nearly the best fight ever!

[seercirra]

lol ive been watching these insect battles for nearly an hour now. awesome.
Tarantula VS hornet/huge wasp thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFKQaU25puI&feature=related

i WISH that had ended up the other way around... i HATE hornets and wasps. when that spider jumped back to its feet i punched the air in enthusiasm. lol

scorpion VS hornet (good job mr scorpion)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGEtvVVkqz0&feature=related

preying mantis VS tarantula (great battle. check out the standoff stances) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U7n7PBui1Y&feature=related

tarantula VS scorpion (awesome) + big beetle VS centipede + huge tarantula vs scorpion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQo6iVa6WU4

preying mantis VS black widow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-3mUvJZ39k&feature=related


wofl spider VS black widow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vajVH5HGO1w&feature=related

anyway.. theres loads of decent ones. lookup japanese bug fights (jbf)

have fun

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEq1gSccItU&NR=1
worlds fastest spider.
wwwwwwooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[oddblock]

Biit cruel for my tastes I'm afraid :(

[krakhead]

have fun


:confused:

[size_of_light]

I'd watch these clips with fascination if they were filmed in nature, but when the Japanese are torturing two creatures by artificially forcing them to fight to the death for their own sadistic amusement, I'm not impressed.

[jojo]

dont want to watch thanks, it has a feel of cock fighting, badger bating (..... insert any animal against animal violence in here)

even though its nature, and some might say they are "only" insects, i really dont want to watch them kill each other.

[seercirra]

dont want to watch thanks, it has a feel of cock fighting, badger bating (..... insert any animal against animal violence in here)

even though its nature, and some might say they are "only" insects, i really dont want to watch them kill each other.

lol. not a popular vote here then. couldve guessed. im just fascinated because i like all fighting arts. its interesting to watch the mantis' stance and consider kung fu, etc.

....some of you think its morally questionable perhaps, but consider this:
if this were mammals, i'd be the first to wave a white flag.
but what do insects do?
have you ever seen an insect groom another insect? give it any TLC? have you ever seen an insect just being with another insect because it likes the company?
have you ever seen an insect "just decide to go for a stroll", and enjoy life?
have you ever seen an insect with hopes and dreams? except a mate and another meal (usually another insect, or its (ex)mate. lol)

have you ever seen an insect, NOT doing a job? ie an ant slacking off of work to go meet up with the kids or just take a damn break and take stock of things? what do spiders do in their spare time while they arent hunting? (if ever). do they mosey on down to the riverside late on a warm summers evening for a trip on the boats? and perhaps, if the waters warm enough take a little dip?

no, they have no instict to do anything other than survive. theyre autonomous beings. if they arent hungry, theyll just sit there until they are. they arent conscious beings, and neither consider nor appreciate life. they do not have feelings, hopes or dreams. and as such, shouldnt be treated as creatures which do. they do - nothing - except kill other insects to eat- to survive - they dont even know why they want to survive. theyve just be programmed as such, to maintain certain natural balances and equilibrium.


honestly. when somebody or thing is suffering, im usually the first to recognize it, and try and stop it. i have alot of empathy, and yes, parts of a couple of those videos i did feel sad for the creatures. however, i really believe that for all intents and purposes - as beautiful as they are, when you watch two insects fight, they may aswell be two extremely high tech and well programmed robots. if the spider dies, he doesnt think of his kids and wife when he's dieing, and wish for another outcome. he doesnt even think "shit". you know?

its hard, i know, but your just imprinting your own emotions onto these creatures. imagining how youd feel, with a human mind in that position, and then feeling sorry for them. well ofcourse you will. but you *are* looking at the subject from an unbalanced, illogical perspective. they are not human. humans arent built with fangs the size of their heads and claws the equivelent of half their own body weight. humans arent built to just "survive", and kill absolutely everything that they can eat, like insects are. most insects kill and fight eachother every single day. look at how millions of ants sweep through jungle floors and destroy everything in their wake. i dont see anything wrong with taking an ant, and a slug, and actually analyzing what happens in controlled environment. actually i find it fascinating as you may tell heh heh.

and you can say, philosophically, that theres nothing which seperates humanity from robots, potentially. and so how could i allow it with insects and not with humans. its because of thought, consciousness, desire, hope, emotions. which, i believe, all mammals have.

oh and this thread wouldve gone in "random forum for random shit" preferably. but it doesnt exist. so out of this forum and general, it had to be this ( i really thought we had some kind of general interest/entertainment forum when i came here to post this)

[size_of_light]

I don't think you can know that for sure, seer.

Just because you don't see them exhibiting the mammalian traits that you identify with consciousness or feeling doesn't mean that they don't possess them. They're motivated by the same basic drives as all other creatures - pursuit of pleasure/happiness and avoidance of pain - so I think it's reasonable to assume that they share other fundamental qualities with us too, even if we struggle to perceive them.

It wasn't too long ago that Christian philosophers were declaring that all animals were nothing more than automatons and that it was perfectly ethical to abuse them in any way man saw fit.

If you haven't already seen it, watch Microcosmos for an insight into the often stunning beauty and tenderness that the insect world routinely displays in it's natural environment.

A few awesome mantis kung fu moves in there as well. ;)

[seercirra]

I don't think you can know that for sure, seer.

Just because you don't see them exhibiting the mammalian traits that you identify with consciousness or feeling doesn't mean that they don't possess them. They're motivated by the same basic drives as all other creatures - pursuit of pleasure/happiness and avoidance of pain - so I think it's reasonable to assume that they share other fundamental qualities with us too, even if we struggle to perceive them.

It wasn't too long ago that Christian philosophers were declaring that all animals were nothing more than automatons and that it was perfectly ethical to abuse them in any way man saw fit.

If you haven't already seen it, watch Microcosmos for an insight into the often stunning beauty and tenderness that the insect world routinely displays in it's natural environment.

A few awesome mantis kung fu moves in there as well. ;)

lol. its an interesting subject really for discussing morality :p

"They're motivated by the same basic drives as all other creatures - pursuit of pleasure/happiness and avoidance of pain"

thats wholly innacurate though. the basic drive is to reproduce, in all organisms. the instinct to avoid pain, is simply to protect the first drive. (to reproduce). because, as we all know, you cannot reproduce if your balls have been chopped off. :)
i think there is certainly no basic drive for pleasure or happiness within insects.theres just no evidence for it at all.
you can visually see with mammals, when a lion in a pride dies, or an elephant, their family mourn the body. you can see that dogs dream. these creatures also appreciate life, they do things to enjoy life - just for the hell of it. dogs chase sticks, cats like catnip, etc. the list goes on. the point is that these characteristics do not aid these animals to reproduce, or accomplish anything. and so you can deduce that theyre conscious, and appreciate life. insects do nothing of the sort. ants may have a chemical stimuli that gives them a buzz all day for working. but its not consciousness. its not considered and they dont have a choice, its just an automation.

maybe im being ignorant in assuming that if i cant see any signs of care or consciousness, then they dont exist.
however, when numerous insects have a tendancy to eat their own offspring, or even mating partners. then you really cant assume much else. and in a world where an insect may kill 10x its own body weight in food each day, and eat it. you'd have to agree, if they did have any hint of consciousness about them, then they'd accept their death with no regrets at all. such is the world they live in.

oh yeah ill definately take a look at the vid. cheers. insects are fascinating. so alien.

[debs67gb]

these clips were out quite some time ago and not very appealing thanks but no thanks :) let nature do its own thing hey :)

[jojo]

awww, bless you seercirra...

there is far more to the infinate realities that we can only access through out 5 sences and our limited, ego driven emotions.

[size_of_light]

maybe im being ignorant in assuming that if i cant see any signs of care or consciousness, then they dont exist.
however, when numerous insects have a tendancy to eat their own offspring, or even mating partners. then you really cant assume much else.

Non-insects often eat their own offspring (cats, for example) and humans have been known to eat their sexual partners too.

Just pointing out that initial impressions and conclusions aren't always rock solid.

Cheers.