Cannabis does not cause schizophrenia

[drhemp]

From the IACM-Bulletin of 5 July 2009

Science: The development of the number of new schizophrenia cases in the UK does not support the hypothesis that cannabis use increases schizophrenia risk.

According to research of scientists at Keele University in
Staffordshire, UK, the incidence (the number of new diagnosed cases) of
schizophrenia in the years 1996 to 2005 does not support the hypothesis
that cannabis use increases the risk for the development of
schizophrenia or psychosis. For this study an analysis of data from 183
practices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland was
conducted. The study cohort comprised almost 600,000 patients each year,
representing approximately 2.3 per cent of the UK population aged 16 to
44. Between 1996 and 2005 the incidence of schizophrenia and psychoses
were either stable or declining.

A recently published study found that cannabis use increased fourfold
between 1972 and 2002 and 18-fold among people under 18 years of age. If
the risk of schizophrenia is elevated 1.8-fold among light users and
3.1-fold among heavy users as suggested by another study, and assuming
an elevated risk for 20 years, an increase in schizophrenia incidence of
29 per cent would have been expected between 1996 and 2005. Researches
concluded that "the causal models linking cannabis with
schizophrenia/psychoses are not supported by this study" and that "the
underlying causes of schizophrenia/psychoses remained stable/declined
over the study period."

(Source: Frisher M, Crome I, Martino O, Croft P. Assessing the impact of
cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom
from 1996 to 2005. Schizophr Res. 2009 Jun 26. [Electronic publication
ahead of print])


... but this means our Government have been lying to us?

Sorry boys and girls, but our Government are liars.

[grenadene]

I thought I was just paranoid :D

[flip side]

Cannabis is obviously ostracised for it's mind expanding potential, original thoughts and an inquisitive mind is something the UK government dont particularly like. I wonder why :rolleyes: So the UK government suggest cannabis causes schizophrenia in the hope that anyone with an inquisitive mind is dismissed as being mentally ill due to their cannabis consumption and frighten other non users to stay off the grass.

Of course, I'm not saying that only cannabis users possess original thoughts but it certainly is a key to opening the mind further.

Just my two pence on the 'schizophrenic' label.

[metacomet]

Cannabis does cause paranoia with new users though... and it can be intense.

Being stoned in public and walking through crowded areas is torturous for some individuals.... you have to develop an immunity to it.

The effects are only slightly similar to schizophrenia (if you want to really bend the definition of schizophrenic thoughts).

I will however say this:

LSD does create schizophrenia. Big time.

It might depend on the source of the Acid in question but once you drop it - if you are walking through a crowd of people everything you hear is interpreted by the mind as a message to yourself.

If people are talking to eachother about how they need to do this or that 'I need to bring my tools up from the house' - the schizophrenic quality of acid interpret it as 'This guy walking past us is a tool. He should go back to his house.'

It's not just that you mishear things, it's that everything becomes directed at you specifically. This is schizophrenia.

Leave it to a military created drug to do that :rolleyes:.

Natural drugs like cannabis or mushrooms tend to do something else... you feel the natural environment communicating to you, as opposed to dwelling so much on other people's speech. And instead of feeling harshly judged or being the topic of discussion, on shrooms, any topic becomes relative to your entire life experience.

If you are on shrooms and someone says 'The sky is so beautiful tonight' - they can be completely sober but you feel that the universe is speaking through them, to put the aknowledgement in your head, that "yes, I have made the sky especially beautiful for you tonight".

When on shrooms, wind can rustle the grass and you interpret the grass moving as a dance for you to witness. It's profound.

So much better than Acid.

Kind of straying off topic, sorry. But I am very interested in schizophrenia and drugs and what we can learn from the two in relation to eachother. It's all about perspective of how the 'I' or the 'ego' is being communicated to by life.

[drhemp]

They lost the argument for prohibition and the tide was turning for the re-legalisation of cannabis, but the New World Order didn't want this, so they made up this rubbish about cannabis in a feeble attempt to justify the continuation of their failed policies.

[deafbred]

through fear and arrow slings of judgments..... people in the wrong, singing their profane song, bringing to nothing, what IS, so they can rule on the rubble of what was your former potentialed life, bringing strife, in the night, their plight is that you are to free. free to be, you could see, their deeds, they tare at your feet, all kinds of decete, creed of created wicked chickens, unable to face themselves, so they put you on a shelf, pelting you with rocks, so they can dance aloof in their loft of crock


metacomet - sorry not for your post, im glad you took the time to make it. i read the whole thing. very interesting.

drhemp- they definetly don't want to legalize weed for sure- they want to keep us deaf dumb blind and stupid.. we are more easily managed and CONtrolled that way- weed counter acts ALL the nonsense- it changes the pace of the RAT race- slows things down so you can see what happening all around. actually... it doesn't so much slow things down.. as it allows you to SEE more in the inbetweens of what is happening in the constant flow of life in the fast haste -Now- ~always,

because information input is stablized and you are able to manage the many thoughts, influences, insights and going on's in the working world around you, which in turn makes us more strong, stabilized, informed- spiritually and physically, structured strong legged foothold, pillared legs unable to be toppled into a cage of fascism, to see and ---hear------ the lie infront of our face, able to think less shallow and obscure, to make more wiser decisions, a buffer to stop the flood of chaos our lives seem to be made to be now a days in a society sea wave sickness intentionally "set up" to compromise us all so we live not freely, because if we did... there wouldn't be any room left for the ignorance which is currently blooming the enslavement finalie we see TOday

[runlikehell]

I will however say this:

LSD does create schizophrenia. Big time.

It might depend on the source of the Acid in question but once you drop it - if you are walking through a crowd of people everything you hear is interpreted by the mind as a message to yourself.

If people are talking to eachother about how they need to do this or that 'I need to bring my tools up from the house' - the schizophrenic quality of acid interpret it as 'This guy walking past us is a tool. He should go back to his house.'

It's not just that you mishear things, it's that everything becomes directed at you specifically. This is schizophrenia.


If you are on shrooms and someone says 'The sky is so beautiful tonight' - they can be completely sober but you feel that the universe is speaking through them, to put the aknowledgement in your head, that "yes, I have made the sky especially beautiful for you tonight".

When on shrooms, wind can rustle the grass and you interpret the grass moving as a dance for you to witness. It's profound.

So much better than Acid.


I know a guy in his fourtys im afraid he's a bit retarded, very timid and shy who got bullied from some people he hung out with in pubs he went to.

he's is not normaly aggressive but, he onetime he took an acid, and was walking about giving people a telling off and threating them for taking the piss outta him

Basicly his trip was that he was normal (Normal because the way he was being treated isent normal, it was awful) he found confidence, was out going, out spoken, stuck up for himself, and was chatting up the women! the change in him was absolutely amazing!

Best of all he managed to hold on to some of the possitive aspects still to this day.

[truedruid]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-great-cannabis-debate-50-top-experts-confirm-mental-health-risk-459458.html

The great cannabis debate: 50 top experts confirm mental health risk
I believe this is whats causing mental illness. One psyhcologist will say cannabis does not cause mental illness, but the powers to be will pay fifty to say it does. This is the biggest conspiracy there is.

P.S Dont bother reading the link it claims skunk is stronger than resin. Top experts, maybe they need to do some homework.

P.P.SLSD does create schizophrenia. Big time.LSD was created to help with schizophrenia, I don't think you mean causes schizophrenia, you mean great trips.

[deafbred]

...Basicly his trip was that he was normal (Normal because the way he was being treated isent normal,

:) "guilty because they say you are guilty" but they are guilty because 'THEY' are in THE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

crossing the line


wow next time someone makes fun of me, imma remember this.. I am normal...because.... the way i am being TREATED.. ISN'T NORMAL!!!!!!

So true!

[elixirsoo]

For me the great bugbear in any discussion regarding cannabis is that their is seldom any distinction made between the various kinds. I have never had any problems at all with smoking grass, i.e. plain leaves. Bud is totally different and I avoid it like the plague. Resin has too many unknowns and I tend to avoid that too.

Until people actually specify what their version of cannabis is the whole debate seems rather pointless... Any response on the validity of my point are very welcome, because I do believe this is a big barrier in the debate. :)

[supertzar]

I would be willing to bet all my money that Cannabis helps a huge number of people to manage their schizophrenic tendencies as well as other mental health diseases and disorders.

[gremlin]

it does cause schizophrenia:D

[eternal_spirit]

I've seen far more paranoid schizophrenic behaviour from alcoholics.

[danceswithbunnies]

Civilization causes schizophrenia...

In fact because we have one of the most repressed societies, and the most surveiled in the history of the world...with more retarded laws circumscribing your every move...it has pretty much squeezed the life out of Humans altogether..might as well have aplanet full of robots.

Society and civilization as UNNATURAL as they are, is what is cauusing the huge unprecedented increase in mental aberration.

If anything, smoking pot would probably alleviate that effect.

[lester diamond]

I have smoked cannabis for 18 years and have no mental health issues whatsoever, so saying cannabis causes schizophrenia is bullshit. If it did surely i would be suffering in some way as i have smoked cannabis daily for years on end. The truth is cannabis (and lsd) are very subjective substances and each person has a different experience when taking them and different after effects. To make a definitive statement that they cause a disease is just plain stupid, its like saying everyone who drinks alcahol will become violent its not true. Medical studies and such are not very reliable either as the dont take other factors into account such as the use of other drugs or existing mental health issues and you need to look at who is funding the study and what agendas they have.

[eternal_spirit]

Also just because someone is schizophrenic and they use cannabis doesn't prove that it's cannabis that caused their schizophrenia. Other factors are the cause.

Schizoid episodes I think I read can happen to anyone, it's like having a short term bout of schizophrenic symptoms and behaviours, which only lasts for short periods then subsides, although some people can have repeats of these episodes all their life.

There's a fine line between spiritual experiences and schizophrenia. It's argued they are one in the same.

Psychic enhancemnets from cannabis, opening the third eye etc. It can have better results for some people than meditation and indeed alters the frequency of brainwaves and alters brain chemistry, thus altering and enhancing perceptions.

[kingmob]

Schizophrenia is just a disbalance between Right and Left hemispheres of your brain. Most schizos are either completely operationg on the left side or right, and have no linkage between.

[deca]

canabis does not cause schizophrenia ether does LSD

you might have similar symptoms taken these that might get you miss diagnosed or if you do get diagnosed as a schizophrenic and you have a history of taken Drugs they will put it down as a contribution factor.....they don`t know what cause "schizophrenia" there is no single cause it a collection of disorders and behaviors.

LSD makes you hallucinate for a few hours(12ish) then wares off

cannabis might effect your short term memory with prolonged use

both pro badly change your views and opinions and behavior .
If you party and abuse any sort of drug you might find it hard to adjust back it so called normal life.
and have psychological and socially problems and if you find your self under psychiatry they will tell you are mentally ill if they are outwith the so called norm and give you a box of pills and a label


Signs and symptoms

A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may demonstrate auditory hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized and unusual thinking and speech; this may range from loss of train of thought and subject flow, with sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence, known as word salad, in severe cases. Social isolation commonly occurs for a variety of reasons. Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia, as are symptoms of paranoia from delusions and hallucinations, and the negative symptoms of avolition (apathy or lack of motivation). In one uncommon subtype, the person may be largely mute, remain motionless in bizarre postures, or exhibit purposeless agitation; these are signs of catatonia. No one sign is diagnostic of schizophrenia, and all can occur in other medical and psychiatric conditions.[4] The current classification of psychoses holds that symptoms need to have been present for at least one month in a period of at least six months of disturbed functioning. A schizophrenia-like psychosis of shorter duration is termed a schizophreniform disorder.[4]

[deafbred]

"your take on the whole state of affairs"

"artificially divided"

"they really don't care"

For me the great bugbear in any discussion regarding cannabis is that their is seldom any distinction made between the various kinds. I have never had any problems at all with smoking grass, i.e. plain leaves. Bud is totally different and I avoid it like the plague. Resin has too many unknowns and I tend to avoid that too.

Until people actually specify what their version of cannabis is the whole debate seems rather pointless... Any response on the validity of my point are very welcome, because I do believe this is a big barrier in the debate. :)

sativa strains are tall lenky plants that take up to 14 weeks or more to flower

indica strains are short stout bigger leaves unlike the skinny leafs of the sativas, and take shorter time periods to bloom. 8 weeks.

sativa strain equals 'HAZE' indica strain equals ...'White Widow'

there are many types of strains in each catergorie and some are even a mix of both indica and sativa.

sativa is a head high, cerebral clear head high and is more flowing unlike indica which gives you body lock couch munchies

there is no sativa strains mainly on the streets because the growers who deal and want to make money, don't want to wait so long for sativa strains to bloom.

though the sativa strains are more valuable and desired for their high high's


there isn't much of it on the street also to because... sativa strains don't bloom as much weight as the compact denser indica strains.

there has even been cases of people adding glass beads to bags of weed to get it to weigh more for profit.

right now as it is, society doesn't have much access if any to sativa clear head high strains.

the new world order, "wants to control your intelect"

indica strains are a STONY STONED feeling.. you can't really think flow free as much with indica strains because its such a stoney cloudy type body high that makes you like a statue

it harder to talk and hold conversations on indica where as sativa is so... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~free flowing, high, that allows you to not get caught up in the stonery aspects the indicas deliver to punch your body to a slower physical state of globby like movement where it is harder to interact with the more fast paced world. indica's tend to... suck the energy out of you where as the sativas give you energy and vibe a higher high because of the higher wavelength growth telemetry its on.

as it is now, society is HELD in a indica world. this is why we get all the judgments in movies like "your a stoner" "your dumb" "your slow" ...all those stereotypes that box us in to make it seem like weed is a bad thing.

indica strains help kill the pain in the body, and make it so you can't feel the body as much, so as you can imagine.. this would change and effect interactions in the un-weeded world.

but sativa.. doesn't do this AT ALL. you inhale it.. and it doesn't hindure your speech or talk. it actually gives you energy. livens you up. its a clearer high than indicas, as i have stated. that is why they call it a cereberal head high.

it a real high. not a body high. but an aspect high that ..is way more clear on the different levels of weed inhalation high's.

the weed on the street is like cardboard. mostly people should smoke cardboard because the weed on the street (indica) even though weed.. isn't grown right, has nutrients in it that wern't flushed out from the plant leaf material and.... wasn't grown right to full potential. so not to mention the fact that you arn't even getting the best potentialed indicas.. even the indicas are slopped out apon us declared a weed and by some a good weed "bomb weed" etc.. when it isn't even close to being weed at all. because..

the weed on the street is so tainted, and 'touched' so much and 'handled' that it knocks off all the trichome heads which contain the THC which 'get you high' molecularly attaching themselves to the recpetors on your brain to activate effects which are there in nature for A REASON. not TREASON. all the stuff on the earth, plants, etc, were put there for a REASON, and it is UP TO US as a "human species" or whatever you want to call "us" .... TO HAVE DOMINON OVER THE EARTH AND THE THINGS THAT CRAWL AND LIVE AMOUNGST US ON THE EARTH. So... for the Government to say that we don't have the RIGHT TO RESPONSIBILITY to control our OWN ENVIRONMENT and BODIES... is totally REDICULOUS and IGNORANT and DISORDERLY


these are what the trichomes look like, on the plant, which only bloom out on the leaf after weeks of flowering.. and which only THC fully develops in the later end stages of plant bloom growth development

http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/f1e0888f5e586efehttp://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/8885ac959381bcc8

here are the differences between indica and sativa (pictures)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2291348575_cf71082cf1.jpg?v=0

Sativa to the Left, Indica to the Right, Sativa tall lenky thin leaf plant growing in hotter climates and indica stout fat leaf short plant, shorting blooming period

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/bd000f4f3830676chttp://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/b790cff10e4f8724

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/3f7a59c144134a6a

The ONLY reason I ever smoked weed and researched it was/is BECAUSE, i was put through the DARE program in school. They said it was green stuff in a bag and very DANGEROUS. Thats all I rememberd. But when I learned it was a plant. I couldn't believe it.

A WAR ON NATURE. A WAR ON MALE/ FEMALE- A WAR ON POLLENATION, A WAR ON SEEDS, A WAR ON GROWTH, A WAR ON OXYGEN, A WAR ON SOIL, etc etc etc

indeed cured skunk is one of the finest things on the planet just got back from amsterdam on the 12th got a nice harvest coming along soon too :D

sativa's are more like a fine wine indica's are like a nice bottle of JD lol

from the effect smoking marijuana thread - http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30480&

some of posts i made der

a http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=434397&postcount=321

b http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420490&postcount=238

c http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420438&postcount=223

d http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420454&postcount=227

e http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420456&postcount=228

f http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420405&postcount=212

g http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420424&postcount=220

h http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420371&postcount=208

i http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=420335&postcount=199

j http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=435387&postcount=341

k http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=435630&postcount=358

is you skip down on this post on another thread...

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=843021&postcount=21

you will see where i touched apon 'trichomes'

[always_rebel]

Cannabis does not cause schizophrenia


I'm soooooo surprised :D









.

[elixirsoo]

"your take on the whole state of affairs"

"artificially divided"

"they really don't care"
<snip>

sativa is a head high, cerebral clear head high and is more flowing[...]there is no sativa strains mainly on the streets because the growers who deal and want to make money, don't want to wait so long for sativa strains to bloom. [...]though the sativa strains are more valuable and desired for their high high's

right now as it is, society doesn't have much access if any to sativa clear head high strains.

the new world order, "wants to control your intelect"

it harder to talk and hold conversations on indica where as sativa is so... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~free flowing, high, that allows you to not get caught up in the stonery aspects. [...] sativas give you energy and vibe a higher high because of the higher wavelength growth telemetry its on. [...]it doesn't hindure your speech or talk. it actually gives you energy. livens you up. its a clearer high than indicas, as i have stated. that is why they call it a cereberal head high. [...]it a real high. not a body high. but an aspect high that ..is way more clear on the different levels of weed inhalation high's.

[...] all the stuff on the earth, plants, etc, were put there for a REASON, [...]

A WAR ON NATURE. A WAR ON MALE/ FEMALE- A WAR ON POLLENATION, A WAR ON SEEDS, A WAR ON GROWTH, A WAR ON OXYGEN, A WAR ON SOIL, etc etc etc



Thank you for the response :)

Guess I'm coming from the Sativa viewpoint for the purposes of this thread , which to my personal knowledge has never caused schizophrenia, for me or any person I have known. :)

There is definitely an agenda to restrict personal choice in so called 'substance' abuse. There are restrictions on the sale of all seeds for edible plants too.

The passing down of knowledge has been all but destroyed in so many areas of our lives... War has, imo, been declared on the human race.

[whiterain]

Cannabis does cause paranoia with new users though... and it can be intense.

Being stoned in public and walking through crowded areas is torturous for some individuals.... you have to develop an immunity to it.

The effects are only slightly similar to schizophrenia (if you want to really bend the definition of schizophrenic thoughts).

I will however say this:

LSD does create schizophrenia. Big time.

It might depend on the source of the Acid in question but once you drop it - if you are walking through a crowd of people everything you hear is interpreted by the mind as a message to yourself.

If people are talking to eachother about how they need to do this or that 'I need to bring my tools up from the house' - the schizophrenic quality of acid interpret it as 'This guy walking past us is a tool. He should go back to his house.'

It's not just that you mishear things, it's that everything becomes directed at you specifically. This is schizophrenia.

Leave it to a military created drug to do that :rolleyes:.

Natural drugs like cannabis or mushrooms tend to do something else... you feel the natural environment communicating to you, as opposed to dwelling so much on other people's speech. And instead of feeling harshly judged or being the topic of discussion, on shrooms, any topic becomes relative to your entire life experience.

If you are on shrooms and someone says 'The sky is so beautiful tonight' - they can be completely sober but you feel that the universe is speaking through them, to put the aknowledgement in your head, that "yes, I have made the sky especially beautiful for you tonight".

When on shrooms, wind can rustle the grass and you interpret the grass moving as a dance for you to witness. It's profound.

So much better than Acid.

Kind of straying off topic, sorry. But I am very interested in schizophrenia and drugs and what we can learn from the two in relation to eachother. It's all about perspective of how the 'I' or the 'ego' is being communicated to by life.

hi meta. yeah that freaked me out about acid, which was odd for me cos im very used to being stoned in public, at work, while piloting, while....... :D

[whiterain]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/the-great-cannabis-debate-50-top-experts-confirm-mental-health-risk-459458.html

I believe this is whats causing mental illness. One psyhcologist will say cannabis does not cause mental illness, but the powers to be will pay fifty to say it does. This is the biggest conspiracy there is.

P.S Dont bother reading the link it claims skunk is stronger than resin. Top experts, maybe they need to do some homework.

P.P.SLSD was created to help with schizophrenia, I don't think you mean causes schizophrenia, you mean great trips.

i agree. facing the demons is the only way to realise what they are and take their power away

[diamondgeezer]

I know a guy in his fourtys im afraid he's a bit retarded, very timid and shy who got bullied from some people he hung out with in pubs he went to.

he's is not normaly aggressive but, he onetime he took an acid, and was walking about giving people a telling off and threating them for taking the piss outta him

Basicly his trip was that he was normal (Normal because the way he was being treated isent normal, it was awful) he found confidence, was out going, out spoken, stuck up for himself, and was chatting up the women! the change in him was absolutely amazing!

Best of all he managed to hold on to some of the possitive aspects still to this day.

Yep I've seen acid do that for someone, the circumstances were very similar and the positive effects remained with him too. From what he's said to me about it I think the experience broke through all sorts of hang-ups & insecurities he'd been carrying around for years, a mental spring-clean if you like. He saw things as they really are & realised that the people who were bullying him were lower than him, he saw them for what they really were. He said to me that it made him realise that no-one can hurt you if you have the truth with you. What a wonderful positive thing to get from a trip eh.

I've seen psychedelics do negative things to people as well though, and if someone's a bit fucked up to start with they can REALLY make things worse imo, even the 'natural' ones like shrooms. Acid goes deeper than any tho methinks, so is probably more dangerous in its unpredictability.

[the nine]

For me the great bugbear in any discussion regarding cannabis is that their is seldom any distinction made between the various kinds. I have never had any problems at all with smoking grass, i.e. plain leaves. Bud is totally different and I avoid it like the plague. Resin has too many unknowns and I tend to avoid that too.

Until people actually specify what their version of cannabis is the whole debate seems rather pointless... Any response on the validity of my point are very welcome, because I do believe this is a big barrier in the debate. :)

this is mainly chlorophil..its the thc concentrate around the buds and tips of the bud leaves which gert you stoned...have you ever been actually stoned and why do you even bother smoking the plain leaves of cannabis..it has very little affect, it almost like saying you like vodka and orange, but you only mix 5ml vodka to 3 litres of orange...?

[vreeswijk]

considering that cannabis can be a doorway to intense neurosomatic experiences/rapture, i definitely believe that it can give the unprepared person overwhelming experiences that would result in being diagnosed as schizophrenia by the mental health establishment.

do i think cannabis is a bad thing because of this? definitely not. i'm just saying that it needs to be treated with a level of care an respect so that psychic centers aren't blown wide open when a person has not been prepared for the experience.

[illuminumnuts]

I believe there is an agenda against ecstasy, but i'm not so sure about cannabis. Most of the stuff I have seen in the media just stipulates that taking a lot of strong cannabis at a young age can increase the chances of developing mental problems. Moreover, the message is that this is only likely in a small percentage of the population that are already susceptible to such effects. I've never really seen it as scaremongering, like with ecstasy and terrorism. As a lot of young people are now taking strong cannabis I believe it is a message that needs to be in the public arena. I can personally testify about the bad effects too, though it is a long time ago now.

[kweli]

Now where's krakhead in this thread? I remember debating this stuff with him some time back.

[nosferatu_dj]

the ONLY! so called side affects people get from weed, the bad ones.. are caused by the person using it.

IF you think you are going to feel paranoid and all the rest, then most the time you will be.. it is because you convince you're self of this.
it has been taught to you from birth that weeds is a evil and bad drug that will fuck you up..... so you're brain just follows this pattern of thought and this is when people freak out.

i can make myself freak out and go paranoid n all that IF i allow myself to get stuck in thought of how i am feeling.. i create my own feeling of being REALLY high. then depnding on how i think is how i my mind reacts.
if i start to think OH shit i am so high, this is no good, i should not be this high, is this normal, oh no they where right i am freaking out... this is just you're own mind creating you're own reality.

BUT if you are to just go with the flow and understand that the feelings you are haveing is NORMAL.. it is what is supposed to happen and it is not dangerus or bad.... you will start to feel the true affects from the weed.

[illuminumnuts]

That theory doesn't really hold when you suffer for months after stopping consumption of cannabis. It might only be a small minority of heavy teen users that make up the bulk of those who suffer, or begin to suffer as teens rather, but suffer they do. I know you only have my word on this, but I have lived it and it is horrible. It is 15 years ago now for me and I am fully recovered. I will never forget what an unpleasant experience it was though.

[slodave]

... but this means our Government have been lying to us?

Sorry boys and girls, but our Government are liars.
sad but true, but, u-all out there in the U.K. don't go and feel all special. its all too common worldwide, doncha know.

[pegcityevolve]

Cannabis is obviously ostracised for it's mind expanding potential, original thoughts and an inquisitive mind is something the UK government dont particularly like. I wonder why :rolleyes: So the UK government suggest cannabis causes schizophrenia in the hope that anyone with an inquisitive mind is dismissed as being mentally ill due to their cannabis consumption and frighten other non users to stay off the grass.

Of course, I'm not saying that only cannabis users possess original thoughts but it certainly is a key to opening the mind further.

Just my two pence on the 'schizophrenic' label.Ahhhh, fantastic. I've been smoking premo grass since 15 everyday. It was cannabis that made me curious of conspiracies, and really numbs many objects in my physical field-of-view to let my mind to really drift off, even for the whole day after. Wow this is amazing news.

[slodave]

I would be willing to bet all my money that Cannabis helps a huge number of people to manage their schizophrenic tendencies as well as other mental health diseases and disorders.
i tend to agree, helpful, not at all harmfull, are you kidding. perscribe it and the headshrinkers would lose them buisness. hence, lie to the public,...."""the tool of the government, and the industry too. destined to rule, and regulate you. I'm the slime from your video. oozin along on your livingroom floor""""-----FRANK ZAPPA, GENIUS--------a quote from : i'm the slime(track) album: overnight sensation----check it out, great music, great lyrics.

[pegcityevolve]

I am bloody baked. Three hydro lung hits of AK47. Feel intense pressure on forehead, thoughts are floating up to the roof. :D

[sk8erboi]

So one study says cannabis is not linked with schizophrenia where 50 (and probably hundreds more) say that it IS linked with schizophrenia, and you all conclude that therefore cannabis is not linked with schizophrenia on the basis of ONE single study. That's a completely illogical approach.

Furthermore, just because one person has smoked pot for 18 years and never had any ill-effects does not mean that pot is absolutely safe! This is ONE person's experience and does not provide conclusive evidence on the matter! It is a mere anectdote. And while many people may have the same story in this respect, the plural of anectode is 'anectdotes' NOT 'evidence'.

The studies do NOT claim that everyone who smokes copius amounts of pot will have schizophrenia. They claim that people with a pre-existing susceptibility to developing schizophrenia are more likely to go on and develop schizophrenia if they smoke cannabis, particularly from a young age.

There is no ABSOLUTE answer as to the causative effects here- to say that Pot doesn't cause schizophrenia is as wrong as saying pot does cause schizophrenia. Many factors will predispose an individual to a greater likelihood of developing schizophrenia, this may be genetic (such as a family history), may be linked with having experienced childhood trauma, or having ADHD. Different brain chemistry caused by the above will make smoking pot incredibly dangerous for some people, and increase their likelihood of developing schizophrenia/cause its development where they otherwise would have escaped it.

So yes, Pot is ONE causative factor in developing schizophrenia. Claims that is does/doesn't cause schizophrenia are too black and white and ultimately incorrect. Do your research people!

Nonetheless, I agree that governments to a large degree discourage it's use because it can open people's minds up/offer different view points and perspectives that are unique and differing from those of the masses. This threatens control of the masses, and hence it is often discouraged. This fact does not mean however that the links with schizophrenia and pot are 'made up' and part of some big agenda. Not EVERY psychologist/psychiatrist is in the pockets of the powers that be to fabricate such studies.

Lastly, for those who believe that there is no such thing as schizophrenia, or that this is treated as an 'illness' merely as a way to yet again control the masses, I agree, but ONLY TO AN EXTENT. I once heard someone say that schizophrenia is merely 'enlightenment gone wrong' and I agree with this. I have known many a schizophrenic who posses profound psychic abilities (kundalini symptoms may also be very similar to those experienced in psychosis), the problems occur when they have so much information coming in that they are unable to distinguish the truth from delusion, and when these states of confusion endure for long periods of time interfering with that persons quality of life. Metacomet earlier pointed out how schizophrenia, particularly in a paranoid state, gives someone a completely egocentric view of everthing- they perceive everything as related to them, but related in a negative way. Schizophrenia has been described as symbolic confusion.

I believe that there are ways to treat schizophrenia that modern medicine is not using, however in today's society we are out of touch with ancient wisdom and with shamanic knowledge, we are no longe in touch with alternative means of treatment. Schizophrenics need someone to guide them through and interpret all the noise coming in so they can filter out the shit and maintain the insightful. Unfortunately in our current society, the knowlefge of how to do this seems to have been lost which I find deeply saddening.

Sorry about the length of this post!!! It's a topic that I get quite passionate about

[supertzar]

sk8rboi, the point is that the rise in schizophrenia predicted by certain studies failed to manifest. They are saying kids smoke 18 times the Cannabis they were smoking decades ago, but schizophrenia has remained steady or decreased.

[sk8erboi]

It is merely ONE study though. Without a thorough analysis of the sample of subjects used (i.e. how representative of the entire population were they), without an analysis of the means used for data collection, the data analysis undertaken etc it is difficult to take this study at face value.

In addition, different tradditions in the medical profession prevail at different times in terms of favoured diagnosis, we now have a vast array of disorders that fall under the umbrella 'schizophrenia' and include schizophrenic type symptoms- including schizo-affective disorder, bipolar, schizoid and schizotypal personality disorders etc. If more of these alternative labels get used than the label 'schizophrenia' it may look like the number of diagnoses hasn't changed/has decreased when what was then called 'schizophrenia' is now going by another label because categories of mental illness with these kinds of symptoms have been broken up into more and more sub-disorders and categories.

Further, given that today we are aware that many people will experience 'drug induced psychosis'- thanks to studies such as these- such episodes are not classed as full blown 'schizophrenia'. In the past they may have been where the links with drug use and psychotic symptoms were not so well mapped out.

[pegcityevolve]

It works great for many and not so great for others, same goes with everything.

[supertzar]

It's an analysis comparing rates of Cannabis use in the years 1972 and 2002 and the rate of schizophrenia from 1996 and 2002. That is pretty straightforward. I agree there are all kinds of confounding factors, but there is a huge margin of error. Kids smoked 18 times the pot in 2002 as in 1972, but didn't get more schizophrenia. Even if that figure of 18 times more smoking is exaggerated by a factor of nine, they still smoked twice as much as before and did not see an increase in schizophrenia. I agree that schizophrenia numbers could be manipulated, but still there is that huge margin of error.

[illuminumnuts]

I agree sk8erboi. That's why I used the terms 'suffer' and 'mental problems'. All I can say is my experience was terrible and I am very confident it was down to cannabis. It doesn't matter what label is given to it. I am not saying anyone should stop smoking pot. I just think folk, especially teens, should be aware that it can really hurt you and there isn't much of an in between on this. My advice to teens would be don't smoke it every day and don't smoke too much. If things do go tits up don't think 'Oh it can't be the cannabis'. We might just be talking about a couple of thousand kids nationwide here, but if a few of them can be spared the hell with some good info it is worth it. I don't expect any of them to just stop smoking it, even if they believed every word I said.

[deca]

look how many people with schizophrenia did not have some cannabis?
is it "passive smoking" going to be used here ?
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia/what-causes-schizophrenia.shtml
Like many other illnesses, schizophrenia is believed to result from a combination of environmental and genetic factors. All the tools of modern science are being used to search for the causes of this disorder.

Substance abuse

Some people who abuse drugs show symptoms similar to those of schizophrenia, and people with schizophrenia may be mistaken for people who are high on drugs. While most researchers do not believe that substance abuse causes schizophrenia, people who have schizophrenia abuse alcohol and/or drugs more often than the general population.

Substance abuse can reduce the effectiveness of treatment for schizophrenia. Stimulants (such as amphetamines or cocaine), PCP, and marijuana may make the symptoms of schizophrenia worse, and substance abuse also makes it more likely that patients will not follow their treatment plan.
Schizophrenia and Nicotine

The most common form of substance abuse in people with schizophrenia is an addiction to nicotine. People with schizophrenia are addicted to nicotine at three times the rate of the general population (75–90 percent vs. 25–30 percent).6

Research has revealed that the relationship between smoking and schizophrenia is complex. People with schizophrenia seem to be driven to smoke, and researchers are exploring whether there is a biological basis for this need. In addition to its known health hazards, several studies have found that smoking interferes with the action of antipsychotic drugs. People with schizophrenia who smoke may need higher doses of their medication.

Quitting smoking may be especially difficult for people with schizophrenia since nicotine withdrawal may cause their psychotic symptoms to temporarily get worse. Smoking cessation strategies that include nicotine replacement methods may be better tolerated. Doctors who treat people with schizophrenia should carefully monitor their patient's response to antipsychotic medication if the patient decides to either start or stop smoking.

Definitions - what is schizophrenia?
Schizophrenia is not an illness with a definite 'make or break' symptom (so called pathognomic features). It is rather a cluster of symptoms that tend to occur together and tend to follow a typical course and respond to certain treatments. There is no laboratory test or imaging technology that can confirm the presence or absence of schizophrenia. Diagnosis is accomplished by means of a clinical interview which aims to elicit certain symptoms which are generally accepted as being central to the illness. These symptoms are listed in diagnostic manuals such as the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association - 4th edition) and the ICD10 (International Classification of Diseases - 10th edition).

Typically there is a prodromal or pre-illness stage with self-neglect and loss of interest and drive. This progresses to so-called psychotic symptoms with delusions (beliefs which are obviously impossible), hallucinations (false sensations e.g. 'voices') and disorders of thought and speech.

In addition to these dramatic, so called positive symptoms (delusions and hallucinations), people with schizophrenia sometimes develop negative symptoms with poor motivation, emotional flatness and slowing of thought and speech.



Epidemiology - how common is schizophrenia?
About 1% of the adult population will suffer from schizophrenia at some time in their lives. This figure is surprisingly consistent between countries and cultures. The onset of schizophrenia is typically between the ages of 15 and 45 but can occur at any time from childhood to old age. The sexes are affected with equal frequency but affected males develop the illness an average of four to five years earlier than females.

Schizophrenia is more common in inner city areas than in rural areas, and this was once felt to reflect the stress of urban living (the 'breeder' hypothesis). Later work showed that affected people tend to drift into urban areas from the countryside in the early stage of their illness, thus skewing the statistics (the 'drift' hypothesis).

There is a small but statistically significant association between winter births (January to March in the Northern Hemisphere and July to September in the Southern Hemisphere). This is thought to be due to a viral cause.

Aetiology - what causes schizophrenia?


They don`t know what causes schizophrenia

schizophrenia is typically between the ages of 15 and 45 but can occur at any time from childhood to old age.

what age do people start to experiment take drugs?

many people who have had a difficult child hood or live in a stressful environment take drugs?

its PC to blame drugs
http://www.nursing.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/abuse
Childhood trauma
They argued that two-thirds of people diagnosed as schizophrenic have suffered physical or sexual abuse, indicating it to be a major, if not the major, cause of the illness. With a connection already proven between the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder and schizophrenia, they concluded that many schizophrenic symptoms are actually caused by trauma.

Schizophrenia is not an illness - but psychiatry labels the "cluster of symptoms" and call it a mental illness is it not obvious there is no single cause?
But they treat people with the "schizophrenia" label the same way...with prescribe drugs normal anti psychotic
Also once you have been diagnosed with a "mental illness" you become subjected to the mental health act.
http://www.hyperguide.co.uk/mha/overview.htm

so they will now use the fact that you smoke pot as a symptom as there is no test.
Do you smoke pot , yes/no if yes you are more likely to have a mental illness and might be a schizophrenic

Have you had any hallucinations? If you answer yes to smoking pot and this, the psychiatrists will be wounding if there's a spare bed for you!!!!

Have you felt paranoid? man you not leaving





Schizophrenia is not an illness with a definite 'make or break' symptom (so called pathognomic features). It is rather a cluster of symptoms that tend to occur together and tend to follow a typical course and respond to certain treatments.

[avi912]

[QUOTE=metacomet;1102736]Cannabis does cause paranoia with new users though... and it can be intense.

Being stoned in public and walking through crowded areas is torturous for some individuals.... you have to develop an immunity to it.

The effects are only slightly similar to schizophrenia (if you want to really bend the definition of schizophrenic thoughts).
QUOTE]

i think i know why that happens to new users. it's because the CB1 and CB2 receptors on the frontal lobe of the brain which specifically process THC have never been used before so when they are first used everything goes fkn mental. once it's used to it however it settles in and everything goes fine usually. that also fits with my personal experience

[runlikehell]

Yep I've seen acid do that for someone, the circumstances were very similar and the positive effects remained with him too. From what he's said to me about it I think the experience broke through all sorts of hang-ups & insecurities he'd been carrying around for years, a mental spring-clean if you like. He saw things as they really are & realised that the people who were bullying him were lower than him, he saw them for what they really were. He said to me that it made him realise that no-one can hurt you if you have the truth with you. What a wonderful positive thing to get from a trip eh.

I've seen psychedelics do negative things to people as well though, and if someone's a bit fucked up to start with they can REALLY make things worse imo, even the 'natural' ones like shrooms. Acid goes deeper than any tho methinks, so is probably more dangerous in its unpredictability.

Good post diamondgeezer i totaly agree with the last part, if someones unstable then it could make them worse.

I think we got to define between, whats use? and whats abuse?

[meksar]

The proposed upgrade of cannabis is what got me into this truth, it does seem to cause free thinking and critical analysis of whats really going on in the world. Being in this truth can put a lot of hate in your heart, but spark up a few nice ones and you want to love everyone who does not do harm to others.

[bornfree]

Cannabis can also lead to countless hours of navel gazing. After 20 years of pretty heavy use i cant touch the stuff anymore. palpitations, hyperventilation, panicky feelings.

But then I was using the natural stuff way back when, not like the crap thats on the streets today.

[sloppy]

Cannabis does cause paranoia with new users though... and it can be intense.

Being stoned in public and walking through crowded areas is torturous for some individuals.... you have to develop an immunity to it.

The effects are only slightly similar to schizophrenia (if you want to really bend the definition of schizophrenic thoughts).

I will however say this:

LSD does create schizophrenia. Big time.

It might depend on the source of the Acid in question but once you drop it - if you are walking through a crowd of people everything you hear is interpreted by the mind as a message to yourself.

If people are talking to eachother about how they need to do this or that 'I need to bring my tools up from the house' - the schizophrenic quality of acid interpret it as 'This guy walking past us is a tool. He should go back to his house.'

It's not just that you mishear things, it's that everything becomes directed at you specifically. This is schizophrenia.

Leave it to a military created drug to do that :rolleyes:.

Natural drugs like cannabis or mushrooms tend to do something else... you feel the natural environment communicating to you, as opposed to dwelling so much on other people's speech. And instead of feeling harshly judged or being the topic of discussion, on shrooms, any topic becomes relative to your entire life experience.

If you are on shrooms and someone says 'The sky is so beautiful tonight' - they can be completely sober but you feel that the universe is speaking through them, to put the aknowledgement in your head, that "yes, I have made the sky especially beautiful for you tonight".

When on shrooms, wind can rustle the grass and you interpret the grass moving as a dance for you to witness. It's profound.

So much better than Acid.

Kind of straying off topic, sorry. But I am very interested in schizophrenia and drugs and what we can learn from the two in relation to eachother. It's all about perspective of how the 'I' or the 'ego' is being communicated to by life.

I have smoked cannabis for 4-5 years now on and off. In my experience i can say that it effects every person differently. I believe that the cannabis is not the problem, its the other shit they spray the drug with to get you hooked or to bulk it up which causes the problem. Myself, i still dont like the idea of smoking in public because you feel so alien, and you know other people believe everything bad about the drug and you think they will treat you differently.

This is good news for the pot smokers out there though, its not a nice feeling knowing the weed can make you 'psycho'!

[deafbred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3SmHe3xS-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3SmHe3xS-k

[morrist0]

I wonder if anyone has done any research on the Rastafarian culture to see if there is evidence of rampant schizophrenia? Seeing as smoking gunja is part of their religion.

[truedruid]

No one's done any research. The mental illness scam is based on teenagaers whom begin smoking cannabis and then quit. Any teenager is emotionally unstable, add the fear that they are now mental from their use of cannabis and they will become affected. most kids are also using other drugs aswell, tell them to quit all drugs and they will feel better is a fallacy, once they do stop they suffer stress, doctors then tell them they are suffering from cannabis psychoisis. But they are not, they are suffering from growning into adults. By the way this only happens to a small propotion of kids, not adults, they know what the medical proffession are doing.

Legalise then do a study, that 's when we'll get a true research. California is nealy there and more states are following.

[1eyeopen]

Cannabis is not a harmless drug. The sale of aspirin is regulated because it is not a safe drug. No drugs, either legal or illegal, are safe. That said, one drug, Alcohol, is known to cause death, disease and metal illness yet it remains legal. If you abuse it for long enough you will become addicted, studies show heavy use for 10 years results in addiction, yet it's freely sold.


Going from that view point, how can they say any illegal drug has it's illegal status with the populations health in mind?

And besides that, it's a fucking plant. How can they make nature illegal?

If you believe in god it's like saying "Oh cannabis, yeah, god got that wrong"

Does it cause schizophrenia?

I believe it may bring a dormant mental illness to the surface allowing the sufferer to get treatment but it's certainly doesn't cause it.

I've toked daily for 8 years now and I'm fine but I'm just one person. It's what opened my eyes to the lies too.

[ronisron]

I used to know a couple of schizophrenic gents who used to use weed to control their schizophrenia, along with the haldol or whatever else that they were forced to take. I know people with depression who finds it helps them too.

Those guys were extremely insightful, and I'm not trying to be funny. They could see dimensions.

[lewi]

Lazy young adults who dont want to work use this excuse as a means to get on the sick, having tantrums and blaming cannabis.

[supertzar]

Cannabis is not a harmless drug. No drugs, either legal or illegal, are safe.

It's the safest mind altering substance in the world. I mean there is no known level of toxicity in. You would aspyxiate from lack of oxygen before you could ever die from Cannabis overdose. What more do you want?

[whiterain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3SmHe3xS-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3SmHe3xS-k

that guy is great fun to watch. wonder if he hass any opinions not formed from the word of some men 1000s of years ago tho

[tien an]

this is mainly chlorophil..its the thc concentrate around the buds and tips of the bud leaves which gert you stoned...have you ever been actually stoned and why do you even bother smoking the plain leaves of cannabis..it has very little affect, it almost like saying you like vodka and orange, but you only mix 5ml vodka to 3 litres of orange...?

Had me scratching my head in wonder too...


tien an.

[skaarlaw]

Government are liars.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fWLtJmEhLG0/SWy4IyP3_yI/AAAAAAAADVs/uUcTL59byyc/s400/captain+obvious.jpg