If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CON

[solve_et_coagula]

If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=373609&mpage=1&showdate=7/17/07&forum=1

[chandrakavi]

Christ and chhristianity are two very different things.
Christ was a Rebel, a beautiful being.
The Catholic Church was made by Paul, knowing Christ was still alive in India ,were he died of old age. Although until this day Christianity has been brainwashed to believe that he died in the cross at the age of 33.
It is known that the enlightened one is always the Master, wether he be Jesus, Buddha, Zarathsutra and many others.
When after the death of tHE master, a Holy book is made, which is always manipulated putting some things in and leaving other things out. After this the disciples ,who ARE ALL UNENLIGHTENED ,start doing things the wrong way, the opposite way of what the Master said and preached.
Christ was spiritual ,what did the Vatican and the rest do? They became political, not oriented to religion but to power.
If you are oriented to have the pope meet chiefs of states , himself acting as one ,having vote in UNITED NATIONS, then they stopped being mystics for centuries, they are with the powerful, therefore it is not difficult to see why they become cons.
Why was Pope John Paul I killed after 33 days? because he told the Maffia inside the vatican to leave ,and no longer be incharge of the finances of the Vatican, and that they would have more spiritual things to do in other places of Italy, and to meet him at 7:45 am next day. He died that very same night ,poisoned in his water glass with no taste or smell.
They have become poltical Maffias, speaking about one thing and doing another, what to say about pedophilia, the bank ambrosiano, aids started by them , homosexuality.

So this has been corruption from the start. If this is their example, and the neo cons have them as an example of corrupt survival.
It's a good thing some people for a long time know they cannot be trusted
I once saw a priest say mockingly in TV, but what about Christ? he is dead.
then what is he a priest for?
Buddha also asked never to have a statue made of him. What do we find around the world. gigantic statues of Buddha, samall, all kinds. That reverses the message. People that were with the live Master were very lucky. But being born centuries later, and having this corruption , in an organized religion seem as normal, is really a poison for the real truth
They are so, as David Icke explains, the illuminati neo cons come from Babylon, no matter what religion they profess today, these guys are on the dark side of the road.

Christians are CONFORMISTS because priests have convinced them
that they are"higher than thou" and that the organized religion has to be saved no matter what ,they have no more information, that the crooked one they get from the maffia of the soul, in a way they have been raped spiritually. Not every one can get out easily of the mass psychology that these people place over the many, since they were born, only some come out of the mass psychology and the false structure ,which is very difficult, and although false, it is easier to live not going against the current than by telling the truth. So it si up only to the rebel , to the true lions to get out of the clutches of these people, the rest, simply follow the crowd ,after all that is what society is about, after all , they think the priest KNOWS what he is doing, he is a specialist......the blind leading the blind....
It is reported that Christ said let the children come to me, meaning let the innocent minds come to me, and what the priests understood is seen in pedophilia acts. So the Politicians and the priests are in total unity to commit
murder , the politicians with ambitions of NWO, and the priests with raping peoples souls. they are in the same business, and have people under CONTROL, absolute and total mind control, so people have been MADE CONSERVATIVE by the belief of SIN, everything is a sin ,sex ,which is natural is bad. You are supposed to be fixed by these murderers.
they have gvien people the wrong kind of hypnosis, have manipulated reality, made conservative ,they don't want rebels to give them problems.
If a man is a rebel in the first place he would not be Christian ,most probalby would go to the wisdom of estern religions, tao, where the self is to be found.
As DAVID ICKE SAYS: "GOD SAVE US FROM RELIGION" I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

[synergy777]

chandra great post, you should post more bro.

jesus in india - Google Search

http://www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/1340/jesus_in_india.htm

http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/home.html

http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

http://www.jesus.com.au/html/page/jesus_in_india

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

krishna, buddha, yashuah were all from the same source, the creator.

[fantabulous]

I too focus toward Truths.

Since this is the case, the CON FORM is just not for me !

So Dark The Con Form Of Man !

[ms_moon]

I think you may all be BLOWN away by the link i am about to post as it will shatter everything said in this post- in short:

"Religion is Astrological"

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

Please enjoy
xxxxxxxxxxx

[lapis]

ms moon,

Thank you very much for sharing that link, that movie. As an astrologer I found it a joy to finally have the basics revealed; as a Lightworker I found it timely. ;)

"Light" is information and knowledge, and in our case on earth, it's information and knowledge that naturally exists outside of this controlled world. That's all "Light" is....and much of humanity is finally waking up and carrying more and more "Light" inside themselves.

Thanks again for sharing this. :)

[bigus_dickus]

ms moon,

Thank you very much for sharing that link, that movie. As an astrologer I found it a joy to finally have the basics revealed; as a Lightworker I found it timely. ;)

"Light" is information and knowledge, and in our case on earth, it's information and knowledge that naturally exists outside of this controlled world. That's all "Light" is....and much of humanity is finally waking up and carrying more and more "Light" inside themselves.

Thanks again for sharing this. :)

by what you wrote it seems to me you are a new ager, not an astrologer.

it figures.. this vid is perfect for new agers.

[ms_moon]

by what you wrote it seems to me you are a new ager, not an astrologer.

it figures.. this vid is perfect for new agers.

Cheers for that bigus_dickus...!

What did you make of the movie...?

[lapis]

It's stunning how stupid and blatantly cruel some of you people are. "Cheers".

[synergy777]

the people here reflct society, eg people who are insecure, haters, but love acting nice,lol. i guess it takes time for them to grow. most christians are cult followers, they follow doctrines without questioning, like cults. why do they not question, because their leaders/priests tell them not to, its seen as deviant, some people just love control, fear having no personal control/liberty.

yashuah would kick the arses of the priests and the sheep, for sure.

[kblood]

Christ and chhristianity are two very different things.
Christ was a Rebel, a beautiful being.
The Catholic Church was made by Paul, knowing Christ was still alive in India ,were he died of old age. Although until this day Christianity has been brainwashed to believe that he died in the cross at the age of 33.
It is known that the enlightened one is always the Master, wether he be Jesus, Buddha, Zarathsutra and many others.
When after the death of tHE master, a Holy book is made, which is always manipulated putting some things in and leaving other things out. After this the disciples ,who ARE ALL UNENLIGHTENED ,start doing things the wrong way, the opposite way of what the Master said and preached.
Christ was spiritual ,what did the Vatican and the rest do? They became political, not oriented to religion but to power.


Nice :) Never heard about the theory about Jesus going to India. That he died seemed very illogical to me. As far as I know, if he was just mortal he would have been stoned to death more than once in his lifetime. But given what he might have been, getting his body broken shouldnt be a problem for one like him. Thanks for sharing :D

I never really saw much similarity between christianity and christ either. Some of the bible simple seems an interpretation of things, and it is known to all that it has been rewritten by some who thought themselves better knowing through the ages :rolleyes:

Still so many believe in the King James something bible to be "the bible"... it was written so long after what is written as Jesus' death, that I dont really believe that at all.

[bigus_dickus]

Cheers for that bigus_dickus...!

What did you make of the movie...?

i have made many posts regarding jordan maxwell's "teachings" contained in that movie. i don't want to repeat the same things, make a search on "jordan maxwell" on the forum, or look at my posts.

the movie is pro astrology and what we call "new age" cult.

what did you make of it?

[synergy777]

he will kick arse this time, no more mister nice guy, the destroyer this time. destroy falsehood, arrogance, imperial power, corrupt hierachy, like slash and burn, before you plant new crops, the harvest is coming.

http://viewzone.com/davidkoresh.html


India's God Krishna Was the King of Jerusalem!By Gene D. Matlock


What a strange world in which we live! The Catholic Church has always known that Christianity did not begin with Jesus Christ, but yet it tries to make us think it did.

St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."

Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 AD) said: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."

In Anacalypsis, The 17th century British orientalist and iconoclast, Godfrey Higgins, insisted that Christianity was already firmly in place in both the West and the East, many centuries before Jesus Christ was born. He said, The Crestians or Christians of the West probably descended directly from the Buddhists, rather than from the Brahmins. (Vol. 2, pp 438, 439.)

The existence of the Christians both in Europe and India, (existed) long anterior to the Christian era... (Vol 2, p. 202.) I think the most blind and credulous of devotees must allow that we have the existence of the Cristna of the Brahmins in Thrace, many hundred years before the Christian era-the birth of Jesus Christ. (Book X, p. 593.)

"Melito (a Christian bishop of Sardis) in the year 170, claims the patronage of the emperor, for the now so-called Christian religion, which he calls "our philosophy," on account of its high antiquity, has having been imported from countries lying beyond the limits of the Roman empire, in the region of his ancestor Augustus, who found the importation ominous of good fortune to his government." This is an absolute demonstration that Christianity did not originate in Judea, which was a Roman province, but really was an exotic oriental fable, imported from India, and that Paul was doing as he claimed, viz: preaching a God manifest in the flesh who had been "believed in the world" centuries before his time, and a doctrine which had already been preached "unto every creature under heaven." (Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions; T. W. Doane, p. 409.)

Religious historians have for hundreds of years struggled to find out how and why the stories about Jesus and Krishna, who were born 2,000 years apart, are so nearly identical.


Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah.
The future births of both messiahs were predicted ahead of time.
Christ was descended from Abraham
Krishna was the father of Abraham (Brahma).
Christ was at once a Koresh, a Hebrew, and a Yehudi.
Krishna was at once a Kurus, an Abhira, and a Yadava.
Christ was an incarnation of Yah-Veh.
Krishna was at once an incarnation of Vishnu and Shiva.
Christ's first name, Jesus, was Yeshua.
A title of Krishna, meaning "love; devotion," was Yesu. Even today, many Hindu parents name their sons, Yesu Krishna.
Both men were born of virgins and in a stable.
Krishna's mother was named Devaki.
Jesus mother was called Mary.
Krishna did not have an earthly father as such, but a protector, named Vasudeva.
Jesus did not have an earthly father as such, but a mortal protector named Joseph.
An evil king tried to kill Christ and Krishna when they were both infants.
To protect the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary took him to Maturai, Egypt.
To protect the infant Krishna, his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, took him to Mathura, India.
It was predicted that both men would die to atone for the sins of their people.
As you have probably noticed, they took refuge in places having almost identical names.
Both men preached to their people.
Christ was crucified and then resurrected. Krishna was killed by a hunter's arrow and impaled on a tree. Later, he returned to life.
Christ was crucified in Jerusalem.
Some Hindu scholars think that Krishna died in Jerusalem, having gone there when his coastal city of Dwarka sank under the sea. Others say he went to Iraq.
Christ appeared after his "death." Krishna appeared after his "death."
Both of them have a major holiday dedicated to them on December 25th.
Christ had a female admirer named Mary Magdalene. Krishna had a female admirer named Marya Maghadalena.
Fanatically sectarian Christians and Hindus alike militantly reject the idea that the stories of these two deities are related. The Christians accuse the Hindus of blurring their identities on purpose. Some even claim that the Devil himself is the culprit.The Hindus reciprocate accordingly. Unfortunately, neither side can prove or disprove anything. In this article, I will attempt to clear up this mystery once and for all.

The Hindu Equivalent of our Old Testament Story of Abraham.

The story begins with our Abraham or Brahma as the Hindus called him. His father was Lord Krishna; his brother was Mahesh a.k.a Maheshvara who would be our Moses (Heb: Moshe).

The Hindu triad consists of the Gods Brahma, the equivalent of our God, and Gods Shiva and Vishnu. Actually Shiva and Vishnu are one and the same deities. Together, they are Brahma (God). Today, in India, there are only two temples dedicated to God Brahma because the Hindus say mankind is not yet ready to worship such a lofty concept.

Hindu Proof That Jesus Is the Son of God!

The Bible tells us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, for Jesus' biblical names are Isa/Isha (Shiva), Yeshua (Skt. Yishvara, pronounced in Sanskrit as Yeshwara), Kristos, and Yesu, another name of Krishna . Even in India, Lord Krishna was and still is called Yesu Krishna and Kristna. These names prove to us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, thus making Jesus the begotten son of the Unbegotten-Brahma.


The preceding information shows us that the Hindus are as Christian as the Christians are. Morever, the Hindus can prove that Jesus was the son of God, but we have to accept this as a matter of faith only. Even so, there is no lack of Christian sects wanting the Hindus to "convert" to their way of thinking although we must credit the Hindus with the honor of proving to us that Jesus is the son of God. But the Hindus don't need to convert to the spiritual knowledge they bequeathed to us. They were "converted" thousands of years before our Jesus was born. I say, leave them be.

Since Krishna was not born of man, he was not actually the earthly father of Brahma and Mahesh. Therefore, he himself was the protector (Tara) of Brahma. In Sanskrit, Tara means "savior; protector." It is a term generally used with the gods Rudra, Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. Even our Old Testament says that the father (protector) of Abraham was Terah (Genesis 11:26.) The Bible tells us that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings. (Genesis 12:19-20.). The Hindu holy books also tell us that a blood relationship existed between them. The Puranas relate Sarasvati to Brahma and Vishnu. Most frequently, she is associated with Brahma. Her connection with him dates earlier than to any other God. She is portrayed mostly as his wife and occasionally as his daughter. When Vishnu's popularity in India increased, myths relating Saraswati to him appeared. (Ref: Sarasvati and the Gods; www.vishvarupa.com.) Therefore, Brahma or Vishnu would also have been the Tara (Terah) of Sarasvati because of her divine origins.


Abraham or Brahma's home was the land of Haran (Genesis 1:4.) Haran was the coastal principality governed by Krishna. It was even named after him because Hara (Sun God) is another name of Krishna. Brahma/Abraham was 75 years old when he left Haran.

Just as Christ was crucified on a cross and then returned to life, Krishna, also known as Haran, was crucified on a tree and then returned to life. This fact appears to cause some confusion in The Bible. (Read Genesis 11:26-31).

There is also another "Haran" in India-today's state of Haryana. It is the region where Abraham decided to stop making idols and worship only one God. Brahmavarta, a region in Northeastern Haryana, is said to be the place where mankind was first created. (Varta=Dwelling.) Brahmavarta was the site of the Kuruksetra War between the Kurus and Pandavas, in which Lord Krishna distinguished himself. An ancient and holy river, now dried up, the Sarasvati, once flowed through Brahmavarta. The Hakra (the biblical Haggar) was a tributary of the Sarasvati. The relationships of these three geographical entities make sense. If Brahma provided the channel or bed for the Sarasvati river, Brahmavarta could easily have been the symbolical father or brother of Sarasvati. Hakra (Haggar), being a tributary of Sarasvati, depended on Sarasvati . So what were Abraham, Sarah, and Haggar? People, things, or places?


I have stated that the Bible mentions Haran and Haryana. The Hindu holy books also say that Brahma/Abrahan lived in Ur of the Chaldees. Ur was a Sumerian name for "town; city." Chaldee (pronounced Kaldee) derives from the Sanskrit Kaul, a Brahman caste, and Deva (demi-god). The North Indian Kauldevas worshiped idols representing their ancestors. According to the Hindus, Brahma married Sarasvati in Chaldea, the part that is now Afghanistan.

Northern Afghanistan was called Uttara Kuru and was a great center of learning. An Indian woman went there to study and received the title of Vak i.e. Saraisvati (Lady Sarah). It is believed that Brahm, her teacher, was so impressed by her beauty, education, and powerful intellect, that he married her. (The Hindu History, by Ashkoy Kumar Mazumdar; p. 48, in passim.) Lord Krishna, the divine father (Terah/T‚ra) of Brahma/Abraham, was the king of Haran, with the seaport of Dwarka as its capital.

In about 1900 BC, hundreds of thousands of native Indians emptied Northern and Central India and fled to the Middle East after Krishna's Dwarka sank under the water.



Krishna gathered his family together and fled either to the Middle East or to what is now Iraq. Only some gigantic natural disasters, such as earthquakes and floods could have caused such an exodus. It was at this time that the Saraisvati and the Indus changed their proper beds. The Saraisvati dried up.


The drying up of the Saraisvati... led to a major relocation of the population centered around the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys... caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece. (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p. 14.)

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood."

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood." They think he was referring to the Noachide flood. He was referring to the time when God Krishna's Dwarka and Haran province, in today's Gujarat, sank under water in about 1900 BC. Abraham, Sarah, and their followers escaped southward, to the coastal ports of Kalyan and Sopara (Sophir or Sauvira), in Maharashthra. From there, they sailed northward to the Middle East. Sarah (Sarsvati) embarked from the port of Kalyan. At one time, Kalyan was located closer to the coast, but is now located more than 50 miles inland. Sarasvati is the patron saint of Kalyan. The patron saint of Sophir or Sauvira was Parasu Rama (possibly a name of our biblical Abraham/Brahma).

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Indian Author Paramesh Choudhury, author of The India We Have Lost, claims that Krishna and his family probably fled to Iraq. But I'm certain that they went to Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is derived from Sanskrit: Yadu-Ishalayam, meaning "The Holy Rock of the Yadu Tribe." Lord Krishna was a Yadu. The Moslems still revere this huge rock under the Dome of the Rock on Jerusalem Temple Mount.



Temple [top] Mount and Dome of the Rock. Abraham's tomb.

Until now, I have been wondering why Krishna's name did not appear in Jerusalem after his arrival there. Yet, the name of the king of Jerusalem, Melchizedek, the mentor of Abraham, did. I once thought that Melchizedek was the name of a certain person. I made this mistake by thinking that a prince and a son of a Kassite king, Melik-Sadaksina, was a supernaturally endowed prince, magician and spiritual giant. I thought he had accompanied Krishna, Abraham, and Sarah to the Middle East. Later on, I came to realize that the Sanskrit word Sadhaka applies to anyone who is an adept, a magician, one possessed of supernatural powers gained by worshipping a deity or by uttering magical chants.

I have additionally shown in this article that the New Testament words for Jesus all refer to Lord Krishna and his holy names. The early Christians were convinced that Melchizedek was just a prior incarnation of Jesus Christ, The remains of the Nag Hammadi manuscript entitled Melchizedek seem to confirm this. Melchizedek, king of Jerusalem and mentor of his son Abraham, was none other than ancient India's God Krishna. The early Christians thought that Jesus was a reincarnation of Krishna, for who else had the name Yesu Kristna, Isa, Krishna, etc.?

St. Paul states in the New Testament book of Hebrews:

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. (6:20.) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him...(7:1); For he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchisedec met him. (7:;10);...what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedec...(7:11); Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (7:17);.


Melchisedek (Krishna)

In closing this article, I want to mention the dissatisfaction I have always had with fanatical religious sectarians who yell that only they are right and that everybody else is wrong. They often insult, deprecate, mock, and reject those with whom they disagree, hoping to shut the formers' mouths. In many cases, these religious squabbles over suspected "differences" cause widespread bloodshed and misery in the world. I am a Roman Catholic and proud of it. But it grieves me when I hear priests, nuns and laity preach that anyone who isn't a Catholic is hell-bound.

The word "Catholic" itself derives from the Sanskrit Ketu-Loka, meaning "Universal Leader." But how can a religion be "universal" if it is exclusive, locking out nations like India who not only gave Catholics their own bible, but even the Christ they worship? I have shown how nearly parallel our bible and the Hindu holy books concur in almost every way-linguistically, culturally, spiritually, etc. Even the incestuous relationship between Brahma and Sarasvati squares with that of Abraham and Sarah. India more than qualifies to be the real holy land of all mankind. The main differences between Christians and Hindus arise from the fact that the Hindu form of Christianity stayed behind in India, and that the western Christianity we know was exported abroad. Naturally, geographical separation has caused some variations in the two similar teachings, as well as culturally. Additionally, we have to keep in mind that for many hundreds of years, these stories were passed down orally, from father to son. Changes, embellishments, and varying opinions crept through the woodwork.

It is a strange anomaly that our Christian sects want to convert the Hindus to the same religious teachings the latter gave to the world and still practice!

I have amply demonstrated that all of us, no matter what our respective religions and nationalities, are grandchildren of India, Will this knowledge help keep us from tearing ourselves and the world apart?

Addendum:

If, until now, you are still unconvinced that Melchizedek was Lord Krishna, and that Jesus was an incarnation of Krishna (Melchizedek) as Paul himself explained, I have no other recourse but to give you solid proof directly from the mouths of the Hindus themselves! This should put an end to the question. It is a verifiable fact that one of the names of Krishna was Sadhaka. Being a king, Krishna would have been addressed as Malika (King) Sadhaka). If you are still doubtful, go to the web and type in Krishna Sadhaka. You'll instantly get all the proof you'll; ever need.

[B]Note: This article is a chapter from Gene's upcoming book, now in preparation: Searching for God -- Now a Valid Science! It will be released in autumn, 2007.

his lion brothers will gladly assist. the denial of yashuah was the denial of all of the soul in all of us, only a few follow their soul, as it brings uncomfort, rage, strength, power which they cannot fathom, handle. it makes you speak plainly to the zombies that surround us, it makes you call evil, evil to its face, to its followers, you have no fear of man, his false power and slavish devotees. thats why he denies it, he denies out of not wanting to be arrogant, deluded, narcisstic, he denies it because he wanted to go straight up to the elite and destroy them. he denied because like now, its was then. people are mostly gutless, arrogant, pompous and wicked. human nature hasn't changed just the clothes, products, people are still on the same level, still reptile. look at them, look their eyes, they are vacant, dead souls, residual energy.

ask yourself, why the people lie to themself, because back then/like today the people were snakes, no one stood with him, they souled him out, like people are sell outs today. the people killed yashuah just as much as the elite did. the rest are scared to die. they don't love god, they want god to give them everything like santa, but they don't love him, won't love people for him/compassion, won't die for him. god just another source of wealth, power, wishgiver. even when people find god/soul, they do it to for themselves, to make their wishes come true, do they really think they can con the creator?

[bigus_dickus]

personally the only people on this planet with balls are the sikhs and muslims, the rest are scared to die.

that's kind of far fetched, it seems you say it only because you are a sikh. but people are people, no matter what they believe. their beliefs change all the time, so scared today, have courage tomorrow. i don't think it is useful to classify people like that, we are all family.

[synergy777]

dude my bad, i was suffering from nicotine withdrawal, forgive me. also i tend to suffer from the old sikh/panjabi fearlessness, lol

[lapis]

".... but people are people, no matter what they believe. their beliefs change all the time, so scared today, have courage tomorrow. i don't think it is useful to classify people like that, we are all family".

But out of the other side of your mouth you say things like this to certain groups of people YOU don't like. Come on, be a big dick full-time, or, change your ways too. Can't play it like this bigus dickus.

"by what you wrote it seems to me you are a new ager, not an astrologer.

it figures.. this vid is perfect for new agers."

[phoenix1]

dual post sorry

[phoenix1]

Well here we go another bullshit Christ Fable...Open your eyes to some undeniable TRUTH in these books right here...dumb de dumb ...

Buy them .. read them .. THEN disbute them... you can't ???? NO because whats in these books is indisputable. Period.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/411V3B204SL._SS500_.jpg

Either you get it or you cling to bullshit, dogma, mind control, and indoctrination... and you dont have one original thought in your head... and in my oppinion, all you people bying this fabricated nonsense... are buying delusion.

While you cling to a religion (any kind of religion with preset tenets) all born out of fear. You deny your SELF..

Religion in one word ??? BULLSHIT... Thinking for yourself and actually having a flexible oppinion... PRICELESS
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MP1K71SKL._SS500_.jpg

And if you wanna know somemore real deal stuff ??

Same author... Excellent read ... but the DOGMATISED RIGID will wanna pass maybe

The Secret in the Bible: The Lost History of the Giza Plateau and How Temple Priests of the Great Pyramid Preserved the Evidence of Life Beyond Death

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3d/40/f93f92c008a0353ee5384010._AA240_.L.jpg

And The Twin Deception... all available here if you cant see the pics.

Amazon.com: The Crucifixion of Truth (9780975159477): tony BUSHBY: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MP1K71SKL.@@AMEPARAM@@51MP1K71SKL
(Secret in The Bible My fave) But the others are more vital for this thread.;)

I'm aint gonna tie myself to this thread .. The one in the rant room oughta be enough for ya lol.


Suss the Sham Phoenix:eek:;):rolleyes:

[bigus_dickus]

But out of the other side of your mouth you say things like this to certain groups of people YOU don't like. Come on, be a big dick full-time, or, change your ways too. Can't play it like this bigus dickus.

you must have felt insulted by something that i said. please clarify what it was and i will explain. i am not going to respond to your insults though, no matter how much you try, so if you are coming back with supposed insults, the best thing for me to do is ignore you. that doesn't mean that i don't love you though.

[bigus_dickus]

Buy them .. read them .. THEN disbute them... you can't ???? NO because whats in these books is indisputable. Period.

are you sure? don't be so sure... here's an example

Ugh!
Yeah, It's That Bad
James Patrick Holding

http://www.tektonics.org/af/bushby01.html

I'm sorry -- but no title can do any better justice to this piece of rampant insanity titled The Bible Fraud by the No One in Particular named Tony Bushby. It has the bogus Pope Leo X quote on the cover...and I could really end this article here. But I won't. The demand is too strong, so I'll do the usual rundown of samples I do for works like this one.

But hokey smokes -- this one was bad. Bad bad bad bad bad bad. Worse than Brooks Trubee or Farrell Till. Worse that Barbara Thiering or Robert Eisenman or Robert Price. Worse than Dan Brown, for crying out's sake. BAD.

Let's start with a summary of the plot (as in, cemetery, more likely).

Jesus married Mary Magdalene (you KNEW that one was coming!) as well as two other women in his lifetime. Mary was a descendant of King Herod and Jesus was a descendant of a Celtic king named Lud. (No, don't ask how a Celtic managed to work his way to, and survive in, Jewish Palestine where he'd stick out like the sorest thumb this side of Los Angeles.) His line eventually fostered Consntantine [15]. However, Jesus and a twin brother named Judas Khrestus (!) were "conceived by rape or adultery" between a member of Herod's family and the Emperor Tiberius. [41] Some stories in the Gospels, like the Temple cleansing, are actually about Khrestus [67] and this Khrestus escaped a sentence of crucifixion imposed by Caligula in 37 by appealing to an "age-old tradition" that allowed him to have someone sub in for him [84]. Judas later went to India to learn stuff [90]. Jesus became a king of Britain named Cunobelinus [108] where he also joined a Druidic order [115] and acquired the name Bran the Blessed [117]. He was later captured by Rome in war [125] but escaped execution because of his connections with Roman aristocracy. He later went to Egypt to be initiated into mysteries [141] but sometime later was stoned to death 153].

Clues for this whole story can be found in all sorts of odd places ranging from conveniently inaccessible manuscripts to statues in France and even in the works of Shakespeare. Unfortunately, much of what would prove this has been burned by the church, and other things have been edited or interpolated to hide all this from you.

That's it. Now if you haven't left the room on your way to the rubber room by now, here's some particulars analyzed.

* Bushby thinks his book was predicted by Nostradamus [11].
* Many of his sources are -- oh my, too bad! -- "preserved in rare archival manuiscripts and difficult-to-find reference books." I wonder why. Among these sources are such items as the "Myvyean Manuscript" [18] in the British Museum. For some reason the only actual reference to this document anywhere online comes from references to Bushby. And little wonder why. Tekton Research Assistant "Punkish" won the Gold Star of his life with this one -- he lives in the UK, and was able to contact the British Museum about this. His report:

I wrote to the British Library (who now house the manuscript collection that used to be kept at the British Museum) about this "Myvyean manuscript" and the official reply from Michael St.John-McAlister, the Curator of the Dept. of Manuscripts is this:

"I am afraid that I can find no reference to such a manuscript in our collections. We receive many similar enquiries relating to subject matter such as this and I have to say many of them are hoaxes or refer to non-existent manuscripts."

So much for Bushby as a credible source on alleged mystery documents.
* In addition, because many people will disagree with his book, Bushby will "not engage in written religious argument with readers" who disagree. [12]

Uh...what was that again????
* Sir Francis Bacon edited the KJV [20]. Now this is an odd idea you do see offered up on some rather outlandish websites, but oddly, not one of them I have found to be of any academic bent. The source Bushby gives is by an author named Alfred Dodd who wrote some rather peculiar books like Shakespeare: Creator of Freemasonry. (He also appeals to "original documents" in the British museum that allegedly prove this, but are conveniently unquoted and unreferenced otherwise.) The idea that Bacon had some part in the KJV is so outraegous that apparently not even the folks at Wikipedia are willing to let it stand, uncritical as they are. I think I'll ask for more proof on this one. Bacon is also said to have edited the plays of Shakespeare and added secret messages....on that one, I'll refer to a lively discussion here by an academic source and a rather detailed discussion here by someone who passes the critical source test.
* Yes indeed -- Morton Smith is used as a source with his Secret Gospel of Mark and claim that a tombstone in Germany of a Roman soldier may have been that of Jesus' father [29].
* It's not quite The Da Vinci Code, but the Last Supper is hauled in for an argument as it is claimed that one of the disicples (the fifth from the right of Jesus) looks like Jesus' twin, thus evidently showing Leonrado believed in Bushby's twin theory. From what I see of that painting, that's as much imagination as Dan Brown offers to make John a woman; it is an idea also found on some conspiracy-theory sites, but the resemblance is highly superficial and the alleged "twin" has a chin that juts out rather more than Jesus'. Michealangelo is also said to have endorsed this idea, as well as Raphael, but what Bushby takes for twin sons of Mary are always taken by credible art historians as the infants Jesus and John the Baptist. Bushby dismisses this by claiming that the boys are "identical" which is quite imaginative and clearly false (see for example here -- the hairstyles and color are entirely different; the chins do not match, and little John already has on his prophetic garment, while Jesus is the only one with a halo!).
* Also in common with Dan Brown, Bushby makes use of the legendary Abbe' Sauniere [47] who allegedly became rich thanks to some secret documents he found in a hollow pillar in his church in France. Olson and Miesel say it all in their comments in The Da Vinci Hoax: {[Suaniere] was in fact a simoniac priest whose wealth came from selling overbooked Masses until he was suspended by his bishop in 1911. The parchments were fake, the pillar was not hollow, and the tomb was not painted by Nicholas Poussin in his two works titled Et in Arcadia Ego. The so-called mystery was ivented by a local restaurant owner in the 1950s to attract tourists." [237]
* "Old records" of unspecificed origin and nature tell us that the Pharisees were founded by a "Pharez" who "developed a school of Predestination" and the Sadducees by one "Sadoc" who was "a disciple of Antigonus Scohaeus" who had allegedly founded a "School of Infidels". [51] Needless to say this is a mix of fact and nonsense. The name of the Pharisees comes from the word perushim, which means separatists. "Sadducees" is perhaps properly taken from a "Sadoc" -- one of Solomon's priests in the OT, whom they regarded as their ideological ancestor, if the derivation is correct -- others argue that it comes from a Greek word for "fiscal officials" but a connection to this alleged Antigonus is not one of the options scholars use. Of course there are no other references to this "School of Infidels" or this Antigonus online, expect from those copying Bushby.
* The Essenes are connected with the Druids of Gaul [523].
* Even if the quote from Julian is correct [57] it has the facts mangled; Paul, Matthew and Mark all equate Jesus with divine Wisdom.
* Bushby repeats Harpur's canard about KRST [58].
* Bushby claims he made clergy "squirm" by asking about where Jesus was called a glutton and a drunkard. Bushby evidently knows little about stock rhetoric of the time; or perhaps he really thinks the Pharisees were vipers and hypocrites, and also whitewashed walls [64].
* The Gauls are the same people as those who lived in Galilee [75].
* A microcosm is offered of Remsberg's list [87].
* Bushby repeats an Anglo-Israelist argument I last saw used by Herbert Armstrong [99] that "British" combines the two Hebrew words for covenant (berit) and man (ish). (More serious sources connect the name to that of a tribe of Picts, the Pritani.) Also the home of Mary Magdalene, Dalmanutha [105], is in South Wales.
* Paul [134] at one point had to flee to Wales and there was protected. One source for this information is "an ancient manuscript in Merton College".
* Bushby uses the "Bacchus on the cross" gem of Freke and Gandy [197] -- yes, the one that's a forgery -- as well as plying all the usual copycats (Mithra, Attis, etc.)

I really see no need to say more. The wild ideas Bushby propounds lend little credence to the rest of what he writes, though of course anyone who wishes to have me look into specific claims made by Bushby is welcome to request that I do so.

Hokey smokes, that was BAD.

[bigus_dickus]

and here is another better analysis on The Bushby Fraud. read it:

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/skeptic_bible_fraud.html

conclusion
We can conclude that Bushby simply has not proven his case. The majority of his evidence is based on speculation, linguistic games, bogus
references, and terribly misquoted sources. Bushby has not sufficiently provided any kind of sound proof that should cause us to dismiss known
history and accept his claims. A pope never admitted to Christ being a fable, the Jesus twins never existed, and Christianity was not based on
pagan myths.

[phoenix1]

and here is another better analysis on The Bushby Fraud. read it:

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/skeptic_bible_fraud.html

conclusion

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Wake UP !! BD freaking hell. No .. maybe its best you stick to the gameplan eh ??? Nice and tidy.. all laid out for you to follow. Easy really.. but the easy road always will be the easy road.. wont it ?? Until you realise it's the road to nowhere at all..

I'll let ya get on with it .. there is far more important work to do than discuss a contrived fable.

Well BD I'll catch you round from time to time no doubt .. If i can be at all moved to join a post you make.

Dont move like concrete... it don't move very fluidly far:rolleyes:;)

[snoopsnuffleopagus]

Ladies & Gentlemen!:
2-Biggus Dickus. Thank you for providing that link to an insightful,precise and revealing analysis of the Bible Fraud and its author bushby.
This vividly illustrates points I have posited on other threads.

Critiscism of the Book of Yahweh is welcome and to be expected. The challenge to the wouldbe critic is to provide accurate critiscism. Not corrupted texts or doctrines which simply are not found in the actual book.

An example of a critiscism lacking supporting evidence to defend the position taken would be in phoenixes post,'Its the EASY road, the Easiest doctrine'

I respectfully disagree. To keep the 613 Laws, Judgements and Statutes of Yahweh brings hatred and disdain and excoriation and reproach.

Which is why so many congregations begin adding,subtracting or changing text. Poor Moral Character.
The Teachers and Leaders desire power and tithes,so they feed their flocks a counterfeit of Yahwehs Doctrine.

The world hates those who follow Yahweh,all the prophets except Yachannan the Revelator, were slain,many times in very awful ways. And what were they teaching? Character Education! Honoring and feeding the higher mind rather than the carnal mind.

Easy? I say not!

[bigus_dickus]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Wake UP !! BD freaking hell. No .. maybe its best you stick to the gameplan eh ??? Nice and tidy.. all laid out for you to follow. Easy really.. but the easy road always will be the easy road.. wont it ?? Until you realise it's the road to nowhere at all..

hey phoenix, look i'm not trying to defend the bible or religions, i am just saying my opinion, in which i don't take sides. i am being careful of what i write and in what manner and especially why.

maybe i can help you avoid the bullshit, not become religious or christian, or change your ways. so don't worry about that :)

[heartbeatsalute]

Christ and christianity are two very different things.
Christ was a Rebel, a beautiful being.
The Catholic Church was made by Paul, knowing Christ was still alive in India ,were he died of old age. Although until this day Christianity has been brainwashed to believe that he died in the cross at the age of 33.
It is known that the enlightened one is always the Master, wether he be Jesus, Buddha, Zarathsutra and many others.
When after the death of tHE master, a Holy book is made, which is always manipulated putting some things in and leaving other things out. After this the disciples ,who ARE ALL UNENLIGHTENED ,start doing things the wrong way, the opposite way of what the Master said and preached.
Christ was spiritual ,what did the Vatican and the rest do? They became political, not oriented to religion but to power.
If you are oriented to have the pope meet chiefs of states , himself acting as one ,having vote in UNITED NATIONS, then they stopped being mystics for centuries, they are with the powerful, therefore it is not difficult to see why they become cons.
Why was Pope John Paul I killed after 33 days? because he told the Maffia inside the vatican to leave ,and no longer be incharge of the finances of the Vatican, and that they would have more spiritual things to do in other places of Italy, and to meet him at 7:45 am next day. He died that very same night ,poisoned in his water glass with no taste or smell.
They have become poltical Maffias, speaking about one thing and doing another, what to say about pedophilia, the bank ambrosiano, aids started by them , homosexuality.

So this has been corruption from the start. If this is their example, and the neo cons have them as an example of corrupt survival.
It's a good thing some people for a long time know they cannot be trusted
I once saw a priest say mockingly in TV, but what about Christ? he is dead.
then what is he a priest for?
Buddha also asked never to have a statue made of him. What do we find around the world. gigantic statues of Buddha, samall, all kinds. That reverses the message. People that were with the live Master were very lucky. But being born centuries later, and having this corruption , in an organized religion seem as normal, is really a poison for the real truth
They are so, as David Icke explains, the illuminati neo cons come from Babylon, no matter what religion they profess today, these guys are on the dark side of the road.

Christians are CONFORMISTS because priests have convinced them
that they are"higher than thou" and that the organized religion has to be saved no matter what ,they have no more information, that the crooked one they get from the maffia of the soul, in a way they have been raped spiritually. Not every one can get out easily of the mass psychology that these people place over the many, since they were born, only some come out of the mass psychology and the false structure ,which is very difficult, and although false, it is easier to live not going against the current than by telling the truth. So it is up only to the rebel , to the true lions to get out of the clutches of these people, the rest, simply follow the crowd ,after all that is what society is about, after all , they think the priest KNOWS what he is doing, he is a specialist......the blind leading the blind....
It is reported that Christ said let the children come to me, meaning let the innocent minds come to me, and what the priests understood is seen in pedophilia acts. So the Politicians and the priests are in total unity to commit
murder , the politicians with ambitions of NWO, and the priests with raping peoples souls. they are in the same business, and have people under CONTROL, absolute and total mind control, so people have been MADE CONSERVATIVE by the belief of SIN, everything is a sin ,sex ,which is natural is bad. You are supposed to be fixed by these murderers.
they have given people the wrong kind of hypnosis, have manipulated reality, made conservative ,they don't want rebels to give them problems.
If a man is a rebel in the first place he would not be Christian ,most probably would go to the wisdom of eastern religions, tao, where the self is to be found.
As DAVID ICKE SAYS: "GOD SAVE US FROM RELIGION" I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

Interesting post. Christianity is politics, actually a pseudo-religion for the massess. A con.

[heartbeatsalute]

chandra great post, you should post more bro.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=jesus+in+india&meta=

http://www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/1340/jesus_in_india.htm

http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/home.html

http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

http://www.jesus.com.au/html/page/jesus_in_india

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

krishna, buddha, yashuah were all from the same source, the creator.

Great links Synergy 777,on the missing years of Jesus in India, thank you.

[quietgirl]

Actually, IMHO, these days committed Christians (and those of other faiths) are anything BUT conformists. They stand firm against the degraded and money-obsessed mess society seems to be in danger of becoming, and fight against the march of fashionable secularism. For example, as a Christian I believe in marriage and strong family values - not exactly fashionable opinions these days! (I think, TBH, that I would have those beliefs even if I weren't a Christian.)

Mandy

[knightofthegrail]

Was Christ a rebel? Or was he the true conformist and the worldly powers the rebels?

[bishadi]

Was Christ a rebel? Or was he the true conformist and the worldly powers the rebels?

without 'rebels' jesus may not have lived.

ie..... joseph per se took in mary, a women unwed with a child. In jewish rule, she would have been stoned to death. Joseph chose compassion over the rules of the church.

honest people DO NOT follow church and sustain integrity for compassion, first!

[knightofthegrail]

without 'rebels' jesus may not have lived.

ie..... joseph per se took in mary, a women unwed with a child. In jewish rule, she would have been stoned to death. Joseph chose compassion over the rules of the church.

honest people DO NOT follow church and sustain integrity for compassion, first!

I think you need to reconsider what I said, as you appear to have misconstrued it. "Rebel" implies "recognises no authority but your own". Jesus (and his family) were no rebels. They merely conformed to a different authority (that the worldly power were rebelling against).

[waymarker]

If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?

Anybody who conforms hasn't got balls, so they can't be true Christians..:)

"Don't conform to the pattern of this world" (Rom 12:2)
"You were bought at a price, don't serve men" (1 Cor 7:23)
"You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Eph 2:1/2)
"You died with Christ from this world, so don't keep submitting to its rules" (Col 2:20)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Jesus_revolutionaryB.gif

[adbasque]

If Christ was a rebel, why are most Christians CONFORMISTS?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=373609&mpage=1&showdate=7/17/07&forum=1

Christ was against injustice, theft, perpetual lies, abuse, Christians are not following what Jesus did or said, they are following what Rome is telling them to do, a lot of myths in today's Christianity, you need to find the old true Christianity the original, it has been modified a thousand times.

You don't have to take my word for it, there are a lot of things for example 200 years ago a Church wouldn't allow, today they are allowed in Christianity, does that mean anything that God forbade has been corrected by "man" ;)

The church was against the use of usury, now the Church is multi million dollar industry.

So don't judge Christ by what "Christianity" is today.
Well it's a long debate, it cannot be explained or even debated on a forum to be honest, there are a lot of little things that needs to change.

[khepera2010]

The bible is a 'control and manipulation' system designed by man and has been drawn from other earlier sources and was rewritten and edited by Constantine. BUT the biblical Jesus was like a Roman Emperors wet dream - ''....render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's....the meek shall inherit the earth...etc'' - all bullshit designed to uphold the social and political Order and 'conform' to the 'herd' mentality....''oooh don't rock the boat''.

[bishadi]

I think you need to reconsider what I said, as you appear to have misconstrued it. "Rebel" implies "recognises no authority but your own".

i didnt say that.

I said, compassion rules over religious beliefs. The religion of judaism shared that god dont like adultry and if mary was prego and no husband, then adultry is what she would have been condemned with. she would have been killed by the religious adherants of judaism (per se 'gods' rules by the 'word of god' (Torah))

Jesus (and his family) were no rebels.

wow.............. Jesus rebelled against 'everyone' of the religious establishment of 'god'

from turning over the tables at the church, to teaching people how to live (mark 10:17-19)............ He was offering MORE than the religious wingnuts of the time shared. For example: he said each can forgive (turn the utter cheek), where as of the religion of the time, that was not 'by god'

They merely conformed to a different authority (that the worldly power were rebelling against).

what authority?

You may BELIEVE 'god' was talking to these people, by the book, but joseph did not write that, nor speak that, not witness that. Jesus did not claim, 'well my dad doinked mary and told joseph to take me in, name me one name but then change it later so the religion can be born to make more people liars, like knightofthegrail'

or do you have a scripture that claims you can lie just because?

[adbasque]

The bible is a 'control and manipulation' system designed by man and has been drawn from other earlier sources and was rewritten and edited by Constantine. BUT the biblical Jesus was like a Roman Emperors wet dream - ''....render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's....the meek shall inherit the earth...etc'' - all bullshit designed to uphold the social and political Order and 'conform' to the 'herd' mentality....''oooh don't rock the boat''.

Today's Bible yes, the original Bible was not written by man.

Today's Bible was modified a thousand times, no longer holds the true values of what Christianity was all about.

[khepera2010]

Today's Bible yes, the original Bible was not written by man.

Today's Bible was modified a thousand times, no longer holds the true values of what Christianity was all about.

I sat here debating answering and then thought, no I gotta ask the question: if the ORIGINAL bible was'nt written by man then who or what wrote it?

[bishadi]

I sat here debating answering and then thought, no I gotta ask the question: if the ORIGINAL bible was'nt written by man then who or what wrote it?

i have written jokes about the concept that if 'god' wrote the ten commandments and they were on stones, could you imagine how big the arc would have to be if he wrote the torah (first five books of bible)?


but remember, the idiots claim a gabriel angel (a spirit) assisted in the writting of the bible but its a different gabby one than the one muhammed was supposedly talking to


it is funny how morons can claim that god spoke to all them people but to this day, no one is talking to god about correcting the errors

[adbasque]

I sat here debating answering and then thought, no I gotta ask the question: if the ORIGINAL bible was'nt written by man then who or what wrote it?

That depends on what you call "written" If I dictate my book to you and you do the typing, who wrote the book in your opinion? You or Me?

If you take it literally who held a pen and wrote it, the answer is yes, I am talking about the content, what was in the original Bible was God's words what is the later Bibles are men's words, not all of it but a lot of "crucial" things have been changed.

[knightofthegrail]

what authority?

I would have thought it pretty obvious that I was refering to the plot line of the story of the nativity; Joseph, Mary and Jesus were not rebels. They were conforming to the rule of God rather than joining in the rebellion against God that the worldly powers were engaged in.

or do you have a scripture that claims you can lie just because?

:confused:

Read the Bible.

Mary surrendered to God's will.
Joseph surrendered to God's will.
Jesus came to do God's will.

These are not rebels. They are conforming to God's rule and not joining in the worldly rebellion against God's rule.

[hurt4ever1]

That depends on what you call "written" If I dictate my book to you and you do the typing, who wrote the book in your opinion? You or Me?

If you take it literally who held a pen and wrote it, the answer is yes, I am talking about the content, what was in the original Bible was God's words what is the later Bibles are men's words, not all of it but a lot of "crucial" things have been changed.

In my book, if I write what you say, then that is called hearsay. If God has something to reveal to me, he will reveal it to me directly. Otherwise, I am getting 1/2 truths instead of all truth.

Get what I mean?

[khepera2010]

That depends on what you call "written" If I dictate my book to you and you do the typing, who wrote the book in your opinion? You or Me?

If you take it literally who held a pen and wrote it, the answer is yes, I am talking about the content, what was in the original Bible was God's words what is the later Bibles are men's words, not all of it but a lot of "crucial" things have been changed.

Sorry no, not buying that. If then you say that the Jews have stuck to the original (the Old Testament), then, to me, there is little difference between their teachings and Christians...or muslims for that matter. They're all mad and worship either, a) a psychopath, b) a group of god's/goddesses masquerading as Monotheism.....or c) it's still a load of nonsense made up by men as a 'tool' to control and manipulate the People.

[logos880]

Was Christ a rebel? Or was he the true conformist and the worldly powers the rebels?

^this...good read. ;)

[logos880]

Today's Bible yes, the original Bible was not written by man.

Today's Bible was modified a thousand times, no longer holds the true values of what Christianity was all about.

What was christianity "all about" exactly?

[logos880]

In my book, if I write what you say, then that is called hearsay. If God has something to reveal to me, he will reveal it to me directly. Otherwise, I am getting 1/2 truths instead of all truth.

Get what I mean?

What if you take the truth that G-d reveals to you and write it down?

[adbasque]

In my book, if I write what you say, then that is called hearsay. If God has something to reveal to me, he will reveal it to me directly. Otherwise, I am getting 1/2 truths instead of all truth.

Get what I mean?

As I said before, I really hate discussing religion, online, it is not as clear cut as many people make it, there's no one simple answer to it.

In order to understand and properly re-asses the true values of "A" religion, it requires a great deal of knowledge, research, time, and very long debates.

You cannot simply answer it in one word, why would God reveal it to you personally?
Yes he could reveal it to all of us in our sleep or something, then it beats the whole purpose.

1) You need to understand why we are on this earth.
2) What is religion and what is its real purpose
Unless you fully understand the true meaning of these questions and their real answers, no matter how many debates you hold you will never understand why is religion necessary, more than necessary it is crucial.

Like I said, I really can't debate religion on forums this is not a place for this, you can debate other things but religion is far more complicated and much deeper than average people think it is.

So that is why I really hate debating religion, sometimes I answer quick questions, but going in depth, requires days of typing, and I simply don't have the energy or the time to be honest.

Religion is much much deeper than what most people make it to be.

Religion Science and history go hand in hand.

[adbasque]

What was christianity "all about" exactly?

Simple short answer?

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all bring the same message, its main purpose is God introducing itself to all of us, and it's mainly about "Monotheism"

That is the very short answer:

[hurt4ever1]

As I said before, I really hate discussing religion, online, it is not as clear cut as many people make it, there's no one simple answer to it.

In order to understand and properly re-asses the true values of "A" religion, it requires a great deal of knowledge, research, time, and very long debates.

You cannot simply answer it in one word, why would God reveal it to you personally?
Yes he could reveal it to all of us in our sleep or something, then it beats the whole purpose.

1) You need to understand why we are on this earth.
2) What is religion and what is its real purpose
Unless you fully understand the true meaning of these questions and their real answers, no matter how many debates you hold you will never understand why is religion necessary, more than necessary it is crucial.

Like I said, I really can't debate religion on forums this is not a place for this, you can debate other things but religion is far more complicated and much deeper than average people think it is.

So that is why I really hate debating religion, sometimes I answer quick questions, but going in depth, requires days of typing, and I simply don't have the energy or the time to be honest.

Religion is much much deeper than what most people make it to be.

Religion Science and history go hand in hand.

God would reveal what ever I need to know to me because it is my time to know it. From my personal experience, I can say that I can gleen knowledge from almost anything, but most of all from the people around me as my mirrors, this also includes all religious texts, although, limited because I am here to learn about myself, not about what other people claim who is God.

As far as research, I have researched for 20+ years now. I do not consider this a debate, but a sharing of knowledge.

Why would God have people write a book 1700+ years ago, that somehow should pertain to me that people can randomly change depending on their personal belief? Sorry, if I was meant to only read the Abrahamic faith books, I would have been born with them in my arms. My knowledge of God comes from within, not hearsay.

[adbasque]

Sorry no, not buying that. If then you say that the Jews have stuck to the original (the Old Testament), then, to me, there is little difference between their teachings and Christians...or muslims for that matter. They're all mad and worship either, a) a psychopath, b) a group of god's/goddesses masquerading as Monotheism.....or c) it's still a load of nonsense made up by men as a 'tool' to control and manipulate the People.

The truth is, the message came in three parts and there are good reasons why it came in three parts there are oceans of reasons why, and oceans of differences although those "differences" might appear to be small, but they are real differences.

First we need to know why it happened?
Two, how it all happened?
I am not going to tell you which religion is right or wrong, it's for you to find that out, and you will, but you MUST understand "their purpose" first.

If you just want to brush it aside and follow what some people keep repeating, "Control system" man made, etc.. we've heard this over and over again.

When you ask them "Which control?" usually they don't have an answer, because they heard and they simply repeat it.


I am going to cite a few things that religion defended against and the things that it promoted over the centuries:

Gambling
Stealing
Lying
Abusing
Looking after the weak
Looking after the orphan
Equality (real one)
No use of Usury
One man rule or a group of men ruling
No monarchies (kings and Queens) are myths never existed in religion, even if some people think they did.

Like I said I'd rather not go any further, because it always end up in stupid arguments and hostilities.

I think it's personal it's for the individual to find out for him/herself, and it's nobody else's business.

[logos880]

Simple short answer?

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all bring the same message, its main purpose is God introducing itself to all of us, and it's mainly about "Monotheism"

That is the very short answer:

So thousands of pages of text just to say "there's only one G-d?" I think there's more to it than that.

[adbasque]

God would reveal what ever I need to know to me because it is my time to know it. From my personal experience, I can say that I can gleen knowledge from almost anything, but most of all from the people around me as my mirrors, this also includes all religious texts, although, limited because I am here to learn about myself, not about what other people claim who is God.

Yes, the knowledge or any knowledge you acquire has been passed on by "Somebody" knowledge doesn't fall from the sky on you, you learn it, and therefore there is always a "Somebody" before you who left it for you :)


As far as research, I have researched for 20+ years now. I do not consider this a debate, but a sharing of knowledge.

I believe you did, but it's not the number of years that counts, what counts is to find "IT"
Some people researched all their lives and haven't found the truth, others a matter of months or a couple of years and they did find the truth, it all depends where you look and most importantly how you sieve through the information that you discovered.


Why would God have people write a book 1700+ years ago, that somehow should pertain to me that people can randomly change depending on their personal belief?

That is where the real research should focus, first what people wrote centuries ago, they did it out of faith, what they've learned and did the research, yes there are many who did in fact deliberately tried to tamper with the true message, but the truth is still out there and the real religion is still out there, and that is where the real research comes in.


Sorry, if I was meant to only read the Abrahamic faith books, I would have been born with them in my arms. My knowledge of God comes from within, not hearsay.

No, that is not true, again, you need to understand the real reason what is behind the religion, who brought them, under what conditions and so on..

But the answers are in the religion, but you have to take time to find out for yourself, not reading someone else's books and research and think I have done "My research" because you're basing your findings on someone else's words and most dangerously his or her interpretation what religion is, and what it is all about.

That is all I have to say and I wish you good luck sincerely.

[adbasque]

So thousands of pages of text just to say "there's only one G-d?" I think there's more to it than that.

Of course there is a great deal more, it is a way of life, and mainly is to protect yourself and to protect everything that is "Good" for you, for your entourage, society, the needy, other generations.

It helps mostly fight "Evil" it helps you to spot the evil doing miles away.

[hurt4ever1]

Yes, the knowledge or any knowledge you acquire has been passed on by "Somebody" knowledge doesn't fall from the sky on you, you learn it, and therefore there is always a "Somebody" before you who left it for you :)



I believe you did, but it's not the number of years that counts, what counts is to find "IT"
Some people researched all their lives and haven't found the truth, others a matter of months or a couple of years and they did find the truth, it all depends where you look and most importantly how you sieve through the information that you discovered.



That is where the real research should focus, first what people wrote centuries ago, they did it out of faith, what they've learned and did the research, yes there are many who did in fact deliberately tried to tamper with the true message, but the truth is still out there and the real religion is still out there, and that is where the real research comes in.



No, that is not true, again, you need to understand the real reason what is behind the religion, who brought them, under what conditions and so on..

But the answers are in the religion, but you have to take time to find out for yourself, not reading someone else's books and research and think I have done "My research" because you're basing your findings on someone else's words and most dangerously his or her interpretation what religion is, and what it is all about.

That is all I have to say and I wish you good luck sincerely.

So basically, you are saying you want me to believe YOUR truth based on books written centuries ago but not books written by someone else?

You just contradicted yourself. The books written centuries ago were written by someone else.

No thanks, I will find my own truth. I was a Christian for 30+ years, I am moving forwards, not backwards.

[logos880]

Of course there is a great deal more, it is a way of life, and mainly is to protect yourself and to protect everything that is "Good" for you, for your entourage, society, the needy, other generations.

It helps mostly fight "Evil" it helps you to spot the evil doing miles away.

Each of those religious traditions also have a few things to say about the identity of G-d. ;)

[vancity eagle]

Today's Bible yes, the original Bible was not written by man.

Today's Bible was modified a thousand times, no longer holds the true values of what Christianity was all about.

there are a few things which were injected into the Bible, one being the name of the Most High. Most of the deception of the BIble is through the choice of words used in transliteration into English, which can easily be remedied by getting a Bible concordance of Greek and Hebrew languages.
Apart from this the Bible has pretty much remained in tact, and there are various different languages and versions of the bible proving this.

[vancity eagle]

I would have thought it pretty obvious that I was refering to the plot line of the story of the nativity; Joseph, Mary and Jesus were not rebels. They were conforming to the rule of God rather than joining in the rebellion against God that the worldly powers were engaged in.



:confused:

Read the Bible.

Mary surrendered to God's will.
Joseph surrendered to God's will.
Jesus came to do God's will.

These are not rebels. They are conforming to God's rule and not joining in the worldly rebellion against God's rule.


True Christians rebel against the world

Secular people and Satanists rebel against God.

We are all rebels, the difference is who we are rebelling against.

[logos880]

Most of the deception of the BIble is through the choice of words used in transliteration into English, which can easily be remedied by getting a Bible concordance of Greek and Hebrew languages.

I'm not even sure that "deception" is the correct word, but here is a great bible research site that has the greek and hebrew texts:

http://qbible.com/ :)

[adbasque]

So basically, you are saying you want me to believe YOUR truth based on books written centuries ago but not books written by someone else?

You just contradicted yourself. The books written centuries ago were written by someone else.

No thanks, I will find my own truth. I was a Christian for 30+ years, I am moving forwards, not backwards.

That is exactly what I said, find your own truth and good luck and there isn't a contradiction in what I said.

It doesn't matter when the book is written, there are books written last week and they are selling and full of lies.

That doesn't mean anything, when truth is hidden by some you need to find it, weeks, months, years or centuries don't change anything, when something is hidden, it means it is hidden.

There are hundreds if not thousands of things hidden from us today than ever before.

What I meant to say is no matter what path you follow, there is always someone before you, there is always someone who left that knowledge for you, whether it a lie or the truth.

You can only learn from what is available.

[adbasque]

True Christians rebel against the world

Secular people and Satanists rebel against God.

We are all rebels, the difference is who we are rebelling against.

Indeed depends who you're rebelling against, some people rebel but unknowingly are helping the Elite and the Illuminati in what they always tried to do, i.e Satan if you like, his main aim is to wipe the word G-D from the face of the earth, and in some ways he is succeeding.

[vancity eagle]

Of course there is a great deal more, it is a way of life, and mainly is to protect yourself and to protect everything that is "Good" for you, for your entourage, society, the needy, other generations.

It helps mostly fight "Evil" it helps you to spot the evil doing miles away.

The thing about Islam and Judaism, is that they do not acknowledge the Christ sacrifice for sin. Under the old law, man was put to death for transgression of certain laws.

Judaism , (following the Torah old law) really has no excuse for denying this since it is prophesied all throughout the Old Testament, that the Most High would send his son to be an offering for sins. So following Judaism and denying Christ, you are actually ignoring the OT that you claim to follow.

Islam which is based on the OT as well also denys the sacrifice of Christ, hence why you have some muslims who support death penalty. They are practising OT law, whereas this law of death penalty was nullified when Christ was offered as a penalty to pay for sins of all who come under the covenant. This offers a grace period where we have the chance to follow the laws of God, without being executed at our first failure.

So Islam and Judaism ignore the Old Testament prophecies of Christ, whilst basing their religions on the Old testament.

[adbasque]

there are a few things which were injected into the Bible, one being the name of the Most High. Most of the deception of the BIble is through the choice of words used in transliteration into English, which can easily be remedied by getting a Bible concordance of Greek and Hebrew languages.
Apart from this the Bible has pretty much remained in tact, and there are various different languages and versions of the bible proving this.

It has to be re-translated from the original Hebrew texts to English, because the Greeks added a lot of myths that don't exist in real Christianity.

The roman's have tried to destroy Christianity while appearing the protectors of the Christian world, but all they did was suppress the truth and its authenticity.

Like I said I'd rather not continue with this debate it always ends with heated arguments and insults, so I am pulling out right now lol :D

[vancity eagle]

I'm not even sure that "deception" is the correct word, but here is a great bible research site that has the greek and hebrew texts:

http://qbible.com/ :)

it might not be deception, but I find some choice of English words to translate certain Hebrew and Greek words highly suspicious, seemingly with an intent to mislead about what is meant in the original text. I am referring to the King James version, yet the newer versions are even much worse.

[vancity eagle]

It has to be re-translated from the original Hebrew texts to English, because the Greeks added a lot of myths that don't exist in real Christianity.

The roman's have tried to destroy Christianity while appearing the protectors of the Christian world, but all they did was suppress the truth and its authenticity.

Like I said I'd rather not continue with this debate it always ends with heated arguments and insults, so I am pulling out right now lol :D

humor me, which myths did the Greeks add ?

[adbasque]

The thing about Islam and Judaism, is that they do not acknowledge the Christ sacrifice for sin. Under the old law, man was put to death for transgression of certain laws.

Judaism , (following the Torah old law) really has no excuse for denying this since it is prophesied all throughout the Old Testament, that the Most High would send his son to be an offering for sins. So following Judaism and denying Christ, you are actually ignoring the OT that you claim to follow.

Islam which is based on the OT as well also denys the sacrifice of Christ, hence why you have some muslims who support death penalty. They are practising OT law, whereas this law of death penalty was nullified when Christ was offered as a penalty to pay for sins of all who come under the covenant. This offers a grace period where we have the chance to follow the laws of God, without being executed at our first failure.

To be honest, I'd rather not go any further in this discussion, I am sure it will result in a heated argument, all I have to say to you, Islam recognises Christ, "Issa" (Peace be upon him) but there are differences, and those differences are up to the individual to interpret them.

The OT, speaks about Jesus, but the "ones" who fabricated stories stroke him out, they didn't want to recognise him as the Messiah and they don't believe that he will return.

Islam says it clearly that he will return to establish peace on earth.
Islam does not support death penalty as many seem to think, don't judge by what some "dictators" do in the so called Muslim world, one thing you need to really bear in mind, is that those leaders are against God they work and obey the NWO their masters, they are trying to destroy the very essence of Islam from within, like they are trying to destroy Christianity and Judaism, to give the outsiders a false image of what Islam is.


But I will stop here, I honestly don't want to go any further in this discussion, every time there is a religious debate it ends up in arguments and insults and personal attacks, slandering etc.. so.. I won't go any further, I hope you don't take it the wrong way.



So Islam and Judaism ignore the Old Testament prophecies of Christ, whilst basing their religions on the Old testament.

Islam does not ignore anything about Jesus, anything that is true, Islam also mentions every single Prophet, and there is a whole Chapter dedicated to Mary (Meriam) and Jesus (Issa)

Islam calls him the son of Meriam, Ibnu Meriem, The three religions are all Abrahimic religions, they all bring the fundamental same message, Monotheism.

The differences we have to work through them.
As I said for me religion is a personal and private thing.
Anyway this is my stop. Good luck with the discussion

[hurt4ever1]

That is exactly what I said, find your own truth and good luck and there isn't a contradiction in what I said.

It doesn't matter when the book is written, there are books written last week and they are selling and full of lies.

That doesn't mean anything, when truth is hidden by some you need to find it, weeks, months, years or centuries don't change anything, when something is hidden, it means it is hidden.

There are hundreds if not thousands of things hidden from us today than ever before.

What I meant to say is no matter what path you follow, there is always someone before you, there is always someone who left that knowledge for you, whether it a lie or the truth.

You can only learn from what is available.

Oh, okay, please forgive me for reading your post incorrectly. I am multitasking at the moment and some times while doing that, I lose focus.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[roman piso]

humor me, which myths did the Greeks add ?

Demons[Daemon]
Hades
Sin[Sancus]
Salvation[Salus]
Simon Magus [Semo-Sancus]
Simon-the-Leper [Semo-Asclepius][Healer of LEPers] [Concept of Healing]
Theos [Greek Epithet of Caeser/Zeus] ["God" in NT, used 100+ times]
"Kingdom of God" [Greek Epithet for the Roman Empire]
Christ [Concept of Lubrications/Medicines] [Greek God : Aristaeus/Asclepius]

Hundreds more, These Greek Concepts merged with the Jewish Concepts,
Yahweh + Zeus = Yah-Zeus[Jesus]

[hurt4ever1]

Demons[Daemon]
Hades
Sin[Sancus]
Salvation[Salus]
Simon Magus [Semo-Sancus]
Simon-the-Leper [Asclepius][Healer of LEPers] [Concept of Healing]
Theos [Greek Epithet of Caeser/Zeus] ["God" in NT, used 100+ times]
"Kingdom of God" [Greek Epithet for the Roman Empire]
Christ [Concept of Lubrications/Medicines] [Greek God : Aristaeus/Asclepius]

Hundreds more, These Greek Concepts merged with the Jewish Concepts,
Yahweh + Zeus = Yah-Zeus[Jesus]

Not only that, they didn't even use them correctly, they turned a lot of those things into the opposite of their original meanings and now we are contending with them.

[vancity eagle]

Demons[Daemon]
Hades
Sin[Sancus]
Salvation[Salus]
Simon Magus [Semo-Sancus]
Simon-the-Leper [Semo-Asclepius][Healer of LEPers] [Concept of Healing]
Theos [Greek Epithet of Caeser/Zeus] ["God" in NT, used 100+ times]
"Kingdom of God" [Greek Epithet for the Roman Empire]
Christ [Concept of Lubrications/Medicines] [Greek God : Aristaeus/Asclepius]

Hundreds more, These Greek Concepts merged with the Jewish Concepts,
Yahweh + Zeus = Yah-Zeus[Jesus]

what are you talking about Hades is simply the Greek word for the middle of the earth, they didn't create the idea. In Hebrew this place was known as Sheol.

Are you saying the Greeks invented sin and salvation and demons ? What nonsense are you talking about. Iesous may be a Greek invention because that is not the name of the messiah.

[roman piso]

humor me, which myths did the Greeks add ?

what are you talking about Hades is simply the Greek word for the middle of the earth, they didn't create the idea. In Hebrew this place was known as Sheol.

Are you saying the Greeks invented sin and salvation and demons ? What nonsense are you talking about. Iesous may be a Greek invention because that is not the name of the messiah.

Greeks ALREADY HAD "The Concept of Sin/Salvation/Faith/Demons", way before Christianity, and in fact, also worshipped throughout Judea

[oiram]

Christ and Christianity are two very different things.
Christ was a Rebel, a beautiful being.
The Catholic Church was made by Paul, knowing Christ was still alive in India ,were he died of old age. Although until this day Christianity has been brainwashed to believe that he died in the cross at the age of 33.
It is known that the enlightened one is always the Master, whether he be Jesus, Buddha, Zarathsutra and many others.
When after the death of the master, a Holy book is made, which is always manipulated putting some things in and leaving other things out. After this the disciples ,who ARE ALL UNENLIGHTENED ,start doing things the wrong way, the opposite way of what the Master said and preached.
Christ was spiritual ,what did the Vatican and the rest do? They became political, not oriented to religion but to power.
If you are oriented to have the pope meet chiefs of states , himself acting as one ,having vote in UNITED NATIONS, then they stopped being mystics for centuries, they are with the powerful, therefore it is not difficult to see why they become cons.
Why was Pope John Paul I killed after 33 days? because he told the Mafia inside the Vatican to leave ,and no longer be in-charge of the finances of the Vatican, and that they would have more spiritual things to do in other places of Italy, and to meet him at 7:45 am next day. He died that very same night ,poisoned in his water glass with no taste or smell.
They have become political Mafia's, speaking about one thing and doing another, what to say about paedophilia, the bank ambrosiano, aids started by them , homosexuality.

As DAVID ICKE SAYS: "GOD SAVE US FROM RELIGION" I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.
Even so the story is much longer!

No Christ died on any Cross .....

Basically we can only judge things by what was written in scripture .... & our logic has to do the rest of filtering!

But why the so called Christians can not read ..... or more correctly understand what they reading? >>> Is it possible that (ALL) these organised religious followers in all religions are concrete heads??? ... Including all the so called professional leaders with there university degrees??

One fact I know is; if people do not have a logical Spiritual mind set those individuals will not understand a freaking word the scripture talks about ...... clear proven fact all around us!

When it comes to words from scripture every single key word has to be seen individually & needs evaluation & they should not ever be mixed up ..... because what the Hebrew writers & manipulators loved to do; to get you of the real true story!

Because what people perceive & call Christ is not the Christ!

Was the so called Jesus the "First-begotten"??? >> from the records clearly >> No!

Jesus is his first name the second name is Christ .... usually the second name is the name inherited from the father added to the sons first name!!

For Christ to ever die; for starters you would need to destroy all knowledge & Wisdom ever created from your forefathers since the beginning to accomplish this. .. Like 1 + 1 = 2

So I say with confidence that no Christ died on any cross!

Even the Jesus image gets perceived wrongly .... but that's another story all together!
This is Jesus = From now on, I am the Great Savior. For he is immortal and eternal.

Try to approach all scripture for starters with Spirituality secondly with a 100% logical mind!

Any-once full name always has the first name given to the Son from the creator which is the Father; the second name comes from your father being inherit.

That how I created for myself this summery so far so I don't get lost in space.
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/11/TheTrueWorld.png
To collect all these key points & date has taken me dog ages of reading!

What gets really up my nose is why the millions of the once which call themselves being professional can not find these key points & tell there people the truth ... Who they f@ck do they working for???

Just apply the 1 + 1 = 2 formula & you will come to the same conclusion as I did!
John 1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ , but that I am sent before him.


The Gospel of Philip
"Jesus" is a hidden name, "Christ" is a revealed name. For this reason "Jesus" is not particular to any language; rather he is always called by the name "Jesus". While as for "Christ", in Syriac it is "Messiah", in Greek it is "Christ". Certainly all the others have it according to their own language. "The Nazarene" is he who reveals what is hidden. Christ has everything in himself, whether man, or angel, or mystery, and the Father.

The apostles who were before us had these names for him: "Jesus, the Nazorean, Messiah", that is, "Jesus, the Nazorean, the Christ". The last name is "Christ", the first is "Jesus", that in the middle is "the Nazarene". "Messiah" has two meanings, both "the Christ" and "the measured". "Jesus" in Hebrew is "the redemption". "Nazara" is "the Truth". "The Nazarene" then, is "the Truth". "Christ" [...] has been measured. "The Nazarene" and "Jesus" are they who have been measured.

Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word "God" does not perceive what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with "the Father" and "the Son" and "the Holy Spirit" and "life" and "light" and "resurrection" and "the Church (Ekklesia)" and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, unless they have come to know what is correct. The names which are heard are in the world [...] deceive. If they were in the Aeon (eternal realm), they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the Aeon.


Then Bartholomew said to him: "How (is it that) <he> was designated in the Gospel "Man" and "Son of Man"? To which of them, then, is this Son related?"
The Holy One said to him: "I want you to know that First Man is called "Begetter, Self-perfected Mind" . He reflected with Great Sophia , his consort, and revealed his first-begotten, androgynous son. His male name is designated "First Begetter, Son of God" , his female name, "First Begettress Sophia, Mother of the Universe" . Some call her "Love" . Now First-begotten is called "Christ" . Since he has authority from his father, he created a multitude of angels without number for retinue from Spirit and Light."
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html)

Thereafter he (Sabaoth) created a congregation of angels, thousands and myriads, numberless, which resembled the congregation in the eighth heaven; and a firstborn called

Israel - which is, "the man that sees God"; and another being, called Jesus Christ, who resembles the savior above in the eighth heaven, = (My note: ninth heaven) and who sits at his right upon a revered throne. (the right hand way judge) And at his left, there sits the virgin of the holy spirit, upon a throne and glorifying him. And the seven virgins stand before her, [...] possessing thirty harps, and psalteries and trumpets, glorifying him. And all the armies of the angels glorify him, and they bless him. Now where he sits is upon a throne of light [within a] great cloud that covers him. And there was no one with him in the cloud except Sophia [the daughter of] Pistis, instructing him about all the things that exist in the eighth heaven, so that the likenesses of those things might be created, in order that his reign might endure until the consummation of the heavens of chaos and their forces.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html)

MELCHIZEDEK
But all the tribes and all the peoples will speak the truth who are receiving from you yourself, O Melchizedek, Holy One, High-Priest, the perfect hope and the gifts of life. I am Gamaliel, who was sent to <...> the congregation of the children of Seth, who are above thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, of the aeons <...> essence of the aeons, aba<...> aiai ababa. O divine <...> of the <...> nature <...>! O Mother of the aeons, Barbelo! O first-born of the aeons, splendid Doxomedon Dom<...>! O glorious one, Jesus Christ! O chief commanders of the luminaries, you powers Armozel, Oroiael, Daveithe, Eleleth, and you man-of-light, immortal aeon Pigera-Adamas, and you good god of the beneficent worlds, Mirocheirothetou, through Jesus Christ, the Son of God! This is the one whom I proclaim, inasmuch as there has visited the One who truly exists, among those who exist <...> do(es) not exist, Abel Baruch - that you (sg.) might be given the knowledge of the truth <...>, that he is from the race of the High-priest, which is above thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, of the aeons. The adverse spirits are ignorant of him, and (of) their (own) destruction. Not only (that, but) I have come to reveal to you the truth, which is within the brethren. He included himself in the living offering, together with your offspring. He offered them up as an offering to the All. For it is not cattle that you will offer up for sin(s) of unbelief, and for the ignorances, and (for) all the wicked deeds which they will do <...>. And they do not reach the Father of the All <...> the faith ...
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/melchiz.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/melchiz.html)

Here comes logical Spiritual truth for all of you! ...... Because he is part of the beginning and presents the true "First-begotten" in the overall story!
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Now these things I have presented to you - I am Jesus Christ, the Son of Man, who is exalted above the heavens - O perfect and incorruptible ones, because of the incorruptible and perfect mystery and the ineffable one. But they think that we decreed them before the foundation of the world, in order that, when we emerge from the places of the world, we may present there the symbols of incorruption from the spiritual union unto knowledge. You do not know it, because the fleshly cloud overshadows you. But I alone am the friend of Sophia. I have been in the bosom of the father from the beginning, in the place of the sons of the truth, and the Greatness. Rest then with me, my fellow spirits and my brothers, forever.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/2seth.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/2seth.html)

Matthew said to him: "Lord, no one can find the truth except through you. Therefore teach us the truth."
The Savior said: "He Who Is is ineffable. No principle knew him, no authority, no subjection, nor any creature from the foundation of the world until now, except he alone, and anyone to whom he wants to make revelation through him who is from First Light. From now on, I am the Great Savior. For he is immortal and eternal. Now he is eternal, having no birth; for everyone who has birth will perish. He is unbegotten, having no beginning; for everyone who has a beginning has an end. Since no one rules over him, he has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another."

(BG 84, 13-17 adds: He is unnameable. He has no human form; for whoever has human form is the creation of another).
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html)

[vancity eagle]

Greeks ALREADY HAD "The Concept of Sin/Salvation/Faith/Demons", way before Christianity, and in fact, also worshipped throughout Judea

sin is not a concept that somebody makes up, it is always there from the beginning. The Greeks did not invent sin, what kind of nonsense are you talking about. Many cultures have ideas about salvation/after life, and demons, it wasn't the Greeks who started this. I dont see what point you are trying to prove. Christianity is simply a continuation of the Old Testament law which was around before the Greeks became any significant civilization.

[roman piso]

sin is not a concept that somebody makes up, it is always there from the beginning. The Greeks did not invent sin, what kind of nonsense are you talking about. Many cultures have ideas about salvation/after life, and demons, it wasn't the Greeks who started this. I dont see what point you are trying to prove. Christianity is simply a continuation of the Old Testament law which was around before the Greeks became any significant civilization.

A Continuation of Greek Philosophy, The Torah, is Hellenistic, developed when Judea became Hellenized after Alexander the Great [God] had conquered Judea.

[vancity eagle]

To be honest, I'd rather not go any further in this discussion, I am sure it will result in a heated argument, all I have to say to you, Islam recognises Christ, "Issa" (Peace be upon him) but there are differences, and those differences are up to the individual to interpret them.

The OT, speaks about Jesus, but the "ones" who fabricated stories stroke him out, they didn't want to recognise him as the Messiah and they don't believe that he will return.

Islam says it clearly that he will return to establish peace on earth.
Islam does not support death penalty as many seem to think, don't judge by what some "dictators" do in the so called Muslim world, one thing you need to really bear in mind, is that those leaders are against God they work and obey the NWO their masters, they are trying to destroy the very essence of Islam from within, like they are trying to destroy Christianity and Judaism, to give the outsiders a false image of what Islam is.


But I will stop here, I honestly don't want to go any further in this discussion, every time there is a religious debate it ends up in arguments and insults and personal attacks, slandering etc.. so.. I won't go any further, I hope you don't take it the wrong way.




Islam does not ignore anything about Jesus, anything that is true, Islam also mentions every single Prophet, and there is a whole Chapter dedicated to Mary (Meriam) and Jesus (Issa)

Islam calls him the son of Meriam, Ibnu Meriem, The three religions are all Abrahimic religions, they all bring the fundamental same message, Monotheism.

The differences we have to work through them.
As I said for me religion is a personal and private thing.
Anyway this is my stop. Good luck with the discussion

I am not looking for any conflict, rather further understanding on things. I know Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet, but how do you explain the end of the death penalty for sins under the OT law, if he did not die to replace the sacrificial law, like the OT states would happen in prophecy. You do realiae that under the law of God, if one transgresses certain laws, you are to be put to death. The OT clearly prophecies that the son of God would reverse this.

I also have a question, if Christ is just the same as all the prophets, (which I admit might be my misconception of Islam) why is it that he specifically returns to restore order on earth ? Why isn't it Elijah, or Moses, or whomever ?

[vancity eagle]

A Continuation of Greek Philosophy, The Torah, is Hellenistic, developed when Judea became Hellenized after Alexander the Great [God] had conquered Judea.

Greek philosophy has nothing to do with the Torah. They worshiped Gods who mixed with mankind. This is your Zeus and other TItans. These Gods lived on Mount Olympus. This is just the Greek version of texts like The Book of Enoch. The Greeks sacrificed pigs in the temple of the Israelites, they have nothing to do with the OT, where are you getting this info from ?

[roman piso]

Greek philosophy has nothing to do with the Torah. They worshiped Gods who mixed with mankind. This is your Zeus and other TItans. These Gods lived on Mount Olympus. This is just the Greek version of texts like The Book of Enoch. The Greeks sacrificed pigs in the temple of the Israelites, they have nothing to do with the OT, where are you getting this info from ?

Greeks would actually sacrifice a LAMB on the Passover, to the God Zeus, or its Romanized form "Yove/Yahve/Yahweh", in HERODS Temple.

Herod was Hellenistic, proven by Coins and Epigraphy.

All the Concepts in Torah, are found in Greek Philosophy and Mythology, in fact, "Judea/Idaea" was actually named after a Greek Mountain "Ida", where Zeus/Yahve was raised/Born?,thus, the reason, why David/Jesus are born in Judea[IDAEA], also a Greek Nymph

[oiram]

I also have a question, if Christ is just the same as all the prophets, (which I admit might be my misconception of Islam) why is it that he specifically returns to restore order on earth ? Why isn't it Elijah, or Moses, or whomever ?
I applaud you to ask your question because now you half way there to get your answer!

Your question is a very, very good one & if you really research into the Jesus character & who he really represents you will find the true answer to your question!

And yes only the Jesus image will for-fill the restoring part on earth not on his own; but in his image and in unity.

Its already in progress by the way!

Look I don't like to take out the fun of researching; so hopefully you will get into it a bit to find your true answer because the answer is there!

If I just spell it out would not do the trick because it has to be found on an individual base & your personal great question is the key to find the true answer!

I will say though some of the links I have provided in my previous post would get you the answer if you start to understand the writing's.

A bit of Spirituality & logic will do it! >>> if needed you read it once twice or three times until the answer shows in-front of your face!

No I'm not joking!

What I did is that I let my computer read out the text to me & I lean back & relax and concentrate on the words spoken.

I had great success with this; by doing this straight after waking up in the morning by keeping my eyes shut & concentrating fully on the words.

2. A Wise Man said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr40/413200/Forum/SeekLuke-11-9.jpg

I like to add these hints! >> I say Jesus can be found in the text below once you understand what Jesus represents!

What does the word Light presents in scripture? ....
What does the word virgin presents in scripture? ....
What does the word Holy Spirit presents in scripture? ....
What does the virgin birth presents in scripture? ....

43. What is the human being?
The human being is a spirit (PNEUMA) endowed with reason and with free will combined with a soul and an animal body.

44. What is an animal?
It is a certain kind of soul (ANIMA, PSYCHE) combined with a body (SOMA).

45. In what way does the human differ from the animal?
The human being differs from the animal in that the human is connected with his true nature which is spirit.

46. Where does the spirit of the human being come from?
The spirit of the human being originates in the Divine Fullness (PLEROMA), from whence it descended into the soul and body.

47. How may the spirit (PNEUMA) of the human being be described?
The human spirit is a spark of God's light, an effective part of God, separated from God in outer manifestation, but retaining a living connection with its ultimate source.
http://www.gnosis.org/ecclesia/catechism.htm#LESSON III (http://www.gnosis.org/ecclesia/catechism.htm#LESSON III)

[logos880]

it might not be deception, but I find some choice of English words to translate certain Hebrew and Greek words highly suspicious, seemingly with an intent to mislead about what is meant in the original text. I am referring to the King James version, yet the newer versions are even much worse.

Maybe so or maybe not, it's hard to know the minds of the translators without talking with them personally, ya know? Ultimately, G-d allows the bible to be the way that it is. :)

[roman piso]

Maybe so or maybe not, it's hard to know the minds of the translators without talking with them personally, ya know? Ultimately, G-d allows the bible to be the way that it is. :)

The Author and Editors allows the Bible to be that Way.

No divinity needed

[adbasque]

I am not looking for any conflict, rather further understanding on things. I know Islam recognizes Christ as a prophet, but how do you explain the end of the death penalty for sins under the OT law, if he did not die to replace the sacrificial law, like the OT states would happen in prophecy. You do realiae that under the law of God, if one transgresses certain laws, you are to be put to death. The OT clearly prophecies that the son of God would reverse this.

I also have a question, if Christ is just the same as all the prophets, (which I admit might be my misconception of Islam) why is it that he specifically returns to restore order on earth ? Why isn't it Elijah, or Moses, or whomever ?

I will try and answer your questions, unfortunately I don't like talking about religion on forums I like the face to face but in this case it is not possible so we will try and do our best to reach some understanding.

First as Oiram states Islam affirms that Jesus did not die on the cross, second "GOD" is not a man, or a human being he has not begotten, he creates he created other creatures.

The reasons why Jesus was born without a father is not because he is a GOD he is a man just like you and me, he bleeds, eats, drinks, sleeps.

However he did not die, because as Islam states he will definitely return (I can hear some giggling already, but that's fine).

Two, if Christianity is about Monotheism it beats the purpose, because what is Monotheism? "The father, the Son and the holy spirit" a trinity, I would really advise you to search first the origin of the trinity, I can't tell you because they would be a biased view, I would like you to research it please, the very origin of the trinity and you will see that it was "NEVER" part of Christianity.

And for the Sins, it simply doesn't make sense, as if you commit murder but your father paid for it in advance, does that make any sense to you?

No we are on this earth as "Individuals" as far as God is concerned, we will be judged according our "DEEDS" No prophet, no one will pay for your sins.

It is very misleading, Jesus never ever said "My father" he even said to them these are your words not mine.

Like I said I am not looking for a conflict or to get involved in these kinds of useless heated arguments.

For your last question, I will explain it, as Jesus is the "Only" one who didn't die, he was lifted from this earth, therefore he will return, dead people don't come back, the other prophets died, and each prophet has his mission, they don't all do the same things.

Moses came with miracles too, and so did Suleiman or "Solomon" and many other prophets produced miracles.

And if you say is a "Misconception " of Islam it's like saying Islam is not a religion, or it wasn't sent from the same G-D.

There is no misconception, as a matter of fact Islam warns on what was done to Christianity.

Like I said before one has to understand 5 things.

What is the point of a religion?
How it all started?
When it happened?
Why are there 3 religions?
What happened in between these religions?

These are very crucial key question if one want to understand the whole concept of G-D and religions.

If not, you will be wasting your time.. in going around in circles.

[logos880]

The Author and Editors allows the Bible to be that Way.

No divinity needed

whatever helps you sleep at night. ;)

[khepera2010]

The truth is, the message came in three parts and there are good reasons why it came in three parts there are oceans of reasons why, and oceans of differences although those "differences" might appear to be small, but they are real differences.

First we need to know why it happened?
Two, how it all happened?
I am not going to tell you which religion is right or wrong, it's for you to find that out, and you will, but you MUST understand "their purpose" first.

If you just want to brush it aside and follow what some people keep repeating, "Control system" man made, etc.. we've heard this over and over again.

When you ask them "Which control?" usually they don't have an answer, because they heard and they simply repeat it.


I am going to cite a few things that religion defended against and the things that it promoted over the centuries:

Gambling
Stealing
Lying
Abusing
Looking after the weak
Looking after the orphan
Equality (real one)
No use of Usury
One man rule or a group of men ruling
No monarchies (kings and Queens) are myths never existed in religion, even if some people think they did.

Like I said I'd rather not go any further, because it always end up in stupid arguments and hostilities.

I think it's personal it's for the individual to find out for him/herself, and it's nobody else's business.

Nope, still don't agree. Sorry, but all the Abrahamic religions are just the ramblings of men who are seeking to support the social/economic ruling elite and the control system of their area of the world......and beyond.

The Divine, The Creative Intelligence, the ONE who created the Universe, is far FAR beyond Human needs such as requiring people to acknowledge his/her greatness and then needing to minutely control those 'worshippers' as far as the 'abrahamic holy books' do.

I will NEVER get my head around anyone who feels the need to bend the knee to another. 'ALL is God' (and I mean ALL and not just human conciousness) and 'the Divine plan' was never that we should submit ourselves to anything.

[adbasque]

Nope, still don't agree. Sorry, but all the Abrahamic religions are just the ramblings of men who are seeking to support the social/economic ruling elite and the control system of their area of the world......and beyond.

The Divine, The Creative Intelligence, the ONE who created the Universe, is far FAR beyond Human needs such as requiring people to acknowledge his/her greatness and then needing to minutely control those 'worshippers' as far as the 'abrahamic holy books' do.

I will NEVER get my head around anyone who feels the need to bend the knee to another. 'ALL is God' (and I mean ALL and not just human conciousness) and 'the Divine plan' was never that we should submit ourselves to anything.

You kneel to G-D not anyone, G-D is not anyone, but I would like you to explain to me, in your own words, how is this control that everybody talks about, but yet nobody can define.

Tell me what is in a religion that you see as a control and especially when you say we support the social/economic ruling of the Elite, which is completely the opposite, let me ask you few questions and you answer me how does this "control" works, ok?


First we start, by saying in case you're unaware religion was the first to fight the ruling Elite, the ones that want to get rid of the "word" God, the word religion except "Theirs" Luciferian/Satanists.

You can look it up throughout history, religion was fighting these evil people by trying to wake people up, the minute people start to drop religion look at what's happening now.


Right let's start about this Economic and social control you talk about, but you have to define it for me, you can't just call it "Control" show me how it is a control how it works etc.., ok?

Religion, warns us about all dangers even the secret evil dangers out there, if you think people are just happen to be aware than I'll tell you think again.

It promotes,
Unity
Love
Equality
Fairness
Justice

To care for others, to love others, to never betray people, to never hurt others, to share, to give, to be patient, to be compassionate, to seek knowledge, to learn, to teach, to help.

Warns against the dangers, like..
Diseases
Things that can hurt you, personally and hurt your entourage
Against the destruction of family ties, the list is really endless so I am curious to see where is this control, you think by saying ignoring religion it makes you a free thinker? No, on contrary, whether you like it or not, you will belong to something, the choice is either God's law or Satan's law there aren't any other choices, you can laugh if you like but nevertheless it's still the truth.

This religion that you keep saying it is a control is scientifically proven to be a reality.
I for one don't believe in coincidences, so anything that is happening or has happened was "orchestrated" nothing happens by chance.

Another thing people are NOT aware, is this devil's deception, we are "One" this is not true, we are not one, you are who you are and I am who I am, we are individuals on this earth and in the other life, we will leave this physical life yes to another dimension but we are not "ONE"

Another thing, if you do a little research about the "ONE" concept you will see where it originate from who really promotes this idea of "ONE"

You will be very surprised, that is the weapon used by our great enemy "Satan" whether you believe he exists or not is irrelevant at this point, his biggest deception is to convince the son of Adam he doesn't exist.

He also makes you believe there's nothing but this life, everything happens here, and we are all "ONE" it's entirely false, why would the CREATOR make billions and billions and billions of us if we are just one? Would that be pointless?

What do you think when people say he or she sold his /her soul to the devil, do you think it's just an expression?
That means you will be rewarded on this earth, you will obey his orders and do what he wants, in exchange of a small power and perhaps money.

Why would religion oppose the usury?
Why would religion oppose murders?
Why would religion oppose lies and hypocrisy?
Why would religion oppose treachery?
Why would religion oppose other things? (that some can't see the immediate harm, but that doesn't mean there isn't one)

Answer me these questions and explain to me where do you see the control?

Only Lucifer promotes "Do as you will" No consequences.
Do as you please ...

Like I said, there is a lot to this than these few words, and that is why I don't like debating religion on forums. it is not a clear cut black or white it is deeper than the ocean.

The divine plan is to submit yourself to G-D and only G-D no kings, no prophets, no nothing or nobody.
That is what religion teaches us

[oiram]

You kneel to G-D not anyone, G-D is not anyone, but I would like you to explain to me, in your own words, how is this control that everybody talks about, but yet nobody can define.

Tell me what is in a religion that you see as a control and especially when you say we support the social/economic ruling of the Elite, which is completely the opposite, let me ask you few questions and you answer me how does this "control" works, ok?


First we start, by saying in case you're unaware religion was the first to fight the ruling Elite, the ones that want to get rid of the "word" God, the word religion except "Theirs" Luciferian/Satanists.

You can look it up throughout history, religion was fighting these evil people by trying to wake people up, the minute people start to drop religion look at what's happening now.


Right let's start about this Economic and social control you talk about, but you have to define it for me, you can't just call it "Control" show me how it is a control how it works etc.., ok?

Religion, warns us about all dangers even the secret evil dangers out there, if you think people are just happen to be aware than I'll tell you think again.

It promotes,
Unity
Love
Equality
Fairness
Justice

To care for others, to love others, to never betray people, to never hurt others, to share, to give, to be patient, to be compassionate, to seek knowledge, to learn, to teach, to help.

Warns against the dangers, like..
Diseases
Things that can hurt you, personally and hurt your entourage
Against the destruction of family ties, the list is really endless so I am curious to see where is this control, you think by saying ignoring religion it makes you a free thinker? No, on contrary, whether you like it or not, you will belong to something, the choice is either God's law or Satan's law there aren't any other choices, you can laugh if you like but nevertheless it's still the truth.

This religion that you keep saying it is a control is scientifically proven to be a reality.
I for one don't believe in coincidences, so anything that is happening or has happened was "orchestrated" nothing happens by chance.

Another thing people are NOT aware, is this devil's deception, we are "One" this is not true, we are not one, you are who you are and I am who I am, we are individuals on this earth and in the other life, we will leave this physical life yes to another dimension but we are not "ONE"

Another thing, if you do a little research about the "ONE" concept you will see where it originate from who really promotes this idea of "ONE"

You will be very surprised, that is the weapon used by our great enemy "Satan" whether you believe he exists or not is irrelevant at this point, his biggest deception is to convince the son of Adam he doesn't exist.

He also makes you believe there's nothing but this life, everything happens here, and we are all "ONE" it's entirely false, why would the CREATOR make billions and billions and billions of us if we are just one? Would that be pointless?

What do you think when people say he or she sold his /her soul to the devil, do you think it's just an expression?
That means you will be rewarded on this earth, you will obey his orders and do what he wants, in exchange of a small power and perhaps money.

Why would religion oppose the usury?
Why would religion oppose murders?
Why would religion oppose lies and hypocrisy?
Why would religion oppose treachery?
Why would religion oppose other things? (that some can't see the immediate harm, but that doesn't mean there isn't one)

Answer me these questions and explain to me where do you see the control?

Only Lucifer promotes "Do as you will" No consequences.
Do as you please ...

Like I said, there is a lot to this than these few words, and that is why I don't like debating religion on forums. it is not a clear cut black or white it is deeper than the ocean.

The divine plan is to submit yourself to G-D and only G-D no kings, no prophets, no nothing or nobody.
That is what religion teaches us
Well said!

The confusions is that the true base religion gets confused with the actions of the individuals which operating in the religious organisations & trying to make a mockery out of it by corruption & manipulation!

Most do not understand that the forefathers work was created so we are warned about all the danger which was in action already in there times & continued on till today!

Yes it is far reaching & all over! That's why I kept away from organized religion but not from the words of truth!

There surely must be some religious places which teaching the original truth; but where are they?? ... that's a big problem they still have to hide like in the old days.

But there are physical corruptions or mistranslations (on purpose & un-purposely) in all of the Books; but that's why we have been supplied with a God given logical brain so we have the ability to filter out these corrupted parts from the original base concept!

The Sword of The Spirit - The Word of God
Eph 6:10-17 (NIV) ...
Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

[vancity eagle]

Greeks would actually sacrifice a LAMB on the Passover, to the God Zeus, or its Romanized form "Yove/Yahve/Yahweh", in HERODS Temple.

Herod was Hellenistic, proven by Coins and Epigraphy.

All the Concepts in Torah, are found in Greek Philosophy and Mythology, in fact, "Judea/Idaea" was actually named after a Greek Mountain "Ida", where Zeus/Yahve was raised/Born?,thus, the reason, why David/Jesus are born in Judea[IDAEA], also a Greek Nymph

the greeks sacrificed pigs in the temple, this is well known history, they did this as an insult to the Israelite traditions, that you claim they created which is blatantly false.
The tetragramaton is not the name of God, it is actually one of the high names for Satan, so yes it would be an equivalent of Zeus.
Herod was an edomite, so yes he is a cousin of the Greeks and Romans, who were also edomites. Herod was not an Israelite.
Dude many people have tried to claim that the Bible was stolen from other traditions without any real proof. Even if it is similar to other traditions, this doesn't mean it was stolen, if anything it just proves that these things actually happened and that other cultures and traditions have recorded their own versions of the same accounts.

[roman piso]

the greeks sacrificed pigs in the temple, this is well known history, they did this as an insult to the Israelite traditions, that you claim they created which is blatantly false.
The tetragramaton is not the name of God, it is actually one of the high names for Satan, so yes it would be an equivalent of Zeus.
Herod was an edomite, so yes he is a cousin of the Greeks and Romans, who were also edomites. Herod was not an Israelite.
Dude many people have tried to claim that the Bible was stolen from other traditions without any real proof. Even if it is similar to other traditions, this doesn't mean it was stolen, if anything it just proves that these things actually happened and that other cultures and traditions have recorded their own versions of the same accounts.

Tetragramaton Y_H_V_H in Latin becomes I_O_V_E [Jove] commonly known as "JUPITER", or "Zeus", I equate Satan, more with the Brother of Zeus, Poseidon[Piso_Satan], also because Zeus is the King of the Gods, and Poseidon alike Satan, is seen as jealous over him

"Satan" is an alias for the Gospel' author, whom is Piso [Piso-Satan]

The word itself, goes back to Egyptian "YAH", the Moon God, and an Attribute of "RA", a PHALLUS GOD, All GODS[Male] ALL represent the Male Genitalia


The Hebrew Tablet of Nations are Myth, and a Copy of the Greek Tablet of Nations, also a myth., remember, the Piso's turned Mithra into Myth-ra [Christianity].

Does not matter what Animal they sacrifice, its the same thing.

[vancity eagle]

I will try and answer your questions, unfortunately I don't like talking about religion on forums I like the face to face but in this case it is not possible so we will try and do our best to reach some understanding.

Were on a religion form my friend, let us discuss and debate, it doesn't mean we are fighting or have a problem with each other.

First as Oiram states Islam affirms that Jesus did not die on the cross, second "GOD" is not a man, or a human being he has not begotten, he creates he created other creatures.

I dont know what you mean by GOD being a man, I know GOD as the creator of all things. Maybe you are talking about some Christian Dogma that Christ is GOD. This is very misleading as the Bible never says that Christ is the same as GOD but that he is part of the GOD head, the first family of the universe. He is a seperate being from the Creator.
Regarding Islam saying he did not die on a cross, or die period, I am asking you how do you explain the reconciliation between GOD and man, whereby the Israelites would not have to live under the old covenant of sacrifice for breaking sins. Like I said the OT prophets foretold of this. So if you believe this never happened that means as a follower of GOD you would have to punish people through death for their breaking of GOD's laws. The laws in Islam I assume are the laws of Moses right ?

The reasons why Jesus was born without a father is not because he is a GOD he is a man just like you and me, he bleeds, eats, drinks, sleeps.

Of course he was a man, but he is also a spirit like we are all spirits, however his spirit is the Son of GOD directly. The OT and the Book of Enoch both speak of the son of GOD. GOD first created the Holy Spirit(his female companion) and the his son, then he created his angels, and then the beasts of the earth and mankind.

However he did not die, because as Islam states he will definitely return (I can hear some giggling already, but that's fine).

He died in a fleshly sense, but his spirit of course never died. Islam agrees he will return, which is good, but I feel you must ask yourself, why it is Christ who leads the angels when they return, if he was just an ordinary man.

Two, if Christianity is about Monotheism it beats the purpose, because what is Monotheism? "The father, the Son and the holy spirit" a trinity, I would really advise you to search first the origin of the trinity, I can't tell you because they would be a biased view, I would like you to research it please, the very origin of the trinity and you will see that it was "NEVER" part of Christianity.

If you are talking about Zietgeist and that type of research which promotes the whole "Christianity is really Pagan sun worship" idea, that has been debunked. Yes there is Pagan Christianity, but these ideas you will find are not in the Bible, and yes there is a Pagan trinity, however this is just Satan trying to mimic what is true. Satan always has a counterfit of GOD's creation. GOD's family is a three, so Satan mimicked this with a Satanic trinity. In the same way Satan has mimicked a false Israel after GOD's chosen people. The trinity was always a part of Christianity. In Genesis why do you think it said "let us make man in our image" The image was GOD his wife so to speak and his son. Why do you think GOD in Hebrew was Elohim which was plural. It is actually pronounced Allahayam, plural of Allah.

And for the Sins, it simply doesn't make sense, as if you commit murder but your father paid for it in advance, does that make any sense to you?

You are partly right, the Christian churches have decieved people concerning this issue. GOD said not to sin (breaking commandments) If you do you die. Adam and Eve had only one commandment, and that was to not eat of the tree of knowledge. They were told the penalty was death. They ate.
Believe it or not Moses was not the first to recieve GODS law after the fall of man. Abraham and people like Enoch before him had GOD's laws. Under OT law you die if you commit adultery, murder, idolotary and other sins as well. You don't get a second chance or grace. Again the OT tells of a time where a new covenant will be made where GOD's people would have mercy or grace from GOD. If you deny this you are denying the very prophets that Islam claims to recognize, for they wrote of this to come.
Now back to your question. The churches have made people believe that they can sin all they want, and that Christ died so they will go to heaven, regardless of what they do on this earth. This is blatantly false. What Christs sacrifice means is that the OT law of death no longer applies. What we now have is a grace period to fall under the law before our death. It does not mean man has a free pass to sin and be protected. I suggest you read Hebrews the 10th and 11th chapter , it is very clearly explained.

No we are on this earth as "Individuals" as far as God is concerned, we will be judged according our "DEEDS" No prophet, no one will pay for your sins.

Yes you are mainly correct. The BIble says we will be judged by our deeds, Christ himself said it many times. In fact it is Christ who will judge men. The angels have recorded all of our works and these are all written down in the books that Christ will bring before us at judgement. However Christ's death means that we actually get a second chance, whereas if we sinned once under the old agreement, we were to be put to death.

It is very misleading, Jesus never ever said "My father" he even said to them these are your words not mine.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Like I said I am not looking for a conflict or to get involved in these kinds of useless heated arguments.

I'm not heated just debating, what else are we here for ?

For your last question, I will explain it, as Jesus is the "Only" one who didn't die, he was lifted from this earth, therefore he will return, dead people don't come back, the other prophets died, and each prophet has his mission, they don't all do the same things.

Again the Old testament said he would die, the new testament said he would die, again only in a worldly way. Ask yourself where has he been all this time that he should come back thousands of years later. Why him ?

Moses came with miracles too, and so did Suleiman or "Solomon" and many other prophets produced miracles.

If you have the Holy spirit working with you , miracles are possible.

And if you say is a "Misconception " of Islam it's like saying Islam is not a religion, or it wasn't sent from the same G-D.

I said that it might be my misconception of Islam that they saw Christ as just another prophet, you haven't told me otherwise, other than the fact that he didn't die and will return.

There is no misconception, as a matter of fact Islam warns on what was done to Christianity.

What was done to Christianity, or what was done to the Bible, these are 2 clearly different things. What is it that Islam warns about ?

Like I said before one has to understand 5 things.

What is the point of a religion?

to follow the laws of GOD

How it all started?

GOD revealing himself to man and giving laws of the universe, whether it be Adam, Seth, Enoch, Abraham, Moses etc.

When it happened?

look above.

Why are there 3 religions?

Judaism failed to recognize the messiah outright
Islam failed to recognize the messiah in a more subtle way
Christianity recognizes the messiah

What happened in between these religions?

Between the birth of Christianity and the birth of Islam was approx 600 years where those following Christ were mainly killed off, the Israelites were forced from their land and destroyed as a nation. Christianity was co-opted by the Beast (Rome), and this new Pagan creation began to spread. The Roman church would attack and kill those who did not follow their new Pagan doctrines. However they did not use the Bible to promote these doctrines. If the Bible was really tampered with as I think you believe, why then would they not include things like Christmas, Sunday worship. Why would they not have included things like "Kill for GOD and you will be saved" "Pay the church and you will be saved". It doesn't add up.

These are very crucial key question if one want to understand the whole concept of G-D and religions.

If not, you will be wasting your time.. in going around in circles.

[adbasque]

Judaism failed to recognize the messiah outright
Islam failed to recognize the messiah in a more subtle way
Christianity recognizes the messiah



As I said to you before I really don't like discussing religion on a forum, it requires a lot of information all of this information has to be typed, and It's not the ideal place to discuss religion, too many things to cover in order to explain and understand one another.

First when people discuss religion they should put their emotions aside, you cannot debate emotionally, be prepared that you might be wrong, or you might not know the whole truth, and perhaps everything you knew up until now has been manufactured.

Now, let me explain one thing to you, G-D is the almighty creator of all things, he created you the same way he created Jesus or Issa. (Peace be up on him)

There is a reason why G-D created him that way, and the reason is two miles long.

You're gonna have to research it, now if you're happy with what you know, fine, I am not here to make you change your mind or influence you in anyway.

You need to explain to me, what do you mean Islam failed to recognise the messiah in a subtly way, it makes no sense at all, either it recognises him or not all, there is subtle way.

Islam states very clearly who is Jesus, what he is going to to do on his return and so on..
The truth is, I am not sure you know anything about Islam to be honest, you sound like someone who repeats what he heard from someone else.

You need to do the research yourself and take an unbiased approach you will see that Islam fully recognises Jesus.

Let me just give you one thing and I'll let you think about it. the whole idea of Monotheism is not to associate G-D with anyone or anything.

When you say in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost, you are associating him and you go even further by stating that Jesus is the Son of G-D, No G-D doesn't have a son, G-D is G-D he creates humans he doesn't share his spirit with us in that sense.

We are the sons of Adam, G-D has created many things other beings etc..
Second, why would G-D send his son to be tortured, humiliated, killed and so on?? Doesn't that strike as a bizarre thing?

And finally Jesus didn't and will not pay for anyone's sins, we have to pay for our sins, not you father, not your mother, not your children.

Jesus is not dead, he will return to restore peace on this earth, but he is not a Semi God or the son of God, it is not in the original Bible that is hidden under the Vatican if you really want to know, he clearly said it to them, I am not a King, I am not the son of God these are your words not mine.

If you want to find out about the true Christianity it has nothing to do with what you know as the Bible today, and I am not saying this to insult you or your belief, however if you're truly seeking to discover the truth then you have to an open mind.

The Roman empire and rulers did everything they could to hide the true Bible from people and replaced it with one of their own by adding ancient pagans beliefs to it.

Now it's up to you and I really don't want to enter these kinds of debates they tend to lead to insults and very heated arguments and it is not my cup of tea.
Good luck

[vancity eagle]

Now, let me explain one thing to you, G-D is the almighty creator of all things, he created you the same way he created Jesus or Issa. (Peace be up on him)


You need to explain to me, what do you mean Islam failed to recognise the messiah in a subtly way, it makes no sense at all, either it recognises him or not all, there is subtle way.

Islam denys that he is the son of God, and sent by GOD directly to form a new covenant for mankind. Again the OT (which Islam is based upon) clearly states this. Are you suggesting this prophecy in the OT is false, or was injected there by the catholic church, because these all predate the Catholic church.

Islam states very clearly who is Jesus, what he is going to to do on his return and so on..
The truth is, I am not sure you know anything about Islam to be honest, you sound like someone who repeats what he heard from someone else.

you haven't told me otherwise, you have confirmed my conceptions of Islam whereby they deny Christ as the son of God.

You need to do the research yourself and take an unbiased approach you will see that Islam fully recognises Jesus.

As a prophet and no different than the others, again unless you tell me otherwise.

Let me just give you one thing and I'll let you think about it. the whole idea of Monotheism is not to associate G-D with anyone or anything.

When you say in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost, you are associating him and you go even further by stating that Jesus is the Son of G-D, No G-D doesn't have a son, G-D is G-D he creates humans he doesn't share his spirit with us in that sense.

In the book of Genesis the beginning of all things when GOD said "let us make man in our image" who is the us ? what is our image ? Why did GOD make man AND female. Why did the female come out of the man ? It is the same way the Holy spirit came out of GOD. Of course you are going to say "this was all tampered with right ?"

We are the sons of Adam, G-D has created many things other beings etc..
Second, why would G-D send his son to be tortured, humiliated, killed and so on?? Doesn't that strike as a bizarre thing?

I dont claim to understand the science of how GOD's world works, but he clearly states that sin equals death, and he told his prophets that in the future man would have grace because there would be a perfect sacrifice so man would not have to live under the old testament of death penalty. So it makes sense enough to me. Does GOD not recognize sin ? Are there not punishments for sin ? Did the Israelites who recieved GOD's law not live under a law where certain sins were punished by death ? Did Isaiah not tell of the future where this law would be fulfilled by Christ ? Answer these questions ? Remember Christ's fleshly death is just that the death of the flesh, like we will all die in the flesh.

And finally Jesus didn't and will not pay for anyone's sins, we have to pay for our sins, not you father, not your mother, not your children.

Again you are misunderstanding the true meaning of this concept. No longer do people have to be put to death for sinning, we have a grace period to follow GOD's laws.

Jesus is not dead, he will return to restore peace on this earth, but he is not a Semi God or the son of God, it is not in the original Bible that is hidden under the Vatican if you really want to know, he clearly said it to them, I am not a King, I am not the son of God these are your words not mine.

Yes you are believing all that Vatican/catholic church conspiracy that they completely changed the Bible. I do conceed there were some small subtle things that were done, but the main content of the Bible has not been altered. The Book of Enoch , which the Vatican and Protestant churches claim is fake also pronounces Christs divinity, let me share you these scriptures from Enoch, which have survived any European manipulation.

Enoch 46:2 And I asked the one from among the angels, who was going with me, and who had revealed to me all the secrets regarding the One who was born of human beings. "Who is this, and from whence is he who is going as the prototype of the before time ?" And he answered me and said to me "This is the Son of Man, to whom belongs righteousness, and with whom righteousness dwells. And he will open all the hidden storerooms, for GOD has chosen him, and he is destined to be victorious before GOD in eternal uprightness.

Even before the flood Enoch knew Christ would be chosen by GOD

Enoch 48:3 At that hour, that son of man was given a name, in the presence of GOD, the before time, even before the creation of the sun and the moon, before the creation of the stars, he was given a name in the presence of GOD. He will become a staff for the righteous ones in order that they may lean on him and not fall. He is the light of the gentiles and he will become the hope of those who are sick in their hearts. All those who dwell upon the earth shall fall and worship before him, they shall magnify, bless and sing the name of GOD. For this purpose he became the chosen one, he was concealed in the presence of GOD prior to the creation of the world, and for eternity. And he has revealed the wisdom of GOD to the righteous and to the holy ones, for he has preserved the portion of the righteous because they have hated and despised this world of oppression together with all its ways of life and its habits in the name of GOD, and because they will be saved in his name and it is his good pleasure that they have life.

It is clear according to these scriptures that Christ was created in the beginning for a specific reason , before the stars, sun , moon, before the beasts and mankind. This fits in directly with the old and new testament that Christ was created in the very beginniing, the son of God. Sorry but this is not Vatican deception. The Vatican hates the book of Enoch.

If you want to find out about the true Christianity it has nothing to do with what you know as the Bible today, and I am not saying this to insult you or your belief, however if you're truly seeking to discover the truth then you have to an open mind.

so in a nutshell the bible is tampered with by the Vatican, but the Quran is untampered with and the true word of GOD, yet the Quran is based on a book that was tampered with. Okay sure. Like I said there are many books that are not part of the bible like Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees, which all support what is written in the bible.

The Roman empire and rulers did everything they could to hide the true Bible from people and replaced it with one of their own by adding ancient pagans beliefs to it.

No they added pagan beliefs to the customs, not to the written word.

Now it's up to you and I really don't want to enter these kinds of debates they tend to lead to insults and very heated arguments and it is not my cup of tea.

Its all good if you want to deny that Christ is the son of God, that puts you in the same company as the Jewish elites who run this world. Ask yourself why it is that they hate him so much , and write many disgusting things about him in their Talmud. They didn't say these things about Abraham, or Moses, or Elijah, or Isaiah. Ask yourself why is that ?
Good luck

[jorgealarcon]

Jesus was a rebel but today's Christians have fallen victims to the corruption that came later in the religion. So they clearly too a far different path.

[heartbeatsalute]

Corruption always happens in religious movements, i.e. "organized religions"
a religion is real when the master wether it be Christ or another is still alive,
once he dies and centuries pass, things are twisted around, by followers themselves. Take a look at Paedophilia in priests, Christ never talked about that saying it was right. Christ was never a friend of the state ,quite the opposite the state wanted him dead. Now the Catholic Pope deals with Heads of States, and has a vote in United nations, and is quite friendly with all of them.
It has been proposed that the next WORLD RELIGION ,be Catholicism. Of course this is a manipulated organized religion after centuries, it is not what Jesus Christ would have wanted, but it seems it happens to all religions sooner or later...

[waymarker]

..Like I said, I really can't debate religion on forums this is not a place for this, you can debate other things but religion is far more complicated and much deeper than average people think it is..

What religion you talking about mate?
You can ignore all nonchristian religions because they haven't got Jesus (God's son) in them, which narrows things right down..;)
And you can ignore the Old Testament and much of the New Testament if you want to narrow things down even more.
That leaves you with just the 4 gospels and any one of them will do because that's where Jesus 'lives'.
Here's a typical gospel, it's just a neat slimline thing that can be picked up for a few pence in bookshops, there's nothing 'complicated' in there at all, it's a piece o' cake..:)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/gosp-john.gif

[roman piso]

What religion you talking about mate?
You can ignore all nonchristian religions because they haven't got Jesus (God's son) in them, which narrows things right down..;)
And you can ignore the Old Testament and much of the New Testament if you want to narrow things down even more.
That leaves you with just the 4 gospels and any one of them will do because that's where Jesus 'lives'.
Here's a typical gospel, it's just a neat slimline thing that can be picked up for a few pence in bookshops, there's nothing 'complicated' in there at all, it's a piece o' cake..:)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/gosp-john.gif

http://thefreeman.net/journal/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Bible-Burn.bmp

Burn it

[adbasque]

Actually, IMHO, these days committed Christians (and those of other faiths) are anything BUT conformists. They stand firm against the degraded and money-obsessed mess society seems to be in danger of becoming, and fight against the march of fashionable secularism. For example, as a Christian I believe in marriage and strong family values - not exactly fashionable opinions these days! (I think, TBH, that I would have those beliefs even if I weren't a Christian.)

Mandy

I really enjoy your posts, not just this one, you seem to see and look through the usual drivel and bullshit.

Well done! (And I mean it)

[quietgirl]

I really enjoy your posts, not just this one, you seem to see and look through the usual drivel and bullshit.

Well done! (And I mean it)

Thanks - that's really kind of you to say so! :)

I aim to please! :D

Mandy

[adbasque]

Thanks - that's really kind of you to say so! :)

I aim to please! :D

Mandy

No problem, it's the truth :)

[waymarker]

[re the Bible] - Burn it

Which bit of this needs burning mate?-

"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

[adbasque]

Thanks - that's really kind of you to say so! :)

I aim to please! :D

Mandy

The one thing I noticed here, is "some" people enjoy the bashing of others as if they are the perfection itself, telling others how to live their lives, what they should or should not believe, and if you happen to believe anything different than them, you're an idiot or dumb, while the truth is they are the ones who are dumb.

Beating the Elite's drum while thinking they are free thinkers "WOW" because they reject religion, if they tried to make a little effort to look beyond the elite's bs, they can see that the Elite can't stand religion, it's been trying to destroy it since day one.


Now, I want to know what is wrong with this concept?

There is a Church or a Mosque, where people meet up regularly to help one another, live in a community.

The preacher visits anyone who doesn't turn up to church to see if everything is ok with that person "Family" what is wrong with this?

People meet up in a church and suddenly they realise that someone's house was burned down hit by lightening, so it needs to be rebuilt and very quickly, the focal point is the Church it's where everything happens people meet up and live as big family.

Destroy the church, demonise the church, break up the community, install huge supermarkets, malls, big shops, build a couple factories, people from outside that community will start flocking to the small town that inevitably and quickly becomes a big town, before you know it, nobody knows anybody anymore, everyone is a stranger.

For decades people lived a happy life in small communities never any "major" problems.

Now we have smart asses who are aware and wide awake while carrying the PTB's torch to the finishing line. (The eyes wide open, the brain gone to sleep)

If in doubt think why is the PTB attacking religion in all its forms, if it was "The control" as many claim, why are they not leaving it?

I am amazed with the so called super intelligent in our society, with people like these who needs the PTB or an enemy?

And it is not true, they are the ones attacking anyone's belief and then they turn around and say to you, you are imposing your faith, religion belief on us, a total BULLSHIT.

Check here, go and start a thread about religion and see how quickly they'll jump at you from all sides.

It is called bullying, if you don't stand up to them, unless you become like them they won't leave you in peace and yet they are the FIRST to complain, about an imposition.

To be honest every time you ask to show you and define this "control" they change the subject and jump at something else, and later in the topic they come back with the same broken record, the reason for that?

Is because they have no evidence, to back their claims, they repeat what they hear and they are nothing but repeaters.

And don't be fooled by their "We are one" bullshit the we are one unless you are like them, otherwise you will never be accepted.

With conditions, I know there are a lot of agents of all kinds people with real real agendas.

Ask them, let's unite, you are a Christian, I am a Muslim, you're an Atheist, you're a Hindu a Jew etc.. see if they would.

They do have agendas and pretend to love everyone bullshit again.

They are not interested in unity, or standing up to the Elite, because they work for the Elite, it is called infiltrating.

Anyway I am sure we have good genuine nice people who really know what is going on, who can see beyond the "obvious" bullshit that is played in front of them.

[adbasque]

Which bit of this needs burning mate?-

"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor"- Jesus of Nazareth (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

We should get rid of all good things, and play right to the hand of the devil, otherwise we're dumb. Didn't you know that?

Yes they are very aware mate, they are fighting tyranny aren't we all lucky, to have them? lol

[waymarker]

...go and start a thread about religion and see how quickly they'll jump at you from all sides..

Depends which religion you're talking about mate, there are some real iffy ones out there, for example Hinduisms vile caste system preaches that all people are not created equal and that some must stay in the gutter, even the "great" Gandhi let it go on-
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1/

(Excerpt) - "Discrimination against India's lowest Hindu castes is technically illegal. But try telling that to the 160 million Untouchables, who face violent reprisals if they forget their place"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/caste2.gif

What a difference to glorious Christianity, which loves beggars -
"[God] raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:" (1 Sam 2:8 KJV)

[waymarker]

And then of course there's Islam-

[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"


[Koran 5.38] "And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise"

[Koran 4.34] "Men are the maintainers of women...and as to those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them..and beat them; surely Allah is High, Great"

[Koran 5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other...surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

[son_of_parrot]

Depends which religion you're talking about mate, there are some real iffy ones out there, for example Hinduisms vile caste system preaches that all people are not created equal and that some must stay in the gutter, even the "great" Gandhi let it go on-
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1/

(Excerpt) - "Discrimination against India's lowest Hindu castes is technically illegal. But try telling that to the 160 million Untouchables, who face violent reprisals if they forget their place"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/caste2.gif

What a difference to glorious Christianity, which loves beggars -
"[God] raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory:" (1 Sam 2:8 KJV)

And then of course there's Islam-

[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"


[Koran 5.38] "And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise"

[Koran 4.34] "Men are the maintainers of women...and as to those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them..and beat them; surely Allah is High, Great"

[Koran 5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other...surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

This Is what makes me laugh about DIF.

The very same posters who have a go at Christianity & Jesus in threads like these are those who shout "racist" (or ignore the threads) whenever the negative side of Islam or Allah is questioned in a similar vain.

Calling someone who criticises Christianity a "racist" is folly yet on DIF its regarded as normal to call posters "racist" whenever Islam or A.N Other religion gets the same treatment but Christianity seems a valid target.

Its quite similar to how racist attacks against white people is regarded on here by the majority to those against non whites.

The agenda is quite clear to see and the hypocrisy stinks the place out.

[chrysalis55]

No problem, it's the truth :)

I love Mandy's posts too. She speaks her truth without putting others down, which is very refreshing, especially on here.

[chrysalis55]

The one thing I noticed here, is "some" people enjoy the bashing of others as if they are the perfection itself, telling others how to live their lives, what they should or should not believe, and if you happen to believe anything different than them, you're an idiot or dumb, while the truth is they are the ones who are dumb.

Beating the Elite's drum while thinking they are free thinkers "WOW" because they reject religion, if they tried to make a little effort to look beyond the elite's bs, they can see that the Elite can't stand religion, it's been trying to destroy it since day one.


Now, I want to know what is wrong with this concept?

There is a Church or a Mosque, where people meet up regularly to help one another, live in a community.

The preacher visits anyone who doesn't turn up to church to see if everything is ok with that person "Family" what is wrong with this?

People meet up in a church and suddenly they realise that someone's house was burned down hit by lightening, so it needs to be rebuilt and very quickly, the focal point is the Church it's where everything happens people meet up and live as big family.

Destroy the church, demonise the church, break up the community, install huge supermarkets, malls, big shops, build a couple factories, people from outside that community will start flocking to the small town that inevitably and quickly becomes a big town, before you know it, nobody knows anybody anymore, everyone is a stranger.

For decades people lived a happy life in small communities never any "major" problems.

Now we have smart asses who are aware and wide awake while carrying the PTB's torch to the finishing line. (The eyes wide open, the brain gone to sleep)

If in doubt think why is the PTB attacking religion in all its forms, if it was "The control" as many claim, why are they not leaving it?

I am amazed with the so called super intelligent in our society, with people like these who needs the PTB or an enemy?

And it is not true, they are the ones attacking anyone's belief and then they turn around and say to you, you are imposing your faith, religion belief on us, a total BULLSHIT.

Check here, go and start a thread about religion and see how quickly they'll jump at you from all sides.

It is called bullying, if you don't stand up to them, unless you become like them they won't leave you in peace and yet they are the FIRST to complain, about an imposition.

To be honest every time you ask to show you and define this "control" they change the subject and jump at something else, and later in the topic they come back with the same broken record, the reason for that?

Is because they have no evidence, to back their claims, they repeat what they hear and they are nothing but repeaters.

And don't be fooled by their "We are one" bullshit the we are one unless you are like them, otherwise you will never be accepted.

With conditions, I know there are a lot of agents of all kinds people with real real agendas.

Ask them, let's unite, you are a Christian, I am a Muslim, you're an Atheist, you're a Hindu a Jew etc.. see if they would.

They do have agendas and pretend to love everyone bullshit again.

They are not interested in unity, or standing up to the Elite, because they work for the Elite, it is called infiltrating.

Anyway I am sure we have good genuine nice people who really know what is going on, who can see beyond the "obvious" bullshit that is played in front of them.

I have wondered why there is a "religion" section to post on in the first place. Maybe it should be called "anti-religion"?

[adbasque]

And then of course there's Islam-

[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"


[Koran 5.38] "And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise"

[Koran 4.34] "Men are the maintainers of women...and as to those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them..and beat them; surely Allah is High, Great"

[Koran 5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other...surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

Well sorry then I thought for a minute you were slightly different but you're obviously not.

I am talking about people creating the difference between us, maybe I am an idiot trying to unite, I have one thing to say to all, I really hope we all get fucked up. and we are heading that way.

Keep dividing
What do you know about chopping hands what is it do you know??
You want a fucking society like this one they come to your fucking house stab you to death and they get a slap on wrist so Islam is harsh, right?

Christianity is the same look at the OT, Islam doesn't change we do not change God's law we do not know better than he does.

So don't come here and tell me you want unity you don't, you're no different than the one who said "Burn it" earlier in the post, I didn't want to get into the differences between religion, I thought we can get along but I was wrong and I am wrong and fuck everything from now on.

No need in being civil with you people.

Enough said

[adbasque]

I have wondered why there is a "religion" section to post on in the first place. Maybe it should be called "anti-religion"?

Yes it should be called "ANTI-GOD-RELIGION!" but it's like a trap, you come there in order to discuss religion, instead you get insulted.

[adbasque]

I love Mandy's posts too. She speaks her truth without putting others down, which is very refreshing, especially on here.

Yes there are few people who do know what respect means, and it's a such pleasure to debate with them.

[adbasque]

And then of course there's Islam-

[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"

Do you know who the Unbelievers are?



[Koran 5.38] "And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise"


Do you know under how many conditions and what circumstances this need to be applied?



[Koran 4.34] "Men are the maintainers of women...and as to those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them..and beat them; surely Allah is High, Great"

Again, do you know the true meaning of this or are you just copy pasting from some website?


[Koran 5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other...surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

This proves his point doesn't he? No matter what, you always turn against Muslims, ;) it proves he is right? According to people like you.

And finally these people you need to be aware of them, yes They call themselves JEWS and Christians but they are NOT, they are nothing, as we can see they do things in the name of the Jews and the Christians.

You need to try and understand it is not a news paper that you buy and read it and off you go.

Anyway believe what you want I don't really give a damn.

[chrysalis55]

Yes there are few people who do know what respect means, and it's a such pleasure to debate with them.

Agreed! I have to keep reminding myself to not take things personally. Some days are easier than others. :(

[adbasque]

Agreed! I have to keep reminding myself to not take things personally. Some days are easier than others. :(

The funny thing is, they all come to DI forums pretending they understand the game played against all of us, but they can't help it but attack your belief and your way of life, this is no different than tyranny, what are they trying to do?

We all drop religion and follow them if this is not tyranny I don't know what is, and yet for instance if someone claims to be a homosexual they will defend him/her he has the right to be what he wants, but when it comes to faith unless you become one of them, you follow their belief, you're the enemy.

The exact same thing Gw Bush said, you're either with us or with the terrorist no middle grounds.

And then you get some "Christian nuts" who don't want nothing but to bash others too.

[vooei]

An all knowing, all merciful being would not make a law which insists on amputations as punishments for theft. Such a contradictory character cannot exist.

Such punishments are clearly on par with a primitive mind's primal perception of justice.

[adbasque]

Only to people who have a very limited mind and can only see as far as their nose and any excuse to bash God because of their agenda :)

Simply.. Yes like the capital punishments in the US, Uk right until the mid 60s
they don't just chop hands there are several conditions and in 700 years of ruling only two cases of hands chopping occurred so don't you lecture us about what is wrong and what is wright, you're the first to whinge when someone breaks into your house steals everything you've ever worked for, and anything that is priceless or of a sentimental value, right?

You're all a bunch of hypocrites so long as it happens to someone else I don't give a shit attitude you have preaching nice gentle people that you are, bullshit again;)
Yes I can give a list of people who were victims who speaks for them?? YOU? with your big morals??

Like Mr Martin 22 times he'd been burgled, who speaks for him??

Stealing is not primitive is it??
You are a bunch of hypocrites big time...
Go and give your fucking lectures elsewhere, enough of your bullshit we've heard enough of it.

[adbasque]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peSI66W1KaI&feature=player_embedded#!

[vooei]

Only to people who have a very limited mind and can only see as far as their nose and any excuse to bash God because of their agenda :)

My mind is obviously not limited, as it doesn't revolve around any man made book pretending to be 'god' or the dogma that goes with it

Simply.. Yes like the capital punishments in the US, Uk right until the mid 60s
they don't just chop hands there are several conditions and in 700 years of ruling only two cases of hands chopping occurred so don't you lecture us about what is wrong and what is wright

You sound eeirily familiar to Andy Choudary, have you been sharing statistics ? he normally brings that hand chopping one up everytime i see him making a berk of himself on youtube

, you're the first to whinge when someone breaks into your house steals everything you've ever worked for, and anything that is priceless or of a sentimental value, right?You're all a bunch of hypocrites so long as it happens to someone else I don't give a shit attitude you have preaching nice gentle people that you are, bullshit again;)

Ive never been burgled ?

Yes I can give a list of people who were victims who speaks for them?? YOU? with your big morals??

Like Mr Martin 22 times he'd been burgled, who speaks for him??

Stealing is not primitive is it??
Theft is an umberella word, theres different types of theft, i certainly wouldnt want somebodys hands being chopped off if they stole a loaf of bread because they were homeless and starving

You are a bunch of hypocrites big time...
Go and give your fucking lectures elsewhere, enough of your bullshit we've heard enough of it.

You need to chill out mate, seriously :)

[hurt4ever1]

I have wondered why there is a "religion" section to post on in the first place. Maybe it should be called "anti-religion"?

Chyrsalis, David Icke speaks out specifically against Christian program. I do not know how it is in Canada but in the USA, it was forced upon us for a long time and Christianity was not a choice for many of us, it was programmed into us from little up and I am not referring to the type of Christianity that you have experienced, but the type that I have and many other people on here have experienced.

I have known people that have been damaged for life because of this. I know of one man that dedictated his whole life to Christianity with promises getting healed from an injury that took his eye out when he was a child by a faith healer. He gave all of his money to this man and followed him around from city to city waiting for his turn to get his healing. This man was the kindest man that anyone could ask for, but his healing never came. The faith healer promised him that he could grow a NEW eye if he just had "enough faith" and this poor man believed it.

There are many other people that have been damaged by fundamentalist Christians than what I could ever tell you. I know it is probably hurtful to you because you get caught in the cross fire but honestly, I do not see you and Mandy in the same boat as I see some of the others on here as I have talked to you privately, and I can see in Mandy's post of her beliefs.

But you have to admit, that some Christians do not believe the same thing that you do. I mean how can you account for the things that Waymarker has said and come to terms that he is following the same god as you are? Does that not cause some type of cognitive dissonance in you?

This is why I could never call myself a Christian and I will speak out against his type of beliefs and the beliefs of others like this every time. For instance....a certain person calls out Mandy on her beliefs as being wrong or not "Christian" enough in their opinion of what Christianity should be.
That is the type of 'Christianity' that was taught here in the USA and apparently in certain places in the UK. Their belief of damning people to hell in an afterlife is not even what their own book says but that is what they have been TAUGHT it says.

Unfortunately, we are all on different spiritual levels, but imagine if I came to you and said "If you do not believe the same thing as I do, you will burn in hell forever and if you do not belief the same way I do, you are a Satanist?"
How can people come into their own with threats like that all the time?

That fear based religion is what David Icke speaks out against. Unfortunately, many Christians on here still believe that and they cannot understand why we speak out against their beliefs.

[adbasque]

You need to chill out mate, seriously :)

I will chill out when I want to chill out, "ME" not you to tell me what I should or should not do, when I should or should not do it. :)

I am bullying the bullies back so, I will chill out when I feel like chilling out.

You don't want someone's hand chopped off because he is starving do you?
So how much did you research it before you made your baseless comment?

Do you know what the conditions for instance?
Why and how would they chop someone's hand? No of course not not a clue, you too quick to judge and pass sentences.

Now you're trying to tag me to this Choudry the idiot who works for the MI5, right?

Tagging me again now? Lol
Nice try mate, character assassination?
You know very well I posted this afternoon that he is scum he doesn't represent Muslims he only represent's himself and people who are brainwashed by MI5 meaning the ones who are bashing Islam the same way you do.
#
Yeah, did the bulb over your head just went Ding?http://forum.davidicke.com/images/icons/icon3.gif

Yes they use these peoploe to show that OH all Muslims are dangerous and people like you I mean highly intelligent people like you go to the market and do their shopping and buy everything that is available without checking where it came from.

So before you give advice to others you need to open your eyes and wake up that brain of yours so it can process what you're looking at and sieve through the information.

The truth is I am sick and fucking tired of people like you, all you do on a daily basis is attack others, so don't push too hard.

Maybe you want people who would apologize for what some idiots are doing and call themselves Muslims, I could not give a toss, most of these people don't know anything about Islam not anymore than you do.

So next time a piece of advice, when you don't know or don't understand something do a thorough research life isn't black and white.

And as I said before, I do not wish to continue any form of debate with you, meaning stop insulting people and spreading lies, I didn't insult your belief or you, so don't try me.

End of discussion:

[chrysalis55]

Chyrsalis, David Icke speaks out specifically against Christian program. I do not know how it is in Canada but in the USA, it was forced upon us for a long time and Christianity was not a choice for many of us, it was programmed into us from little up and I am not referring to the type of Christianity that you have experienced, but the type that I have and many other people on here have experienced.

I have known people that have been damaged for life because of this. I know of one man that dedictated his whole life to Christianity with promises getting healed from an injury that took his eye out when he was a child by a faith healer. He gave all of his money to this man and followed him around from city to city waiting for his turn to get his healing. This man was the kindest man that anyone could ask for, but his healing never came. The faith healer promised him that he could grow a NEW eye if he just had "enough faith" and this poor man believed it.

There are many other people that have been damaged by fundamentalist Christians than what I could ever tell you. I know it is probably hurtful to you because you get caught in the cross fire but honestly, I do not see you and Mandy in the same boat as I see some of the others on here as I have talked to you privately, and I can see in Mandy's post of her beliefs.

But you have to admit, that some Christians do not believe the same thing that you do. I mean how can you account for the things that Waymarker has said and come to terms that he is following the same god as you are? Does that not cause some type of cognitive dissonance in you?

This is why I could never call myself a Christian and I will speak out against his type of beliefs and the beliefs of others like this every time. For instance....a certain person calls out Mandy on her beliefs as being wrong or not "Christian" enough in their opinion of what Christianity should be.
That is the type of 'Christianity' that was taught here in the USA and apparently in certain places in the UK. Their belief of damning people to hell in an afterlife is not even what their own book says but that is what they have been TAUGHT it says.

Unfortunately, we are all on different spiritual levels, but imagine if I came to you and said "If you do not believe the same thing as I do, you will burn in hell forever and if you do not belief the same way I do, you are a Satanist?"
How can people come into their own with threats like that all the time?

That fear based religion is what David Icke speaks out against. Unfortunately, many Christians on here still believe that and they cannot understand why we speak out against their beliefs.

I totally get you and I understand why a lot of people are down on Christianity. I guess I was very naive when I joined this forum. Enlightenment does not equal acceptance, in some instances anyway. I hate to see the threats some people make to others just because they think differently. It's sad, indeed. We are all on our own journey, trying to find our way. And no, I am not a fundamentalist or matrix or whatever those condemning fire and brimstone Christians are. I wasn't even really exposed to that type of Christianity, (except once when I went to a certain church with a friend) and they scared me half to death! I don't think like WM (thank God!). Cognative dissonance? You called that one right my friend. He is on ignore! I wish I could undo what's been done to a lot of people in the name of (fear-based) Christianity. I realize I am on a DI forum and sometimes I have to just suck it up, or leave.
There are some awesome people on this forum, you included. You and I may have a different belief system, but I know what kind of heart you have. And don't worry about me.... my skin is getting thicker.;)

[jimj_wpg]

i have written jokes about the concept that if 'god' wrote the ten commandments and they were on stones, could you imagine how big the arc would have to be if he wrote the torah (first five books of bible)?


but remember, the idiots claim a gabriel angel (a spirit) assisted in the writting of the bible but its a different gabby one than the one muhammed was supposedly talking to


it is funny how morons can claim that god spoke to all them people but to this day, no one is talking to god about correcting the errors

Do the tablets of the Ten Commandments still exist? I know there are lots and lots of drawings of them. But the real, original "document"?

2012 should be the year it is found and photographed.

I believe they were chizzeled by space aliens (Annunaki or Yahweh from Orion).

[hurt4ever1]

I totally get you and I understand why a lot of people are down on Christianity. I guess I was very naive when I joined this forum. Enlightenment does not equal acceptance, in some instances anyway. I hate to see the threats some people make to others just because they think differently. It's sad, indeed. We are all on our own journey, trying to find our way. And no, I am not a fundamentalist or matrix or whatever those condemning fire and brimstone Christians are. I wasn't even really exposed to that type of Christianity, (except once when I went to a certain church with a friend) and they scared me half to death! I don't think like WM (thank God!). Cognative dissonance? You called that one right my friend. He is on ignore! I wish I could undo what's been done to a lot of people in the name of (fear-based) Christianity. I realize I am on a DI forum and sometimes I have to just suck it up, or leave.
There are some awesome people on this forum, you included. You and I may have a different belief system, but I know what kind of heart you have. And don't worry about me.... my skin is getting thicker.;)

I have my stalker to thank for this thick skin. If you would have seen the things he said to me and teched (naked11), it would have made your stomach turn and he did this all in the name of defending 'his' form of Christianity. Maybe that was my baptism by fire! lol I TRY to actually read every post but as soon as my BS detector goes off and I recognize some of the fundy beliefs, my blood boils and I start reacting instead of responding. But then, I see posts by Elirien, Ohme, Seanx, Mandy and yours, then it reminds me that I need to respond. I know that is something I need to come to terms with and I will eventually. As you know, sometimes we have to go all the way back to the beginning and fix what we faced as little girls in order to be mature women and that is what I have finally found peace enough to do.

[hurt4ever1]

Do the tablets of the Ten Commandments still exist? I know there are lots and lots of drawings of them. But the real, original "document"?

I believe they were chizzeled by space aliens (Annunaki or Yahweh from Orion).

Osirus was from Orion also. ;)

[10thlight]

Because most christians are stooges.
You know jesus own disciples had weapons.
One of the deciples cut the guys ear off when they took jesus in the garden of yosemite.

Why would they carry swords?

[adbasque]

Chyrsalis, David Icke speaks out specifically against Christian program. I do not know how it is in Canada but in the USA, it was forced upon us for a long time and Christianity was not a choice for many of us, it was programmed into us from little up and I am not referring to the type of Christianity that you have experienced, but the type that I have and many other people on here have experienced.


The truth is, like all religions try and follow me here, they deliberately imposed certain aspects of it on people, why? It's not the good aspects of the religion in many cases you will find that it had nothing whatsoever to do with that religion.

Why? To make people reject it by themselves, for instance, remember problem, reaction, solution, they are offering atheism as the solution, re-packaging it as "Free thinker" pumping up your little ego into "Big ME"

Their aim right from the very beginning is the destruction of the Church and all other religions, introduce atheism and then atheism will be destroyed too and Satanism will be accepted as the religion of the world.

They hate the three Abrahimic religions and they want to get rid of them as soon as possible, one has to ask oneself why?
Well the answer is obvious because they do know that those religions first are divine religions, second they want no religion except theirs, if you think it's a myth, you wait and see and look around you what is being done, in such a sneaky way.

People were arrested in south California a group of people because they were reading the Bible? Is this normal?:rolleyes:


I have known people that have been damaged for life because of this. I know of one man that dedictated his whole life to Christianity with promises getting healed from an injury that took his eye out when he was a child by a faith healer. He gave all of his money to this man and followed him around from city to city waiting for his turn to get his healing. This man was the kindest man that anyone could ask for, but his healing never came. The faith healer promised him that he could grow a NEW eye if he just had "enough faith" and this poor man believed it.

True, and that was the whole idea, to make people detest and despise religion or the mention of God, the whole idea of Lucifer / Satan is do as you wish, No consequences >> destruction of society.




There are many other people that have been damaged by fundamentalist Christians than what I could ever tell you. I know it is probably hurtful to you because you get caught in the cross fire but honestly, I do not see you and Mandy in the same boat as I see some of the others on here as I have talked to you privately, and I can see in Mandy's post of her beliefs.
The term fundamentalist is a word created to stop anyone looking into the fundamental aspect of the religion, because the truth is found there.
Extremism yes, can be used meaning going beyond the true teachings of that religion.
Taking things to the extreme end.
Terms like, Islamist for instance there's no such thing, just like the word Al-Qaeda, it was a pure invention of the ptb.


But you have to admit, that some Christians do not believe the same thing that you do. I mean how can you account for the things that Waymarker has said and come to terms that he is following the same god as you are? Does that not cause some type of cognitive dissonance in you?


The way I always say, if someone is trying to screw someone's religion, that doesn't mean it's my religion that is in question, it's like framing an innocent man of a crime.

Religion is not the problem, the problem is with those who are trying relentlessly to frame it, and pull false flags, and use it for all sorts of evil things so people later will say hey hold on a minute 2+2 = 4, it's the religion why everything is gone belly up.

That is for simple minded people, lazy people who can't be arsed to search the origin of all evil, and how it works behind the scenes etc..
But they are the first one to complain and point a finger and claim to have full knowledge of what is going on.


This is why I could never call myself a Christian and I will speak out against his type of beliefs and the beliefs of others like this every time. For instance....a certain person calls out Mandy on her beliefs as being wrong or not "Christian" enough in their opinion of what Christianity should be.
That is the type of 'Christianity' that was taught here in the USA and apparently in certain places in the UK. Their belief of damning people to hell in an afterlife is not even what their own book says but that is what they have been TAUGHT it says.

Some people yes will end up in hell, you know why? Because they are evil, yes because they serve the devil, what do you think then, they got away with murder?
No consequences? You're wrong mate, it's not everybody who's damned to hell fire, do you think people like David bastard Rockefeller is a good man he doesn't deserve to rot in hell?



Unfortunately, we are all on different spiritual levels, but imagine if I came to you and said "If you do not believe the same thing as I do, you will burn in hell forever and if you do not belief the same way I do, you are a Satanist?"
How can people come into their own with threats like that all the time?

That fear based religion is what David Icke speaks out against. Unfortunately, many Christians on here still believe that and they cannot understand why we speak out against their beliefs.


If I get this question, I would research why did this person said this to me, maybe there's something out there to which I am totally ignorant, or are you just going to dismiss it as nonsense because you think it's rubbish, wouldn't be safe to find out first?

Assumption is the biggest mistake human make, and it is very wrong and it can have serious consequences.
As for Satanist, no, not everyone who's Atheist is a Satanist.
Why don't you try and unite despite these little differences?
We know who the satanists are, and in some cases they are proud of what they are which is really funny, they want people who worship G-D to feel embarrassed about it, but for them they brag about it, isn't it a little bit the world upside down, before you know it, they'll tell you Satanism is the truth and light and bullshit :D

[hurt4ever1]

The truth is, like all religions try and follow me here, they deliberately imposed certain aspects of it on people, why? It's not the good aspects of the religion in many cases you will find that it had nothing whatsoever to do with that religion.

Why? To make people reject it by themselves, for instance, remember problem, reaction, solution, they are offering atheism as the solution, re-packaging it as "Free thinker" pumping up your little ego into "Big ME"

Their aim right from the very beginning is the destruction of the Church and all other religions, introduce atheism and then atheism will be destroyed too and Satanism will be accepted as the religion of the world.

They hate the three Abrahimic religions and they want to get rid of them as soon as possible, one has to ask oneself why?
Well the answer is obvious because they do know that those religions first are divine religions, second they want no religion except theirs, if you think it's a myth, you wait and see and look around you what is being done, in such a sneaky way.

People were arrested in south California a group of people because they were reading the Bible? Is this normal?:rolleyes:



True, and that was the whole idea, to make people detest and despise religion or the mention of God, the whole idea of Lucifer / Satan is do as you wish, No consequences >> destruction of society.




The term fundamentalist is a word created to stop anyone looking into the fundamental aspect of the religion, because the truth is found there.
Extremism yes, can be used meaning going beyond the true teachings of that religion.
Taking things to the extreme end.
Terms like, Islamist for instance there's no such thing, just like the word Al-Qaeda, it was a pure invention of the ptb.



The way I always say, if someone is trying to screw someone's religion, that doesn't mean it's my religion that is in question, it's like framing an innocent man of a crime.

Religion is not the problem, the problem is with those who are trying relentlessly to frame it, and pull false flags, and use it for all sorts of evil things so people later will say hey hold on a minute 2+2 = 4, it's the religion why everything is gone belly up.

That is for simple minded people, lazy people who can't be arsed to search the origin of all evil, and how it works behind the scenes etc..
But they are the first one to complain and point a finger and claim to have full knowledge of what is going on.



Some people yes will end up in hell, you know why? Because they are evil, yes because they serve the devil, what do you think then, they got away with murder?
No consequences? You're wrong mate, it's not everybody who's damned to hell fire, do you think people like David bastard Rockefeller is a good man he doesn't deserve to rot in hell?





If I get this question, I would research why did this person said this to me, maybe there's something out there to which I am totally ignorant, or are you just going to dismiss it as nonsense because you think it's rubbish, wouldn't be safe to find out first?

Assumption is the biggest mistake human make, and it is very wrong and it can have serious consequences.
As for Satanist, no, not everyone who's Atheist is a Satanist.
Why don't you try and unite despite these little differences?
We know who the satanists are, and in some cases they are proud of what they are which is really funny, they want people who worship G-D to feel embarrassed about it, but for them they brag about it, isn't it a little bit the world upside down, before you know it, they'll tell you Satanism is the truth and light and bullshit :D


"maybe there's something out there to which I am totally ignorant, or are you just going to dismiss it as nonsense because you think it's rubbish, wouldn't be safe to find out first?"

You mean like researching the religion thoroughly and finding my own path?

Been there, done that. The ideology that people will burn in hell forever is not an original Christian belief, that is one that was added on by the Catholic Church. I have done my research for years and years and years and my research doesn't stop.

Have you ever done any work with eytmology? Have you done comparative religious studies? I have studied the OT, the NT and world religion at college level. I didn't settle for one book and base my life around it. No, atheists are not Satanists because in order to be a Satanist you would have to believe in the Christian god and Atheists DO NOT believe in the Christian god. Have you ever discussed any of this with an atheist or do you just discount them because they are atheists? Do you know that the vast majority of them actually know more about the bible than the alleged Christians do?

If I am considered an Atheist to anyone because I do not believe in their specific god, then so be it. I will not believe in a god that demands people to torture others, tell them that if they do not convert, they will be killed, nor allow rape, murder, and slavery. If that is their god, so be it, but it is not mine.

[adbasque]

You mean like researching the religion thoroughly and finding my own path?


Let me first put something straight here, that wasn't meant for you, it was a general idea of most people.
I am not here to judge you or anyone, it's actually quite the opposite I am being judged for what I believe.



Been there, done that. The ideology that people will burn in hell forever is not an original Christian belief, that is one that was added on by the Catholic Church. I have done my research for years and years and years and my research doesn't stop.

I have to disagree with you there it wasn't actually added by the Catholic church, but never mind the very original Bible speaks about the punishment, but before we get to that point, we need to establish the purpose of us being alive.

Another thing, it's not because you don't believe in something or a concept that it is necessarily false or doesn't exist.



Have you ever done any work with eytmology? Have you done comparative religious studies? I have studied the OT, the NT and world religion at college level. I didn't settle for one book and base my life around it. No, atheists are not Satanists because in order to be a Satanist you would have to believe in the Christian god and Atheists DO NOT believe in the Christian god.

Have you ever discussed any of this with an atheist or do you just discount them because they are atheists? Do you know that the vast majority of them actually know more about the bible than the alleged Christians do?

Etymology you mean? (I know it's a typos) of course I have done for at least 25 + years, I have done that in the middle East and in Europe (West)


If I am considered an Atheist to anyone because I do not believe in their specific god, then so be it. I will not believe in a god that demands people to torture others, tell them that if they do not convert, they will be killed, nor allow rape, murder, and slavery. If that is their god, so be it, but it is not mine.

Well that depends on what you believe in, an atheist doesn't believe in God an agnostic not sure.

What do you mean a God that demands to torture others?
You have to be more specific these aren't just as simple as day and light, life itself is complicated, humans are complicated so religion has to deal with all aspects of life, you can't just dismiss something because you don't like it.

I don't like death penalty but it exist it is a fact of life, people are being put on a death row, which I find rather sadistic in a way, they punish the person 120 times before they execute them.
I don't like it but it is a fact, so I will consider it and I have to deal with it.

The problem with many people they don't understand religion, and sometimes like children when they don't understand it or it scares them, "they seek refuge in deniability" instead of confronting it and deal with it and understand it.

Let me ask you this question: In your own words
What is in your opinion the whole purpose of life?

[hurt4ever1]

Let me first put something straight here, that wasn't meant for you, it was a general idea of most people.
I am not here to judge you or anyone, it's actually quite the opposite I am being judged for what I believe.



I have to disagree with you there it wasn't actually added by the Catholic church, but never mind the very original Bible speaks about the punishment, but before we get to that point, we need to establish the purpose of us being alive.

Another thing, it's not because you don't believe in something or a concept that it is necessarily false or doesn't exist.




Etymology you mean? (I know it's a typos) of course I have done for at least 25 + years, I have done that in the middle East and in Europe (West)



Well that depends on what you believe in, an atheist doesn't believe in God an agnostic not sure.

What do you mean a God that demands to torture others?
You have to be more specific these aren't just as simple as day and light, life itself is complicated, humans are complicated so religion has to deal with all aspects of life, you can't just dismiss something because you don't like it.

I don't like death penalty but it exist it is a fact of life, people are being put on a death row, which I find rather sadistic in a way, they punish the person 120 times before they execute them.
I don't like it but it is a fact, so I will consider it and I have to deal with it.

The problem with many people they don't understand religion, and sometimes like children when they don't understand it or it scares them, "they seek refuge in deniability" instead of confronting it and deal with it and understand it.

Let me ask you this question: In your own words
What is in your opinion the whole purpose of life?


Sorry, but we do not have the original bible.

The purpose of life to is to grow, to find out about yourself and love one another.

[quietgirl]

I totally get you and I understand why a lot of people are down on Christianity. I guess I was very naive when I joined this forum. Enlightenment does not equal acceptance, in some instances anyway. I hate to see the threats some people make to others just because they think differently. It's sad, indeed. We are all on our own journey, trying to find our way. And no, I am not a fundamentalist or matrix or whatever those condemning fire and brimstone Christians are. I wasn't even really exposed to that type of Christianity, (except once when I went to a certain church with a friend) and they scared me half to death! I don't think like WM (thank God!). Cognative dissonance? You called that one right my friend. He is on ignore! I wish I could undo what's been done to a lot of people in the name of (fear-based) Christianity. I realize I am on a DI forum and sometimes I have to just suck it up, or leave.
There are some awesome people on this forum, you included. You and I may have a different belief system, but I know what kind of heart you have. And don't worry about me.... my skin is getting thicker.;)

Me too, chrys! Given what some people have been exposed to in the name of "Christianity" I'm not surprised that they're not keen on it, to say the least! Like you, I wasn't brought up in a "hellfire and brimstone" sort of church (the Anglicans mostly simply aren't like that!). And also like you, my eyes have been opened by what I read here. I have also been hurt by some of the stuff that's been said (but like you I'm growing a thicker skin - necessary if I want to keep posting here! :)). People like "our friend who is now on ignore" make me want to weep because of their rather scary attitude where religion is concerned! Unfortunately it gives those who wish to bash religion all the ammo they need. (Sorry if that sounds a bit judgemental. Guess you can say I'm being "judgemental about their judgementalness" lol!)

There are many different beliefs here, many different sorts of people but basically most of them are just decent human beings doing the best they can with what they've got! And I love to discuss it with them! :)

Mandy

[adbasque]

Sorry, but we do not have the original bible.

The purpose of life to is to grow, to find out about yourself and love one another.

Ok that is partly true, especially to love one another to care for others like the weak, the orphans, the needy, the sick etc.. and to contribute to their lives in the same way others will contribute to your life.

Now comes the second question:

Why is life so short on a cosmic scale, and you do agree that we are primarily spiritual beings?

What I am doing here is to try and establish a platform for both of us and all of us to be able to understand one another in "Total" and absolute mutual respect.

Bear with me please thanks

[vooei]

I will chill out when I want to chill out, "ME" not you to tell me what I should or should not do, when I should or should not do it. :)

I am bullying the bullies back so, I will chill out when I feel like chilling out.

You don't want someone's hand chopped off because he is starving do you?
So how much did you research it before you made your baseless comment?

Do you know what the conditions for instance?
Why and how would they chop someone's hand? No of course not not a clue, you too quick to judge and pass sentences.

Now you're trying to tag me to this Choudry the idiot who works for the MI5, right?

Tagging me again now? Lol
Nice try mate, character assassination?
You know very well I posted this afternoon that he is scum he doesn't represent Muslims he only represent's himself and people who are brainwashed by MI5 meaning the ones who are bashing Islam the same way you do.
#
Yeah, did the bulb over your head just went Ding?http://forum.davidicke.com/images/icons/icon3.gif

Yes they use these peoploe to show that OH all Muslims are dangerous and people like you I mean highly intelligent people like you go to the market and do their shopping and buy everything that is available without checking where it came from.

So before you give advice to others you need to open your eyes and wake up that brain of yours so it can process what you're looking at and sieve through the information.

The truth is I am sick and fucking tired of people like you, all you do on a daily basis is attack others, so don't push too hard.

Maybe you want people who would apologize for what some idiots are doing and call themselves Muslims, I could not give a toss, most of these people don't know anything about Islam not anymore than you do.

So next time a piece of advice, when you don't know or don't understand something do a thorough research life isn't black and white.

And as I said before, I do not wish to continue any form of debate with you, meaning stop insulting people and spreading lies, I didn't insult your belief or you, so don't try me.

End of discussion:

Your quick to brand people as bullies whilst being the aggressor, you call me an atheist even though I've made it clear I am a panentheist and have openly declared on another topic my belief in the afterlife, my beliefs differ to yours based on my own conclussions, i have no personal grudge against you and wish you no harm regardless of what you believe. So in the future refrain from slander. Thanks. :)

[heartbeatsalute]

Nice :) Never heard about the theory about Jesus going to India. That he died seemed very illogical to me. As far as I know, if he was just mortal he would have been stoned to death more than once in his lifetime. But given what he might have been, getting his body broken shouldnt be a problem for one like him. Thanks for sharing :D

I never really saw much similarity between christianity and christ either. Some of the bible simple seems an interpretation of things, and it is known to all that it has been rewritten by some who thought themselves better knowing through the ages :rolleyes:

Still so many believe in the King James something bible to be "the bible"... it was written so long after what is written as Jesus' death, that I dont really believe that at all.

Interesting post kblood!

Read this:
http://ebookbrowse.com/7618737-jesus-lived-in-india-pdf-d208058434
Jesus In India



http://krishnatube.com/video/293/Jesus-in-India--BBC-Documentary

[heartbeatsalute]

chandra great post, you should post more bro.

jesus in india - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=jesus+in+india&meta=)

http://www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/1340/jesus_in_india.htm

http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/home.html

http://www.salagram.net/Jesus-Went-To-India.htm

http://www.jesus.com.au/html/page/jesus_in_india

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm

krishna, buddha, yashuah were all from the same source, the creator.

Great post ,and excellent links synergy 777!