songs," the Gîtâ Govinda, contains a type of erotic mysticism couched in the stories of Krishna and the milkmaids.

(the stable, shepards, sheep/cows, also the looped cross the ANKH)

Kansa, having finally discovered the ruse, determined to lure the two youths to the city, there to capture and slay them. He announced a great tournament, to which all the country folk were invited. The brothers and their fellow cow-herds accepted the invitation and went to Mathura. Krishna, being divine, easily bested all of Kansa's champions and eluded all of Kansa's traps. Finally, he leapt up to the dais on which Kansa sat, dragged him down by the hair and killed him.

Krishna assumed his rightful place as ruler of Mathura, then descended into the city of the dead to recover his six slain brothers. With a sudden blast on his conch shell, he so frightened Yama, the lord of death, that he was able to escape with his brothers.

He later became involved in the Mahâbhârata, the great war between the Kurus and the Pândavas, serving as the charioteer of Arjuna, "the Bright One." At the commencement of the fighting, Arjuna faltered, and told Krishna that he was unable to strike against his beloved brothers the Kurus. Krishna revealed to him the necessity for a warrior to fight, and to abandon personal considerations in the accomplishment of his Dharma (destiny, or true will). Krishna's exposition to Arjuna is set forth in the Bhagavad Gîtâ, or "Song of God," which is included in the Liber E and A:. A:. Section 1 reading lists. In 1885, Sir Edward Arnold, author of The Light of Asia, produced an English poetic version of the Bhagavad Gîtâ called "The Song Celestial," which is included in Section 2 of the A:. A:. reading list. The Bhagavad Gîtâ is one chapter of a larger work, the Mahâbhârata, the complete history of the Great War. The Mahâbhârata is one of the great classics of Hinduism, as well as of human history, and deserves the attention of every Thelemite.

After the great war, Krishna returned to Mathura and eventually died. Seated cross-legged in the forest, he was wounded in his single vulnerable place, his left heel, by an arrow shot by the hunter Jarâ (which means "cold" or "old age"), who had mistaken Krishna for a deer. Krishna pronounced his forgiveness of Jarâ, saying he "knew not what he did," and sent him to heaven in his own chariot before he died himself.

(the heel like greek achilles, also the myth of orion/hunter)

Having died in the far West of India, Krishna's bones were carried at the command of Vishnu to Puri, in the far East of India. Here his bones were enshrined, and his worship under the name Jaganath ("Lord of the World," the origin of our word Juggernaut) was instituted.

References:

Arnold, Sir Edwin; The Song Celestial [1885], Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, Ill.
Campbell, Joseph; The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Bollingen Series XVII, Princeton/Bollingen, Princeton NJ 1949/1968
Crowley, Aleister; The Book of Lies [1913], Samuel Weiser, NY 1978
Crowley, Aleister; Liber Aleph vel CXI, The Book of Wisdom or Folly [Thelema Publishing, 1962], Samuel Weiser, York Beach, Maine 1991
Forlong, J.G.R.; Faiths of Man, a Cyclopaedia of Religions [Bernard Quaritch, 1906], University Books, NY 1964
L‚vi, Eliphas; The Book of Splendours, Samuel Weiser, New York 1973/1984
Masson-Oursel, P. and Louise Morin; "Indian Mythology" in The New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Hamlyn, NY 1959/1968
Vyasa; The Mahâbhârata, retold and introduced by William Buck, Mentor, New York 1976

5/9/95

Originally published in Red Flame No. 2 -- Mystery of Mystery: A Primer of Thelemic Ecclesiastical Gnosticism by Tau Apiryon and Helena; Berkeley, CA 1995 e.v.

octopusrex

27-03-2008, 10:36 PM

Heads up 777.

144,000 have to agree that they are the chosen ones.

synergy777

27-03-2008, 10:46 PM

how do you agree?,

without being arrogant, deluded, and suffering from claridad/messiah syndrome.

just look at shayler etc.

if i heard voices, had dreams, saw signs, had birthmarks/tiloks on foreheads, coincidences etc

if these factors alluded to me being chosen, i would never believe it, and would pass it off as irrational delusion or arrogance.

pilgrim

28-03-2008, 12:07 AM

References:
Arnold, Sir Edwin; The Song Celestial [1885], Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton, Ill.
Campbell, Joseph; The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Bollingen Series XVII, Princeton/Bollingen, Princeton NJ 1949/1968
Crowley, Aleister; The Book of Lies [1913], Samuel Weiser, NY 1978
Crowley, Aleister; Liber Aleph vel CXI, The Book of Wisdom or Folly [Thelema Publishing, 1962], Samuel Weiser, York Beach, Maine 1991
Forlong, J.G.R.; Faiths of Man, a Cyclopaedia of Religions [Bernard Quaritch, 1906], University Books, NY 1964
L‚vi, Eliphas; The Book of Splendours, Samuel Weiser, New York 1973/1984
Masson-Oursel, P. and Louise Morin; "Indian Mythology" in The New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Hamlyn, NY 1959/1968
Vyasa; The Mahâbhârata, retold and introduced by William Buck, Mentor, New York 1976

Do you really trust those references? :confused:
Aleister Crowley & other Illuminati Freemasons?

For real information about The Disappearance Of Lord Krishna go to the source:
SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM
http://vedabase.net/sb/11/30/en
http://vedabase.net/sb/11/31/en

EXTRACTS:

SB 11.30.27: Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Devakī, having seen the departure of Lord Rāma, sat down silently on the ground under a nearby pippala tree.

SB 11.30.28-32: The Lord was exhibiting His brilliantly effulgent four-armed form, the radiance of which, just like a smokeless fire, dissipated the darkness in all directions. His complexion was the color of a dark blue cloud and His effulgence the color of molten gold, and His all-auspicious form bore the mark of Śrīvatsa. A beautiful smile graced His lotus face, locks of dark blue hair adorned His head, His lotus eyes were very attractive, and His shark-shaped earrings glittered. He wore a pair of silken garments, an ornamental belt, the sacred thread, bracelets and arm ornaments, along with a helmet, the Kaustubha jewel, necklaces, anklets and other royal emblems. Encircling His body were flower garlands and His personal weapons in their embodied forms. As He sat He held His left foot, with its lotus-red sole, upon His right thigh.

SB 11.30.33: Just then a hunter named Jarā, who had approached the place, mistook the Lord's foot for a deer's face. Thinking he had found his prey, Jarā pierced the foot with his arrow, which he had fashioned from the remaining iron fragment of Sāmba's club.

SB 11.30.34: Then, seeing that four-armed personality, the hunter became terrified of the offense he had committed, and he fell down, placing his head upon the feet of the enemy of the demons.

SB 11.30.35: Jarā said: O Lord Madhusūdana, I am a most sinful person. I have committed this act out of ignorance. O purest Lord, O Uttamaḥśloka, please forgive this sinner.

SB 11.30.36: O Lord Viṣṇu, the learned say that for any man, constant remembrance of You will destroy the darkness of ignorance. O master, I have wronged You!

SB 11.30.37: Therefore, O Lord of Vaikuṇṭha, please kill this sinful hunter of animals immediately so he may not again commit such offenses against saintly persons.

SB 11.30.38: Neither Brahmā nor his sons, headed by Rudra, nor any of the great sages who are masters of the Vedic mantras can understand the function of Your mystic power. Because Your illusory potency has covered their sight, they remain ignorant of how Your mystic power works. Therefore, what can I, such a low-born person, possibly say?

SB 11.30.39: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Jarā, do not fear. Please get up. What has been done is actually My own desire. With My permission, go now to the abode of the pious, the spiritual world.

SB 11.30.40: So instructed by the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, who assumes His transcendental body by His own will, the hunter circumambulated the Lord three times and bowed down to Him. Then the hunter departed in an airplane that had appeared just to carry him to the spiritual sky.

SB 11.30.41: At that time Dāruka was searching for his master, Kṛṣṇa. As he neared the place where the Lord was sitting, he perceived the aroma of tulasī flowers in the breeze and went in its direction.

SB 11.30.42: Upon seeing Lord Kṛṣṇa resting at the foot of a banyan tree, surrounded by His shining weapons, Dāruka could not control the affection he felt in his heart. His eyes filled with tears as he rushed down from the chariot and fell at the Lord's feet.

SB 11.30.43: Dāruka said: Just as on a moonless night people are merged into darkness and cannot find their way, now that I have lost sight of Your lotus feet, my Lord, I have lost my vision and am wandering blindly in darkness. I cannot tell my direction, nor can I find any peace.

SB 11.30.44: [Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued:] O foremost of kings, while the chariot driver was still speaking, before his very eyes the Lord's chariot rose up into the sky along with its horses and its flag, which was marked with the emblem of Garuḍa.

SB 11.30.45: All the divine weapons of Viṣṇu rose up and followed the chariot. The Lord, Janārdana, then spoke to His chariot driver, who was most astonished to see all this.

SB 11.30.46: O driver, go to Dvārakā and tell Our family members how their loved ones destroyed one another. Also tell them of the disappearance of Lord Sańkarṣaṇa and of My present condition.

SB 11.30.47: You and your relatives should not remain in Dvārakā, the capital of the Yadus, because once I have abandoned that city it will be inundated by the ocean.

SB 11.31.13: Although Lord Kṛṣṇa, being the possessor of infinite powers, is the only cause of the creation, maintenance and destruction of innumerable living beings, He simply did not desire to keep His body in this world any longer. Thus He revealed the destination of those fixed in the self and demonstrated that this mortal world is of no intrinsic value.

SB 11.31.23: As soon as Dvārakā was abandoned by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ocean flooded it on all sides, O King, sparing only His palace.

SB 11.31.27: A person who with faith engages in chanting the glories of these various pastimes and incarnations of Viṣṇu, the Lord of lords, will gain liberation from all sins.

SB 11.31.28: The all-auspicious exploits of the all-attractive incarnations of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and also the pastimes He performed as a child, are described in this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in other scriptures. Anyone who clearly chants these descriptions of His pastimes will attain transcendental loving service unto Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is the goal of all perfect sages.

pilgrim

28-03-2008, 12:14 AM

SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM: Canto 10: The Summum Bonum
http://vedabase.net/sb/10/en

The summary of the First Chapter is as follows:

Once when the entire world was overburdened by the increasing military power of demons in the form of kings, mother earth assumed the shape of a cow and approached Lord Brahmā for relief, Sympathetic to mother earth's lamentation, Brahmā, accompanied by Lord Śiva and other demigods, took the cow-shaped mother earth to the shore of the milk ocean, where he offered prayers to please Lord Viṣṇu, who lay there on an island in transcendental ecstasy. Brahmā thereafter understood the advice of Mahā-Viṣṇu, who informed him that He would appear on the surface of the earth to mitigate the burden created by the demons. The demigods, along with their wives, should appear there as associates of Lord Kṛṣṇa in the family of Yadu to increase the sons and grandsons in that dynasty. By the will of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Anantadeva would appear first, as Balarāma, and Kṛṣṇa's potency, yogamāyā, would also appear. Brahmā informed mother earth about all this, and then he returned to his own abode.

After marrying Devakī, Vasudeva was returning home with her on a chariot driven by Kaḿsa, her brother, when an ominous voice addressed Kaḿsa, warning him that Devakī's eighth son would kill him. Upon hearing this omen, Kaḿsa was immediately ready to kill Devakī, but Vasudeva diplomatically began to instruct him. Vasudeva stressed that it would not be good for Kaḿsa to kill his younger sister, especially at the time of her marriage. Anyone who possesses a material body must die, Vasudeva advised him. Every living entity lives in a body for some time and then transmigrates to another body, but one is unfortunately misled into accepting the body as the soul. If a person under this mistaken conception wants to kill another body, he is condemned as hellish.

Because Kaḿsa was not satisfied by Vasudeva's instructions, Vasudeva devised a plan. He offered to bring Kaḿsa all of Devakī's children so that Kaḿsa could kill them. Why then should Kaḿsa kill Devakī now? Kaḿsa was satisfied by this proposal. In due course of time, when Devakī gave birth to a child, Vasudeva brought the newborn baby to Kaḿsa, who, upon seeing Vasudeva's magnanimity, was struck with wonder. When Vasudeva gave Kaḿsa the child, Kaḿsa, showing some intelligence, said that since he was to be killed by the eighth child, why should he kill the first? Although Vasudeva did not trust him, Kaḿsa requested Vasudeva to take the child back. Later, however, after Nārada approached Kaḿsa and disclosed to him that the demigods were appearing in the Yadu and Vṛṣṇi dynasties and conspiring to kill him, Kaḿsa decided to kill all the children born in these families, and he also decided that any child born from the womb of Devakī must be killed. Thus he arrested and imprisoned both Devakī and Vasudeva and killed six of their sons, one after another. Nārada had also informed Kaḿsa that in his previous birth Kaḿsa was Kālanemi, a demon killed by Viṣṇu. Consequently, Kaḿsa became a great enemy to all the descendants of the yadu-vaḿśa, the Yadu dynasty. He even arrested and imprisoned his own father, Ugrasena, for Kaḿsa wanted to enjoy the kingdom alone.

synergy777

28-03-2008, 01:59 AM

well i guess i am at the stage to see what lies beyond this biological life.

octopusrex

28-03-2008, 03:32 AM

well i guess i am at the stage to see what lies beyond this biological life.

Never be in a rush for that, young one.

synergy777

30-03-2008, 05:58 PM

http://www.the7thfire.com/queen_tephi/lia-fail.html

Lia Fail, the British Coronation Stone

And he (Jacob) lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put [them for] his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

And, behold, the "I AM" stood above it, and said, I [am] the "I AM" God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; And thy seed (Jacob's) shall be as "the dust of the earth", and thou shalt spread abroad to the West, and to the East, and to the North, and to the South: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And, behold, I [am] with thee, and will keep thee in all [places] where thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done [that] which I have spoken to thee of.

And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the "I AM" is in this place; and I knew [it] not. And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful [is] this place! this [is] none other but the house of God, and this [is] the gate of heaven. And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the Stone that he had put [for] his pillows, and set it up [for] a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. And he called the name of that place Bethel (House of God): but the name of that city [was called] Luz at the first. And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the "I AM" be my God: And this Stone, which I have set [for] a pillar, shall be God's house (Bethel): and of all that Thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto Thee. Genesis 28:11-22

The Curse of Tara.

The obscene phallic-stone that now stands on the Inauguration Mound (an Forrad) at The Hill of Tara is wrongfully named the Lia Fail. It's actually the phallic pillar-stone of the ancient pagan Baal religion that stood upon the Hill of Tara when Teia Tephi arrived from Jerusalem in 583 B.C. The Baal-pillar had a golden sun with the horns of Baal on the top of it and was used in the ceremonies and rituals of the satanic Baal religion at that time.

When Teia Tephi arrived at Tara she had the phallic stone removed and buried near where the Mound of the Hostages was later erected. She then replaced the phallic stone with the real Lia Fail Stone, the Stone of Destiny, that she had brought with her from Jerusalem. Also known as Jacob's Pillar, it was the throne upon which are crowned the kings of the people of Israel.

The phallic stone was later recovered from where Teia Tephi had it buried, and it was replaced on the Inauguration Mound at Tara some time between 1839 and 1845. The Lia Fail is God's Throne on which are crowned those who lead the Israelite people, which includes the people of Ireland The stone phallus IS the Curse of Tara

The real Lia Fail stayed in Ireland at the Hill of Tara for over a thousand years after Teia Tephi brought it with her from Jerusalem. All of the kings of Ireland were crowned on the Stone, right up to Muircheartach (Murdoch) son of Earc.

In around 500 A.D. Fergus Mor Mac Earc, his brother, invaded and settled Western Scotland which was previously occupied by the Picts. Fergus wanted to be crowned on the Lia Fail Stone as king of the (Scots) Irish who had migrated to Scotland. Muircheartach loaned the Stone to him for that occasion.

The place where Fergus was crowned after his arrival in Argyll is the hill-top Fort of Dunadd in the Kilmartin valley. On the summit of this fortress of Dunadd is a footprint carved in stone, and next to it a bowl-shaped hollow and the figure of a wild boar. The hollow contained water used in ceremonial bathings; and the figure of the boar probably represented kingly courage and fierceness. Behind the footprint is a place for a stone. While Fergus was being crowned, he sat on the Stone with his foot in the footprint.

Boece in his "Chronicles of Scotland" adds some details:

"Fergus, son of Ferchard (Erc), was first King of the Scots in Scotland, and brought the chair from Ireland to Argyll, and was crowned on it. He built a town in Argyll called Beregonium, in which he placed it. From him proceeded forty kings of Scotland. The twelfth king, Evenus, built a town near Beregonium, called after his name Evonium, now called Dunstaffnage, to which the Stone was removed, and the remainder of the forty kings are all crowned in Dunstaffnage, reign there, and are buried there." (Boethii Scotorum Hist., ed. 1527. Bellenden's Croniklis of the Scots).

When the area had been pacified, Fergus decided to divide the land of Argyll among the people. The people promised faithfully that they would only allow themselves to be governed by the sovereignty of a king in the times ahead. They also promised to have only those of the lineage and blood of Fergus reign over them; and, if they failed in this, they prayed that God would send the same vengeance on them and their posterity as fell on their elders in Egypt And Spain in the past, when they broke the Commandments of God. The Chronicles of Scotland, by Hector Boece. Pg 46.

Shortly thereafter, Fergus built a church at Iona, an island off the western shores of Argyll, and commanded it to be the Sepulchre of the Kings of Scotland from that time forward. Later on his nephew Columba left Ireland and built a monastery there.

After dividing the land up into twelve areas, Fergus left Argyll for Ireland to quell some disturbances that were threatening the peace of the island. While crossing the Irish sea, his ship was caught in a terrible storm and driven upon a rock off the coast of Ireland. There he perished in the raging sea along with all his nobles. This rock is now called Cragfergus in his memory.

Muircheartach Mac Erc, the brother of Fergus; was the last Irish king of Ireland to be crowned upon the Lia Fail, committed adultery and died because of it and the Sovereignty of Israel was overturned from Tara to his brother Fergus "Mor" Mac Erc, at Dunadd, Argyll in Scotland, completing the second overturn of the Bethel Stone Throne of David, the Lia Fail (Stone of Destiny).

"In 843 A.D., Kenneth Mac Alpin was crowned on the Lia Fail Stone as the first King of the United Kingdom of the Picts and the Scots. One of his first acts as King was to found a church at Scone (near Perth, Scotland) because it was there that he had gained his principal victory over the Picts.

"King Kenneth 2nd (d.995 A.D.) had the Stone placed on a wooden pedestal in front of the high altar of the Abbey of Scone.... The ancient Abbey of Scone was destroyed in 1559 A.D. at the time of the Reformation. Today... on Moot Hill (the Hill of Credulity) stands a stone chapel, marking the place where the Stone of Destiny had rested and where the kings of Scotland presided over their Parliaments.

Edward the 1st of England (Edward "Longshanks" in the film Braveheart) invaded Scotland and removed the Stone to England in 1296 A.D. Edward took The Lia Fail to London where it was placed in Westminster Abbey and all of the kings of England right up to and including George the 6th were crowned on The Stone of Destiny.

In Westminster Abbey Edward's Chair, in which the succeeding kings and queens of the realm have been inaugurated, is in height six feet and seven inches, in breadth at the bottom thirty-eight inches, and in depth twenty-four inches; from the seat to the bottom is twenty-five inches; the breadth of the seat within the sides is twenty-eight inches, and the depth eighteen inches. At nine inches from the ground is a board, supported at the four corners with four lions, the symbol of the tribe of Judah. Between the seat and this board is enclosed a stone, commonly called JACOB'S, or The Fatal (Lia Fail) marble stone. History relates that this is the stone whereon Jacob laid his head in the Plains of Luz (Bethel). Genesis 35:6

Some Scots have always maintained that the real Scottish Coronation Stone was a different color and shape and it never left Scotland; but that a fake was foisted on the English soldiers of Edward "Longshanks" by the Abbot of Scone, who knew in advance that Edward's soldiers were coming to take the stone from the Scots.

Using the principle that the simplest answer is usually the right one, the logical conclusion that can be drawn from all of the facts; prophecies and legends is that there were in fact two stones in Scotland; one of which can be called the Stone of Destiny (bluish/purplish steel color with veins of red) and the other the Scottish Regal (black marble).

Some of the ancient chroniclers state that the Scottish Regal Stone was hollowed like a seat or chair, others that it was black; marble; carved; sculptured; that it had an inscription; that it had metal bands around it with metal hooks on all four corners by which to carry it.

There are what appear to be two conflicting stories about the Stone of Destiny and how it came to Scotland at two different times, being brought by two different people by similar but nevertheless two different routes. Most historians have tried to lump these two stories together but like a square peg and a round hole they do not fit. The reason that these two stories do not fit together is because although they are similar in content, they are in fact two totally separate stories about two separate stones* that were used for the same purpose by two separate branches of the same people that historians have tried to make into one and therein lies the cause of the confusion. It had become a common practice for nations to have a special stone or stone chair that they used for coronations.

One story from the Chronicles of Scotland by Hector Boece relates how (in 1300 BC) Gathelus (Gallo) and his wife Scota who married in Egypt; then sojourned in Spain before coming (or their descendants) to Pictland (now Scotland) with the black marble Regal Stone used as the Coronation Stone by the Zarah (Red Lion) branch of Judah.

The other tells how in 583 BC - 700 years after Gathelus and Scota, Jeremiah brought King Zedekiah's daughter Tamar "Teia" (Tea) Tephi and the Stone of Destiny used as the Coronation Stone by the Pharez (Golden Lion) branch of Judah from Jerusalem to Ireland, via Egypt, Gibraltar, Spain and Cornwall and that after more than a thousand years at Tara, it was brought to Dunadd in Western Scotland (the Eastern Dalriada) by Fergus Mor mac Erc in c. 500 AD.

The confusion has come about because people have tried to amalgamate the two stories, instead of realizing that they are about different people and stones (700 years apart). The key to the mystery would be Kenneth MacAlpin who was descended from Teia Tephi from the line of David and Eochaidh mac Duach from the line of Zarah on his patriarchal side and whose mother was a Pict princess. It was he who united the Picts and Scots into one kingdom - the kingdom of Scotland at which point the two Coronation Stones came together at Scone.

Then in 1296 when Edward I "Longshanks" decided to take the Scottish Coronation Stone from Scone, Abbot Thomas kept the Scottish Regal (Gathelus') black marble stone that had been the throne of the Picts and gave the Stone of Destiny to Edward's soldiers, thereby fulfilling the third overturn prophesied by God in Ezekiel 21:27. Abbot Thomas was then still able to crown Robert the Bruce on the Scottish Regal as king of Scotland at Scone in 1306. He was subsequently arrested by Edward; taken to England; imprisoned; kept incommunicado in chains until he died. He never revealed the whereabouts of the Scottish Regal Stone, which was found in 1819 at Dunsinane and reported to have been taken to London.

There are two accounts of this part of the story from the early nineteenth century of a possible original stone at Dinsinnan/Dunsinane, the site of Macbeth's Castle just a few miles from Scone. One account, that has been passed down through generations of the Earls of Mansfield who have possessed the lands at Scone for almost 400 years, is that because of a landslide brought on by torrential rain farm lads discovered a fissure in the rocky hillside, and, on exploration, found themselves in a chamber containing "a slab of stone covered with hieroglyphics and supported by four short stone legs" The second account was reported in the London Morning Chronicle of 2nd of January 1819, telling how, during excavations among the castle ruins, ground collapsed and workmen fell into an underground vault which contained "a large stone weighing about 500 pounds which is pronounced to be of the meteoric or semi-metallic kind". The report goes on to say that the stone was shipped to London for inspection. Nothing has been heard of it since then.

This black marble stone found in 1819 is the Scottish Regal belonging to the Scots, and it should be on display in Edinburgh Castle or Scone Palace, not the Scottish sandstone fake. Baillie Robert Gray of Glasgow made the fake in the 1920's and it was left at Arbroath Abbey. On 11th April 1951, Elizabeth II was crowned upon the fake not the real Bethel Stone of Destiny. That is currently held either by Ian Hamilton or his friends and has been since 25/12/1950 and it belongs in Ireland, at Royal Tarah, from where it was borrowed by Fergus Mor mac Erc, from his brother Muircheartach the king of Tarah, in 500 AD.

It's a well-known fact that as London was being bombed by German Luftwaffe during World War 2, contingency safety plans were written-up to protect The Stone. Not until the 1950's was it revealed that the then Prime Minister of Canada was the only person outside a group numbering no more than 10 men, caretakers of the Relics at Westminister Abbey who knew where The Stone was hidden on the Abbey grounds. NO similar plans had been made to secrete away the Crown Jewels.

The Coronation Chair with the Stone in it was kept for a time in Winchester Cathedral.

In Jacob's Pillar, E. Raymond Capt, Artisan Sales 1977, writes, "Dean Stanley, one-time custodian of the Stone, in his book Memorials of Westminster Abbey, sums up its historical importance in these words:

It is the one primeval monument which binds together the whole Empire. The iron rings, the battered surface, the crack which has all but rent its solid mass asunder, bear witness of the English Monarchy -- an element of poetic, patriarchal, heathen times... carries back our thoughts ... a link which unites the Throne of England to the traditions of Tara and Iona" (2nd Edit. pg. 66). Capt (p. 57).

The final breaking of the Stone would witness the end of the reign of the line of David and the transfer of the sovereignty to Joseph/Ephraim (Genesis 49:10, 22-24).

In appearance the rugged surface of The Stone of Destiny is of a steely dull-purplish color, varying somewhat, and with some reddish veins. It is composed of calcareous sandstone and imbedded in it are a few pebbles; one of quartz and two others of a dark material (porphyrite or andesite?). Its shape is roughly "pillow-like" being about 26" in length; 16" in width, and 10.5" in depth. Across its surface runs a crack and some chisel-marks are still visible on one or two sides. It appears to have been in the process of being prepared for building purposes, but was discarded before being finished.

In preparation for King George VI's coronation, the Stone was temporarily removed from the Coronation Chair, and a photograph was taken of it. This photograph disclosed that a groove runs right across the Stone from ring to ring. From its appearance this groove was not cut, but was clearly the result of friction from a single pole being passed across from ring to ring. Such an indentation and wearing-away of material indicates the enormous amount of carrying that the Stone was subjected to. If, as it appears, a single pole was used, because of the weight of the Stone (458 lbs.) it is probable that more than two persons actually carried The Stone.

Towards the end of December 1950 four young students visited Westminster Abbey with a plan to remove the Coronation Stone and take it back to Scotland. Those months of preparation should have been devoted to removing 458 pounds of sandstone from England to Scotland, especially on Christmas day, proves that at least they knew a great deal more about the Stone than most people. They succeeded in their plan. When the disappearance was discovered, the hue and cry was unprecedented. The practice they had on removing a stone of similar proportions in Glasgow (weighing 336 lbs.) turned out to be of little use for two reasons, (1) the Coronation Stone was heavier by far (122 lbs. heavier), and (2) it was cracked diagonally across the surface, and broke in the course of its removal. Lia Fail Or The Stone Of Destiny - George H. Thompson and Rev. McKelvey - 1977

Ian Hamilton, a Scottish Nationalist, studying law at Glasgow University; not realizing that he was being inspired by God to do it in fulfillment of His Prophecy to Ezekiel; decided something had to be done about recovering The Stone from England, and, when he met Kay Matheson at the Covenant party in October 1950, he found her in a similar frame of mind. He got money from a Glasgow businessman who had been involved in the previous nineteen-thirties attempt to liberate The Stone.

In the early hours of Christmas morning in 1950, the Lia Fail (Stone of Destiny) was removed from Westminster Abbey by four Scottish Nationalists:- Kay Matheson, Ian Hamilton, Gavin Vernon and Alan Stuart, and taken back to Scotland, with the assistance of two new members of the team: Johnny Josselyn and Bill Craig.

Big Ben struck 4 a.m. as Kay Matheson drove the Anglia into a lane at Palace Yard by the Abbey. Ian Hamilton parked the known car on nearby Millbank. She stayed in the car as the others broke into the Abbey near Poets' Corner and made for the Confessor's Chapel. Hamilton laid his coat reverently on the ground to receive the Stone, but it wouldn't budge.* He pulled one of the rings, and suddenly it was sliding towards him as easily as though the hands of angels were helping. To his horror he realized that only part of the sandstone (porphyry) block was attached to the ring.

I examined the Stone carefully. It is a block of rough-hewn sandstone twenty-six and three quarter inches long, by ten and three quarter inches deep, by sixteen and three quarter inches broad. I had not been able to find its weight, but we had reckoned (based upon the practice copy they made) that it would not be more than three hundredweights (the exact weight of their pinkish buff Scottish sandstone copy 336 lbs., made by Bertie Gray now on display in Edinburgh Castle crown room), though we were later to discover to our cost that it was more than four [cwt.] (458 lbs.). On either end a few links of chain terminating in an iron ring . - No Stone Unturned, Ian R. Hamilton (1925), London, Gollancz 1952. page 36, para 3, line 4

"It was a great rough piece of sandstone, as big as a sack of coal, and it weighed more than four hundredweight (448+ lbs.) A Touch of Treason, Ian R. Hamilton, Q.C., Lochar, 1990. page 50 para 2, line 2

So what happened to The real Lia Fail - Stone of Destiny after the Scottish Nationalists removed it from Westminster Abbey, and what is The Stone's final Destiny, from which it got its name?

Thus saith the Lord "I AM"; Remove the diadem (sovereignty), and take off the crown: this [shall] not the same: exalt [him that is] low (Line of Zarah), and abase [him that is] high (Line of Pharez). 21:26

I will overturn (1), overturn (2), overturn (3), it: and it shall be no [more], [overturned] UNTIL he come whose Right it is; and (4) I will give it [him - Shiloh / Christ (Genesis 49 v 10)].

[B]Verse 26 above tells us that The Throne (Lia Fail) will be (was) taken from the Pharez branch (him that was high) of the tribe of Judah in Jerusalem and given to the Zarah branch (him that was low) of the tribe of Judah, who had settled in Ireland.

This happened when king Zedekiah of Jerusalem from the Pharez branch of the tribe of Judah, was overthrown by king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon and princess Teia Tephi, Zedekiah's daughter brought the Lia Fail Stone to Ireland and married Eochaidh Mac Earc/Duach/Dui, the high king of Ireland who was from the Zarah branch of Judah in the sixth century B.C., as shown symbolically on the Ulster Flag.

The above was the first of the four overturns mentioned in verse 27. The second overturn was when the Lia Fail was taken from Ireland to Scotland in c. 500 A.D., overturning the Throne from the kings of Ireland, and the third overturn was when the Throne was removed from the Scots and taken to England in 1296.

God then tells us in the second half of verse 27 that the Throne shall be overturned no more, UNTIL He (Shiloh - Christ) comes whose Right it is; and that He (God) will give it to him (Christ). If we go to Genesis 49:9-10; we are told that the sceptre (sovereignty) will not depart from the line of Judah until Shiloh (Christ) comes (and then it will depart from Judah). In Genesis 49:22-24 we are told that from Joseph's seed (not Judah's) will the Shepherd (Christ) come.

The fourth and final overturn began on Christ-mas Day in 1950 when God inspired and Christ assisted four Scottish Nationalists to remove the real Lia Fail from Westminster Abbey for Him and replace it with the fake (Stone of Scone).

King George 6th knew of this prophecy in Ezekiel 21:27 concerning the British Throne - the Stone of Destiny - and the fourth and final overturn and was vexed and afraid that the loss portended the end of his dynasty, as Ian Hamilton states in his book "The Taking of the Stone of Destiny", Lochar 1991, page 139, "Forty years on" line 8:-

"Privately we learned that he (George 6th) had a superstitious fear that the loss portended the end of his dynasty."

George 6th must have known, as must his daughter Elizabeth, that the stone that was left at Arbroath Abbey on 11th April 1951 was a Scottish sandstone fake, and she must have known, from that, that she was cursed by God and never really crowned.

After George 6th died, Elizabeth Mountbatten delayed her coronation, whilst desperately seeking and hoping to find the genuine Coronation Stone. But when it was not found and she had to hold a coronation ceremony, she flatly refused to have the ceremony televised, because she was afraid that people would see the fake stone, recognize that it was a fake, and know that she was a pretender to the Throne. Mrs. Mountbatten was unable to enforce her will and had her hand forced, by popular-demand, to allow the ceremony to be televised, so she set a firm condition upon the BBC that there must be absolutely no close-up shots, and nothing shown at a closer distance than thirty feet, so that no-one would be able to see a close-up of the fake stone that she knew she was pretending to be crowned upon.

She must also have known the prophecy, as did her great, great grandmother Queen Victoria, who said that if Christ came to take the Throne, she would immediately step down and give it to its rightful owner, and everyone of them knew it down to George 6th. It is unthinkable that George 6th would not also have taught this to his children - that Christ would come one day and rightfully claim the British Throne, in fulfillment of prophecy. Elizabeth must have known that Christ was already here; because the Throne had been removed from her, in fulfillment of prophecy; and that one day during her reign Christ would rightfully claim the Throne.

Elizabeth II who is descended from the royal line of David from the tribe of Judah, was then crowned on that fake stone in 1953, so in actual fact was never officially crowned queen of Britain in the eyes of God; as God Himself prevented her from being, by having the Stone taken from her.

In the Scottish National Library there is a Gaelic manuscript (by Dugald the Scot, son of McPhail, in A.D. 1467) containing the complete genealogies of the Scottish kings, showing their descent through the Irish kings by way of Judah, Jacob-Israel and Isaac back to Abraham.

In Windsor Castle there is also a genealogical table showing the descent of the British kings from David through the Irish and Scottish lines. Thus the Monarchy existed long before there was a British Nation." Capt (p. 55)

One final note:

"One of the most significant facts about the Coronation Stone is that no similar rock formation exists in the British Isles." Professor Totten -- Science, Yale University, after making a thorough examination of the Stone made the following statement: "

The analysis of The Stone shows that there are absolutely no quarries in Scone or Iona where-from a block so constituted could possibly have come, nor yet from Tara.

" The sandstone in Scotland and Ireland is dissimilar to the Stone. Regarding the Stone, "Professor Edward F. Odlum (1850-1935), B.A.; M.A.; B.Sc.; F.R.G.S.; F.A.S.; F.R.C.I., Inst.; F.A.G.S.; a geologist; scientist; educator, and lecturer -- University of Victoria College, Cobourg, (now located in the University of Toronto), Ontario, Canada, was "intrigued with the idea that perhaps its source could be found in Palestine, as suggested by the ancient records of Ireland. Professor Odlum discovered a stratum of sandstone near the Red Sea at Bethel in Palestine geologically the same as the Coronation Stone. British Royal genealogy traces its heritage to all the Royal households throughout Europe from the Spanish Monarchy to the last Royals of Russia and the Danes, Swedes and nearly every monarch in between.

synergy777

30-03-2008, 06:07 PM

http://www.the7thfire.com/queen_tephi/queen_tephi_intro.htm

Tamara Tephi - Queen of Jerusalem, Gibraltar and Ireland

Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and I bare you "on eagles' wings", and brought you unto Myself. Exodus 19:4

Jeremiah was a Prophet during the period that led into the Babylonian Exile and was called to be a prophet in 627 BC. His ministry began during good times for Judah, during the reign of Josiah (640 - 609 BC), and continued through the reigns of Jehoiakin (609 - 597 BC), Jehoiachin (597 BC) and Zedekiah (597 - 587 BC). Jeremiah was sent by God to King Zedekiah of Jerusalem, who had broken God's Covenant, to warn him to return to keeping of the Covenant or else God would send King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to lay siege to and destroy Jerusalem. Zedekiah didn't like Jeremiah's message, and he decided to punish the messenger. Jeremiah was placed in a well that was dark and muddy, but that did not prevent the prophecy from being fulfilled. It only made its fulfillment more certain. Eventually one of Zedekiah's servants persuaded the king to spare Jeremiah.

Nebuchadnezzar sent his army and laid siege to the City of Jerusalem whose inhabitants became so hungry that they ate their own children. The city fell and was burned and Solomon's Temple on Mount Moriah was destroyed. 10,000 of the leaders of Judaea were taken captive and were removed to Babylon to become slaves as punishment for allowing themselves to be misled by their rulers. The ten tribes of the northern Kingdom of Israel had previously been punished by the Assyrians in 722 BCE and were taken into slavery in the same way and for the same purpose--punishment for failing to remain faithful to the I AM and the Covenant.

They never returned to their homes and were referred to as the Lost Tribes of Israel.

Nebuchadnezzar; who was sent by God to punish Zedekiah, honored Jeremiah as God's Prophet, released him from prison and gave him free rein to do as he was commanded by God.

Zedekiah and all of his sons were captured; taken to Babylon* where all of his sons were slain in front of Zedekiah's eyes before he was blinded. He died in prison in Babylon and because he had betrayed God. He had broken the Covenant by causing his people to suffer poverty under his own laws, instead of prosperity under God's Laws in the Covenant of the Torah. Torah means "the Law" and is the collective name for the five books given to Moses at Mt. Horeb in Sinai, for the world, and for the people of Israel.

Jeremiah hid with Zedekiah's three daughters, including Teia Tephi in a cave under The Holy Temple. The Temple had been built by Solomon on the site where Abraham had offered to sacrifice Isaac, his only son, There the Ark of The Covenant was hidden along with Jacob's Pillar, the Bethel / Lia Fail Stone, king David's Throne of Israel. He did this to protect Teia Tephi and the Ark from being found, and so that no-one would know where The Ark was being taken. The Ark of the Covenant is the special box inside which are kept the Torah and the Stone Tablets, on which the Ten Commandments were written.

When Baruch, Jeremiah's scribe (secretary) came and told them that it was safe, Jeremiah took the three princesses with their three handmaidens and his secretary Baruch, and fled with the Ark of the Covenant and Jacob's Pillar Stone, first to Mizpah and then to Tanis in Egypt for safety. {In the movie, "Raiders of the Lost Ark," they say that Tanis is the last-known resting-place of the Ark and that is why they start to look for The Lost Ark in Tanis)

After they arrived in Egypt the Pharaoh adopted Zedekiah's daughters as his own daughters and gave them a palace at Tanis, still called today, "Quasr bint el Jehudi," the Palace of the Daughter of Judah. They stayed for a while until Jeremiah was warned that Nebuchadnezzar was going to attack Egypt and that they must leave.

It is written in Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 46:14 Declare ye in Egypt, and publish in Migdol, and publish in Noph and in Tahpanhes (Tanis): say ye, Stand fast, and prepare thee; for the sword shall devour round about thee.

44:24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the Word of the "I AM", all Judah that [are] in the land of Egypt:

44:25 Thus saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; 'Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

44:26 Therefore hear ye the Word of the "I AM", all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by My great name, saith the "I AM", that My name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord "I AM" Liveth.

44:27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that [are] in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

44:28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah (Judah/Zarah of the "Red Hand" - Genesis 38:28-30* - in Ireland), and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, Mine, or theirs.

44:29 And this [shall be] a sign unto you, saith the "I AM", that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that My words shall surely stand against you for your evil [in worshipping the queen of heaven (verse 25 above)]:

44:30 Thus saith the "I AM"; Behold, I will give Pharaohhophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies, and into the hand of them that seek his life; as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah (Teia Tephi's father) into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, his enemy, and that sought his life.

Teia Tephi's two sisters loved the fleshpots of Egypt more than they loved God and wanted to remain there, so they were slain and did remain in Egypt, as they had desired. Jeremiah's group left Tanis on a moonless cloudy night, sailing in a ship of Tyre, piloted by a Danite (5th tribe of Israel, known to the Irish as the Tuatha de Danaan) called Buchi son of Helek, who was accompanied by his son Boedan, first to Carthage where they arrived three weeks later but did not disembark. At sunset a strong hot wind blew from the desert driving them North and tearing their sails. On the seventh day they entered a little bay by the mouth of an unknown river that ran from east to west; where they dropped anchor.

Drawing lots to see who would go ashore to find out where they were, the lot fell upon Boedan, the pilot's son, who rowed ashore in their skiff. Boedan captured a local and brought him aboard the ship so that Buchi the pilot who spoke all languages could ask him where they were. They found out from him that they were in the Tiber Estuary and he advised them to avoid Rome, both then and throughout the future. Jeremiah made many prophecies about Rome, including about the Roman Crucifixion of Jesus and on up to our day. From there they sailed on between Corsica and Sardinia where Jeremiah prophesied that, in the latter days, Napoleon would unsuccessfully attack Russia.

The Gadite Israelites who had settled there after the Assyrian captivity acknowledged her as its queen. Teia found many of the inhabitants worshipping Melcarth / Neptune and condemned them for their idolatry. There was an idol of Neptune at a shrine to him and the idol held a golden trident in its right hand. Elier the ruler of Gibraltar ordered the trident to be taken from the idol and given to Teia Tephi to go with the Olive-sprig she had brought with her from Jerusalem. During a struggle with the priests to remove the trident, the idol was smashed in two.

They stayed there for five months and both Teia and Jeremiah made many prophecies about the future of Gibraltar, only one of which still remains to be fulfilled. The crew of the Tyrian ship that brought them to Gibraltar were evil and plotted to kill Jeremiah, Teia Tephi and the others, but three months after their arrival the crew's evil plot was discovered and foiled, so they left to return to Egypt.

On their way back to Egypt the Tyrian ship sank and there were no survivors. This explains why nobody knew where the Ark went after it left Tanis or even that it had left. This was confirmed by Baruch who saw a vision of the ship sinking, immediately before his own death, passing away at the age of eighty and being buried at Caer Teia, Gibraltar.

Two months after the Tyrian ship had left Gibraltar and sank, the Gadites' milesian allies helped Jeremiah's party by capturing a Greek vessel, which was then sailed with the aid of Simon, the son of Elier the ruler of Gibraltar, guiding them across the Bay of Algeciras and through the Straits to Breogan in Spain. There he introduced them to Ith Cian, the Israelite ruler who, like the Egyptian pharaoh before him, adopted Teia Tephi as his daughter.

When they left Breogan, heading for Ireland, they got caught in a violent storm that lasted seven days and broke the oars and rudder of their boat, so they could not control the direction of their journey. After being blown North for several days in the storm, they sighted land and the wind of the storm guided their boat right into the bay at Mara-Zion, near St Michael's Mount in Cornwall. This was Divine Providence so that they would not land unannounced and unprotected in Ireland. At Mara-Zion they met Elatha the powerful Israelite ruler of Cornwall, who was a kinsman of Ith Cian of Breogan and an ally of Elier bar Ziza of the Gate (Gibraltar). Elatha welcomed them and had their boat repaired for them. He then sent a message to the high king (Ard ri) of Ireland that Teia Tephi the Queen of Jerusalem and Gibraltar was coming and requested a guarantee of safe-passage for the queen.

When Teia Tephi and Jeremiah informed Elatha of the fall of Jerusalem he wept bitterly, so the name given to that place in Cornwall was and still is Mara-Zion, which is Hebrew not Cornish or English and means "Bitter for Jerusalem". Elatha consulted extensively with Jeremiah and was consoled by the knowledge that all of the Promises God made to His "friend" Abraham would be fulfilled, when Christ would come from the Tribe of Joseph / Ephraim and once again reunite with his kiss all of the twelve tribes of Israel, including the Irish Danites .

The Irish kings on receiving Elatha's message, sent back their reply, a message of welcome and many gifts of gold and silver to Teia Tephi to show her she would be safe and that they all sought her favor and some her hand in marriage. Eochaidh sent his family's most treasured heirloom; a piece of jewelry which is called the "Sun of Helen" (of Troy); that his sires had won as a spoil of war at the Battle of Troy, where his Zarahite ancestors and the Danite Greek ancestors of the Irish people, including Ulysses, had built their famous Trojan horse, that had successfully fooled the Trojans and gained them access to their city.

After receiving their positive answer and invitation, Elatha sent his son Bressail, champion of Nuadh, the king of Ulster, and fifty-three ships, with two thousand and five men, to escort Teia Tephi safely to Ireland. Jeremiah at that point was advised by God to take the Ark of the Covenant in a separate ship and hide. He was warned that there was going to be a rebellion and it was not yet safe to bring the Ark of the Covenant to Tara.

Teia Tephi arrived with the Bethel / Lia Fail Stone and her two handmaidens, at Pen Edair (Binn Eadair - Howth), near Ath Cliath (Dublin), in Ireland on the 18th of June 583 B.C. She was greeted there by Eochaidh, the High king (Ard ri - Heremon) and Ethan, the king's harpist and good friend, between whom she was carried ashore and both instantly fell in love with the queen. Teia Tephi knew only the identity of the harpist (Ethan) and didn't know that the other person carrying her was actually Eochaidh, the High-king, whom she was destined to marry. She stayed that night at the Fort of Crimthann, which was built on the top of Howth Hill.

Eochaidh, who was urgently called away to rescue his sister who had been kidnapped, had, as a child, been given a vision and told that he must not marry, even if he reached middle-age, because one day his queen would come from the East. When he received the message from Elatha that the queen was coming from Jerusalem to live in Ireland he realized that his wait was almost over and his boyhood prophetic-vision was about to become reality.

Teia Tephi was then escorted to Cathair Crofinn (The Hill of Tara), where she arrived on the 20th of June in 583 B.C. and was escorted to the house that had already been prepared for her (Rath Grainne - Fort of the Seed). There, over the door the Druids had written 'Jerusalem' in Hebrew.

At Tara, there were a number of priests of the satanic Baal-religion who had erected a phallic-pillarstone as part of their worship of the mythical gods of pagan Baal fertility. Teia Tephi had brought with her The Torah or God's Laws, which state that worshipping false gods and making graven images of these, or anything else, is strictly prohibited and carries the death penalty (Second Commandment), so she ordered that the obscene stone phallus be removed immediately and the Bethel Stone / Lia Fail (God's Throne of Israel) be put in its place on the Forrad (Inauguration Mound).

The next day Teia Tephi was taken to Cathair Crofinn (now known as the Hill of Tara) where she married Eochaidh, the high king of Ireland, and they gave their pledges of marriage over the Lia Fail Stone (Jacob's Pillar - The Stone of Destiny) that Teia Tephi had brought with her from Jerusalem. She then stood upon the Lia Fail Stone and was acknowledged Queen of all Ireland and Eochaidh as Ard ri.

As Eochaidh was from the Zarah (the 'Red Hand') branch and Teia Tephi was from the line of David of the Pharez branch of Judah, their marriage-union sealed the "breach" caused centuries earlier when Judah's twin sons had been born. This marriage-union, that took place at "Rath na ri" (the Fort of the Kings) at Tara, in Royal Meath, is symbolized on the Ulster flag, where the 'Red Hand' of Zarah is mounted upon the 'Star of David' under the single Royal Crown, symbolizing the union of the two royal lines, that had sprung from Judah.

After Tephi was inaugurated as queen of all Ireland, the people complained to her about Bressail, the son of Elatha of Cornwall, so she arranged an election in which he was removed as regent. His laws and taxes were then abolished and the Torah put in their place. A number of kings and warlords in the already divided and war-torn country of Ireland joined Bressail in rebellion against Tephi, because under the Torah that she brought they would have to give back all the wealth that they had unjustly stolen from the people under their laws and taxes. In a huge battle all of the rebel kings, warlords and their armies led by Bressail fought against Teia Tephi and her out-numbered army. As Teia Tephi was fighting for God and His Laws, her army defeated all of the rebels in the battle at Slane, called the Battle of Unna (Destruction), which commenced on 31st October of 583 B.C. and lasted for four days.

After the Battle of Unna, in which a huge force of Baal-worshippers were defeated, peace was finally brought to Ireland because the Torah was fully instituted as national law. The people began to deify their Queen for the miraculous victory. To try to prevent this blasphemous deification, already begun while she was still alive, Teia Tephi told the Irish people to hold "Funeral Games" every year on the anniversary of her death. The Funeral Games held near her palace at Teltown, close to Kells were intended to prove that she was human, not a goddess, and to help teach the children to behave. Rewards were given to those who upheld the Laws of the Torah and were the most humble. (She died on the Calends of August, the first day of August.) These games had special rules based on The Torah to commemorate and remember her and the Torah (God's Law). The people were to keep only God's Law as He commanded His people Israel (Deuteronomy 4:2; 17:14-20). This was intended to prevent her descendants and others from making-up their own laws and the people thereby returning to poverty, division, strife and war. These "Funeral Games" were referred to by the sixteenth century French Prophet Nostradamus, in code, as the "Hecatombe Games", in his Quatrain 10,74.

Legend has it that Jeremiah landed at Carrickfergus in Northern Ireland and brought the Ark across country to Tara in Royal Meath. Once the Ark was safely sealed in Teia Tephi's future tomb, Jeremiah's mission for God was complete and he died on the 21st of September in 581 B.C. He was buried in what is now called Cairn T at the Loughcrew Hills graveyard. Depicted in hieroglyphics on the second stone on the left as you enter Cairn T is the journey Jeremiah made from Jerusalem to Ireland. The hieroglyphics, or sacred tymboglyphics as Sir William Wilde called them, also show astronomical data from which the date of Jeremiah's death, as well as the date of the Lunar Eclipse that occurred just before the Battle of Unna was fought, can be calculated

Teia Tephi and Eochaidh had a palace built at Teltown, near Kells, where they lived and where Teia Tephi wrote her amazing autobiography, "The Book of Tephi, Queen of Tara and Gibraltar." Tephi and Eochaidh had four children, her firstborn son, Aedh, died as a teen-ager and was buried in the Mound of The Hostages at Tara. In 1955 the Irish archaeologist Sean P. O'Riordhain found Aedh's skeleton, still wearing Egyptian beads that had been given to his mother Teia Tephi, by Pharaoh Hophra, when he adopted Tephi as his own daughter during her stay in Egypt, before she came to Ireland to be its queen. A special subterranean tomb was constructed beneath the Mound of The Hostages and Teia Tephi was buried in it, when she died, along with a number of extremely significant artifacts including David's Harp, which features as the Irish people's national emblem, and probably the Ark of The Covenant.

The Lia Fail Stone that Teia Tephi brought with her from Jerusalem stayed in Ireland, on the Forrad (Inauguration Mound), at Tara, for more than a thousand years and all of the Irish kings were crowned upon the Stone up to c. 500 A.D.

It was then loaned to Fergus, the brother of Muircheartach (Murdoch) king of Ireland, who had emigrated to Scotland and wanted to be crowned king of the Irish who had settled there and had become Scottish.

The Stone was not returned to Tara and stayed in Scotland. There it was called the "Stone of Destiny" (English for Lia Fail) and all of the Scottish kings were crowned upon it, until 1296 A.D. Then Edward the First of England, "Longshanks", invaded Scotland, defeated the Scots and took the Stone from Scone Abbey near Perth to London. From that time forward all of the English kings were subsequently crowned in Westminster Abbey upon the Stone of Destiny, up to, and including, George the Sixth, father of the current queen, Elizabeth II.

In 1950 four Scottish Nationalists removed the Stone from Westminster Abbey; took it back to Scotland and a fake stone called the Stone of Scone was later placed at Arbroath and from there taken to London. It was this same fake stone that Elizabeth the Second was crowned upon in 1953, so in actual fact, she has never really officially been crowned queen of the British people in the eyes of God.

All of the Irish; Scottish and English monarchs after 583 B.C., including Elizabeth the Second, are descended from Eochaidh and Teia Tephi of the line of David from the tribe of Judah. The Stone was taken in 1950 from the House of Windsor from the line of David in fulfillment of God's Prophecies in The Bible Book of Genesis chapter 49:10 -

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah (the line of David), nor a law-giver from between his feet, until Shiloh (Christ) comes"

Then it will depart from Judah to the line of Joseph. That is its destiny, preordained by God and that is why, since it was first removed from Bethel by the Israelites and carried through the wilderness on a pole for forty years with Moses, it has always been known as the Stone of Destiny. Ireland, is known as Inis Fail, meaning, the Island of Destiny. Amazing significance is that, at the beginning of chapter 31 of her Book, Teia Tephi prophesied that the last overturn of the Throne, to Christ, would happen on the 2,484th anniversary of her death, in 534 B.C., which coincides perfectly with 1950 when four brave Scottish Nationalists removed the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey and deprived Elizabeth II a divine coronation.

The word Brit-ish is Hebrew not English and it means "the People of The Covenant"

The tribe of Joseph is, in fact, divided into two:- Ephraim and Manasseh. Joseph had two sons called Ephraim and Manasseh who, today, are the English and Americans respectively. Abraham, Joseph's great grandad, was told by God that, "in Isaac shall your seed be called" (Genesis 21 v 12). Isaac's sons - Saac's sons - Saxons. The British/English and the Americans are Anglo-Saxons.

Teia Tephi also stated, in her Book of Tephi: Queen of Tara and Gibraltar, that the Gadite Israelite people of Gibraltar; referred to by Jeoffry Keating, in his General History of Ireland, as Gadelians (the Eighth tribe of Israel - Gad was the eighth of Jacob/Israel's twelve sons) traded with the people of the "outer deep" in many things, including apes, and archaeologists have found the remains of a Barbary Ape, which is native to Gibraltar, at Navan Fort and have dated it to the Iron-Age, which is the period of Queen Teia Tephi.

synergy777

01-04-2008, 01:16 AM

phildee3

01-04-2008, 05:18 PM

i think, that there could be a connection betweeen kalki/krishna/michael/arthur-archetypes and tara/torah, and the star aldebaran

i believe with rational analysis, that the dreams i had of michael, kalki, aldebaran, tara etc were not random.

the first one was in 1999, when i didn';t even know what aldebaran/tara/kalki was.

thus i think the star sirius and aldebaran are important. in the middle of these two stars is the constellation orion. to the right of aldebaran is the constellation of pleiades. all these are featured throughout ancient cultures. these directions are for the northern hemipshere, which is where i reside/england.

tell me what you think please.

Michael has been closely identified with KRSNA/Christ.
His spear represents a shaft of heavenly light coming to earth - and the redemption of the world.
In corresponds, in Celtic cosmology, with the spear of Lugh - whose name has an obvious etymological link with Lucifer, the light bearer (before his fall!), and luminous/illuminate.

Arthur is a Christ type with his twelve followers serving mankind.
The Big Dipper/Great Bear is also known as Arthur's Wain (ie. chariot) which revolves around the celestial pole - Ygdrassil - the world tree.

It's all connected, bro!

synergy777

01-04-2008, 05:58 PM

krishna = jerusalem = hill of tara

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7428

from the thread

http://www.viewzone.com/davidkoresh.html

India's God Krishna Was the King of Jerusalem!
By Gene D. Matlock

What a strange world in which we live! The Catholic Church has always known that Christianity did not begin with Jesus Christ, but yet it tries to make us think it did.

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."

Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 AD) said: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."

In Anacalypsis, The 17th century British orientalist and iconoclast, Godfrey Higgins, insisted that Christianity was already firmly in place in both the West and the East, many centuries before Jesus Christ was born. He said, The Crestians or Christians of the West probably descended directly from the Buddhists, rather than from the Brahmins. (Vol. 2, pp 438, 439.)

The existence of the Christians both in Europe and India, (existed) long anterior to the Christian era... (Vol 2, p. 202.) I think the most blind and credulous of devotees must allow that we have the existence of the Cristna of the Brahmins in Thrace, many hundred years before the Christian era-the birth of Jesus Christ. (Book X, p. 593.)

"Melito (a Christian bishop of Sardis) in the year 170, claims the patronage of the emperor, for the now so-called Christian religion, which he calls "our philosophy," on account of its high antiquity, has having been imported from countries lying beyond the limits of the Roman empire, in the region of his ancestor Augustus, who found the importation ominous of good fortune to his government." This is an absolute demonstration that Christianity did not originate in Judea, which was a Roman province, but really was an exotic oriental fable, imported from India, and that Paul was doing as he claimed, viz: preaching a God manifest in the flesh who had been "believed in the world" centuries before his time, and a doctrine which had already been preached "unto every creature under heaven." (Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions; T. W. Doane, p. 409.)

Religious historians have for hundreds of years struggled to find out how and why the stories about Jesus and Krishna, who were born 2,000 years apart, are so nearly identical.

-------------------------------

thus we have krishna/buddha/yashuah/kalki versus the brahmins/priesthood/lingha-pahallic-obelisk death cult, thus the priesthood has always been against the messengers who spoke of equality. wheras the clergy have lied to prerserve their elitest class/caste and their eugenics/master race.

the vedic priesthood like the jewish/christian/muslim priesthood has always took oral law eg talmud etc over the divine truth.

also ask yourself why the corrupt priesthood who follow their own perverted/corrupt version of religion believed hitler to be kalki? why would germans/aryans and indians/aryans be in cahoots

personally its kalki who will destroy the priesthood/elite, not support them, but to anihilate their evil elitest doctrines which are luciferian and not from the source/father-mother.

i think kalki could be indian/aryan, thus the brahmins cannot argue with him, as his lineage will the one which connects indians with africans, and indians with romany, indians with europeans/celts/anglo saxons/latin etc. he will be the living link, the man to unite all his brothers and sisters across the globe.

they know this and i know this.

i have tried to and personally think proved, with the great work of authors both old and contemporry, that we are all united. i have done the celts/anglos saxons/latin links, i have done the african links, i have done the romany, i have shown connections to the jews, the palestinian/middle east/arabs. the connections to the americas, orientals and australisians/polynesians etc. all nationalties/cultures are related if you see beyond the lies of the elite.

so if kalki is outthere, bro, step up.

1love/peace

synergy777

02-04-2008, 12:16 AM

Receiving Soul Guidance
by Ray Hix

Can I Trust This?

When we receive inner guidance, most people want to know if the guidance is right or wrong, accurate or not accurate. Actually, there are three possible ways to hear communication from your soul. I will briefly describe these three ways, and offer some sign posts on how to recognize each of the modes. I'll also recommend how to respond to each...

1 Matter-of-Fact Guidance

This is a literal, right-on answer. Your soul wants you to do or know what it is telling you. The usual feeling with this kind of answer is an inner sense of Yes. This feels right. In this case, follow the guidance you get...

2 Coaching For Positioning

This kind of communication is not so much that your soul really wants you to do what they tell you to, but rather your soul wants you in the position you will be in when you engage in doing what they tell you to do. The usual feeling with this kind of answer is one of puzzlement and possibility. In this case, it is also best to follow the guidance you get. Doing so both builds trust between you and your soul, and also brings you to the place your soul wants to bring you...

3 Something is Off With This

The guidance may be distorted or filtered (by you or someone channeling for you) and you are not receiving the most empowering answer...

A. It could be bad timing. You might not be ready to hear it...

B. The communication could be wrong, mistaken or too distorted to be useful...

C. You might not be ready for this particular shift, and therefore, unable to hear...

In this case, part or all of you will not feel aligned with the guidance. It may feel like it doesn't resonate as truth for you. In this case, trust your intuition and just go for what you're ready for. Have it be OK if you can't resonate with it. You don't have to make yourself wrong, and you don't have to make the person that channeled for you wrong. Just let it go, and trust that you'll be given what you need, moment by moment...

Do I Have To?

You always have free will as to whether you accept the guidance or not. Even if it's perfectly right on, you have free choice, and you're not "wrong" if you choose to not follow the guidance. In my experience, the times I decide not to follow the guidance, I usually wish I had. The experience makes me much more willing to trust the guidance and follow it next time.

However, the "rebellion," the not following the guidance, is an important part of the path. It lets you know that you have a choice, that it's not somebody's will forced upon you that you must surrender to. Rather, it's a wisdom you can utilize. If you're feeling like you "have to go along with this will from a greater authority than you," your resentment can dampen your spirit and impede your path. When you can choose it as "wisdom you can utilize," you'll get more out of it...

It's not a question of being right or wrong, it's a question of what's the most empowering to you at the moment. There may be times when your need to feel your own validity, where your choice as a personality is just as important as the recommendation your soul or guides would make to you. In that case, having the freedom to go for what you want is more empowering than resentfully following guidance.

It's only when you can completely own the guidance as "there to serve you" that it really empowers you...

synergy777

02-04-2008, 12:33 AM

phildee3

02-04-2008, 08:54 AM

does this soul guidance relate to lucid and pre cog dreams and synchroncity?

Yes, definately.

i had dreams about places, connections, etc of things i have never seen or read before, then later i see them, read about and make connections, its puzzling me and i see it as coincidence and a curse.

It is a blessing, not a curse.
It is left brain interference which is confusing you. You allow it to because you are wrongly considering its processes to be superior to your right brain processes.

i am more of a science person than a spiritual person, thus i find it disturbing/irrational, the frequency of predictions/connections is becoming increasingly accurate.

Spiritual truth is "irrational."

Don't let it disturb you.

Rationality is only for dealing with the mundane, temporal world.

octopusrex

02-04-2008, 03:53 PM

does this soul guidance relate to lucid and pre cog dreams and synchroncity?

i had dreams about places, connections, etc of things i have never seen or read before, then later i see them, read about and make connections, its puzzling me and i see it as coincidence and a curse.

is it delusion, right brain interference, claridad/david shayler syndrome?

i am more of a science person than a spiritual person, thus i find it disturbing/irrational, the frequency of predictions/connections is becoming increasingly accurate.

i have no control over it, i have tried to ignore it, but its futile.

do any of you have an answer?

Dreaming is the art of the Shaman. In dreams, you can kill, heal, travel... Time is of no consequence in dreams. The first thing is you need to realize you are dreaming. Then you need to focus you attention to "work" inside the dream.

Almost every dream I had has become reality. There's still a few places I havent visited yet, some in Japan. But if I dream it, I will live it, that for sure.

synergy777

02-04-2008, 04:35 PM

Almost every dream I had has become reality. There's still a few places I havent visited yet, some in Japan. But if I dream it, I will live it, that for sure.

thats the puzzling thing, its not rational to dream of things before you see, hear them etc, it defies logic.

the thing is the dreams when i have seen things is when the dreams have led me, controlled me eg tara, aldebaran, pre cog. its always as if someone is forcing me to see, note these things down. so i wake up, write them down and then, things happen.

the time i control them, the best thing was on easter night, like is said, the yoga posture flying , the water/river bank, the sand/soil tilok mark.

also as im a dosser/undiciplined, when i control my dreams, i never do anything consturtive, i just mess about and fly/surf, make hills, mountains, buildings. etc. most of the imes i just fly about, trying to do loop the loops, fly around buildings, lol

i never do anything constructive, so i guess its good i have the guided dreams, as if i had my way, i would just mess about all the time.

octopusrex

02-04-2008, 07:09 PM

thats the puzzling thing, its not rational to dream of things before you see, hear them etc, it defies logic.

the thing is the dreams when i have seen things is when the dreams have led me, controlled me eg tara, aldebaran, pre cog. its always as if someone is forcing me to see, note these things down. so i wake up, write them down and then, things happen.

the time i control them, the best thing was on easter night, like is said, the yoga posture flying , the water/river bank, the sand/soil tilok mark.

also as im a dosser/undiciplined, when i control my dreams, i never do anything consturtive, i just mess about and fly/surf, make hills, mountains, buildings. etc. most of the imes i just fly about, trying to do loop the loops, fly around buildings, lol

i never do anything constructive, so i guess its good i have the guided dreams, as if i had my way, i would just mess about all the time.

Do come on down to Mexico, eat some shrooms.. See if someone gives you some San Pedro. Lets talk face to face.

synergy777

02-04-2008, 10:19 PM

i am not lying about my dreams, in fact i have tried to analyse them rationally to no avail.

synergy777

02-04-2008, 11:51 PM

RELAX AND FLOAT -

Faith is a state of openness or trust. To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don't grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax and float. The attitude of faith is the very opposite of clinging to belief, of holding on. In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe, becomes a person who has no faith at all. Instead they are holding tight. But the attitude of faith is to let go and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be.

- Alan Watts

phildee3

03-04-2008, 10:17 AM

i am not lying about my dreams, in fact i have tried to analyse them rationally to no avail.

I've told you, bro. You won't be able to.
These are visionary dreams.
They are visions of things that are ocurring in the spiritual realm.
Left brain rationality does not apply.
By applying right brain intuition, you should be able to comprehend them.

phildee3

03-04-2008, 10:18 AM

synergy777

23-04-2008, 03:39 PM

http://www.rense.com/general81/jhistory.htm

Jewish History & Myth
'The Lion and the Gazelle'
By Uri Avnery Gush Shalom
4-20-8

Most interesting article written by a prominent Israeli peace activist, journalist and former member of the Israeli Knesset. He discusses the role of myth and the bible and how it relates to Jewish and Israeli history.

--Ed Corrigan

___________

TONIGHT THE JEWS all over the world will celebrate the Seder, the unique ceremony that unites Jews everywhere in the defining Jewish myth: the Exodus from Egypt.

Every year I marvel again at the genius of this ceremony. It unites the whole family, and everyone - from the venerable grandfather to the smallest child - has a role in it. It engages all the senses: seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching. The simplistic text of the Haggadah, the book which is read aloud, the symbolic food, the four glasses of wine, the singing together, the exact repetition of every part every year - all these imprint on the consciousness of a child from the earliest age an ineradicable memory that they will carry with them to the grave, be they religious or not. They will never forget the security and warmth of the large family around the Seder table, and even in old age they will recall it with nostalgia. A cynic might see it as a perfect example of brain-washing.

Compared to the power of this myth, does it really matter that the Exodus from Egypt never took place? Thousands of Egyptian documents deciphered in recent years leave no room for doubt: the exodus of masses of people, as described in the Bible, or anything remotely like it, just never happened. These documents, which cover in the finest detail every period and every part of Canaan during this epoch prove beyond any doubt that there was no "Conquest of Canaan" and no kingdom of David and Solomon. For a hundred years, Zionist archeologists have devoted tireless efforts to finding even a single piece of evidence to support the Biblical narrative, all to no avail.

But this is quite unimportant. In the competition between "objective" history and myth, the myth that suits our needs will always win, and win big. It is not important what was, the important thing is what fires our imagination. That is what guides our steps to this day.

THE BIBLICAL narrative connects up with documented history only around the year 853 BC, when ten thousand soldiers and 2000 battle chariots of Ahab, King of Israel, took part in a grand coalition of the kingdoms of Syria and Palestine against Assyria. The battle, which was documented by the Assyrians, was fought at Qarqar in Syria. The Assyrian army was delayed, if not defeated.

(A personal note: I am not a historian, but for many years I have reflected on our history and tried to draw some logical conclusions, which are outlined here. Most of them are supported by the emerging consensus of independent scholars around the world.)

The kingdoms of Israel and Judea, which occupied a part of the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan, were no different from the other kingdoms of the region. Even according to the Bible itself, the people sacrificed to various pagan deities "on every high hill and under every green tree". (1 Kings 14:23).

Jerusalem was a tiny market town, much too small and much too poor for any of the things described in the Bible to have taken place there at the time. In the books of the Bible that deal with that period, the appellation "Jew" (Yehudi in Hebrew) hardly appears at all, and where it does, it clearly refers simply to an inhabitant of Judea, the area around Jerusalem. When an Assyrian general was asked "talk not with us in the Jewish language" (2 Kings 18:26), what was meant was the local Judean dialect of Hebrew.

The "Jewish" revolution took place in the Babylonian exile (587-539 BC). After the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem, members of the Judean elite were exiled to Babylon, where they came into contact with the important cultural streams of the time. The result was one of the great creations of mankind: the Jewish religion.

After some fifty years, some of the exiles returned to Palestine. They brought with them the name "Jews", the appellation of a religious-ideological-political movement, much like the "Zionists" of our time. Therefore, one can speak of "Judaism" and "Jews" - in the sense accepted now - only from then on. During the following 500 years, the Jewish monotheistic religion gradually crystallized. Also at this time, the most outstanding literary creation of all times, the Hebrew Bible, was composed. The writers of the Bible did not intend to write "history", in the sense understood today, but rather a religious, edifying and instructive text.

TO UNDERSTAND the birth and development of Judaism, one must consider two important facts:

(a) Right from the beginning, when the "Jews" came back from Babylon, the Jewish community in this country was a minority among the Jews as a whole. Throughout the period of the "Second Temple", the majority of Jews lived abroad, in the areas known today as Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Cyprus, Italy, Spain and so on.

The Jews of that period were not a "nation" - the very idea did not yet exist. The Jews of Palestine did not participate in the rebellions of the Jews in Libya and Cyprus against the Romans, and the Jews abroad took no part in the Great Revolt of the Jews in this country. The Maccabees were not national but religious fighters, rather like the Taliban in our days, and killed many more "Hellenized" Jews than enemy soldiers.

(b) This Jewish Diaspora was not a unique phenomenon. On the contrary, at that time it was the norm. Notions like "nation" belong to the modern world. During the period of the "Second Temple" and later on, the dominant social-political pattern was a religious-political community enjoying self-government and not attached to any specific territory. A Jew in Alexandria could marry a Jewess in Damascus, but not the Christian woman across the street. She, on her part, could marry a Christian man in Rome, but not her Hellenist neighbor. The Jewish Diaspora was only one of many such communities.

This social pattern was preserved in the Byzantine Empire, was later taken over by the Ottoman Empire and can still be detected in Israeli law. Today, a Muslim Israeli cannot marry a Jewish Israeli, a Druze cannot marry a Christian (at least not in Israel itself). The Druze, by the way, are a surviving example of such a Diaspora.

The Jews were unique only in one respect: after the European peoples gradually moved on to new forms of organization, and in the end turned themselves into nations, the Jews remained what they were - a communal-religious Diaspora.

THE PUZZLE that is occupying the historians is: how did a tiny community of Babylonian exiles turn into a worldwide Diaspora of millions? There is only one convincing answer to that: conversion.

The modern Jewish myth has it that almost all the Jews are descendents of the Jewish community that lived in Palestine 2000 years ago and was driven out by the Romans in the year 70 AD. That is, of course, baseless. The "Expulsion from the Country" is a religious myth: God was angry with the Jews because of their sins and exiled them from His country. But the Romans were not in the habit of moving populations, and there is clear evidence that a great part of the Jewish population in the country remained here after the Zealots' Revolt and after the Bar-Kochba uprising, and that most Jews lived outside the country long before that.

At the time of the Second Temple and later, Judaism was a proselytizing religion /par excellence/. During the first centuries AD it fiercely competed with Christianity. While the slaves and other downtrodden people in the Roman Empire were more attracted to the Christian religion, with its moving human story, the upper classes tended towards Judaism. Throughout the Empire, large numbers adopted the Jewish religion.

Especially puzzling is the origin of "Ashkenazi" Jewry. At the end of the first millennium there appeared in Europe - apparently out of nowhere - a very large Jewish population, the existence of which was not documented before. Where did they come from?

There are several theories about that. The conventional one holds that the Jews wandered from the Mediterranean area to the North, settled in the Rhein valley and fled from the pogroms there to Poland, at the time the most liberal country in Europe. From there they dispersed into Russia and Ukraine, taking with them a German dialect that became Yiddish. The Tel Aviv University scholar Paul Wexler asserts, on the other hand, that Yiddish was originally not a German but a Slavic language. A large part of Ashkenazi Jewry, according to this theory, are descendents of the Sorbs, a Slavic people that lived in Eastern Germany and was forced to abandon its ancient pagan creed. Many of them preferred to become Jews, rather than Christians.

In a recent book with the provocative title "When and How the Jewish People was Invented", the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand argues - like Arthur Koestler and others before him - that most of the Ashkenazi Jews are really descended from the Khazars, a Turkic people that created a large kingdom in what is now South Russia more than a thousand years ago. The Khazar king converted to Judaism, and according to this theory the Jews of Eastern Europe are mostly the descendants of Khazar converts. Sand also believes that most Sephardi Jews are descendents of Arab and Berber tribes in North Africa that had converted to Judaism instead of becoming Muslims, and had joined in the Muslim conquest of Spain.

When Jewry stopped proselytizing, the Jews became a closed, ethnic-religious community (as the Talmud says: "Converts are hard for Israel like a skin disease").

But the historical truth, whatever it is, is not so important. Myth is stronger than truth, and it says that the Jews were expelled from this land. This is an essential layer in modern Jewish consciousness, and no academic research can shake it.

IN THE LAST 300 years, Europe turned "national". The modern nation replaced earlier social patterns, such as the city state, feudal society and the dynastic empire. The national idea carried all before it, including history. Each of these new nations shaped an "imagined history" for itself. In other words, every nation rearranged ancient myths and historical facts in order to shape a "national history" which proclaims its importance and serves as a unifying glue.

The Jewish Diaspora, which - as mentioned before - was "normal" 2000 years ago, became "abnormal" and exceptional. This intensified the Jew-hatred that was anyhow rampant in Christian Europe. Since all the national movements in Europe were - more or less - anti-Semitic, many Jews felt that they were left "outside", that they had no place in the new Europe. Some of them decided that the Jews must conform to the new /Zeitgeist/ and turn the Jewish community into a Jewish "nation".

For that purpose, it was necessary to reshape and reinvent Jewish history and turn it from the annals of a religious-ethnic Diaspora into the epic story of a "nation". The job was undertaken by a man who can be considered the godfather of the Zionist idea: Heinrich Graetz, a German Jew who was influenced by German nationalism and created a "national" Jewish history. His ideas have shaped Jewish consciousness to this day.

Graetz accepted the Bible as if it were a history book, collected all the myths and created a complete and continuous historical narrative: the period of the Fathers, the Exodus from Egypt, the Conquest of Canaan, the "First Temple", the Babylonian Exile, the "Second Temple", the Destruction of the Temple and the Exile. That is the history that all of us learned in school, the foundation upon which Zionism was built.

ZIONISM REPRESENTED a revolution in many fields, but its mental revolution was incomplete. Its ideology turned the Jewish community into a Jewish people, and the Jewish people into a Jewish nation - but never clearly defined the differences. In order to win over the religiously inclined Jewish masses in Eastern Europe, it made a compromise with religion and mixed all terms into a one big cocktail - the religion is also a nation, the nation is also a religion, and later asserted that Israel is a "Jewish state" that belongs to its (Jewish?) citizens but also to the "Jewish people" throughout the world. Official Israeli doctrine has it that Israel is the "Jewish nation state", but Israeli law narrowly defines a "Jew" as only a person who belongs to the Jewish religion.

Herzl and his successors were not courageous enough to do what Mustafa Kemal Ataturk did when he founded modern Turkey: he fixed a clear and sharp border between the Turkish nation and Islamic religion and imposed a complete separation between the two. With us, everything remained one big salad. This has many implications in real life.

For example: if Israel is the state of the "Jewish people", as one of our laws says - what is there to stop an Israeli Jew from joining the Jewish community in California or Australia? Small wonder that there is almost no leader in Israel whose children have not emigrated.

WHY IS IT so important to differentiate between the Israeli nation and the Jewish Diaspora? One of the reasons is that a nation has a different attitude to itself and towards others than a religious-ethnic Diaspora.

Similarly: different animals have different ways of reacting to danger. A gazelle flees when it senses danger, and nature has equipped it with the necessary instincts and physical capabilities. A lion, on the other side, sticks to its territory and defends it against intruders. Both methods are successful, otherwise there would be no gazelles or no lions in the world.

The Jewish Diaspora developed an efficient response that was well suited to its situation: when Jews sensed danger, they fled and dispersed. That's why the Jewish Diaspora managed to survive innumerable persecutions, and even the Holocaust itself. When the Zionists decided to become a nation - and indeed did create a real nation in this country - they adopted the national response: to defend themselves and attack the sources of danger. One cannot, therefore, be a Diaspora and a nation, a gazelle and a lion, at the same time.

If we, the Israelis, want to consolidate our nation, we have to free ourselves from the myths that belong to another form of existence and re-define our national history. The story about the exodus from Egypt is good as a myth and an allegory - it celebrates the value of freedom - but we must recognize the difference between myth and history, between religion and nation, between a Diaspora and a state, in order to find our place in the region in which we live and develop a normal relationship with the neighboring peoples.

synergy777

23-04-2008, 03:41 PM

http://www.crystalinks.com/tara.html

Tara or Arya Tara, also known as Jetsun Dolma, is a female Bodhisattva typically associated with Tibetan Buddhism. She is the "mother of liberation", and represents the virtues of success in work and achievements.

Tara is actually the generic name for a set of Bodhisattvas of similar aspect. These may more properly be understood as different aspects of the same quality, as Bodhisattvas are often considered metaphoric for Buddhist virtues. As Mahatara, Great Tara, she is the supreme creatrix and mother of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.

Tara is the Feminine Goddess Archetype in Hindu Mythology. Tara governs the Underworld, the Earth and the Heavens, birth, death and regeneration, love and war, the seasons, all that lives and grows, the Moon cycles - Luna - feminine - creation. Typically Tara is seen as a slender and beautiful woman of white complexion, long golden hair and blue eyes.

Her animals are the sow, mare, owl and raven.

She is the most popular figure in the Tibetan pantheon of deities, the beautiful goddess Tara, (pronounced tah' rah) whose name in means 'Star' - originated in Indian Hinduism as the Mother Creator, and her many representations spread from Ireland to Indonesia under many different names.

In later Hindu scriptures, she is depicted as one of the eight major aspects of the Divine Feminine Principle, a loving manifestation in contrast to the fiercesome Kali. Like a star that perpetually consumes its own energy, Tara represents the never-ending desires that fuel all life.

Adopted by Buddhism from Hinduism by the 3rd century B.C. , Tara appears in Buddhism, Jainism, and particularly, Tibetan Lamaism, as a complex array of manifestations: goddess of ascetism and mysticism, mother creator, protectress of all humans as they cross the sea of life.

Polynesian Mythology: Tara is a beautiful sea goddess

Latin: Terra, Mother Earth

Druids: called their mother goddess Tara.

Finland: An ancient legend speaks of Tar, the Women of Wisdom.

South America: indigenous tribe in the jungle call to their goddess, Tarahumara.

Native American: Cheyenne people tell of a Star Woman who fell from the heavens to the Earth. Out of her body all essential food grew. She sent her people to mate with the more primitive inhabitants of Earth, thereby giving them the capacity for wisdom.

more at the link

synergy777

23-04-2008, 04:12 PM

http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/seapeopl.htm

THE SEA PEOPLES

All at once, they were on the move, scattered in war. They laid their hands upon the lands to the very circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting; Our plans will succeed... " (Ramesses III).

The name "Peoples of the Sea" comes directly from the Egyptian records, describing the Sea Peoples' exploits. As their collective name tells us, they were tribes who had developed a life style almost totally dependent upon the sea. They perfected boats, sailing and navigational techniques for fishing offshore as well as long distance travel and explored much of the Atlantic ocean. They invented or improved the easily constructed leather boats (coracle) by discovering that oak-tanned hides would keep their shape and usefulness when used in contact with salt water and to keep their boats sea-worthy, even after many days at sea. It appears that all the Sea Peoples adhered to the ancient religion of the one Great Goddess. Close contact was maintained by boat between these tribes trading goods and to standardize their religion, universal language, traditions and oral history. As all the Sea Peoples were actively involved in exploring the Mediterranean, Black Sea and Atlantic, the people keeping up the contacts must have heard fascinating tales of daring deeds, strange discoveries, amazing experiences and also of enormous hardships and loss of life. All these legendary tales are now irretrievably lost. (See Nyland (2001) for more details)

It appears that, as a result of the conquering of Crete by the aggressive Achaian pirates from the Greek mainland in about 1,400 bce., the Sea Peoples realized that their way of life, religion and their very existence was threatened by the new cult of the cruel sky gods of the Near East. The tribes of the Goddess then bonded closer together and formed the league of the Sea Peoples, the religious leadership of which was centered on the islands of Malta(1) and Gozo(2).

It must have been a heart-wrenching decision to organize and arm for war, because most of these traditionally non-aggressive, fun- and life-loving people had rarely been at odds with other people. They had been too busy exploring and settling the empty parts of the earth, which had earlier been inaccessible or made unlivable by the ice and unfavable climate of the last ice age. There was no war mentality among them.

THE RECORDS

Many written references exist in Egypt documenting the activities of the Sea Peoples. Here in brief are a few of those mentioned in historical documents and elaborated on elsewhere:

1341 bce., ambassadors of the Sea Peoples, possibly from the British Isles and Ireland, brought special gifts for Pharaoh Akhenaten and his Queen Nefertiti, indicating a good relationship between their countries. The pharaoh and his queen had tried to break the hold of the polytheistic, male-dominated religion of Egypt and had returned to the old ways of the Great Goddess.

THE SEA PEOPLES IDENTITY

Originally the Sea Peoples had been those tribes which had developed boat building, sailing, oak tanning of leather and star navigation and who led a life style almost entirely dependent on the sea. They may have started their experimentation on the ocean as early as 38,000 bce. and had learned that the sea could provide a reliable food supply at all times of the year and as a result had developed highly advanced sea-food harvesting methods. They coined the name 'ocean', Greek 'okeano', oke-ano, okegin (fulness, plentiful) ano (food supply): "plentiful food supply". When the central Sahara became unlivable because of fast advancing desertification (See Climate), which forced them to flee to the coast, the Sea Peoples were ready and available to ferry the displaced tribes and their livestock north to Europe. The Sea Peoples included the following three main tribes:

1) The dark featured, Rh-negative Berbers, originally from Morocco, Algiers and Senegal, who had discovered and populated the Canary and Cape Verde islands, all of the Atlantic islands off Europe, the Basque country and had established reindeer hunting camps in Finnmark in Arctic Norway and leather tanning stations on the southern tip of Sweden and the west coast of Ireland. They controlled all Atlantic traffic and the far western part of the Mediterranean. The Berbers from Morocco likely were the Shekelesh (3) of the Egyptian records, while the people of Britain may have been called the Aqaiwasha. It appears that the people of the Hebrides and Scotland were known to the Egyptians as the Tyrrhenoi(4), the people of Odysseus' tribe, later known to the Romans as the Picts. Their migration was a simple one and covered an area that was within easy reach of the homeland.

2) The blond, blue eyed, Rh-positive Shardana(5), also known as the Sherden or the Sherdein, from

she-erdein
xede - erdeinatzaile
restriction - scornful
"Scornful of restrictions"

were apparently originally from Cyrenaica, which is located between Libya and Egypt near the Mediterranean.

The geographical name Cyrenaica (Kirunaika) is an agglutination of three words:

kir-unai-ika
kirru - unai - ikaragaitz
blond - cowherd - fearless
"The fearless blond cowherds".

Very early on they had concentrated their efforts on exploring the lands around the Black Sea and must have been impressed with the potential for settlement. In northern Anatolia, on the shore of the Black Sea, they were known to the Hittites as the Kaska or Kirrukaska(6), and their descendants still live in the north east of Turkey under the name of Circaskian Turks. In their extremely wide ranging migration they sailed to the north shore of the Black Sea, and pulled, portaged and rowed up the almost endless Dnepr river and in time populated the Ukraine as far north as modern Lithuania. They then went on to settle the islands in, and the lands surrounding, the Baltic Sea. After settling the mainland of Norway and the Friesian islands they ended their migration in Iceland. In the Odyssey, the people who settled Norway are known by the name of Phaiakians or Phaikians, now called Vikings.

3) The people we call Cretans or Minoans were known to the 18th Dynasty Egyptians as Keftiu.

Keftiu(7)
.ke - eb. - .ti - i.u
ake - eba - ati - ihu
akela - ebakin - atxikilotu - ihuodei
Goddess - harvest - to arrest/hold back - thunderclouds
"The Goddess of the harvest holds back the thunderclouds."

from the beautiful island of Kaphtor. They were in control of all sea traffic and trade in the eastern Mediterranean. When the very large volcano on the Isle of Thera erupted in about 1,420 bce., it devastated Crete with terrible earthquakes, a thick layer of volcanic ash and the north coast was savaged by terrible tsunamis, which destroyed the ships and towns on the north coast and drowned most of the people living there. After that disastrous time, the Philistines of Cyprus and Lebanon, known to the Egyptians(8) as Pulisati(9), filled the sea commerce void left by the demise of the Keftiu. They may have been refugees from Crete.

Other ocean sailing Sea Peoples lived on the shores of the Indian ocean, one of them being the Yemeni from southern Arabia, who traveled regularly to India, Ceylon and Indonesia, but we are not concerned with them here.

SEA PEOPLES HISTORY

During the Ice Age, enormous amounts of water had been stored as ice on the northern continents, which had lowered the world's ocean level some 100 meters and probably even more. The peak of glaciations and the lowest ocean level came about around 16,000 bce. (See Climate) and was followed 4,000 years later by a very warm period which sent so much water cascading down the mountains and rivers, that during several years in a row the ocean level jumped up by an incredible 10 cm each year. Associated with violent storms, it caused enormous flooding and disastrous conditions in the low-lying coastal areas all over the world. Memories of this most destructive time are still told around the earth as legends of The Great Flood. The warm period ended about 9,000 bce. Then a Mini Ice Age followed lasting some centuries, during which the still present glaciers recovered some of the lost ground. The famous Irish archaeologist Michael O'Kelly wrote:

"In the Post-glacial Stage, which commenced about 10,300 years ago [= 8,300 bce.] the climate again began to improve and thus began the present warm stage' in which we now live".(10)

It is likely that the first settlers arrived in Ireland at this time. Imagine the Atlantic coast of Ireland around 8,000 bce. The glaciers and ice fields on the continents were again melting fast and the ocean level at that time had risen to about 25 meters below what it is today, still leaving part of the continental shelf exposed. Low lying, often-flat areas, such as what later became the North Sea and the Irish Sea, which had connected Ireland and Britain with the continent, were now being flooded. The people who were living on these low-lying shores, close to the sea must have known that the sea level was rising relatively fast. They had to live near the sea for at least part of the year because they were dependent on fish, small whales, squid, shellfish etc. for sustenance. The first people to settle on the west coasts of the islands were likely the support crews for the reindeer hunters of Finnmark in Arctic Norway, who needed safe harbs, resting places, supply and repair services for their ocean transport ships. The first and most important of these bases established was likely on Orkney, which has the longest record of continuous settlement of the British Isles and has rich archaeological sites to prove it. The traditional view of the origin of the Picts is that they started out settling the other islands from Orkney as is written by Bede in "The Eclesiastical History of the English People" (731 A.D.) which may well be true. It was also roughly the halfway point between the Basque country and Finnmark. The people sent there had brought any needed tools, livestock, and nets along with them from the Bay of Biscay(11), or even farther, from Morocco. It is sure that they imported goats and pigs, because these animals could survive with little care in the coastal forests and were an essential part of their food supply. Many of the dwelling sites these people had been living in are now well below sea level, it is not likely that much they left behind in these low areas would be recognizable today because of the incessant wave action. The weather appears to have been considerably better than it is today as O'Kelly wrote

"In circa 9,600 BP [= 76,00 bce], the Boreal Phase, birch was still present but hazel began to expand greatly. The lowlands and lower mountain slopes became covered in woodland and the heath lands seem to have disappeared. Pine also became prominent and while hazel continued to increase at the expense of birch, the oak and the elm made their appearance. The climate was relatively dry and not unlike that of the present day, although perhaps less stormy because the forest was able to spread right down to the western coastline. It is known that man was in Ireland at this time..."

Sailors from Morocco and the Basque(12) country had explored the entire west coast of Europe(13) at a very early date, possibly as early as 9,000 bce. Already at that early stage, these intrepid sailors had perfected boat building and star navigation, and explored as far north as Arctic Norway and in the process they discovered the immense migrating herd of reindeer, which moved between present day Russia and Norway. Reindeer hide was an essential material because their sails were made out of leather. Up to that time they had obtained the needed sail skins from another large herd on the high plateau in southern France and the highlands of the Pyrenees, where they had hunting camps. However, by 8,000 bce, the glaciers had retreated into the Alps and the reindeer followed until they were out of reach of the hunters, so a new source was urgently needed, which they knew existed in Finnmark, Norway.

THE Rh-NEGATIVE BLOOD FACTOR

The people of the first ocean-born migration, which populated the northwest coast of Europe, had a very special blood peculiarity that their descendants are still living with today. This was the only tribe in the world with many of its members having Rh-negative blood. Dr. Luigi Cavalli-Sforza published a map of the populations with the highest percentage of their members with Rh-negative blood. He wrote:

"Rh-negative genes are frequent in Europe, infrequent in Africa and West Asia, and virtually absent in East Asia and among the aboriginal populations of America and Australia. One can estimate degrees of relatedness by subtracting the percentage of Rh-negative individuals among, say, the English (16%) from that among the Basques (25%) to find a difference of nine percentage points. But between the English and East Asians it becomes 16 points, a greater distance that perhaps implies a more ancient separation".(14)

The highest percentage is found among some of the tribes still living in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco (40%). The next highest are the Basques, reported in different publications as having 25 and 32%, depending on location. The people of northwest Ireland, the Highland Scots and the western islanders of Norway all have between 16 and 25%, while the Lapps of Norway and Finland have between 5 and 7%. In addition, Cavalli-Sforza reports two small isolated populations of the same tribe, one in Chad and another in Senegal, each with about 25%. On his map, he shows an Rh-negative population in Chad, still living near the formerly enormous Chad lake. Only part of this lake still exists on the spot where the boundaries of Chad, Niger, Nigeria and Cameroon meet. These people may originally have been the sailors on Chad lake. Could it be that this is the original location of the Rh-negative population that then moved to Morocco and Algiers to become the Berbers? Or would it be the other way around?

BLACK IRISH AND SCOTS

The people, jokingly called the Black Irish, have dark hair and eyes, wedge-shaped faces and look like Berbers and Basques. Their blood type proves that Berbers and Basques were originally closely related people, as many of them have Rh-negative blood. They are likely the descendants of the first settlers to Ireland and Scotland. This type of people is especially common in Conamara and Donegal of Ireland and on the Outer Hebrides of Scotland.

Today in many publications, the presence of these dark-eyed people is explained as them being castaways of the huge Spanish armada which was defeated in 1588 by a coalition of British and Dutch sailors in the North Sea. They were wrecked on the islands by storms when the remnants of the fleet tried to sail around Ireland to struggle back home. Many of the sailors had indeed been Basques and several of those that made it safely to land, liked it there and stayed. However, the existence of these dark featured people had already been documented long before the armada was ever thought of. There is little doubt that the Black Irish are the descendants of the oldest population of the British Isles and Ireland.

so we have a connection of vedic peoples to sumer/chaldea, the exile in babylon, the sumerian origin/sanskrit connections to ogham/gaelic/druids, the genetics, the religion.

the hill of tara, could the most western point of the global vedic culture/nation, which i think it is.

synergy777

05-05-2008, 04:48 PM

http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/religion_news/2007/02/elaine_meinel_s.html

Mars had an Arean association to the Babylonians.

Iran comes from the word Aryan.

Antares was one of the 4 Royal Stars of Persia.

Aries was the constellation of the Hebrew tribe of Judah -the tribe of the Messiah, the ruling sign that was giving way to Pisces about 60 BC.

The ruling constellation is crowned by the spring equinox Sun rising within it's borders.

The Sanskrit meaning of Aryan was "a way of life that aims at the elevation of everyone in society to a higher level of consciousness."

Mangala, the Sanskrit name for Mars means "the auspicious one".

(Antares) This is one of the four key stars in the heavens, also called archangel stars. Michael (Aldebaran) watcher of the East. Gabriel (Fomalhaut) watcher of the South. Raphael (Regulus) Watcher of the North. Oriel (Antares) Watcher of the West. At one time they marked the two Equinoxes and two Solstices. Aldebaran marked the zero Aries point in 3044 BC, Antares marked zero Libra 3052 BC, Fomalhaut marked zero Capricorn, 2582 BC, Regulus marked zero Cancer 2345 BC. As one of the four Royal stars of Persia it's name was Satevis; but, as their lunar asterism, it was Gel, the "Red"; the Sogdians changing this to Maghan sadwis, the "Great One" saffron-colored.

They have been characterized as Horses, reflected both in the famed Four Horsemen of Apocalypse (Revelations 6) and Chariot Horses in the Book of Zechariah.

Arabic Kalb al 'Akrab, the Scorpion's Heart, Latin Cor Scorpionis; Greek Kardia Skorpiou; "The Scorpion's Heart". Antares alone constituted the 16th Arabic manzil, Al Kalb, "the Heart", one of the fortunate lunar stations [Influences: Causes discord, sedition, conspiracy against princes and rulers, and revenge from enemies, but frees captives and helps building. With Moon transiting here, sow seeds, travel and go to war (Robson)].

Aldebaran is called 'The Bull's Eye' and is the brightest star in Taurus. Taurus was the star cluster that rose in the East at sunrise thousands of years ago in the Vernal Equinox. The founding of the great cities of Ur and Sumer in what is now Iraq, worshipped these stars in this constellation

synergy777

13-05-2008, 03:38 PM

http://www.redicecreations.com/searching.html#rms

Hesus Krishna

" …Up until the Council of Nicea, Roman aristocracy primarily worshipped two Greek Gods, Apollo and Zeus, but the great bulk of common people idolized either Julius Ceasar or Mithra. Caesar was deified by the Roman Senate after his death (d. 15th March, 44 BC) and subsequently venerated as the Divine Julius. The word 'saviour' was affixed to his name, its literal meaning being 'one who sows the seed', i.e. a phallic god. Caesar was hailed as 'God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life' and his successor, Augustus was called the 'ancestral God and Saviour of the whole human race' (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 1952). Emperor Nero (37-68), whose original name was L. Domitius Ahenobarbus, was immortalized on his coins as the 'Saviour of mankind' (ibid). Because the Divine Julius

Was Roman Saviour and 'Father of the Empire', he was considered 'god' among the Roman rabble for more than 300 years. He was the deity in some Western presbyter's texts, but was not recognized in Eastern or Oriental writings.

Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to 'create an entirely new god for his Empire' (Confessions of a Vatican Archivist) that would unite all religious factions under one deity, and presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion of particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special divinity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussions; 'As yet, the new God had not been selected by the council, and so they balloted, in order to determine the matter; for one year and five months the balloting lasted' (God's Book of Eskra, xlviii, 26-53 Prof. S.I. MacQuire trans, Salisbury, 1921).

At the end of that time, Constantine returned to the gathering to discover that the presbyters had not agreed on a new deity but had balloted down to a short list of five prospects, namely, Caesar, Krishna, Mithra, Horus, and Zeus. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon a new god for them. To involve British factions, he ruled that the name of the mighty Druid god,

Hesus (crucified in Britain and later restored to life), be joined with the Eastern savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus a caricature, or the personification of an ideal, Hesus Krishna, would be the name of the new Roman god.

A vote was taken and it was with a majority show of hands that both divinities became one God… 161 votes to 157. Following longstanding heathen custom, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman Apotheoses Decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new god was proclaimed and 'officially ratified by Constantine' (Acta Concilii Niceni, Colon, 1618).

That purely political act of deification effectively, and legally, placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman gods as one individual composition. That abstraction lent earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion, and when the letter 'J' was introduced into alphabets around the Ninth Century, the linguistic relic of the name became Jesus Christ. …"

Tony Bushby - The Papal Billions (pp 23-25) Joshua Books - ISBN 978 0 9804101 1 2

synergy777

13-05-2008, 03:57 PM

hinduism is regarded as the oldest religion in the world, the vedic culture is the worlds oldest global culture. many languages today come from devenaghi/sanskrit eg latin comes from sanskrit, gaelic/ogham comes from sanskrit. all languages hebrew, latin, gaelic are connected to sanskrit.

the jews are descended from vedic people/priesthood/philosophers. the jews spent time in persia/iran and mesopotomia/iraq-babylon. in babylon the chaldean priesthood combined vedic and african religion into one. this became the basis for judaism, torah and talmud. compare the torah and vedas. judaism gave birth to christianity and islam.

thus one could deduce that all religions are connected, the actions of the council of nicea support this interaction of cultures/religions.

synergy777

13-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Proof of global connections to all religions/cultures

Global cultures and religions

hinduism is regarded as the oldest religion in the world, the vedic culture is the worlds oldest global culture. many languages today come from devenaghi/sanskrit eg latin comes from sanskrit, gaelic/ogham comes from sanskrit. all languages hebrew, latin, gaelic are connected to sanskrit.

the jews are descended from vedic people/priesthood/philosophers. the jews spent time in persia/iran and mesopotomia/iraq-babylon.

in babylon the chaldean priesthood combined vedic and african religion into one. this became the basis for judaism, torah and talmud. compare the torah and vedas. judaism gave birth to christianity and islam.

thus one could deduce that all religions are connected, the actions of the council of nicea support this interaction of cultures/religions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.studylight.org/his/bc/wfj/apion/view.cgi?book=1&chapter=1

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS CONTRA APION
chapter 1,verse 22:16

Quote:
Then said Hyperochides, Go on, if it so pleases thee. This man then, [answered Aristotle,] was by birth a Jew, and came from Celesyria; these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0307/ET14-8222.html

Hebrews And Vedic Brahmins

BY DR. SAMAR ABBAS, ALIGARH, INDIA

EDITORIAL, Jul 14 (VNN) — A Review

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.redicecreations.com/searching.htmlrms

Hesus Krishna

" …Up until the Council of Nicea, Roman aristocracy primarily worshipped two Greek Gods, Apollo and Zeus, but the great bulk of common people idolized either Julius Ceasar or Mithra. Caesar was deified by the Roman Senate after his death (d. 15th March, 44 BC) and subsequently venerated as the Divine Julius. The word 'saviour' was affixed to his name, its literal meaning being 'one who sows the seed', i.e. a phallic god. Caesar was hailed as 'God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life' and his successor, Augustus was called the 'ancestral God and Saviour of the whole human race' (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 1952). Emperor Nero (37-68), whose original name was L. Domitius Ahenobarbus, was immortalized on his coins as the 'Saviour of mankind' (ibid). Because the Divine Julius

Was Roman Saviour and 'Father of the Empire', he was considered 'god' among the Roman rabble for more than 300 years. He was the deity in some Western presbyter's texts, but was not recognized in Eastern or Oriental writings.

Constantine's intention at Nicaea was to 'create an entirely new god for his Empire' (Confessions of a Vatican Archivist) that would unite all religious factions under one deity, and presbyters were asked to debate and decide who their new god would be. Delegates argued among themselves, expressing personal motives for inclusion of particular writings that promoted the finer traits of their own special divinity. Throughout the meeting, howling factions were immersed in heated debates, and the names of 53 gods were tabled for discussions; 'As yet, the new God had not been selected by the council, and so they balloted, in order to determine the matter; for one year and five months the balloting lasted' (God's Book of Eskra, xlviii, 26-53 Prof. S.I. MacQuire trans, Salisbury, 1921).

At the end of that time, Constantine returned to the gathering to discover that the presbyters had not agreed on a new deity but had balloted down to a short list of five prospects, namely, Caesar, Krishna, Mithra, Horus, and Zeus. Constantine was the ruling spirit at Nicaea and he ultimately decided upon a new god for them. To involve British factions, he ruled that the name of the mighty Druid god,

Hesus (crucified in Britain and later restored to life), be joined with the Eastern savior-god, Krishna (Krishna is Sanskrit for Christ), and thus a caricature, or the personification of an ideal, Hesus Krishna, would be the name of the new Roman god.

A vote was taken and it was with a majority show of hands that both divinities became one God… 161 votes to 157. Following longstanding heathen custom, Constantine used the official gathering and the Roman Apotheoses Decree to legally deify two deities as one, and did so by democratic consent. A new god was proclaimed and 'officially ratified by Constantine' (Acta Concilii Niceni, Colon, 1618).

That purely political act of deification effectively, and legally, placed Hesus and Krishna among the Roman gods as one individual composition. That abstraction lent earthly existence to amalgamated doctrines for the Empire's new religion, and when the letter 'J' was introduced into alphabets around the Ninth Century, the linguistic relic of the name became Jesus Christ. …"

Tony Bushby - The Papal Billions (pp 23-25) Joshua Books - ISBN 978 0 9804101 1 2

octopusrex

15-05-2008, 01:52 PM

Good research 777 but what does your HEART tell you?

synergy777

18-05-2008, 05:24 PM

http://www.mondovista.com/hinduturk.html

viewzone.com

Gene Matlock: The India, Turkey, Mexico Connection

Introducion

Editor's Note: For almost ten years, Viewzone has been proud to introduce readers to the exceptional and often controversial work of Gene Matlock. Gene has been credited with, almost single handedly, focusing historians and archaeoligists on the cultural similarities between the indigenous people of Mexico, past and present, and the ancient cultures of India and Turkey.

Gene examines common words in use by everyday people, their cultural traditions and even their religious beliefs and "gods" to make an exhaustive comparison that must make even the most skeptical historian pause and re-examine history. His intelligently written articles have been the topic of hundreds of on-line "blogs" and of classroom discussions in universities and livingrooms all over the globe.

Gene is the author of numerous books on this topic and presents some of his most provacative theories for the readers of Viewzone. Enjoy!

During my speaking engagement In Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico about the Hindu-Turkic origin of the ancient Mexicans during April 25, 26, 27, 28, in 2007, the Hindus present expressed their extreme displeasure that most nations in the world refuse to recognize the truth that the ancient Hindus and Turks are the parents of this world. Nearly every person reading this article has a Turkic or Hindu last name. Yet, most humans on earth will swear that they're anything but.
Right now, the Mexicans and Hindus are collectively accepting the truth of their millenniums-old kinship, both genetically and culturally. I discovered this fact on my own, more than three decades ago. I hope that through my articles, books and other writings, our Hindu and Turkic parents will get the recognition and respect they so well deserve.

Hopefully, the truth that we are all blood brothers may inspire us to stop killing one another.

--Gene Matlock

Suggested List of Books by Gene D. Matlock. All books published by iUniverse.

Jesus and Moses Are Buried in India, Birthplace of Abraham and the Hebrews. ISBN: 0-595-13468-8.
Note: This book led to Mr. Matlock's discovery that all human beings descend from the Turks and Hindus. At the time he wrote this book, which took more than 20 years of research, he had succumbed to a popular Hindu lie that the Aryans were either inventions of European whites or white devils. Later, he found out that the Aryans were just all the homo-sapien-sapien races of mankind. Other than his erroneous appraisal of the Aryans, the book is an excellent reference manual for students of comparative religion. When Mr. Matlock finished the book, he was 100 percent sure that Jesus was buried in India. One of his readers, author Suzanne Ollson, decided to visit Kashmir for a few weeks, wanting to corroborate Mr. Matlock's findings. She ended up staying several years, writing her excellent book, Jesus in Kashmir, The Lost Tomb. Mr. Matlock states that after reading Suzanne's book, he became 200 percent sure.

India Once Ruled the Americas! ISBN: 0-595-1346-8. Mr. Matlock confesses that he also erroneously made demons of the Aryans when in reality they were just modern humans of all races.

Nature's Religion Versus Mankind's Spiritual Frauds. ISBN: 0-595-28208-3.

Christianity-Mankind's First Worldwide Religion! Yes, Christianity preceded all known religions, contrary to our mental conditioning that it is just over 2,000 years old. It is the granddaddy of Buddhism and India's Isvar or Shiva religion. No other religion preceded it. ISBN-13: 978-0-595-36511-0.

The Ego - Mankind's Inner Terrorist! ISBN-13:978-0-595-36181-6. Mr. Matlock wrote this book about India's Jnana Yoga before he even knew what Jnana Yoga was. An Iuniverse Editor's Choice.

What Strange Mystery Unites the Turkish Nations, India, Catholocis and Mexico? ISBN: 0-595-39446-9. Mr. Matlock says that of all the books he has ever written, this one is his favorite.

synergy777

18-05-2008, 05:29 PM

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/proof_of_vedic_culture's_global_existence.htm

Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence

by Stephen Knapp

This book provides evidence which makes it clear that most religious history is not what we think it is. It lets you see the true heritage that has been suppressed for centuries. It shows that there was once a greatly advanced and ancient culture that was a global society. This was the Vedic civilization. Even today we can see its influence in any part of the world, which makes it obvious that before the world became full of distinct and separate cultures, religions, and countries, it was once united in a common brotherhood of Vedic culture, with common standards, ideals, language, and representations of God.

No matter what we may be in regard to our present religion, society, or country, we are all descendants of that ancient, global civilization. The Vedic tradition of India is the parent of humanity and the original ancestor of all religions. Through this book you will see:

* How Vedic knowledge was given to humanity by the Supreme.

* The history and traditional source of the Vedas and Vedic Aryan society.

* Who were the original Vedic Aryans. How Vedic society was a global influence and what shattered this once world-wide society.

* Many scientific discoveries over the past several centuries are only rediscoveries of what was already known in the Vedic literature.

* How the origins of world language and literature are found in India and Sanskrit. How Sanskrit faded from being a global language.

* The Vedic influence and proof of its ancient existence found in such countries as Britain, France, Russia, Greece, China, Japan, Egypt, and in areas of Scandinavia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas.

* The links between the Vedic and other ancient cultures, such as the Sumerians, Persians, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, etc.

* How Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism were all influenced by the Vedic tradition and still contain many Vedic elements within them.

* How many of the western holy sites, churches, and mosques were once the sites of Vedic holy places and sacred shrines.

* Uncovering the truth of India's history: Powerful evidence that shows how many mosques and Muslim buildings were once opulent Vedic temples.

* The need to recognize the real history of the world, and to protect what is left of Vedic culture, the roots of humanity.

This book is offered as an attempt to allow humanity to see more clearly its universal origins. However, this book provides enough amazing if not startling facts and evidence about the truth of world history and the ancient, global Vedic culture, that it could quite possibly cause a major shift in the way we view religious history and the basis of world traditions. The book is 353 pages, and 6" x 9" trim size, with Glossary, References, and Index.

"The missing link in our understanding of civilization is the Vedic Aryan culture which thrived on the Indian subcontinent in antiquity and which influenced subsequent civilizations in Sumeria, China, Egypt and the Middle East, Europe and Britain, Southeast Asia and as far away as the Americas. Stephen Knapp, in Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence, delves into the history and traditional sources of the Vedas--that ancient body of sacred literature which many regard as the fount of the world's spiritual and cultural heritage." Nexus Magazine, Nov-Dec, 2000.

ORDERING INFORMATION

To order your copy, send $14.95, plus $2.50 for shipping and handling ($3.50 in Canada) to: The World Relief Network, P. O. Box 15082, Detroit, Michigan 48215--0082 U.S.A. Also available through your bookstore, ISBN: 0-9617410-6-6. For your convenience, you can download our Order Form.

It is also available at Amazon.com through this link: Amazon.com: Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence (9780961741068): Stephen Knapp: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ejYhcYAEL.@@AMEPARAM@@51ejYhcYAEL

Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence Table of Contents

PREFACE * This book is Great Food for thought at the Very Least * About the Name "Hindu."

INTRODUCTION: WHAT IS THE VEDIC/ARYAN CULTURE

CHAPTER ONE: VEDIC CULTURE SINCE THE TIME OF CREATION * The Divinity of Sanskrit

CHAPTER TWO: THE HISTORY AND TRADITIONAL SOURCE OF THE VEDAS * The Compiling of the Vedic literature

CHAPTER THREE: REDISCOVERING THE ADVANCEMENTS OF VEDIC SCIENCE * More ancient glories of Vedic Culture * The Vedic Ion Machine

CHAPTER FOUR: THE ORIGINS OF VEDIC SOCIETY: SOURCE OF THE WORLD'S SPIRITUAL HERITAGE * Theories of the Aryan origins * Was there ever an Aryan Invasion? * The Indus Valley Civilization was a part of the advanced Vedic Culture * The Vedic literature supplies no evidence of an Aryan invasion * More evidence for the original home of the Vedic Aryans * The Vedic explanation of the original Aryans and how their influence spread throughout the world * The chronology of events in the spread of Vedic culture * Conclusion.

CHAPTER FIVE: THE WHOLE WORLD WAS ONCE IN UNITED IN VEDIC CULTURE * The Vedic tradition is the parent of all humanity * India and Sanskrit: The source of world literature * Worldwide remnants of Sanskrit * How Sanskrit faded from being a global language and what shattered the global Vedic culture * Vedic culture is the original ancestor of all religions.

CHAPTER SIX: MORE SANSKRIT/VEDIC LINKS WITH ENGLISH WORDS AND WESTERN CULTURE

CHAPTER SEVEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE FOUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA * The Hittites * The Mitanni * The Sumerians * Persia * Afghanistan * Iraq and Iran * The Kassites * Israel * Arabia * The Parsis * The Druze * Egypt * Africa.

CHAPTER EIGHT: ISLAM AND ITS LINKS WITH VEDIC CULTURE * The Basics of Islam * The Vedic connections in Islam * The Kaba was a Vedic shrine

CHAPTER NINE: THE PHILOSOPHICAL ORIGINS AND VEDIC LINKS IN JUDAISM * The History of Judaism * More Vedic links in Judaism

CHAPTER TEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN EUROPE AND RUSSIA * The Vedic influence in Britain * Stonehenge and the Druids * Ireland * France * Scandinavia * Lithuania * Germany * Central Europe * Spain * Italy * The Pope and the Vatican * Greece * Russia.

CHAPTER ELEVEN: CHRISTIANITY AND THE VEDIC TEACHINGS WITHIN IT * A brief look at Christianity's beginnings * Paganism in Christianity * The sectarian development of the Christian Scriptures * The Vedic influence on Christianity * The dark side of Christianity * The prison of religion * Jesus Taught Bhakti-yoga * Do all Christians go to heaven? * The Bible teaches the chanting of God's names * The names of God.

CHAPTER TWELVE: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ORIENT * Java * Indonesia * Borneo * Malaysia and Singapore * Thailand * North and South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos * Korea * Myanmar (Burma) * China * Buddhism * Japan * Reiki.

CHAPTER THIRTEEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ANCIENT AMERICAS * More Vedic links in the Inca language * Other cultures that came to America.

CHAPTER FOURTEEN: UNCOVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT INDIA'S HISTORY * The plot to cover Vedic archeology in India * The Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple * The misidentified so-called Muslim buildings in Delhi * The Kutab Minar * Other buildings around Delhi * Ahmedabad * Bijapur * Misidentified Hindu buildings in other areas * Hindus constructed, Muslims destroyed * Time to plan the survival of Vedic culture * An action plan for the survival of Vedic Culture in India and elsewhere.

CONCLUSION

APPENDIX ONE: MORE INFORMATION ABOUT VIMANAS

APPENDIX TWO: REESTABLISHING THE DATE OF LORD BUDDHA

REFERENCES / GLOSSARY / INDEX

[From: http://www.stephen-knapp.com]

synergy777

18-05-2008, 06:16 PM

Good research 777 but what does your HEART tell you?

i don't know what my heart says, i only know my mind/rationale and it says don't be so stupid/arrogant/inaccurate.

my lucid dreams, heart/spirit are to be frank, not accurate enough to come to a conclusion.

also i am being honest here, i cannot distinguish between heart/sprit and mind/desire/bias/flawed perception etc.

i am an aspie/geek, so i relate everything via mind/intellect, the spirit can be wishy washy/untruthful imho.

i do need spirit/heart training/development etc, but where do i find it? can you help bro.

see i have dreams etc, but i think this from me reading/thinking about this stuff and not my soul telling me about kalki/aldebaran/krishna etc

and i don't fancy being another charlatan/shayler/pariah, as in a world of lies, the truth is hard to find, within and out. so i do not want to become arrogant/deluded like shayler etc.

i do think everyone, including me has the potential to develop ourselves and become fully operational eg left/right hemisphere intune with our spirit, but i do not know how to, i guess i need morpheus, lol

phildee3

18-05-2008, 08:39 PM

i am an aspie/geek, so i relate everything via mind/intellect, the spirit can be wishy washy/untruthful imho.

sad

synergy777

19-05-2008, 06:19 PM

its is sad, i admit it, its a hinderance, but this where the line stops.

this where the all knowing gurus, new age seminar giving spiritual teachers who pontificate about loa/infinite love, suddenly become silent. see this is the crux, how does one truly use these higher functions, no one can tell us this, not icke, tolle, swerdlow, watt etc. no one.

what they do is take vedic/buddhist texts and put them into a modern syntax/context and tell us the process of thoughts/emotions/vibrations/loa/maya-illusion/dimensions, with all the mind- be here now, then chakras/mantras and matrix malarkery. etc.

so why give people lies/spiritual candy floss, eg nice taste, no substance with this law of attraction, thinking/creating, synchroncity/serendiptity, and the most annoying and infantile soundbite/cliche " there is no such thing a coincidence ", this is the most stupid/irrational phrase i know.

its the placebo/panacea approach used by doctors. think postive and you will feel better, thats obvious/ mediate and you will live better, dude, thats like 10,000+ years old, then you have astral/lucid dreams, dude i can do anything i want in these, but where is the division/difference between mental and spiritual. what else is there, crystals, mantras, its all comforting but not pragmatic.

so in all your infinite wisdom oh guru, tell me, teach me, me, a ignorant soul, how does one listen to spirit?

phildee3

19-05-2008, 07:38 PM

phildee3

19-05-2008, 07:45 PM

"there is no such thing a[s] coincidence", this is the most stupid/irrational phrase i know.

Wow!
Thank you.
I wasn't sure, but you have verified that it's true.

synergy777

20-05-2008, 03:39 PM

phildee, again when one questions, all i get from you is nonsense, diversion. no one knows do they?

phildee3

21-05-2008, 07:47 AM

no one knows do they?

I thought I met a man who said he knew a man
Who knew what was going on
I was mistaken, only another stranger that I knew

And I thought that I'd found the light
To guide me through my nights and all my darkness
I was mistaken, it was only reflections of a shadow that I saw

And I thought I've seen someone who seemed at last
To know the truth
I was mistaken, only a child laughing in the sun

Laughing. David Crosby.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
__________________

phildee3

21-05-2008, 09:03 AM

no one knows do they?

Some do,
but they can't say.

Hence "gnosticism" and "esotericism."

Meher Baba knew.
He tried to tell us by keeping totally silent.

Some heard.
Baba smiled.

Like a child, laughing in the sun.

synergy777

22-05-2008, 02:03 PM

http://www.blessingscornucopia.com/Hierarchs_of_Twelve_Universal_Rays_Hierarch_Sanand a_Skanda_Kumara_Karttikeya_Karttiki_Shandanana_Sub rahmanya.htm

Sananda Skanda Kumara was formerly known as the Ascended Master Sananda and as a leader of the Ashtar Command stationed on the Pleiadian mothership, the "Ashtara".

He was also known as the Epic and Puranic Hindu war god, Skanda (Kumara, Karttikeya, Karttiki, Karttiki, Shandanana Subrahmanya), who has been revered in India since around 300 BCE or earlier. One of the forms of Skanda called "Karttikeya" was reared by the Pleiades stars.

The youthful and virile Skanda was associated with the colour red and looked upon as the leader of a divine army of gods. He usually carried a diverse array of weapons and items with him like a banner, cockerel, conch, feather, hatchet, peacock, shield, spear, staff, sword, wheel, and wood apple.

Perceived "As the One who Jumps" during fighting, God Skanda was mentioned in the Puranic texts, as well as, the "Mahabharata" and "Ramayana epics". Also depicted in bronze and stone sculptures, he was known to have balanced his "Sakti" Divine Feminine side "Karttiki" with his Divine Masculine side "Karttikeya".

Of Pleiadian Lineage, Hierarch Sananda Skanda was once one of the Pleiadian benefactor teachers and mentors of Celtic Mound Builder Heritage, and has recently returned from the Pleiades to assist the peoples of this planet once again in their evolutionary life spirals.

He is also one of the nine Pleiadian brothers known as the Kumaras, who have been shepherding the Earth over the millenium. They have also been called the Kurmavatars or "Tortoise Avatars".

octopusrex

23-05-2008, 10:49 PM

i don't know what my heart says, i only know my mind/rationale and it says don't be so stupid/arrogant/inaccurate.

my lucid dreams, heart/spirit are to be frank, not accurate enough to come to a conclusion.

also i am being honest here, i cannot distinguish between heart/sprit and mind/desire/bias/flawed perception etc.

i am an aspie/geek, so i relate everything via mind/intellect, the spirit can be wishy washy/untruthful imho.

i do need spirit/heart training/development etc, but where do i find it? can you help bro.

see i have dreams etc, but i think this from me reading/thinking about this stuff and not my soul telling me about kalki/aldebaran/krishna etc

and i don't fancy being another charlatan/shayler/pariah, as in a world of lies, the truth is hard to find, within and out. so i do not want to become arrogant/deluded like shayler etc.

i do think everyone, including me has the potential to develop ourselves and become fully operational eg left/right hemisphere intune with our spirit, but i do not know how to, i guess i need morpheus, lol

You need a spirit-walk.

Go to Arizona, find the Peyote Way Church. Tell 'em I sent you.

synergy777

28-05-2008, 02:46 PM

http://tarawatch.org/
tarawatch recognises the vedic/indian connections to the hill of tara!

Vedic Origins of the Europeans: The Danavas, Children of Danu
http://dedanaan.com/vedic-origins-children-of-danu/

http://www.***********************/forum1/message326858/pg1

In these altered states beyond the five senses we can regain our conscious connection to the Infinite and experience any expression of the Infinite anything in, all existence.

Look at the ocean. We give it different names like the Pacific or the Indian, as we give ourselves names like Bill Jones or David Icke. But these 'different' oceans are the same water, as we are the same consciousness. So where is the ocean? Is it crashing on the coast of India? Is it lapping on a beach in Jamaica? Is it the Roaring Forties or the South China Sea?

It is all of them and so it can experience all of them.

We are the infinite consciousness that is everything.

Where are we? Are we the tree in the garden? Are we the forest down the road? Are we the Sun or the sky? Are we the reflection we see in the mirror or the raindrops on our face? We are all of them because we are an expression of the seamless One and we can experience any aspect of the seamless One that we are.

We have been manipulated to believe we are isolated 'individual' droplets when we are the ocean. We are not even part of the ocean, we are the ocean. When you place a droplet back in the water, where does the droplet end and the ocean start? There is no division, the droplet becomes the ocean.

This knowledge has been communicated by the enlightened throughout human existence, but official science has denied its validity.

The ancient Greek philosopher, Plato, said that human beings were like people sitting in a cave always facing a wall. The universe was the shadows projected onto the wall, illusions that the people mistake for reality.

The only reality or truth was the light consciousness that made the shadows possible.

The ancient Vedic works of India make the same point. The eighth century Hindu mystic, Shankara, said: "This entire universe of which we speak and think is nothing but Brahman [infinite consciousness]. Brahman dwells beyond the range of Maya [illusion]. There is nothing else."

Seven months after this experience in Brazil, I came across an ancient Hindu myth.

It said human consciousness had begun as a ripple that decided to leave the ocean of consciousness the "timeless, space less and eternal".When it awakened to itself in this 'disconnected' state, the myth said, it forgot that it was part of the infinite ocean and felt isolated and separated.

science is now proving this

Holographic Reality & Spiritual Science

http://www.redicecreations.com/connections/more/holographicrealityspritsci.html

----------------------------------------------------------

icke was right about this !!!!!!!!!

i believe that we are all a part of the source/brahma, an eternal connected multi dimensional energy/entity beyond our comprehension. a energy/source so intelligent, loving, powerful, compassionate that its beyond our 5 sense/5 dimensional comprehension. we can understand/live a part of it, in this 5 dimensional creation/cosmos, but its truly remarkable/awesome, that we would probably fry our bains if we experienced all of it. this is shared by some of the most intelligent scientists/teachers ever.

the parts of this energy/creation are our spirits, thus we are all children/creations of the source, connected, the infinite oneness/infinite love of icke etc. also if you read icke etc and read the religous texts from hinduism/buddhism/sikhism to the three a-braham-ic faiths you realise this is the core message/universal truth. i know all religions have been created/edited/corrupted by elite and have served a purpose for imperial means. from egyptain/babylonian/vedic priesthoods to council of nicea, hadiths/sunnahs/wahabbis, then zionists, christian identity/british israel etc. etc.

so either icke/religions are wrong, and we don't know nothing accurate or its could be the truth. also the negative entities that control our 5 dimensions could control the whole eleven and thus trick us into thinking we have entered heaven/paradise etc, thus we are not just searching for truth here, but after, well potentially all dimensions. it could be a multidimensional multiverse/matrix created by negative entities or they could have rebelled and took control, eg the biblical fall, from watchers/guardians to controllers/wannabe gods.

thus no matter what view you take, either gnostic, atheist, religous, you come to the same set of truths/conclusions.

now i know why jews get a bad press its due to deutronomy/talmud/zionism. christians get a bad name due to empire/vatican/nicea etc. muslims get a bad name for empire/extremists, hindus get a bad name for caste system etc. but is every jew a zionist, is every christian a crusader, is every muslim a extremist. no, i have from first hand experience met religous people from all faiths who are genuine compassionate people, i met atheist/scientists/agnostics/new ages types aswell. i found all these people to be good, searching for the same thing, truth/inner peace. so i will not follow the divide and rule hype of the elite. for too long we have let ignorance/fear/hate turn ourselves against eachother and the source/spirit, cue bono?

synergy777

29-05-2008, 06:19 PM

http://sivaloka.tripod.com/ancient_links.htm

Common Roots of Vedic and Celtic Culture and Spirituality

Ancient Links Between Ancient Peoples

The Celtic Peoples were spread across Europe about 4 millennia ago and moved into the British Isles and Ireland at the beginning of the last millenneum. The basic day to day spiritual needs of the tribe were generally met by the local shamans, usually women, while the spiritual and ethical welfare of the greater community of the Celtic Kingdoms was entrusted to the mysterious Druids.

A mystical-religious order, these Brahmins of the West trained for 20 years and more in philosphy, oration, metaphysics, ritual, magic, meditation, science, medicine and law. There were several levels of initiation and specialization within the Druidic order such as the Bards, through whom we have what little of the ancient wisdom is exant in ancient tales and songs. Druids were seldom tied to any kingdom or community. The Druids were free to come and go as they chose, for their own mysterious reasons. They generally held regional councils seasonally or in time of need.

The more one examines this ancient cultural and spiritual thread running through the history of Europe and the Western Isles, the more similarities one finds with the Vedic thread of culture and spirituality that runs through the even more ancient history of Bharat (India). The Celtic mark is stamped upon all the cultures of medieval and modern Europe. The Celtic traditions have most clearly survived in Irish faith and culture.This Celtic mark in nearly every instance finds a reflection in the ancient Vedic culture and it's influence upon modern Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and Sikhism.

Just as our ancient Celtic forebears began each day by entering naked into the cold, sacred rivers for morning ablutions, chanting mantras in their Indo-European Celtic tongues, wearing topknots in their long hair "so emblematic of the brahmins," as recorded by Tacitus, the ancient historian. From surviving Celtic sculpture, we know special yogic sitting postures were utilized for spiritual purpose. The rubrics and rituals of our Celtic ancestors can be found in any number of the Vedic traditions of modern Bharat.. One of the most telling evidences of historical connection is in music.

If you are at all familiar with traditional Celtic music, especially the slow, yet rythmical mournful ballads will immediately recognize and even anticipate the melodic progression in Indian music from any of the traditions. As a musician myself, I can tell you that a note for note comparison between a Celtic tune and a Hindu tune would show amazing similarities.Druids, in their capacity as the 'spiritual elite' of Celtic society and in their severe and comprehensive training are unique, their only counterparts are the rishi seers and brahmins of Bharat in Vedic times.

The decimation of the Druidic order by the Romans and the subsequent absorption of Celtic culture into Christianity by the Church has left us with precious little knowledge of the Druids, and little more about Celtic daily life. One Greek historian's eyewitness description of an old, bearded druid has him draped in a white, cowled cloak, wielding a sacred gold sickle to harvest a branch of the sacred mistletoe from a holy oak tree. The woolen cowled cloaks were an insignia of druidship-though not always white-as were triple-ended staffs and other talismans embossed with chariot wheel, swastika or triple-swirl symbols. The white robes may have been reserved for the most sagely, psychic druids, called ovates. Their hair swept long, often braided or curled in a topknot. This physical description is uncannily like a typical description of a Brahmin, from nearly any age of India's history. We know that they were exempt from taxes and from warfare, but were required to teach warriors breathing and chanting techniques to induce a battle-trance, or blood-lust, and high body heat, a sign of psychic energy.

The Druids did not dwell in the villages or towns with the general population. They kept to themselves, alone or in austere caves or timber cloisters, just as the holy men of Bharat, be they Brahmins, swamis or sannyasins. On the ancient and magickal island of Avalon (modern Glatonbury?) was a community of priestesses. Depending on what one felt called to, a Druid served the greater community in any number of capacities; seer, nemeton priest, judge, king's counselor, lawyer, bard, healer, or astronomer.

Some Comparisons:

PANTHEON

Vedic gods are called devas, meaning "shinning ones." A philosophically pantheistic overlay built on earlier anthropomorphic deities based on the forces of nature, ethics, culture, and physical skills.

Celtic gods are called deuos, also meaning "shinning ones." Based on a Shamanic, animistic polytheism, the advent of the Druidic order into Celtic society injected a more pantheistic view of deity.

COSMOLOGY

Posits four major interrelated worlds, or planes: the Physical Plane (the phenomenal world perceived by our physical senses), the Astral Plane (the realm of demigods and various non-carnate spirits) and Causal Plane(the realm of Supreme Deity and primal energy), and a hell of sorts, which is more of a corridor to the other three planes rather than it's own plane.

Four major interrelated worlds, or realms; the Nether Realm (Subconscious mind, through which we reach the non-physical realms or planes of existence), the Earth Realm (Conscious mind), the Heavenly Realm (Superconscious mind), and the Star Realm (Cosmic consciousness, transcendent of mind, the abode of all primal energy.)

REINCARNATION

The soul incarnates again and again in response to karma, or the effects caused by actions taken and accumulated life after life until one has attained moksha, or liberation from samsara, the endless cycle of birth, death and rebirth. The Sankrit word for soul is atman.

Although there is only a vague conception of karma, reincarnation was an accepted fact of life among the Celts, who also tended to worship their more successful ancestor, judging their need to be reborn by the physical accomplishments of life. The Gaelic (Celtic) word for soul is anam.

DISCIPLINE

Brahmins study for 12 years to learn oration, mathematics, ritual, astrology, medicine and vedic knowledge. Yogis perform amazing physical austerities through yoga. Breath control is central, the Sankrit word for breath is prana.

Druids studied for up to 20 years to learn oration, mathematics, ritual, astrology, statecraft, diplomacy, and medicine. They also practiced severe austerities, also involving breath control. The Gaelic (Celtic) word for breath is anah

SCRIPTURAL CADENCE

The ancient Vedic scholars were noted for memorizing the lengthy epics conveying spiritual knowledge and dharmic duty. The poetic metre for these sagas was typically fixed syllable line, free form with 3-part cadence.

The Bards of the Druidic order were required to memorize the Celtic sagas conveying metaphysical truths and civic duty. The poetic metre for the Celtic sagas was also fixed syllable, free form with a 3-part cadence.

WOMEN IN SOCIETY AND RELIGION

Hindus (especially during the Vedic period) elevated the feminine virtues, allowing them to own property and to serve the goddess as priestess.

Celts prized strong women, who fought along side the men in war. Celtic women could own property and serve the goddess as priestess.

RITUAL

The central part of puja, or worship is the fire sacrifice, performed in a fire pit, with offerings of spices and rice, accompanied by chanting.

The focal point of a Celtic ritual is the fire, in a central pit. Offerings to the gods of food and wine were thrown into the fire, usually with chanting.

ETHICS

The Vedas show a special appreciation for honesty, even as a supernatural power. Honor and Eloquence are highly valued

The Celtic sense of Honor is strong and deep. Truth-sayers and orators were held in the same respect as kings among the Celts.

also remember ARYA relates to EIRE

synergy777

29-05-2008, 06:30 PM

http://www.geocities.com/indianpaganism/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/indianpaganism/celticvedic.html

The Celtic Vedic Connection: Part I

Of all the great ancient cultures perhaps no two share more parallels than those of the Celtic and Vedic peoples. A deep rooted affinity runs between them, what is present in one is mirrored in the other. Myths, Gods, Goddesses, even fairy tales bear a striking similarity in these archaic reflections of one another.

This is the first of two articles introducing the connection between Celtic and Vedic religion, society and folklore. In this and the following article the many similarities between the two cultures will be explored in a comparative context. For easy reading I have separated this article into several categories. These are the Druids & the Brahmins, Gods & Goddesses, Danu in Celtic & Vedic Myth, Places of Worship and Celtic & Vedic Fairies. Each of these topics only skims the suface and future further research will undoubtly reveal much more into the parallels of these two great cultures. It should be stated that for the sake of not complicating matters most of the Celtic references in this article are Irish. Although Celtic religion and culture varied from country to country this has not been discussed as this article is only an introduction to this field. Though it is worth noting that the various Celtic peoples were not a uniform culture.

The Druids & the Brahmins

The easiest of parallels to be drawn between the Celtic and Vedic peoples must be that of the Druids and the Brahmins. The Druids and the Brahmins were both the priests and philosophers of their respective cultures. Both orders of priests were the wise ones of their lands, the seers and teachers, to whom warriors and kings turned for counsel and advice. They were free to wander the lands, as many of India's holy men still do, and, according to Caesar's writings, the Druids were "held with great honour by the people".

However it appears to be a gross simplification to consider the Druids one homogeneous group whose function was only that of priest or philosopher. There may have been three divisions within the Celtic religious order, that of Bard, Vate and Druid. Historical evidence of this is to be found in the writings of Strabo (40 BCE - 25 CE), 'Among all the tribes, generally speaking, there are three classes of men held in special honour: the Bards the Vates and the Druids.' However I have chosen to leave discussion of the three grades for another time as it would detract from the focus of this particular article.

The name 'Druid' is considered by some to have originated the mediterranean and the East. The first syllable of the word 'Druid', according to Pliny the Elder (1 CE), is related to the Greek word for the Oak tree, 'drus'. The root of which is 'dr' and it is to be found in several Aryan languages. The second syllable is thought to have originated from the sanskrit word 'vid', meaning 'knowledge', which is also the root of the term 'Vedas'. If this is accurate then the Druids would have been those who possess the 'knowledge of the Oak tree'. The Oak tree in Celtic myth and legend was closely associated with knowledge and wisdom. In old Irish the term 'Druid' is the plural, referring to more than one of the Celtic holy men, whereas the singular is drui. In order to avoid confusion the term 'Druid' in this article will be used to refer to a single Druid and the term 'Druids' to refer to more than one.

Like the Brahmins, the Druids wore simple clothing. The clothing of the Druids, from what evidence remains, seems to have been a white or undyed hooded robe. It is from the writings of Pliny the Elder that the image of a Druid in his flowing white robes, cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle has now became a popular image of the ancient Druids.

Druid collecting mistletoe

The clothing of the Druids is rather contrasting when compared to some of the clothing, and jewellery, found in the rest of Celtic culture. Often the textiles worn by the Celts were rich in colour and design, in particular their cloaks. The Celts were also avid wearers of golden jewellery and of their jewellery the torque is probably the most recognisable item worn. Virgil gives a classical description of the Celts in writing, "Golden is their hair, and golden their garb. They are resplendent in their striped cloaks, and their milk-white necks are circled with gold." The torque was a neck ornament of nobility, regularly made of gold, worn by males and if we look at the Gundestrup Cauldron it can also be found around the neck of Cernunnos. The Romans during their invasion of Britain were intrigued by these bold and heavy neck displays. So much so that they awarded their soldiers with them in recognition of acts of bravery.

A Celtic Torque

The Druids and their daily activities of bathing in rivers is a mirror image of the Vedic Brahmins, who bathe during the first hours of sun rise in rivers such as the Ganges. Tacitus, a Greek historian, commented on the striking similarity of the bathing Druids to the Brahmins, suggesting they were "so emblematic of the brahmins." Morning bathing in rivers remains a daily activity for the Brahmins, and many Hindus, to this very day.

The Druids and the Brahmins occupied a similar place in the social hierarchy of their cultures. Both formed not only the spiritual elite but also the intellectual caste of society. It was also common for Indian kings (known as 'Rajas') to consult the Brahmins on matters of state, as it was also for Celtic kings (Old Irish - 'Righ'; note the similarity to the Sanskrit) to hold counsel with the Druids. Celtic and Vedic society were hierarchically structured, sharing similar segregated classes of peoples. Celtic culture was a tripartite system based on the three-fold divisions of: the spiritual leaders, the Druids; the ruling/warrior class; and a class of producers which included merchants, hunters and in later periods agricultural producers.

A similar social structure was employed in Vedic society for thousands of years (India has approximately 10, 000 years of continual history during which Vedic direction seems to have been present for the majority of that time). Commonly referred to as the 'caste system', which in recent years western culture has greatly condemned, Vedic culture is distinguished by four social stratas. The Brahmins were the highly respected priestly class; there also existed a regal/military class (the Kshatriyas); merchants and agriculturalist (the Vaishyas); lastly were the labourers or the untouchables (the Shudras). This class (varna) system finds it's sanction in the Rig Veda, book 10, hymn 90:12, and it is also addressed, although less directly, in book 1, 113:6. However there are references to the various castes in other Vedic texts, namely the Yajur Veda and the Artharva Veda. Later in Vedic history, into the period of classical Hinduism, social mobility ceased to exist. It should be noted that in 1947 (CE), Article 17 of the Indian Constitution abolished the practising of untouchability in any form. However many social commentators argue that this has did little to remove the practice.

As with Celtic society Greek historians also commented and noted down their impressions of Vedic society, recorded during the unsuccessful conquest of India by Alexander the Great. Among their observations was the lack of slavery, the equal right to freedom of all people, and that warfare was restricted to the Kshastriyas (warrior class). The overall impression was one of a society with a strong sense of morality and high ethical values.

On matters of state and law parallels can be found between the Vedic system of the Laws of Manu and the old Irish system, the Laws of the Fenechus. Before the Laws of Manu, in early Vedic culture, the Brahmins were not purely a hereditary caste. A child from any caste could be initiated into the Brahmin priesthood to begin their 12 years of training. However this upward social mobility later ceased. Upward social mobility was also possible in Celtic culture as a child picked to be a Druid could be from any of the social division groupings. Caesar tells us that the Druids went through 20 years of training. Though this may have more accurately been 19 years as the Druids may have used a 19 year lunar cycle calendar (the Meton cycle).

The Druids and the Brahmins, probably because of their extensive training, were regarded as being the only ones who could perform certain rites and sacrifices. Diodorus Siculus wrote that the Celts "do not sacrifice or ask favours from the Gods without a Druid present, as they believe sacrifice should be made only by those supposedly skilled in divine communication." The Celts not only held the ritual authority of the Druids in high esteem, the teachings of the Druids were also greatly respected. Men and women, young and old, would ask the Druids to share their wisdom with them on a variety of matters. One teaching that we are certain was prominent in Celtic culture was that of the doctrine of transmigration of souls, the process of death and rebirth. This is known from recorded myths and from the Roman and Greek writings. In the Rig Veda there is no clear reference to reincarnation, yet some verses do suggest it. For example, "For thou at first producest for the holy Gods the noblest of all portions, immortality: Thereafter as a gift to men, O Savitar, thou openest existence, life succeeding life" (book 4, 54:2). It is not until the later Vedic texts, for example the Upanishads, that reincarnation is clearly discussed. Interestingly the term for soul (I use the term soul for reasons of simplicity) in Vedic literature is 'atman', whereas the Celtic term for soul is 'anam'. This similarity in language illustrates a unifiying connecton between the two cultures. However I shall discuss language more fully in the second article.

A difference between the two religious orders that is worth noting is that of the inclusion of women in Druidism and the exclusion of women in Brahminism. For history suggests that while Vedic religion and culture were patriarchal, yet Celtic culture and religion, though not matriarchal, was in no way as male dominated as it's Vedic equivalent. The role of women in Celtic culture and religion seems to have been less constrained and defined, in comparison to Vedic society. Not only were there women Druids but from written accounts it is known that women also fought in battle. Diodorus described Celtic women as being "nearly as big and strong as their husbands and as fierce."

A Druidess

Due to the cessation of the Druids a vast wealth of knowledge and wisdom has been lost. As part of an oral tradition, like the Brahmins of old, nothing was ever wrote down, all myths, laws and teachings were held to memory. Consequently with the death of the Druid order was also the death of their knowledge and wisdom. Now lost to history, perhaps the best approach in attempting to regain their lost secrets is to turn eastwards, to the Brahmins and the seers, to the Druids of India.

Gods & Goddesses

Both Celtic and Vedic cultures were closely entwined around a multifarious pantheon. The Celts had a large pantheon of which about 300 to 400 names are known to us today. Though most of these names appear only once, inscribed on alters or votive objects. Many of these deities were likely to be local forms of pan-Celtic deities. This also stands true for the Vedic pantheon, practically every deity known throughout ancient India had a local name alongside other titles which will have been in more widespread use. Often their function also slightly varied from region to region. It is interesting to note that the Celtic term for the Gods is 'Deuos' and the Vedic term is 'Devas', both terms meaning "Shining Ones".

A Celtic God that is well known today and who was also known throughout the Celtic world is Lugh (also known as Lug, Llue, Llew and Lugus). Lugh was the chief Celtic solar deity, called Lugh Lamfota meaning "Lug of the Long Arm" in Ireland or Lleu Llaw Gyffes "Lleu of the Dextrous Hand" in Wales. In Irish tradition Lugh is also known as Samildánach, "Skilled in All the Arts". The two weapons that Lugh is associated with are the rod-sling and a magickal spear. However the spear, unlike the rod-sling, possessed a life of it's own. Not only was it alive but it was driven by a thirst for blood. A thirst which was so strong that the only way in which it could be controlled was by resting the spear head in crushed poppy leaves. Lugh was the Divine leader of the Tuatha De Danann, after having proved his abilities to the king, Nuada of the Silver Hand.

The Celtic Sun God Lugh

Danu in Celtic & Vedic Myth

One of the most striking comparisons to be found between the Celtic and Vedic pantheon is that of a Goddess named Danu and the myths surrounding her (also known in Celtic traditions as Don, Dana and possibly also Anu or Ana). A Goddess named Danu appears both in Celtic and Vedic mythology. She features heavily in Celtic mythology as the Mother Goddess (and a river Goddess). She is one of the most ancient known of all Celtic Goddesses, from whom the hierarchy of Gods received it's name of Tuatha De Danann, "Folk of the Goddess Danu". Whereas in Vedic mythology the Goddess Danu gives birth to the seven Danvanas, the dark ones of the ocean. Surrounding the Goddess Danu in each culture's mythology is a similar tale of battle, each of which I shall briefly relate now.

In the earliest of Celtic documents there is the battle of Moytur fought between the people of the Goddess Danu and the Fomors. The Fomors being Celtic deities of death, darkness and the sea. They were the offspring of "Chaos and Old Night", their name being derived from two Gaelic words meaning "under sea". The Fomers were born from another Mother Goddess called Domnu whose name seems to have signified the abyss or deep sea. The battle between the Fomors and the Tuatha De Danann began at the end of summer and the beginning of winter, on the eve of Samhain (the Celtic festival of the dead). During the course of the bloody battle many were killed, including many of the chieftains. Of all the Fomors the deadliest was Balor, with his eye that could slay by merely looking upon an individual. However during the later stages of the war Lugh shouted on him and before Balor could look upon Lugh, Lugh had thrown a magickal stone at Balor. the stone struck Balor, forcing his deadly eye out through the back of his head. On falling to the ground the eye then gazed on many of the Fomors, killing them, and turning the tide of the battle toward the Tuatha De Danann. Eventually the Fomors were driven away and the people of Danu were victorious.

A similar struggle between opposing forces is to be found in Vedic mythology. This struggle was between the Adityas, the children of the Goddess Aditi, and the Danavas, the children of the Goddess Danu. The Danavas where the antithesis of all that is symbolised by the earth, the sky and the sun. This myth is referred to throughout the Rig Veda and focuses primarily on the God Indra in his victory over the Danavan God Vrtra. In the Rig Veda Vrtra is described as being a limbless dragon and the source of a great drought. When Indra slays him (Vrtra) with his thunder bolt the seven waters are released. It reads in the Rig Veda (Griffith Translation) "He slew the Dragon, then disclosed the waters, and cleft the channels of the mountain torrents." (Rig I.32.1) In the same hymn it later reads "Then humbled was the strength of Vrtra's mother: Indra hath cast his deadly bolt against her. The mother was above, the son under, and like a cow beside her calf lay Danu." (Rig I.32.9)

Danu in the Vedic myth is bondage and restraint and her son Vrtra is the constrictor. Whereas the Goddess Aditi is the Boundless and the Infinite, and Indra by using his tapas, which is represented by his lightening bolt, becomes the "winner of the light". What is to be found here in an esoteric sense is the cycle of life-giving sacrifice (slaying of Vrtra) and the birth of diversification (realeasing of the waters). It is the macrocosmic struggle between light and dark, order and chaos. While on the microcosmic level it is knowledge over ignorance. In the Celtic myth the Goddess Domnu is regarded as being of "Chaos and Old Night", the abyss, from whence came the Fomors the deities of the dark waters who were conquered by Lug, the Celtic Sun God, and the Tuatha De Danann. Again it is the light conquering the darkness. The two myths are fundamentally the same, both tell of the primordial waters, that undifferentiated state of being before the time of creation, and light emerging in triumph over darkness to allow life to flow. This theme seems to be repeated in a rather abstract creation hymn in the Rig Veda, "Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscrimated chaos. All that existed then was void and formless: by the great power of Warmth was born that unit" (X.129).

However the Celtic version of the Indra and Vrtra myth is highly anthropomorphic, far more than that of the Vedic version. This is common in myths that have spread from culture to culture over vast time periods. The original myth is often much more abstract than a version of the same myth to be found in another culture hundreds or even thousands of years later. This then suggests that if these are the same myth the Celtic version is secondary to the primary Vedic version. Further suggesting that the strong possiblity exists of Celtic religion have originated out of India. Yet much of the anthropomorphism may be due to a Christian influence which may have, as with much of Celtic myths and literature, altered them accordingly towards their own perceptions, turning Gods into mortal men.

There exists another myth that holds a similarity to Vrtra. This Celtic myth is about a race of Gods before the people of Danu called the Partholons, who also fought with the Fomors. The Partholons fought against a Fomor surnamed Cichol (or Cenchos) the Footless. It is with Cichol that comparisons with Vrtra have been drawn because of them both being of fantastic proportions and having a "Footless and handless" (RG 1, 32:7) serpent/dragon appearance.

Yet what remains unclear in exploring the Danu myths is the Goddess Danu Herself. Between the two myths Danu appears to represent both light and darkness. In the Vedic myth Danu is the mother of darkness, representative of the state of unmanifest being or She may be the mother of the forces of maya. Here Danu is the equivalent of Domnu is the Celtic myth. Whereas in the Celtic version Danu is the opposite, She is the mother of those who symbolise all that is light and lawful, the equivalent of the Vedic Aditi. This confusion surrounding Danu may be the result of migrating Vedic people out of India, travelling westward towards Europe. As with Celtic literature, Vedic literature tells of many disputes between the various peoples of ancient India. Therefore the possibility exists that the contrasting Danus are the result of a dispute between the some of the Vedic groups, or possibly a religious schism within Vedic culture. Some of these groups may have migrated westwards, taking with them their particular version of Vedic religion. Which although may contain some differences, is never-the-less fundamentally identical to the rest of early Vedic religion. Also as trade routes became more widely used cultural (including religious) boundaries became less defined, resulting in a degree of cultural fusion. This also would help to account for the spread of Vedic beliefs and deities, yet at the same time may help explain the Danu dichotomy.

Successful comparisons may also be drawn between Lug and Indra. This is partially made possible by Indra, in addition to his typical associations of rain, thunder and lightning, also having strong solar associations in the Rig Veda. Throughout the Rig Veda there are many hymns to Indra (more than any other God or Goddess) and many of these contain references that associate Indra with the Sun and light. Another parallel between Lug and Indra is that they were both not the original leaders of their respective groups. Lug was given the position of leader of the Tuatha De Danann for thirteen days by Nuada of the Silver Hand. Indra only became the chief of the Vedic Gods and the people's favourite after he had defeated Vrtra. Indra has also been connected with the myth of Tain Bo Cuailgne. Here Indra's symbolic animal representation, the bull, is compared with the Celtic bull of Quelgny. Again what is found is a solar association in both Celtic and Vedic myth.

Contemporary image of Indra

Image source - Mirror of India-

Places of Worship

Some of the most auspicious places of worship for the Celtic and Vedic peoples were rivers. As already mentioned the Celtic Goddess Danu is particularly associated with rivers, she was the "divine waters" falling from heaven. From these waters the great Celtic river, once known as Danuvius, presently known as the Danube, was created. Many rivers in Europe still owe their current name to their associations with the Goddess Danu, such as the Rhone. In both Celtic and Vedic cultures offerings were often placed in rivers and those of the Celts were especially elaborate. The Celts would often offer much of their riches and treasures, sometimes approximately 25% of a tribe's economy would be given to the Gods at any one time.

In the falling of the Danu river we find a parallel to the an India Goddess and the most holy of rivers in India today, the Ganges. In Puranic mythology the Goddess Ganga's fall to earth was broken by the matted locks of Shiva (known as Rudra in the Vedas), who then released her to fall on the earth. The river which is venerated in the Rig Veda is that of the Sarasvati. Like Danu and Ganga, Sarasvati is the name of a Goddess, as well as a river. However the Sarasvati river is thought to have dried up and it is from that time the Ganges has fulfilled her river role.

Sarasvati

Some astounding ancient structures to be found in the Eurpoean lands of the Celts and in India are those of Dolmens. A dolmen is a shallow chamber that is composed of tall vertical upright stones, forming the walls, and a horizontal stone resting across the top to form a roof. Similar to what is found at Stonehenge, though on a much smaller scale. A feature found in some dolmens in both Europe and India is a small single hole in the back of these stone chambers. What the purpose of these small holes is remains unknown, as does the purpose of the dolmens. Though most interpretations link these holes either with birth or death. Most Celtic researchers seem to agree that these structures were created by a Megalithic people prior to Celtic culture, about whom little is known for certain. Is it possible that these Megalithic people had contact with Indian culture long before the Celts and is this why these constructions are to be found in both eastern and western lands?

Stonehenge - A lost Vedic connection? >

Another of the sacred dwellings was that of specific areas of woods and groves. According to Tacitus the "Woods and groves are the sacred depositories; and the spot being consecrated to those pious uses, they give to that sacred recess the name of the divinity that fills the place, which is never profaned by the steps of man. The gloom fills every mind with awe; revered at a distance and never seen but with the eye of contemplation." Similarly there are many Indian tales of Brahmans and holy men who lived in forests of which some were especially sacred spaces (see inf. on the Sleshmantaka Forest in 'The Horned God in India & Europe' article). A selection of Vedic texts written after the four main Samhitas (the Rig, Sama, Yajur and Artharva Vedas) are the Aranyakas, meaning 'forest treatise'. Indicating that these were composed in the reclusive depths of the forests.

Celtic & Vedic Fairies

Celtic stories are well known for their fairy folk, the little people who inhabit trees and hills. Sometimes they were the source of mischief or misfortune, other times the were advantageous and benevolent. The stories tell us that they delight in music and loved to dance. The Celtic fairies (also called Sidhes) often blended in myth with the Gods and like the Gods the fairies knew magick, fought wars and married amongst themselves.

In Vedic culture fairies are called yaksas. This is the collective name of the mysterious little Godlings or sprites that inhabit the fields, forests and jungles. Like Celtic fairies the yaksas could be either beneficent or malignant. They were offered propitiation which was meant to keep them in good relations with the village folk. The yaksas seem to have been vegetal Godlings of Indian rural communities, stretching as far back as pre-Vedic times. Although they were rather ignored in the scriptures there are references to them in the Artharva Veda. The yaksas are asked to give freedom from distress (book 11, 6:10) and they are also spoke of in a passage about creation (book 10, 7:38). The yaksas are also referred to in the Artharva Veda as 'itarajanah', meaning the 'other folk'. At some time these Indian fairy folk must have been widespread in Vedic folklore, evident from their spread into Jain and Buddhist mythology. However much folklore has been lost on the yaksas, either it has been absorbed into sectarian deities or suppressed in later Vedic times. Yet some yaksas remain represented in shrines throughout India, an example of which is the yaksas Purnabhadra near Campa, which is described in the Aupaptika Sutra. Situated in a grove underneath an asoka tree is a black, octagonal altar. Carved into the side of this altar were figures of men, bulls, horses, birds, wolves and snakes, perhaps illustrating some myth or legend.

Supposedly the favourite of the yaksas' locations is in a rural village's sacred tree. Here they would be safe from harms way and it was believed that having the yaksas there was prosperous for the village. Offerings and tiny gifts would be laid at the trunk of the tree, while flower garlands would be hung from the branches. There was also a fertility association with the yaksas in the sacred tree. As were there also associations of treasure buried at the tree roots, again like some of the Celtic fairies.

In the next article on the Celtic Vedic connection other areas, such as ways of worship, language, and cosmology, will be explored.

synergy777

29-05-2008, 06:32 PM

http://www.gaeltacht.info/hindi_de.html

Paper II: Irish and Hindi: linguistic Connections
[1] Gaelic and Hindi
Irish is perforce the most westerly and Hindi the most easterly of the Indo-European languages of today. One might imagine that, perhaps five thousand years after the split between the western and eastern halves of the great Indo-European family, when the forebears of the Gael and the Hindu went their separate ways, not much would be left to bind them culturally or linguistically.

For example, as the Celtic and Germanic languages differentiated, tribes of one subgroup remained near those of the other (please see Paper I on this website). One may expect that this influenced the process of linguistic differentiation. No such environment attended the development of the Celtic and Hindu peoples.

The early Celts themselves split into the q-Celts (the Irish and Scots and Manx - who could not say ‘p’) and p-Celts (Britons and Bretons - who could not say ‘q’). Indeed, the Gael at first pronounced the Saint’s name ‘Patricius’ as ‘Quotricious’. Indo-Iranian splintered into Sanskrit, which gave Hindustani and Bengali, and Zend, which gave Persian. Given the historic pre-eminence of the Vedic Arians who had come to India, Hindi was introduced as a culturally pure language, based on Hindustani and Sanskrit, some 150 years ago.

The Sanskrit raj, Latin rex and Celtic rix all mean king: they derive from an earlier proto-Indo-European word of the same meaning. The significance of kingship varied in Indian, Roman and Celtic societies, according to the social practices which developed. Up to the period of Indian colonisation, the experiences of the two peoples were altogether different and all possibilities of interaction had remained fairly remote.

[II] The Point of Separation between the those going east and those going west
Certain evidence supports the postulation of a major separation in the Indo-European family, in the region of the Caucasus, following migration from between the Tigris and the Euphrates. It has been suggested that the place, where the split to east and west occurred, cannot be identified with any certainty. The restricted possibilities for comparing linguistic roots for flora and fauna in Sanskrit and in western languages have not led anywhere.

The Celts are said to have come originally from Scythia, which lay just west of the northern reaches of the Caucasus mountains and north of the Black Sea. Gaelic mythology, a form of oral history, would support this.

Races with Indo-European origins are sometimes called Aryans. This term, from the Sanskrit 'ārya' (of noble birth), most accurately applies to peoples who speak Iranian and Indic languages.

In any event, groups of Aryan stock may have proceeded northwards between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Those who maintained this general direction came to be called Slavonic. When permitted by the topography, others went east to Persia and India whilst a third group went west to Scythia to become Proto-Celts and, in a later split, early Celtic and Proto-Germanic people.

In the case of ancient Gaelic culture, important clans (or tribes) were accompanied by other clans, which had specific occupations, such as law and medicine. In accordance with such norms of tribal society aboriginal tribes may occasionally have allied themselves, for one purpose or another, with the migrating and culturally advanced Aryans.

A tribe called the Sami, in the North of Finland, may be the last true European tribe. In India, tribal people and descendents of the lower castes maintain some separation from the descendents of the Vedic Aryans and their accompanying tribes.

[III] Mahatma Ghandi
A great indication of the long-lost comradeship between Celt and Hindu came in the modern day when Mahatma Ghandi could say that he took inspiration in bringing about Indian independence from the struggles of the Irish people. At the time, the British Empire was spread across the globe. Our country, of insignificant proportions, had caught the special interest of this great and spiritual leader.

[IV] Keeping the Gaelic and Hindu Heritage
Although for a long time far apart on the basis of geological longitude and latitude, both Gael and Hindu nonetheless did maintain their fundamental characteristics of race. This meant that, whatever happened to them, careful comparison of these would still reflect their common ancient history.

The Hindu today occupy the Subcontinent of India. The Gaelic homeland is called the Gaeltacht (formerly written as Gaedhealtacht). Today this territory extends only to seven small areas in Ireland and occupies (by legal definition) some 9.9% of the country. The historic Gaeltacht covered all of Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man, in a loose political federation with close cultural ties. What is left of the Scots Gàidhealdacht has no legal standing and ranges through the northern Highlands and Islands of that country. The language of the Isle of Man was a dialect of Irish and is no longer spoken.

The construction of deep, rich cultures marked both India and the historic Gaeltacht. The guiding principle of philosophy and religion nurtured this, in all levels of society, not merely in the ruling castes. The ancients, observing nature and drawing from its lessons, wove the mythologies with skill and in such manner as to give guidance and true meaning to the lives of the generations to come. The sagas of the Gaelic and Hindu gods are outstanding and compelling narratives.

Both cultures pioneered the use of uniform script in their respective regions. The Irish drew upon the Roman, Greek and Arabic alphabets. India developed it’s own script, the great beauty of which reflects the importance given to the written word. Scholarly literature in Sanskrit and Old Irish shows the extent of social and intellectual development achieved.

- Mythological Links
Hindu, Celtic, Teutonic and Greek mythologies contain the same conceptual groundwork. Like Vedic Brahmans, Celtic, Norse and Latin poets imagined the sky, sun, moon, earth, mountains, forests, seas and underworld to be ruled by beings like their own temporal chiefs but more powerful. In each culture, the powers of nature are personified and given human form.

Perhaps the best developed in Western Europe, Gaelic mythology has retained or developed stories which refer to the eastern family. The first Irishman was a Scythian king called Fenius Farsa. He was overthrown and fled to Egypt. His son, Niul, married the Pharaoh’s daughter Scota (i.e. the scythian's wife): she had a son called Goidel, after whom the Gael (formerly written as Gaedheal) are called. In the fifth century BC, Egypt was part of a Persian Aryan empire, which stretched as far east as the Punjab (Celtic Myths and Legends by Charles Squire - Parragon (2000)).

There is the use of art elements like the sun symbol of Brigid, a Celtic Goddess of Fertility and other attributes. Nowadays, this swastika has come to have Christian significance in Ireland - as St Brigid’s Cross. In India, this author has seen reports of a corresponding sun-symbol being used in a rural marriage ceremony, not far from Delhi. An association may exist with the Sanskrit Brhaspati. Other common elements of pre-historic art may be found today in the ethnic jewellery of the two countries.

Medb is one of the Celtic goddesses of Dawn and Dusk. Heinrich Zimmer and Kuno Meyer both thought this name to have been carried by an historical queen of Connacht. That is probably true but does not mean that she did not don the mantle of a legendary figure, as great leaders are sometimes wont to do. The name has been related to the Sanskrit madhu (‘honey’or ‘sweet drink’). In India madhu is also one of the Daityas, a clan of demons.

Indian mythology includes tales of humans taking on animal forms. In parallel, one of the Three Sorrowful Tales of Erin tells the Fate of the Children of Tuireann. There was enmity between Cian, the father of Lug, and the three sons of Tuireann. As he prepared for the battle of Mag Tuired, he saw them approach and, outnumbered, he changed his shape into a pig. However, Brian changed his brothers Iuchair and Iucharba into hounds, attacked and speared it.

Cian requested to be returned to human form before he died. He was then slain and an éiric (blood fine) was placed upon the brothers. This involved obtained the ‘spear of Assal’, the spear of the King of Persia, amongst several other tasks.

Briciu Nemthenga (Briciu of the Evil Tongue) has been compared with Loki, a mischief-maker of the Germanic pantheon of gods. The story of the Feast of Briciu tells of the ‘Champion’s Covenant’ - the wager with the Bachlach (giant). He had wandered through Alba, Europe, Africa and Asia, in search of Honour by making clever wagers {A Guide to Irish Mythology by Daragh Smyth - Irish Academic Press (1998)}. It may be considered that the ancients did, indeed, travel quite widely.

- Musical Links
In music in both India and Ireland, the use of memorised patterns continues today.

In the case of Irish sean-nós singing, songs are composed to tell tales of long ago and committed to memory. This form of music is very old and, elsewhere in Europe, would appear only to persist in isolated parts of Sicily. If not deriving from North Africa directly, the art form may share a common origin with Arabic music in the Middle East.

Hindu singing (another form of chant) is of religious significance. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu practised Kīrtana, teaching that the Hindu chants the name of the Lord Krishna, in the perspective that the name of the Lord and the Lord are not different. Fixing his mind on the Supreme Lord, he can attain Krishna consciousness (Bhagavad-Gītā as it is by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda). By carrying his meditation into daily life, he becomes a properly disciplined and focussed person.

Sitar music is not written but is composed as the musician plays. He will need to study the instrument intensively for twenty years to gain a sufficient mastery. The sitar may have come to India in the 13th century from Iran (seh – three, tar – string - as in guitar). The instrument was modified to cope with the idiom of even more ancient Indian music.

- The legal Systems
Prior to being invaded and conquered by the English, both countries had well developed legal systems and relatively stable government. Ireland operated a modified democracy under the Brehon Laws (A Guide to early Irish Law, Fergus O’Kelly - Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, 2001). These were advanced in concept and gave a strong legal position to women. They were expressed in Celtic idiom.

The Brehon Laws were expressed in an idiom which suited the social strucures of the day. To read them without this understanding, as has been done, can lead to misunderstanding and sometimes to misplaced criticism. In a similar way the history of the Gael, as provided by mythology, has been cristicised as being inaccurate especially when it comes to dates recorded and to the existence of more than one version of an episode. Again, this criticsim is as unfortunate as that which decries the Christian Bible, because of scientific inaccuracies in it.

It must be understood that the ancients knew their craft. They were composing stories which they knew would be told and retold, for thousands of years. These storytellers wanted to record the essential facors and principles of change. The way in which they did this reflects both their high minds and intellectual capacities.

The Brehon form can be compared with that of the legal system in Asia, devised by Genghis Khan, leader of the largest land empire ever won. It has been suggested that the ‘blush fine’ was an import from the Far East. Of course, the name Genghis Khan (‘Lord Genghis’) contains the Celtic ‘ceann’, which underscores a Celtic connection (A Pocket History of Gaelic Culture by Alan Titley – The O’Brien Press Ltd (2000)).

- Enduring linguistic Connections
We can perhaps now begin to wonder whether Ireland and the Subcontinent might be somewhat closer to their common origins than we might have expected. A comparison between Irish and Hindi - looking at basic structure, phraseology and vocabulary - will provide some evidence of the enduring connections.

An important question is whether, to blur these connections, there was ever a period of cultural and linguistic decay such that, to cover lost linguistic elements, an extensive innovation followed. This did not happen with the Irish language, which today remains the dialect closest to ancient Celtic, once spoken across temporate Europe. The purity of Hindi is evident by its comparison with Sanskrit, the language of the Veda, the four books of Hindu Sacred Scripture. (The word 'vēda' means 'written knowledge'.)

In the practical task of comparing modern Hindi and Irish, prefixes and suffixes can tend to occlude the identification of root syllables. The final syllables of Indo-European words are inflected (to show case and tense) and are generally not useful for tracing connections.

Romanised script is used throughout this present paper. The Romanised system used for Hindi is not fully sensitive to the requirements of Hindi phonology.

-Basic Structure
Grammatical features in a language are not matters of everyday discussion. Many people will not have studied languages other than those of Aryan origin or those derived from this. Therefore, simple examples in Chinese (pinyin script) will be provided. This is in order to show that linguistic constructions can come about, which are completely unfamiliar, and that therefore any common usage in Irish and Hindi is not by chance but represents long-preserved connections.

dictionary of related words at link.