Does prayer interfere with a persons free will?

[ho1ogram]

We are vibrating masses of potential born from the infinite, right? Right.

All thought is energy right? Right.

Prayer is a form of thought projection then. Sooo... there is a hell of a lot of psychic interference being put out, often by well meaning people.

If I pray for someone I would be attempting to influence their life. I would be attempting to influence the choices that they make and asking the universe to manifest certain situations around them.

Praying would be an attempt to impose my will over theirs.

What do you reckon?

[Anders Lindman]

Quite right. Prayer can ONLY work when it is aligned with the movement of totality.

[ho1ogram]

What is the movement of totality? It sounds like a slogan.

I reckon all prayer is just our attempt (often an arrogant one) to influence another person's free will because we think they need it.

If someone believes in freedom wouldn't they be better off not praying? If they pray, they are asking for someone/something to interfere in another person's life. Part of being free is having the choice to make the 'wrong' decision in life. So instead of praying for them, why not let others make what we may judge to be the 'wrong' decision for themselves?

[Anders Lindman]

The movement of totality is what is happening now. The mistake we make is to believe that the future is a movement of totality separate from the now.

Prayer is a way of changing the direction of the future. Positive prayer is a steering of the future. Prayer directed to help someone or oneself is a confirmation of lack and could be a grave misinterpretation of how reality works.

[light worker]

This is an interesting question ho1ogram. Prayer is generally linked to hope in an outcome. It is therefore intrinsically linked to the desires of those that pray. Free will is, as you identify, also the choice to make the wrong decision. However free will is rarely the choice to experience the worst outcome. Prayer is therefore a means in which people hope for the outcome they desire.

There is nothing stopping somebody pray for an outcome that is prima facie a bad one for them. Now with regards to situations where someone is praying for something that will impact other people, or require others to act in a certain manner, I think you are on to something quite genuine. Say for example you pray that someone you love will in turn love you. What if they simply don't love you? The prayer is a request, as is sigel magic, positive thinking, and the methods raised in "The Secret". These requests have an effect on the universe.

So if that person suddenly loves you surely they were directed/controlled to love you? It seems so until you remember the nature of reality. Every action represents a possibility where all possibilities exist. So in that sense prayer is a means of mapping our life for us and us alone - it is the creation of a reality. In another reality that person still does not love you. Prayer is only one method, and a limited one.

Collective prayer is also of importance in understanding this. The Jansenist miracles in eighteenth-century France point to the fact that collective prayer is a means of combining our realities. This was the account of where hundreds of people became invulnerable to pain when they built themselves up into a mass state of panic and prayed for help. They were to be killed but literally became immune to everything thrown at them.

Individual prayer maps an individual world
Collective prayer maps a collective world

[bluestar]

PRAYER

Q. Are our prayers more food for the aeons, thereby creating greater oppression for this world, or are we praying to the Christ-Hierarchy?

A. This depends upon the purity of motive behind the prayer.

The prayer that reaches the Christ-Hierarchy is ever the selfless one, e.g., 'Lord, not my will but Thy Will be done, for the greatest good of all' or 'Lord, use me as an instrument in Thy divine service as You see fit'.

If a prayer is made with selfless devotion it will reach the divine astral plane. If a prayer is made in selfish appeal it will only go as far as the lower psychic sphere and so evoke a response from there. There are legions of ignorant incorporeals in the astral world who are ready to 'guide' ignorant human beings round and round the mount of Life - forever.

Remember always that active spiritual Service is God's favourite prayer and one to which He responds most readily and positively.

Q. I have been praying now for many years, but with few results if any. Can you define for me prayer?

A. True prayer is an invocation via ones own soul to Divinity, not for self but for a greater spiritual good.

PRAYING FOR OTHERS

Q. A friend of mine has been struggling with her fears and anger for many years now and is becoming a nervous wreck. I want to give her hope. How best to pray for her?

A. Praying for others without their request or permission is to interfere with their personal process and has karmic consequences. 'Hope' is a desire that has nothing to do with Love and Wisdom. Remember, words and thoughts have power, and when sent forth based on the personality's ideals and preferences but not on the guiding Spirit, serve only to strengthen the prison bars of the illusion around and within us. We would do well to have no desires for others because as we desire for them, an astral stream of energy is sent out from our solar-plexus chakra and will connect with that of the other person on the astral plane. Since your friend has so much dark emotion inside her, doing this would certainly be infectious for you and bring you into a karmic binding with her as well as the unholy forces and entities of the astral world with which she herself is entangled. Since your friend is presently not reversing her darkened condition by the application of right understanding, she will be drawing from an inexhaustible supply of anger, hatred, fear, etc. that exists like a great reservoir in this world. Esoterically-speaking, your friend is presently a veritable black hole of negative energies and forces; an effective agency for masters of evil. Hence there can be no good in your attempting to alleviate her anger and fear because she will only replace it again and again. However, to hold her in your heart and feel compassion for her may be the best you can do. If you insist on praying for others it would be best to do so without attachment to results. The greatest and generally most effective prayer is: "Lord, what will You have me do?"

Q. I am reminded of how many times in this life that the unwitting hand of evil, through unknowing agents, has led me to the right place. If my gratitude alone would bring the desire for my friend to live the truth, she would be on the path even now.

A. But she is on a path; the Left-Hand Path; the path of learning by experiencing what is not Real and Good. It is not for us to interfere with another's free-will choices. If there were no black squares or chess-pieces on the game-board, how could we play the game of life?

You should understand that some Servers of very high evolutionary attainment have volunteered to become occultly possessed on Earth in order to take on that particular human dysfunction, play out the chess-game in accord with the Law of Karma, and later (hopefully and if they remember in time) to transmute that level of evil from the collective planetary and human consciousness.

Through the agency of pain, evil is often our greatest teacher. Lucifer is indeed and ultimately the 'light-bringer'.

[ho1ogram]

Wow, they're some good responses.

I would like to add more but I don't have the words just yet.

Thank you.

ps- bluestar, I would love to hear some more. Who/what's your source?

[bluestar]

http://theswordbluestar.bravehost.com

[dude111]

Its too bad the OP mad people angry here,he has some good thoughts!

I reckon all prayer is just our attempt (often an arrogant one) to influence another person's free will because we think they need it.I havent ever thought of it that way!

This may be very well true!!

[greenzxy]

This is an interesting question ho1ogram. Prayer is generally linked to hope in an outcome. It is therefore intrinsically linked to the desires of those that pray. Free will is, as you identify, also the choice to make the wrong decision. However free will is rarely the choice to experience the worst outcome. Prayer is therefore a means in which people hope for the outcome they desire.

There is nothing stopping somebody pray for an outcome that is prima facie a bad one for them. Now with regards to situations where someone is praying for something that will impact other people, or require others to act in a certain manner, I think you are on to something quite genuine. Say for example you pray that someone you love will in turn love you. What if they simply don't love you? The prayer is a request, as is sigel magic, positive thinking, and the methods raised in "The Secret". These requests have an effect on the universe.

So if that person suddenly loves you surely they were directed/controlled to love you? It seems so until you remember the nature of reality. Every action represents a possibility where all possibilities exist. So in that sense prayer is a means of mapping our life for us and us alone - it is the creation of a reality. In another reality that person still does not love you. Prayer is only one method, and a limited one.

Collective prayer is also of importance in understanding this. The Jansenist miracles in eighteenth-century France point to the fact that collective prayer is a means of combining our realities. This was the account of where hundreds of people became invulnerable to pain when they built themselves up into a mass state of panic and prayed for help. They were to be killed but literally became immune to everything thrown at them.

Individual prayer maps an individual world
Collective prayer maps a collective world

I too strongly agree with this theory.
What happens to one person's reality may not happen in another.
Because if you think about it, there are an infinite amounts of possibilities happening right now, but since we are following the flow of the 4th dimension (time), in the illusion of the 3rd dimension (which creates linear time), the mind "blocks" infinity and can only focus on one linear time-line possibility at a time. So that would mean each individual influences their own future in their own alternate reality, since each and every mind focuses/attracts different future possibilities subconsciously and consciously.
So yea, it makes complete sense.

[ufochick]

There is only one real prayer. "It is my will that your will be done"

Worship is many times mixed up with prayer. Prayer is a request for there to be an action or change in current or future events. Since we live in linear time we have no idea what the outcome of those changes we are requesting will be. So all prayers are guesswork.

Prayers in my opinion are a form of magic. Magic is an attempt to change something in the current time or future (depending on how you look at time) by requesting change be made but our own thoughts help create that change by projecting an outcome.

It is my belief that praying for someone except in the most general way is detrimental to them. To attempt to change something in that person's future is an invasion into their life. I do believe general prayers like "may the people of earth become more peaceful and kind" are a good thing. But prayer is thought and thought is energy so be carefull with it.

[chrysoprase]

Nice:) ufochick!

I like to think of it that simply, also.

If you can believe that God is for the greater good of all, then it is easy to pray that his will is done.

If I want to pray for someone, I ask God to send extra love and attention for that person.

I never pray for anything that can interfere with a person's will. One time I was in a dress shop and I was listening to the sales clerks' conversation. One of them was talking about her "boyfriend" who happened to still be seeing his "old girlfriend". She said that she prayed every night that he would leave her. Stoopid.

I have learned to be careful with how I word things (even though I think God understands what is in your heart and what you are asking for).

One night I prayed for God to "get me out of there" about a job that I hated. I was working for this land planning company (the only female) and I was getting harassed on a daily basis. Within 2 days, I was fired.

When my boss fired me, my eyes got real wide. I knew my prayer had just been answered in an unexpected way (I was thinking more along the lines of finding me another job). My boss said "You seem to be taking this real well!" I just shrugged and said that I believed that everything happened for the best.:D

Ever since then, I try to make my prayers rather generic. I leave it up to God how something is accomplished. Sometimes I ask for something real basic like "comfort" and it always seems to work.

[uforia]

We are vibrating masses of potential born from the infinite, right? Right.

All thought is energy right? Right.

Prayer is a form of thought projection then. Sooo... there is a hell of a lot of psychic interference being put out, often by well meaning people.

If I pray for someone I would be attempting to influence their life. I would be attempting to influence the choices that they make and asking the universe to manifest certain situations around them.

Praying would be an attempt to impose my will over theirs.

What do you reckon?

-A prayer with pure and good intention has the same or similar positive effect as the plecepo pill(sugar pill) .

- A prayer provides uplifting emotional support the way a greeting does.

[uforia]

Today is a day of prayer in some parts of the world(correct me if I am wrong).
But any day and anytime is time of prayer.

Prayer is possitive energy, depends on the intention(how pure) and the consciousness(how high it is).

Please send your best prayers, I start by praying that everyone visits this thread respond to this request, and praying that peace ,love, healing, joy and happiness be completed to all.