GOD DOES EXIST, but not in the UNIVERSE

[fist fury]

All scientists in the world agree that everything in the universe is energy. Opinions vary on how this can be represented in both the micro and macro scale.

There is String theory that proposes all matter is created from moving bands of energy at the most basic level.

The Big Bang says our known universe came from a single point, where all the energy that has ever existed came from.

Even the ancients tell us that before the beginning of everything there was only a infinitely expansive primordial ocean. It was also said that everything came from a formless Chaos.

What all of these have in common is that for us (in the most general sense, our entire universe) to exist, our creator (pure infinite energy) must not.

You see, we only exist because the energy in our universe is finite. This is the primordial balance that supercedes "darkness/light", "good/evil", "life/death" because it is the source of everything.

Think of our creator as a roaring primordial ocean of infinte energy crossing an equally infinite void of no energy. And ourselves as a small drop of that ocean's water that was suspended into the void. For that instant we exist, but we are not with GOD. But the moment we 'return' we cease to exist.

[dedicate]

Interesting perspective.

Isn't it a wonder how two words that mean the same thing can be used to say, "These are two different things"? Sure, "Universe" can be used in the sense of my universe, parallel universes, or even just a collection of some gallexies. Then God can be used in the sense of my God, the gods, or a Being that lives somewhere outside the universe. But the two words always point the the same thing -- THE ONE. Both words basic meaning is,-- one and nothing else. (see the upanishads for this understanding of God; See the dictionary for this scientific definition of universe).

[dedicate]

I could say a lot more about this essay, but taring into every point would just be -- exhumatimous (not a word but should be). Let me just say that this essay is from an empircal view of reality (nuff said), with a little bit of extrapolation thrown in. The thing pulp sci-fi is built on.

Now if you wonder about God being equel to Universe and Universe being equel to God.. then just try it on for size. Next time you want to use the word Universe, use the word "God" instead. Next time you use the word "God", use "Universe" instead. Soon you will find, there is no difference in the two. If there is a difference, it is not real, thus not God nor Universe.

The Universe is endless, becomes God is endless.

God gives me everything, becomes the Universe gives me everything.

Universal law becomes God's law.


Even the title of the thread could be played with to read, "THE UNIVERSE DOES EXISTS but not in God".. and have the exact same essay following.

So, in a way, the poster is saying there is two universes. "God exists but outside the Universe.".. not likely, not by definition either. "How could there be an 'outside of the universe' if the universe is everything? Not likely,, not logical.



So, the next time you want to curse God,-- deny God or say He doesn't exist,,,, remember you are cursing and denying the Universe and, thus, what you are and all that you know. Most people can understand the idea of God presented like this.

But remember... not one but two.

[tjohn]

All scientists in the world agree that everything in the universe is energy.What is energy? There are more than one form of what we call energy and there are two ways of looking at energy, wave or particle but looking at energy as particles...

Electrons (and other atomic 'particles') have mass and are what we call things. Electrons when moving around in a circuit we call electrical energy. Photons of light on the other hand, have no mass and therefore are virtual particles - yet we also call photons energy. So what is the connection? Information. What is a photon if it doesn't have mass and is not a physical thing? It's information.

Information is only information when it has structure and logic, otherwise it's not information but random 'noise'. Light although not being physical has structure and is not random (including frequency). Atoms show structure and atomic particles when having the same charge repel each other and when the charge is opposite, they attract. But what is 'charge'? Again, it's information.

Photons on the other hand, are not atomic particles and they don't have any mass or any charge, yet science has found that photons like being with each other. Why? Again, information.

Everything in the physical universe comes from photon energy, from information they are or contain. So what am I getting at here? The information from which the universe is made implies a Mind and the Mind behind the information is what I would call God, or the God of all.

I am not religious but let's look at the Bible. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with (definite article) God, and the Logos was (no definite article) God”

So what does Logos mean? Putting religious arguments about the "Word” aside, Logos means the expression of the Mind - information.

The expression of the Mind is information and everything in our universe is also the expression of the Mind and in that sense the universe is God, as well as God being the Mind and originator of the universe, which is made of information.

The ancients didn't actually worship the sun (as such) but believed that the sun represents God, because the sun gives us warmth and light which brings life and they saw the sun as a messenger of God. Now we see Christianity as a metaphor, where they exchanged sun for son. Indeed the sun is, in a sense, a son of God and a messenger of God who 'dies' and rises again, to give us warmth and light – photons – tiny virtual particles (not things or real particles), that carry or are the information from which everything came into existence.

Anyone seen the light yet?

Do I worship the sun? No, but I do appreciate the light from which everything came and the original source.


Addendum

Forget the egotistical 'infinite consciousness' that some claim to have, it isn't true but we can be more in touch with the infinite. We humans (obviously) came from the universe and just as the universe has a Mind, we also have a mind - albeit very small when compared to what we could call the Cosmic Mind, or the God of all.

So, just as there are laws (information) that brought the universe together, gravity for instance being one, there are similar ‘laws’ in human consciousness. Are you with me yet? What I’m trying to say is that we have spiritual qualities such as love, compassion, empathy, fellow feeling and so on, which are reflections of the laws or the information, which brings the universe together into existence.

This is why we feel a connection with people and why we like being with (some) people and it’s why being alone for a long time isn’t good for us and it's why for most people, being alone can feel awful. It's unnatural for humans to be isolated and divided from others and like the universe which comes from information, we have a need to communicate and I’m trying to communicate this message to anyone who will listen.

John

[bensonz]

QUOTE=fist fury;777663]All scientists in the world agree that everything in the universe is energy. Opinions vary on how this can be represented in both the micro and macro scale.

There is String theory that proposes all matter is created from moving bands of energy at the most basic level.

I have a theory that we have all been knitted together by a group of cosmic grandmothers at a knitting club on alphacentauri. theories are therories, as meaningless pointless and factless and non existent as a fart in the wind.

Scientists state IE not even threorize, that the universe in 14 billion years old, not 13.9 or 12.3. How do they get away with making such rediclous statements? They say wman as been on the earth for a million years, and yet if that where true, based on factual evidence on human population growth data, there would 10 to the power of 27000 people on earth. There would not be enough space in the known universe, let alone on the earth, to hold everybody. Thats a FACT, not a theory by the way. I have hundreds more facts like this, if anyone is interested.
.
The Big Bang says our known universe came from a single point, where all the energy that has ever existed came from.

The big bang was God speaking the world into existence, it took six days though. A big bang is over in a second.


Even the ancients tell us that before the beginning of everything there was only a infinitely expansive primordial ocean. It was also said that everything came from a formless Chaos
Do you have faith in what these "ancients" say, or are you simply passing it on? . The bible speeks of creation being without form and void too. But that was day one.


What all of these have in common is that for us (in the most general sense, our entire universe) to exist, our creator (pure infinite energy) must not.

Thats like saying the factory that produced you car doesnt exist. ( assuming you have one)

You see, we only exist because the energy in our universe is finite. This is the primordial balance that supercedes "darkness/light", "good/evil", "life/death" because it is the source of everything.

I agree that the universe in finite, IE we are not evolving. This does not prove that our known universe is all there is or that prior to the univers coming onto being, nothing was there.

Think of our creator as a roaring primordial ocean of infinte energy crossing an equally infinite void of no energy. And ourselves as a small drop of that ocean's water that was suspended into the void. For that instant we exist, but we are not with GOD. But the moment we 'return' we cease to exist.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Did someone who returned and ceased to exist come back and tell you that when they returned they ceased to exist? Also what do you mean by "return"?
Return where?

Obvioulsy a person with no belief in a god, is without god. We dont need scientific evidense to prove something that doesnt exist. However all scientific evidence prooves a creator (correction, points to a creator) , regardless of whatever handle one puts on the creative entity.

[themime]

You see, we only exist because the energy in our universe is finite. This is the primordial balance that supercedes "darkness/light", "good/evil", "life/death" because it is the source of everything.





We only exist because of imbalance not because of balance. If the balance had been maintained the Universe would have ceased to exist rather quickly.

:)

[fist fury]

Enery is opposition. And that I believe is the basis of our reality. Our reality is skewed towards a finite-energy viewpoint.

This is why we put human characteristics to "god". What exactly does it mean when "god" speaks? When it rains does it mean "god" is urinating on you true believers?

For this reason all religions are disingenous and should all admit that they cant even know 1% of the truth beyond our universe.

There are indeed some basic universal facts within our reality, but these dont apply to "god" once again.

Whoever "god" is, it would not have opposition. Eveything would be one, but at the same time be an infinite number of 'unities'.

Our logic, doctrines, philosophies, and science fail outside the relm of finite-energy.

[bensonz]

We only exist because of imbalance not because of balance. If the balance had been maintained the Universe would have ceased to exist rather quickly.

:)

These are interesting statments, what are you basing it on?

[fromthatshow]

Yes perfect.
God is not with us in this universe. All this praying for worldy success and stuff is bullshit.
But this universe isn't real, so God is with us.
What a dillema.

I disagree with you that we cease to exist though. What ceases to exist is our sense of individuality, our ego, and the universe itself. But what was will always be, and we will still exist though not in this state.

[bensonz]

[QUOTE=fist fury;782244]Enery is opposition. And that I believe is the basis of our reality. Our reality is skewed towards a finite-energy viewpoint.

[QUOTE]This is why we put human characteristics to "god". What exactly does it mean when "god" speaks? When it rains does it mean "god" is urinating on you true believers?

I dont EXACTLY know, perhaps it means exactly what it says? No just you non believers

[themime]

These are interesting statments, what are you basing it on?

At the moment of the Big Bang matter was created in both positive and anti form. Without imbalance in the quantity of these forms they would have simply wiped each other out as they met.

Look up CP-violation.

:)

[bensonz]

At the moment of the Big Bang matter was created in both positive and anti form. Without imbalance in the quantity of these forms they would have simply wiped each other out as they met.

Look up CP-violation.

:)


Thanks TM